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  • I found it really odd that Azula's mental condition would just "disappear" after she found her "destiny". Mental illnesses don't go away easily, much less in a few months. I personally theorize that she must have gotten her hands on Avatar's verison of medication pills, some herbs or something such that calm down her symptons. Apparently, Azula managed to befriend some of the mental patients at the mental asylum. But they seem pretty sane from the scenes we see of them in Smoke & Shadow. That's really strange. Let's say I were to believe that Azula cured her mental illness through finding her destiny. What about the others? They were put in the mental asylum for a reason. They seem so normal and calm, though. I also find it quite eerie when Azula said to Zuko "But eventually, you will become just like me". Just like me as in just as ruthless and intimidating? Or just like me as in just as bakstabbed and mentally ill?  I always suspected that Azula's loathed Zuko for putting her in that looney bin and it felt confirmed after she described it as "that horrible institution". Either way, I just have a really hard to believing that she only wants Zuko to rule through fear. To be the Fire Lord she thought she was meant to be. What's she to gain from all this? The Azula that we all know never does anything unless she it benefits her for her endless quest to achieve power or amuses her. I do believe that she really did give up on her quest for the throne, but not for the reasons she said. Dear god, Smoke & Shadow Part 3 left me with more questions than answers.

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    • DarkNet1
      DarkNet1 removed this reply because:
      I didn't intend to post this.
      01:24, March 24, 2016
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    • I've said before, but the whole thing doesn't make any sense. We're led to believe that she's "gotten better," but her rants are just as deluded & illogical as before. But either way, it's a strange & nonsensical progression from hallucinations to hiding out in the woods to Scooby Doo villain. It's almost like Gene Yang said to himself, "She's crazy, I don't have to explain shit."

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    • Azula is known to lie a lot and be very good at doing so, but I don't think she was lying about the voices in her head finally shutting up. I mean, if they didn't, Azula would've looked crazy like in the Search trilogy. Plus, we probably would have seen her talking to a hallucination of her mother or even refer to her mother, but she didn't at all.

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    • She still has the same unfocused gaze in a lot of scenes, as if she's not looking at whom she's talking to, but something that's not really there.

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    • NikkitaThe Metahuman wrote:
      Azula is known to lie a lot and be very good at doing so, but I don't think she was lying about the voices in her head finally shutting up. I mean, if they didn't, Azula would've looked crazy like in the Search trilogy. Plus, we probably would have seen her talking to a hallucination of her mother or even refer to her mother, but she didn't at all.

      I don't think she was lying about that, either. But she gets this crazed look in her eyes whenever she's angry or irritated.

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    • DarkNet1 wrote:

      I don't think she was lying about that, either. But she gets this crazed look in her eye when she's angry or irriated. 


      I suppose you're right on that. Perhaps she's just started on the path to sanity. She may have helped Zuko take down the NOS and accept not being the firelord, but thinking that Zuko should rule with fear doesn't sound sane to me.

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    • NikkitaThe Metahuman wrote:
      DarkNet1 wrote:

      I don't think she was lying about that, either. But she gets this crazed look in her eye when she's angry or irriated. 


      I suppose you're right on that. Perhaps she's just started on the path to sanity. She may have helped Zuko take down the NOS and accept not being the firelord, but thinking that Zuko should rule with fear doesn't sound sane to me.

      Now that I think about it, it really doesn't. This line she said when replying to Zuko's comment on how she should just accept that she will never ever get the throne also sounds pretty insane to me."Accept it? I've embraced it!"  The way she says it, with her eyes widen and dark lines underneath, she sounds pyschotic.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      She still has the same unfocused gaze in a lot of scenes, as if she's not looking at whom she's talking to, but something that's not really there.

      Can you give some examples of these moments? I can't recall any scenes with her in S&S3 with what you described.

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    • The one you just mentioned. When she's yelling at Ukano, her eyes also don't appear to be focused on him (in terms of her pupils). Those are the main examples I recall.

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    • I don't know what to think about the way Azula got rid of her mental illness. I think she didn't really manage to get rid of it completely even if she isn't listening voices inside her head anymore, but in any case the way it is being portrayed is weird. That said, I don't mind it as much because I really disliked the whole madness thing to begin with. It was boring and I'm glad they are beginning to slowly move away from it, even if it is somewhat questionable. At the very least we won't waste more panels with Azula talking with an hallucination of her mother. *laughs*


      As for why she is playing Sith Lord and trying to corrupt her brother, who knows. The greatest mystery here is that she didn't give her reasons for trying to corrupt Zuko. She mentioned something about becoming the Fire Lord in an indirect way, but it doesn't appear to be her reason for all this. While her whole plan doesn't appear to make any sense I think this is because we lack information. We don't know what happened with Azula between end of The Search and beginning of Smoke and Shadow, maybe that would clarify things. However, Azula could be lying about what she is planning.

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    • Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      I don't know what to think about the way Azula got rid of her mental illness. I think she didn't really manage to get rid of it completely even if she isn't listening voices inside her head anymore, but in any case the way it is being portrayed is weird. That said, I don't mind it as much because I really disliked the whole madness thing to begin with. It was boring and I'm glad they are beginning to slowly move away from it, even if it is somewhat questionable. At the very least we won't waste more panels with Azula talking with an hallucination of her mother. *laughs*


      As for why she is playing Sith Lord and trying to corrupt her brother, who knows. The greatest mystery here is that she didn't give her reasons for trying to corrupt Zuko. She mentioned something about becoming the Fire Lord in an indirect way, but it doesn't appear to be her reason for all this. While her whole plan doesn't appear to make any sense I think this is because we lack information. We don't know what happened with Azula between end of The Search and beginning of Smoke and Shadow, maybe that would clarify things. However, Azula could be lying about what she is planning.

      Yeah, that's the confusing part. What the hell happened between The Search and Smoke & Shadow to her? Apparently, she enough time and sanity in between the few months on her own to bust out some of her allies from the instiution. She even promised them something else besides freedom. 

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    • That's the other thing I don't get: The Fire Warriors.

      First of all, a lot of them did not look female, but whatever. How & why did a mental institution (if that is indeed what Azula is referring to) have so many oddly coherent people who also happen to be capable martial artists & why did they all decide to follow Azula?

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      That's the other thing I don't get: The Fire Warriors.

      First of all, a lot of them did not look female, but whatever. How & why did a mental institution (if that is indeed what Azula is referring to) have so many oddly coherent people who also happen to be capable martial artists & why did they all decide to follow Azula?

      Well, if they were deemed insane and dangerous enough to be held in a secret asylum and be considered by Azula capable enough to assist her in her goal, they probably had some tricks up their sleeves. I was also confused at first when Azula called her team "ladies". I thought only two of them were female. I guess you learn something new everyday.

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    • Wait a minute, can we be certain all of them came from the same place? Azula only said she rescued Zirin from it, not all the others. Maybe some of the girls weren't part of the mental institution. It would make more sense if some of them were just mercenaries than all of them coming from a mental institution. As Neo Bahamut said, it is REALLY weird that a mental institution would have so many capable martial artists.

      Smoke and Shadow did bring more mysteries than answers. Maybe we will get all the answers by 2018. Maybe.

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    • Well, to be fair, who gets involuntarily committed is highly dependent on the culture. In this day & age, people like that would be extremely unlikely to be able to carry out a convoluted plan like this, because it basically requires being unable to inhibit destructive impulses. But standards have changed a lot, in the 50's, perhaps even the 70's, they were not as stringent.

      EDIT: Ninja'd. I don't really see why the line would be given except to explain to us where Azula got these people.

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    • Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      Wait a minute, can we be certain all of them came from the same place? Azula only said she rescued Zirin from it, not all the others. Maybe some of the girls weren't part of the mental institution. It would make more sense if some of them were just mercenaries than all of them coming from a mental institution. As Neo Bahamut said, it is REALLY weird that a mental institution would have so many capable martial artists.

      Smoke and Shadow did bring more mysteries than answers. Maybe we will get all the answers by 2018. Maybe.

      No, we can't be certain, but it's incredibly likely that Azula got them all from the same place. First, about your comment about them merceneries, where would she get the money to pay them with? She isn't a Crowned Princess anymore and I'm pretty sure she didn't have hidden gold in pocket. Well, like 87% sure. Where else besides the mental institution could Azula possibly recruit allies? A tavern? Maybe met one of them also camping out in the woods? It's sounds pretty believable to me that she broke out some of her fellow mental patients that she had probably bonded with through the hatred of the mental instutition. We better get some answers in late 2017. There's only so much I can wait through.

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    • DarkNet1 wrote:
      Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      Wait a minute, can we be certain all of them came from the same place? Azula only said she rescued Zirin from it, not all the others. Maybe some of the girls weren't part of the mental institution. It would make more sense if some of them were just mercenaries than all of them coming from a mental institution. As Neo Bahamut said, it is REALLY weird that a mental institution would have so many capable martial artists.

      Smoke and Shadow did bring more mysteries than answers. Maybe we will get all the answers by 2018. Maybe.

      No, we can't be certain but it's incredibly likely that Azula got them all from the same place. First, about your comment about them merceneries, where would she get the money to pay them with? She isn't a Crowned Princess anymore and I'm pretty sure she didn't have hidden gold in pocket. Well, like 87% sure. Where else besides the mental institution could Azula possibly recruit allies? A tavern? Maybe met one of them also camping out in the woods? It's sounds pretty believable to me that she busted some of her fellow mental patients that she had probably bonded with through the hatred of that place. We better get some answers in late 2017. There's only so much I can wait through.

      I didn't give much thought about them being mercenaries, forgot they would require payment.

      Still, why no one reported about a group of girls escaping a mental institution? Or maybe they did, but the story didn't tell us. Whatever, I guess.

      Mental institution or not, what I sort would like to see is more of Azula's relationship with her "sisters". I think they might be more loyal than Ty Lee and Mai, considering it appears they have a debt with Azula and share goals. They don't look like they are being controlled by fear, like Ty Lee and Mai were.

      As for the answers, I want to be optimistic and say we might get them in late 2017, but I'm doubtful because the pacing of the comics is quite slow lately.

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    • Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      DarkNet1 wrote:
      Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      Wait a minute, can we be certain all of them came from the same place? Azula only said she rescued Zirin from it, not all the others. Maybe some of the girls weren't part of the mental institution. It would make more sense if some of them were just mercenaries than all of them coming from a mental institution. As Neo Bahamut said, it is REALLY weird that a mental institution would have so many capable martial artists.

      Smoke and Shadow did bring more mysteries than answers. Maybe we will get all the answers by 2018. Maybe.

      No, we can't be certain but it's incredibly likely that Azula got them all from the same place. First, about your comment about them merceneries, where would she get the money to pay them with? She isn't a Crowned Princess anymore and I'm pretty sure she didn't have hidden gold in pocket. Well, like 87% sure. Where else besides the mental institution could Azula possibly recruit allies? A tavern? Maybe met one of them also camping out in the woods? It's sounds pretty believable to me that she busted some of her fellow mental patients that she had probably bonded with through the hatred of that place. We better get some answers in late 2017. There's only so much I can wait through.
      I didn't give much thought about them being mercenaries, forgot they would require payment.

      Still, why no one reported about a group of girls escaping a mental institution? Or maybe they did, but the story didn't tell us. Whatever, I guess.

      Mental institution or not, what I sort would like to see is more of Azula's relationship with her "sisters". I think they might be more loyal than Ty Lee and Mai, considering it appears they have a debt with Azula and share goals. They don't look like they are being controlled by fear, like Ty Lee and Mai were.

      As for the answers, I want to be optimistic and say we might get them in late 2017, but I'm doubtful because the pacing of the comics is quite slow lately.

      I'm thinking Azula and her ladies (I really do not want to call them "Fire Warriors") probably burnt down the institution and killed the authorities and security force. Otherwise, why wouldn't this have been reported to Zuko? I get that he has nation to run, but that secret mental institution was probably filled with pretty deadly and dangerous mentally ill criminals based off the fact that he thought it was a great place to hold Azula. People like that are a serious threat to society. 

        Azula most likely decided to give up on the whole "fear is the only reliable way" mindset. Or at least, didn't rely on it as much. I mean, the betrayal of Mai and Ty Lee was a big contribution to her mental breakdown. And it's probably hard to frighten people who've been locked away in the looney bin for frightening and pyschotic crimes. I really do want to hear their backstories, though. I also want to know if the ones that didn't appear with Azula in the end of S&S3 were captured or not.

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    • We always know in the comics that her mental side is showing whenever she gets dark circles around her eyes, a possible zoom-in on the face, maybe through in a little pupil dilation for good measure, and top it all of with that cherry of the all bold lettering of her dialogue.

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    • I didn't get the impression that the mental institution was secret or high security at all.

      I can't really suggest a "better way" for Azula to have recruited her forces, because I really can't think of ANY way that would be effective, given her circumstances.

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    • Well, it is just her perspective; she could believe her mental issues are gone but they've really just changed.

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    • Just to put this out there, deluded people don't know they're deluded.

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    • IAmNothing712 wrote:
      Just to put this out there, deluded people don't know they're deluded.

      Good point. I hadn't considered that. Maybe she's still insane but she thinks she's cured. Placebo effect, mayhaps? Though that doesn't answer how she can still plan as effectively as she did when she was confirmed sane. 

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    • Because mental illness isn't just 1 thing (side note, "insane" is actually a legal term, not a psychological term), a mild to moderate disorder of mood, delusion, or even hallucinations would not prevent someone from being able to perform goal-directed, logical thought.

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    • We don't exactly know what happened to Azula during her time in the Forgetful Valley; maybe we'll see what happened to her in another comic ark after "The North and South".

      Here's my theory - maybe she's actually doing it for Zuko. She claims that she has accepted that the throne isn't her destiny, maybe she beilves her desitny to be Zuko's ultimate adversary; as she's one of the few in the world who can prove to be a powerful opponet for him. 

      There is a saying (not from the Avatar universe) that a hero is measured by the strenght of his adversary; maybe Azula is going to try and push Zuko to become what she believes to be the Ultimate Firelord, by being his Ultimate Foe. She may even try and tempt him into killing her.

      But that's just a theory.

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    • Azula is unpredictable (to say the least), so who really knows.

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    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Azula is unpredictable (to say the least), so who really knows.

      The only thing predictable about her is that she's unpredictable

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    • It's most likely a lie so that the writers can set up some ultimate conclusion for Azula. You need some sort of villain to get the story going and for the good guys to beat. Oh, and more comics for more sales. Not that I'm complaining.

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      It's most likely a lie so that the writers can set up some ultimate conclusion for Azula. You need some sort of villain to get the story going and for the good guys to beat. Oh, and more comics for more sales. Not that I'm complaining.

      Yeah that's probably it

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    • It's not complicated. To the general public, Azula is still presumed dead and Ursa's fate is still mystery, which continued in TLoK. The events in Smoke and Shadows explain why we can have Azula and Ursa shown in upcoming comics without contradicting TLoK.

      There are other reasons, but kinda "minutiae". -___-

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    • Hasdi wrote:
      It's not complicated. To the general public, Azula is still presumed dead and Ursa's fate is still mystery, which continued in TLoK. The events in Smoke and Shadows explain why we can have Azula and Ursa shown in upcoming comics without contradicting TLoK.

      There are other reasons, but kinda "minutiae". -___-

      What does TLoK having anything to do what this?

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    • ^

      "Gran Gran, I've been reading all about your old adventures. I've been dying to ask you: What happened to Zuko's mom?"
      — Jinora in Welcome to Republic City

      Unless Jinora is referring to another incident with Zuko's mom (which Gene Yang could still write up in the future), we could argue that her disappearance is still a mystery to the general public.

      As it is, Ursa and her family will be in hiding (presumably for the rest of her comic book days) because Azula will always be at large, but no one has yet identified/proven to the public that Azula is back and is the ringleader of the "Fire Warriors". Mai's father is locked up so he can't confirm about Azula either. Crazy, huh? Icon_wtf.gif

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    • Hasdi wrote:
      ^
      "Gran Gran, I've been reading all about your old adventures. I've been dying to ask you: What happened to Zuko's mom?"
      — Jinora in Welcome to Republic City

      Unless Jinora is referring to another incident with Zuko's mom (which Gene Yang could still write up in the future), we could argue that her disappearance is still a mystery to the general public.

      As it is, Ursa and her family will be in hiding (presumably for the rest of her comic book days) because Azula will always be at large, but no one has yet identified/proven to the public that Azula is back and is the ringleader of the "Fire Warriors". Mai's father is locked up so he can't confirm about Azula either. Crazy, huh? Icon_wtf.gif

      What does Azula's mother have to do with this?

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    • Hasdi wrote: It's not complicated. To the general public, Azula is still presumed dead and Ursa's fate is still mystery, which continued in TLoK. The events in Smoke and Shadows explain why we can have Azula and Ursa shown in upcoming comics without contradicting TLoK.

      There are other reasons, but kinda "minutiae". -___-

      Or it could just be that details about Ursa's later life aren't written about a lot. That happens, you know.

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    • Hasdi wrote:
      ^
      "Gran Gran, I've been reading all about your old adventures. I've been dying to ask you: What happened to Zuko's mom?"
      — Jinora in Welcome to Republic City

      Unless Jinora is referring to another incident with Zuko's mom (which Gene Yang could still write up in the future), we could argue that her disappearance is still a mystery to the general public.

      As it is, Ursa and her family will be in hiding (presumably for the rest of her comic book days) because Azula will always be at large, but no one has yet identified/proven to the public that Azula is back and is the ringleader of the "Fire Warriors". Mai's father is locked up so he can't confirm about Azula either. Crazy, huh? Icon_wtf.gif

      Didn't Zuko take her on a tour of the royal capital after the events of the Search, though? Seems like that would attract attention. Jinora could have just not known about Ursa's fate.....or it could have just been an in-joke by the writers due to the fact the Search hadn't bene realeased yet and the answer wasstill up in the air.

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      Didn't Zuko take her on a tour of the royal capital after the events of the Search, though? Seems like that would attract attention.

      It would, but that's according to Iroh in The Rift, yes? Now we know that Iroh has been... untruthful about that. Ursa and her family were heading to the capital but were diverted to secret path by the Kyoshi Warriors. Iroh took Zuko's place to hide the deception.

      Oh, didn't Iroh exposit all this misinformation in front of Toph? Shouldn't her "lie detector" tip her off? Now you know why Gene Yang had that scene where Toph had to place her hand on Satoru to confirm if he is really lying. What else is Iroh not revealing to Toph? Icon_shifty.gif

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    • DarkNet1 wrote:
      Hasdi wrote:
      ^
      "Gran Gran, I've been reading all about your old adventures. I've been dying to ask you: What happened to Zuko's mom?"
      — Jinora in Welcome to Republic City

      Unless Jinora is referring to another incident with Zuko's mom (which Gene Yang could still write up in the future), we could argue that her disappearance is still a mystery to the general public.

      As it is, Ursa and her family will be in hiding (presumably for the rest of her comic book days) because Azula will always be at large, but no one has yet identified/proven to the public that Azula is back and is the ringleader of the "Fire Warriors". Mai's father is locked up so he can't confirm about Azula either. Crazy, huh? Icon_wtf.gif

      What does Azula's mother have to do with this?

      Most likely because mother issues are an important element to Azula's story.

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      DarkNet1 wrote:
      Hasdi wrote:
      ^
      "Gran Gran, I've been reading all about your old adventures. I've been dying to ask you: What happened to Zuko's mom?"
      — Jinora in Welcome to Republic City

      Unless Jinora is referring to another incident with Zuko's mom (which Gene Yang could still write up in the future), we could argue that her disappearance is still a mystery to the general public.

      As it is, Ursa and her family will be in hiding (presumably for the rest of her comic book days) because Azula will always be at large, but no one has yet identified/proven to the public that Azula is back and is the ringleader of the "Fire Warriors". Mai's father is locked up so he can't confirm about Azula either. Crazy, huh? Icon_wtf.gif

      What does Azula's mother have to do with this?
      Most likely because mother issues are an important element to Azula's story.

      But how does that affect Azula possibly lying about her cured mental illness?

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    • Her mental break down is partially tied to her mother, so that relationship being fixed might also truly fix her illness? Or Azula has some plot in the works?

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      Her mental break down is partially tied to her mother, so that relationship being fixed might also truly fix her illness? Or Azula has some plot in the works?

      A part of me really wants to believe that Azula was cured and the other part of me is skeptical of it. Knowing Azula, she probably does have some plot in the works.

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    • ^ For all intents and purposes, Azula is a "ghost". She is to haunt Zuko, as Ursa haunted her during her reign as the Fire Lord. While Ursa wants Azula to be a better Fire Lord, Azula wants Zuko to become a tyrant she wanted to be.

      Azula's vision

      Azula is like Emmanuel Goldstein from the Nineteen Eighty-Four novel. She is an enemy of the state according to the Zuko's admistration (i.e., the English Socialist Party), described as the head of a mysterious organization called Fire Warriors (i.e., "The Brotherhood"), but only seen and heard by Kyoshi Warriors and friends. In the novel, the public doesn't really know if the Goldstein or the Brotherhood actually exists or simply fictitious bogeymen, but

      "The reader may surmise that a political opposition to Big Brother — namely, Goldstein — was psychologically necessary in order to distract, unite and focus the anger of the people of Oceania. Ostensibly, Goldstein serves as a convenient scapegoat for the totalitarian regime in Nineteen Eighty-Four, and justifies its surveillance and elimination of civil liberties."

      Similarly, the rest of the Avatar world doesn't really know is Azula if back, but Zuko justifies his totalitarian policies (on the people of the Fire Nation) due to her covert actions. If she remains hidden long enough, eventually enough people will think that Zuko made it all up to become a tyrant and used her as a convenient scapegoat. That's the "big plan".

      Take that as you will.

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    • Hasdi wrote:
      ^ For all intents and purposes, Azula is a "ghost". She is to haunt Zuko, as Ursa haunted her during her reign as the Fire Lord. While Ursa wants Azula to be a better Fire Lord, Azula wants Zuko to become a tyrant she wanted to be.
      Azula's vision
      Azula is like Emmanuel Goldstein from the Nineteen Eighty-Four novel. She is an enemy of the state according to the Zuko's admistration (i.e., the English Socialist Party), described as the head of a mysterious organization called Fire Warriors (i.e., "The Brotherhood"), but only seen and heard by Kyoshi Warriors and friends. In the novel, the public doesn't really know if the Goldstein or the Brotherhood actually exists or simply fictitious bogeymen, but
      "The reader may surmise that a political opposition to Big Brother — namely, Goldstein — was psychologically necessary in order to distract, unite and focus the anger of the people of Oceania. Ostensibly, Goldstein serves as a convenient scapegoat for the totalitarian regime in Nineteen Eighty-Four, and justifies its surveillance and elimination of civil liberties."

      Similarly, the rest of the Avatar world doesn't really know is Azula if back, but Zuko justifies his totalitarian policies (on the people of the Fire Nation) due to her covert actions. If she remains hidden long enough, eventually enough people will think that Zuko made it all up to become a tyrant and used her as a convenient scapegoat. That's the "big plan".

      Take that as you will.

      Does he actually ever blame his actions because of his sister? I thought he just apologized on how rashly he behaved of the threat of the New Ozai Society?

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    • ^ To his inner circle, he blames her actions. To the public, that remains to be seen. It's interesting that he did not publicly expose Kemurikage as the Fire Warriors lead by Azula, no? Had he taken her bait, it would follow the 1984 scenario. Until then, Azula intends to stay hidden.

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    • Azula's sanity may be gone forever.

      if she finds Hakoda, she might try to scratch his eyes out.

      if she saw the invasion force freed, she mgiht rage and try to fight them in anger.

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    • Hiromichi wrote:
      Azula's sanity may be gone forever.

      if she finds Hakoda, she might try to scratch his eyes out.

      if she saw the invasion force freed, she mgiht rage and try to fight them in anger.

      Why would she try to fight them? 

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    • DarkNet1 wrote:
      Hiromichi wrote:
      Azula's sanity may be gone forever.

      if she finds Hakoda, she might try to scratch his eyes out.

      if she saw the invasion force freed, she mgiht rage and try to fight them in anger.

      Why would she try to fight them? 

      the freedom of the invasion force and Hakoda is all thanks to Team Avatar, and her insanity is all thanks to Mai.

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    • OK what I got from this comic is that Azula is still insane, she is just focusing that insantiy of hers to corrupt Zuko. Now people are probably asking why she want to do this is because she want to bring Zuko down to the same level as her and Ozai,and she knows that she will never be the fire lord, so she is trying to force Zuko to become or act like she would.

      Another theory of my is that the reason why Azula want to corrupt Zuko is to show Ursa that both Zuko and Azula are not different from each other. I feel that even though she focus her insanity to another "goal", Ursa still play a major part in it. Not pitying Azula or anything but being treated different from your brother and being called a "monster" from your own mother can really mess with your mind.

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    • HawaiianDreads wrote:
      OK what I got from this comic is that Azula is still insane, she is just focusing that insantiy of hers to corrupt Zuko. Now people are probably asking why she want to do this is because she want to bring Zuko down to the same level as her and Ozai,and she knows that she will never be the fire lord, so she is trying to force Zuko to become or act like she would.

      Another theory of my is that the reason why Azula want to corrupt Zuko is to show Ursa that both Zuko and Azula are not different from each other. I feel that even though she focus her insanity to another "goal", Ursa still play a major part in it. Not pitying Azula or anything but being treated different from your brother and being called a "monster" from your own mother can really mess with your mind.

      Oh, it really did mess with her. A mother's (and just about anyone's parental figure) love is more important than you'd think. Your theory is pretty believable, except for the fact that in the end, Azula seemed somewhat expectant and satsified when Zuko was apologizing for his actions to his citzens.

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    • Zuko will remain as Fire Lord until he passes his throne to his daughter. Any peripheral stories with Azula and Ursa will have to work around that, so you can forget about Azula showing up in public and fight Hakoda. It's sort of like the situation with Agent Coulson in Marvel Cinematic Universe. In the movies since The Avengers, the main characters think Coulson is dead. However, in the Agent of Shield TV series, the characters know that Coulson is still alive.

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    • Why couldn't Zuko just take the Fire Lord Crown while Sozin's Comet was still flying above the atmosphere immediately after Azula's defeat?

      He shouldn't have a lot of people at his coronation.

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    • Hiromichi wrote:
      Why couldn't Zuko just take the Fire Lord Crown while Sozin's Comet was still flying above the atmosphere immediately after Azula's defeat?

      He shouldn't have a lot of people at his coronation.

      Well, in most monarchies, a monarch technically becomes monarch at the moment the old one dies or steps down, but still go through a formal coronation to make it official. Queen Elizabeth, for example, technically became queen when her father died but her actual coronoation wasn't until months later. I assume it's asimilar case with Zuko; he was technicallyy in control from the moment of Azula's defeat, but the coronation was to officialize it.

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    • and Azula's coronation would've been official if Zuko didn't make it in time.

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    • Hiromichi wrote:
      Why couldn't Zuko just take the Fire Lord Crown while Sozin's Comet was still flying above the atmosphere immediately after Azula's defeat?

      He shouldn't have a lot of people at his coronation.

      Plus, he wanted citzens to be there in the courtyard (I think it's a courtyard?) so he could personally tell them that the war was finally over and that Ozai had been overthrown by the Avatar. I don't really think there were a lot of fire nation citzens present, though.

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    • Azula is worthy of respect. She works. She creates itself and the world. And her character is not an obstacle to work. In the Italian province of Rimini once lived a great tyrant. He corresponded with the Pope. Pope threatened the tyrant that he go to hell. But these threats are only amused tyrant. Azula no longer crazy. She's super effective. And because of it, I am sorry that she will lose.

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    • She's back to being a calculating manipulator rather than being in villainous-breakdown mode like she was between Book 3 and The Search.  It remains that she's a vicious wounded eel-hound who tries to bite everything within reach.

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    • Hiromichi wrote:
      Azula's sanity may be gone forever.

      if she finds Hakoda, she might try to scratch his eyes out.

      if she saw the invasion force freed, she mgiht rage and try to fight them in anger.

      That's what I'd like to see. 

      Anyways, I think she's really down the drain, sanity gone forever and stuff, but some of the worst symptoms might've healed (how? don't ask me. medications, traditional medicine, some spiritual explanation, we can't know) and she's slowly putting herself back, back to what she was.

      So we're talking about the return of badass Azula, and I don't think she's giving up her quest for power yet. As it was said before, her plans might've changed, but she's not backing down, surrendering to all of Zuko's plans with the nation. 

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    • Emperor Qin wrote:
      Hiromichi wrote:
      Azula's sanity may be gone forever.

      if she finds Hakoda, she might try to scratch his eyes out.

      if she saw the invasion force freed, she mgiht rage and try to fight them in anger.

      That's what I'd like to see. 

      Anyways, I think she's really down the drain, sanity gone forever and stuff, but some of the worst symptoms might've healed (how? don't ask me. medications, traditional medicine, some spiritual explanation, we can't know) and she's slowly putting herself back, back to what she was.

      So we're talking about the return of badass Azula, and I don't think she's giving up her quest for power yet. As it was said before, her plans might've changed, but she's not backing down, surrendering to all of Zuko's plans with the nation. 

      I'm not really sure about Azula returning as she once was. If you pay close attention, you'll notice that she seems a lot more....wild, then she use to be. If she really was that bent over achieving ultimate power, wouldn't she be a lot less free then she claims she is? She purposefully messes up hair in one of her scenes with Mai. Neat Hair= Perfect Azula. C'mon, that was established in the series.

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    • Integer115 wrote:
      Azula is worthy of respect. She works. She creates itself and the world. And her character is not an obstacle to work. In the Italian province of Rimini once lived a great tyrant. He corresponded with the Pope. Pope threatened the tyrant that he go to hell. But these threats are only amused tyrant. Azula no longer crazy. She's super effective. And because of it, I am sorry that she will lose.

      How does she create the world?

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    • Integer115 wrote:
      Azula is worthy of respect. She works. She creates itself and the world. And her character is not an obstacle to work. In the Italian province of Rimini once lived a great tyrant. He corresponded with the Pope. Pope threatened the tyrant that he go to hell. But these threats are only amused tyrant. Azula no longer crazy. She's super effective. And because of it, I am sorry that she will lose.
      How? No matter how awesome she is, Azula is still a murderous sociopath that wants to become Firelord and create another Hundred Year War. If you look at the rest of the world's perspective, Azula is not worthy of respect, and to the rest of the world she is very
      Azula upset
      dangerous.
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    • Sage Serendipity wrote:

      How? No matter how awesome she is, Azula is still a murderous sociopath that wants to become Firelord and create another Hundred Year War. If you look at the rest of the world's perspective, Azula is not worthy of respect, and to the rest of the world she is very dangerous.

      Good morning, Vicar of St. Peter! The ability to kill is essential for any serious policy. Sociopathy is also important. When a man raises his head, everyone who the remaining at the same level, begin to hate him. The more advances, the more the conspiracy to overthrow the Lord. Therefore, Lord, or do nothing, or he is always at war with foreign enemies and domestic. His family may be poison him. His friends may be kill him. His vassals can start a war against him. It is necessary to create a groups that will hate each other. It is necessary to keep the enemies closer to him than even friends. Azula has proven that she can in Ba Sing Se. Weak and stupid tyrant is a buffoon. A strong and clever tyrant is a dragon. She's dragon and I admire her claws and her fiery breath.

      DarkNet1 wrote: How does she create the world? 

      The world is all the things around us and their order. Her father is pure destruction. But she is a tool of manipulation chaos and order.

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    • Integer115 wrote:
      Sage Serendipity wrote:

      How? No matter how awesome she is, Azula is still a murderous sociopath that wants to become Firelord and create another Hundred Year War. If you look at the rest of the world's perspective, Azula is not worthy of respect, and to the rest of the world she is very dangerous.

      Good morning, Vicar of St. Peter! The ability to kill is essential for any serious policy. Sociopathy is also important. When a man raises his head, everyone who the remaining at the same level, begin to hate him. The more advances, the more the conspiracy to overthrow the Lord. Therefore, Lord, or do nothing, or he is always at war with foreign enemies and domestic. His family may be poison him. His friends may be kill him. His vassals can start a war against him. It is necessary to create a groups that will hate each other. It is necessary to keep the enemies closer to him than even friends. Azula has proven that she can in Ba Sing Se. Weak and stupid tyrant is a buffoon. A strong and clever tyrant is a dragon. She's dragon and I admire her claws and her fiery breath.


      DarkNet1 wrote: How does she create the world? 
      The world is all the things around us and their order. Her father is pure destruction. But she is a tool of manipulation chaos and order.

      So do you agree with Azula that Zuko has to be feared to a decent ruler or what?

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    • Integer115 wrote:
      Sage Serendipity wrote:

      How? No matter how awesome she is, Azula is still a murderous sociopath that wants to become Firelord and create another Hundred Year War. If you look at the rest of the world's perspective, Azula is not worthy of respect, and to the rest of the world she is very dangerous.

      Good morning, Vicar of St. Peter! The ability to kill is essential for any serious policy. Sociopathy is also important. When a man raises his head, everyone who the remaining at the same level, begin to hate him. The more advances, the more the conspiracy to overthrow the Lord. Therefore, Lord, or do nothing, or he is always at war with foreign enemies and domestic. His family may be poison him. His friends may be kill him. His vassals can start a war against him. It is necessary to create a groups that will hate each other. It is necessary to keep the enemies closer to him than even friends. Azula has proven that she can in Ba Sing Se. Weak and stupid tyrant is a buffoon. A strong and clever tyrant is a dragon. She's dragon and I admire her claws and her fiery breath.


      DarkNet1 wrote: How does she create the world? 
      The world is all the things around us and their order. Her father is pure destruction. But she is a tool of manipulation chaos and order.

      So do you agree with Azula that Zuko has to be feared to a decent ruler or what?

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    • Indeed I shall thank Integer115 for his comment, as his words are almost the same as mine. 

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    • Emperor Qin wrote: Indeed I shall thank Integer115 for his comment, as his words are almost the same as mine. 

      That's nothing to be proud of. Obviously, security needs to be a concern, but the notion that you have to be tyrannical in order to handle security is absurd. It's even counter-productive.

      If you have a reputation for being a tyrant, you're going to have more people looking at you as a threat, & less people serving you out of any sort of loyalty or other intrinsic motive. And the problem with extrinsic motives, like fear, if that if the King ever finds themselves in an actually vulnerable situation, where they really NEED their allies, they're going to lose that leverage & said allies will be less likely to help them.

      It also betrays what a bunch of bullshit "The King is for the People's own Good" really is. Every word of that speech was about personal power & security, & had absolutely nothing to do with the well-being of anyone else in the Fire Nation, except to the degree that protecting the rest of the Fire Nation benefits the Fire Lord personally.

      The Southern Water Tribe's arrangement, while not ideal, is much better. The Chief is chosen by the elders, so we KNOW he has the loyalty of the village on his side, & so there's no NEED to pit political enemies against one another. The Chief is also chosen by demonstrating their merit in leading the tribe, including managing its defense, not simply because of lineage or ability to manufacture power plays.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      That's nothing to be proud of. Obviously, security needs to be a concern, but the notion that you have to be tyrannical in order to handle security is absurd. It's even counter-productive.

      If you have a reputation for being a tyrant, you're going to have more people looking at you as a threat, & less people serving you out of any sort of loyalty or other intrinsic motive. And the problem with extrinsic motives, like fear, if that if the King ever finds themselves in an actually vulnerable situation, where they really NEED their allies, they're going to lose that leverage & said allies will be less likely to help them.

      As a trivial example:

      Minamoto no Yoshitsune was a great and noble warrior and commander. But he did not understand what the policy is and how it is done. He died as a vagabond, who was killed by his brother.

      Minamoto no Yoritomo was cunning, cruel and treacherous ruler. He established his shogunate and became the de facto ruler of Japan. And he hired killers that they killed his brother. And then he killed the killers.

      Or: Władysław II Jagiełło. He killed his uncle and uncle's wife. But the son (Vytautas) of these people became his ally in the Battle of Grunwald. They both went down in history as great politicians.

      Niccolo Machiavelli:

      So to hold it they were compelled to dismantle many cities in the country, for in truth there is no safe way to retain them otherwise than by ruining them. And he who becomes master of a city accustomed to freedom and does not destroy it, may expect to be destroyed by it, for in rebellion it has always the watchword of liberty and its ancient privileges as a rallying point, which neither time nor benefits will ever cause it to forget. And whatever you may do or provide against, they never forget that name or their privileges unless they are disunited or dispersed, but at every chance they immediately rally to them.

      Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life, and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.

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    • DarkNet1 wrote:

      So do you agree with Azula that Zuko has to be feared to a decent ruler or what?

      I hope so. It will be good if she can still manifest itself. Although the role of grey eminence for her is also nice.

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    • Integer115 wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      That's nothing to be proud of. Obviously, security needs to be a concern, but the notion that you have to be tyrannical in order to handle security is absurd. It's even counter-productive.

      If you have a reputation for being a tyrant, you're going to have more people looking at you as a threat, & less people serving you out of any sort of loyalty or other intrinsic motive. And the problem with extrinsic motives, like fear, if that if the King ever finds themselves in an actually vulnerable situation, where they really NEED their allies, they're going to lose that leverage & said allies will be less likely to help them.

      As a trivial example:

      Minamoto no Yoshitsune was a great and noble warrior and commander. But he did not understand what the policy is and how it is done. He died as a vagabond, who was killed by his brother.

      Minamoto no Yoritomo was cunning, cruel and treacherous ruler. He established his shogunate and became the de facto ruler of Japan. And he hired killers that they killed his brother. And then he killed the killers.

      Or: Władysław II Jagiełło. He killed his uncle and uncle's wife. But the son (Vytautas) of these people became his ally in the Battle of Grunwald. They both went down in history as great politicians.

      Niccolo Machiavelli:

      So to hold it they were compelled to dismantle many cities in the country, for in truth there is no safe way to retain them otherwise than by ruining them. And he who becomes master of a city accustomed to freedom and does not destroy it, may expect to be destroyed by it, for in rebellion it has always the watchword of liberty and its ancient privileges as a rallying point, which neither time nor benefits will ever cause it to forget. And whatever you may do or provide against, they never forget that name or their privileges unless they are disunited or dispersed, but at every chance they immediately rally to them.

      Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life, and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.

      Did you copy and paste this whole essay from an article or are you actually extremely dedicated to this viewpoint of ruling??

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    • I have a mental illness and have had it for years (during a period of 20th-21st Century medicine and treatment at that). I function well with medicine and therapy, though I'm still not cured. I'm not a doctor, though I'd imagine she would still have issues to say the least.

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    • Ashara Xerxes wrote:
      I have a mental illness and have had it for years (during a period of 20th-21st Century medicine and treatment at that). I function well with medicine and therapy, though I'm still not cured. I'm not a doctor, though I'd imagine she would still have issues to say the least.

      Just out of curiosity, which mental illness do you harbor?

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    • I wish Aang could have took Azula's bending, and she would get all her limbs broken very badly so she won't bend anymore

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    • DarkNet1 wrote:

      Ashara Xerxes wrote:
      I have a mental illness and have had it for years (during a period of 20th-21st Century medicine and treatment at that). I function well with medicine and therapy, though I'm still not cured. I'm not a doctor, though I'd imagine she would still have issues to say the least.

      Just out of curiosity, which mental illness do you harbor?

      Schizoaffective Disorder, Depression and the worst for me is the paranoia, but I'll leave it at that.

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    • Yamisora wrote:
      I wish Aang could have took Azula's bending, and she would get all her limbs broken very badly so she won't bend anymore

      Her whole plan with the Kermuikage and messing up Zuko had been done with nearly zero amount of bending. I don't think that's really going to work. P.S, Azula's really adept at hand-to-hand combat and she's quite agile.

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    • Integer115 wrote:
      Azula is worthy of respect. She works. She creates itself and the world. And her character is not an obstacle to work. In the Italian province of Rimini once lived a great tyrant. He corresponded with the Pope. Pope threatened the tyrant that he go to hell. But these threats are only amused tyrant. Azula no longer crazy. She's super effective. And because of it, I am sorry that she will lose.

      Well, I partially agree with you. In fact, She's my favorite character from the series...

      But example of Rimini was a bit a bad comparison. Guess which city was annexed by Paul II and then eradicated By borgias? 

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    • Integer115 wrote: Azula is worthy of respect. She works. She creates itself and the world. And her character is not an obstacle to work. In the Italian province of Rimini once lived a great tyrant. He corresponded with the Pope. Pope threatened the tyrant that he go to hell. But these threats are only amused tyrant. Azula no longer crazy. She's super effective. And because of it, I am sorry that she will lose. Raises eyebrow. Like Zuko,Aang,Katara,Sokka etc didn't work to change the world. I like what they did with her here, and wouldn't mind it being the conclusion of sorts, with Azula out there making chaos here and there,either forever or until she dies, like a more relaxed Joker.

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    • Nukeverything wrote:

      Well, I partially agree with you. In fact, She's my favorite character from the series...

      But example of Rimini was a bit a bad comparison. Guess which city was annexed by Paul II and then eradicated By borgias? 

      Azula also lost. In the show and in the comics. She completely lost the initiative. And in the end, her goals turn out to be some kind of nonsense. And this is an obvious authorial arbitrariness. They just need to make Zuko look better. But for the entire Smoke and Shadow story arc, nothing was shown that would make him a serious lord. All that he does is like a simple reflection. However, it began in the Book Three: Fire. 

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    • I don't think she lost initiative so much as she lost her mind; being betrayed by her closest friends unhinged a mind that was already addled by unresolved issues from childhood and a minor inferiority complex and with the loss of her mind, she could no longer stand as a viable candidate for the throne or any position of power. Her goals becoming "nonsense" could be attributed to said insanity, but i don't think her goals are nonsense. Her goal in The Search was a bit poorly-planned; even if Zuko had been Ikem's son, rather than Ozai's, nobody would have believed a former mental patient, certainly not on the word of a letter alone (and even if they did, they'd probably just crown Iroh rather than Azula). Her plans in S&S make sense to me; having lost much of her credibility, she no longer had a hope of ruling herself, so the next best thing was to make Zuko into the ruler she wanted. It didn't work out in the end, but it still made some sense.

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    • Azula also lost. In the show and in the comics. She completely lost the initiative. And in the end, her goals turn out to be some kind of nonsense. And this is an obvious authorial arbitrariness. They just need to make Zuko look better. But for the entire Smoke and Shadow story arc, nothing was shown that would make him a serious lord. All that he does is like a simple reflection. However, it began in the Book Three: Fire.  </div>

      Uh, no. Zuko is a badass Fire Lord.

      She may be worthy of respect, but is not a figure to emulate at all.

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    • And what would exactly make him a "badass Fire Lord" to the point Azula isn't, at least not to the extent people like him would need to learn how to emulate her? 

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    • The fact that he has clearly improved from his actions in The Promise (only comic I strongly dislike), and is acting... reasonably.

      There is a wide gap between being a little firm in one's methods, and whatever she would do. Why do you think we never heard about the institution she broke her accomplices out of, not to mention literally everything she does in the series?

      Besides, the Fire Nation of Korra's time is clearly pretty great, as Korra didn't even need to go there at all.

      I also don't think Azula is 100 percent beyond redemption, but if she does try it (redemption) I want her to suck at the dragon/ sun energy style of firebending at first, as an evening scale.

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    • Emperor Qin wrote: And what would exactly make him a "badass Fire Lord" to the point Azula isn't, at least not to the extent people like him would need to learn how to emulate her? 

      I don't know if i'd call him a badass, but he would certainly be a better ruler than Azula with her mental issues

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    • Zuko's pretty dang cool when the narrative decides to let him be. Remember the Blue Spirit? Or fighting those Earth Army thugs? Or effortlessly fending off multiple firebending would-be assassins in Smoke & Shadow?

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