FANDOM


  • Lady Lostris
    Lady Lostris closed this thread because:
    Question answered, devolving into unconstructive conversation
    00:39, February 13, 2016

    If the other members of Team Avatar offered to help Aang defeat the fire lord, why didn't they actually help him when he did fight the fire lord? They didn't even come to his aid when he was getting his arrow handed to him.

      Loading editor
    • They didn't even know if he was going to fight or not because he was missing, so they went to fight the rest while they hoped he would show up. Sokka, Suki, and Toph couldn't do anything, Ozai could easily kill them by shooting at the ship they were.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      They didn't even know if he was going to fight or not because he was missing, so they went to fight the rest while they hoped he would show up. Sokka, Suki, and Toph couldn't do anything, Ozai could easily kill them by shooting at the ship they were.

      Sokka saw Aang arrive and take out Ozai's ship. They could've at least came to Aang's aid when he was being beaten.

        Loading editor
    • Those ships weren't really fast, even if they did it they would get there to see AS Aang beating the shit out of Ozai.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Those ships weren't really fast, even if they did it they would get there to see AS Aang beating the shit out of Ozai.

      They wouldn't even have to take long.

        Loading editor
    • Don't they spend the time taking out the other airships?

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Don't they spend the time taking out the other airships?

      That doesn't mean they couldn't've helped Aang at least a little.

        Loading editor
    • Can't be in 2 places at once, especially since it's not like they were idling, they barely escaped with their lives.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Can't be in 2 places at once, especially since it's not like they were idling, they barely escaped with their lives.

      They didn't even come to his aid when he was getting his arrow handed to him.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Those ships weren't really fast, even if they did it they would get there to see AS Aang beating the shit out of Ozai.


      That.

        Loading editor
    • "I don't want you or anyone else risking your lives to fix my mistakes! I've always known that I would have to face the Fire Lord. But now I know I need to do it alone."
        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      Those ships weren't really fast, even if they did it they would get there to see AS Aang beating the shit out of Ozai.

      That.

      So?

        Loading editor
    • Ziryerx wrote:
      "I don't want you or anyone else risking your lives to fix my mistakes! I've always known that I would have to face the Fire Lord. But now I know I need to do it alone."

      What does that have to do with anything?

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      Those ships weren't really fast, even if they did it they would get there to see AS Aang beating the shit out of Ozai.

      That.
      So?


      So, even if they went there they would only get there by the time Aang was winning the fight. They only got there after it was finished, that thing is freaking slow.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      Those ships weren't really fast, even if they did it they would get there to see AS Aang beating the shit out of Ozai.

      That.
      So?

      So, even if they went there they would only get there by the time Aang was winning the fight. They only got there after it was finished, that thing is freaking slow.

      Who said they had to be there the instant Aang was losing?

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Ziryerx wrote:
      "I don't want you or anyone else risking your lives to fix my mistakes! I've always known that I would have to face the Fire Lord. But now I know I need to do it alone."

      What does that have to do with anything?

      This quote does not simply reflect a dramatic Aang speaking out of emotional distress, but rather acts as an element of foreshadowing while placing additional emphasis on the previously-established significance of destiny in the Avatar. A substantial portion of Book 2 focuses on Zuko's journey to find his destiny (recall the title of the finale); Book 3 switches to focus on Aang and his destiny. It is the task of the Avatar to restore balance to the world. His allies may assist in taking care of the "leg work", so to speak; however, the Avatar himself must take the decisive course of action needed to fully accomplish this. Zuko realized this, and hence let Ozai live on the Day of Black Sun in order to ensure that the world would return to balance. Had additional member of Team Avatar arrived, it is possible that Ozai would have ended up losing his life. Ending one hundred years of tyrannical violence and oppression with an act of incapacitation, rather than more death carries much more weight in meaning.

        Loading editor
    • They got there after the fight was over, there is nothing saying they didn't go there after they finished what they were doing.

        Loading editor
    • Ziryerx wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Ziryerx wrote:
      "I don't want you or anyone else risking your lives to fix my mistakes! I've always known that I would have to face the Fire Lord. But now I know I need to do it alone."
      What does that have to do with anything?
      This quote does not simply reflect a dramatic Aang speaking out of emotional distress, but rather acts as an element of foreshadowing while placing additional emphasis on the previously-established significance of destiny in the Avatar. A substantial portion of Book 2 focuses on Zuko's journey to find his destiny (recall the title of the finale); Book 3 switches to focus on Aang and his destiny. It is the task of the Avatar to restore balance to the world. His allies may assist in taking care of the "leg work", so to speak; however, the Avatar himself must take the decisive course of action needed to fully accomplish this. Zuko realized this, and hence let Ozai live on the Day of Black Sun in order to ensure that the world would return to balance. Had additional member of Team Avatar arrived, it is possible that Ozai would have ended up losing his life. Ending one hundred years of tyrannical violence and oppression with an act of incapacitation, rather than more death carries much more weight in meaning.

      I'm just saying they could've helped Aang a little during the final battle, but they didn't even do that.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      They got there after the fight was over, there is nothing saying they didn't go there after they finished what they were doing.

      I didn't say they didn't, I'm just saying that they could've helped some.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      They got there after the fight was over, there is nothing saying they didn't go there after they finished what they were doing.
      I didn't say they didn't, I'm just saying that they could've helped some.


      How would they help if they weren't even there?

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      They got there after the fight was over, there is nothing saying they didn't go there after they finished what they were doing.
      I didn't say they didn't, I'm just saying that they could've helped some.

      How would they help if they weren't even there?

      They could've arrived before the final battle.

        Loading editor
    • Are you serious? That doesn't even make sense.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Are you serious? That doesn't even make sense.

      I think you mean "Are you veerus?"




      (I'll let myself out now...)

        Loading editor
    • I didn't understand. Explain yourself right now.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      I didn't understand. Explain yourself right now.


      • sigh* VeerusOfDeath... the stubborn maker of this thread... you were incredulous at his apparnet ignorance... Veerus and serious rhyme...............................................................
        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      I didn't understand. Explain yourself right now.
      • sigh* VeerusOfDeath... the stubborn maker of this thread... you were incredulous at his ignorance... Veerus and serious rhyme...............................................................


      How could i not notice that?

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Are you serious? That doesn't even make sense.

      It makes perfect sense.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      I didn't understand. Explain yourself right now.
      • sigh* VeerusOfDeath... the stubborn maker of this thread... you were incredulous at his ignorance... Veerus and serious rhyme...............................................................

      I'm not ignorant.

        Loading editor
    • The question could just as easily be asked as, "Why didn't Aang take time out from the fight with Ozai to save Toph & Sokka from falling to their deaths?" It makes no sense, it's simple logic that they can't be in 2 places at once.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      The question could just as easily be asked as, "Why didn't Aang take time out from the fight with Ozai to save Toph & Sokka from falling to their deaths?" It makes no sense, it's simple logic that they can't be in 2 places at once.

      They could've went to the airship base early and hijacked a ship, that way when the others arrived, they could stop the destruction BEFORE it happened, and when Ozai came, Aang could get help in fighting him.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      They could've went to the airship base early and hijacked a ship, that way when the others arrived, they could stop the destruction BEFORE it happened, and when Ozai came, Aang could get help in fighting him.

      That would require them to know where the airships were docked (which they didn't) AND still get there before they took off (without Appa, since Zuko and Katara took off on him). And Ozai presumably would be with the airships, so they'd have to contend with him directly, at which point they'd end up crispier than a bucket of KFC.

        Loading editor
    • Honestly, they probably did just as much, if not more by stoppage of destruction measures, than Aang. I mean, if they go to help Aang fight Oazi, then the 15+ airships completely roast a decent chunk of the earth nation. They prevent/stop a huge destructive fire from spreading accross the entire nation. So they do help Aang fight Oazi, just indirectly. Say Aang did lose to Oazi. Following Oazi turns around and sees his entire air-fleet destroyed, Sozin's comet has passed, and the new avatar has been born into the reinvigorated water tribe(s).Sokka, Toph and Suki won that battle hands down. Not completely sure how any of them would have been that helpful in a flying, wide spread battle anyway. maybe Togh, but Oazi was flying 80% of the time so she couldn't see him. .  

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      They could've went to the airship base early and hijacked a ship, that way when the others arrived, they could stop the destruction BEFORE it happened, and when Ozai came, Aang could get help in fighting him.

      That would require them to know where the airships were docked (which they didn't) AND still get there before they took off (without Appa, since Zuko and Katara took off on him). And Ozai presumably would be with the airships, so they'd have to contend with him directly, at which point they'd end up crispier than a bucket of KFC.

      Who said they couldn't find out early?

        Loading editor
    • MeelosLeaf422 wrote:
      Honestly, they probably did just as much, if not more by stoppage of destruction measures, than Aang. I mean, if they go to help Aang fight Oazi, then the 15+ airships completely roast a decent chunk of the earth nation. They prevent/stop a huge destructive fire from spreading accross the entire nation. So they do help Aang fight Oazi, just indirectly. Say Aang did lose to Oazi. Following Oazi turns around and sees his entire air-fleet destroyed, Sozin's comet has passed, and the new avatar has been born into the reinvigorated water tribe(s).Sokka, Toph and Suki won that battle hands down. Not completely sure how any of them would have been that helpful in a flying, wide spread battle anyway. maybe Togh, but Oazi was flying 80% of the time so she couldn't see him. .  

      I'm just saying, they could've gotten a tip early and stopped the airships early.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Who said they couldn't find out early?

      You did, when you asked why they didn't help Aang during the Battle of Wulong Forest. Unless now you just want to completely rewrite all of Book 3. 

        Loading editor
    • Sokka, Suki and Toph did help Aang, just not directly. They disabled the airship fleet  and prevented any other firebenders from helping Ozai. None of them were powerful enough to fight Ozai head on so they helped however they could. It's the same reason Asami or Tenzin and Pema's kids didn't go toe to toe with UnaVaatu or the Red Lotus. Some threats can only be handled by the Avatar.

        Loading editor
    • Tommytoe wrote:
      Sokka, Suki and Toph did help Aang, just not directly. They disabled the airship fleet  and prevented any other firebenders from helping Ozai. None of them were powerful enough to fight Ozai head on so they helped however they could. It's the same reason Asami or Tenzin and Pema's kids didn't go toe to toe with UnaVaatu or the Red Lotus. Some threats can only be handled by the Avatar.

      Even if they weren't strong enough, they could've distracted him long enough for Aang to deliver his blows.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:Even if they weren't strong enough, they could've distracted him long enough for Aang to deliver his blows.

      For a few seconds maybe. :P After that Ozai would have reduced them to piles of ash. Well, Toph might have been able to hang in there a bit longer but non-benders like Sokka and Suki wouldn't have stood a chance. I'm certainly not criticizing Sokka or Suki since I love them both but expecting them to be able to stand up against Ozai is more than a little ridiculous. And given that Ozai was flying most of the time, Toph wouldn't have been able to sense him so that kind of kills any possibilty of her taking Ozai on either.

        Loading editor
    • Tommytoe wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:Even if they weren't strong enough, they could've distracted him long enough for Aang to deliver his blows.
      For a few seconds maybe. :P After that Ozai would have reduced them to piles of ash. Well, Toph might have been able to hang in there a bit longer but non-benders like Sokka and Suki wouldn't have stood a chance. I'm certainly not criticizing Sokka or Suki since I love them both but expecting them to be able to stand up against Ozai is more than a little ridiculous. And given that Ozai was flying most of the time, Toph wouldn't have been able to sense him so that kind of kills any possibilty of her taking Ozai on either.

      Sokka and Suki are warriors. They're suppose to be stealthy.

        Loading editor
    • Sokka's idea of stealth consists of charging in and yelling "SNEAK ATTACK!" at the top of his lungs. He's not exactly Solid Snake. Why are you so dead set on Sokka, Suki and Toph fight Ozai anyway? I think the roles they were given in the finale fit perfectly with their capabilities and what needed to be done.

        Loading editor
    • Tommytoe wrote:
      Sokka's idea of stealth consists of charging in and yelling "SNEAK ATTACK!" at the top of his lungs. He's not exactly Solid Snake. Why are you so dead set on Sokka, Suki and Toph fight Ozai anyway? I think the roles they were given in the finale fit perfectly with their capabilities and what needed to be done.

      Katara said the whole gang would help Aang in the final battle.

        Loading editor
    • They did help him, just not the way they originally planned. All six of them planned on fighting Ozai together but that fell through when Aang disapeared so the rest of the Gaang did the best they could with a plan B.

        Loading editor
    • Tommytoe wrote:
      They did help him, just not the way they originally planned. All six of them planned on fighting Ozai together but that fell through when Aang disapeared so the rest of the Gaang did the best they could with a plan B.

      They may have helped him different than they intended, but still, none of them even bothered to help him directly, or at the very least, show concern when he was getting beaten.

        Loading editor
    • They were concerned about Aang. Look how worried they were when the first noticed he was gone and he wasn't even fighting Ozai at that point. And after that, They were kind of busy and they literally couldn't help Aang directly. Zuko and Katara were dealing with Azula at the FN palace and Sokka, Suki and Toph were busy destroying an entire fleet of warships. And even then, the latter three tried to catch up to Ozai but their ship wasn't fast enough. Even if that wasn't a factor, what exactly could they have done?


      Suki and Sokka, awesome as they are, couldn't keep up with Ozai flying all over the place and wouldn't be able to defend themselves against his firebending. They'd end up being a liability instead of an asset and Aang would have to protect them when he was barely able to keep himself alive. At best, Toph might have been able to dig a cave for the three of them to hide out in but that would leave the rest of the FN air forces free to rain merry hell on the Earth Kingdom.

        Loading editor
    • Tommytoe wrote:
      They were concerned about Aang. Look how worried they were when the first noticed he was gone and he wasn't even fighting Ozai at that point. And after that, They were kind of busy and they literally couldn't help Aang directly. Zuko and Katara were dealing with Azula at the FN palace and Sokka, Suki and Toph were busy destroying an entire fleet of warships. And even then, the latter three tried to catch up to Ozai but their ship wasn't fast enough. Even if that wasn't a factor, what exactly could they have done?


      Suki and Sokka, awesome as they are, couldn't keep up with Ozai flying all over the place and wouldn't be able to defend themselves against his firebending. They'd end up being a liability instead of an asset and Aang would have to protect them when he was barely able to keep himself alive. At best, Toph might have been able to dig a cave for the three of them to hide out in but that would leave the rest of the FN air forces free to rain merry hell on the Earth Kingdom.

      Like I said, they could've raided the airship base early, gotten a tip early, and be there to help Aang in the final battle.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Like I said, they could've raided the airship base early, gotten a tip early, and be there to help Aang in the final battle.

      If they take out the airships early (which as we've already gone over, chances of that working are slim to none) then there wouldn't even be a final battle. Ozai is stranded with no way to launch his attack. 

        Loading editor
    • Plain and simple..   Dramatic  storytelling, especially in the heroic adventure mode, demands  that  the Hero and the Big Bad  resolve matters one on one.   Does it have to be spelled out on a chalkboard?

        Loading editor
    • Drahliana wrote: Plain and simple..   Dramatic  storytelling, especially in the heroic adventure mode, demands  that  the Hero and the Big Bad  resolve matters one on one.   Does it have to be spelled out on a chalkboard?

      That's the thing, even if they dramatically rewrote everything to the point where it made sense for the Gaang to fight Ozai...why? It's thematically appropriate for Aang to solo the Fire Lord. This is the point at which he takes fate into his own hands. Up until then, he'd been content to serve a support or advisory role. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but as basically a god on earth, he has to learn how to take the reigns when it's necessary.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Like I said, they could've raided the airship base early, gotten a tip early, and be there to help Aang in the final battle.

      If they take out the airships early (which as we've already gone over, chances of that working are slim to none) then there wouldn't even be a final battle. Ozai is stranded with no way to launch his attack. 

      Well, at least the problem is solved.

        Loading editor
    • Drahliana wrote:
      Plain and simple..   Dramatic  storytelling, especially in the heroic adventure mode, demands  that  the Hero and the Big Bad  resolve matters one on one.   Does it have to be spelled out on a chalkboard?

      Well the show has more than one hero.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Drahliana wrote: Plain and simple..   Dramatic  storytelling, especially in the heroic adventure mode, demands  that  the Hero and the Big Bad  resolve matters one on one.   Does it have to be spelled out on a chalkboard?

      That's the thing, even if they dramatically rewrote everything to the point where it made sense for the Gaang to fight Ozai...why? It's thematically appropriate for Aang to solo the Fire Lord. This is the point at which he takes fate into his own hands. Up until then, he'd been content to serve a support or advisory role. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but as basically a god on earth, he has to learn how to take the reigns when it's necessary.

      Well we know Aang was losing the first few minutes. Also, who said Aang was a god?

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote: Well the show has more than one hero.

      And none of them are alluded to in the title of the show. The audience was more or less promised a one-on-one showdown between Aang and Ozai at least from the episode "Avatar Roku." That's what they were building up to for the entirety of the series. To not deliver on that promise would be a cop-out of epic proportions. It would destroy the integrity of the entire story. And the audience is under no illusions: we're all expecting Aang to win after a tough struggle. To throw other people in when things might be looking bad just cheapens what everyone knows is an inevitable victory.

      So what you're proposing is just bad storytelling. And if you can't understand that, then either you're a complete idiot, or a troll. Or both--I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie
      McJediProbie removed this reply because:
      Same thing posted twice
      23:43, February 11, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote: Well the show has more than one hero.

      And none of them are alluded to in the title of the show. The audience was more or less promised a one-on-one showdown between Aang and Ozai at least from the episode "Avatar Roku." That's what they were building up to for the entirety of the series. To not deliver on that promise would be a cop-out of epic proportions. It would destroy the integrity of the entire story. And the audience is under no illusions: we're all expecting Aang to win after a tough struggle. To throw other people in when things might be looking bad just cheapens what everyone knows is an inevitable victory.

      So what you're proposing is just bad storytelling. And if you can't understand that, then either you're a complete idiot, or a troll. Or both--I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive.

      I'm not saying the others should've defeated Ozai. I'm just saying they could've kept him from killing Aang.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.

      Yeah.... in Hinduism. In the world of Avatar, the Avatar is a bender with the ability to bend all four elements.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.

      Well, spirit, but in the Avatarverse Raava is essentially the same thing.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.
      Well, spirit, but in the Avatarverse Raava is essentially the same thing.

      No, Raava is the spirit of peace and light.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.
      Well, spirit, but in the Avatarverse Raava is essentially the same thing.
      No, Raava is the spirit of peace and light.

      Peace, light, good and creation all go hand-in-hand.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      I'm not saying the others should've defeated Ozai. I'm just saying they could've kept him from killing Aang.

      So they should've kept him from doing something he couldn't do anyway? Your entire argument just doesn't make sense to anyone who has seen the entire fight.

        Loading editor
    • Rewatch Sozin's Comet again. All four parts. Please.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      I'm not saying the others should've defeated Ozai. I'm just saying they could've kept him from killing Aang.

      So they should've kept him from doing something he couldn't do anyway? Your entire argument just doesn't make sense to anyone who has seen the entire fight.

      Ozai was winning the first half.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.
      Well, spirit, but in the Avatarverse Raava is essentially the same thing.
      No, Raava is the spirit of peace and light.
      Peace, light, good and creation all go hand-in-hand.

      Well, how does that make her a god?

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Ozai was winning the first half.

      And no where near killing him. In fact, Aang was the one who had the opportunity to end things early with lightning redirection. And in any case, it's the second half that matters--especially the end of the second half. You know, the part where Aang wins.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Ozai was winning the first half.

      And no where near killing him. In fact, Aang was the one who had the opportunity to end things early with lightning redirection. And in any case, it's the second half that matters--especially the end of the second half. You know, the part where Aang wins.

      Ozai had the clear advantage in the first half. Aang almost died. He then trapped himself in a rock.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Ozai had the clear advantage in the first half. Aang almost died. He then trapped himself in a rock.

      ...and then emerged and kicked Ozai's sorry ass. That alone is enough to prove you wrong. You're trying to nitpick where there is no nit to pick.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Ozai had the clear advantage in the first half. Aang almost died. He then trapped himself in a rock.

      ...and then emerged and kicked Ozai's sorry ass. That alone is enough to prove you wrong. You're trying to nitpick where there is no nit to pick.

      No, that was the second half. We're focusing on the first half. And no, I'm not nitpicking.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      No, that was the second half. We're focusing on the first half. And no, I'm not nitpicking.

      THE SECOND HALF PROVES YOU WRONG. It doesn't matter what happened in the first half if Aang still wins in the end. And if the only way you can say that the others could have helped him is by changing the entire scenario so they do all the work for him before he even shows up, then yes, you're nitpicking. 

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.
      Well, spirit, but in the Avatarverse Raava is essentially the same thing.
      No, Raava is the spirit of peace and light.
      Peace, light, good and creation all go hand-in-hand.
      Well, how does that make her a god?

      I said they are essentially the same thing.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      No, that was the second half. We're focusing on the first half. And no, I'm not nitpicking.

      THE SECOND HALF PROVES YOU WRONG. It doesn't matter what happened in the first half if Aang still wins in the end. And if the only way you can say that the others could have helped him is by changing the entire scenario so they do all the work for him before he even shows up, then yes, you're nitpicking. 

      No, Aang was losing in the first half, they could've helped him then. We're not talking about the second half, onnly the first half. I said NOTHING about doing the work for him.

        Loading editor
    • They could not have helped them, we have already told you, Sokka and Suki as nonbenders would not be able to do anything, and with Ozai flying in the air Toph would have been useless as well. They would've been a burden if anything, as Aang was already having a hard time keeping himself alive. They were all busy destroying the airship fleet TO KEEP AANG FROM HAVING TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING ELSE.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      No, Aang was losing in the first half, they could've helped him then. We're not talking about the second half, onnly the first half. I said NOTHING about doing the work for him.

      No, you're an idiot. The first half doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters is who is standing at the END of the fight. The fact that the second half even exists makes the first half completely irrelevant to this discussion. Does whoever is winning at half time automatically win the Super Bowl? Or is it whoever's winning at the end of the 4th quarter? 

      We've gone over this. It was physically impossible for any of Aang's friends to help him at ANY point during the fight: they were all busy trying to stay alive themselves. You've tried to get around that by saying they should have taken out the air fleet earlier. To do that, they necessarily would have had to defeat Ozai as well, because he would be with the fleet wherever it is. They would be doing everything for him. You can't have it both ways: either they do all the work for him, or none of it.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      An Avatar is the human incarnation of a god. That is literally what the word means.
      Well, spirit, but in the Avatarverse Raava is essentially the same thing.
      No, Raava is the spirit of peace and light.
      Peace, light, good and creation all go hand-in-hand.
      Well, how does that make her a god?
      I said they are essentially the same thing.

      But how?

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      They could not have helped them, we have already told you, Sokka and Suki as nonbenders would not be able to do anything, and with Ozai flying in the air Toph would have been useless as well. They would've been a burden if anything, as Aang was already having a hard time keeping himself alive. They were all busy destroying the airship fleet TO KEEP AANG FROM HAVING TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING ELSE.

      I'm not saying they had to be directly involved. Like I said, they could've destroyed the airships early. Something else could've happened that Aang and Ozai met, and the whole gang could help Aang.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      I'm not saying they had to be directly involved. Like I said, they could've destroyed the airships early. Something else could've happened that Aang and Ozai met, and the whole gang could help Aang.

      And if you can't offer an example of exactly what that something else is, then nothing you say has ANY merit whatsoever. 

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:


      SorcererSupreme21 wrote: I said they are essentially the same thing.
      But how?

      Look it up.

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      They could not have helped them, we have already told you, Sokka and Suki as nonbenders would not be able to do anything, and with Ozai flying in the air Toph would have been useless as well. They would've been a burden if anything, as Aang was already having a hard time keeping himself alive. They were all busy destroying the airship fleet TO KEEP AANG FROM HAVING TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING ELSE.
      I'm not saying they had to be directly involved. Like I said, they could've destroyed the airships early. Something else could've happened that Aang and Ozai met, and the whole gang could help Aang.

      How and what?

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      No, Aang was losing in the first half, they could've helped him then. We're not talking about the second half, onnly the first half. I said NOTHING about doing the work for him.

      No, you're an idiot. The first half doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters is who is standing at the END of the fight. The fact that the second half even exists makes the first half completely irrelevant to this discussion. Does whoever is winning at half time automatically win the Super Bowl? Or is it whoever's winning at the end of the 4th quarter? 

      We've gone over this. It was physically impossible for any of Aang's friends to help him at ANY point during the fight: they were all busy trying to stay alive themselves. You've tried to get around that by saying they should have taken out the air fleet earlier. To do that, they necessarily would have had to defeat Ozai as well, because he would be with the fleet wherever it is. They would be doing everything for him. You can't have it both ways: either they do all the work for him, or none of it.

      Yes, the first half DOES matter. The second half is irrelevant to what I brought up. Aang was almost losing, the gang could've helped him then. Like I said, they could've taken out the airships early. Taking out the fleet early would've prevented any destruction from happening. Aang and Ozai probably would've met at a later point, and the gang could help Aang. I'm not saying they should've defeated Ozai, I'm saying they should've at least helped Aang out. The gang can keep Ozai distracted while Aang defeats him.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      I'm not saying they had to be directly involved. Like I said, they could've destroyed the airships early. Something else could've happened that Aang and Ozai met, and the whole gang could help Aang.

      And if you can't offer an example of exactly what that something else is, then nothing you say has ANY merit whatsoever. 

      Anything. Literally anything.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Yes, the first half DOES matter. The second half is irrelevant to what I brought up. Aang was almost losing, the gang could've helped him then. Like I said, they could've taken out the airships early. Taking out the fleet early would've prevented any destruction from happening. Aang and Ozai probably would've met at a later point, and the gang could help Aang. I'm not saying they should've defeated Ozai, I'm saying they should've at least helped Aang out. The gang can keep Ozai distracted while Aang defeats him.

      You're trying to say, "based on the first half, I think Aang needs help to beat Ozai." If he then goes on to defeat Ozai WITHOUT help, then the second half of the fight itself proves you wrong. It's as simple as that. 

      You need to tell us exactly what they could have done differently. Otherwise, its worthless speculation.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:



      SorcererSupreme21 wrote: I said they are essentially the same thing.
      But how?
      Look it up.


      No, you tell me.


      VeerusOfDeath wrote:



      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      They could not have helped them, we have already told you, Sokka and Suki as nonbenders would not be able to do anything, and with Ozai flying in the air Toph would have been useless as well. They would've been a burden if anything, as Aang was already having a hard time keeping himself alive. They were all busy destroying the airship fleet TO KEEP AANG FROM HAVING TO DEAL WITH ANYTHING ELSE.
      I'm not saying they had to be directly involved. Like I said, they could've destroyed the airships early. Something else could've happened that Aang and Ozai met, and the whole gang could help Aang.
      How and what?

      Anything. Literally anything.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Yes, the first half DOES matter. The second half is irrelevant to what I brought up. Aang was almost losing, the gang could've helped him then. Like I said, they could've taken out the airships early. Taking out the fleet early would've prevented any destruction from happening. Aang and Ozai probably would've met at a later point, and the gang could help Aang. I'm not saying they should've defeated Ozai, I'm saying they should've at least helped Aang out. The gang can keep Ozai distracted while Aang defeats him.

      You're trying to say, "based on the first half, I think Aang needs help to beat Ozai." If he then goes on to defeat Ozai WITHOUT help, then the second half of the fight itself proves you wrong. It's as simple as that. 

      You need to tell us exactly what they could have done differently. Otherwise, its worthless speculation.

      I said we're not talking about the second half! And I said literally anything.

        Loading editor
    • God

      ɡäd/ noun noun: God; noun: god; plural noun: gods; plural noun: the gods

         [...]
      
         2.
         (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
         "a moon god"
         synonyms:	deity, goddess, divine being, celestial being, divinity, immortal, avatar
      
      "sacrifices to appease the gods"

      Raava is a superhuman spirit with power over nature & human fortune. There are temples dedicated to the Avatar, which constitutes worship.

      Therefore, the Avatar is a god.

      Also, what did you think, they just picked a random word? No, they call Aang, Roku, Kyoshi, etc. Avatars because it describes what they are.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      God

      ɡäd/ noun noun: God; noun: god; plural noun: gods; plural noun: the gods

         [...]
      
         2.
         (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
         "a moon god"
         synonyms:	deity, goddess, divine being, celestial being, divinity, immortal, avatar
      
      "sacrifices to appease the gods"

      Raava is a superhuman spirit with power over nature & human fortune. There are temples dedicated to the Avatar, which constitutes worship.

      Therefore, the Avatar is a god.

      Also, what did you think, they just picked a random word? No, they call Aang, Roku, Kyoshi, etc. Avatars because it describes what they are.

      The Avatar isn't worshipped. He's just viewed as a major hero, as he keeps the world in balance. Raava is suppose to be a spirit of peace and light. The Avatar is a bender with power over all four elements.

        Loading editor
    • I officially give up on this thread.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      I officially give up on this thread.

      Hey, it's not my fault you can't be reasoned with.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      I said we're not talking about the second half! And I said literally anything.

      We're talking about the entire fight. You can't arbitrarily divide this up to use only the parts that suit your argument. Aang won without help. Therefore he didn't need help. If you can't get that through your head, then you are the one who needs help.

      No. Literally anything would not help. Would sneezing help? Coughing? Singing a song? If you cannot tell us a single, concrete example of EXACTLY how they could directly assist Aang against Ozai, WITHOUT materially changing the ENTIRE finale, then you're just fucking wrong.

        Loading editor
    • You are the one who is being stubborn and unreasonable here. Why are you so goddamn dead set on this anyway?

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote: You are the one who is being stubborn and unreasonable here. Why are you so goddamn dead set on this anyway?

      Because he's a troll. I assumed we were all clear on that point.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      You are the one who is being stubborn and unreasonable here. Why are you so goddamn dead set on this anyway?

      No, YOU are.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      I said we're not talking about the second half! And I said literally anything.

      We're talking about the entire fight. You can't arbitrarily divide this up to use only the parts that suit your argument. Aang won without help. Therefore he didn't need help. If you can't get that through your head, then you are the one who needs help.

      No. Literally anything would not help. Would sneezing help? Coughing? Singing a song? If you cannot tell us a single, concrete example of EXACTLY how they could directly assist Aang against Ozai, WITHOUT materially changing the ENTIRE finale, then you're just fucking wrong.

      No, he needed help in the first half. We are NOT talking about the second. Bring it up again and see what happens. I don't need help.

      What part of "anything" did you not understand!?!

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      SorcererSupreme21 wrote: You are the one who is being stubborn and unreasonable here. Why are you so goddamn dead set on this anyway?

      Because he's a troll. I assumed we were all clear on that point.

      No I am not.

        Loading editor
    • You're a troll. Go back under your bridge and die there.

        Loading editor
    • McJediProbie wrote:
      You're a troll. Go back under your bridge and die there.

      No I am not! I am clearly a human!

        Loading editor
    • No you're not, I can see the gem under your shirt & the wispy neon hair under your wig.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      McJediProbie wrote:
      You're a troll. Go back under your bridge and die there.
      No I am not! I am clearly a human!

      An internet troll. Someone who "makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them"

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      No you're not, I can see the gem under your shirt & the wispy neon hair under your wig.

      Trolls don't even know what computers are, let alone how to use them.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      No you're not, I can see the gem under your shirt & the wispy neon hair under your wig.
      Trolls don't even know what computers are, let alone how to use them.

      Did you not see my last post.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      No you're not, I can see the gem under your shirt & the wispy neon hair under your wig.
      Trolls don't even know what computers are, let alone how to use them.
      Did you not see my last post.

      What post?

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      McJediProbie wrote:
      You're a troll. Go back under your bridge and die there.
      No I am not! I am clearly a human!
      An internet troll. Someone who "makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them"
        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      VeerusOfDeath wrote:
      McJediProbie wrote:
      You're a troll. Go back under your bridge and die there.
      No I am not! I am clearly a human!
      An internet troll. Someone who "makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them"

      That is not what a troll is. A troll is a supernatural being with a grotesque appearance.

        Loading editor
    • That's not even a thing.

        Loading editor
    • Click the link.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Click the link.

      Still not a thing.

        Loading editor
    • I'm clearly not a troll. I am a human being. Trolls can't use computers. They don't even know what computers are.

        Loading editor
    • Why are you still denying it even if a Wikipedia page about it exists?

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Why are you still denying it even if a Wikipedia page about it exists?

      That's just a silly thing to say.

        Loading editor
    • How so, may I ask?

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      How so, may I ask?

      The word you're looking for is aggressor. I'm not an agressor or a troll. I'm a human. Trolls are monsters, not aggressors.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      How so, may I ask?

      The word you're looking for is aggressor. I'm not an agressor or a troll. I'm a human. Trolls are monsters, not aggressors.

      Okay, chill out, you fucking racist.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      How so, may I ask?
      The word you're looking for is aggressor. I'm not an agressor or a troll. I'm a human. Trolls are monsters, not aggressors.

      Okay, chill out, you fucking racist.

      Trolls aren't a race, they're a species.

        Loading editor
    • There are two kinds of trolls: a fantasy troll, like the ones from Harry Potter or Middle-Earth, and the internet troll, someone who does the stated-above. Have you never heard of homonyms?

        Loading editor
    • Save it for the cross-burning, Adolf.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Save it for the cross-burning, Adolf.

      Stupid question, but are you referring to me or him?

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      There are two kinds of trolls: a fantasy troll, like the ones from Harry Potter or Middle-Earth, and the internet troll, someone who does the stated-above. Have you never heard of homonyms?

      It's just a stupid way to describe aggressors.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Save it for the cross-burning, Adolf.

      Excuse me!?!

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Save it for the cross-burning, Adolf.

      Excuse me!?!

      You are not excused. Just because you want Irish people to have separate drinking fountains, it doesn't mean the rest of us share your opinion.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:


      VeerusOfDeath wrote:


      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Save it for the cross-burning, Adolf.
      Excuse me!?!
      You are not excused. Just because you want Irish people to have separate drinking fountains, it doesn't mean the rest of us share your opinion.

      I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT!!!!

        Loading editor
    • Yes you did, & I have a quote to prove it:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Okay, chill out, you fucking racist.

      Trolls aren't a race, they're a species. So are the Irish, & that's why they shouldn't drink from the same fountains as we do.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Yes you did, & I have a quote to prove it:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:


      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Okay, chill out, you fucking racist.
      Trolls aren't a race, they're a species. So are the Irish, & that's why they shouldn't drink from the same fountains as we do.

      You just added that onto the comment before you replied. I was never the aggressor, but now YOU'RE being an aggressor.

        Loading editor
    • Well, that escalated quickly.

      I think Veerus is now the new(ish) Narcissus.

        Loading editor
    • That's just a silly thing to say.
        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      Well, that escalated quickly.

      I think Veerus is now the new(ish) Narcissus.

      Excuse me?

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      That's just a silly thing to say.

      Don't tell me what's silly and what's not, aggressor.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      That's just a silly thing to say.

      Don't tell me what's silly and what's not, aggressor.

      http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=103605266

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      That's just a silly thing to say.
      Don't tell me what's silly and what's not, aggressor.

      http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=103605266

      And you think my actions were bad.

        Loading editor
    • VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      That's just a silly thing to say.
      Don't tell me what's silly and what's not, aggressor.

      http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=103605266

      And you think my actions were bad.

      Well, yeah, you wanted to initiate a pogrom on the citizens of Mordor.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      VeerusOfDeath wrote:


      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      That's just a silly thing to say.
      Don't tell me what's silly and what's not, aggressor.
      http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=103605266
      And you think my actions were bad.

      Well, yeah, you wanted to initiate a pogrom on the citizens of Mordor.

      Ok, now I know you're just making stuff up.

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      http://i.imgur.com/VGe9Anu.png

      Stop being such a dickbag!

        Loading editor
    • Ok, now I know you're just making stuff up.

      Responses:

      That's just a silly thing to say.
      No, YOU are.
      Hey, it's not my fault you can't be reasoned with.
        Loading editor
    • Can we please get this thread back on track lest it be closed? Additionally, @VeerusOfDeath, please do not use such language on this wiki in regards to another person. You're welcome to give our Avatar Wiki:Discussion policy another read.

        Loading editor
    • Lady Lostris wrote:
      Can we please get this thread back on track lest it be closed? Additionally, @VeerusOfDeath, please do not use such language on this wiki in regards to another person. You're welcome to give our Avatar Wiki:Discussion policy another read.

      That's easy for you to say. They didn't harass you!

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Ok, now I know you're just making stuff up.

      Responses:


      That's just a silly thing to say.
      No, YOU are.
      Hey, it's not my fault you can't be reasoned with.

      Stop stealing my quotes!

        Loading editor
    • If you feel harassed, then report it to the administrators, but resorting to foul language is never the solution, especially not on this wiki.

      Additionally, if you feel like you cannot reason civilly with another user, it may be best to just ignore each other and try to have as little interaction with one another as possible. That has generally proven to be a working tactic on the internet :-)

        Loading editor
    • Stop stealing my quotes!

      Stop saying things that make it easy to sidestep refutations.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Stop stealing my quotes!

      Stop saying things that make it easy to sidestep refutations.

      Shut up, aggressor.

        Loading editor
    • Lady Lostris wrote:
      If you feel harassed, then report it to the administrators, but resorting to foul language is never the solution, especially not on this wiki.

      Additionally, if you feel like you cannot reason civilly with another user, it may be best to just ignore each other and try to have as little interaction with one another as possible. That has generally proven to be a working tactic on the internet :-)

      I have an anger problem.

        Loading editor
    • Clearly. Among other things. But obviously I cannot shut because I am not a door, & according to you, colloquialisms do not exist.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Clearly. Among other things. But obviously I cannot shut because I am not a door, & according to you, colloquialisms do not exist.

      As well as homonyms.

        Loading editor
    • Guys, can we please get back on track? Otherwise I'll just decide that this thread has run its course and shut it down.

        Loading editor
    • Lady Lostris wrote: Guys, can we please get back on track? Otherwise I'll just decide that this thread has run its course and shut it down.

      We answered his question already. In excruciating detail. Not only did he not want to hear it, he went to ridiculous extremes to deny it, such as claiming that sneezing could have helped defeat Ozai, or temples are not places of worship.

      That was kind of the whole point of my "racist against trolls" thing, I can literally copy his responses to defend whatever insane shit I want. Because there's nothing actually there, it's just "[ridiculous statement], prove me wrong."

      If this thread ever had a course to begin with, it's run so far that it's left the observable universe.

        Loading editor
    • You make a point there. Thanks, Neo. I'm closing this thread.

        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message

Ad blocker interference detected!


Wikia is a free-to-use site that makes money from advertising. We have a modified experience for viewers using ad blockers

Wikia is not accessible if you’ve made further modifications. Remove the custom ad blocker rule(s) and the page will load as expected.