If you had honestly read through all of the Zhurrick forced “moments” from the TV show’s transcript, you’ll know he never apologized to Zhu Li. I already EASILY debunked the ridiculous idea of the metaphor being a so-called “apology”.
so on down to his ostrich-horse story being a metaphor for taking Zhu Li for granted
Yet there’s zero evidence for that argument. What have Bryke said about it in the Blu-ray commentary? It’s funny that even Varrick’s Wikia page here contradicts your argument.
but there's a difference between valid critique of what's canonically there and willful ignorance and this thread is the latter (badly) pretending to be the former.
It’s not my problem that you’re deliberately ignoring all of the facts I give you on Varrick. I quote and present abundant evidence for my arguments, yet you turn a blind eye to Varrick’s atrocious misconduct.
First of all, I have no "contempt" for you because ever since your first thread, you've spelled yourself out as over-dramatic/hysterical, pretentious,
Pretentious? False. I have never claimed nor behaved as if I, myself, am important or deserving of merit. I have never believed that of myself.
someone who doesn't use words properly ("romantic clinginess" and "submissive" coming to mind that you claimed were positive tropes until others called you out on it),
Ew. I hate the idea of a submissive woman.
willfully ignorant of what's canon to project your own feelings onto a character that felt the exact opposite of what you feel to the point of completely missing said character's point (Mako canonically wasn't hurting for love and instead grew from the love triangle to remain platonically there for his friends as in, "I got your back and I always will")
Why do you keep bringing Mako into this when he’s irrelevant to this discussion. This post was only about Varrick and Zhu Li and no one else. However, if you insist on bringing Mako into discussion, I’ll have to respond soon. Like everyone else, Mako is a normal person with a desire for romance. He most certainly does not want to be single for long. When he finds a new girlfriend, he most certainly will be forever happy with her.
All love triangles, squares, and polygons are bad writing because they fall under the category of the terrible harem and reverse harem genres. I think I have seen you elsewhere complaining about the love triangle in Legend of Korra. You haven’t seen worse. That’s nothing compared to some of the atrocious harems in anime. Need I mention the WORST harem anime in history? Three words: High School DxD. Don’t even get me started on how bad it is. All harems in anime are extremely terrible, but this one takes the cake. To say the least, it is at least a billion times worse than the love triangle/square/polygon in Legend of Korra.
and why you got called an incel for the exact same disturbing view of relationships and sense of entitlement.
I myself am certainly no incel. You’re lying. I myself have no desire to find nor attract women. I am single by choice and have no interest in romance for myself. However, I only wish for Mako to be blessed with a beautiful girlfriend who shares his personality traits. You have no proof to call me an incel.
And to call me "immature" is also laughable considering you took your proverbial ball and went home for months just because you didn't find the echo chamber you wanted
My initial intention of that post was to have friendly discussions with other Mako fans. Hating Varrick is perfectly justified. Considering how a lot of Korrasami and Zhurrick stans hate on Mako, I have every reason to defend Mako and criticize Varrick. I didn’t start the hate wars. The Mako haters started the hate wars long ago. An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth. They started it. I’m finishing it.
Ironbender is/was contemptable for being a trolling, buzz-killing, contrarian pain in the ass to everyone to the extent there was a whole thread about him and a warning.
Don’t you think it’s insulting to backbite against another? I don’t know who this “Ironbender” person is, but it’s insulting to hate on someone behind their back.
you're amusing for your long-winded attempts at looking like an intellectual, which is like that 12-year-old's brother who put on some your dad's old pair of glasses and ill-fitting business shirt like a lab coat then gave a "thesis" on why "Nightmare Moon is actually a baby-eating rapist".
Have you ever considered becoming a comedian? I think that would best suit you rather than your ridiculous nonsense about Varrick.
I'm literally making a big Kool-Aid smile at the "biased and canonically invalid Varrick arguments as it seems you’ve almost completely ignored all of the facts I presented on Varrick." part because it actually translates as "You can't call bullshit on my bullshit and you calling bullshit on my bullshit isn't worth arguing
Yet you haven’t debunked any of the arguments against Varrick. Other intellectuals have pointed out how horribly abusive and bad Varrick is against Zhu Li.
He genuinely loved Zhu Li
Varrick: “Honey Zhu Li, I love you.”
Oh, but wait. How could I forget? Varrick would never say something like that in the TV show.
like I already said to Sergio, was beating himself up over it from "Reunion" onwards and his involvement in Kuvira's weapon(s), which, again, shows canonical remorse/guilt for his actions.
He was only beating himself up over his involvement in Kuvira’s weapon based on the context of Bolin and Varrick’s discussion. He only regretted for involving himself in Kuvira’s weapon, but never abusing Zhu Li. There’s a big difference here.
Traits-wise, he's a self-made man, genius in technology (in multiple fields,)
With all that wealth in his possession, he never donates anything to charity. People are starving in the world, yet he selfishly keeps all the wealth to himself.
and in the quick-thinking sense whether it's his money-pooping Platypus-bear stunt or his ploy to get past the Earth Empire guards that only failed because they had wanted posters of him and even before the spirit vine project, did have standards in his actions even in Book 2 in that physically harming people is beneath him and did help the heroes despite no monetary benefit after he got locked up (ex. giving up his battleship) and was adamant about not making more spirit vine weapons because of how dangerous they are, gave credit to Asami for the hummingbird suits,
But you completely ignore the fact that he has done literally nothing good for Zhu Li in particular throughout the entire series except for that one time he saved her life in book 4, but he didn’t do it out of love, but out of need for her obedience and help so that he can keep abusing her.
plus "Turf Wars" shows him to be a more supportive husband to his wife.
A “more” supportive husband implies he somehow was “supportive” of Zhu Li in the past. Canonically, he was never supportive of Zhu Li throughout the TV show. Yes, he began being supportive of his wife in the comics, but never before. And what so that he’s now supportive in the comics (not the TV show)? Does that mean we should congratulate and celebrate him for finally treating her with somewhat respect after countless years of deliberately abusing her countless times off-screen and many times on-screen (which, canonically, he never once apologized for at all)? No. Varrick isn’t deserving of our respect or admiration. He has done nothing great to deserve it. In Varrick’s case, rarely doing a few good things does not counteract all of the countless bad things he’s done. He still needs to answer for his crimes and abuse of Zhu Li. He needs to apologize to her for abusing her countless times for many years.
I also say again, the fanbase doesn't love him as much as you keep saying it does as both this site and TVTropes, alone'll tell you.
Everywhere online I see the Mako haters worshiping Varrick and even saying/lying that Varrick did nothing wrong.
No, you're examples are not "canonically valid" as you've either exaggerated Zhu Li into being a slave in "Roots" right down to the claimed lack of agency (again, your incel is showing)
What incel nonsense are you even talking about? I hate submissive women like Zhu Li. Yes, hate. I hate the notion of a submissive woman. A long time ago, I used to confuse submission with loyalty, but I learned of the difference and now regret ever suggesting it.
saying Zhu Li was "forced"
Perhaps you’re right about this: saying that she was forced is an exaggeration, but Varrick is still deliberately abusive of her. She wasn’t forced, but she was deliberately ordered around countless times for many years by him. That is, in fact, a type of abuse.
List the times (no quotes, m'man) he expresses he remorse for Zhu Li you ask? Gladly/Finally! But before I do, you claiming you searched the whole show and found nothing means either you're a liar and/or you're so blind with irrational hatred/seeing only what you want to see that you voluntarily chose to ignore/deny it
I’m certainly not lying. I searched through the entire TV show and didn’t find anything on Varrick saying something as simple and easy as “Sorry” to Zhu Li. It never happened. I am certainly not blind by my justified hatred for him as I have presented abundant evidence for all of my arguments, which YOU voluntarily chose to ignore/deny.
so you're still not going to get your precious echo chamber from me, pal.
You may desire an echo chamber for your irrational hatred for Mako. My hatred for Varrick is justified.
Reunion
Varrick You know, when I fled Republic City with Zhu Li, she carried me twenty miles in one day. And that was after she sprained her ankle.
Bolin [Throws Varrick off his back.] Well, Zhu Li's not here, okay?
Varrick [Keeps lying on his back, waves his hand at Bolin.] That's fine, leave me here, let the worms gobble me up. I deserve it.
Bolin No way mister! You're not getting off that easily. You're responsible for that weapon Kuvira is trying to make. Which, may I remind you, could hurt a lot of people.
Varrick No, don't remind me! I know, I'm a horrible, horrible person!
I already know all of this. Varrick canonically only expresses remorse for his involvement in Kuvira’s weapon, but never did he once express remorse for deliberately abusing Zhu Li. Helping Kuvira wasn’t even his fault. Kuvira forced him to do it. Whereas abusing Zhu Li is completely Varrick’s fault, yet canonically shows ZERO remorse for his extreme abuse of her.
Let me ask you again: what kind of a man orders a woman to carry him? Only a selfish, unscrupulous, and shameless piece of trash of a man exactly like Varrick.
The Day of the Colossus (and I'm highlighting the "Mrs. Beaks" part before I elaborate on the context)
Varrick I know I can stop the mecha suits with an electromagnetic pulse, so it stands to reason that I can stop a giant mecha suit with a giant electromagnetic pulse. [Climbs up the tower and cuts some wires on a stand.] Zhu Li, I've been thinking.
Zhu Li You're always thinking, sir.
Varrick Yes. But lately, I've been thinking about you. I know we might not make it out of this mess and I feel like there are some things I should tell you.
Zhu Li [Anticipating.] There are?
Varrick I remember when I was a boy, I had an ostrich horse. Named her Mrs. Beaks. [Zhu Li's excitement dies out and she glares at Varrick.] I grew up on a farm. Did I ever tell you that, Zhu Li? This was before the circus people took me away. Anyway, I loved old Mrs. Beaks, but I took her for granted.
You don’t understand Varrick, do you? Varrick was seriously referring to his past here.
And...
Is Zhu Li Mrs. Beaks? No!
Did Varrick say something as simple and easy as “Sorry” to Zhu Li? No!
What does Varrick’s Wikia page say about this? Here: http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Iknik_Blackstone_Varrick#
Under History,
I quote: “Varrick was born to a poor seal-hunter.[5] Growing up on a farm, he once had a pet ostrich horse named Mrs. Beaks, whom he had loved but taken for granted. At some point, he was taken away by the circus.[17] As he grew up in the Southern Water Tribe, he managed to expand his business from a single canoe into a global enterprise, until he finally controlled the entire global shipping business.[18] A consummate deal maker, he is always looking for opportunities to expand his business empire.[5]”
What do you have to say about this, huh? There is canonically no metaphor. Varrick was canonically referring to his past. It’s just a fact.
Your last option now needs to be listening to the Blu-ray commentary by Bryke. What have Bryke said about this in the Blu-ray commentary? If Bryke confirm your theory about this metaphor, then I’ll believe you. If or until then, you still have not presented any evidence for this metaphor you believe.
the analogy flew right over your head when this wasn't Varrick simply rambling about hand-shoes again, it was his own characteristically odd way of saying he'd been taking Zhu Li for granted in the same way. It's only because of Kuvira's troops showing up that the story's interrupted
Again, there is no analogy, no metaphor. Absence of evidence means it’s non-existent. In your case, you still have not presented any evidence for this argument. Varrick fully meant his past. Don’t you understand Varrick? He thought he was going to die, so he wanted to tell Zhu Li some things she didn’t know about him before. Anyone would do that if he/she thinks he/she is going to die very soon. Again, your only option is finding out if Bryke had confirmed your argument in the Blu-ray commentary of that episode. It’s perfectly fine to use the Blu-ray commentary as evidence for your argument since you have no other option.
I said you make Zhu Li out to be a helpless door mat and submissive character, not the actual canon where again, part of her Fake Defection is actually admitting how fed up with Varrick she is and why voluntarily followed him in the first place, (Per Enemy at the Gates: "I was blindly devoted to Varrick, and I looked past all the times he ridiculed me, or ordered me around, or made me clean his disgusting feet-- [Looking angry at the mention of the last instance.] --because I thought he possessed the most brilliant mind in the world.") and then for such a "submissive, helpless, door mat", she calls him out again in "Kuvira's Gambit" ("[Grabs Varrick by the shoulder and turns him around to face her.] No! I am not your assistant anymore. [Points at Varrick, who bends backward.] If you want me around, you need to start treating me like an equal!")
In those scenes, she most certainly isn’t submissive (finally). But you voluntarily chose to ignore all of the times she blindly obeys him, especially in books 2 and 3. Whenever he orders her around, she blindly obeys him without ever questioning him. Rewatch Zhurrick in books 2 and 3 and most of book 4. She never objects, never questions, and never defies him until the last episodes of book 4. That’s why she’s a badly written female character. You are right that she finally called him out, but after what? After (Who knows how) many years of not defending herself from Varrick’s abuse.
Did Varrick hold her at spearpoint to do what he said? No. Did he bribe, blackmail or otherwise coerce her into doing what he said? No. Why? Because she voluntarily did everything he said from helping him kidnap Raiko to escaping from jail to working in Zaofu to escaping from Kuvira and yes that includes his nasty-ass feet.
Probably off-screen, yes. He most likely does bribe her to work for him off-screen. Why else would she do it? She has no reason to obey him for free. In fact, she canonically gets paid to obey him. There’s zero evidence that she did anything voluntarily/for free. She needs money to live. She obeys him out of need for money. There’s no other rational explanation.
Varrick is still abusive. Why? He deliberately orders her around without any concern for her physical health (carrying him for 20 miles with a sprained angle) or hygiene (cleaning his disgusting feet) and many more painfully difficult tasks. A man should never ask (much less order) a woman to do anything like that for him. Otherwise, it’s just extremely horrible abuse. As a man myself, I can never imagine myself asking or telling a woman to do anything for me even if it’s an easy task. I understand that Zhu Li gets paid by Varrick in money. However, what Varrick demands/orders from her is most often extremely difficult for just an assistant and sometimes humanly close to impossible. An assistant does not have to perform difficult tasks that pose a threat to their mental or physical health or are just downright disgusting and humiliating. Need I remind you that she is a woman. A weak woman who is just a non-bender. What she does for Varrick, she extremely suffers from it. She patiently endures the abuse mainly because she needs the money.
just like with "poor lonely Mako"
Again, why keep bringing Mako into this discussion, which was initially supposed to be only about Varrick and Zhu Li?
If you keep hating on Mako, I’ll have to respond. In book 4’s finale and Turf Wars, yes, poor Mako is single and lonely when he deserves a beautiful girlfriend whose personality is identical to his. Nobody deserves to be single. Every man deserves a woman, and vice versa. Additionally, like Mako in book 4 and Turf Wars, I used to complain that Asami and Bolin didn’t get love interests in books 1 and 2, although it was back in 2012-2013. I always blamed Bryke, the writers. If I had my way, none of the characters would be single.
When does Zhu Li say "callouses and all"? Well besides further proof that you're lying and/or willfully ignorant about what canonically happened:
http://korra.avatarspirit.net/transcripts.php?num=413
Zhu Li: (softly) I do take Varrick, (both men look at the bride with a smile and camera cuts to a close up of a radiant Zhu Li) calluses and all.
I highlighted the “calluses and all” from Zhu Li’s speech.
Well besides the examples I stated about Varrick and Zhu Li's development that you've been repeatedly and willfully ignoring
The so-called “development” for their ridiculously forced and terrible relationship is completely non-existent in the TV show. Their relationship came out of nowhere: zero chemistry, zero development.
Varrick behaves that way now in the comics instead of earlier because Externally/Doylistically, the writers weren't sure if they'd get together or Opal breaking up with Bolin and then him hooking up with Zhu Li for whatever reason(s) and Internally/Watsonianally, because it's only when Varrick's working on the spirit vine energy which leads to his HeelFaceTurn, defection, Zhu Li having enough and everything after.
In the comics and ONLY in the comics, yes. It’s a little too late considering the fact they have known each other for many years and he has been deliberately abusing her countless times.
Same way Mako learned how not to be a selfish prick after screwing up the love triangle
That is an outrageous lie against Mako. The only selfish prick is Varrick in the show. I don’t quite understand you keep bringing Mako into this discussion when he’s completely irrelevant to Varrick and Zhu Li, but I think you’re just trying to provoke me. Mako is a good-hearted/well-intentioned gentleman who constantly wanted and tried his best to be the perfect boyfriend, especially for Korra. He does many good things out of love, unlike Varrick who only cares for himself and his own wealth. Mako never asks or tells a woman to do anything for him and never aggressively chases after or flirts with a woman. I wonder if you hate Mako’s quiet, passive, calm, gentle, and protective boyfriend personna, whereas I love him for it.
And again, for the second or third time, the love triangle is nothing compared to some of the atrocious harems in anime. You have not seen what I have seen. If you have, perhaps you would not be so harsh against Mako. Like High S**t DxD
he behaves as a more supportive husband and doesn't eat up screentime like he did in Book 4
Yet you are ignoring the fact that he was never supportive of Zhu Li in the TV show. And he also ate up way too much screentime in books 2 and 3, not just 4.
which might explain your views on women
Women should never submit themselves to men and never obey men, especially immoral scum like Varrick.
So overall, this is another signature Fanboy rant where reality is an ignorable nuisance, absolutism is so key that it'd make a Sith pause, Varrick is more evil incarnate than the actual evil incarnate, women don't have autonomy no matter what canon actually says, nobody except Fanboy and those who agree with him can re-watch episodes to challenge the echo chamber and there's no such thing as transcripts to prove what did or didn't happen 'cause fuck canon, let's only believe and agree with some melodramatic poster who went AWOL months ago because people wouldn't worship his Token Love Interest Idol like he does.
You’re a liar, but I should’ve known as anyone who defends a piece of trash like Varrick can’t be taken with sincerity or rationality. Varrick isn’t evil incarnate, but he canonically is abusive employer who deliberately and constantly abuses his female assistant Zhu Li, never apologizes to her, and never regrets it. Women like Zhu Li are terrible representations of strong, independent, and self-respecting women. There is no echo chamber here. I present facts with evidence from transcript of the TV show. You turn a blind eye to Varrick’s evil abuse. The only echo chamber here is from you with your ridiculous nonsense about Varrick.
I don’t worship Mako. I love him for his positive traits and constantly wish him eternal romantic happiness. What’s wrong with that? Nothing.
easily refuting such weak attempts at logic
Weren’t you the one spouting nonsense about a meaningless and ridiculous metaphor somehow being an “apology”? The definition of an apology always includes the word “Sorry”. And weren’t you also deliberately denying all of the abundant evidence for Varrick’s extreme abuse of Zhu Li? Yes, unfortunately you were. Why won’t you just admit that Varrick is a horribly abusive employer? I’m curious: do you actually like Varrick? I hope not. It’s bad enough that Neo and Dragon like Varrick and deliberately turn a blind eye to his atrocious abuse of Zhu Li.