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  • I think, because Su has this 'people can change' attitude and Kuvira was a longtime friend of her, she could forgive Kuvira, when she really regreds her mistakes.

    Also when Kuvira is imprisoned in Zaofu she might be freed by Su then.

    What do you think?

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    • Hmm, I could see partial forgiveness like how Asami struggles to forgive her father, but I highly doubt she'd ever willingly set her free. I could see Su coming to visit, maybe having a cup a tea together after years have past, but it'd be slow... Again, almost exactly like Asami and Hiroshi.

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    • I agree that, as open-minded as she is generally, Suyin is probably going to have a great deal of difficulty, at least initially, forgiving Kuvira for everything she did. And personally, in her situation, I'd be the same.

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    • I don't recommend it.

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    • Well, either way, we won't get to see that (or at least not anytime soon).

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    • Well, it's definitely going to take time for her to forgive her, considering that she ravaged Republic City, imprisoned and eliminated countless people who opposed her regime and put her own family in danger. But then again, Kuvira willingly surrendered after Korra saved her life. So that should show her that she does have redeeming qualities.

      And Suyin already forgave Baatar jr. for his involvement and loyalty to Kuvira. While that may be because he's her son, Su was just as much a mother to Kuvira as she was to Baatar. So I don't see why it couldn't happen one day.

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    • Giving up when you've pretty much already lost is nothing to be applauded for. Also, while she talks about taking in Suyin, they don't really seem to be all that close.

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    • I seem to recall Suyin saying "She was more than my protegé. She was like a daughter to me." How does that not imply they had a mother/daughter-like relationship before Kuvira left Zaofu? And I'm pretty sure that Kuvira didn't just give up because she lost the battle, but also because she came to her senses. Otherwise she wouldn't have swallowed her pride by apologizing to Su and her family and accepted whatever punishment she would receive and declaring that she owes her life to Korra. Looks like redeeming qualities to me. Unless there's a chance we'd ever get to see this kind of humility from the likes of Ozai, Azula, Amon or Zaheer.

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    • You know the phrase "actions speak louder than words"? She's not introduced as part of the family, Suyin never loses faith in Bataar Jr. but tries to kill Kuvira, there's no scenes of them being emotionally intimate...in what way is Suyin's "like part of the family" not just empty words?

      "I'm sorry" is for when you accidentally step on someone's foot, not when you destroy a city & build concentration camps. There's no need to rush to absolve heinous war criminals because they did the bare minimum. Oh, & for the record, Bataar Jr. shouldn't be getting off either, he was complicit with every one of Kuvira's crimes up until she betrayed him. I don't care whose son he is.

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    • No. "I'm sorry" is when you regret your actions, accidental or otherwise. I think you're being in denial and a bit biased. And why would Suyin's dialogue about Kuvira being like a daughter to her just be empty words (Not to mention that Su had no reason to lie or exaggerate about it)? Especially in a scene dedicated on expanding her character further? You're not making any sense. Are you sure you're not just saying this because of your dislike of Kuvira and Baatar or something? It sure sounds like it.

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    • No. "I'm sorry" is when you regret your actions, accidental or otherwise.

      It's called hyperbole. Obviously, apologies are warranted for more than just that 1 situation I named, the point is to highlight the absurdity that you're acting like war crimes are a thing that should just be brushed off if they feeeel baaaad maaaaan.

      I think you're being in denial and a bit biased.

      I'm not the one defending a war criminal because "well, she apologized."

      And why would Suyin's dialogue about Kuvira being like a daughter to her just be empty words (Not to mention that Su had no reason to lie or exaggerate about it)? Especially in a scene dedicated on expanding her character further? You're not making any sense. Are you sure you're not just saying this because of your dislike of Kuvira and Baatar or something? It sure sounds like it.

      You could try reading. I gave several examples of how she treats Kuvira differently from her actual family. Wow, my bias must be pretty goddamn strong if it can affect what actually happens in the show. Oh wait, that's not bias, that's evidence.

      Not that it matters, as even if you weren't absurdly applying the word "bias" where it's not applicable, that would still be an ad hominem. Playing dumb & pretending not to see the points I actually made doesn't magically become a valid argument just because you said the B-word.

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    • How am I defending a war criminal? Because I acknowledged that Suyin adopted Kuvira as her daughter and because I acknowledged that Kuvira regretted her actions in the end? Do you even hear yourself?

      "Obviously, apologies are warranted for more than just that 1 situation I named, the point is to highlight the absurdity that you're acting like war crimes are a thing that should just be brushed off if they feeeel baaaad maaaaan."

      Oh, okay. So by that logic, Zuko's apology to Iroh and Team Avatar were just empty words because he committed crimes like trying to capture Aang, ravaging a village, hiring an assassin and helping Azula conquering the Earth Kingdom and betraying the man who was the closest thing he had to a father. Are you trying to be ignorant or just trolling? Also, you need to read before you comment. Because I never said that Kuvira's actions were justified or could be brushed off because she apologized, I simply acknowledged that she did apologize and the fact that she regretted her actions shows that she has redeeming qualities. Not that she shouldn't be thrown in jail because she apologized.

      "You could try reading. I gave several examples of how she treats Kuvira differently from her actual family. Wow, my bias must be pretty goddamn strong if it can affect what actually happens in the show. Oh wait, that's not bias, that's evidence." No you didn't. All you did was pointing out that she forgave Baatar but didn't forgive Kuvira. And now you're just being obnoxious about it and in denial about established facts from the show itself just because you don't like a certain character. "Playing dumb & pretending not to see the points I actually made"You mean like what you've been doing? So what now? Are you going to post a wall of text with more opinion-based rants, obnoxious, arrogant attitude and denial for the next weeks to come?

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    • But you know what? I don't have time for your nonsense. If you want to keep on ranting with your bias and half-baked arguments, go ahead, but I have better things to do.

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    • Oh, okay. So by that logic, Zuko's apology to Iroh and Team Avatar were just empty words

      Whether or not her apology is "genuine" isn't the point, there's some shit "I'm sorry" doesn't cover. Zuko never did anything so bad that he couldn't make it right again.

      Also, you need to read before you comment. Because I never said that Kuvira's actions were justified or could be brushed off because she apologized

      I did. Once. I'd forgotten you posted before. Now, what's your excuse? Why did you choose to respond to "she did nothing to be applauded for" with some spiel about her "redeeming qualities"? Or, any of the numerous times I said that "I'm sorry" doesn't cover war crimes, you chose to respond with "you're in denial"?

      No you didn't. All you did was pointing out that she forgave Baatar but didn't forgive Kuvira.

      "You didn't show an example of them being treated differently, just this example of them being treated differently for the same thing."

      And now you're just being obnoxious

      Well, yeah, that's my response to being faced with absurdity, like Argument ad NOU, or this notion that a quote is a replacement for & supersedes actual events.

      So what now? Are you going to post a wall of text with more opinion-based rants, obnoxious, arrogant attitude and denial for the next weeks to come?

      Well, normally I'd rag on you for getting so bent out of shape at being argued against, & calling everything you don't like "denial," but this isn't the best time.

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    • Kuvira can rot on a barge, IMO.

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    • Valer22 wrote:
      I seem to recall Suyin saying "She was more than my protegé. She was like a daughter to me." How does that not imply they had a mother/daughter-like relationship before Kuvira left Zaofu? And I'm pretty sure that Kuvira didn't just give up because she lost the battle, but also because she came to her senses. Otherwise she wouldn't have swallowed her pride by apologizing to Su and her family and accepted whatever punishment she would receive and declaring that she owes her life to Korra. 

      My thoughts exactly. They are family, so the least Su can do is to consider forgiving her at some point.

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    • I agree on that she will forgive her when she's truly sorry and regrets, because Su has that "Everyone Can Change" attitude and because she knows Kuviras childhood, but I actually think that Su will have the hardest time forgiving her for the fact that she used Bataar Jr. and their love to convince him to join her and turn her back on her loved one. 

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    • Hope suyin forgives kuriva

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    • Well given all that Su has endured at the hands of Kuvira and her regime I can't see Kuvira being forgiven easily. Not to mention as an earthbender Su does have a stubborn streak. That being said I find it hard to believe that a person as open hearted as Su would never forgive Kuvira. I agree with some of the others. It would take either facing a great threat together or Kuvira consistently demonstrating that she regrets and wishes to atone for her actions. Kuvira should not forgive herself, for if she did it would only raise the specter of repeating the same mistake, but she is a strong, determined, and undeniably resourceful person. If she can reconcile herself with what she's done she could become as strong a force for peace as Korra (given that Korra herself and Kuvira as being very much alike). Who knows, if Kuvira and Korra teamed up however I can scarcely imagine that anything or anyone could stop them.

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    • Personally, within time I believe that somebody as open-minded as Su would be willing to try to move forward. However difficult that may be. If she were more like Lin however, it would be far more difficult for her to forgive.

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    • I reckon it'll take a very long time, or a great deal of effort on Kuvira's part, before Su even considers forgiving her, especially given how Su feels about betrayal.

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    • I saw the preview of the new comic and it seems like the opposite and that Kuvira is the one who wanted to move forward and Su is refusig to forgive her. One can admit that all Kuvira has done is unforgiveable.

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    • Well,yeah; Suyin has a giant raw spot regarding betrayal.  Not to mention a petty streak.  Also, this is Eww-vira we're talking about.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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