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  • Since nearly every pair of Avatar siblings is dyfunctional at best, which sibling group would you say has it worst? Which has it best?

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    • Worst defenitely Zuko and Azula. Best I would say Sokka and Katara maybe?

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    • I reckon Desna and Eska wouldn't have too bad a relationship. They always seem so in sync with each other :P

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    • Best is the Watersibs, although the Water Twins actually aren't far behind.  I say this as someone who's not fond of the Water Twins.

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    • Most would agree that Zuko and Azula are the worst, though Iroh and Ozai might have been bad too. We don't know much about the latter. Desna and Eska never seemed to have a dysfunctional relationship with each other at least so I would say that they have the best relationship.

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    • I'd say Amon and Tarrlok had the worst relationship.  Jinora, Ikki and Meelo are a bit iffy, but I'd say they had the best relationship.

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    • If we're saying Desna and Eska have a good relationship, then we also have to put Wei and Wing Beifong on the same level.  If only because the Beifong twins are pretty much the same person in two different bodies.

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    • While Noatak and Tarrlok don't have the best sb relationship, i think they are far from the worst.

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    • There is a sibling bond that I forgot to consider for the worst bond: Tonraq and Unalaq. Unalaq got Tonraq banished so that he could become chief. Granted, there were times when Unalaq could have killed Tonraq but didn't. But I think it's clear that Unalaq did not care about Tonraq.

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    • Worst, I would have to say that Hanabi-chan is right, and the worst one is LoK Book 2's Unalaq and Tonraq, mainly because Unalaq clearly only ever saw his brother as an obstacle to his own goals, and was very proactive about removing that obstacle in the most underhanded way possible by engineering the circumstances that got him banished, and then trying to get him executed/imprisoned. Close second would be Ozai and Iroh, IMO

      Best? Would be Sokka and Katara, for reasons already extensively stated. Second best for me would be the Metal Twins(Wing and Wei Beifong), because they clearly have a very close relationship as twin brothers - IMO, even closer than that of Unalaq's kids, because in the latter case Eska is clearly the alpha, with Desna sort of being subordinate to his sister in a way ("Desna sleeps in the tub"), whereas I don't get that sense with the Metal Twins.

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    • Worst: Azula and Zuko

      Best: Suyin's children

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    • I can't really agree about Zuko and Azula relationship being the worst one. Yes it was extremely negative but they were both very young and "The Search" trilogy we see that Zuko tries to improve their relationship and Azula isn't so overconfident anymore. Definitely, the worst one is Unalaq and Tonraq. I mean what kind of brother is Unalaq?

      There are lot of good sibilings in Avatar franchise. My personal favorite is Mako - Bolin.  

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    • Worst: Tonraq and Unalaq

      Best: Mako and Bolin

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    • Worst: Tonraq and Unalaq, and maybe Zuko and Azula (can't wait to find out what happens in Smoke and Shadow^^)

      Best: I'd arguably say Sokka and Katara, I mean they do fight a lot, but overall, they love each other very much and would probably do anything to save the other one if they needed it.

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    • Hanabi-chan wrote: There is a sibling bond that I forgot to consider for the worst bond: Tonraq and Unalaq. Unalaq got Tonraq banished so that he could become chief. Granted, there were times when Unalaq could have killed Tonraq but didn't. But I think it's clear that Unalaq did not care about Tonraq.

      I really don't understand why he spared Tonraq, unless he wanted to use him for information/a hostage, or something. Korra I understand, the implication was that he planned to end the Avatar Cycle after he became Dark Avatar. The guy is just deplorable, I wonder if he ever cared about anything other than spirits, & even his idea of helping the spirits was pretty warped.

      If we don't count sociopaths like him, Ozai, & Azula, I think I'd have to say the worst was Lin & Suyin, & the best probably Sokka & Katara.

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    • Maybe I'm reading the OP wrong, but there are a number of sibling relationships that I would not classify as dysfunctional, Katara and Sokka, Mako and Bolin, Suyin's kids (while Bataar Jr. ran off with a woman that pissed the family off, they still loved him and seemingly were still welcoming and supportive of him in the end), and Ty Lee's sisters seemed pretty loving. Sure, siblings may bicker and argue and fight sometimes, but I don't find that in and of itself dysfunctional or even unhealthy. Physical and/or psychological abuse on the other hand, is another matter, which some of the Avatar siblings do demonstrate.

      I guess I sort of like the Iroh and Ozai as a contender for the slot, Ozai really screwed over Iroh and kicked him while he was down after the loss of his son. Iroh was pretty much against Ozai covertly for years even though Iroh was part of the Fire Nation war machine all the same. They had a very weird dynamic (and in some ways, Iroh's character just doesn't even make sense) and some serious points of stress on their relationship.

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    • I'd say Bataar Jr. betraying them was a dysfunction.

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    • I'm kind of saying Bataar Jr is the exception there, but even with him, it looked like the family was pretty strong and they were ready to reintegrate him as soon as the separate path he chose crumbled in front of him. Suyin immediately took him under her arm and clearly indicated he was loved and still part of the clan.

      They weren't perfect, but this seemed like a pretty healthy response. I also consider that this was good considering what we know of Toph's parenting.

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    • I didn't realize you were saying he was the short straw.

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    • Bataar Jr. wanted to stop test-firing the spirit energy cannon when he saw that Opal was in the blast zone though. So he at least gets the "I don't want my siblings to be killed" award.

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    • Bataar Jr. didn't really seem to have a problem with his siblings per se from where I'm standing. I get the sense his problem was principally with his parents, and it seems to be something that he felt specifically rather than anything to do with his parents or siblings. Any dysfunction in their relationships seem to have more to do with Bataar Jr. being a total jerk in Book 2 than anything else. And it didn't really seem to have all that much of a negative impact on the relationship with, for example, Opal(of course, she's the only one of Bataar's siblings to get any kind of real development), as mentioned above.

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    • Hanabi-chan wrote: Bataar Jr. wanted to stop test-firing the spirit energy cannon when he saw that Opal was in the blast zone though. So he at least gets the "I don't want my siblings to be killed" award.

      He can share Zuko's "Not As Big Of A Jerk As He Could Have Been Award."

      Yeah, Bataar Jr. was angry because he was always in his parents' shadows, & when he finally did something of his own, they didn't approve. His other siblings all had their own "things." The twins had sports, Skrillex had his art, & eventually Opal gained airbending.

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    • True. Of course, going along after an oppressive tyrant was, I think, not the sort of thing that Mom and Dad would like, so it was inevitable that it would drive a wedge between them, but the other difference is that IMO, the others were very active in terms of doing their own thing, whereas to me Bataar was passive - even in Book 3, he was still a flunkie. Anyway, he was a jerk with a serious chip on his shoulder and some serious parental issues (are there no shrinks in that city fer chrissakes?), but I don't really think his relationship with his siblings was necessarily dysfunctional except in his mind.

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    • Best: Zuko and Azula. Don't laugh, I mean it. I know how it is to have a mentally... exceptional member of the family, I know how it is to see sanity drifting away myself and the way Zuko cares about Azula during and after her breakdown is something almost holy in my eyes: It might be (mostly) one-sided, but I admire the way Zuko treats Azula.

      There is no worst. There is a "least favourite", based on my opinion (Bolin and Mako, that is), but there is really no relationship without flaws and I could not pick a worst.

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    • Can't help but feel bad for Zuko. In the end, all he really wanted was a normal family.

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    • Worst: Tonraq and Unalaq

      Should there even be an explantion for this? Unalaq not only got his brother banished and unsurped him of the Northern Water tribe, but tried to kill him and his daughter and attempted loads of other horrible deads to him. At least Ozai and Iroh's relationship mostly centered around disapproving of the other. Azula and Zuko almost got here but they seem to be getting on decent terms in the comics.

      Best: Eska and Desna

      Not only did these two fully understand each other, but they seem to fufill the other. Only with these siblings is it totally not awkward to have one going on a date and the other alongside them. We don't know a lot about Suyin's twins to really label them, so the award for best siblings goes to Eska and Desna.

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    • Man, until reading the comments, I haven't even realised how many dysfunctional and messed up families were there in the franchise.

      It got me thinking though, what do you think would be the best/worst parent-child relationship? We see a few of those too in both series, among the many siblings - a few of them are fantastic, others not so much; and they're kind of intertwined, aren't they?

      For example, while I don't think it's the worst that could be, Toph had pretty *rocky* (I'm sorry, I'll see myself out) relationships with her daughters, which must have had an effect on the relationship between those two as well, resulting in something not so positive.

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    • TheGreatMystery wrote: Man, until reading the comments, I haven't even realised how many dysfunctional and messed up families were there in the franchise.

      It got me thinking though, what do you think would be the best/worst parent-child relationship? We see a few of those too in both series, among the many siblings - a few of them are fantastic, others not so much; and they're kind of intertwined, aren't they?

      For example, while I don't think it's the worst that could be, Toph had pretty *rocky* (I'm sorry, I'll see myself out) relationships with her daughters, which must have had an effect on the relationship between those two as well, resulting in something not so positive.

      Best: It's a tie between Tonraq and Korra, and Tenzin and Jinora/Ikki/Meelo

      Worst: Ozai and Zuko

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    • Zuko did declare him "the worst father in the history of fathers."

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    • I'm stuck between Ozai&Unalaq. Both are horrible.

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    • Neo Bahamut
      Neo Bahamut removed this reply because:
      Whoops, wrong thread.
      16:53, April 9, 2016
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    • The sudden topic change has me confused: Are you talking about them as siblings or as fathers?

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    • I was referring to them as fathers.

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    • Okay, thanks. In that case, from the way Desna talked about him, it felt like Unalaq used to be a good father before he went all coocoo for dark spirits.

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    • The worst? Tornaq and Unalaq or Zuko and Azula, maybe both. The best are Eska and Desna; those two are basically bound at the hip

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    • I'm not sure if I can count Desna and Eska because Desna isn't really a person or doesn't feel like one. Not sure if I would even count Bataar Jr and his siblings as there really wasn't too much development there and was far more focused on the parent aspect instead.

      The Zuko and Aluza relationship feels the best and the worst. Best written overall with good drama compared to all of the others. Worst by dysfunction but is that a bad thing?

      LoK typically had poorer sibling relationships. Book 1 was pretty decent with Bolin and Mako and the Tarrlok and Noatok relationships. Book 2 started a downward trend for siblings. Tornaq and Unalaq's relationship was pretty shallow (like really shallow), Desna and Eska were essentially one person, and the Bolin and Mako relationship became a Mako is always right thing. 

      However, if Lok did a sibling relationship right, I'd look at Lin and Suyin. Tops any of the other LoK ones and surprised I haven't seen any love for it yet.

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    • Kubernes wrote: However, if Lok did a sibling relationship right, I'd look at Lin and Suyin. Tops any of the other LoK ones and surprised I haven't seen any love for it yet.

      Well, if I look at it as if it was a relationship in real life, then I'd consider it a "bad" one. It's pretty dysfunctional and not healthy for anyone, in my opinion.

      But if I look at it as it is, a relationship that was written for storytelling and dramatic purposes, then I agree with you completely. It wasn't idealistic and shallow, but instead complex, engaging, layered and realistic, it had its roots and reasons for being the way it is. I loved it and I think it was very well written and carried out. And after all, it wasn't only problematic, when they had to, they were able to come to an agreement in order to work together. It really should get more recognition and love, I agree.

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    • I'd say it depends on when exactly you make the comparison. By the end of Book 3, they seem to have a pretty solid relationship.

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    • True, but I think they have still a lot/some things to improve in regards to their relationship.

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    • Sort of? I can't really think of much that would improve that sister relationship; the writers pretty much went through all of the problematic elements between the two and their relationship is solid. The only thing I can think of is something to do with the fathers and that's complicated by the fact that they have different ones. I could only see it partially working if we learn Suyin's father first and that creates some situation where Lin wants to find her father or learn more about him.

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    • - Worst: Iroh and Ozai. More than enough unresolved (and never going to be) conflict here. I bet these two couldn't be in the same room together for more than 5 minutes without one killing the other.

      - Best: Jinora, Ikki, Meelo. Just cause they're awesome. Go airbenders.

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    • I don't know about Iroh and Ozai. Ozai never tried to kill Iroh, not even after he betrayed the Fire Nation and helped the avatar's friends escape. Azula, on the other hand, tried to kill Zuko multiple times.

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    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      I don't know about Iroh and Ozai. Ozai never tried to kill Iroh, not even after he betrayed the Fire Nation and helped the avatar's friends escape. Azula, on the other hand, tried to kill Zuko multiple times.

      Well, at least Azula and Zuko's relationship has the potential to be peaceful. Iroh and Ozai's, on the other hand, does not.

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    • I think we can't really be sure about that.. now that Ozai doesn't have his bending, he's basically powerless against Iroh in a fight, so he doesn't really pose a threat to him - which he must be aware of as well. Also, when we first saw Zuko, did we think he would end up helping the Avatar in the end? Ozai could come around like his son. So, even though it's unlikely, I think the potential could still be there.

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    • TheGreatMystery wrote:
      I think we can't really be sure about that.. now that Ozai doesn't have his bending, he's basically powerless against Iroh in a fight, so he doesn't really pose a threat to him - which he must be aware of as well. Also, when we first saw Zuko, did we think he would end up helping the Avatar in the end? Ozai could come around like his son. So, even though it's unlikely, I think the potential could still be there.

      Nah, too much has already been done, hands are already dirty. Imo, Iroh suspects Ozai of being more treacherous than even we, the audience, know. Also, remember that one non-bender whose legacy led to a semi-militarized faction of non-benders. The point of ATLOK Book One is to refute what you're saying.

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    • Okay, I accept that. Also, I have to admit, I forgot about the New Ozai Society and all that too when I was writing my comment... well, maybe their relationship is beyond saving (but I believe that's only on Ozai, not Iroh).

      But maybe the same is true for Zuko and Azula. Even though he was trying to be more open towards her and even went on a mission with her in the comics, that ended up badly nonetheless, like nothing ever changed. So I'm not sure their relationship has any more of a chance of being peaceful than that of Ozai and Iroh.

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    • TheGreatMystery wrote:
      Okay, I accept that. Also, I have to admit, I forgot about the New Ozai Society and all that too when I was writing my comment... well, maybe their relationship is beyond saving (but I believe that's only on Ozai, not Iroh).

      But maybe the same is true for Zuko and Azula. Even though he was trying to be more open towards her and even went on a mission with her in the comics, that ended up badly nonetheless, like nothing ever changed. So I'm not sure their relationship has any more of a chance of being peaceful than that of Ozai and Iroh.

      It's hard to tell with those two. S&S3 they seemed to be get along better than they did in the show. Progress, mate. Progress. You can't go from attempting to kill the sibling in one part to hugging them in the other. 

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    • Well, I bet we'll see more of it later in the upcoming comics. Until then, all we can do is guess and theorize, I'm afraid.

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    • TheGreatMystery wrote:
      I think we can't really be sure about that.. now that Ozai doesn't have his bending, he's basically powerless against Iroh in a fight, so he doesn't really pose a threat to him - which he must be aware of as well. Also, when we first saw Zuko, did we think he would end up helping the Avatar in the end? Ozai could come around like his son. So, even though it's unlikely, I think the potential could still be there.

      How much interaction between the two do we really have? Even then the relationship was not as bad as some of the other, more prominently featured ones. Might be better to say that it was as openly hostle.

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    • Ozai didn't seem to care about Iroh living with him, so as long as Iroh doesn't try to get the throne their ralationship would be more of a "ignore each other" one.

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    • The best relationship is Ozai and his twin brother Barney the Dinosaur

      The worst relationship is Ozai and his twin brother Barney The Dinosaur

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    • Bloodline wise;

      Worst: Ozai and Iroh (I think they're brothers, right?)

      Best: Katara and Sokka


      Emotional relationship wise;

      Worst: Zuko and Azula

      Best: Katara and Azula

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    • I feel like Zuko's and Azula's relationship sucks a lot, even though they "like" each other when Zuko comes back to the Fire Nation. I say that because Azula only does things for her benefit, like telling Ozai that Zuko killed Aang. Ozai's and Iroh's sucks too, because Iroh mentions how he can't kill his own brother, not because they are brothers, but because of the image it will put out. 

      However, I think the worst (and best, I'll explain) sibling relationship is between Tenzin, Kaya and Bumi. To a lesser extent, the same problems are shown in Tenzin's children (Jinora is Tenzin, Meelo is Bumi, and Ikki is Kaya). Bumi and Kaya are jealous that Tenzin got special love from Aang because he was an airbender, and they show that frustration. Over time, while they do love each other on the outside and accept each other, you can't help feeling a bit sad for the both of them. However, it is kind of remedied when Bumi randomly gets airbending, so I'm sure that, as brothers, Tenzin would help Bumi with all the stuff Aang taught him. So that relationship was the worst in Season 2, but got better over time. 

      The best would have to be Sokka and Katar, for most of the same reasons. They fight, they disagree, but they have each other's backs. There aren't many moments where Sokka and Katara are not shown together in the first series, and that just strengthens their bond. Plus, having to live with your sibling for 9 consecutive months, no matter how annoying they might be, has to do something beneficial with your relationship. 

      Maybe that's what I need...

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    • I have to bring up Bolin and Mako as a potential problem relationship. This has to deal with the first real image of the Korra comics and the image of both brothers in uniform. Feels like it simply reinforces the idea that Bolin can only 'follow' his brother rather than become something on his own. Bolin did have a failure with Kuvira but he did feel like he was helping people and he was doing so without being attached to Mako.

      Granted, this is only a single image and the final product might be different.

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      I have to bring up Bolin and Mako as a potential problem relationship. This has to deal with the first real image of the Korra comics and the image of both brothers in uniform. Feels like it simply reinforces the idea that Bolin can only 'follow' his brother rather than become something on his own. Bolin did have a failure with Kuvira but he did feel like he was helping people and he was doing so without being attached to Mako.Granted, this is only a single image and the final product might be different.

      As far as I know, there won't be (much) issues between the two as Michael said he'd written tons of scenes about them which are gonna be humourus.

      In the last season he'd said that helping people is what he loves and since Mako is injured it is not that long of a shot to assume Bolin joins the force as well, maybe just to help Mako. But that's to be seen yet.

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    • Atla best:Katara and Sokka

      Atla worst:Iroh and Ozai

      Lok best:Mako and Bolin

      Lok worst:Tonraq and Unalaq

      Katara and Sokka almost never fight.

      Zuko and Azula sometimes got along,so I chose Ozai and Iroh.

      Desna and Eska probably are too weird to be here.Their relationship confuses me.

      Amon occasionally would help Tarrlok.Unalaq was tryin' to kill Tonraq since his egg was fertilized.

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    • Zuko and Azula, hands down! I mean, the girl tried to kill her brother! How dysfunctional can your sibling relationship get than that?!

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      Zuko and Azula, hands down! I mean, the girl tried to kill her brother! How dysfunctional can your sibling relationship get than that?!

      Why don't you ask Jaime and Cersei?

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    • Who are they?

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    • Twins from Game of Thrones. They really love each other. R e a l l y...

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    • Ah, like GoT incest. Gotcha. 

      But why is their sibling relationship worse than Zuko's and Azula's? I've never watched GoT, I just heard the stereotypes.

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    • Aggression25
      Aggression25 removed this reply because:
      Needs to be rewritten.
      01:14, October 26, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • McJediProbie wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote:
      Zuko and Azula, hands down! I mean, the girl tried to kill her brother! How dysfunctional can your sibling relationship get than that?!

      Why don't you ask Jaime and Cersei?

      I prefer Desna and Eska. They're creepy enough to speak to.

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    • Korra2000 wrote:
      Kubernes wrote:
      I have to bring up Bolin and Mako as a potential problem relationship. This has to deal with the first real image of the Korra comics and the image of both brothers in uniform. Feels like it simply reinforces the idea that Bolin can only 'follow' his brother rather than become something on his own. Bolin did have a failure with Kuvira but he did feel like he was helping people and he was doing so without being attached to Mako.Granted, this is only a single image and the final product might be different.
      As far as I know, there won't be (much) issues between the two as Michael said he'd written tons of scenes about them which are gonna be humourus.

      In the last season he'd said that helping people is what he loves and since Mako is injured it is not that long of a shot to assume Bolin joins the force as well, maybe just to help Mako. But that's to be seen yet.

      My problem isn't whether or not the scenes are 'funny' but the depth in them. We had four books to really develop their relationship and nothing really changed. Meanwhile, we had leagues of better development from another sibling relationship: Lin and Suyin.

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    • Most likely, the reason that there wasn't much development between Mako and Bolin was because there wasn't much else to do with them, and this ties into how LoK was only supposed to be one season. You were given all the tough times, bending over backwards and problems in their backstory, so there wasn't much that they could develop on. Suyin and Lin were at odds against each other, and then had to change that in the face of two huge threats. There was so much to develop there.

      It's kind of like adding toppings to a cake that has every single topping in the world, as opposed to adding toppings to a cake that has no toppings at all. In the first scenario, there isn't much that you can do except keep it the way that it is. But you have so much more material in the second scenario, that you can do whatever you want with it.

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    • Agreed. To me Mako & Bolin is like the Sokka & Katara of LOK. They might have quibbles but the foundation of their relationship is already strong and robust and nothing can truly shake the trust between them.

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    • Someone actually understood one of my analogies. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

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    • Worst: Unulaq and Tonrak

      Best: Desna and Eska

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    • How is Desna and Eska's relationship better than Sokka/Katara or Bolin/Mako?

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    • Because neither of them ever said "You don't love our mom as much as I do because you don't agree with me"

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    • I honestly found Sokka and Katara to the best siblings by far. They're the typical pair that fight much of the time.

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    • And that makes them better than siblings who are in sync?

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Because neither of them ever said "You don't love our mom as much as I do because you don't agree with me"

      Obviously, you don't have a sibling. The conflicts between us is what makes us closer. 

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      And that makes them better than siblings who are in sync?

      Certainly, as it can add depth and conflict to a story. Zuko and Azula are good examples as well.

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    • .. Oh, I thought we were talking about the best siblings, not the best story to feature siblings.

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    • I'd still put Sokka and Katara above the twins. The whole "in sync" thing doesn't make the sibling good in a character or story stand point, just a lazy writing one. The earth twins way back in ATLA were cute but you can't really have an interesting exchange throughout an entire book/season or even an entire episode. What's worse is the problem of one of those twins not really doing much or being more than an one dimension character.

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    • Again, you're talking about story potential, not the sibling's relationship.

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    • Well, technically, the quality of a sibling-relationship lies in tiny interesting details, so stories about siblings would actually help the discussion.

      Lacking said stories, except the ones we don't lack, this point is pointless, though, which means it isn't even a point, I suppose.

      Basically, I just wrote nothing.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Again, you're talking about story potential, not the sibling's relationship.

      Except that story potential, in this instance the actual story we see in the series, does mean something to the relationship. The same with Zuko and Azula. It's more of an instance of potential and what the writers do with it. When you compare ATLA to LoK, there's a lot potential in LoK but only ATLA does something with it.

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    • Worst: Three way tie between Iroh and Ozai, Zuko and Azula, and Tonraq and Unalaq

      Best: Sokka and Katara, Metal Clan kids (book 3 at least), Airbending kids, Mako and Bolin

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    • Worst- Holydragon's stuff. (Damn, we're in sync!)

      Best- Katara and Sokka, Mako and Bolin, WaterTwins

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    • An anonymous contributor
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