FANDOM


  • Ok. Some things were really bothering me about the recent Avatar's timeline.

    First, Avatar Kyoshi is said to have been born over 400 years before Aang arrives on Kyoshi Island. Let's say she lives to the ripe old age of aroudn 80-100 years (And NO, I don't buy that the timeline says Kyoshi lived 230 years) That would mean there was a 150 year gap between Avatars Kyoshi and Roku that is unexplained. Sure, some people in that show live an EXTREME amount of time (like Bumi and Pathik) but NO ONE lives 230 years.

    That being said, there's also the problem of the Statues of the Avatars in the secret room of the Southern Air Temple. When Aang is looking at Roku's stature, the one right before him in succession (which should be Kyoshi) is a male with a sword. (Of course, the real reason was that Kyoshi was written yet, and was introduced in the next episode, along with the rediculous notion of her being from 400 years ago)

    Any thoughts on this?

      Loading editor
    • Her age comes from nick.com

        Loading editor
    • And she was born 300 years before Aang not 400. So there's no time gap.

        Loading editor
    • Thebigofan wrote:
      And she was born 300 years before Aang not 400. So there's no time gap.

      Ok, so how does she live to be 230? There's no way! and What about the statue?

        Loading editor
    • Avatars have a higher life expectancy than non-avatars.

        Loading editor
    • The episode "The Southern Air Temple" was made before the concept of Avatar Kyoshi was thought up by the creators. Therefore, we are indeed left with a bit of a paradox when looking at the Air Temple statues. This wiki, for the most part, counts this paradox as a goof in the animation.

        Loading editor
    • That's what I figured, Sparks. It was an error that they couldn't ret-con, so they just hoped no one would notice.

        Loading editor
    • Thebigofan wrote:
      Avatars have a higher life expectancy than non-avatars.

      So how is it that Aang and Roku lived "average life spans and non-avatars like Bumi and Pathik lived to be over 100?

        Loading editor
    • Aang died a young age because the 100 years of stay in the avatar state took a toll on his body. As for Roku he died from inhaling poisonous gas, any one would die from that.

        Loading editor
    • Bryke confirmed that Kyoshi's nick.com age is "dogma", as seen in this interview. Mike DiMartino's exact words were:

      "And yes, the Kyoshi thing is true. We sat down and decided yes, she lived to be a really old lady."

      Just clearing things up.

        Loading editor
    • AvatarMAX wrote:
      Thebigofan wrote:
      Avatars have a higher life expectancy than non-avatars.
      So how is it that Aang and Roku lived "average life spans and non-avatars like Bumi and Pathik lived to be over 100?

      People like them are the exception, not the rule.

        Loading editor
    • the way I see it theres no way a temple could fit the statues of EVERY avatar. So the Air nomads simplified, only the Essential avatars (like roku) were at the southern Air temple.

        Loading editor
    • Well, there were like six floors of statues, let's say each floor has 50 statues, and each avatar lives on average 150 years, (Aang lived to be 166 and Kyoshi 230). That means 300 avatars*150 years is 45,000 years, which is 5 times as old as human civilization. I think the avatars can't go back much farther than that. And Kyoshi was prettey essential, she made an entire new island!

        Loading editor
    • The average is likely not 150 years. Aang and Kyoshi were odd ducklings; their skewed lifetime ranges do not represent the majority of Avatars. At the very maximum, I estimate an average lifespan could approach a century, but not go beyond that.

        Loading editor
    • We only know the lifespans of three avatars, Kyoshi, Aang, and Roku. Roku was 70, Aang was 166, and Kyoshi was 230. Roku could very well have another few decades in him. He seemed in prettey good shape for a 70-year old, and if Sozin wasn't such a selfish idiot, Roku could well have lived into his 100's. At any rate, even if I lower it to 100 years we still have a good 30,000 years of avatars. Three times as old as civilization. Still easily plausible.

        Loading editor
    • Suddenly makes Ozai's statement that the Avatar is holding back the advancement of civilization seem almost plausible.

        Loading editor
    • @Hiroakira Fengxian

      Well, it is kind of the Avatars job to keep mankind "in balance" with both the spirit world and nature. Allowing technological advancement would kind of be contradictory to that job. As seen in LOK, the industrial revolution, has all but rendered bending and spirituality obsolete.

      Also: where did Ozai directly say the Avatar was "holding mankind back?" or was it secondhand from the mouth of Azula, or someone else?

        Loading editor
    • @ Lokness monster

      The Lord of the Rings mythos spans three times as long as the ATLA and LOK mythos are said to have spanned, and the Star wars Mythos takes place , over the course of at least fifty millenia. Bryke are fans of both, so it appears they intended this.

        Loading editor
    • Didn't Roku once tell Jeong Jeong there were a thousand Avatars? Or was that not meant to be taken literally?

        Loading editor
    • That was likeley figurative.

        Loading editor
    • It may be that the lineage of the Avatar stretches back to caveman days in the Avatarverse, if your estimations are correct.

        Loading editor
    • Or even there could have been sky bison, badgermole and dragon avatars even before that.

        Loading editor
    • See this post. It's pretty interesting.

        Loading editor
    • This has been solved, I know, but it was confirmed that Avatar Kyoshi did live to be 230 years old.

        Loading editor
    • See the funny thing about the timeline is that, if Kyoshi was 230 years old making her the oldest Avatar known so far, and Koh saying that Kuruk was hunting him around 800 - 900 years ago..

      Meaning that Kuruk was OLDER than Kyoshi, but Kyoshi was the oldest Avatar known, hows this possible? Exactly, I think that writer should get fired..Just give Kuruk and Yanchen, 100 and something years of life, and add it to the things, lastly meaning that Unnamed fire Avatar, was not around a thousand years before Aang's awakening. It was about 600 - 700 years before..I think its funny though, and how some people complain that they left a major plot hole.

        Loading editor
    • SparksFromHades wrote:
      Didn't Roku once tell Jeong Jeong there were a thousand Avatars? Or was that not meant to be taken literally?

      Honestly, I think there was a thousand Avatars, so it makes Korra 1002nd?

        Loading editor
    • One defense I've heard is that time passes at different rates in the Spirit World, so Koh's date of Kuruk was wrong.

        Loading editor
    • SparksFromHades wrote:
      One defense I've heard is that time passes at different rates in the Spirit World, so Koh's date of Kuruk was wrong.

      Well actually then, they weren't really thinking about like timelines..but ever since they gave him a random year to die on..it screwed over the whole thing.

        Loading editor
    • If you said "it happened 8 or 9 days ago" and it was really 6 days ago, you wouldn't feel too bad, you'd just say it was a small mistake. Similarly, an all powerful immortal spirit who's been around forever would think of being off by two centuries like you would think of being off by two days. Also, I highly doubt Aang was exactly the 1000'th avatar. It seemed clear in context that Roku was exaggurating. He said something like "I have learned firebending in a thousand lifetimes, I need to do so again." He did not say "Aang, you are the one thousandth Avatar. Congratulations, you get a free snow cone."

        Loading editor
    • The purpose of using 1000 was more probable to have been used to show Jeong Jeong there had been many successful Avatars in the past, rather than give an exact number. Still, I feel I've seen that be incorrectly written in some article, though I can't remember which one.

        Loading editor
    • TheLoKnessmonster wrote:
      If you said "it happened 8 or 9 days ago" and it was really 6 days ago, you wouldn't feel too bad, you'd just say it was a small mistake. Similarly, an all powerful immortal spirit who's been around forever would think of being off by two centuries like you would think of being off by two days. Also, I highly doubt Aang was exactly the 1000'th avatar. It seemed clear in context that Roku was exaggurating. He said something like "I have learned firebending in a thousand lifetimes, I need to do so again." He did not say "Aang, you are the one thousandth Avatar. Congratulations, you get a free snow cone."

      Agree with your statement though, he wasn't the 1000th Avatar, Roku was. Aang is the 1001st Avatar. The Lion Turtles were the ones who made the Avatar no? That means if the Avatar was around for that long then the first Avatar was around like 100 million years ago?

        Loading editor
    • King Bumis Heir wrote:
      ...Just give Kuruk and Yanchen, 100 and something years of life, and add it to the things, lastly meaning that Unnamed fire Avatar, was not around a thousand years before Aang's awakening. It was about 600 - 700 years before...

      I'm quoting what you said earlier. Notice the way you said "100 and something years", "around a thousand years", "about 600-700 years". You use round numbers as estimates, Roku would too, it's not exactly 1,000. Also, whew did you hear the Lion turtles made the avatar? Plus, using my estimations from before, 1,000 avatars would be 100,000 years, not 100,000,000. You're off by a thousand times. That was a rough estimate, which was way off. If Roku was that off with his rough estimate of how many avatars there were, there would be just 1 avatar, which is clearly not true as we've seen at least 100 directly in the statue room of the Southern Air Temple. I get that you're trying to get information from Roku's statement in "The Deserter," but please be aware of how people, including fictional spirit people, use round numbers like 1,000 in everyday life.

        Loading editor
    • TheLoKnessmonster wrote:
      King Bumis Heir wrote:
      ...Just give Kuruk and Yanchen, 100 and something years of life, and add it to the things, lastly meaning that Unnamed fire Avatar, was not around a thousand years before Aang's awakening. It was about 600 - 700 years before...
      I'm quoting what you said earlier. Notice the way you said "100 and something years", "around a thousand years", "about 600-700 years". You use round numbers as estimates, Roku would too, it's not exactly 1,000. Also, whew did you hear the Lion turtles made the avatar? Plus, using my estimations from before, 1,000 avatars would be 100,000 years, not 100,000,000. You're off by a thousand times. That was a rough estimate, which was way off. If Roku was that off with his rough estimate of how many avatars there were, there would be just 1 avatar, which is clearly not true as we've seen at least 100 directly in the statue room of the Southern Air Temple. I get that you're trying to get information from Roku's statement in "The Deserter," but please be aware of how people, including fictional spirit people, use round numbers like 1,000 in everyday life.

      You're correct I was just giving a rough estimate of about 100 million. Well actually, I don't remember how the Avatar was made. I just remember it had something to do with Lion Turtles. I mean ever seen the scroll painting in the "The Library"? There was like three or four lion turtles in the picture and a human being standing on the bottom side.

      Could it be that the First Avatar, actually went to Lion Turtles to grant the ability to bend the four elements? I mean sure, I guess he had to make a pilgrimage, and do some tests to grant this power. So that he can have a pure spirit and what not for him to reincarnate. Meaning that probably at that time, the Lion Turtles might've made each nation bend one element. Remember they bent the energy within themselves before they bended the elements. I know that this makes no sense, because, I can't even explain it.

      Using my computer calculator and roughly estimating the First Avatar was around 100,166 years ago. I did 997 x 100 = 99,700 + 230 = 99,930 + 70 = 100,000 + 166 = 100,166

      Seeing as I took out Kyoshi, Roku, and Aang out. So if there really was 1,000 Avatars like Roku estimated then, I counted 997 Avatars, plus Kyoshi's Age of Death, including Roku's and Aang's. I know that Aang died 66 biologically, but since he was frozen in the iceberg 100 years, that kind of adds into it. So using the calculator, I roughly believe thats when the First Avatar was around. But if what we do to what Koh said, that Kuruk was around 800 - 900 years then.. 996 x 100 = 99,600 + 100,400 + 230 = 100, 630 + 70 = 100,700 + 166 = 100,866

      or

      996 x 100 = 99,600 + 100,500 + 230 = 100,730 + 70 = 100,800 + 166 = 100,966

      So by using the estimate that Koh said, he was around 100,866 - 100,966 years ago.

      Meaning that the date exactly if recorded what of been --> 100,965 BSC or 101,065 BSC.

        Loading editor
    • First off completely missed the point of my previous statement. What I was trying to say what's that have Avatar Roku's number of 1000 Avatars was off and was just round number instead of an exact figure. [[1]] is the image you mean I believe. I don't see how this shows the lion turtles giving bending to the avatar. What you were saying earlier Followed on the assumption that there are 1000 avatars which is exactly what I was refuting in my previous post. And if you're making estimates you can't Say exact dates.

        Loading editor
    • Many people believe our world is millions of years old, how hard is it to believe the Atla world could also be just as ancient?

        Loading editor
    • I'm not saying the Avatar world isn't ancient, it very well could be millions or even billions of years old like ours. However, Human civilization is certainly not that old. In our world, it goes back about 10,000 years. The avatar world, it could go back even further. What I am trying to say is that it makes more sense that Roku's saying of 1,000 avatars was not an exact figure. It was a figurative use of a round number, and it makes more sense to try to get the number of avatars from other sources, namely the statues in the southern air temple. Perhaps the amount of statues increases on floors we can't see in these images, but I don't think that 1,000 avatars is the exact number up to Roku or Aang.

        Loading editor
    • If I recall from the flashbacks we see from, for example, Kyoshi's time, not a whole lot seemed to change. What's to say they reached that point and didn't progress any further until they ended up working together? (LoK). It's plausible, considering it wasn't until Sozin invaded and began to put up FN colonies in EK that great metal allowing further advancement. Also, the Avatar isn't likely to consider technological advancement on top of his/her to-do list as someone else mentioned. Also, who's to say there weren't a lot of wars? We know nothing of most of the Avatars, who's to say that some weren't able to stop war all the time? Bound to stunt any tech development.

      Also, taking into account some Avatar's may have failed in their role, who's to say they didn't die younger than the round about guess of 100. Some could very well have died/been killed as young as Aang, being the Avatar is no minor thing, someone in the world is bound to want to kill it for power or glory or whatever.

        Loading editor
    • Ruen wrote:
      If I recall from the flashbacks we see from, for example, Kyoshi's time, not a whole lot seemed to change. What's to say they reached that point and didn't progress any further until they ended up working together? (LoK). It's plausible, considering it wasn't until Sozin invaded and began to put up FN colonies in EK that great metal allowing further advancement. Also, the Avatar isn't likely to consider technological advancement on top of his/her to-do list as someone else mentioned. Also, who's to say there weren't a lot of wars? We know nothing of most of the Avatars, who's to say that some weren't able to stop war all the time? Bound to stunt any tech development.

      Also, taking into account some Avatar's may have failed in their role, who's to say they didn't die younger than the round about guess of 100. Some could very well have died/been killed as young as Aang, being the Avatar is no minor thing, someone in the world is bound to want to kill it for power or glory or whatever.

      I agree with your statement about not knowing about any others past Yangchen or Kuruk, you're correct in fact. I just wanted to estimate their ages to 100 - 150 years. But there possibly could've been some that died young or been killed at a young age.

      But know this has nothing to do with the topic of the timeline, but if like Kyoshi died at 230, how come she doesn't appear like she's 230 years old? She appears like she's young? Same goes with Aang. I think its maybe the form they want to take as a spirit on their favorite age appearance?

        Loading editor
    • I always thought that was the case.

        Loading editor
    • Well I think it does make perfect sense actually lol

        Loading editor
    • Well yeah, considering Kyoshi lived to being really old. When she appears to Aang though, she's pretty much in her prime. Interesting choice for Roku though, but I guess it fits his personality of the "wise old mentor". I also think it's about his guilt for his past mistakes.

        Loading editor
    • 100 years was meant to be an average. With some Avatars living to be 230 years old like Kyoshi that would balance out the average.

        Loading editor
    • That was me. Sorry for not logging in.

        Loading editor
    • See I don't think Kyoshi looked like that when she died at 230. She probably looked like this..

      http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma1ordP2sK1rnrycdo1_500.jpg

      Yeah, from the known Avatars Kyoshi is the oldest one. From the unknown ones there must've been some that lived longer than Kyoshi. Like maybe 300 - 500 years, seemingly it could be possible..so that throws off my rough estimate of how long ago the First Avatar was around..

        Loading editor
    • It says in escape from the spirit world, one of two games considered canon along with welcome to republic city, that Kyoshi is the oldest avatar ever. Also, that picture is just creepy. Let's hope she aged more gracefully. By a lot. I do think that spirits can choose their favorite appearance. For instance, in "the avatar and the firelord" Aang has hair in the physical world but is bald like normal in the spirit world.

        Loading editor
    • TheLoKnessmonster wrote:
      It says in escape from the spirit world, one of two games considered canon along with welcome to republic city, that Kyoshi is the oldest avatar ever. Also, that picture is just creepy. Let's hope she aged more gracefully. By a lot. I do think that spirits can choose their favorite appearance. For instance, in "the avatar and the firelord" Aang has hair in the physical world but is bald like normal in the spirit world.

      Lol it was just an example. But yeah, that's what I think too, maybe the first Avatar looks so old with a large beard, that if Bryke wanted to be comical they would have two spirits behind the first Avatar carrying his long beard around..

        Loading editor
    • did u ever notice ozai has no birthdate on the timeline

        Loading editor
    • No not really..

        Loading editor
    • We have no clue as to when he was born, we don't know his age. And people can cut their beards, but that would be funny.

        Loading editor
    • See, it would be funny. If Bryke visits this site regularly..they should see that post with the First Avatar having a really long beard and two spirits carrying it around along with him..lol I think it SHOULD be done

        Loading editor
    • Perhaps, Legend of Korra book 2 is called Spirits. Good opportunity.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, yes it is.

        Loading editor
    • Im pretty sure theres a quote in ATLA that Avatars only live for as long as the world needs them

        Loading editor
    • No, I think they live as long as they possibly can live, until there bodies naturally die.

        Loading editor
    • I'm inclined to agree with bumi's heir

        Loading editor
    • Maybe the average life expectancy was different way before Aang and Kyoshi and that's why there is so many Avatars. Bryke was obviously not good at math and that's why there is so many goofs.

        Loading editor
    • That could be a good explanation or the simple fact that humanity in the Avatar World has been around for a very long time.

        Loading editor
    • Again I agree with bumi's heir. We have no idea how old humanity is in there world, but if it is the same as ours (comparing their time to the corresponding time in history) it would be several thousand years.

        Loading editor
    • If there actually is about a thousand Avatars as Roku stated in Book 1 Chapter 16, then the Earth with which the Avatar and the Four Nations is in, is several thousands years old.

        Loading editor
    • So all-in-all the timeline works just fine.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah basically.

        Loading editor
    • Thebigofan wrote:
      Avatars have a higher life expectancy than non-avatars.


      No they don't. Aang died in his sixties.

        Loading editor
    • Because of his 100 years in the iceberg. That's 160 years, 100 of which his body was stuck in suspended animation.

        Loading editor
    • ^

        Loading editor
    • Wow, I forgot about this thread...

        Loading editor
    • Thebigofan wrote:
      Aang died a young age because the 100 years of stay in the avatar state took a toll on his body. As for Roku he died from inhaling poisonous gas, any one would die from that.


      I'm pretty sure Roku died from having an avalanche of rocks crush him. The gas just made him too weak to escape.

        Loading editor
    • it wasn't an avalanche of rocks, it was a river (of sorts) of lava. not quite rocks yet, some cooling still needed. :)

      but you're right about the gas

        Loading editor
    • The drama a single post can create...

        Loading editor
    • Officially, it's called a pyroclastic flow.  It's a mixture of hot gases, ash, rock, and lava.  So pretty much it's a lethal mix of everything said above, plus some ash.  Point is, deadly.

        Loading editor
    • ^

        Loading editor
    • Aang's secret to living this long:

      DANCE the night away live your life and stay YOUNG on the floor ;) (Umm... it's a song by J-Lo called 'On the Floor' plus Aang dances in that Wang Fire episode lol)

        Loading editor
    • The Avatar lives that long.

      -The Four Nations are meant to be just that: Four!

        Loading editor
    • 111.92.99.103 wrote:
      The drama a single post can create...


      lol gotta luv the internet

        Loading editor
    • you have to remember that after chin the great there was no war meaning no stress on the avatar, plus she could have meditated a kind of aura of life upon herself by using the spirituay energy of the avatar spirit causing a advanced age

        Loading editor
    • kyoshi is the avatar spirit...they all are...so...

        Loading editor
    • exactly witch means she could meditate on that power and creating a way to live a longer life

        Loading editor
    •   Loading editor
    • besides, if she did it in that lifetime, why not any other?

        Loading editor
    • because maybe after her the spirits got angered and destroyed any scripture of this technique she used so that no other avatar could use it

        Loading editor
    • The spirits would have to erase Kyoshi's memories of such a technique to keep her from telling future avatars how to use the same method to live longer, and I don't think the spirits are capable of doing that.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, besides, spiritual knowledge like this wouldnt endanger the spirits, since they live basically forever, and within their own realm. The spirits ought to be angry with REAL, offensive junk to their/this world <points at LOK pollution, environmental problems, and disrespect to the spirits>

      I just think Kyoshi was special, and that's it. 

        Loading editor
    • exactly. and also i was talking about the spirits that are in charge of time and life

        Loading editor
    • Thebigofan wrote:
      Avatars have a higher life expectancy than non-avatars.


      no because aang died when he was just 66 (biologically)

        Loading editor
    • 68*

        Loading editor
    • King Bumis Heir wrote:
      68*

      No, Aang did actually die at the (biological) age of 66 years.

      "no because aang died when he was just 66 (biologically)" Yes Aang died at a "pretty young" age, but as Thebigofan mentions a few posts bellow the one you quoted, Aang died at the (biological) age of 66 years because the 100 years which he spent in the iceberg strained his body.

        Loading editor
    • An anonymous contributor
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message