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  • I feel like this is one reason why people try to argue that Aang's avatar state was stronger than Korra's(Even though it wasn't).

    There are two tyles of Avatar states, one is when you have no control over your body and all your previous incarnations take over. This was seen throughout ATLA and also when Korra fought Zaheer after being poisoned. The other is when you use all your past lives to make your self stronger, you still have control over your body(Korra often used this one).

    My point is the Avatar state is weaker when mastered because you are unable to use certain abilities that you don't have. For example, Aang was able to create a multi story water spout without knowing how to waterbend.

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    • Aangs full strength was drained by that Iceberg. The full effects of being trapped in that iceberg for a 100 years ending up giving him an early death. So his spirit powers are nowhere close to what his full potential should have been. That would explain why it looks like Korra has stronger spirit abilities.

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    • Aang's spiritual connection was alot stronger than Korra's. Also where did you get that information from?(I beleive you I'm just wondering).

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    • It was mentioned in season 1. I looked it up and it said episode rememberance. Anyways Aang never got a chance to use his full power. Just surviving in that Iceberg killed some of his potential. Certaintly took his life.

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    • Kimathite wrote:

      My point is the Avatar state is weaker when mastered because you are unable to use certain abilities that you don't have. For example, Aang was able to create a multi story water spout without knowing how to waterbend.

      This doesn't seem right.  I guess you could compare Avatar State Aang to non-Avatar State Book 1 Aang and then compare Avatar State Aang to non-Avatar State Book 3 Aang, and then say that Book 1 Aang gets more of a benefit from the AS than Book 3 Aang does.  But that doesn't mean that the AS has actually gotten weaker in an absolute sense.  If anything, it just means that non-AS Aang is getting stronger.

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    • McJediProbie wrote:

      Kimathite wrote:

      My point is the Avatar state is weaker when mastered because you are unable to use certain abilities that you don't have. For example, Aang was able to create a multi story water spout without knowing how to waterbend.

      This doesn't seem right.  I guess you could compare Avatar State Aang to non-Avatar State Book 1 Aang and then compare Avatar State Aang to non-Avatar State Book 3 Aang, and then say that Book 1 Aang gets more of a benefit from the AS than Book 3 Aang does.  But that doesn't mean that the AS has actually gotten weaker in an absolute sense.  If anything, it just means that non-AS Aang is getting stronger.

      This is true also. The avatar state is the previous avatars peak abilities. The older Aang became it wasnt even need to use it. Not only that the avatar state is powerful but also a potential weakness if it gets injured. That gas been shown multiple times. Issues from usage can pop up later. Like the case of Aang dying youngish.

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    • It's not so much that it gets weaker, they just use it in smaller bursts. People tend to forget that the protracted rampages Aang would go on while in it was how it wasn't supposed to be used. Speaking of, it's only mentioned that the iceberg shortened Aang's lifespan, nothing about lowering his power. Korra has just learned spiritual things that, as far as we know, Aang didn't, at least not during the time in which we've seen him most active. Last Airbender era Aang still hasn't reached the age Korra was at during the start of her story, & he might not have had any need to meet Raava.

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    • If it shortened his lifespan that means it deteriorated his overall health. Vitality is tied into a person performance. We don't even know when he started to feel the effects of his health. We know when he died though.

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    • The Avatar State never became weaker.
      For example, Kyoshi completely controlled him and was able to separate the piece from the continent.

      The Korra's AS  is not weaker than Aang.
      If in battle she prefers not to does  create giant winds or giant waves for  example (spoiler - she can do it and did in season 2 and 4 in the AS), this does not mean that she does not know how.
      Korra uses the AS like Roku  - just as power amplifier,not a protective mechanism.

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    • No, what I'm trying to say is that the Avatar state is more powerful when you cant control it. 

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    • Kimathite wrote:
      No, what I'm trying to say is that the Avatar state is more powerful when you cant control it. 

      And what we're (or at least I'm) saying is there's nothing at all supporting that.

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    • It's equal, I guess. A master Avatar can draw equal power from the Avatar State like a rampaging uncontrolled Avatar State. 

      Also, a question. I just remembered after reading some Avatar State stuff in the wiki. In the comics, Aang's shit glows for a long period. Does that mean that he hasn't fully mastered it yet? He can just go in-and-out at will but he hasn't mastered drawing the right ammount of power for a task?

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    • We see him go in & out of it at the end of the series. The comics are probably the artists taking liberties &/or he's in situations where the continuous state is more useful.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      We see him go in & out of it at the end of the series. 

      When?

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    • Literally the end of the series. Sozin's Comet Part 4. When he puts out the fires.

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    • He hits a rock that triggers the Avatar state (deus ex rockina). The only time he goes into it on his own is in crossroads of destiny, and he loses it right after.

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    • Pretty sure a mastered avatar can still call upon their past lives though.

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    • LanoBeniko wrote: The Avatar State never became weaker.
      For example, Kyoshi completely controlled him and was able to separate the piece from the continent.

      The Korra's AS  is not weaker than Aang.
      If in battle she prefers not to does  create giant winds or giant waves for  example (spoiler - she can do it and did in season 2 and 4 in the AS), this does not mean that she does not know how.
      Korra uses the AS like Roku  - just as power amplifier,not a protective mechanism.

      ^This. People keep (inaccurately) saying "LoK's benders are weaker than AtLA's" forgetting that modern benders aren't in the boonies anymore where making instant hills and otherwise DBZ-style destruction is a no-no that's likely a misdemeanor or something to the point that benders almost habitually hold back, plus it wouldn't be hard to track down the earthbender who made a series of stalagmites down main street. Consider how much shit Korra tore up on her first day in Republic City or with the newly-minted crew during "When Extremes Meet."

      OTOH, a matured Korra in an empty Republic City against a giant mecha was using hurricane-level winds in AS and didn't look the least bit fatigued, suggesting she was still holding back and likely could've gone as all-out as against Zaheer had it been practical/necessary.

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    • A lot has to do with who is doing the bending. Viper is little more than your basic street thug, for instance, of course he's nothing compared to Unalaq or Tonraq. There's also a greater emphasis on precision, like Mako doesn't need to create huge firestorms to do damage, he just needs to hit what he's aiming at, which he is quite good at.

      It's hilarious to me when people bring up how much the bending styles have "deteriorated," when the reason the styles have changed is because the old ones were full of holes like how classic earthbending made you a sitting duck, or how classic firebending wasted a lot of energy.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      A lot has to do with who is doing the bending. Viper is little more than your basic street thug, for instance, of course he's nothing compared to Unalaq or Tonraq. There's also a greater emphasis on precision, like Mako doesn't need to create huge firestorms to do damage, he just needs to hit what he's aiming at, which he is quite good at.

      It's hilarious to me when people bring up how much the bending styles have "deteriorated," when the reason the styles have changed is because the old ones were full of holes like how classic earthbending made you a sitting duck, or how classic firebending wasted a lot of energy.

       Well Azula's "classic" firebending was like Mako's very precise. Like in the episdoe when Aang and Zuko fought Azula in that town (Sorry forgot the episode title) She was always very calculating with her blasts. So I'd argue that SOME ​​​​​​​"classic" benders have found ways to counter the holes. (Also I'm not refering to "i hate cherry pits" Azula.)

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    • Classic benders taught the current generation of benders. 

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    • Genso~No wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      A lot has to do with who is doing the bending. Viper is little more than your basic street thug, for instance, of course he's nothing compared to Unalaq or Tonraq. There's also a greater emphasis on precision, like Mako doesn't need to create huge firestorms to do damage, he just needs to hit what he's aiming at, which he is quite good at.

      It's hilarious to me when people bring up how much the bending styles have "deteriorated," when the reason the styles have changed is because the old ones were full of holes like how classic earthbending made you a sitting duck, or how classic firebending wasted a lot of energy.

       Well Azula's "classic" firebending was like Mako's very precise. Like in the episdoe when Aang and Zuko fought Azula in that town (Sorry forgot the episode title) She was always very calculating with her blasts. So I'd argue that SOME ​​​​​​​"classic" benders have found ways to counter the holes. (Also I'm not refering to "i hate cherry pits" Azula.)

      Azula was also (repeatedly) stated/established as being a prodigy to the extent that even when wolfbat-shit-crazy, she still learned how to redirect lightning just by watching, so she's an outlier (to the extent I pointed out that she would be a better rival to Iroh II than Ozai in the other thread) just as Amon's family was when it came to Bloodbending, (which still has its holes even on Amon's level).

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    • O-kei Dou-kei wrote:

      Genso~No wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      A lot has to do with who is doing the bending. Viper is little more than your basic street thug, for instance, of course he's nothing compared to Unalaq or Tonraq. There's also a greater emphasis on precision, like Mako doesn't need to create huge firestorms to do damage, he just needs to hit what he's aiming at, which he is quite good at.

      It's hilarious to me when people bring up how much the bending styles have "deteriorated," when the reason the styles have changed is because the old ones were full of holes like how classic earthbending made you a sitting duck, or how classic firebending wasted a lot of energy.

      Well Azula's "classic" firebending was like Mako's very precise. Like in the episdoe when Aang and Zuko fought Azula in that town (Sorry forgot the episode title) She was always very calculating with her blasts. So I'd argue that SOME ​​​​​​​"classic" benders have found ways to counter the holes. (Also I'm not refering to "i hate cherry pits" Azula.)

      Azula was also (repeatedly) stated/established as being a prodigy to the extent that even when wolfbat-shit-crazy, she still learned how to redirect lightning just by watching, so she's an outlier (to the extent I pointed out that she would be a better rival to Iroh II than Ozai in the other thread) just as Amon's family was when it came to Bloodbending, (which still has its holes even on Amon's level).

      Katara and Aang were also labeled as Prodigies, your point?

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    • Katara's was due to hard work (ex. she was initially envious of Aang's inherent talent as The Avatar, but worked hard to become his teacher) and despite Aang being spelled out as gifted due to being The Avatar, slacked off, (which Pakku points out to Katara while he was playing in the snow). Azula's still "born lucky" as was/is Korra in the physical/Yang aspect of bending, but naturally talented or not, hard work is still essential throughout the series we consistently see people training, if not introduced as such.

      Additionally, I'm reminded of the "tainted" version of firebending having the "hole" of stamina/energy efficiency that Iroh pointed out to Zuko during the Agni Kai against Zhao, (whose personality and fighting style are both very impulsive) along with breaking his root. It's also another point to why Ozai would lose against General Iroh because he makes big, flashy, wasteful blasts contrary to modern firebending's energy-saving precision, plus the lack of negative motivation means better self-control not to go rage-blind.

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    • O-kei Dou-kei wrote:
      Katara's was due to hard work (ex. she was initially envious of Aang's inherent talent as The Avatar, but worked hard to become his teacher) and despite Aang being spelled out as gifted due to being The Avatar, slacked off, (which Pakku points out to Katara while he was playing in the snow). Azula's still "born lucky" as was/is Korra in the physical/Yang aspect of bending, but naturally talented or not, hard work is still essential throughout the series we consistently see people training, if not introduced as such.

      Additionally, I'm reminded of the "tainted" version of firebending having the "hole" of stamina/energy efficiency that Iroh pointed out to Zuko during the Agni Kai against Zhao, (whose personality and fighting style are both very impulsive) along with breaking his root. It's also another point to why Ozai would lose against General Iroh because he makes big, flashy, wasteful blasts contrary to modern firebending's energy-saving precision, plus the lack of negative motivation means better self-control not to go rage-blind.

      Aang was naturally talented at Fire and Water, ofc he mastered airbending and he only really struggled greatly with Earth for obvious reasons. That's a prodigy. Also threads are seperate for a reason. Also you do realize the times we sa Ozai fight was durign the comet? When normal firebending was amplified and much bigger.

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    • Genso~No wrote:

      O-kei Dou-kei wrote:
      Katara's was due to hard work (ex. she was initially envious of Aang's inherent talent as The Avatar, but worked hard to become his teacher) and despite Aang being spelled out as gifted due to being The Avatar, slacked off, (which Pakku points out to Katara while he was playing in the snow). Azula's still "born lucky" as was/is Korra in the physical/Yang aspect of bending, but naturally talented or not, hard work is still essential throughout the series we consistently see people training, if not introduced as such.

      Additionally, I'm reminded of the "tainted" version of firebending having the "hole" of stamina/energy efficiency that Iroh pointed out to Zuko during the Agni Kai against Zhao, (whose personality and fighting style are both very impulsive) along with breaking his root. It's also another point to why Ozai would lose against General Iroh because he makes big, flashy, wasteful blasts contrary to modern firebending's energy-saving precision, plus the lack of negative motivation means better self-control not to go rage-blind.

      Aang was naturally talented at Fire and Water, ofc he mastered airbending and he only really struggled greatly with Earth for obvious reasons. That's a prodigy. Also threads are seperate for a reason. Also you do realize the times we sa Ozai fight was durign the comet? When normal firebending was amplified and much bigger.

      It's called being The Avatar. Even when The Avatar has a problem with their opposing element, they're still naturally more adept than the average bender, but Aang was simply on a shorter time frame to learn compared to previous incarnations like Roku. And yes, I do remember Sozin's Comet and amping up his power means he's still fighting the same flashy yet impractical blasts he would at a normal level, which is the only way he could really challenge God and even then, was repeatedly/extremely lucky God didn't want to kill him.

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    • O-kei Dou-kei wrote:

      Genso~No wrote:

      O-kei Dou-kei wrote:
      Katara's was due to hard work (ex. she was initially envious of Aang's inherent talent as The Avatar, but worked hard to become his teacher) and despite Aang being spelled out as gifted due to being The Avatar, slacked off, (which Pakku points out to Katara while he was playing in the snow). Azula's still "born lucky" as was/is Korra in the physical/Yang aspect of bending, but naturally talented or not, hard work is still essential throughout the series we consistently see people training, if not introduced as such.

      Additionally, I'm reminded of the "tainted" version of firebending having the "hole" of stamina/energy efficiency that Iroh pointed out to Zuko during the Agni Kai against Zhao, (whose personality and fighting style are both very impulsive) along with breaking his root. It's also another point to why Ozai would lose against General Iroh because he makes big, flashy, wasteful blasts contrary to modern firebending's energy-saving precision, plus the lack of negative motivation means better self-control not to go rage-blind.

      Aang was naturally talented at Fire and Water, ofc he mastered airbending and he only really struggled greatly with Earth for obvious reasons. That's a prodigy. Also threads are seperate for a reason. Also you do realize the times we sa Ozai fight was durign the comet? When normal firebending was amplified and much bigger.

      It's called being The Avatar. Even when The Avatar has a problem with their opposing element, they're still naturally more adept than the average bender, but Aang was simply on a shorter time frame to learn compared to previous incarnations like Roku. And yes, I do remember Sozin's Comet and amping up his power means he's still fighting the same flashy yet impractical blasts he would at a normal level, which is the only way he could really challenge God and even then, was repeatedly/extremely lucky God didn't want to kill him.

      If it wasn't for the comet his balsts wouldn't be as big, and the flashy blasts were effective since he had "god" at his toes until he used the AS. Also if anything Raava/Vaatu or the Lion Turtles are better representations of God while the Avatar being a "Jesus". Though none should be given that title to not offend anyone.

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    • 1. I already said his blasts were big were because of the comet and again, Aang's more handicapped by himself (as in "Man Verses Self"-style conflict) than simply because Ozai's that damn good.

      2. Whoop-de-do on the analogy w/o Bryke retconning the Avatar Spirit's origins anyway.

      3. I still don't get what your fixation is on Ozai given how much of a one-dimensional, meh-looking character he was.

      4. Like the other thread, this is the "breakdown" part of the argument where one person's gotten so frustrated/confused that they're no longer focus and just trying to throw any old thing in a vain attempt at making a point. As in the point of this thread was arguing over whether the AS gets weaker upon being mastered, Neo and myself have stated it doesn't with newer bending simply being more precise for multiple reasons and you were trying to use Azula as a norm when she's an obvious outlier as a counterpoint before you started grasping at straws.

      Berserk AS!Aang was "allowed" to go all-out in open spaces like Wulong Forest and not only did Berserk AS!Korra do likewise (in a similar place as homage to the original series,) but aside from Mastered AS!Korra still powerful enough to be on a Superman/DBZ-level yet holding back, this series has made it crystal-clear that the property damage doesn't magically fix itself considering "Turf Wars" elaborating on all the financial and legal problems of cleaning up, so the OP's claim is dead wrong.

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    • O-kei Dou-kei wrote:
      1. I already said his blasts were big were because of the comet and again, Aang's more handicapped by himself (as in "Man Verses Self"-style conflict) than simply because Ozai's that damn good.

      2. Whoop-de-do on the analogy w/o Bryke retconning the Avatar Spirit's origins anyway.

      3. I still don't get what your fixation is on Ozai given how much of a one-dimensional, meh-looking character he was.

      4. Like the other thread, this is the "breakdown" part of the argument where one person's gotten so frustrated/confused that they're no longer focus and just trying to throw any old thing in a vain attempt at making a point. As in the point of this thread was arguing over whether the AS gets weaker upon being mastered, Neo and myself have stated it doesn't with newer bending simply being more precise for multiple reasons and you were trying to use Azula as a norm when she's an obvious outlier as a counterpoint before you started grasping at straws.

      Berserk AS!Aang was "allowed" to go all-out in open spaces like Wulong Forest and not only did Berserk AS!Korra do likewise (in a similar place as homage to the original series,) but aside from Mastered AS!Korra still powerful enough to be on a Superman/DBZ-level yet holding back, this series has made it crystal-clear that the property damage doesn't magically fix itself considering "Turf Wars" elaborating on all the financial and legal problems of cleaning up, so the OP's claim is dead wrong.

      The AS in itself is better when mastered

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    • ...In what way?

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      ...In what way?

      Because, untamed it can be dangerous and you can do regretable things, but with it mastered it'd boost your bending capabilites, giving you the same pwoer but you control how much leaks out.

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    • People keep saying that Aang avatar state is stronger that Korra own, but I say they are equal. The reasons being when wan first fused with raava to start the avatar cycle raava was very small then it gained years of past lives. Now when Korra refused with raava she was gigantic but lacking in past lives. When Aang uses the avatar state he's not in control. if Korra was not in control and all emotional her avatar state would be just like Aang, but the writers wanted something different. Aang passed the knowledge of the avatar state to Korra, making going in and out easy just so she could go in for some skills. If Aang flashing in and out of the avatar state Y'all gonna be like Aang avatar state is weak. Back to Korra, the writers knew Korra gonna be overpowered, so you notice in season 3 she only used it twice one time in episode 1 and against Zaheer. The writers knew that the avatar state is gonna be way overpowered, so they decided to nerf it. When she is poisoned it's nerfing her Avatar state so it's power is trying to keep her alive like life support while the last bits of power limited power help fight Zaheer and she was still overpowered. Don’t even say she was weak in her poisoned avatar state because being poisoned affected the precision, accuracy, coordination and overall power i.e. (smaller fire blasts). In season 4 she has PTSD and she's damaged and still recovering and her avatar state is affected due to the trauma which limits her avatar state. Notice against the mech she doesn't go out because she hasn't fully recovered mentally. She’s still strong risking her life and avatar cycle to save kurvira and open a spirit portal. What I’m trying to say Aang avatar state is stronger in skill due to past lives and strong in raw power. Korra avatar state is stronger in raw power directly from the new raava light spirit and lacks in past lives skill but her skill is still strong. Please, this is just my opinion but uh just see the bigger picture. People just need to get off the Fanboy throne and stop being biased and finally acknowledge that Korra is just as special as Aang. I say both of their Avatar States are equal but eventually, Korra will surpass Aang and so on to the avatar after Korra. he will surpass Korra.

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