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  • Ok so as we all know, their are basicly two types of Korra's, thier's the Old Korra the fiery, pugnacious, tough, impatient, headstrong, sarcastic, and assertive young girl who was always ready for a fight that we saw in Book 1, Book 2 and Book 3 and their's New Korra the shy, timid, gentil, nervous, sensitive woman that we saw in Book 4. But hear is a quastion I have, How would the New Korra had handeld the problums that the Old Korra faced (you know like Amon, Unalaq and Zaheer).

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    • I'm not sure how you confused Korra with my Aroma, but probably call the cops.

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    • Korra from book 4 is not shy, gentil, timid or nervous. She is more sensetive tham Korra from book 1 and 2 and she is also more confident, charismatic, powerfull and mature. (after beyond the wilds of course) Korra from season 4 would have defeated all three of the villans before they got to such an advanced stage in their plans because she got much more powerful. Wolf 91 you realy dont understand Korra and you should probably rewatch The Legend Of Korra.

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    • She would have defeated them more quickly, I think. Maybe removed their bending abilities as well

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    • Amon:  She and pals would dig up his dirty little waterbending secret, then contrive a way to expose it.

      Unalaq:  Korra would either abjure Vaatu or shove him back in his tree before Unalaq could fuse with him.  Meanwhile, Unalaq would have just played his hand—possibly in front of the twins—and would probably go jump in the Fog himself.

      Zaheer:  "Are you completely unaware that the anarchy you're trying to achieve would have no stability and would devolve into thousands of petty oligarchies—which you and your little pals would then have to spend the rest of your natural lifespans breaking—or did whatever whack on the head you took that left that saltire also scramble your brains?  Also: you're no better than mediocre both as a strategist and as an airbender, and have no business fawning over Air Nomad history if you're going to be endangering the air n00bs."

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    • New Korra is hard to watch.

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    • Implying Zaheer would care about those accusations.

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    • Any anarchist, when accused of inadvertently creating oligarchies, will at very least either flinch (which we saw Zaheer do after Korra informed him that it was his fault that Kuvira had happened) or take offense (and thus, bicker).  And if anything, the latter is more likely if they're fanatical enough.  Based on that: it'd at least distract him.

      Unless, that is, you were referring to the comments about his airbending, his tactical skills, or that scar on the back of his head.  If he reacted at all to those, it'd likely be something along the lines of "well, that was petty."

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    • Any anarchist, when accused of inadvertently creating oligarchies, will at very least either flinch (which we saw Zaheer do after Korra informed him that it was his fault that Kuvira had happened) or take offense (and thus, bicker).. And if anything, the latter is more likely if they're fanatical enough. Based on that: it'd at least distract him.

      Or just be so convinced in their own smug self-righteousness that they don't even bother with it. The key thing about Kuvira is that she already happened, there was no denying her. And it's questionable just how much of an effect even that had on Zaheer.

      Unless, that is, you were referring to the comments about his airbending, his tactical skills, or that scar on the back of his head.

      Those too, particularly his strategies, which work just fine.

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    • From that dispassionate S.O.B.?  That little flinch when Korra threw the Kuvira thing in his face was the equivalent of "oh, shit; I done fucked up" from anyone less dispassionate.

      And he put a metalbender in a metal cell (and gloated about it), made a scene in Zaofu, and didn't even think to adjust the ultimate plan after a massive setback.  Not what I'd call strategies that "work just fine."

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    • There's too little information to go on in the escape scene, since we don't actually know what happened next. For all we know, that guy wasn't just sleeping, or Zaheer may not have intended to kill them.

      He managed to get them into Zaofu undetected, would've covered up how he did it if Mako hadn't had his way, paralyzed Korra, & got her at least halfway out of the city before he was spotted by...Pabu. There's a reason why the phrase is "the best laid plans of mice & men often go astray," & not "any plan that goes astray isn't laid well."

      I don't know what "massive setback" you're talking about. Is this still about Zaofu? Because there was nothing to adjust, either Zaheer would manage to gather enough smoke to cover their escape, or they'd have to abandon the plan & leave Korra behind. As it turned out, it was the latter.

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    • I'm fairly sure all of the guards were at very least stirring when he booked it.  Even if he had been trying to kill the metalbender, he'd have at least known that he hadn't succeeded.  (Also: up until "The Ultimatum," while those jerkbenders certainly didn't shed any tears over collateral damage, they also seemed to at least somewhat try to contain or minimize it.)

      Guard animals, no matter how unassuming, should always be calculated for.  The fact that they didn't seem to know about Pabu at all—much less that he's an alert little guy, and at least as good of a guard animal as Naga when it comes to raising the alarm alone—doesn't reflect any too well on their strategy.  And while Zaheer needed Ghazan's lava to whip up a cinder cloud, he also took his sweet time doing so...which gave one of the guards time to cable him.

      I'm referring to how they apparently went into trying to kill Korra under the impression that P'Li would be around to one-shot her, then didn't re-calculate for her being removed from the picture.  (I mean...we know that Zaheer was past giving any damns after P'Li died; that's what the flight was about.  But was he so far past giving any damns that he got careless, or what?)

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    • Nah, I think you're expecting unreasonably perfect strategies, & faulting him when his inevitably fall short. Being able to predict that Bolin's pet ferret or whatever would specifically see them out of his window & wake him to raise the alarm is a borderline impossible level of detail to achieve. How would he have known that Korra's friend happened to have a pet, let alone a highly trained & intelligent one? It's not like he knew her personally, he was locked in a box for like a decade. While Bolin is semi-famous for being part of a team that almost won the Pro-Bending cup one time, how many pictures included Pabu, & how often were they circulated outside of Republic City almost a year later, for Zaheer to obtain in that brief time the Red Lotus was there?

      I guess Aiwei could've told him, but if Aiwei screwed up, that's on him. The fact that he kept screwing up is probably why he got fogged. There's meditation, but it's still not really known if Zaheer can project in the material world in the same way that Jinora can, & even if he can, you can only stay out of body for so long before suffering ill effects. Plus, there's the task of locating her, which is shown to be very difficult unless you have a "strong spiritual connection," whatever that means.

      Clearly, we're not meant to assume that he just took that time for no reason, so if it took him a while to generate cover, he must've needed it. As for killing Korra, once again, what else were they supposed to do? They needed to poison her to get her into the Avatar State, & then kill her somehow. Maybe some hypothetical mix of toxins would've been able to eliminate her no fuss, but they don't have infinite time & resources to work with. It's already quite a lot to work out a way to capture her, restrain her, & force her into the Avatar State, a combination of factors which has never been achieved before, as far as we know. I'd say it's a miracle that plan worked as well as it did, since it was almost certainly completely untested, & in fact impossible to test before actually performing it.

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    • No; I expect contingency plans and not running the villain ball for a touchdown.  And Zaheer lacked the former and invariably did the latter.

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    • So if we're expecting Korra to be Aroma, & Zaheer to be Aizen, who is Naga? I say Thomas the Tank Engine. Where do they get all of the coal to power her, & how can she run off of the railroad tracks?

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    • I never said anything about expecting Zaheer to be any other character—just to actually possess the skills for which the fandom praises him, rather than to constantly run the villain ball for a touchdown and get credited with those skills nonetheless.  (And I've never even watched Bleach in the first place.) 

      But then again, the short-arc format is probably to blame; they didn't have time for him to almost succeed more than once.

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    • I knew you were going to say that. The problem is that saying something is totally different from establishing it. If you can't explain to me how someone in Zaheer's position would actually be able to do what you're demanding, then what you're calling "strategy" is indistinguishable from magic. The joke is that Aizen has hundreds of years & vast amounts of resources to study his subjects, yet his layers of plans & predictions are still incredibly divisive--& he's not even going as far as to predict what people's pets will do!

      But, if I'm not going to get blood out of a stone no matter how hard I wring it, I'd ordinarily try to default back to the topic. The problem is that this topic already doesn't make much sense, since it's built on a premise of "new Korra" that doesn't actually exist. So I have decided to make it into a thread where characters are mistaken for other characters.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      I'm fairly sure all of the guards were at very least stirring when he booked it.  Even if he had been trying to kill the metalbender, he'd have at least known that he hadn't succeeded.  (Also: up until "The Ultimatum," while those jerkbenders certainly didn't shed any tears over collateral damage, they also seemed to at least somewhat try to contain or minimize it.)

      Guard animals, no matter how unassuming, should always be calculated for.  The fact that they didn't seem to know about Pabu at all—much less that he's an alert little guy, and at least as good of a guard animal as Naga when it comes to raising the alarm alone—doesn't reflect any too well on their strategy.  And while Zaheer needed Ghazan's lava to whip up a cinder cloud, he also took his sweet time doing so...which gave one of the guards time to cable him.

      I'm referring to how they apparently went into trying to kill Korra under the impression that P'Li would be around to one-shot her, then didn't re-calculate for her being removed from the picture.  (I mean...we know that Zaheer was past giving any damns after P'Li died; that's what the flight was about.  But was he so far past giving any damns that he got careless, or what?)

      That bold part in your comment I have a bit of an issue with. To me, Pabu waking up was more of a "for want of a nail" scenario that could have easily gone down either way. On the one hand, you're saying that Zaheer is a poor strategist simply because he didn't take Pabu into consideration. What would you have said if Pabu hadn't woken up at the time (or happen to not be sleeping by the window) and The Red Lotus had gotten away with Korra with no one the wiser (which is exactly what would have happened)? That was quite literally the only thing that alerted Zaofu to Zaheer and gang's presence. It just seems like if Pabu waking up without Zaheer having prior knowledge to his existence makes him a poor strategist, then by that logic if Pabu hadn't woken up in time and the Red Lotus got away with Korra, then his plan would have been completely sound, right?

      Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you to an extent. Zaheer isn't as good of a strategist as the fandom generally paints him, but I just don't really follow your logic or agree that Pabu waking up at the appropriate time (at least for Team Avatar's side) automatically negating the rather sound plan he and the Red Lotus came up with regarding Korra's (almost) capture. The fact that he can hardly ever improvise on the spot doesn't make him as brilliant of a strategist as the fandom thinks IMO (he tends to make one specific plan and if it doesn't go through exactly as planned the Red Lotus is left scrambling until the end at least where they finally get it in their heads to lure Korra to them rather than chasing her all over the world. Then after P'Li is killed, he really stops giving a damn either way so yeah...) Just my two cents.

      As for the topic at hand...."New Korra" sounds like something out of a horrible fanfic rather than anything we've seen canonically so....no comment?

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    • It just seems like if Pabu waking up without Zaheer having prior knowledge to his existence makes him a poor strategist, then by that logic if Pabu hadn't woken up in time and the Red Lotus got away with Korra, then his plan would have been completely sound, right?

      I agree with your general assertion that it's not being a bad strategist to not account for some minor detail you had no prior knowledge of. It's easy to write a character whose plans always go successfully, who seems to know everything down to the last detail, & it's very bad writing. But I don't think I'd agree that it would necessarily imply that it would be good strategy if Pabu didn't wake up, because her complaint is that he didn't account for Pabu.

      Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you to an extent. Zaheer isn't as good of a strategist as the fandom generally paints him

      How exactly are people generally painting him? I've seen his plans praised, but I've never seen anything saying that he was the smartest character in the universe, or anything.

      The fact that he can hardly ever improvise on the spot doesn't make him as brilliant of a strategist as the fandom thinks IMO (he tends to make one specific plan and if it doesn't go through exactly as planned the Red Lotus is left scrambling until the end at least where they finally get it in their heads to lure Korra to them rather than chasing her all over the world. Then after P'Li is killed, he really stops giving a damn either way so yeah...) Just my two cents.

      I mean, I agree that it's good to be able to have flexible plans when possible, but I still don't think I've seen anything where Zaheer should have been capable of improvising a new plan but failed.

      As for the topic at hand...."New Korra" sounds like something out of a horrible fanfic rather than anything we've seen canonically so....no comment?

      Hey now.

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    • But... but Zaheer is the best strategist in LoK. The only other character that could be considered close(but still far) is Kuvira, and her feats are laughably all displayed against inferior opponents. What does she do? Conquer the EK with a bunch of trained soldiers that fight hungry Mad Max scavengers? And most of the time she can just show some food and people will be like "Shut up and take our village". She also has a giant robot with a laser gun that her opponents don't have because morals. At this point, this is like the US dropping a nuke in some island country. It works, but it hardly needs a strategic mastermind to do so.

      Or do you think Amon was a good strategist? Failed to take one city even with technological superiority.

      Unalaq? I don't even know what to say here. I guess he invaded the south with his superior military. It's not the same as the manchus conquering China while being outnumbered almost 1000:1. You could totally say this is because chinese military is simply bad, though.

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    • From my view, just my view, don't fault me for anything. Basically, what you said about Korra from season 1 to 3, I agree. I think in season 4, she has certainly improved in her character. But it's not that significant. Half of the seeason was her facing her fears and hence she becomes the timid part of herself. Other than that, she still displays the traits from season 1 to 3. She became slightly more calmer, but I think overall, he character doesn't excalty improve ALL THAT MUCH. Plus, even in the new turf war comic, not to spoil the story, but she was still the same type of person from season 1 to 3. It's as if her personality change, which isn't much really, goes in from 1 ear and comes out the other. Not that I hate korra. I just feel that she is quite unlikable, for me at least. I just don't have much regard for her hot headed self, even in season 4.

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    • Korra being calmer in B4 can easily be attributed to her fear. She got pretty calm after Amon almost took her bending that one time.

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    • Zanka2222
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    • @Saitamabro I agree. But still, her fiery personality is still with her. Like i said, she didn't change all that much in her personality, even in season 4. Even in the turf war comic, her personality still remains if not got abit worse. Her much calmer self in season 4 (she still was rather fiery and pugnacious), was as if it wasn't there in the turf war comic. If there could be a future series, I would really want ther character to improve much much more.

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    • Sabervowing wrote:
      @Saitamabro

      Her much calmer self in season 4 (she still was rather fiery and pugnacious), was as if it wasn't there in the turf war comic.

      Actually, she was very accurate to her personality in book 4 in Turf Wars. If you're referring to that moment when she snapped at her father, that was only because he told her to "keep it to herself", while he meant no disrespect, what he said came out wrong and Korra thought he meant that she should keep her relationship with Asami a secret just because there are bigots out there. But Korra's maturity, rationality, spiritual affinity and wisdom was still there.

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    • Thobbi1 wrote:
      Sabervowing wrote:
      @Saitamabro

      Her much calmer self in season 4 (she still was rather fiery and pugnacious), was as if it wasn't there in the turf war comic.

      Actually, she was very accurate to her personality in book 4 in Turf Wars. If you're referring to that moment when she snapped at her father, that was only because he told her to "keep it to herself", while he meant no disrespect, what he said came out wrong and Korra thought he meant that she should keep her relationship with Asami a secret just because there are bigots out there. But Korra's maturity, rationality, spiritual affinity and wisdom was still there.

      I dunno, she's going round using the avatar state to threaten a property developer. I personally don't think that shows maturity or wisdom.

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    • Htchalk wrote:

      I dunno, she's going round using the avatar state to threaten a property developer. I personally don't think that shows maturity or wisdom.

      Why not? Roku used the Avatar State to threaten Sozin, Kyoshi used it to threaten the Earth King, Korra used it to threaten a greedy corporate dick who wanted to defile and ravage the home of the spirits. Heck, if I were Korra, I would have taken that property deed of his and shoved it up his ass where it belongs. lol. But seriously, Korra had every right to get that guy to back off.

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    • Thobbi1 wrote:
      Htchalk wrote:

      I dunno, she's going round using the avatar state to threaten a property developer. I personally don't think that shows maturity or wisdom.

      Why not? Roku used the Avatar State to threaten Sozin, Kyoshi used it to threaten the Earth King, Korra used it to threaten a greedy corporate dick who wanted to defile and ravage the home of the spirits. Heck, if I were Korra, I would have taken that property deed of his and shoved it up his ass where it belongs. lol. But seriously, Korra had every right to get that guy to back off.

      Yeah, but Sozin was Hitler and Chin was Genghis Khan. That's not really comparable to a real estate mogul, even if he is trying to build a multi-storey car park on top of magical Stonehenge, because the real estate mogul can be dealt with through legal channels, where Sozin and Chin can't be. Korra basically pulled a gun on the poor guy when she's meant to be a proponent of peace and order.

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    • Htchalk wrote:

      Yeah, but Sozin was Hitler and Chin was Genghis Khan. That's not really comparable to a real estate mogul, even if he is trying to build a multi-storey car park on top of magical Stonehenge, because the real estate mogul can be dealt with through legal channels, where Sozin and Chin can't be. Korra basically pulled a gun on the poor guy when she's meant to be a proponent of peace and order.

      And that business mogul is Donald Trump. And no, he doesn't have legal claims over it anymore because now it belongs to the spirits. And why should they give a damn about a piece of paper? Poor guy? He's the worst type of capitalist you can find in the Avatarverse. He intends to colonize a sacred land, and without trying to sound too political here, what he's doing is kind of like Nestlé does. Throwing people out of their homes and privatizing water sources for their own personal corporate benefit. Yes, Korra is meant to maintain peace and balance, which is why she opposed the man who sought to disrupt the balance. Because if what's-his-name would have had it his way, the spirits would have gone to their darker sides and unleashed their wrath upon the entire city.

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    • Thobbi1 wrote:
      Htchalk wrote:

      Yeah, but Sozin was Hitler and Chin was Genghis Khan. That's not really comparable to a real estate mogul, even if he is trying to build a multi-storey car park on top of magical Stonehenge, because the real estate mogul can be dealt with through legal channels, where Sozin and Chin can't be. Korra basically pulled a gun on the poor guy when she's meant to be a proponent of peace and order.

      And that business mogul is Donald Trump. And no, he doesn't have legal claims over it anymore because now it belongs to the spirits. And why should they give a damn about a piece of paper? Poor guy? He's the worst type of capitalist you can find in the Avatarverse. He intends to colonize a sacred land, and without trying to sound too political here, what he's doing is kind of like Nestlé does. Throwing people out of their homes and privatizing water sources for their own personal corporate benefit. Yes, Korra is meant to maintain peace and balance, which is why she opposed the man who sought to disrupt the balance. Because if what's-his-name would have had it his way, the spirits would have gone to their darker sides and unleashed their wrath upon the entire city.

      So you would advocate pulling a gun on the CEO of Nestle and screaming "DO YOU WANT TO DIE?" while dry firing into his face? I'm not saying the dude was in the right here, far from it, but Korra could have resolved the situation by slipping the guy a fat stack of satobucks for his deeds to the land, and he wouldn't have felt screwed over. She didn't even try negotiation, just straight to avatar state.

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    • Htchalk wrote:

      So you would advocate pulling a gun on the CEO of Nestle and screaming "DO YOU WANT TO DIE?" while dry firing into his face? I'm not saying the dude was in the right here, far from it, but Korra could have resolved the situation by slipping the guy a fat stack of satobucks for his deeds to the land, and he wouldn't have felt screwed over. She didn't even try negotiation, just straight to avatar state.

      She did try that. She tried to convince the president to purchase the land from him. But he was too busy making propagandas (I will riot if Zhu Li doesn't run for president, Raiko is such a dick XD). But the main problem was that Keum couldn't get it into his head that this land was no longer his property. So technically he didn't even have the right to order anyone to leave it.

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    • I agree with Thobbi, you saw what happened at the end of Turf Wars, didn't you? With the angry Spirits invading? That's just a taste of what Korra was trying to prevent. If the guy doesn't care about the chaos he's likely to cause so long as he can make a quick buck, threatening him becomes the only recourse. He clearly was not open for negotiations, as he was still barking orders even when the Spirits themselves told him they would not approve of him invading THEIR land--because those deeds surely do not cover whatever is on the other side of the portal.

      Even supposing I agreed she should be obligated to essentially bribe him so he won't disrupt the balance, there's no way that Korra has the money to offset how much profit whatever that guy's name was expects to make, & Raiko won't help. I don't know whether or not Asami could do something, she hasn't commented on it yet.

      I will close with this: Aang is not the litmus test for what an Avatar is supposed to be. Avatars use force & intimidation for the greater good all the dig-darn time. Korra's use of the Avatar State was not atypical.

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    • Thobbi1 wrote:

      She did try that. She tried to convince the president to purchase the land from him. But he was too busy making propagandas (I will riot if Zhu Li doesn't run for president, Raiko is such a dick XD). But the main problem was that Keum couldn't get it into his head that this land was no longer his property. So technically he didn't even have the right to order anyone to leave it.

      I think Zhu Li for president is confirmed.

      I for one am excited at the prospect of Varrick as First Gentleman!

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    • Thobbi1 wrote:

      And that business mogul is Donald Trump.

      We were all thinking it.
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    • Deist Zealot wrote:

      Thobbi1 wrote:

      And that business mogul is Donald Trump.

      We were all thinking it.

      I considered it, but I don't think the parallels are there anymore. They would have been in the 90s, but not now. Trump is more than a real estate mogul now, he's a reality TV star and also president.

      If anyone in the Korraverse is Trump, it's Varrick or Asami.

      ETA: or possibly Raiko

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    • No. Asami is the opposite of Trump. If anything, she's more like Bruce Wayne that doesn't have psychological issues and Varrick is basically Howard Hughes. And Raiko is more like the Avatar version of Ronald Reagan.

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    • Htchalk wrote:
      I considered it, but I don't think the parallels are there anymore. They would have been in the 90s, but not now. Trump is more than a real estate mogul now, he's a reality TV star and also president.

      All that means is that the United Republic will be in serious trouble if Keum ever goes into politics.

      If anyone in the Korraverse is Trump, it's Varrick or Asami.

      ETA: or possibly Raiko

      Thobbi1 already broke down why none of those comparisons work (and why the Asami comparison is downright bass-ackwards).  Hell, Keum even looks kind of like the bastard.

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    • No. Asami is the opposite of Trump. If anything, she's more like Bruce Wayne

      Dangling Varrick from a roof, "I swear to Mrs. Beaks, I don't know who's been stealing from your company!" "SWEAR TO ME!"

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    • Asami is a badass-normal inventor philanthropist genius; I think that makes her Doc Savage.  (Well, except the part where she doesn't swear off romance on the ground that someone would use her love interest to get to her.  Then again: her love interest is a quite literal demigoddess.)

      And while she didn't dangle Varrick from a roof, she did quite literally twist his arm.  It was emotionally satisfying.

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    • Don't remember it. Did she scream, "WHEREARETHEY?!" as she did so?

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    • Thobbi1 wrote: No. Asami is the opposite of Trump. If anything, she's more like Bruce Wayne that doesn't have psychological issues and Varrick is basically Howard Hughes. And Raiko is more like the Avatar version of Ronald Reagan.

      That makes sense, I dislike Asami and Batwayne for pretty much the same reasons. Think I might just dislike characters who inherited all their wealth. Also, do we know for sure that Trump doesn't dress up in a black leather suit and fight crime on the weekends when everyone thinks he is playing golf?

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    • I don't like that particular trait, and don't think it's anywhere near as benign as fanbases and mainstream culture in general seem to believe that it is.  Nonetheless, it's not the sort of trait that makes me dislike a character unless their behavior renders them unsympathetic for directly-related reasons.

      As for the rest: he's too lazy.  Dude literally believes that physical exertion saps your chi or something.  Not to mention, far too vain; he might snag his toupee or smear his spray-tanner or something.  And too self-absorbed; even if he didn't fail at it (which would hurt his giant soap-bubble ego), it might benefit someone other than himself.

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    • I don't hold inheriting wealth against a character because, if you ask me, that's more a systemic issue than an issue with that character. I think it matters more what they do with it. That said, there's also this weird thing about presenting any wealthy character as either totally evil beyond all reason, or some perfect saint, even if they don't actually do anything helpful with their money.

      Every Batman story is different, but there are a lot where he doesn't really do anything actually constructive with his wealth, except occasionally toss a charity or orphanage some cash, & half of the time that's part of his cover. Also, he still has enough to embezzle from his own company & build himself a fucking bat space station complete with shuttle, so how much is he really putting himself out there?

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    • I'd say that qualifies Asami (who rebuilt the entire infrastructure of the city and seems poised to do it again) as better than Batman, then.  I'm sticking with my Doc Savage comparison.

      And she didn't scream anything—just told him to not even think about double-crossing her again.

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    • She'd be better than Batman if she also screamed herself into memedom.

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    • Re: me disliking characters with inherited wealth- I accept this is an irrational thing on my part, and it has more to do with the massive chip on my shoulder than any proper reason. (I grew up water-for-supper poor, and ended up at a university with a load of legacy kids, and their entitlement made me seethe). I also love Varrick and Hiroshi more than I maybe should, because they are self-made.

      But yeah, LoK could have dealt with class and inequality way better than it actually did, I can deal with that.

      And I have read more than one fic where Asami is secretly some sort of masked vigilante, just saying.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Don't remember it. Did she scream, "WHEREARETHEY?!" as she did so?

      All the members of the Krew can be their own Batman: Mako is the Ben Affleck Batman, Korra is the Christian Bale Batman, Asami is the Kevin Conroy Batman and Bolin is the Adam West Batman (and Pabu is the Burt Ward Robin). lol

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    • Thobbi1 wrote: Bolin is the Adam West Batman (and Pabu is the Burt Ward Robin). lol

      Nuktuk is Adam West Batman. Bolin is Adam West Adam West.

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    • Htchalk wrote:
      Re: me disliking characters with inherited wealth- I accept this is an irrational thing on my part, and it has more to do with the massive chip on my shoulder than any proper reason. (I grew up water-for-supper poor, and ended up at a university with a load of legacy kids, and their entitlement made me seethe).

      No, I entirely understand that.  I've got an issue with people in real life who've never actually known hardship, are convinced that everyone worse off than themselves could just bootstrap their way out of their situation, and generally act like spoilt brats.

      The thing is: out of the two "rich kid" characters we've got in the secondary cast, Opal actually came closer to that than Asami; and "I've never had bad food in my life" is a fairly innocuous example.  Asami...has acted believably sheltered (like when she couldn't eat scavenged soup), and has acted like an Aunt Pennybags; she hasn't been condescending or even flippant (I'd class Opal's remark as flippant).

      I also love Varrick and Hiroshi more than I maybe should, because they are self-made. But yeah, LoK could have dealt with class and inequality way better than it actually did, I can deal with that.

      I seem to recall someone having pointed out that in media, characters with self-made wealth are likely to be treated less sympathetically—possibly because getting ahead in business is associated with ruthlessness and amorality, while inheriting wealth is seen as luck.  And...yeah; LoK kind of fell into that pitfall; Varrick is amoral, Asami (for all that she's got the know-how to take over the company) was just born into the right place at the right time.

      And while I personally don't like either of those characters, it's for other reasons.  For example, I'm willing to attribute my dislike of Hiroshi almost entirely to "abusive parents can fuck off and vanish."  (As for Varrick: I went over why I don't like him in another thread.)

      And I have read more than one fic where Asami is secretly some sort of masked vigilante, just saying.

      Was The Night Spirit one of them?  Sucks that it got discontinued, IMO.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:

      No, I entirely understand that.  I've got an issue with people in real life who've never actually known hardship, are convinced that everyone worse off than themselves could just bootstrap their way out of their situation, and generally act like spoilt brats.

      The thing is: out of the two "rich kid" characters we've got in the secondary cast, Opal actually came closer to that than Asami; and "I've never had bad food in my life" is a fairly innocuous example.  Asami...has acted believably sheltered (like when she couldn't eat scavenged soup), and has acted like an Aunt Pennybags; she hasn't been condescending or even flippant (I'd class Opal's remark as flippant).

      I think the Asami incident that stuck with me was her buying an outfit for Mako so he could go on a date with her. On the surface it's kind, but all I could think of was how humiliated I would be if that happened to me. Like "don't worry, all your clothes are trash, let me buy you nicer ones".

      I don't have much to say with regards to the Beifong kids. Opal didn't make a big impression on me as a character, except that it was nice that they paired Bolin off with someone less abusive than Eska.

      I seem to recall someone having pointed out that in media, characters with self-made wealth are likely to be treated less sympathetically—possibly because getting ahead in business is associated with ruthlessness and amorality, while inheriting wealth is seen as luck.  And...yeah; LoK kind of fell into that pitfall; Varrick is amoral, Asami (for all that she's got the know-how to take over the company) was just born into the right place at the right time.

      And while I personally don't like either of those characters, it's for other reasons.  For example, I'm willing to attribute my dislike of Hiroshi almost entirely to "abusive parents can fuck off and vanish."  (As for Varrick: I went over why I don't like him in another thread.)

      My kneejerk response to this was "eh, Hiroshi's not that abusive, he only tried to kill Asami that one time", and I think that goes to show that I don't really have a good baseline for normal parental behaviour, and so can't really comment, haha.

      You don't need to justify your dislike of Varrick to me. Though I might not agree with you, I can see that he has a load of problematic aspects that are valid reasons to dislike him. For what it's worth, I think his relationship with Zhu Li as shown on screen was pretty awful.


      Was The Night Spirit one of them?  Sucks that it got discontinued, IMO.

      There was also one where she had poorly explained platinum bending iirc.

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    • I think the Asami incident that stuck with me was her buying an outfit for Mako so he could go on a date with her. On the surface it's kind, but all I could think of was how humiliated I would be if that happened to me. Like "don't worry, all your clothes are trash, let me buy you nicer ones".

      On the other hand, you'd get to eat at a restaurant you wouldn't normally get to patronize.

      I don't have much to say with regards to the Beifong kids. Opal didn't make a big impression on me as a character, except that it was nice that they paired Bolin off with someone less abusive than Eska.

      I forgot that Opal is rich, not because she "didn't make an impression on me," but because it doesn't get emphasized nearly as much as Asami's wealth.

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    • Htchalk wrote:
      I think the Asami incident that stuck with me was her buying an outfit for Mako so he could go on a date with her. On the surface it's kind, but all I could think of was how humiliated I would be if that happened to me. Like "don't worry, all your clothes are trash, let me buy you nicer ones".

      See, I let that slide because it was in response to Mako outright telling her that he didn't own anything nice enough.  But I think it also falls in-line with one of Asami's more obvious established character flaws at that point (namely, being a people-pleaser; which is also probably why she suggested a super-fancy restaurant, even going so far as to buy Mako a suitable outfit, instead of taking him somewhere more casual).

      I don't have much to say with regards to the Beifong kids. Opal didn't make a big impression on me as a character, except that it was nice that they paired Bolin off with someone less abusive than Eska.

      Opal had some degree of characterization, but they didn't delve too deeply into it (another reason why I hated the short-arc format).  She did, however, act believably sheltered (rich kid, outnumbered sibling, would have been the baby until the twins happened, and initially a nonbender to boot; there's no way she wouldn't be sheltered) in Book 3 (Book 4 is where she took a level in badass and started acting like...well, a Beifong).

      My kneejerk response to this was "eh, Hiroshi's not that abusive, he only tried to kill Asami that one time", and I think that goes to show that I don't really have a good baseline for normal parental behaviour, and so can't really comment, haha.

      Yeah...it would certainly appear that way.

      There was also one where she had poorly explained platinum bending iirc.

      I don't think I've read that one, and am guessing I should be happy about it.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      See, I let that slide because it was in response to Mako outright telling her that he didn't own anything nice enough.  But I think it also falls in-line with one of Asami's more obvious established character flaws at that point (namely, being a people-pleaser; which is also probably why she suggested a super-fancy restaurant, even going so far as to buy Mako a suitable outfit, instead of taking him somewhere more casual).

      Yeah, Asami being a bit too nice at times did seem to be a character flaw of hers (in hindsight). At the time though, I thought she was just acting (Bryke did mention that originally Asami was going to turn traitor but they reworked that part or something. I thought they meant they rewrote only the part where Asami decided not to turn against her father and everything that followed after).

      Opal had some degree of characterization, but they didn't delve too deeply into it (another reason why I hated the short-arc format).  She did, however, act believably sheltered (rich kid, outnumbered sibling, would have been the baby until the twins happened, and initially a nonbender to boot; there's no way she wouldn't be sheltered) in Book 3 (Book 4 is where she took a level in badass and started acting like...well, a Beifong).

      Well, I thought she was acting "like a Beifong" the moment she called Bolin out on his crap and proved herself a natural with her newfound airbending even if she was just a beginner. It did show that for all her sweetness, she still had that Beifong backbone and that she was not to be taken lightly even before she took a level in badass. Though, I do agree in general that Opal isn't really a "stand out character". She has potential but as you pointed out, the show didn't really have the time to work with it. Though as that other person said, thank god that she wasn't like Eska if Bolin had to be paired with her...

      Htchalk Wrote:
      My kneejerk response to this was "eh, Hiroshi's not that abusive, he only tried to kill Asami that one time", and I think that goes to show that I don't really have a good baseline for normal parental behaviour, and so can't really comment, haha.

      Well, book 4 did get me to feel bad for Hiroshi when he sacrificed himself for his daughter and Republic City. As he said, for all his flaws and mistakes, he'd do anything for Republic City and he showed that in the end and he was able to redeem himself in the eyes of his daughter at least. I don't condone what all he's done, but I can appreciate/respect anyone who's genuinely repentant of their sins and actively tries to atone for them.

      There was also one where she had poorly explained platinum bending iirc.

      I'm not sure what that's referring to...and I'm not sure I even want to know...

      Htchalk Wrote:
      I think Zhu Li for president is confirmed. I for one am excited at the prospect of Varrick as First Gentleman!

      I'm personally holding out hope for Poki the Lemur (with Meelo as his advisor). Zhu Li and Varrick if that can't happen works too though. Even better if they all teamed up. Like I said in my review, Republic City would have either absolutely nothing to worry about with them in charge or they would have absolutely everything to worry about with them in charge. There would be no middle ground whatsoever....

      Neo Bahamut Wrote:
      I will close with this: Aang is not the litmus test for what an Avatar is supposed to be. Avatars use force & intimidation for the greater good all the dig-darn time. Korra's use of the Avatar State was not atypical.

      This.

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    • HolyDragon2808 wrote:
      Well, I thought she was acting "like a Beifong" the moment she called Bolin out on his crap and proved herself a natural with her newfound airbending even if she was just a beginner. It did show that for all her sweetness, she still had that Beifong backbone and that she was not to be taken lightly even before she took a level in badass. Though, I do agree in general that Opal isn't really a "stand out character". She has potential but as you pointed out, the show didn't really have the time to work with it. Though as that other person said, thank god that she wasn't like Eska if Bolin had to be paired with her...

      Don't get me wrong; I certainly do not agree with certain Beska holdouts' assessment of Opal as a "wimp."  (Hell, I actually like her and think that she and Bolin are cute together—even if P'heer did set the het bar unreasonably high in my estimation.)

      But in Book 3, she was self-effacing despite her natural talent; and even when she took Bo down a peg, she was gentle about it.  (And then, she got ambushed by Ming-Hua in "The Ultimatum," and proceeded to squall like a kitten, which is when the "wimp" script really started spreading like a bad cold—because who cares about the "ambushed" and "Ming-Hua" parts of that equation...right?  But I digress.) 

      By Book 4, she'd taken on a decidedly harder edge along with the level in badass. But that, admittedly, could be attributed—at least in part—to there being a war on, things being strained between her and Bo, and just the fact that she was older.

      Well, book 4 did get me to feel bad for Hiroshi when he sacrificed himself for his daughter and Republic City. As he said, for all his flaws and mistakes, he'd do anything for Republic City and he showed that in the end and he was able to redeem himself in the eyes of his daughter at least. I don't condone what all he's done, but I can appreciate/respect anyone who's genuinely repentant of their sins and actively tries to atone for them.

      Yeah...still not fond of him; but the fact that he went down protecting his daughter (and otherwise generally doing his damnedest to redeem himself) gives him some cred.

      ...although you've kind of got to wonder if he knew that Asami was in love with the Avatar, and how he took it.

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    • ...although you've kind of got to wonder if he knew that Asami was in love with the Avatar, and how he took it.

      Korra isn't a street rat with connections to the triads, so she might even come out ahead of Mako in the Hiroshi bowl. That's a... low bar, though. I can see him being angry enough about it that Asami would cut him off again.

      (Hell, I actually like her and think that she and Bolin are cute together—even if P'heer did set the het bar unreasonably high in my estimation.)

      I like how P'heer aren't married because they don't need the state to legitimise their love. Also there is a sad dearth of P'heer fics, I have no idea why.

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    • Htchalk wrote:
      Korra isn't a street rat with connections to the triads, so she might even come out ahead of Mako in the Hiroshi bowl. That's a... low bar, though. I can see him being angry enough about it that Asami would cut him off again.

      I could see that. Though going with his theme of redemption in Book 4, and seeing as Korrasami aired on a Y-7 rated show, if such a conversation happened between Hiroshi and Asami, I think he would (assuming he still harbored a prejudice against benders at this point) at least be able to see past his bender prejudice to ensure Asami was happy even if he didn't agree or understand it (and the conversation could be coded for how some families who struggle with their children in same sex relationships but won't disown them for it and still love them might say).

      He would also possibly acknowledge that the Avatar was the one who took Asami in when he was exposed and she had no where else to go (remember Korra was the one who extended the offer for Asami along with the bending brothers to stay on Air Temple Island.

      I could be giving him too much credit, but I never really got "abusive jerk" vibes from Hiroshi as a character altogether. He definitely had moments of it (betraying and then later trying to kill his own daughter in a fit of rage and supplying an anti bending movement definitely qualifies) but he's definitely not up there with Ozai surely. The story did make a point to show us that Hiroshi was a loving parent to Asami even after losing his wife before his Equalist involvement was made public (and he made a point to keep her out of it for as long as possible so I think some part of him knew he was wrong and that Yasuko (Asami's mother) would not have approved of his actions.) and his anger is born more out of grief that drove him over the edge rather than him just being an evil prick like Ozai.

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    • Htchalk wrote:
      Korra isn't a street rat with connections to the triads, so she might even come out ahead of Mako in the Hiroshi bowl. That's a... low bar, though. I can see him being angry enough about it that Asami would cut him off again.

      His issues with Mako were as much because he was a firebender as because he was a "street rat" or had Triad connections.  Hell, there's no word on him even knowing about the Triad connections.

      I like how P'heer aren't married because they don't need the state to legitimise their love. Also there is a sad dearth of P'heer fics, I have no idea why.

      And in light of their being anarchists, it makes perfect sense. 

      Seconded on the dearth of fics. (If you aren't already following Lost and Found and the Hybridization and For Want Of... series, I recommend them.  Ditto anything by RelmA/Relmarrowny.)

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