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  • Just finished reading my copy and I've got to say, this is shaping up to be my favorite of the comic trilogies so far. Wondering what everyone else's thoughts were.

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    • Middle-part syndrome. Not much to say.

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    • Kinda concerned about potential retcon the backstory of the Fire Nation introduces.

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    • Maybe the Kemurikage are possessing human bodies.


      As to why they want Zuko removed from the throne...

      Since they are Dark Spirits, they could be similar to Vaatu. Vaatu himself feeds off negative emotions (he says "to hate me is to give me breath"), so maybe these spirits feed off negative emotions as well. 

      If Ozai is put back on the throne, he's likley to restart the war, that's when emotions such as fear, discord, and hate are at their finest, giving these spirits plenty of sustencance. 


      But that's just my opinion.


      Also, I don't trust Kei Lo. Something about him just makes me suspecious. 

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    • Well, it seems to me this confirms my suspicions about Azula being behind it and them not really being spirits, if the ending is an indication. I predict that next issue will be the end of the line for Azula, one way or another.

      I'm a bit sad that Kiyi is reacting to Ursa the way she is; I mean, I get why she's acting that way, but I really hope they can come to a resolution on that. On the romantic front, Mai seems like she's still a bit stuck on Zuko, even though she has Kei Lo now. Hope they get that resolved next issue.

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      Well, it seems to me this confirms my suspicions about Azula being behind it and them not really being spirits, if the ending is an indication. I predict that next issue will be the end of the line for Azula, one way or another.

      I'm a bit sad that Kiyi is reacting to Ursa the way she is; I mean, I get why she's acting that way, but I really hope they can come to a resolution on that. On the romantic front, Mai seems like she's still a bit stuck on Zuko, even though she has Kei Lo now. Hope they get that resolved next issue.

      We don't know if it really is Azula.

      She's not the only Firebender who can use Lightning.

      If it is, perhaps she's being manipulated by someone else or somethinge else. Maybe she got a new face and new memories? 


      I don't trust Kei Lo. I don't know why, but he just seems too innocent. I have a feeling that there's something else going on here.

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    • Hmm... I'm thinking it really is Azula (the hand does resemble hers quite a bit) and she's just using Ukano as a way to get Zuko off the throne. Which would be an interesting twist, because I'm guessing she would much rather put herself in Zuko's place than help her father.

      As for Kei Lo, I actually do trust the guy. But mostly only because I trust Ty Lee's judgment. I'm kind of hoping Mai does break up with him, as she seems to be in the relationship for all the wrong reasons.

      Assuming it is Azula, I'm a bit worried for Kiyi. Azula still hates her for being Ursa's "replacement" daughter. Even if the other kids are being kept somewhere safe, I can't imagine Azula treating her kindly.

      I really hope Ursa yells at Zuko for letting Kiyi sleep by herself. She's been moping around too much. (I can see where Zuko gets his angsting from!)

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    • Back in "The Search", Azula DID leave that letter that would have gotten Zuko dethroned. Plus there was that whole thing we're Zuko stated that despite their SERIOUSLY messed up relationship, she's still his sister and he does indeed love her.

      She ran away after that, because it actually had a big impact on her.

      If it IS Azula, maybe she's being manipulated as a pawn for someone else, or she got a new face with new memories like Ursa did. 


      There's just still ALOT out there that we don't know, so anything can happen.

      Personlay, I hope Azula does make amends to Zuko. I agree that she's no angel, but if you look at it deep enough, in the end she was just another one of Ozai's pawns.


      As for Kei Lo, true that Ty-Lee has good judgement, but still, I just got a wierd feeling about him. Maybe he's a sleeper agent (like how Jet was), or maybe he might die or something.


      I kinda do hope Zuko and Mai get back together as they are my second-fav pairing in this series (first being Aang and Katara)

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    • I haven't read it yet, but from reading the summary I knew Azula was behind it all along. I think next part, Azula will probably be put in her place for good. If anyone knows a website where I could read this online, I would appreciate it.

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    • PercyJacksonfan12 wrote: I haven't read it yet, but from reading the summary I knew Azula was behind it all along. I think next part, Azula will probably be put in her place for good. If anyone knows a website where I could read this online, I would appreciate it.

      I don't believe there's any legal way to read the entire comic online. (There's previews available, if you want to read the first few pages.)

      The book will be available at online retailers within a week. Purchase a copy. The more people do that, the more likely it is these comics will continue.

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    • It's starting to look more and more like Star Wars: The Force Awakens. I can see the parallels--New Ozai Society is like the First Order because they want to restore the empire, Mai is like Rey because they're the leading female figure, and Kei Lo is like Finn, because he was once a member of the New Ozai Societym but defects.

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    • I can see the parallels between this and the new Star Wars movie, but I dont think the writters intended it to be like that.

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    • Avatar is very much like Star Wars already. There are plenty of websites that note these similarities

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    • PercyJacksonfan12 wrote: I haven't read it yet, but from reading the summary I knew Azula was behind it all along. I think next part, Azula will probably be put in her place for good. If anyone knows a website where I could read this online, I would appreciate it.

      Even better, it's out in comic stores now, no week long delivery.

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    • Finally managed to find somewhere to read it--& I haven't seen Force Awakens yet either, so let's not go there without a Spoiler Alert--&, wow, holy shit.

      To be honest, I was way more interested in the Dragonbone Catacombs stuff than the main plot. We haven't really gotten that kind of background on anything since Beginnings. Are those actual dragon skulls in that hall? Are the Fire Lords buried behind them, or something? And now we know that the Fire Sage who tried to help Aang is head of the capital temple.

      Either way, we can finally, finally put to bed the debate about whether Dark Spirits are slaves of Vaatu or just a general term for a hostile spirit. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I was right.

      The main plot...yeah, I'm still not so fond of that. We pretty much all called it, Azula became a Scooby Doo villain. It's predictable, it's contrived, & it's just serving as a way to develop more tension with Zuko. Though I guess something we don't quite know is where the other girls came from.

      I'd agree with whomever said that Mai is in a relationship for the wrong reasons, but quite frankly I've recently been convinced that was true of her & Zuko as well. Still, I have to say, the writers could still surprise me (not that they really have so far), but the way this is proceeding, Kei Lo feels a lot like Ikem 2.0: Not really going to change much in the long run, just here to stir up drama before the Status Quo is reinstated. I like that everyone's putting aside their personal issues to resolve the crisis, though. Except, apparently, when it comes to giving Zuko shit for not letting people set up a lawless mob in his absence.

      All things considered, my thoughts are basically the same as they were for the previous installment: I don't think the story is as good as The Search or The Rift, but as long as it keeps giving us Fire Nation background & development, I'm fine with it.

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    • Iron117Prime wrote:
      QueenCeline wrote:
      Well, it seems to me this confirms my suspicions about Azula being behind it and them not really being spirits, if the ending is an indication. I predict that next issue will be the end of the line for Azula, one way or another.
      We don't know if it really is Azula.

      She's not the only Firebender who can use Lightning.

      End of the line? You someone mean killing Azula? How many established characters have they killed off in the Avatar series (not including Korra as I'm not as familiar with it)? Just Jet and Zhao (possibly), I believe. They didn't even kill off Ozai, who frankly would deserve it the most. I could see her being thrown in prison to "rot," if that's what you mean by end of the line.

      And we don't know if it's Azula or not (though I would bet it is). The Rift comics already showed a vast transition in technically on the path to the Korra universe. Lightning generation was common practice for any firebender in Korra. Therefore, it could really be anyone. But yeah, most likely Azula.

      I noticed the similarities between Star Wars and Avatar before. I think it's no coincidence that two those are my favorite series. Mark Hamill doesn't help haha. This comic specifically with The Force Awakens, though? Ehh, I don't see it. I guess I just can't stop comparing it to A New Hope, because there was no denying that it was rather a rehash, executed excellently. ;)

      The main plot...yeah, I'm still not so fond of that. We pretty much all called it, Azula became a Scooby Doo villain. It's predictable, it's contrived, & it's just serving as a way to develop more tension with Zuko. Though I guess something we don't quite know is where the other girls came from.

      I agree. It's very boring for her character. If there was good in Zuko, then I am to believe Azula, a teenager, could somehow come around to her "normal" self too again and learn to live "rather peacefully" (using this in the context of her past personality) amongst supportive friends and mother... Also, is she really in the state mind to lead such planned attacks?

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    • I rather disagree with the conclusion that lightning isn't an identifying characteristic. In the original series, there was no indication that anyone other than the royal family knew the technique, & even in Legend of Korra, there were easily less than 10 firebenders to have used it. If it's not Azula, it was probably someone taught by her.

      I suppose it's possible that she didn't come up with the scheme, & was merely exploited by the Bigger Bad after her fall from grace, but I don't see who else would have a motive. Ozai, I guess, but this seems a bit complex for him.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      I rather disagree with the conclusion that lightning isn't an identifying characteristic. In the original series, there was no indication that anyone other than the royal family knew the technique, & even in Legend of Korra, there were easily less than 10 firebenders to have used it. If it's not Azula, it was probably someone taught by her.


      Wasn't electricity generation done by firebenders using lightning at power plants in Korra? It was implied that is was common practice and employed many.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      To be honest, I was way more interested in the Dragonbone Catacombs stuff than the main plot. We haven't really gotten that kind of background on anything since Beginnings. Are those actual dragon skulls in that hall? Are the Fire Lords buried behind them, or something? And now we know that the Fire Sage who tried to help Aang is head of the capital temple.

      The main plot...yeah, I'm still not so fond of that. We pretty much all called it, Azula became a Scooby Doo villain. It's predictable, it's contrived, & it's just serving as a way to develop more tension with Zuko. Though I guess something we don't quite know is where the other girls came from.

      I'd agree with whomever said that Mai is in a relationship for the wrong reasons, but quite frankly I've recently been convinced that was true of her & Zuko as well. 

      I agree with everything you said (too lazy to fully quote your post, heh), and honestly the Fire Nation lore is what saved this story from completely falling flat for me. I'm not the biggest fan of the diretion this comic has taken, and The Rift to me is still the most cohesive trilogy.

      I'm really not liking the love triangle because if the point was proving that Mai and Zuko are soulmates that should spend etenity together, it had the complete opposite effect on me. Having Mai for one lie about her dad's involvement in the NOS (while I understand her reasons for doing it), makes her a hypocrite and hard to feel sympathy for when she screams at Zuko for breaking her heart twice. If you break up with someone for keeping secrets, why should I take pity on you for keeping secrets for the same reason (trying to protect those you care about)?

      Not only that, but taking passive-aggressive pot shots, dating someone for the wrong reasons, getting jealous because your ex is 'happy with someone else,' and getting into an argument when one person is expressing their inner feelings (though badly timed) isn't convincing me Mai and Zuko should get back together. Neither one of them IMO should date anyone at the moment until they work on their trust issues. I also found the Zuki scene a little jarring, because people say Zuko needs to learn to communicate to Mai about his problems, and yet he has no problem opening up to Suki about personal things?

      The Azula plotline is concerning because I'm not convinced she is of the mental state to be pulling this scheme off, so I'm going to assume the two other girls are more of the masterminds? Kind of have to wonder why two other people would motivated to usurp Zuko. I'm fine with Azula being coerced to aid the 'Kemurikage' but the suspension of disbelief will kick in if she's the lead. I also would hope she could have a sort of redemption, but not your prototypical 'sympathy garnering' one. 

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    • ElephantSpice wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      I rather disagree with the conclusion that lightning isn't an identifying characteristic. In the original series, there was no indication that anyone other than the royal family knew the technique, & even in Legend of Korra, there were easily less than 10 firebenders to have used it. If it's not Azula, it was probably someone taught by her.


      Wasn't electricity generation done by firebenders using lightning at power plants in Korra? It was implied that is was common practice and employed many.

      "Common" is relative. We know there are enough metalbenders to make a substantial police & manufacturing force in Republic City, yet Bolin tells us that only about "1 in 100" earthbenders become metalbenders. I'd say 1% of the population isn't all that common, but in a population of millions, yeah there's going to be a lot, possibly even enough to make an industry out of.

      I agree with everything you said

      I agree with your agreement.

      Having Mai for one lie about her dad's involvement in the NOS (while I understand her reasons for doing it), makes her a hypocrite and hard to feel sympathy for when she screams at Zuko for breaking her heart twice. If you break up with someone for keeping secrets, why should I take pity on you for keeping secrets for the same reason (trying to protect those you care about)?

      Hadn't even thought of that.

      Yeah, lying about her dad's involvement in a shady organization, when she is literally anticipating that he's somehow involved in the kidnappings, is kind of messed up. I just didn't think to mention it because I don't think we're supposed to approve of that.

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    • Well, that was predictable. Still awesome though, though I liked the previous trilogies better. I especially enjoyed the stuff about the founding of the Fire Nation, though. 

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    • I feel so gullible. Every time someone says something is predictable in a book, it's always something I never saw coming. ^_^;;

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    • It was kind of neat we got to see the first fire lord, But was this durring wans (after harmonic convergence)time or a bit after? I'm guessing after. But anyway it was solid, I like that the story doesn't revolve around aang, yet he's still needed.

      I'm pretty sure that was Azula . Ozai is probaly behind all of this.

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    • One thing is still bugging me about this plotline. The New Ozai Society wants to kill Zuko because in their minds with him gone and Azula missing, the thrones goes Ozai. But if Zuko dies without issue, logically wouldn't Iroh get the throne?

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    • Perception1 wrote:
      One thing is still bugging me about this plotline. The New Ozai Society wants to kill Zuko because in their minds with him gone and Azula missing, the thrones goes Ozai. But if Zuko dies without issue, logically wouldn't Iroh get the throne?

      I don't really know who would technically be next in line. However, I think their plan is a rather overthrow of the entire monarchy, and then putting Ozai back on the throne in a new monarchy line, if that makes sense. Much how like the English crown has had different "houses" (families ruling) throughout the years, I think... but monarchy structure isn't my strong suit.

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    • @Spice But Ozai and Zuko are from the same "house", the same bloodline. Ozai being back on the throne wouldn't be a "new monarchy" but more of the same. But my problem is how they try to rationalize Ozai's possible return. They framed it as being inevitable should Zuko die, because Ozai is the only remaining member of royal blood since Azula is gone. It sounds like they just.....forgot Iroh is alive.

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    • Perception1 wrote: One thing is still bugging me about this plotline. The New Ozai Society wants to kill Zuko because in their minds with him gone and Azula missing, the thrones goes Ozai. But if Zuko dies without issue, logically wouldn't Iroh get the throne?

      Iroh has refused to take the throne on any kind of a permanent basis. Zuko asked him right before Sozin's comet and he said no. Whether that became public knowledge or not is open to debate, but since Iroh is now back in the Earth Kingdom, I don't think the New Ozai Society is wrong in thinking that A) Ozai could seize power before Iroh had the chance to return and B) even if Iroh did return and fight his brother for the throne, Ozai would probably be the victor.

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    • @Katrinasforest

      Remember that Ozai lost his firebending, so I don't really think he fight anyone (firebender, that is) and win.

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    • @Katrinas Iroh refused the throne when it came from Zuko though. But in this scenario that the NOS wants to bring about, Zuko is dead. Iroh helped take down Ozai and his government, by backing and supporting Zuko and his new regime. They should have no reason to believe that he won't oppose his brother's return to power.

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    • Re Azula: I saw in a tumblr post some images from The Search, where the Ursa hallucination talked to Azula about her destiny, and only THEN did I realize that it paralleled (sp?) what Iroh said to Zuko.

      I think Azula, if not in this series, will get better somehow. Zuko said he wanted to help her, and Ursa is definitely worried about her. Also, I think she's redeemable because unlike Ozai (supposedly, we don't know a thing about Ozai's childhood but I assume he grew up fearing his father and believing no one cared about him, so he passed those "lessons" onto his kids), Azula has people who have proven they care for her. Ursa I think tried to but then she was banished, but Mai and Ty Lee care about her, and I think she really did care for them because she was pretty hurt when they betrayed her. Also, Zuko said in The Search that he wanted to help her, again.

      Also, I don't think Ozai will make an appearance, but I'm thinking in another series they'll probably bring him back just to kill him off, either by an accident or at the hands of another baddie.

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    • SaeryenKatten wrote:
      Re Azula: I saw in a tumblr post some images from The Search, where the Ursa hallucination talked to Azula about her destiny, and only THEN did I realize that it paralleled (sp?) what Iroh said to Zuko.

      I think Azula, if not in this series, will get better somehow. Zuko said he wanted to help her, and Ursa is definitely worried about her. Also, I think she's redeemable because unlike Ozai (supposedly, we don't know a thing about Ozai's childhood but I assume he grew up fearing his father and believing no one cared about him, so he passed those "lessons" onto his kids), Azula has people who have proven they care for her. Ursa I think tried to but then she was banished, but Mai and Ty Lee care about her, and I think she really did care for them because she was pretty hurt when they betrayed her. Also, Zuko said in The Search that he wanted to help her, again.

      Also, I don't think Ozai will make an appearance, but I'm thinking in another series they'll probably bring him back just to kill him off, either by an accident or at the hands of another baddie.

      That is EXACTLY what I think. I really do believe that Azula has the chance for redemption. I'm glad someone else on here does.

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    • I really hope they do not give Azula a redemption arc. It would undermine all the great things she did as a villain. The most logical thing Zuko should consider doing is having her incarcerated again, be it in an actual prison or back in a mental institution, and request Aang to have her firebending removed, as that would make her significantly less dangerous to everyone.

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    • I can't honestly picture Azula getting a redemption arc until she recieves some genuinely helpful therapy. She's suffering from some serious mental health issues. The institution Zuko put her in didn't help at all. Only other option I can see is spiritual. Like some kind of peace spirit that heals her psyche.

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    • Perception1 wrote:
      I can't honestly picture Azula getting a redemption arc until she recieves some genuinely helpful therapy. She's suffering from some serious mental health issues. The institution Zuko put her in didn't help at all. Only other option I can see is spiritual. Like some kind of peace spirit that heals her psyche.

      Or maybe just a hug.

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    • If that hug comes with a couple hundred milligrams of Amisulpride, then maybe.

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    • My thoughts there are that it's really hard to "redeem" a villain without it just coming across as a cheap, unrealistic slap on the wrist, especially so the bigger the hole they've dug for themselves.

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    • Perception1 wrote:
      I can't honestly picture Azula getting a redemption arc until she recieves some genuinely helpful therapy. She's suffering from some serious mental health issues. The institution Zuko put her in didn't help at all. Only other option I can see is spiritual. Like some kind of peace spirit that heals her psyche.

      I agree. If she's still crazy, then I don't really see a redemption arc; she has to get back to her old mind, first. I was hoping she would find that face-changing/memory-changing spirit in the forest, and she would "twist and fix" her mind for her.

      Omnibender wrote:
      I really hope they do not give Azula a redemption arc. It would undermine all the great things she did as a villain. The most logical thing Zuko should consider doing is having her incarcerated again, be it in an actual prison or back in a mental institution, and request Aang to have her firebending removed, as that would make her significantly less dangerous to everyone.

      I don't see how it undermines her. The creators gave us great character development that doesn't place her in the 2-demensional villain category. That's when it undermines/feels unrealistic. On the other hand, Azula has been rathered humanized for us over the series. As others have pointed out, I believe there is a legitimate chance for redemption. It's not like Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee never have gotten along and hate each other (RE "The Beach"). They are very much friends.

      What I don't understand is why Azula would be fighting for Ozai. I know she wants the throne, but Ozai is part of the reason she completely lost it, when she realized that she was just a power pawn for her father and he didn't really care about her. Yes, Azula, your father can treat you just like Zuko, because he doesn't care about you either... Logically, I don't think she would too keen on him anymore.

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    • Well, to start, Azula has never demonstrated a shred of regret for all of the people she's used, threatened, & tried to kill. She had the chance to run away & start a new life, & apparently did not take it, opting instead to kidnap children, including Mai's nephew, & attack her brother again. For her to just suddenly decide in S/S 3 that she's the Grinch Who Stole Christmas & she's sorry would be pretty out of nowhere, nor would I buy the others accepting it so easily.

      I also don't see how getting her back to her old state of mind would help. She was just as vicious before her hallucinations, if not more so, & definitely more culpable.

      Additionally, just because they got along at times does not mean that they're really "friends," particularly not in the more meaningful sense of the world. Ty Lee's made it pretty apparent that she doesn't even want to be around Azula, & Mai doesn't seem to miss her either. Understandable, considering the last time they talked, Azula just about executed her.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Well, to start, Azula has never demonstrated a shred of regret for all of the people she's used, threatened, & tried to kill. She had the chance to run away & start a new life, & apparently did not take it, opting instead to kidnap children, including Mai's nephew, & attack her brother again. For her to just suddenly decide in S/S 3 that she's the Grinch Who Stole Christmas & she's sorry would be pretty out of nowhere, nor would I buy the others accepting it so easily.

      That's why I'm not liking this story so far. Why bring her back in? Like you said previously, it just makes her a scooby-doo villain. In the series, she was not violent towards those on her side. She went from fighting Zuko, to living with him, to fighting with him. I was just pointing out that getting her back in her original state of mind might take her out of the current "hurt everyone" state.

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    • I guess I can see that, but I still think that would only solve so much.

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    • I actually never thought a Azula redemption arc would involve her apologizing or feeling regretful for her deeds. Most I ever expected was she'd reconcile with her brother and mother. She doesn't need to become a saint.

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    • Perception1 wrote: @Katrinas Iroh refused the throne when it came from Zuko though. But in this scenario that the NOS wants to bring about, Zuko is dead. Iroh helped take down Ozai and his government, by backing and supporting Zuko and his new regime. They should have no reason to believe that he won't oppose his brother's return to power.

      True enough, but I still have my doubts that Iroh could defeat Ozai in a battle. He says himself that he's not sure he could. And the New Ozai Society is probably planning to free Ozai the second Zuko goes down, making it difficult for Iroh to seize power.

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    • But Ozai can't firebend anymore.

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    • I'm not sure how we're defining "redemption."

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    • Perception1 wrote: But Ozai can't firebend anymore.

      Oh. Wow... I forget major plot points.

      Completely ignore what I said earlier. I have no clue what their plans are to deal with Iroh.

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    • Perception1 wrote:
      I actually never thought a Azula redemption arc would involve her apologizing or feeling regretful for her deeds. Most I ever expected was she'd reconcile with her brother and mother. She doesn't need to become a saint.


      I think the best way to do it without ruining her character is have her redeemed but still be snarky and pompous and not guilty about breaking any "rules." She can be a good person without having to be a nice person.

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    • SaeryenKatten wrote:
      Perception1 wrote:
      I actually never thought a Azula redemption arc would involve her apologizing or feeling regretful for her deeds. Most I ever expected was she'd reconcile with her brother and mother. She doesn't need to become a saint.

      I think the best way to do it without ruining her character is have her redeemed but still be snarky and pompous and not guilty about breaking any "rules." She can be a good person without having to be a nice person.

      This is exactly what I envisioned. Not being sorry for her actions but not being crazy evil, either.

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    • But a good person would feel regretful for their actions. I don't think Azula will ever become a "good" person per say, but if she reconciles with her family (reconciliation fits better than redemption for me) perhaps she can become a more neutral character.

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    • Everything is gonna' be alright in the end, just things won't be so easy between characters. I don't know you but, after reading this: http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135561159651/we-need-to-talk-about-maiko , and think it for a moment, at least personally, Zuko and Mai relationship really does not work and they shouldn't get back together.

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    • About the whole thing where Mai lied about her father, do remember that she is a teenager/young adult which means she isn't the best decision maker, none of these characters are. Also, she didn't know what would happen if she told the truth; he might have been killed for that, and as awful as he is I understand how Mai doesn't want to instigate her own father's death. (Also, if you think about how Mai shouldn't care about him, remember Zuko cared for Ozai for a long time after Ozai scarred him, so this stuff is not easy at all) I think we should give a girl some slack for wanting her father to live...

      What do people think of my theory that Ozai will die soon (if not here, in another comic)? Because if we don't ever see him again then we're left with questions about his still being a threat because he's a terrible person and he has his loyalists. I think it would be sloppy writing to just leave that threat hanging there. (I don't think any heroes will kill Ozai because that would completely negate the point of ATLA's finale)

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    • SaeryenKatten wrote: About the whole thing where Mai lied about her father, do remember that she is a teenager/young adult which means she isn't the best decision maker, none of these characters are. Also, she didn't know what would happen if she told the truth; he might have been killed for that, and as awful as he is I understand how Mai doesn't want to instigate her own father's death. (Also, if you think about how Mai shouldn't care about him, remember Zuko cared for Ozai for a long time after Ozai scarred him, so this stuff is not easy at all) I think we should give a girl some slack for wanting her father to live...

      What do people think of my theory that Ozai will die soon (if not here, in another comic)? Because if we don't ever see him again then we're left with questions about his still being a threat because he's a terrible person and he has his loyalists. I think it would be sloppy writing to just leave that threat hanging there. (I don't think any heroes will kill Ozai because that would completely negate the point of ATLA's finale)

      I understand that, but the point is, even if Mai didn't intend any of these things, it doesn't change the fact that she prefered to keep quite about his father's envolvement in Zuko's Family atempt of asassination instead to bring him to the justice(i doubt they would get him killed, they didn't do that so neither with Ozai or Azula, so thinking of him killed is not very factible) , plus, letting him keep doing his stuff(specially now kiyi's kidnapping), Ursa was really worried about Kiyi's fate alongside with her own preasure to be back in her own prison(the palace), if Kiyi is kidnapped, Ursa could get really emotionally shocked, not necesarily die of heart atrack, but she certainly would lose her mind. If that happens before Zuko finds out about Mai's lie, i really doubt he could ever forgive her for that, or at least not keeping romantic feelings for her anymore, afterall, the lack of comunication is what made them broke up.

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    • LFRO wrote: Everything is gonna' be alright in the end, just things won't be so easy between characters. I don't know you but, after reading this: http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135561159651/we-need-to-talk-about-maiko , and think it for a moment, at least personally, Zuko and Mai relationship really does not work and they shouldn't get back together.

      I find it interesting that this sentiment seems to be spreading like wildfire, or at least more talked about now than it was before. As I've said before, I originally wanted them to get back together just so we could get past the manufactured drama & because I'm not a big fan of undoing major conclusions from the main series in supplemental material, but after all of the compelling arguments people have made on the topic, I can't really endorse that position anymore. There's never been a time where Maiko was really "stable."

      The bitter irony about Mai's lie is that, not only is she doing what she criticized Zuko for, but he apparently trusts her so much that he doesn't even investigate Ukano. When Zuko finally turns to Mai for help, it's a disaster. That is not going to be easy to smooth over. I realize they aren't presently dating, but the point remains, this is the kind of thing that drives relationships of any kind further apart.

      And in a more realistic setting, Mai would be in pretty deep legal trouble, too. I'm a little curious to see how Zuko's going to resolve all of this without pissing off the nobility. Either way, the Ozai protesters are just like the Yu Dao protesters: Just have to keep handling the problems as they occur, & it'll eventually fizzle out.

      The big problem I have with that post is that it tends to conflate "shouldn't" with "won't." I think the writer knows it won't necessarily work out like she predicts, but if every couple would just call it quits when it makes sense, we wouldn't have had Makorra, or the Boleska & Masami "reunions."

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      LFRO wrote: Everything is gonna' be alright in the end, just things won't be so easy between characters. I don't know you but, after reading this: http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135561159651/we-need-to-talk-about-maiko , and think it for a moment, at least personally, Zuko and Mai relationship really does not work and they shouldn't get back together.

      I find it interesting that this sentiment seems to be spreading like wildfire, or at least more talked about now than it was before. As I've said before, I originally wanted them to get back together just so we could get past the manufactured drama & because I'm not a big fan of undoing major conclusions from the main series in supplemental material, but after all of the compelling arguments people have made on the topic, I can't really endorse that position anymore. There's never been a time where Maiko was really "stable."

      The bitter irony about Mai's lie is that, not only is she doing what she criticized Zuko for, but he apparently trusts her so much that he doesn't even investigate Ukano. When Zuko finally turns to Mai for help, it's a disaster. That is not going to be easy to smooth over. I realize they aren't presently dating, but the point remains, this is the kind of thing that drives relationships of any kind further apart.

      And in a more realistic setting, Mai would be in pretty deep legal trouble, too. I'm a little curious to see how Zuko's going to resolve all of this without pissing off the nobility. Either way, the Ozai protesters are just like the Yu Dao protesters: Just have to keep handling the problems as they occur, & it'll eventually fizzle out.

      The big problem I have with that post is that it tends to conflate "shouldn't" with "won't." I think the writer knows it won't necessarily work out like she predicts, but if every couple would just call it quits when it makes sense, we wouldn't have had Makorra, or the Boleska & Masami "reunions."

      As well, this other one has made me doubtful about the interactions between Zuko and Suki and how they can affect the "Sukka" pairing : http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135627613321/about-zuki

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      LFRO wrote: Everything is gonna' be alright in the end, just things won't be so easy between characters. I don't know you but, after reading this: http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135561159651/we-need-to-talk-about-maiko , and think it for a moment, at least personally, Zuko and Mai relationship really does not work and they shouldn't get back together.

      I'm not a big fan of undoing major conclusions from the main series in supplemental material, but after all of the compelling arguments people have made on the topic, I can't really endorse that position anymore. There's never been a time where Maiko was really "stable."

      This is exactly why I can't get behind their breakup. I personally can still endorse Maiko (even though I completely see where people are coming from), because I just don't like the idea of changing relationship canon that was found at the end of the actual show.

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    • This is exactly why I can't get behind their breakup. I personally can still endorse Maiko (even though I completely see where people are coming from), because I just don't like the idea of changing relationship canon that was found at the end of the actual show.

      It doesn't make sense to cling to a writing decision that doesn't work just because that's how the show ended.

      Zukki or Suko or whatever we're calling it, however, I do not endorse. The thing is, unlike Maiko, whose comic problems are basically just a continuation of their main series problems, everything in the comics about Suki's interactions with Zuko & Sokka have been retconned in.

      The only thing stopping Sokka from going to visit her is the Gene Yang.* The only thing stopping them from moving into Yu Dao or something is Gene Yang. The only one giving Suki & Zuko all of these personal moments is Gene Yang.

      And in spite of that, I still think it's a rather cherry picked list. There are no indications that Suki & Sokka are actually having trouble. Appa can traverse the world in a few days, it's no trouble at all for Sokka to see her, unless they're busy with something else (which they're both supposed to be). On top of that, I think "sure" is a pretty muted response to some kid asking if you think your body guard is hot.

      • =No, I don't know that Mike & Bryan haven't changed their minds, I'm making the point that all of this started when Gene Yang started writing.
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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      No, I don't know that Mike & Bryan haven't changed their minds, I'm making the point that all of this started when Gene Yang started writing.

      Gene Yang worked with Mike and Bryan on the plot points, and they have endorsed whatever he has put out in the comics. In any case, don't blame any of them for this. Integrating Kyoshi Warriors with the Fire Nation is a corporate directive. Gene Yang only has to come up with a sensible story that leads to this endgame. If it means sinking the Maiko ship, so be it.

      BTW, does the armor for Toz's warriors look familiar to any of you? Lixa.gif

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    • SaeryenKatten wrote:
      What do people think of my theory that Ozai will die soon (if not here, in another comic)? Because if we don't ever see him again then we're left with questions about his still being a threat because he's a terrible person and he has his loyalists. I think it would be sloppy writing to just leave that threat hanging there. (I don't think any heroes will kill Ozai because that would completely negate the point of ATLA's finale)

      Since no one has addressed it...

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    • ElephantSpice wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      LFRO wrote: Everything is gonna' be alright in the end, just things won't be so easy between characters. I don't know you but, after reading this: http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135561159651/we-need-to-talk-about-maiko , and think it for a moment, at least personally, Zuko and Mai relationship really does not work and they shouldn't get back together.

      I'm not a big fan of undoing major conclusions from the main series in supplemental material, but after all of the compelling arguments people have made on the topic, I can't really endorse that position anymore. There's never been a time where Maiko was really "stable."
      This is exactly why I can't get behind their breakup. I personally can still endorse Maiko (even though I completely see where people are coming from), because I just don't like the idea of changing relationship canon that was found at the end of the actual show.

      I agree with this; while I acknowledge Maiko has it's problems (what couple doesn't?), I'd rather they not make such a radical change to canon in what's supposed to be a continuation of the original series; it just feels wrong.

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    • Gene Yang worked with Mike and Bryan on the plot points, and they have endorsed whatever he has put out in the comics.

      Nowhere did they suggest they've combed every individual panel for the minutiae that the Tumblr post suggests, & if they were going to cause shipping drama, they'd have been up front about it by now, like they have been every other time they've rearranged the pairings in the franchise.

      Thus, it can be inferred that this is how Gene Yang is choosing to write the characters for whatever reason.

      In any case, don't blame any of them for this. Integrating Kyoshi Warriors with the Fire Nation is a corporate directive.

      No evidence for this.

      BTW, does the armor for Toz's warriors look familiar to any of you? Lixa.gif

      I don't even know who "Toz" is.

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    • SaeryenKatten wrote:

      SaeryenKatten wrote:
      What do people think of my theory that Ozai will die soon (if not here, in another comic)? Because if we don't ever see him again then we're left with questions about his still being a threat because he's a terrible person and he has his loyalists. I think it would be sloppy writing to just leave that threat hanging there. (I don't think any heroes will kill Ozai because that would completely negate the point of ATLA's finale)

      Since no one has addressed it...

      Ozai clearly is gonna' die, a villain as evil and as relevant as he is isn't going to just rott in prison until his last days, that isn't a decent punishment karma would give someone like him.

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    • I didn't address it because I don't see why it keeps coming up. Ozai is irrelevant. Just because a bunch of morons want to put him back on the throne doesn't mean he's any kind of threat. Bringing him back in just to kill him off would be random & unnecessary. Let him stay in that filthy hole where he belongs.

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    • QueenCeline wrote:

      ElephantSpice wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      LFRO wrote: Everything is gonna' be alright in the end, just things won't be so easy between characters. I don't know you but, after reading this: http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135561159651/we-need-to-talk-about-maiko , and think it for a moment, at least personally, Zuko and Mai relationship really does not work and they shouldn't get back together.

      I'm not a big fan of undoing major conclusions from the main series in supplemental material, but after all of the compelling arguments people have made on the topic, I can't really endorse that position anymore. There's never been a time where Maiko was really "stable."
      This is exactly why I can't get behind their breakup. I personally can still endorse Maiko (even though I completely see where people are coming from), because I just don't like the idea of changing relationship canon that was found at the end of the actual show.

      I agree with this; while I acknowledge Maiko has it's problems (what couple doesn't?), I'd rather they not make such a radical change to canon in what's supposed to be a continuation of the original series; it just feels wrong.


      The thing is, Mai didn't give signs of life in Korra, neither did Suki or Sokka(their relationship, i meant), Izumi's Mother and Suyin's Father are (for now, at least) unresolved mysteries, and the question is, why reveal Lin's Father's identity but not neither Suyin's Father's or Izumi's Mother's? What is that they didn't tell us and don't want to let us know about yet? Plus, In this Second Part, at least for me, Maiko doesn't seem to being restored but the opposite, things seem to drift them apart with Mai's decision of stay apart of Zuko for well, plus, Zuko and Mai are not fixing their problems either, in fact, Zuko is doing with Suki what he didn't with Mai and Mai is doing the very same thing why she left Zuko for, but to an even more terrible way, as the post says, she's not only lying to him, she's betraying him and putting him and his family under stress and danger.

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    • LFRO
      LFRO removed this reply because:
      It is a copy from another coment.
      00:28, January 11, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • LFRO wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:

      ElephantSpice wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      LFRO wrote: Everything is gonna' be alright in the end, just things won't be so easy between characters. I don't know you but, after reading this: http://madamebomb.tumblr.com/post/135561159651/we-need-to-talk-about-maiko , and think it for a moment, at least personally, Zuko and Mai relationship really does not work and they shouldn't get back together.

      I'm not a big fan of undoing major conclusions from the main series in supplemental material, but after all of the compelling arguments people have made on the topic, I can't really endorse that position anymore. There's never been a time where Maiko was really "stable."
      This is exactly why I can't get behind their breakup. I personally can still endorse Maiko (even though I completely see where people are coming from), because I just don't like the idea of changing relationship canon that was found at the end of the actual show.
      I agree with this; while I acknowledge Maiko has it's problems (what couple doesn't?), I'd rather they not make such a radical change to canon in what's supposed to be a continuation of the original series; it just feels wrong.

      The thing is, Mai didn't give signs of life in Korra, neither did Suki or Sokka(their relationship, i meant), Izumi's Mother and Suyin's Father are (for now, at least) unresolved mysteries, and the question is, why reveal Lin's Father's identity but not neither Suyin's Father's or Izumi's Mother's? What is that they didn't tell us and don't want to let us know about yet? Plus, In this Second Part, at least for me, Maiko doesn't seem to being restored but the opposite, things seem to drift them apart with Mai's decision of stay apart of Zuko for well, plus, Zuko and Mai are not fixing their problems either, in fact, Zuko is doing with Suki what he didn't with Mai and Mai is doing the very same thing why she left Zuko for, but to an even more terrible way, as the post says, she's not only lying to him, she's betraying him and putting him and his family under stress and danger.


      I agree wiith LFRO.

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    • Keizula could solve some problems...

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    • Dfcgcged wrote:
      Keizula could solve some problems...

      Keizula? As in Kei Lo x Azula? That wouldn't make any sense; they haven't even met.

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    • Dfcgcged wrote:
      Keizula could solve some problems...

      More like "KeiMai".

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    • You see, I was kinda expecting something more epic from the 1st Fire Lord you know? like uniting all warring states, building a massive wall, and a tomb with thousands of earthen soldiers to follow him on the afterlife... but in the end, that little story could be the headstart of an entire spin-off comic series...

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    • Emperor Qin, welcome back! :) I could use your insight on the armor designs used by different territories of the Fire Islands. Armors for Toz's men (upper left) look very Japanese, samurai-like.

      Fire Islands warlords fighting

      The armors for the First Fire Lord's men look familiar, but I can't put my finger on it.

      First Fire Lord
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    • Oh, of course ! 

      Continuing Luen Yang's usage of japanese cultural elements, we can see some interesting elements here. 

      The armors on your first picture, on the left side have an early stage japanese armor influence, from periods such as Yamato/Kofun. They had greater chinese influence to them (from Sui-Tang dynasties), specially on their helmets, usage of boots and weaponry. This happened before the samurai as a class became relevant in Japan. so that's basically pre-feudal Japan.

      The Fire Nation armor (in Bryke's work) instead, is a direct version of chinese Han/Song dynasty armors, with bonus firebender skull mask for cool/psych effect. 

      While on the right side, the warriors are influencied by 

      Fleeing civilians have Shang dynasty geometrical patterns to them, but have a Jomon influence to them, which actually reminded me of Kyoshi Island. 

      Now onto the second picture. 

      They're wearing Han dynasty armor, with the kind of pattern also used in Korea. Variations of this armor also made great influence on japanese armor.

      Interestingly, the troops behind him are wearing Mizura-type hairstyle, commonly worn in Japan before Nara-Heian era, where chinese style topknots and similar topknot-held headwear became prevalent. 


      This kinda creates a continuity loop between this and Bryke's canon, where the Fire Nation people came from a largely Sinitic type of culture, with heavy Zhou/Qin dynasty influences (see: The Begginings. damn, their leader looked like an marquis/duke straight outta the Warring States) in material culture and society. 

      Then again, we don't know if that sinitic-like people dominated the Fire Nation later, introducing firebending (no one knew firebending back then? and where the Sun Warriors, supposed spiritual ancestors of the Fire Nation fit in? man...), which would be something Luen Yang would do, to make a parallel on how China introduced culture to previously-tribal Japan, or if the people evolved locally and mingled with local tribes, which would be more of Bryke's work. 

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    • An anonymous contributor
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