FANDOM


  • Anyone else bothered that they did this in the legend of korra? I actually think it is one of the stupidest things about it.

    the entirety of ATLA established that bending must be done through martial arts body movements (mostly the arms and legs). they even hired sifu kisu to show them the movements.

    in a majority of the fights they are frequently trying to trap or pin each others arms and legs. even remember in the great divide "without my arms, I got no bending". even when they are training it is all about getting the movements right.

    bending is basically supposed to be martial arts with these fantasy powers.

    when did they not use limbs in ATLA?

    Bumi used his head, I think is ok. 1. YOU CAN USE YOUR HEAD in actual martial arts. headbutting is an actual movie AND he doesn't really do anything great with it. he doesn't really even fight with it, its just some basic stuff. he still needs to use his arms and legs to actually fight. 2. he is one of the best. toph uses her head and does even less than bumi. its ok for the same reasons above. so basically the head can be used very limitedly (just like real life), even by the best.

    so air and fire benders can also use their mouth. yeah this really has no parallels in real life. well, I guess its kinda like biting. the bending really only comes out of their mouth. they cant do anything fancy with it. just shoot a stream out of their mouth. and the mouth is still something that can be covered (thus disabled, just like limbs).

    oh yeah, I almost forget combustion man. he bends out of a hole in his head. and like the mouth, he cant really do anything fancy (powerful yes). it also comes with a HUGE weakness. a tiny hit disables him and a decent hit can kill him. his freakish advantage also comes with a huge weakness.


    so this is why I see Ming Hua to be so stupid. she bends with nothing. she doesn't even use her legs or anything (which is rare in waterbending anyway but, would be better than nothing).

    its also why I see amon and yakone to be stupid (on top of the anytime bloodbending thing).

    what are these people's weaknesses?

    if you don't need arms just chop em off! you'll be less of a target.

    seriously, there are so many instances in ATLA showing the importance of limbs that it is really sheer stupidity of the writers to do this.

    FYI: I probably wont come back to this thread so don't expect a response. I got bored of this discussion.

      Loading editor
    • Based on observation and staff commentary?  Ming-Hua waterbent primarily with her spine and shoulderblades, and to a lesser degree with her hips and legs.  And as she was born without arms, it's likely that she started practicing it as soon as she found out she even was a waterbender.

        Loading editor
    • Katara broke ice just yelling at Soka, they don't need any fancy movements to bend and in my opnion they all have a low level psychic bending. The martial arts moves are just for a better use of bending in a fight.

        Loading editor
    • Saying that Bumi "didn't do anything fancy" with his head is complete bollocks, he was able to break himself out of a steel coffin, several feet in the air. Literally, Bumi could defeat just about any threat with only his chin.

      He's really up there with "psychic bloodbending" in terms of the most ridiculously OP bending.

        Loading editor
    • Deist Zealot wrote: Based on observation and staff commentary?  Ming-Hua waterbent primarily with her spine and shoulderblades, and to a lesser degree with her hips and legs.  And as she was born without arms, it's likely that she started practicing it as soon as she found out she even was a waterbender.

      well my entire point is that limbs are needed to do the majority of bending movies. with many examples from the show. soooooo yeah.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Katara broke ice just yelling at Soka, they don't need any fancy movements to bend and in my opnion they all have a low level psychic bending. The martial arts moves are just for a better use of bending in a fight.

      she was flailing her arms around when yelling at him. flailing. arms.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Saying that Bumi "didn't do anything fancy" with his head is complete bollocks, he was able to break himself out of a steel coffin, several feet in the air. Literally, Bumi could defeat just about any threat with only his chin.

      He's really up there with "psychic bloodbending" in terms of the most ridiculously OP bending.

      he just pulled some earth chunks towards him and pried his thing open. not very elaborate. he never used his face in his battle with aang. and he seems like someone who would if he could effectively. just to show off. he also never used against any of the fire nation.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote: Saying that Bumi "didn't do anything fancy" with his head is complete bollocks, he was able to break himself out of a steel coffin, several feet in the air. Literally, Bumi could defeat just about any threat with only his chin.

      He's really up there with "psychic bloodbending" in terms of the most ridiculously OP bending.

      he just pulled some earth chunks towards him and pried his thing open. not very elaborate. he never used his face in his battle with aang. and he seems like someone who would if he could effectively. just to show off. he also never used against any of the fire nation.

      This isn't hard to understand, metal is tougher than people, if you can break metal, you can break people.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote: Saying that Bumi "didn't do anything fancy" with his head is complete bollocks, he was able to break himself out of a steel coffin, several feet in the air. Literally, Bumi could defeat just about any threat with only his chin.

      He's really up there with "psychic bloodbending" in terms of the most ridiculously OP bending.

      he just pulled some earth chunks towards him and pried his thing open. not very elaborate. he never used his face in his battle with aang. and he seems like someone who would if he could effectively. just to show off. he also never used against any of the fire nation.

      This isn't hard to understand, metal is tougher than people, if you can break metal, you can break people.

      I loled. +1 for you sir

        Loading editor
    • Still don't take my point of them having psychic bending.

      Jeong Jeong bended fire without movig before.

        Loading editor
    • I fear you may be right, Avatar Nate. When I first watched Ming-Hua, I thought, "the producers will HAVE to come up with a reason". But they never did, just called it "psychic Bending". And even Yakone couldn't do much, maybe Bend a couple of dozen people's left pectoral muscles to agony while concentrating and contorting muscles in his face. But Ming-Hua has nothing at all; her face doesn't even contort (which would, I'll admit, be tricky to animate). Just... either consider is a fluke, or wonder if she still has regressed humeruses with which to move the water a bit.

        Loading editor
    • Boomerang: Thanks.

      SaitamaBro: I more-or-less agree with you, there has always been a measure of ambiguity about how much movement is necessary to Bend. All that "psychic bloodbending" did was draw attention to it by giving it a rather silly name & making it a plot point. Still, some characters have been more absurd with it than others. Bumi, Yakone, & Amon come to mind. I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting.

      Ming-Hua's not really much of a problem, she still has enough muscles left to Bend.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Deist Zealot wrote: Based on observation and staff commentary?  Ming-Hua waterbent primarily with her spine and shoulderblades, and to a lesser degree with her hips and legs.  And as she was born without arms, it's likely that she started practicing it as soon as she found out she even was a waterbender.

      well my entire point is that limbs are needed to do the majority of bending movies. with many examples from the show. soooooo yeah.

      Your examples from the show are irrelevant, as you're not offering any proof that someone with prostheses (which Ming-Hua's water arms effectively were) and sufficient skill (which she indubitably had) would not be able to bend effectively.

      And you're also forgetting something else that was a thing in A:TLA—namely, flipping the bird to ableism.

        Loading editor
    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Deist Zealot wrote: Based on observation and staff commentary?  Ming-Hua waterbent primarily with her spine and shoulderblades, and to a lesser degree with her hips and legs.  And as she was born without arms, it's likely that she started practicing it as soon as she found out she even was a waterbender.

      well my entire point is that limbs are needed to do the majority of bending movies. with many examples from the show. soooooo yeah.
      Your examples from the show are irrelevant, as you're not offering any proof that someone with prostheses (which Ming-Hua's water arms effectively were) and sufficient skill (which she indubitably had) would not be able to bend effectively.

      And you're also forgetting something else that was a thing in A:TLA—namely, flipping the bird to ableism.

      Are you trying to say that the reason she can bend is that she's using what she is bending to bend?

        Loading editor
    • This isn't hard to understand, metal is tougher than people, if you can break metal, you can break people.

      Its not the power but, the skill and practicality. A head butt can do a lot of damage but, it is rarely practical in a fight. Bumi never uses his head when fighting (literally). Also, he likely broke the weakest parts of the metal. He opened the door (which may have been held shut with a hinge or nails). He didn't just rip the whole thing open.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Still don't take my point of them having psychic bending.

      Jeong Jeong bended fire without movig before.

      My point is that psychic bending is stupid and was added very late and seems to ruin the whole idea of bending. Bending is done with martial arts movements.

      Jeong Jeong (and other firebenders) made fire get bigger or smaller with breathing. They didn't actually shoot it at anything.

        Loading editor
    • Your examples from the show are irrelevant, as you're not offering any proof that someone with prostheses (which Ming-Hua's water arms effectively were) and sufficient skill (which she indubitably had) would not be able to bend effectively.

      And you're also forgetting something else that was a thing in A:TLA—namely, flipping the bird to ableism.

      how are they irrelevant? ming hua's water arms were WATER arms. how did she bend the water to make her water arms? you can't bend water WITH water! No one in avatar is ever shown to use actual prosthetics to bend. I'd be more ok with that than with nothing.

        Loading editor
    • Ming-Hua's not really much of a problem, she still has enough muscles left to Bend.

      that's like saying someone without arms still has enough muscles to punch someone. they could hit them with their body.....but how often would they win?

      bending is supposed to be like a fantastical extension of martial arts. not a psychic thing or godlike thing.

        Loading editor
    • that's like saying someone without arms still has enough muscles to punch someone.

      You do, if you can move a prosthetic, which is exactly what she is doing.

      Its not the power but, the skill and practicality.

      The power to throw boulders at high velocities by moving your chin is impractical in a fight? Whatever, I'm going back to ignoring you now.

        Loading editor
    • Boomeraang squad wrote:
      Deist Zealot wrote:
      TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Deist Zealot wrote: Based on observation and staff commentary?  Ming-Hua waterbent primarily with her spine and shoulderblades, and to a lesser degree with her hips and legs.  And as she was born without arms, it's likely that she started practicing it as soon as she found out she even was a waterbender.

      well my entire point is that limbs are needed to do the majority of bending movies. with many examples from the show. soooooo yeah.
      Your examples from the show are irrelevant, as you're not offering any proof that someone with prostheses (which Ming-Hua's water arms effectively were) and sufficient skill (which she indubitably had) would not be able to bend effectively.

      And you're also forgetting something else that was a thing in A:TLA—namely, flipping the bird to ableism.

      Are you trying to say that the reason she can bend is that she's using what she is bending to bend?

      ...no.  As I said: she primarily used her spine and shoulderblades. 

      Additionally, the same person who's griping about it here is splitting hairs in order to give throwing boulders with one's head a free pass.

        Loading editor
    • Actually, having been in a few of this guy's threads before, this is where he's going to claim that we can't handle the show being criticized.

      And maybe down the road say that he didn't read most of the thread, because it's his right to not read if he doesn't want to, & that he knows he's right.

        Loading editor
    • I recall Aang airbending himself to a stance without any movements in "The Swamp". Along with the whole Bumi bending with his face.

      And what about Zuko with his "knives" of fire?

        Loading editor
    • What about sneezing or blowing? How is that kung fu moves?

      If you can control fire with your mind it doesn't make sense but if you can contorl it by breathing it's alright?

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      You do, if you can move a prosthetic, which is exactly what she is doing.

      Its not the power but, the skill and practicality.

      The power to throw boulders at high velocities by moving your chin is impractical in a fight? Whatever, I'm going back to ignoring you now.

      no she doesn't. she absolutely does not have prosthetics. she is bending the water into arms......what is she using to do that?

      ....he never throws boulders at high velocity with his chin. he makes a mound once. and pulls some earth towards him slowly another time. and NO something is rarely practical if it is not easy to control. like I said, a headbutt can do a lot of damage. goodluck hitting someone with it consistently.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Actually, having been in a few of this guy's threads before, this is where he's going to claim that we can't handle the show being criticized.

      And maybe down the road say that he didn't read most of the thread, because it's his right to not read if he doesn't want to, & that he knows he's right.

      Ad hominem attacks. why not stay on topic? even IF I was incorrect about something in the past, doesn't mean I am now.

      and no, i'm not going to read every response if there are too many. especially if they aren't responding directly to me. this isn't my life. this thread has been fine so far. a decent number of replies.

        Loading editor
    • Fja3987
      Fja3987 removed this reply because:
      same thing twice
      04:18, January 8, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • ...no.  As I said: she primarily used her spine and shoulderblades. 

      Additionally, the same person who's griping about it here is splitting hairs in order to give throwing boulders with one's head a free pass.

      he never throws a boulder with his head. and even if he could it wouldn't be anything fancy with any great amount of control.

      and the head is used more often in fighting than the spine and shoulders (if those are ever used).

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: What about sneezing or blowing? How is that kung fu moves?

      If you can control fire with your mind it doesn't make sense but if you can contorl it by breathing it's alright?

      I addressed the mouth stuff in the original post.

      and the breathing is hardly practical in a fight. all it does is make it bigger or smaller.

        Loading editor
    • The topic is pointless, it's just one man's ranting, which everyone but that man thinks is thoroughly debunked.

      A prosthetic is an artificial limb, so YES, the war arms ARE prosthetics. A prosthetic limb can be manipulated using OTHER MUSCLES THAT THE PERSON STILL HAS.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      ...no.  As I said: she primarily used her spine and shoulderblades. 

      Additionally, the same person who's griping about it here is splitting hairs in order to give throwing boulders with one's head a free pass.

      he never throws a boulder with his head. and even if he could it wouldn't be anything fancy with any great amount of control.

      and the head is used more often in fighting than the spine and shoulders (if those are ever used).

      Bumi throws bolders with his head. At least twice actually. The first was in return to omashu the 2nd was in the finale of atla in Bumi's recap of what he did on the day of black sun.

        Loading editor
    • Boomeraang squad wrote:

      TheAvatarNate wrote:

      ...no.  As I said: she primarily used her spine and shoulderblades. 

      Additionally, the same person who's griping about it here is splitting hairs in order to give throwing boulders with one's head a free pass.

      he never throws a boulder with his head. and even if he could it wouldn't be anything fancy with any great amount of control.

      and the head is used more often in fighting than the spine and shoulders (if those are ever used).

      Bumi throws bolders with his head. At least twice actually. The first was in return to omashu the 2nd was in the finale of atla in Bumi's recap of what he did on the day of black sun.

      "It was probably just dirt," said Neo Bahamut sarcastically.

        Loading editor
    • Lol

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: The topic is pointless, it's just one man's ranting, which everyone but that man thinks is thoroughly debunked.

      A prosthetic is an artificial limb, so YES, the war arms ARE prosthetics. A prosthetic limb can be manipulated using OTHER MUSCLES THAT THE PERSON STILL HAS.

      lol. it is no more pointless than any other topic on this board. you are just attacking me now and not my arguments.

      there is still no excuse for how she bends the water to make her arms. and you are literally saying she is bending water WITH water.

      if this can be done, there is no reason for everyone not to amputate their arms and legs.

      this is so painstakingly obvious I cant believe I have to explain it. every single scene where they are learning how to bend it is all about getting the movements right. and getting the stances right. remember katara learning the water whip? "you have to shift your weight through your stances". katara later teaching aang "keep your arms closer together".

      so when they chain hama up....why couldn't she just bend with her shoulder blades...huh? clearly it is very easy!

      aang even talks about defeating the firelord by covering all his arms and legs in glue.

        Loading editor
    • also you said everyone (theres like 5 people on here haha) disagrees?

      well if you read ALL THE COMMENTS AND REPLIES! AND REMEMBER THEM FOR WEEKS AFTER YOU READ THEM!

      you would know that Avatar Vyakara said above.

      "I fear you may be right, Avatar Nate. When I first watched Ming-Hua, I thought, "the producers will HAVE to come up with a reason". But they never did, just called it "psychic Bending". And even Yakone couldn't do much, maybe Bend a couple of dozen people's left pectoral muscles to agony while concentrating and contorting muscles in his face. But Ming-Hua has nothing at all; her face doesn't even contort (which would, I'll admit, be tricky to animate). Just... either consider is a fluke, or wonder if she still has regressed humeruses with which to move the water a bit."

      and boomerang squad also seemed to think that waterbending WITH water was stupid.

      also, the amount of people that agree does not make something true or untrue. that is simple logic.

        Loading editor
    • Boomeraang squad wrote:

      Bumi throws bolders with his head. At least twice actually. The first was in return to omashu the 2nd was in the finale of atla in Bumi's recap of what he did on the day of black sun.

      lol. but HE DOESNT. and i'm not arguing about whether it is dirt or rock. he throws no earth with his head. I just rewatched both scenes from both episodes. in "return to omashu" he makes 2 mounds of earth. and moves another mound. in "the old masters" he pulls some small pieces of earth towards him (relatively slowly I might add) and pries his coffin open. that's it, he never uses his head moves in a fight. probably because he cant do much and that they are impractical. they are difficult to control. and even if he did use the occasional head move, he still couldn't rely on it. he would be nearly useless without limbs, like all benders should be.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Boomeraang squad wrote:

      Bumi throws bolders with his head. At least twice actually. The first was in return to omashu the 2nd was in the finale of atla in Bumi's recap of what he did on the day of black sun.

      lol. but HE DOESNT. and i'm not arguing about whether it is dirt or rock. he throws no earth with his head. I just rewatched both scenes from both episodes. in "return to omashu" he makes 2 mounds of earth. and moves another mound. in "the old masters" he pulls some small pieces of earth towards him (relatively slowly I might add) and pries his coffin open. that's it, he never uses his head moves in a fight. probably because he cant do much and that they are impractical. they are difficult to control. and even if he did use the occasional head move, he still couldn't rely on it. he would be nearly useless without limbs, like all benders should be.

      How does  "he pulls some small pieces of earth towards him"   Not qualify as throwing rocks. That is very literaly what your sentence means. He used his head to bend rocks through the air towards him.

        Loading editor
    • so when they chain hama up....why couldn't she just bend with her shoulder blades...huh? clearly it is very easy!

      As easy as lavabending, combustionbending and unassisted flight. Why didn't no one(except for Sparky Sparky Boom Man, but he could only shot in a straight line) did those things if the RL members can do with ease?

        Loading editor
    • Hama didn't bloodbend because she'd done her task: passing on the art to Katara. Bloodbenders probably have some ability to bend with minimal movements if they want (say, only to hurt instead of to control; lots of heart attacks...), but Hama didn't want to. The Red Lotus are all absurdly overpowered, but they make a point or two. Ming-Hua's ability isn't just in the arms; it's also in the spine and the legs. And I'll bet she still has some muscles in her shoulders. So even with the ridiculous muscle-less Bending, it may still be technically possible, if you stretch it and give her some muscles.

      Now, curving combustion arcs is sheer impossibility.

        Loading editor
    • I think the comments here could give birth to the theory that all benders have raw bending ability that don't need movement. The power is there, but the control is in the movement. Otherwise what if an earth bended did a high five and the earth rise up when he lifted his arm? The -will- to bend the persons respective element may also play a heavy role in the matter. So I don't think its all just movement, I think it's movement, mind set, and the idea that there's more to bending then meets the eye. I mean bending was originally learned from vessels of spirits (ie waterbeds and the moon) so there's a heavy spiritual aspect to it as well.

        Loading editor
    • If I make a thread, I don't intend for it to be my soapbox, that's what blogs are for.

      Funny, I was under the impression that I said that Ming-Hua uses her existing muscles to Bend, did anyone else see that?

        Loading editor
    • Boomeraang squad wrote: How does  "he pulls some small pieces of earth towards him"   Not qualify as throwing rocks. That is very literaly what your sentence means. He used his head to bend rocks through the air towards him.

      He is technically pulling them. not throwing them. but the POINT is that it is not really an effective fighting move.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: As easy as lavabending, combustionbending and unassisted flight. Why didn't no one(except for Sparky Sparky Boom Man, but he could only shot in a straight line) did those things if the RL members can do with ease?

      well lavabending is also stupid (but, that is a different discussion). combustion bending is a freak ability you are born with soooo....that is easy any way. not sure how I feel about unassisted flight. I feel like not enough is known about it. but, it can definitely be made to work well with the show.

        Loading editor
    • Kile574 wrote: I think the comments here could give birth to the theory that all benders have raw bending ability that don't need movement. The power is there, but the control is in the movement. Otherwise what if an earth bended did a high five and the earth rise up when he lifted his arm? The -will- to bend the persons respective element may also play a heavy role in the matter. So I don't think its all just movement, I think it's movement, mind set, and the idea that there's more to bending then meets the eye. I mean bending was originally learned from vessels of spirits (ie waterbeds and the moon) so there's a heavy spiritual aspect to it as well.

      Yes, I agree with that. there is definitely a "will" that must be used when bending. otherwise any movement would cause bending. but, as I've said. the first series establishes that movement is also necessary and that the arms and legs are required to do the majority of moves.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: If I make a thread, I don't intend for it to be my soapbox, that's what blogs are for.

      Funny, I was under the impression that I said that Ming-Hua uses her existing muscles to Bend, did anyone else see that?

      yeah and my point was that that is stupid because the entire first series establishes that you need arm and leg movements to do any significant bending. shoulders and spine movement should cause some mild splashes and ripples at best.

        Loading editor
    • Remember the exact quotes Hama said about being in prison?

      "They bound our arms and legs so we couldn't bend" COULDNT BEND.

      here is the video if you want to watch it again for yourself.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKlTZkC9-ng

      it is around the 5:15 mark.

      when katara was learning the water whip she kept getting it wrong because she kept doing to movements wrong.

      the entire "dragon dance" was different movements and stances for fire bending.

      The more I think about it the more I think of examples.

        Loading editor
    • It's still no different than Bumi bending with his face (Or when Aang did it to raise himself to his feet). Ming-Hua was born without arms. If Bumi could learn to bend with his face, then it's not out of the norm for her to learn to bend without the use of arms - especially since she has been without them her whole life.

        Loading editor
    • Merry Midge wrote: It's still no different than Bumi bending with his face (Or when Aang did it to raise himself to his feet). Ming-Hua was born without arms. If Bumi could learn to bend with his face, then it's not out of the norm for her to learn to bend without the use of arms - especially since she has been without them her whole life.

      Or Toph being able to see with her feet. People learn unusual bending skills, &/or how to use unorthodox bodyparts in bending, quite frequently.

      Again, going with the prosthetic analogy that the OP clearly does not understand, you can't just have your arm hacked off, put a fake one on, & suddenly you can do whatever you want with it. It takes extensive physical therapy to learn how to compensate for the loss of a limb. So no, normal people WOULDN'T be able to do it, because they haven't LEARNED it.

      Aside from that, simply having arms changes your range of motion. Having your arms tied taut means that you can't fully extend your shoulder, because it's attached to your arm.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Katara broke ice just yelling at Soka, they don't need any fancy movements to bend and in my opnion they all have a low level psychic bending. The martial arts moves are just for a better use of bending in a fight.

      I'm pretty sure the cracks in the ice were caused by the backwards movement of her arms.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      SaitamaBro wrote: As easy as lavabending, combustionbending and unassisted flight. Why didn't no one(except for Sparky Sparky Boom Man, but he could only shot in a straight line) did those things if the RL members can do with ease?

      well lavabending is also stupid (but, that is a different discussion). combustion bending is a freak ability you are born with soooo....that is easy any way. not sure how I feel about unassisted flight. I feel like not enough is known about it. but, it can definitely be made to work well with the show.


      Why is it stupid? And i think it's not a different discussion, it shows that the RL members have very rare and different abilities so it's not weird that she can bend with her spine and shoulder blades. Also, you're not born with combustionbending wich is a technique described as "firebending with your mind", it's a hard technique and you can die trying to learn it.

        Loading editor
    • Snekradguy wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      Katara broke ice just yelling at Soka, they don't need any fancy movements to bend and in my opnion they all have a low level psychic bending. The martial arts moves are just for a better use of bending in a fight.
      I'm pretty sure the cracks in the ice were caused by the backwards movement of her arms.

      And that have nothing to do with the fact she was angry? Whenever she moves her arms backwards she cracks ice?

      I will use another example: when she was fighting Hama and she was bloodbended she dryed the plants in a circle around her. The only movements she did were closing her fist, you can say she bended the water by closing her fist but that makes less sense than saying Ming Hua can bend with her spine and remaining muscles.

      And what was the name of that Kung fu move Katara used to break the ice again? Bird Flaps Its Wings?

        Loading editor
    • Merry Midge wrote: It's still no different than Bumi bending with his face (Or when Aang did it to raise himself to his feet). Ming-Hua was born without arms. If Bumi could learn to bend with his face, then it's not out of the norm for her to learn to bend without the use of arms - especially since she has been without them her whole life.

      how many times do I need to say it? he is one of the best AND he cant do that much. its hardly practical in a fight. (he never uses it).

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Why is it stupid? And i think it's not a different discussion, it shows that the RL members have very rare and different abilities so it's not weird that she can bend with her spine and shoulder blades. Also, you're not born with combustionbending wich is a technique described as "firebending with your mind", it's a hard technique and you can die trying to learn it.

      It is stupid for different reasons than non limb bending. I will make another thread and we can discuss it there.

      Here it is: http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:1304534

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      And that have nothing to do with the fact she was angry? Whenever she moves her arms backwards she cracks ice?

      I will use another example: when she was fighting Hama and she was bloodbended she dryed the plants in a circle around her. The only movements she did were closing her fist, you can say she bended the water by closing her fist but that makes less sense than saying Ming Hua can bend with her spine and remaining muscles.

      And what was the name of that Kung fu move Katara used to break the ice again? Bird Flaps Its Wings?

      she was angry so she bent the water angrily around her....how is that hard to understand?

      she closed her hand. that is using her limb. and such a small movement didn't even do a move that was effective by itself. it simply pulled the water from the grass. to actually do fighting moves she needed her arms.

      and katara's flappy arm movements are why the bending was random and uncontrolled. katara had trouble controlling the water at first because she didn't know how to do the movements correctly.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Or Toph being able to see with her feet. People learn unusual bending skills, &/or how to use unorthodox bodyparts in bending, quite frequently.

      Again, going with the prosthetic analogy that the OP clearly does not understand, you can't just have your arm hacked off, put a fake one on, & suddenly you can do whatever you want with it. It takes extensive physical therapy to learn how to compensate for the loss of a limb. So no, normal people WOULDN'T be able to do it, because they haven't LEARNED it.

      Aside from that, simply having arms changes your range of motion. Having your arms tied taut means that you can't fully extend your shoulder, because it's attached to your arm.

      but...toph cant actually SEE with her feet. it is basically echolocation but with the sense of feel instead of hearing. it is another form of perception. doesn't she often say "i feel something". might I also add it is with her FEET.

      and nobody frequently used non-limb body parts before LOK. it was actually last resort most of the time. or a surprise attack.

      and shoulders hardly have range of motion anyway. they should hardly be able to bend.

        Loading editor
    • There should be a rule against making 80 different threads that are all just your soap box for saying that everything is stupid. How hard is it to just make a thread called "Everything is Stupid, I Don't Care What You Say"? Jesus.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Merry Midge wrote: It's still no different than Bumi bending with his face (Or when Aang did it to raise himself to his feet). Ming-Hua was born without arms. If Bumi could learn to bend with his face, then it's not out of the norm for her to learn to bend without the use of arms - especially since she has been without them her whole life.

      how many times do I need to say it? he is one of the best AND he cant do that much. its hardly practical in a fight. (he never uses it).

      The point is that he can do it. So Ming-Hua bending without arms is not really odd.

      Sure Bumi is one of the "best", but  Ming-Hua has been bending for some years herself (I don't know her actual age) and has been without her arms her entire life.

      Assuming Bumi had learned to bend with his limbs first and as he mastered his abilities, then with his face. Ming-Hua probably learned first that she could bend through using her legs.

        Loading editor
    • Plus, Ming Hua normally attacks by moving her whole body. If you see how she battled Kya, she always used twisty body movements to increase her arm attacks. And at the misty palms oasis, when she spotted Korra, she jumped and used a spiral motion in order to attack. And don't forget her makeshift drill. And when she broke P'li out, she did a flip in the air.

      So in ways she uses her whole body to augment her bending.

        Loading editor
    • Are you seriously saying she bended water by clenching her fist?

      Also, the shoulder and back muscles are as important as the arm to deliver a strike. Try giving a punch without moving your shoulder or using your back.

        Loading editor
    • Maybe bending has always been psychic, but benders use their limbs because it's easer to direct their element with a medium. Seems to me the power fo bending shouldn't be reliant on whether you have limbs or not

        Loading editor
    • Like the eye tatoo combustionbenders have can serve to help them focus the power in their forehead and don't blow up.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: There should be a rule against making 80 different threads that are all just your soap box for saying that everything is stupid. How hard is it to just make a thread called "Everything is Stupid, I Don't Care What You Say"? Jesus.

      everyone else is actually trying to make points and such. you are just be rude because you don't like me or something. I tried making one thread, it was way too complicated to talk about 10 things at once.

        Loading editor
    • Merry Midge wrote: The point is that he can do it. So Ming-Hua bending without arms is not really odd.

      Sure Bumi is one of the "best", but  Ming-Hua has been bending for some years herself (I don't know her actual age) and has been without her arms her entire life.

      Assuming Bumi had learned to bend with his limbs first and as he mastered his abilities, then with his face. Ming-Hua probably learned first that she could bend through using her legs.

      yes but, he cant do very much with his face. and the head has a lot more range of motion than shoulders and can actually be used in real life. but, the main point is that he CANNOT do very much. and still needs his arms and legs to fight. ming hua does a hell of a lot with just her shoulders.

        Loading editor
    • Corpington wrote: Plus, Ming Hua normally attacks by moving her whole body. If you see how she battled Kya, she always used twisty body movements to increase her arm attacks. And at the misty palms oasis, when she spotted Korra, she jumped and used a spiral motion in order to attack. And don't forget her makeshift drill. And when she broke P'li out, she did a flip in the air.

      So in ways she uses her whole body to augment her bending.

      ok, my entire point is that the first series established that you need arms and legs to do the majority of bending moves. and that when a benders arms and legs were immobilized they could hardly do anything.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Are you seriously saying she bended water by clenching her fist?

      Also, the shoulder and back muscles are as important as the arm to deliver a strike. Try giving a punch without moving your shoulder or using your back.

      I think she closed (not clenched) her fist to draw some water out of plants. i'd have to check again. but, simply drawing some water out of plants isn't a fighting move. yes you many need to do it first before you fight. but, to actually fight they always needed to do martial arts moves.

        Loading editor
    • QueenCeline wrote: Maybe bending has always been psychic, but benders use their limbs because it's easer to direct their element with a medium. Seems to me the power fo bending shouldn't be reliant on whether you have limbs or not

      that's a big maybe. and not substantiated by anything in ATLA.

        Loading editor
    • I don't think she drawed the water by closing her fists. And we are discussing bending, drawing water out of plants is bending, as is making rocks fly towards you to break a metal door.

      How is it that Bumi bends by contorting his face(not a headbutt) and Katara bends by closing her fists but Ming Hua can't bend using her whole body aside from her arms(that she, of course, don't have)?

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: I don't think she drawed the water by closing her fists. And we are discussing bending, drawing water out of plants is bending, as is making rocks fly towards you to break a metal door.

      How is it that Bumi bends by contorting his face(not a headbutt) and Katara bends by closing her fists but Ming Hua can't bend using her whole body aside from her arms(that she, of course, don't have)?

      because they aren't doing fighting moves. they are doing simpler things. they STILL require limbs to do fighting moves. ming hua is doing tons of excellent fighting moves without limbs.

        Loading editor
    • How is making little pieces of rock fly towards you with enough force to destroy a heavy metal door no usable in a fight?

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: How is making little pieces of rock fly towards you with enough force to destroy a heavy metal door no usable in a fight?

      they were flying TOWARDS him. not away from him. they didn't destroy the door, they pried it open (so probably destroyed some thin nails or hinges). it may be usable in a fight on occasion (like a headbutt). but not often. because if it was regularly useful he would've used it. if bumi had just used his head in an entire fight, I would think that would've been stupid.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote: Maybe bending has always been psychic, but benders use their limbs because it's easer to direct their element with a medium. Seems to me the power fo bending shouldn't be reliant on whether you have limbs or not

      that's a big maybe. and not substantiated by anything in ATLA.

      If you have a better explanation, I'd like to hear it

        Loading editor
    • That doesn't mean he can't do it. He was bending with his mind, unless you think he bended by the ultimate kung fu move of grimacing.

        Loading editor
    • QueenCeline wrote: If you have a better explanation, I'd like to hear it

      a better explanation is that movement is required to do 99% of everything to do with bending. and that movement of limbs is required to do 95% of fighting moves.

      and that ming hua is a mistake on the writers part.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: That doesn't mean he can't do it. He was bending with his mind, unless you think he bended by the ultimate kung fu move of grimacing.

      well he also tilts his head back. but, he even if it is with his face, that is his face not his mind. and the point remains that he doesn't do much. I think the fact that he only does simple things with his head and the fact that he never uses it in a fight is a pretty good indicator that he needs his arms and legs. there is a reason he broke himself out of the coffin. so he could use his arms and legs. if he was so great with his head. he could've just taken it back without leaving the coffin.

        Loading editor
    • Corpington wrote: Plus, Ming Hua normally attacks by moving her whole body. If you see how she battled Kya, she always used twisty body movements to increase her arm attacks. And at the misty palms oasis, when she spotted Korra, she jumped and used a spiral motion in order to attack. And don't forget her makeshift drill. And when she broke P'li out, she did a flip in the air.

      So in ways she uses her whole body to augment her bending.

      Only noticed the drill. That's neat.

      That doesn't mean he can't do it. He was bending with his mind, unless you think he bended by the ultimate kung fu move of grimacing.

      Haha. Also, that literally makes more sense than all of this "no it's actually only useful for opening that one door somehow" stuff.

      Also that the people who make the series just forgot how Bending works, because the alternate explanation, that Avatar Nate is simply wrong, is just impossible.

      Maybe bending has always been psychic, but benders use their limbs because it's easer to direct their element with a medium. Seems to me the power fo bending shouldn't be reliant on whether you have limbs or not

      Despite claims to the contrary, this is basically accurate, & it was seen several times that sufficiently powerful Benders could maintain their abilities without moving at all. Avatar State Element Sphere comes to mind.

      This is where we get some special pleading nonsense that the Avatar State can't be used as an example like I care or something.

        Loading editor
    • ^if he was bending with his mind, he wouldn't have been moving his head and face.

      and many of you are giving two different explanations for ming hua. I've heard psychic and I've heard shoulders. well which is it?

      writers mess stuff up all the time. they probably just wanted to appeal to the fans. they care more about money than consistency.

      aang still needed his limbs to put all the elements around him. he also needed his limbs to actually shoot any of the elements at ozai. even the most powerful being in the world in his most powerful state. needed his limbs to attack. there is nothing like ming hua or yakone/amon in ATLA.

      you are also still be rude.

        Loading editor
    • I are also still be don't care.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: I are also still be don't care.

      wow. making fun of a typo instead of coming up with a rebuttal. that's a great logical argument!

      seriously, everyone else is being respectful and actually trying to come up with counterpoints to my argument instead of attacking me.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote: If you have a better explanation, I'd like to hear it

      a better explanation is that movement is required to do 99% of everything to do with bending. and that movement of limbs is required to do 95% of fighting moves.

      and that ming hua is a mistake on the writers part.

      Well, she obviously isn't a mistake by the writers, so maybe you should try thinking outside of the box?

        Loading editor
    • a better explanation is that movement is required to do 99% of everything to do with bending. and that movement of limbs is required to do 95% of fighting moves.

      Yes, but they aren't trowing punches they are controlling the elements, so i'd say the shoulder and back muscles are as required as arms, even more.

      well he also tilts his head back. but, he even if it is with his face, that is his face not his mind

      So he is bending with his face? I will consider this here then because it's already been proved they have psychic bending but you keep saying they were just doing minor things so i will just argue in the premise he was bending with his face. He's bending with his face, a body part even more useless than the shoulder/back/spine/whole body in a fight. This creates a contradiction: You say Ming Hua isn't supposed to fight using body parts that are used in fights but when i say Bumi was bending with his mind you said he used his face(a part not important in a fight, unless you want to scare your oponent) to bend. Do you see how contradictory this is?

      and the point remains that he doesn't do much

      He destroyed a fucking metal door. Yes, he destroyed it because the rocks didn't destroyed thin nails like you said, they bended the door. Here:

      You can also see more limbless bending in the video.

      there is a reason he broke himself out of the coffin. so he could use his arms and legs. if he was so great with his head. he could've just taken it back without leaving the coffin.
      ^if he was bending with his mind, he wouldn't have been moving his head and face.

      The reason because he is twisting his face is because it takes a lot of efforts and he probably never did it before(bend with his mind), i never said psychic bending was easy to do(only in LoK it is) i just said they all have some kind of psychic bending because they aren't bending with the movement of theyr limbs they are bending by using their chi to control/create the elements and they use their body to channel the chi and have a better control of the elements. So, it's something he can do but is harder than bending with his body.

      and many of you are giving two different explanations for ming hua. I've heard psychic and I've heard shoulders. well which is it?

      Both, since you need mind and body to bend, and no, one is not more important than the other.

      aang still needed his limbs to put all the elements around him. he also needed his limbs to actually shoot any of the elements at ozai. even the most powerful being in the world in his most powerful state. needed his limbs to attack. there is nothing like ming hua or yakone/amon in ATLA.

      4:47 He create an air bubble without making any movements.

      5:38 He uses his limbs and mouth(very useful in a fight, i must say) to create fire but unlike you said he only bend water into the elemental tornado by making martial arts movements.

      Also:

      Elemental tornado
      How is he making the elements keep flying in a circle without making any movement? According to you theory they should fall as soon as he stopped moving.
        Loading editor
    • This may or may not have been mentioned already, but you don't even have to be the avatar to bend without using your limbs. King Bumi broke out of his imprisonment and took back the city of Omashu by earthbending using only neck and head movements. And Amon had psychic bloodbending, which is bending by only using your mind and nothing else. Limbs are far from necessary. I feel that limbs are somewhat like training wheels for benders. They use them because it makes it easier, but once you gain enough skill, they aren't completely necessary.

        Loading editor
    • They are completely necessarie for any bender, aside from Amon, Yakone and combustionbenders.

      Ming Hua still use her body and, as i said above, they all have some kind of psychic bending but it's not something you can easily do.

        Loading editor
    • I never said you didn't have to use your body. I said you don't need limbs to do it. The show makes that perfectly clear. Psychic bending is an extremely rare ability and only a few can do it, but limbs, meaning arms and legs, are not necessary for skilled benders to manipulate their element. As I mentioned in my previous post, Bumi when he took back Omashu is the perfect example.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote: I are also still be don't care.

      wow. making fun of a typo instead of coming up with a rebuttal. that's a great logical argument!

      seriously, everyone else is being respectful and actually trying to come up with counterpoints to my argument instead of attacking me.

      If you want respect, earn it.

      The fact that other people argue with you doesn't prove that you deserve to be taken seriously, it only proves that you're already getting explanations, which you're ignoring because you assume that nobody, not even the writers, knows better than you.

      And if you don't want your grammar mocked, try typing properly. Or at least stop whining about my tone, which is just as irrelevant as your grammar.

        Loading editor
    • QueenCeline wrote:

      Well, she obviously isn't a mistake by the writers, so maybe you should try thinking outside of the box?

      maybe the word "mistake" isn't as fitting as "complete disregard for the original premise".

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:

      Well, she obviously isn't a mistake by the writers, so maybe you should try thinking outside of the box?

      maybe the word "mistake" isn't as fitting as "complete disregard for the original premise".

      As I said in your other thread, there's no rule that says that sequels can't introduce new concepts or rethink old ones. You act like the original premise is some perfect thing that can't be changed or else everything is ruined.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      Yes, but they aren't trowing punches they are controlling the elements, so i'd say the shoulder and back muscles are as required as arms, even more.

      So he is bending with his face? I will consider this here then because it's already been proved they have psychic bending but you keep saying they were just doing minor things so i will just argue in the premise he was bending with his face. He's bending with his face, a body part even more useless than the shoulder/back/spine/whole body in a fight. This creates a contradiction: You say Ming Hua isn't supposed to fight using body parts that are used in fights but when i say Bumi was bending with his mind you said he used his face(a part not important in a fight, unless you want to scare your oponent) to bend. Do you see how contradictory this is?

      He destroyed a fucking metal door. Yes, he destroyed it because the rocks didn't destroyed thin nails like you said, they bended the door. Here:

      You can also see more limbless bending in the video.


      The reason because he is twisting his face is because it takes a lot of efforts and he probably never did it before(bend with his mind), i never said psychic bending was easy to do(only in LoK it is) i just said they all have some kind of psychic bending because they aren't bending with the movement of theyr limbs they are bending by using their chi to control/create the elements and they use their body to channel the chi and have a better control of the elements. So, it's something he can do but is harder than bending with his body.

      Both, since you need mind and body to bend, and no, one is not more important than the other.

      4:47 He create an air bubble without making any movements.

      5:38 He uses his limbs and mouth(very useful in a fight, i must say) to create fire but unlike you said he only bend water into the elemental tornado by making martial arts movements.

      Also:

      Elemental tornado
      How is he making the elements keep flying in a circle without making any movement? According to you theory they should fall as soon as he stopped moving.

      of course the shoulder and back are required. they are required TO MOVE YOUR ARMS. that doesn't mean you can do something with them by themselves.

      I said "even if it is with his face". I think the majority of the bending was caused by his head (which is occasionally useful in a fight). bumi DOESNT use his face in a fight. ming hua uses her shoulders to do everyone advanced fight move that she does. I DID say it would be fine if shoulders could do a few minor things.

      well they pried the door off the coffin. and yes they did ripple it. but, he didn't blow a whole in it, or ripple it in half. bending is usually always pretty powerful its just COMPARED to other bending (like what is done with limbs) what he did wasn't that great. and what other limbless bending is in that video?

      ok, so lets say psychic bending exists. you said bumi hasn't done it before? he was perfectly fine being locked up because he knew he could get out. if it is psychic bending he was using to get out, he has obviously done before. so even if psychic bending exists, one of the most powerful benders STILL needs his arms and legs to fight. so whether these non-limb benders in ATLA are using their minor body parts or psychic. they STILL need their arms and legs. oh, and he said "they didn't cover my face". so I think that is pretty obvious that he is using his muscles and not his mind.

      so if you think you need a mind and a body to bend and they are equally important. shouldn't losing part of your body drastically inhibit your ability to bend?

      ok. lets look at the aang avatar state thing.

      at 4:47 he created the air bubble by holding up his arms/hands. he wasn't just standing their with his limbs at his side.

      the elements start moving towards aang when he is so small on the screen you cant even tell if he is moving or not. its likely he did a move for that to happen. holding a pose can mean what was happening keeps happening. if an earthbender lifts his arm to raise a chunk of earth and holds his arm there. I think the chunk should stay raised. if a waterbender holds his arm out to create a stream of water it should stay. so that explains why they stay. aang was holding them with his pose. so the most powerful being in his most powerful state does minimal movement to bend the elements towards him. aang has the combined power of like 100 avatars. given that, its not that hard to believe he can move the elements towards him with minimal muscle movement. but even IF he was using psychic bending. the most powerful being in his most powerful state could only use psychic bending to make the elements float around him. he STILL needed his limbs to attack.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      If you want respect, earn it.

      The fact that other people argue with you doesn't prove that you deserve to be taken seriously, it only proves that you're already getting explanations, which you're ignoring because you assume that nobody, not even the writers, knows better than you.

      And if you don't want your grammar mocked, try typing properly. Or at least stop whining about my tone, which is just as irrelevant as your grammar.

      that wasn't my grammar. it was my spelling. but, I am not going to make fun of you for that mistake because it is tiny and irrelevant. I am also not going to make fun of you for starting a sentence with "or".

      I'm not ignoring the explanations. I am addressing them. whether I am correct or not, I am not ignoring them.

        Loading editor
    • The issue with your sentence was that your verb tense was wrong. Tense errors are grammatical. You're also speaking as if this is the only error that I noticed, which isn't even close to the truth.

      It is also not incorrect to start a sentence with a conjunction. And before you even say it, double negatives are acceptable if the concept you're emphasizing is already a negative, as in this case, where I'm addressing a common claim that a certain practice is "incorrect."

      Good thing you "didn't" mock my English. Criticizing things that aren't even wrong while trying to prove that you know grammatical rules would have been a pretty massive failure.

      As to your last claim, refusing to acknowledge facts based on patently ridiculous excuses is functionally equivalent to ignoring them.

        Loading editor
    • of course the shoulder and back are required. they are required TO MOVE YOUR ARMS. that doesn't mean you can do something with them by themselves.

      But they are not punching people, THEY ARE CONTROLLING THE ELEMENTS.

      well they pried the door off the coffin. and yes they did ripple it. but, he didn't blow a whole in it, or ripple it in half. bending is usually always pretty powerful its just COMPARED to other bending (like what is done with limbs) what he did wasn't that great. and what other limbless bending is in that video?

      Still, an attack that can do that to a heavy metal door is far from useless, maybe nothing great just something that can kill anyone hit by it. When he moves fowards after the firebenders try and fail at bending and when he uses a rock to trow him up.

      ok, so lets say psychic bending exists. you said bumi hasn't done it before? he was perfectly fine being locked up because he knew he could get out. if it is psychic bending he was using to get out, he has obviously done before. so even if psychic bending exists, one of the most powerful benders STILL needs his arms and legs to fight. so whether these non-limb benders in ATLA are using their minor body parts or psychic. they STILL need their arms and legs. oh, and he said "they didn't cover my face". so I think that is pretty obvious that he is using his muscles and not his mind.

      Ming Hua is using her muscles too. She uses her back, shoulder, whole body, whatever someone say you just say it's not possible but when i said Bumi used his mind to bend you said he used the muscles in his face. Still not seeing the contradiction? Before you say anything: "They didn't cover my face.", why didn't he said anything about his head that you claim to be what he used to bend?

      so if you think you need a mind and a body to bend and they are equally important. shouldn't losing part of your body drastically inhibit your ability to bend?

      Yes, but not only she was born like that she never showed any kind of fighting that needed her arms.

      ok. lets look at the aang avatar state thing.

      Good.

      at 4:47 he created the air bubble by holding up his arms/hands. he wasn't just standing their with his limbs at his side.

      3:53 He is already with his arm up, but no sign of air bubble. And in airbending they need to make circular movements to make this kind of thing. Also, he is with his arm up because THERE'S A MAN TROWING GIANT FIRE BALLS AT HIM.

      the elements start moving towards aang when he is so small on the screen you cant even tell if he is moving or not. its likely he did a move for that to happen.

      It's also likely he didn't.

      holding a pose can mean what was happening keeps happening. if an earthbender lifts his arm to raise a chunk of earth and holds his arm there. I think the chunk should stay raised. if a waterbender holds his arm out to create a stream of water it should stay.

      When Haru is bending a giant rock he makes it float and do other movements while the rock stay still. This can also be seen when Iroh and Zuko fight the earthbenders. Aang is not making the elements stay still he is making them circle around him. You lost there saying that by not moving he is bending.


      Just wanted your opinion on something. When people with abilitys like telekinesis(moving things with your mind) raise their hands to control something, you think they are doing it because it facilitate his control or he is actually controling the object with his muscle?

        Loading editor
    • @TheAvatarNate: I wouldn't say martial arts movements are required ... take Mako for instance. He didn't do any sort of movement when facing against Amon, and he still managed to blast him with lightning. But from what I've seen of your posts, I guess you'll argue that "simply pointing is like jabbing someone in the eye" XD

        Loading editor
    • Still not seeing the contradiction?

      He'll never see it. Or he'll pretend not to. I'm not 100% sure which. The fact that he can grasp what an ad hominem is, then suddenly forgets that when he starts using them, leads me to believe that some of this obfuscation is intentional deception.

        Loading editor
    • Sure, losing a body part might slow a bender down.  However, Ming-Hua's lack of arms has been confirmed as congenital diamelia.

      That means she'd had pretty much her entire life (less the time spent in prison) to practice.  Sure, she was the youngest-looking Red Lotus op...but remember that Katara went from barely competent to master in less than a year, and Ming-Hua would have to be giving 110% to compensate for lack of arm gestures.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      But they are not punching people, THEY ARE CONTROLLING THE ELEMENTS.

      Still, an attack that can do that to a heavy metal door is far from useless, maybe nothing great just something that can kill anyone hit by it. When he moves fowards after the firebenders try and fail at bending and when he uses a rock to trow him up.

      Ming Hua is using her muscles too. She uses her back, shoulder, whole body, whatever someone say you just say it's not possible but when i said Bumi used his mind to bend you said he used the muscles in his face. Still not seeing the contradiction? Before you say anything: "They didn't cover my face.", why didn't he said anything about his head that you claim to be what he used to bend?

      Yes, but not only she was born like that she never showed any kind of fighting that needed her arms.

      Good.

      3:53 He is already with his arm up, but no sign of air bubble. And in airbending they need to make circular movements to make this kind of thing. Also, he is with his arm up because THERE'S A MAN TROWING GIANT FIRE BALLS AT HIM.

      It's also likely he didn't.

      When Haru is bending a giant rock he makes it float and do other movements while the rock stay still. This can also be seen when Iroh and Zuko fight the earthbenders. Aang is not making the elements stay still he is making them circle around him. You lost there saying that by not moving he is bending.


      Just wanted your opinion on something. When people with abilitys like telekinesis(moving things with your mind) raise their hands to control something, you think they are doing it because it facilitate his control or he is actually controling the object with his muscle?

      yeah.....they are controlling the elements. with their bodies, mostly their arms and legs.

      I never said the head attacks were useless just not USUALLY useful. and that one could not fight with just their head. and those times you refer to, he was using his legs.

      I am NOT saying that it is not possible to bend with your shoulders etc. I am saying that you shouldn't be able to do anything fancy with them. you shouldn't be able to fight with just them. just as bumi did not fight with his head. just as everyone needs their arms and legs to fight.

      being born with a disability is no excuse. just because you are born with a disability, doesn't mean you can overcome it. no matter how much time you have. and she did a lot of great fighting moves, I think that requires arms.

      as soon as the earth breaks away there is an air bubble. you are saying that you NEED to make circular movements to do a move? but, then saying that he did it with his mind as an alternative? why couldn't he do it with his hands?

      based on the previous bending movements in the series. it IS likely he did. but, we really do have no way of knowing.

      the rocks that are a being made the float are slowly going up and down. so they are moving. isn't it fair to say that the most powerful bender by far can make something go it a circle with a pose?

      telekinesis isn't real so....yeah. maybe give a fictional example?

      You also said that psychic bending exists in ATLA but isn't easy. and then it becomes easy in LOK. isn't that an inconsistency?

      I am also open to the idea of psychic bending, I just don't think it should be able to do much. and that doing moves with arms and legs should be required for most fighting moves. as heavily evidenced by ATLA.

      also, no one has tried to explain how what ming hua does isn't OP. even if she is a freak like combustion man. he HAD a weakness. while ming hua has less than the average person.

        Loading editor
    • Dragonboy6491 wrote: @TheAvatarNate: I wouldn't say martial arts movements are required ... take Mako for instance. He didn't do any sort of movement when facing against Amon, and he still managed to blast him with lightning. But from what I've seen of your posts, I guess you'll argue that "simply pointing is like jabbing someone in the eye" XD

      well, he did move. but, this is also an example from LOK. Which is where I believe the universe got inconsistent. I DID think it was stupid that he could shoot lightning that easily with such power but, that is yet another discussion.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      This is where we get some special pleading nonsense that the Avatar State can't be used as an example like I care or something.

      you yourself said not to count avatar powers. don't remember? it was back in the day. http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:1192997

      you keep rambling about grammar and stuff because you have no actual arguments. I tried to tell you to stop but, you keep doing it.

      saitamabro actually comes up with arguments and doesn't start calling people stupid when people don't accept everything that he says. he keeps arguing.

      ^trying learning from him.

      I also feel bad for anyone who meets you because apparently you are mean to people until respect is "earned".

        Loading editor
    • What I actually said was that the Avatar has powers not related to the 4 elements. Which we now know are forms of Energybending. So nice try, but no.

      Except the grammar dispute nicely demonstrates several of the dishonest debate tactics that you use:

      1. Distorting what was said, such as conveniently neglecting to mention that you tried to correct my own grammar, implying that I was the only one doing it.

      2. Hypocrisy, such as saying that it's wrong to try to correct someone's grammar, then not only doing it yourself, but expecting me to just ignore it.

      3. When proven wrong on a point, instead of admitting it, deflect & blame the other person for something.

      How about YOU try learning from Saitama?

        Loading editor
    • I never said the head attacks were useless just not USUALLY useful. and that one could not fight with just their head. and those times you refer to, he was using his legs. I am NOT saying that it is not possible to bend with your shoulders etc. I am saying that you shouldn't be able to do anything fancy with them. you shouldn't be able to fight with just them. just as bumi did not fight with his head. just as everyone needs their arms and legs to fight.

      No, he wasn't. He didn't move his legs he inclined his torso in the direction he wanted to go. Ming Hua had all her life to train bnding without her arms and that was probably the first time Bumi did that. Also, Ming Hua style of bending is very different to other waterbenders style just compare it to Katara, Pakku and Kya, in her fights she heavily relies on her tentacles because since she have no arms she can't do normal waterbending moves.

      being born with a disability is no excuse. just because you are born with a disability, doesn't mean you can overcome it. no matter how much time you have

      Uh...no.



      as soon as the earth breaks away there is an air bubble. you are saying that you NEED to make circular movements to do a move? but, then saying that he did it with his mind as an alternative? why couldn't he do it with his hands?

      Now you're changing what i said. I used this as an example of him bending without making any movements, then you said he did it with his arms(pointing to the fact that his arms were raised) to wich i responded saying his arms were already in that position almost a minute before the air bubble appeared. If you consider he needed to make a movement to create it(i didn't, i was only arguing considering it) he needed to make a circular movement like the ones he do when he make the air scooter.

      the rocks that are a being made the float are slowly going up and down. so they are moving. isn't it fair to say that the most powerful bender by far can make something go it a circle with a pose?

      No, they aren't. I'm talking about a guy that takes more or less 5 rocks the size of watermelons and do a dance with his head before trowing them. They only start moving when he moves his arm to trow them.

      telekinesis isn't real so....yeah. maybe give a fictional example?

      Were you perhaps joking here? I was talking about fictional things, sorry if it made you think i believed we can move cars with our minds. You can see this example i gave you in almost any movies/cartoons/comics that people have this power, even though they do it with their mind sometimes they raise their hands or, believe it or not, twist their faces and move their bodies(remembering that they have the power of telekinesis that is moving things with one's MIND) because what they are doing is too hard(making something too heavy float, or bending rocks with you mind when you don't have much training in this kind of thing. But you know what? Just forget about this i will make use of an Avatarverse character. Amon sometimes while using his psychic bending(that was said by the creators, what he do is psychic bending) point his hand at someone he is bending. Now in your opinion he does that because it's easier to control his power that way although he is still using his mind to bend, or the creators are wrong and he is actually psychic bending with his hand?

      You also said that psychic bending exists in ATLA but isn't easy. and then it becomes easy in LOK. isn't that an inconsistency?

      Well, lightning generation wasn't easy and was said in ATLA that only a select few can do it, but in LoK there's not only a lot of firebenders doing it but they are doing it IN A FACTORY. The most talented firebenders are working in a factory while there's two idiots as police officers(Mako joins the police later, but anyway).I found the way they made lightining generation and metalbending things that everyday Joes can do more "stupid" than the way they handled psychic bending in LoK. Altough not only psychic bending but also bloodbending made Amon fall in my list of villains.

      I am also open to the idea of psychic bending, I just don't think it should be able to do much. and that doing moves with arms and legs should be required for most fighting moves. as heavily evidenced by ATLA.

      I agree with you there. Psychic bending only works in cases like: tking water from plants, making rocks float towards you with dificulty or making the elements fly around you.

      also, no one has tried to explain how what ming hua does isn't OP. even if she is a freak like combustion man. he HAD a weakness. while ming hua has less than the average person

      As i said, her waterbend style is limited to her tentacles, most of the time she is just hitting people with them or grabbing them. If she had fought Katara/Pakku/Noatak/Unalaq(just saying the waterbenders, you can include other powerful benders from ATLA in the list) she would be humiliated. Seriously now, the RL are only strong as a group they all have poor performances when fighting alone. Only flying Zaheer is OP and that is purely due to flight and that alone.

      saitamabro actually comes up with arguments and doesn't start calling people stupid when people don't accept everything that he says. he keeps arguing. ^trying learning from him.
      How about YOU try learning from Saitama?

      Oh... stop, you guys.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: What I actually said was that the Avatar has powers not related to the 4 elements. Which we now know are forms of Energybending. So nice try, but no.

      Except the grammar dispute nicely demonstrates several of the dishonest debate tactics that you use:

      1. Distorting what was said, such as conveniently neglecting to mention that you tried to correct my own grammar, implying that I was the only one doing it.

      2. Hypocrisy, such as saying that it's wrong to try to correct someone's grammar, then not only doing it yourself, but expecting me to just ignore it.

      3. When proven wrong on a point, instead of admitting it, deflect & blame the other person for something.

      How about YOU try learning from Saitama?

      ok. fair enough. you are right about that.

      1. I didn't say you are the only one doing it. I said it is irrelevant to this discussion. even if I did it too, what I was doing was irrelevant.

      2. just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them or that they are incorrect. that is a major flaw in thinking that many people do. I say "don't jump off a cliff" and then jump off a cliff, does that mean you wont listen to me?

      3. I just admitted I was wrong about something in the fist sentence of this post soo yeah. when have I deflected blame on someone else?

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: stuff

      I don't know how to quote individual lines and respond between them. I have tried things but, it doesn't work. can someone tell me?

      aaanyway. we actually don't see his legs when he starts moving so yeah. I always thought he did like a squat like thing and leaning was what made him go in that direction. and even if he used only his torso, "moving on some earth" isn't a fight move in and of itself. like I said it is reasonable to assume bumi did whatever he did before (face/head, psychic whatever) because he had no problem being locked up with his head exposed. if he had never done it, how would he have known he could do it? and the way he says "they didn't cover my face" implies that he has done stuff like that before.

      yes, name someone who has completely overcome their disability because they had time. in real life people are all still at disadvantages because of their disabilities. heck, even Toph didn't completely overcome her disability. she is still cant see. she is completely vulnerable to airborne attacks. what she does really isn't even seeing at all. its completely different.

      well as soon as the earth breaks away the bubble is there. and I think you can shoot wind/fire out of your arms and legs without moving it. but, you still need you limb to do it.

      ok, I was talking about when earthbenders are holding rocks above their head they are slowly going up and down in place. I said if a normal earthbender could do that, isn't ok if the avatar state avatar could make some go in a circle?

      yes, I was asking for a fictional example because different examples can be different. I actually thought amon could only use his mind to like "hold" someone in place and that he had to actually move to move them around.

      so you agree that the change of lightning and metalbending in LOK was inconsistent? because I think that is stupid as well. (there are a lot of things about LOK I think are stupid).

      ok, nice to see we agree on something. I actually think we might be able to come up with some sort of ultimate agreement.

      ok, so if you think psychic bending should only be able to do some basic things. isn't what ming hua is doing pretty good? I only watched LOK once but, I remember her kicking a lot of ass. they WOULD often break off into little duels anyway. she beat Mako a lot. I also think Ghazan's lavabending is really OP but, we can discuss that over on the other board.

      so it seems now that our main disagreement is how good Ming Hua is. so how do you think she makes her tentacles? a combination of psychic and her shoulders?

      we seem to agree that psychic bending shouldn't be able to do much. and that the limbs are still required to do most fighting moves. correct me if I am wrong here.

        Loading editor
    • ok. fair enough. you are right about that. 1. I didn't say you are the only one doing it. I said it is irrelevant to this discussion. even if I did it too, what I was doing was irrelevant.

      I am legitimately impressed by this turn of events.

      2. just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them or that they are incorrect. that is a major flaw in thinking that many people do. I say "don't jump off a cliff" and then jump off a cliff, does that mean you wont listen to me?

      That's not why the claim is wrong, the claim is wrong because it's wrong. More specifically, Ming-Hua's powers are only "inconsistent" according to the arbitrary claim that it's impossible to learn to use muscles other than your arms to conduct water whips & other techniques.

      Everything else is a matter of pragmatism.

      I don't know how to quote individual lines and respond between them. I have tried things but, it doesn't work. can someone tell me?

      <div class="quote">Text to be quoted.</div>

        Loading editor
    • aaanyway. we actually don't see his legs when he starts moving so yeah. I always thought he did like a squat like thing and leaning was what made him go in that direction. and even if he used only his torso, "moving on some earth" isn't a fight move in and of itself. like I said it is reasonable to assume bumi did whatever he did before (face/head, psychic whatever) because he had no problem being locked up with his head exposed. if he had never done it, how would he have known he could do it? and the way he says "they didn't cover my face" implies that he has done stuff like that before.

      It's not a fighting move but is still bending without limbs. Yes, he may just not have trained it.

      even Toph didn't completely overcome her disability. she is still cant see

      But overcoming your disability is not about making it disappear.

      I actually thought amon could only use his mind to like "hold" someone in place and that he had to actually move to move them around.

      I don't know if Amon did it but his father manipulated Sokka and Toph using only his mind and when he was free and went to manipulate Aang he used his hand. Of course Amon is not Yakone but i think if he is not as powerful he is at least close to it.

      so you agree that the change of lightning and metalbending in LOK was inconsistent? because I think that is stupid as well. (there are a lot of things about LOK I think are stupid).

      Yes, i do. I also didn't like Amon being a bender or the way he treated the Lieutenant after he discovered it.

      ok, so if you think psychic bending should only be able to do some basic things. isn't what ming hua is doing pretty good? I only watched LOK once but, I remember her kicking a lot of ass. they WOULD often break off into little duels anyway. she beat Mako a lot. I also think Ghazan's lavabending is really OP but, we can discuss that over on the other board.

      If you're talking about my claim that they are not as strong individually as people say they are, Ming Hua only had 2 worthy oponnents, Kya and Mako, the first one being a healer and the other just not as strong as he was supposed to be. Ghazan's ability to lavabend is the only OP thing about him, when he went against Bolin and Mako if he was as powerful as people said he would've wiped the floor of lava with them. Zaheer was a nonbender altough he was still a very good martial artist his ability to control the others to fight eficiently as a group was what made him dangerous, after he gained airbending even if he caught the hang of it quickily he was still outmatched by Tenzin. The only thing OP about him is flying. P'li is by far the strongest of them but if you hit her head in the right point she will explode.

      so it seems now that our main disagreement is how good Ming Hua is. so how do you think she makes her tentacles? a combination of psychic and her shoulders?

      I think maintaining the tentacles in place and turning the tip into ice is psychic while she uses her body to move them.

      we seem to agree that psychic bending shouldn't be able to do much. and that the limbs are still required to do most fighting moves. correct me if I am wrong here.

      Yes, we agree in that at least shouldn't be able to do much in a fight,  otherwise it would be pretty boring and my favorite thing in ATLA is the kung fu. But i still think we disagree in other things like: Katara draining water from the plants and Bumi getting free and the elements flying around Aang were psychic bending, although i think it doesn't make sense that non-avatar characters can melt earth(the only reason i could find for that being possible is Bolin's mother being a firebender and we not knowing Ghazan's parents one of them can also be a firebender) i think that lavabending itself is not unreasonable and other earthbenders should be able to bend preexisting lava, chi is not magic power it's a mix of body and soul. That's about it. I made a gigantic post about how i think bending works but i lost it because my internet is evil, too lazy to write it all again.

      I don't know how to quote individual lines and respond between them. I have tried things but, it doesn't work. can someone tell me?

      I learned from Neo Bahamut(by the way, your name sound like a new hebraic demon, Neo) and when i try to teach like he does, this is what happens:

      Text you want to quote.
        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      That's not why the claim is wrong, the claim is wrong because it's wrong. More specifically, Ming-Hua's powers are only "inconsistent" according to the arbitrary claim that it's impossible to learn to use muscles other than your arms to conduct water whips & other techniques.

      Everything else is a matter of pragmatism.

      the claim isn't arbitrary. I have provided tons of examples as evidence.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      It's not a fighting move but is still bending without limbs. Yes, he may just not have trained it.

      experimental post blah blah blah

      even Toph didn't completely overcome her disability. she is still cant see

      But overcoming your disability is not about making it disappear. </div>

      blah blah balh expoerienmento

      Edit: cool, I did it.

        Loading editor
    • Fja3987
      Fja3987 removed this reply because:
      it is nothing
      02:53, January 16, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • ok, so I just wrote an entire reply and it got deleted for some reason. what the hell? gotta write it again......

        Loading editor
    • I learned from Neo Bahamut(by the way, your name sound like a new hebraic demon, Neo) and when i try to teach like he does, this is what happens:

      That's because I use the nowiki tag. I wonder if I can nowiki the nowiki? <nowiki></nowiki>

      Edit: Apparently I can. That tag makes it so that anything in between displays as normal text instead of being formatted. And since I forgot to explain the origin of my user name, it's a summon from Final Fantasy VII, who in turn is based on a Dungeons & Dragons character, who in turn is some Babylonian fish god. That D&D made into a dragon, for some reason. I don't really know what "new hebraic" means, but I know that the Israelites & the Roman Christians tended to demonize the gods of other cultures.

      I have provided tons of examples as evidence.

      Your counters are generally 1 or more of the following:

      1. "X character didn't do it," even though it's already been explained dozens of times over that X character never learned that skill.

      2. Downplaying the significance of counterexamples, such as King Bumi, & the number of techniques that can be done with little or no arm movement.

      3. Some broken analogy, like comparing waterbending to a punch. A punch, by definition, requires a fist. Bending can be done with many body parts. So it's an unfair comparison.

      Since none of these arguments logically lead to the conclusion that Ming-Hua can't waterbend herself some fake arms, they can hardly qualify as evidence. Feel free to point out if I've missed something.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      It's not a fighting move but is still bending without limbs. Yes, he may just not have trained it.

      like I said, we didn't see his legs soooo yeah. and I always thought bumi had done the head/psychic thing before since he was so comfortable getting locked up that way.

      But overcoming your disability is not about making it disappear.

      yeah but, toph still had weaknesses from her disability. ming hua seems just as good as anyone with arms. and actually has an advantage because of it. everyone else can be pretty well disabled if you disable their arms and legs, ......are you supposed to tie up ming hua's shoulders?

      I don't know if Amon did it but his father manipulated Sokka and Toph using only his mind and when he was free and went to manipulate Aang he used his hand. Of course Amon is not Yakone but i think if he is not as powerful he is at least close to it.

      ok well I thought their powers were also OP and stupid and inconsistent with ATLA. sooooo yeah.

      Yes, i do. I also didn't like Amon being a bender or the way he treated the Lieutenant after he discovered it.

      ok cool. enough on this I guess.

      If you're talking about my claim that they are not as strong individually as people say they are, Ming Hua only had 2 worthy oponnents, Kya and Mako, the first one being a healer and the other just not as strong as he was supposed to be. Ghazan's ability to lavabend is the only OP thing about him, when he went against Bolin and Mako if he was as powerful as people said he would've wiped the floor of lava with them. Zaheer was a nonbender altough he was still a very good martial artist his ability to control the others to fight eficiently as a group was what made him dangerous, after he gained airbending even if he caught the hang of it quickily he was still outmatched by Tenzin. The only thing OP about him is flying. P'li is by far the strongest of them but if you hit her head in the right point she will explode.

      well ming hua beat a number of guards pretty easily by herself. and also beat desna and eska pretty good. she seemed to be beating kya and mako. ghazan always seemed to have bolin on the ropes. and only lost to him AFTER bolin became a lavabender himself. ming hua and ghazan seemed to be pretty good at fighting without zaheer, so I don't think they needed him to be good. I think the entire Red Lotus has OP abilities. which is a shame because I actually really liked their characters and the idea of the RL.

      I think maintaining the tentacles in place and turning the tip into ice is psychic while she uses her body to move them.

      so we agree that psychic bending shouldn't do much. do you really think that ming hua can do all those moves with just her shoulders? She does some pretty damn good things. I think someone without arms should not be effective in a fight at all. unless they are really good with their legs. which is why I thought the armless character should be an earthbender, since earthbending uses legs a lot.

      Yes, we agree in that at least shouldn't be able to do much in a fight,  otherwise it would be pretty boring and my favorite thing in ATLA is the kung fu. But i still think we disagree in other things like: Katara draining water from the plants and Bumi getting free and the elements flying around Aang were psychic bending, although i think it doesn't make sense that non-avatar characters can melt earth(the only reason i could find for that being possible is Bolin's mother being a firebender and we not knowing Ghazan's parents one of them can also be a firebender) i think that lavabending itself is not unreasonable and other earthbenders should be able to bend preexisting lava, chi is not magic power it's a mix of body and soul. That's about it. I made a gigantic post about how i think bending works but i lost it because my internet is evil, too lazy to write it all again.

      I think the Bumi stuff and that stuff is irrelevant now. since we agree that you still need your body to do significant fight moves. and lets keep to lavabending stuff on the lavabending page.

      so lets mostly talk about this now. Is ming hua good at fighting? and inconsistent with ATLA?

        Loading editor
    • yeah but, toph still had weaknesses from her disability. ming hua seems just as good as anyone with arms. and actually has an advantage because of it. everyone else can be pretty well disabled if you disable their arms and legs, ......are you supposed to tie up ming hua's shoulders?

      I guess I must have imagined Ming Hua's tendrils serving as a conduit for electricity to fry her entire body. Pretty big weakness I'd say :P

        Loading editor
    • Your counters are generally 1 or more of the following:

      1. "X character didn't do it," even though it's already been explained dozens of times over that X character never learned that skill.

      2. Downplaying the significance of counterexamples, such as King Bumi, & the number of techniques that can be done with little or no arm movement.

      3. Some broken analogy, like comparing waterbending to a punch. A punch, by definition, requires a fist. Bending can be done with many body parts. So it's an unfair comparison.

      Since none of these arguments logically lead to the conclusion that Ming-Hua can't waterbend herself some fake arms, they can hardly qualify as evidence. Feel free to point out if I've missed something.

      1. I am trying to say that the skill shouldn't exist. and is never shown at all in ATLA. and that tons of characters are disabled when their limbs are disabled. even the best ones.

      2. I have shown that the non-limb examples weren't that powerful and that every character still needed their limbs to fight, even the avatar state avatar.

      3.I think the analogy is good. they DO need to do martial arts moves to do most of the fighting moves. and they even hired an actual martial artist (sifu kisu) to show the animators the moves. the point of bending was definitely that it has to mostly be done with martial arts.

      I even recall WAY back in the day you explaining how benders were different than like telekinetic characters in some other show. that they relied on their bodies to do most of their most of their bending as opposed to those other characters. which is why those characters were more powerful than avatar characters. I even remember complimenting you on your analysis. Unfortunately I cant find the post. I think it was years ago, before LOK even came out. so yeah. just saying, not trying to use this as argument since I cant find it.

        Loading editor
    • 1. Again, this has already been explained to you several times. There's a reason why most people can't read braille or navigate by hearing alone, & there's a reason why you need physical therapy to be able to use a prosthetic limb. These are special skills that require special training. Your argument is basically like saying that, because I can type at 90-something WPM, if you chopped off my right hand, I'd be able to type one-handed with no problem. And if I couldn't do it after a certain length of time, clearly it means it's impossible.

      2. No, you just say they aren't powerful, but they clearly are. Iroh can make a huge stream with his Breath of Fire. Aang can blow someone across the room. Bumi can break open a metal coffin, & don't say he just bent the nails, because even if that WERE true, you try to bend a nail & tell me how much force it takes. Also, Ming-Hua lacks arms, not all limbs. There are a number of powerful bending moves that don't require arms. Firebenders can propel themselves with jets from their feet, Airbenders can make tornadoes or air blasts just by running, they can knock you off-balance by zipping past you, or create full body air blasts by running at high speed & suddenly stopping, the waterspout & tornado moves don't require arms, etc.

      3. Well, it's not. Martial arts involves more than just punching, so "Bending requires martial arts"=/="Bending requires arms."

        Loading editor
    • Dragonboy6491 wrote:

      yeah but, toph still had weaknesses from her disability. ming hua seems just as good as anyone with arms. and actually has an advantage because of it. everyone else can be pretty well disabled if you disable their arms and legs, ......are you supposed to tie up ming hua's shoulders?

      I guess I must have imagined Ming Hua's tendrils serving as a conduit for electricity to fry her entire body. Pretty big weakness I'd say :P

      I'd say it's enough to make her underpowered. Also, the fact that she has to put more of her body into her techniques means she has to have really high stamina to be able to fight with even an average waterbender.

        Loading editor
    • Dragonboy6491 wrote:

      I guess I must have imagined Ming Hua's tendrils serving as a conduit for electricity to fry her entire body. Pretty big weakness I'd say :P

      so ONLY firebenders can exploit her weakness? this is supposed to be 4 balanced arts. not rock, paper, scissors.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: 1. Again, this has already been explained to you several times. There's a reason why most people can't read braille or navigate by hearing alone, & there's a reason why you need physical therapy to be able to use a prosthetic limb. These are special skills that require special training. Your argument is basically like saying that, because I can type at 90-something WPM, if you chopped off my right hand, I'd be able to type one-handed with no problem. And if I couldn't do it after a certain length of time, clearly it means it's impossible.

      most people cant do those things because they don't need to. those things are not nearly as efficient as what they are replacing. ever scene someone navigate with hearing? it takes them like 5 minutes to determine that a phonebooth is a phonebooth. where as someone with eyes can do it in less than a second. these people are still handicapped.

      2. No, you just say they aren't powerful, but they clearly are. Iroh can make a huge stream with his Breath of Fire. Aang can blow someone across the room. Bumi can break open a metal coffin, & don't say he just bent the nails, because even if that WERE true, you try to bend a nail & tell me how much force it takes. Also, Ming-Hua lacks arms, not all limbs. There are a number of powerful bending moves that don't require arms. Firebenders can propel themselves with jets from their feet, Airbenders can make tornadoes or air blasts just by running, they can knock you off-balance by zipping past you, or create full body air blasts by running at high speed & suddenly stopping, the waterspout & tornado moves don't require arms, etc.

      did I say powerful? I meant skilled and generally good at fighting. iroh, aang, bumi still need their limbs to fight. they cant fight with their mouths/faces. and maybe i'd feel better about ming hua if she actually used her legs but, she doesn't. but, that would still bother me a little bit because waterbending was show to hardly use legs in its moves. like I said, the armless character should've been an earthbender who was good with his legs.

      3. Well, it's not. Martial arts involves more than just punching, so "Bending requires martial arts"=/="Bending requires arms."

      punching, hitting, pushing, kicking, grabbing, etc. mostly all done with the limbs. are you saying the point of bending wasn't supposed to be that it was mostly done with martial arts moves? then why did they take the time make the characters do tons of martial arts moves?

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      I'd say it's enough to make her underpowered. Also, the fact that she has to put more of her body into her techniques means she has to have really high stamina to be able to fight with even an average waterbender.

      then her stamina is massively OP then because she does a hell of a lot.

        Loading editor
    • I see your point but I think you worded it wrong lol I do agree with you Korra was ruined with a lot of characters having special bending abilities like Amon. I didn't understand where psychic bloodbending came from. In A:TLA, some characters like Combustion Man had special sub bending powers. In Korra, I don't get how everyone had developed special abilities.

      Characters who have no limbs like Ming-Hua are different. She can still waterbend with her legs probably to kick or whatever. She uses waterbending in place of her arms to rise above her disability to say. You think of her like Toph. Toph was blind and learned to get around bending and well... life.

        Loading editor
    • Fanbend wrote:

      Characters who have no limbs like Ming-Hua are different. She can still waterbend with her legs probably to kick or whatever. She uses waterbending in place of her arms to rise above her disability to say. You think of her like Toph. Toph was blind and learned to get around bending and well... life.

      ....but she DOESNT use her legs. toph couldn't see. it was never shown that you need eyes to actually bend. and she still has weaknesses.

        Loading editor
    • She does use her legs.  As people have pointed out time and time again, she essentially uses her entire damn body.  But yet, you continue to harp on arms.

        Loading editor
    • I watched her fight scenes again on youtube. she hardly uses her legs.

        Loading editor
    • most people cant do those things because they don't need to. those things are not nearly as efficient as what they are replacing

      In other words, they have no need to learn it. Welcome to the point. Anyone who has access to their arms is going to use them in a fight, that's just common sense. Even if they learned Ming-Hua's technique, it wouldn't do them much good, because they can't move their shoulders independently of their arms.

      punching, hitting, pushing, kicking, grabbing, etc. mostly all done with the limbs.

      The claim that you require arms to do any kind of bending is objectively wrong. That is the point.

      are you saying the point of bending wasn't supposed to be that it was mostly done with martial arts moves

      ...No, what? What I said is that martial arts is not defined solely by punching things.

      I watched her fight scenes again on youtube. she hardly uses her legs.

      I can hardly tell what's going on in those scenes, so it would be interesting to see what someone else has to say.

        Loading editor
    • Wow so many answers. Looks like you guys like to post when i'm not around.

      like I said, we didn't see his legs soooo yeah. and I always thought bumi had done the head/psychic thing before since he was so comfortable getting locked up that way.

      But we see him incline his body and move foward. And he didn't look too comfortable, he was clearly putting a lot of effort in that.

      yeah but, toph still had weaknesses from her disability. ming hua seems just as good as anyone with arms. and actually has an advantage because of it. everyone else can be pretty well disabled if you disable their arms and legs, ......are you supposed to tie up ming hua's shoulders?

      What advantage? She can do something any waterbender can do(water whip) but she need to put a lot more effort in it because she doesn't have arms. Her bending is also pretty much limited to striking people with her tentacles, and as good that is she can't use it to win against any really strong opponent like the ones i cited before.

      well ming hua beat a number of guards pretty easily by herself. and also beat desna and eska pretty good. she seemed to be beating kya and mako. ghazan always seemed to have bolin on the ropes. and only lost to him AFTER bolin became a lavabender himself. ming hua and ghazan seemed to be pretty good at fighting without zaheer, so I don't think they needed him to be good. I think the entire Red Lotus has OP abilities. which is a shame because I actually really liked their characters and the idea of the RL.

      There's only one thing you can learn from bending in LoK and ATLA: if you are a trained soldier your chances of being good at bending/fighting are zero and you will always lose to pre-teen kids. Mako and Bolin aren't really strong, as most of the characters in LoK if compared to ATLA, but yes Ming Hua and Ghazan were at least maintaining them in check until Mako had the idea of shooting lightining at her and went to help Bolin. The reason they are not as strong as they were supposed to be is probably spending 13 years locked in a cubicle without any training or bending possibilities. Only Zaheer left his prison stronger.

      so lets mostly talk about this now. Is ming hua good at fighting? and inconsistent with ATLA?

      Yes, she is. Her fighting style have advantages and disadvantages, and i don't think it's inconsistent with ATLA or i wouldn't even be dabating here.

      And since I forgot to explain the origin of my user name, it's a summon from Final Fantasy VII, who in turn is based on a Dungeons & Dragons character, who in turn is some Babylonian fish god. That D&D made into a dragon, for some reason. I don't really know what "new hebraic" means, but I know that the Israelites & the Roman Christians tended to demonize the gods of other cultures.

      It's just that looks like Behemoth, Belphegor, Baphomet, etc. And Neo = new, Bahamut = hebraic demon.

      punching, hitting, pushing, kicking, grabbing, etc. mostly all done with the limbs. are you saying the point of bending wasn't supposed to be that it was mostly done with martial arts moves? then why did they take the time make the characters do tons of martial arts moves?

      Just wanted to say that she uses her tentacles to "punch" and grab people like one would do with normal arms. She doesn't bend like other waterbenders.

      then her stamina is massively OP then because she does a hell of a lot.

      I have seen better.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      In other words, they have no need to learn it. Welcome to the point. Anyone who has access to their arms is going to use them in a fight, that's just common sense. Even if they learned Ming-Hua's technique, it wouldn't do them much good, because they can't move their shoulders independently of their arms.

      but, the point is those things that people learn are nowhere near as good as the actual thing. i don't know about you but, i can move my shoulders independently of my arms. losing arms doesn't give your shoulders any more range of motion. it would be very advantageous to be able to bend with just your shoulders, if your arms and every trapped or broken.

      The claim that you require arms to do any kind of bending is objectively wrong. That is the point.

      i never made that claim. i said you need your limbs (arms and/or legs) to do the majority of most fighting bending moves.

      ...No, what? What I said is that martial arts is not defined solely by punching things.

      oh, well yeah. punching is just an example.

      I can hardly tell what's going on in those scenes, so it would be interesting to see what someone else has to say.

      the majority of movement seems to be from her water arms.

      i hardly see her using her legs to bend.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      But we see him incline his body and move foward. And he didn't look too comfortable, he was clearly putting a lot of effort in that.

      yeah but we don't see his legs. he very well could've moved them. just because it takes a lot of effort doesn't mean he hasn't done it before. some things are just always difficult, no matter how many times you do them.

      What advantage? She can do something any waterbender can do(water whip) but she need to put a lot more effort in it because she doesn't have arms. Her bending is also pretty much limited to striking people with her tentacles, and as good that is she can't use it to win against any really strong opponent like the ones i cited before.

      her advantage is that it is much harder to like trap or cripple her. with everyone else you can trap or cripple their arms and legs and they cant do much. her tentacles are shown to be pretty versatile. she can create many of them. and they can get really long and do a lot of things. she also wins almost every fight she is in. and her tentacles seem to be REALLY good at grabbing things. i mean, i know water could grab stuff in ATLA but, no one could swing around like tarzan like she can.

      There's only one thing you can learn from bending in LoK and ATLA: if you are a trained soldier your chances of being good at bending/fighting are zero and you will always lose to pre-teen kids. Mako and Bolin aren't really strong, as most of the characters in LoK if compared to ATLA, but yes Ming Hua and Ghazan were at least maintaining them in check until Mako had the idea of shooting lightining at her and went to help Bolin. The reason they are not as strong as they were supposed to be is probably spending 13 years locked in a cubicle without any training or bending possibilities. Only Zaheer left his prison stronger.

      yeah, that is one thing that bothered me about ATLA. a lot of the actual soldiers weren't that good. ming hua and ghazan beat mako and bolin pretty easy the first time. and are you saying ghazan and ming hua actually should've been BETTER then they were in the show?

      Yes, she is. Her fighting style have advantages and disadvantages, and i don't think it's inconsistent with ATLA or i wouldn't even be dabating here.

      ok, so since we agree that psychic bending shouldn't be able to do much. you think she is that good from mostly her shoulders? when it ATLA it is shown that you need your limbs to be good? and no one can fight without them?

      Just wanted to say that she uses her tentacles to "punch" and grab people like one would do with normal arms. She doesn't bend like other waterbenders.

      yes but, they aren't her arms. she is bending the water. is she that good with her shoulders?

      I have seen better.

      if her technique requires more stamina, she should be getting tired before everyone else. but, she doesn't.

        Loading editor
    • but, the point is those things that people learn are nowhere near as good as the actual thing. i don't know about you but, i can move my shoulders independently of my arms. losing arms doesn't give your shoulders any more range of motion. it would be very advantageous to be able to bend with just your shoulders, if your arms and every trapped or broken.

      Unless you can freely pop your shoulder out of your socket, no, you just did something wrong. And even if you could do that, most people can't, so it's a moot point.

      Here's a good test I just discovered by accident: If you stand upright, with your feet flat on the ground, your palms flat on a table, & your arms fully extended, then try to lift your shoulders without moving your hands or feet or leaning at all, you'll get maybe a few millimeters of movement.

      i never made that claim. i said you need your limbs

      So the route you're going is to claim that she doesn't use her legs, but that's wrong, because she uses her legs to rotate, jump, etc., which in turn moves the water whips. As mentioned previously, a number of techniques can be performed just by running or spinning around. And that's without factoring in the movement of her shoulders.

        Loading editor
    • and are you saying ghazan and ming hua actually should've been BETTER then they were in the show?

      No, because they were 13 years in a prison doing nothing. I'm saying they aren't as strong as people say they are.

      ok, so since we agree that psychic bending shouldn't be able to do much. you think she is that good from mostly her shoulders? when it ATLA it is shown that you need your limbs to be good? and no one can fight without them?

      Her whole body, not just the shoulders. When she fights she turns her whole body(at least her upper body) to attack.

      if her technique requires more stamina, she should be getting tired before everyone else. but, she doesn't.

      There are people who can do better. But considering that she was locked for 13 years you should be right.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Unless you can freely pop your shoulder out of your socket, no, you just did something wrong. And even if you could do that, most people can't, so it's a moot point.

      no, I mean I can move my shoulders just as much as someone without arms can. losing your arms doesn't mean you can move your shoulders more.

      So the route you're going is to claim that she doesn't use her legs, but that's wrong, because she uses her legs to rotate, jump, etc., which in turn moves the water whips. As mentioned previously, a number of techniques can be performed just by running or spinning around. And that's without factoring in the movement of her shoulders.

      she doesn't use her legs to do the fighting moves. I remember her using the whips a lot without spinning.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      No, because they were 13 years in a prison doing nothing. I'm saying they aren't as strong as people say they are.

      but, you are saying that if that hadn't been locked up....they'd be even better than they were?

      Her whole body, not just the shoulders. When she fights she turns her whole body(at least her upper body) to attack.

      but, she doesn't always. and to move your arms to do a lot of the bending moves you need to move a lot of your body anyway. so shouldn't not having the arms make those specific moves impossible? or at least very weak?

      There are people who can do better. But considering that she was locked for 13 years you should be right.

      my point is that then we must also accept that she has freakishly good stamina. but yeah, she sat there for 13 years, shouldn't be in the best of shape.

      and just curious...when was the last time you watched ATLA (in its entirety)? and how many times have you watched it (in entirety)?

        Loading editor
    • I don't see why you take an issue with Ming-Hua bending when you can easily discount Bumi's bending with his face or Combustion Man firing a beam from his tattoo or even Aang making an air sphere. Not one of those instances did the bender use their limbs to perform bending. And then we get into your "martial arts" parallels. Fine. You can make the case for Bumi doing a head butt ... so what's Combustion Man doing? Staring people down is a new martial arts form now? How about Aang at the Southern Air Temple? I guess just standing there is a martial arts form too?

        Loading editor
    • I do think they were stronger before the imprisonment, as you say at the end of your post being there for 13 years counting stars and inventing stories they weren't in their best shape.

      Their bending moves are different than Ming Hua's, she's using the water to punch/grab people so she moves as much as it is needed to punch people.

      I watched ATLA in July last year and right after that i watched LoK, although i don't remembers much from LoK probably because i didn't like it much.

        Loading editor
    • Ming Hua uses psychic water bending so she doesn't have to move much.

        Loading editor
    • Dragonboy6491 wrote: I don't see why you take an issue with Ming-Hua bending when you can easily discount Bumi's bending with his face or Combustion Man firing a beam from his tattoo or even Aang making an air sphere. Not one of those instances did the bender use their limbs to perform bending. And then we get into your "martial arts" parallels. Fine. You can make the case for Bumi doing a head butt ... so what's Combustion Man doing? Staring people down is a new martial arts form now? How about Aang at the Southern Air Temple? I guess just standing there is a martial arts form too?

      because bumi, aang, etc. aren't doing any fancy moves without their limbs. they aren't doing any fighting moves. they still require their limbs to fight, and when their limbs are trapped/broken/etc. they cant do much. i know some bending can be done without limbs but, you still need them to do the majority of fighting moves. even when aang made the elements float around him without moving, he STILL needed to use his limbs to shoot the elements at ozai. combustion man also cant do anything fancy, just powerful. but all he can do is shoot in a straight line. and if you hit him their he is incapacitated. he has a weakness. ming hua does not.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      Their bending moves are different than Ming Hua's, she's using the water to punch/grab people so she moves as much as it is needed to punch people.

      but, you think she is moving her water arms with just her shoulders (when she isn't spinning)?

      so you think that without arms you can do "different" but, just as effective moves? why ever move your arms? and i say effective because she beats a lot of people and zuko even said something like "by themselves each of these 4 can take any bender so together they will be near unstoppable" or something.

      let me just ask you this.....do you think not having arms should cripple someone? do you think ming hua would be EVEN better with arms?

        Loading editor
    • but, you think she is moving her water arms with just her shoulders (when she isn't spinning)?

      Okay, could you give me an example? In all the three videos i could find in youtube of her fighting she is pretty much spining all the time.

      so you think that without arms you can do "different" but, just as effective moves? why ever move your arms?

      She trained this skill all her life. And for a bender with arms it's more efficient if you just use your arms.

      and i say effective because she beats a lot of people and zuko even said something like "by themselves each of these 4 can take any bender so together they will be near unstoppable" or something

      Zuko did say that, but they still needed to be 3x1 against Tenzin.

      let me just ask you this.....do you think not having arms should cripple someone? do you think ming hua would be EVEN better with arms?

      In the real world? Yes. In a cartoon? No, they have these characters exactly to show kids that people without arms or blind can do the same thing a normal person can, and be even better at it. Her and Toph used their weakness and got stronger thanks to them. The real world doesn't work like that, but are they supposed to show a woman without arms that can't fight being beaten by the heroes?

        Loading editor
    • no, I mean I can move my shoulders just as much as someone without arms can. losing your arms doesn't mean you can move your shoulders more.

      I don't know what you're even trying to argue against at this point.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      Okay, could you give me an example? In all the three videos i could find in youtube of her fighting she is pretty much spining all the time.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwolL2uVYnw she just moves her water arm at the guard of pli's cell. and I don't even know how she freezes desna and eska. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwolL2uVYnw when she escapes she just opens the door by moving her water arm. and when she gets up on the platform she just turns to grab those guards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1hosla-S_g when bolin is underwater she sways back and forth to bend the water in the pool. and bends him out of the water WITH water!

      she DOES spin a lot though. but, do you think it is fair that she can tons of good fighting moves by spinning around? when everyone else needs their arms? we've agreed you can do some minor things without the limbs as shown in ATLA. but everyone still needs their limbs to fight. even the avatar....is she more powerful than the avatar?

      She trained this skill all her life. And for a bender with arms it's more efficient if you just use your arms.

      so it is more efficient to use your arms? shouldn't that mean benders with arms should be better?

      Zuko did say that, but they still needed to be 3x1 against Tenzin.

      ok but, people aren't used to fighting airbenders. I actually thought that was a good explanation for why tenzins kids could beat the chi blockers that defeated so many other benders. but anyway, the point is that she is pretty damn good.

      In the real world? Yes. In a cartoon? No, they have these characters exactly to show kids that people without arms or blind can do the same thing a normal person can, and be even better at it. Her and Toph used their weakness and got stronger thanks to them. The real world doesn't work like that, but are they supposed to show a woman without arms that can't fight being beaten by the heroes?

      but, toph still had weaknesses because of her disability. ming hua really doesnt. toph didn't really use her weakness to get stronger. it just made her discover how to use an already established ability. it was already established that earthbenders could vibrate the ground. it was never established that you could do much without arms. and was heavily implied otherwise. they are always trying to trap each others limbs in fights. "these deadly hands must be crushed" "without my arms, I got no bending" "they tied up our arms and legs so we couldn't bend" there are TONS of scenes. where people are disabled because their arms and/or legs are. when ty lee first chi blocked katara, she only hit her arms and katara couldn't bend. toph didn't contradict anything shown previously. it was never shown that you needed working eyes to bend. (although there ARE a lot of inconsistencies with Toph, many of them minor, but they are there).

      they just shouldn't have had a no armed person fighting in the first place. ....then they wouldn't be getting beaten by the heroes. if they must have had one, it should've been an earthbender who was really good with their legs.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      no, I mean I can move my shoulders just as much as someone without arms can. losing your arms doesn't mean you can move your shoulders more.

      I don't know what you're even trying to argue against at this point.


      I am saying everyone is already always moving their shoulders to bend anyway (along with their arms). and that they all need their arms to fight. so JUST shoulders shouldn't do much.

        Loading editor
    • ... I think you just can't accept that Ming-Hua is a creative bender.

      ... JUST shoulders shouldn't do much.

      Instinct is a lie ... told by a fearful body ... hoping to be wrong ;)

        Loading editor
    • but, toph still had weaknesses because of her disability. ming hua really doesnt. toph didn't really use her weakness to get stronger. it just made her discover how to use an already established ability.

      Yes she does if she runs out of water she's defenseless and her water arms lead straight to her heart so lightning is a one shot kill basically. I'm pretty sure she is a psychic water bending like how Amon and Yakone were psychic blood benders. Yakone managed to blood bend a whole court room with out moving a limb.

        Loading editor
    • she just moves her water arm at the guard of pli's cell.

      No, she moves like someone trowing a punch. She makes a little turn with her body.

      when bolin is underwater she sways back and forth to bend the water in the pool. and bends him out of the water WITH water!

      You mean when she's moving her whole body in a Tai Chi form?

      so it is more efficient to use your arms? shouldn't that mean benders with arms should be better?

      There are other things to be considered besides efficiency, like amount of talent you are born with and training.

      ok but, people aren't used to fighting airbenders.

      Azula didn't have this problem. For a good fighter airbending won't make much of a difference.

      but, toph still had weaknesses because of her disability. ming hua really doesnt. toph didn't really use her weakness to get stronger. it just made her discover how to use an already established ability

      But she only could discover it because of her blindness. Until she taught Aang and other earthbenders how to do it, she was the only one able to do that in thousands of years. She wasn't going to be the greatest earthbender if she didn't dicover this ability wich she did because she was blind.

      "these deadly hands must be crushed"

      Haha, Iroh. You have to admit that crushing his arms was actually stupid since when he escaped from them he didn't use them to bend.

      they just shouldn't have had a no armed person fighting in the first place. ....then they wouldn't be getting beaten by the heroes. if they must have had one, it should've been an earthbender who was really good with their legs.

      I think a waterbender is better. Toph used her arms a lot and they use legs more for taking big rocks of the ground. If they were to kick it without arms they would have pratically no balance, and that is the basis of earthbending.

      I am saying everyone is already always moving their shoulders to bend anyway (along with their arms). and that they all need their arms to fight. so JUST shoulders shouldn't do much.

      Aside from hitting people with tentacles she didn't show much. That was basically the only thing she did, aside from using water to move around and making Bolin into a water bubble moving her whole body.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:

      Yes she does if she runs out of water she's defenseless and her water arms lead straight to her heart so lightning is a one shot kill basically. I'm pretty sure she is a psychic water bending like how Amon and Yakone were psychic blood benders. Yakone managed to blood bend a whole court room with out moving a limb.

      -_____- if ANY water or earthbender doesn't have their element it is a weakness. she has no weakness because of her disability. lightning can only be used by firebenders, so she has no weakness against the other 3 types of bending. also, why did the lightning kill her when it didn't hurt amon etc that bad? inconsistency within an inconsistency? I also think amon and yakone are stupid so yeah.

        Loading editor
    • Mako was under a lot of pain being bloodbended by Amon, so it could have affected the power of his lightning(tha was never all that to begin with). And Ming Hua was in water and that seems to make the lightning stronger i guess.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: No, she moves like someone trowing a punch. She makes a little turn with her body.

      ok, so if everyone else need's their arms do a move like that. (you are also turning your body a little when punch). then isn't inconsistent that she can do it without arms?

      You mean when she's moving her whole body in a Tai Chi form?

      everyone is always moving their body AND their limbs. so revoming the limbs should be limiting.

      Azula didn't have this problem. For a good fighter airbending won't make much of a difference.

      well aang is pretty much the only one who azula fought and didn't defeat easily. at least before she went crazy.

      But she only could discover it because of her blindness. Until she taught Aang and other earthbenders how to do it, she was the only one able to do that in thousands of years. She wasn't going to be the greatest earthbender if she didn't dicover this ability wich she did because she was blind.

      but, the ability already existed. some COULD discover it without being blind. it is kind of implied that bumi knew it, right? to be fair I DO think toph was overdone somewhat. her abilities anyway, I love her character. but she STILL had weaknesses. and it was never shown that you needed your eyes to bend. people never couldn't bend because they couldn't see. everyone was shown being crippled when their arms were crippled.

      Haha, Iroh. You have to admit that crushing his arms was actually stupid since when he escaped from them he didn't use them to bend.

      wait what? how was that stupid at all? it zuko hadn't shown up, they would've crushed his arms and he wouldn't have been able to firebend with them. who knows, maybe they were going to crush his legs next too. then all he could've done was shoot fire out of his mouth.

      I think a waterbender is better. Toph used her arms a lot and they use legs more for taking big rocks of the ground. If they were to kick it without arms they would have pratically no balance, and that is the basis of earthbending.

      they DO kick quite a few rocks. and use their legs to create mounds. but, whatever this discussion is kind of pointless because we disagree about what you can do without limbs.

      Aside from hitting people with tentacles she didn't show much. That was basically the only thing she did, aside from using water to move around and making Bolin into a water bubble moving her whole body.

      but, she was so damn good with her tentacles. they could be huge and she could create like a ton of them. and she used them to swing around a ton.

      here are the points that remain

      1. Despite the fact that some people could do some bending without their limbs, everyone (even all the greatest masters and the avatar) are shown to need their limbs to fight.

      2. they are always shown trying to trap/break/etc. their opponent's limbs and when they are trapped/broken/chi blocked , they cannot fight.

      3. when training with fighting moves, they are shown trying to get the moves right with their whole bodies (including the limbs). katara with the scroll and training aang. iroh teaching zuko lightning redirection. the dancing dragon etc.

        Loading editor
    • but, the ability already existed. some COULD discover it without being blind.

      Aside from Oma and Shu i think only Tph did.

      it is kind of implied that bumi knew it, right?

      I can't remember anything like that.

      whatever this discussion is kind of pointless because we disagree about what you can do without limbs.

      Isn't that the point of a debate?

      1. Despite the fact that some people could do some bending without their limbs, everyone (even all the greatest masters and the avatar) are shown to need their limbs to fight.

      She was the only character show to have no arms. Tell me why a bender with his arms would train all his life(like she did) to bend without arms?

      3. when training with fighting moves, they are shown trying to get the moves right with their whole bodies (including the limbs). katara with the scroll and training aang. iroh teaching zuko lightning redirection. the dancing dragon etc.

      Because they were made by people with arms and they didn't think someone without them would try it?

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Mako was under a lot of pain being bloodbended by Amon, so it could have affected the power of his lightning(tha was never all that to begin with). And Ming Hua was in water and that seems to make the lightning stronger i guess.

      well even if that is true, the point still remains that only firebenders can exploit her weakness.

      and it also takes ANOTHER inconsistent ability (that we both agreed on) to do so.

      I've heard people say "well if everything is OP why does it matter". because its still inconsistent. creating new OP powers and then combating them with other new OP powers is still bad inconsistent writing.

        Loading editor
    • So I haven't been able to read all of this because it's a pretty long post, but I did read a good amount and here's my two cents.

      The bending disciplines are methods of maniupulating and directing one's chi, correct? Well I believe whenever a bender holds their element (i.e. fire stream, water whip, levitating a boulder, air scooter), it is a constant extension of their chi; meaning, their chi extends into their element and it's how they are able to maintain it. That's why JeongJeong's abilities to create walls (that didn't spread btw) made him such a great master; not only could he hold his energy, as a firebender he could prevent it from dissipating. How does this relate to Ming Hua?

      Well I imagine that when she was learning how to water bend, she could use her spine, head, shoulderblades, hips, etc. to bend small amounts of water and eventually gained the ability to bend a respectable amount to serve as arms. These arms, I believe, maintain her chi and using this, she is able to use them as replacement arms. That's why we don't see her bend a wave or create ice walls (correct me if I'm wrong here), because to do that, she would have to extend her chi even further, with moves that may be too advanced without normal arms. 

      I think this is supported when Aang turned into a giant spirit fish made of water. Being in the avatar state plus assistance from the moon spirit (and having arms) allowed him to do what Ming Hua couldn't: bend the elements past an already bent(?) extension of himself. 

      What do you guys think?

        Loading editor
    • Well she does a water something she rides on her fight against Kya and she also freezes Eska and Desna.

      I believe they are channeling their chi with the movements and they are able to bend with that, so this makes sense.

      But Aang's case when he was with the ocean(not the moon) spirit was a different thing. I think he was used as a vessel of power by the spirit.

        Loading editor
    • I believe that's why he said "more difficult," not "impossible." Or something to that effect.

      You can count on 1 hand the amount of times that Ming-Hua uses a move that isn't a variation of her water arms. She can clearly do other things, but she's very reliant on that move.

      And no, she probably wasn't using her water arms to actually create that sphere around Bolin, but if she didn't raise them, then it would look like she was just doing it by staring.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      Aside from Oma and Shu i think only Tph did.

      well, isn't that how all the badger moles get around? if you want to count them. and I think it is safe to assume that in the thousands of years of history someone else may have discovered it. I say the same thing about metalbending and bloodbending.

      I can't remember anything like that.

      well he is the one who told aang that he needed to find a teacher like toph. also, when he is taking back omashu he doesn't a move on guys behind him without looking, so yeah. make of that what you will.

      Isn't that the point of a debate?

      I think I was talking about something specific....I cant find it for some reason!

      She was the only character show to have no arms. Tell me why a bender with his arms would train all his life(like she did) to bend without arms?

      yes, but everyone is shown to be able to not do much when their arms/legs are immobilized. and someone would train for it.....in case their arms or legs are immobilized! which happens a lot in the series. e.g. if katara had been able to do it, it wouldn't have mattered when ty lee just chi blocked her arms.

      Because they were made by people with arms and they didn't think someone without them would try it?

      but, like it said it would be very useful to not have to use your arms. any master should learn it if it exists. and who taught ming hua then? nobody was every really shown to have trained themselves. and while I DO think some of the characters mastered the elements to quickly and at too young of an age, they all still needed training, even the avatar.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      Thebridge14 wrote:

      Yes she does if she runs out of water she's defenseless and her water arms lead straight to her heart so lightning is a one shot kill basically. I'm pretty sure she is a psychic water bending like how Amon and Yakone were psychic blood benders. Yakone managed to blood bend a whole court room with out moving a limb.

      -_____- if ANY water or earthbender doesn't have their element it is a weakness. she has no weakness because of her disability. lightning can only be used by firebenders, so she has no weakness against the other 3 types of bending. also, why did the lightning kill her when it didn't hurt amon etc that bad? inconsistency within an inconsistency? I also think amon and yakone are stupid so yeah.

      No I mean if she has no water she's off balance and can fall easily like when mako evaporated her arms she nearly fell down. The reason the lightning killed her was her water arms lead straight to the heart plus she was in a puddle of water so it's a toaster effect

        Loading editor
    • well, isn't that how all the badger moles get around? if you want to count them. and I think it is safe to assume that in the thousands of years of history someone else may have discovered it. I say the same thing about metalbending and bloodbending.

      But that's just an assumption.

      well he is the one who told aang that he needed to find a teacher like toph. also, when he is taking back omashu he doesn't a move on guys behind him without looking, so yeah. make of that what you will.

      This show no signs he was able to do it.

      yes, but everyone is shown to be able to not do much when their arms/legs are immobilized. and someone would train for it.....in case their arms or legs are immobilized! which happens a lot in the series. e.g. if katara had been able to do it, it wouldn't have mattered when ty lee just chi blocked her arms.

      But she didn't train this with this thinking, she spent her life trining this sole skill. That's why she can do it and is so good at it.

      but, like it said it would be very useful to not have to use your arms. any master should learn it if it exists. and who taught ming hua then? nobody was every really shown to have trained themselves. and while I DO think some of the characters mastered the elements to quickly and at too young of an age, they all still needed training, even the avatar.

      Dunno, she could have learned from someone and perfected it or be self-taught.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      She was the only character show to have no arms. Tell me why a bender with his arms would train all his life(like she did) to bend without arms?

      yes, but everyone is shown to be able to not do much when their arms/legs are immobilized. and someone would train for it.....in case their arms or legs are immobilized! which happens a lot in the series. e.g. if katara had been able to do it, it wouldn't have mattered when ty lee just chi blocked her arms.

      Well Ty Lee's chi blocking is a different situation, no chi=no bending. I bet if Katara spent time really focusing then it would happen. 

      But further supporting my idea, check out this video of Korra and Zaheer's fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL2H8Xx2nJ8

      Notice how Tonraq uses the form starting from his hands, and they are completely independent from the rest of his arms. I think this is a form that wouldn't require Ming Hua to have arms, so I think she just picked the one form to elaborate on and master due to her disability.

        Loading editor
    • Wow, didn't remember that.

      Although he's using his arms it really looks like Ming Hua techniques and also strengthen my point of not needing any movement to turn water into ice.

      She could have learned this technique from someone and perfected it due to the fact that she have no arms.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: But that's just an assumption.

      wait, what is the purpose of discussing this again? the point is that toph didn't do anything that wasn't possible before. she just used it in a new way. earthbenders could always vibrate the ground with their feet. benders in general were always shown to need their limbs to fight.

      This show no signs he was able to do it.

      well how would know about it then?

      But she didn't train this with this thinking, she spent her life trining this sole skill. That's why she can do it and is so good at it.

      you are ignoring my point that it would be very useful for everyone to be able to do it, even people with arms.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Wow, didn't remember that.

      Although he's using his arms it really looks like Ming Hua techniques and also strengthen my point of not needing any movement to turn water into ice.

      I agree that you don't need much, if any, movement to turn liquid into ice. but you need it to move it around.

        Loading editor
    • sfsgabfbafaddcdadvdf sorry my internet connection sucks.

        Loading editor
    • LactoseFairy
      LactoseFairy removed this reply because:
      AvatarNate wrote a few posts consecutively, I replied to quickly
      03:14, January 23, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • LactoseFairy wrote: hey, what about what I said and pointed out? How the specific form that Ming Hua uses compares to how Tonraq uses it and the whole chi extension thing. 

      can you point to a specific point in the video?

      also, I my point is that LOK in general is inconsistent with ATLA. not that ming hua is inconsistent with LOK.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:

      LactoseFairy wrote: hey, what about what I said and pointed out? How the specific form that Ming Hua uses compares to how Tonraq uses it and the whole chi extension thing. 

      can you point to a specific point in the video?

      also, I my point is that LOK in general is inconsistent with ATLA. not that ming hua is inconsistent with LOK.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL2H8Xx2nJ8

      So i was pointing out that since it starts at his hands, Ming Hua's understandably starts at her nubs. 

      as for LOK and ATLA, I kinda have to agree, but its not enough to bother me to be honest, I love LOK and most of the new stuff I think is fine. The only issue I have is the difference in the spirits but whatever. 

        Loading editor
    • wait, what is the purpose of discussing this again? the point is that toph didn't do anything that wasn't possible before. she just used it in a new way

      Just like Ming Hua.

      well how would know about it then?

      He only told Aang to search for a teacher who is patient and waited and listened before attacking. He was waiting for the right time to attack so he couldn't train Aang. He just told him to find a teacher that know the right time to attack not a teacher that could see trough the vibrations in the ground.

      you are ignoring my point that it would be very useful for everyone to be able to do it, even people with arms.

      If they are only training thinking of losing the use of their arms they should as well train how to brush their teeth with their foot, or how to walk without being able to see just in case they lose their ability to see. Even in martial arts where you train thing like fighting with your hands behind your back or blindfolded, these things are very little trained because it takes up time they can use better training with their hands because, guess what, they have them. You said Bumi trained that move he used to escape right? I said he hardly trained it because of the effort he needs to put on it, and it makes sense. He would either be busy with king stuff or training normal bending. Ming Hua only trained bending without arms. When they trained bending without arms(if they did, and it would be very little) she also trained bending without arms, when they trained normal bending she was still training bending without her arms.

      I agree that you don't need much, if any, movement to turn liquid into ice. but you need it to move it around.

      And she moves a lot.

        Loading editor
    • also, I my point is that LOK in general is inconsistent with ATLA. not that ming hua is inconsistent with LOK.

      Unless you claim that Tonraq move is inconsistent with ATLA, his point is a valid one.

        Loading editor
    • LactoseFairy wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL2H8Xx2nJ8

      So i was pointing out that since it starts at his hands, Ming Hua's understandably starts at her nubs. 

      as for LOK and ATLA, I kinda have to agree, but its not enough to bother me to be honest, I love LOK and most of the new stuff I think is fine. The only issue I have is the difference in the spirits but whatever. 

      ok. but he is still using his arms etc. to move it around. I don't see how that is inconsistent. katara did a lot of stuff like that.

      well, I'm glad you at least kinda agree with me, even if you disagree about whether that is "good" or "bad". personally I like consistency. and honestly, all this bending stuff aside. the difference in the spirits was enough to ruin LOK for me. I wasn't even going to watch season 3.....but, then I saw zuko in the trailer and I had to see old zuko.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Just like Ming Hua.

      no, ming hua fought without limbs. which was never shown to be possible. vibrating the ground wasn't a new thing. and neither was feeling vibrations. no one just ever used that as means of perception.

      He only told Aang to search for a teacher who is patient and waited and listened before attacking. He was waiting for the right time to attack so he couldn't train Aang. He just told him to find a teacher that know the right time to attack not a teacher that could see trough the vibrations in the ground.

      fair enough. but, bumi often speaks in riddles and stuff, trying to make you think differently. and also when he did a move on those guys behind him that might indicate that he could do it. i'm not saying he definitely does it but, it just seems like a possibility.

      If they are only training thinking of losing the use of their arms they should as well train how to brush their teeth with their foot, or how to walk without being able to see just in case they lose their ability to see. Even in martial arts where you train thing like fighting with your hands behind your back or blindfolded, these things are very little trained because it takes up time they can use better training with their hands because, guess what, they have them. You said Bumi trained that move he used to escape right? I said he hardly trained it because of the effort he needs to put on it, and it makes sense. He would either be busy with king stuff or training normal bending. Ming Hua only trained bending without arms. When they trained bending without arms(if they did, and it would be very little) she also trained bending without arms, when they trained normal bending she was still training bending without her arms.

      unlike those other things, losing movement of your arms is VERY likely in a fight. it happens to like every character in the series. they are always targeting each other's limbs. it fighting well without limbs was a possibility, everyone would want to learn it, it would be a HUGE advantage in a fight.

      And she moves a lot.

      -_____- you know I limb movement!

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Unless you claim that Tonraq move is inconsistent with ATLA, his point is a valid one.

      I don't see how, he was using his limbs to do it.

        Loading editor
    • ok. but he is still using his arms etc. to move it around. I don't see how that is inconsistent. katara did a lot of stuff like that.

      You didn't say anything about the chi extending trough his arms. The chi path goes trough the whole arm the fact that his tentacles start at his hand is due to him having a whole arm. Ming Hua's arms end at her shoulder, wich are also in the chi path.

      no, ming hua fought without limbs. which was never shown to be possible. vibrating the ground wasn't a new thing. and neither was feeling vibrations. no one just ever used that as means of perception.

      She did something tha was possible to do(as seen by Tonraq) in a different way. Pretty much the same.

      fair enough. but, bumi often speaks in riddles and stuff, trying to make you think differently. and also when he did a move on those guys behind him that might indicate that he could do it. i'm not saying he definitely does it but, it just seems like a possibility.

      The he should've discovered metalbending before.

      unlike those other things, losing movement of your arms is VERY likely in a fight. it happens to like every character in the series. they are always targeting each other's limbs. it fighting well without limbs was a possibility, everyone would want to learn it, it would be a HUGE advantage in a fight.

      But they couldn't train this skill like she does.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: You didn't say anything about the chi extending trough his arms. The chi path goes trough the whole arm the fact that his tentacles start at his hand is due to him having a whole arm. Ming Hua's arms end at her shoulder, wich are also in the chi path.

      .....o k but, we are talking about doing moves with bending...I think you need arms/legs to fight. you do not. I don't see how this is relevant.

      she did something tha was possible to do(as seen by Tonraq) in a different way. Pretty much the same.

      but, tonraq used his arms to do it.

      the he should've discovered metalbending before.

      maybe he didn't bother trying because he new he could get out with his face/head/whatever. like I said, it just seems plausible. I not saying it is definite.

      But they couldn't train this skill like she does.

      why? a person with arms can move their body in the same way ming hua does.

        Loading editor
    • why? a person with arms can move their body in the same way ming hua does.
      Healing
      This is the chi path, the chi extends trough the arms and out of the body to bend the elements. What he said made sense because the chi go to the tentacle trough his hands. In Ming Hua's case the chi extend from her shoulder to the tentacles. They can't train it like her because they have arms, so their chi won't conect to the water trough the shoulders. That's why you have the impression that they need to move their arms and legs, ecause the chi go out of the body trough them and if they are cut(not only impeded of moving) the chi go out from the part that  was cut. They move their body to control the chi, there are some that are so good at controlling chi that they don't need to move their bodies to do minor tasks(psychic bending) or even major ones(Yakone's psychic bending). That's why his theory makes sense.
        Loading editor
    • Now that I think about it, metalbending kind of destroys the whole complaint that "nobody bent with their shoulders before, so it's impossible." Metal had been used to imprison Earthbenders for generations, perhaps even millennia, before some blind little girl realized, "Oh hey, I can Bend this too!"

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: This is the chi path, the chi extends trough the arms and out of the body to bend the elements. What he said made sense because the chi go to the tentacle trough his hands. In Ming Hua's case the chi extend from her shoulder to the tentacles. They can't train it like her because they have arms, so their chi won't conect to the water trough the shoulders. That's why you have the impression that they need to move their arms and legs, ecause the chi go out of the body trough them and if they are cut(not only impeded of moving) the chi go out from the part that  was cut. They move their body to control the chi, there are some that are so good at controlling chi that they don't need to move their bodies to do minor tasks(psychic bending) or even major ones(Yakone's psychic bending). That's why his theory makes sense.

      whoa whoa whoa. that is just that guy's hypothesis. we don't know that the chi extends to the element. .....and why couldn't someone with arms just use the chi paths in their shoulder's like ming hua? she can only use it because it is cut? what?

      we have been looking at this from an in universe view, which is totally fine, but we've been ignoring the out of universe reasons. ming hua still has no weakness and makes it seemingly advantageous to not have limbs. ruining the entire martial arts aspect of the show.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Now that I think about it, metalbending kind of destroys the whole complaint that "nobody bent with their shoulders before, so it's impossible." Metal had been used to imprison Earthbenders for generations, perhaps even millennia, before some blind little girl realized, "Oh hey, I can Bend this too!"

      just because one person does something that was thought to be impossible doesn't mean everything should suddenly be up for possibility. earthbending was shown to have the power to manipulate earth. there is metal in earth.

      all forms of bending were shown to require limbs to do most fighting. ming hua ignores that.

      bending being more dependent on your body is what set it apart from previous fantasy powers in other stories. it makes all the fights more believable and interesting.

        Loading editor
    • just because one person does something that was thought to be impossible doesn't mean everything should suddenly be up for possibility.

      Wow, look at that thing I didn't say.

      The fact is that pointing out that other characters didn't do it is a complete non-point, whether you want to admit it or not.

      bending being more dependent on your body is what set it apart from previous fantasy powers in other stories. it makes all the fights more believable and interesting.

      I agree, so it's a good thing that Ming-Hua's powers still rely on her movements.

      It's also a good thing that the writers are more imaginative on that premise than just "flailing your arms is how you make things happen."

        Loading editor
    • whoa whoa whoa. that is just that guy's hypothesis. we don't know that the chi extends to the element. .....and why couldn't someone with arms just use the chi paths in their shoulder's like ming hua? she can only use it because it is cut? what?

      Are there people in LoK that can manipulate the elements with the elbows or knee? 'Cause i don't remember that in ATLA. I think the chi was only shown leaving the body by the limbs, mouth, ass(fartbending), and the third eye(that is a rare and unique skill with only two people doing it in all the franchise). So if they can train that with the chi path in the shoulder, this is more inconsistent than Ming Hua's ability.

      we have been looking at this from an in universe view, which is totally fine, but we've been ignoring the out of universe reasons. ming hua still has no weakness and makes it seemingly advantageous to not have limbs. ruining the entire martial arts aspect of the show.

      I said that she doesn't make much more than use her tentacles to beat people up, as it doesn't seem as something that affect most of her fights you can say it's irrelevant but it shows that not having arms is limitating and not as efficient. I already told you some people i think can defeat her with no major problems, and only among the waterbenders.

        Loading editor
    • I love how Ming Hua's weakness to electricity doesn't count because it's only exploitable by firebenders. Well, here's an idea, anyone can go Equalist shock glove on her.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      The fact is that pointing out that other characters didn't do it is a complete non-point, whether you want to admit it or not.

      its not that other characters didn't do it. its that the opposite happened to them. they were all inhibited when their limbs were. and they were all shown to require their limbs to fight. there are tons of situations showing the importance of limbs. no one is ever shown to actually try metalbending before toph.

      I agree, so it's a good thing that Ming-Hua's powers still rely on her movements.

      It's also a good thing that the writers are more imaginative on that premise than just "flailing your arms is how you make things happen."

      yes, but she needs so much less movement than everyone else. and they didn't just "flailing their arms around", they needed to do actual moves. that's why katara had trouble controlling the water at first, she was doing the moves wrong.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Are there people in LoK that can manipulate the elements with the elbows or knee? 'Cause i don't remember that in ATLA. I think the chi was only shown leaving the body by the limbs, mouth, ass(fartbending), and the third eye(that is a rare and unique skill with only two people doing it in all the franchise). So if they can train that with the chi path in the shoulder, this is more inconsistent than Ming Hua's ability.

      again, we still don't know if the "chi leaving the body thing" is real. I am saying they SHOULDNT be able to do much with the shoulder, which is my ming hua is inconsistent.

      I said that she doesn't make much more than use her tentacles to beat people up, as it doesn't seem as something that affect most of her fights you can say it's irrelevant but it shows that not having arms is limitating and not as efficient. I already told you some people i think can defeat her with no major problems, and only among the waterbenders.

      but she uses her tentacles her tentacles so well that it really isn't that limiting at all. if its not as efficient she should be getting tired way before everyone else.

      also, she is harder to incapacitate because she has no arms to trap/break/chi block etc. while everyone else does.

        Loading editor
    • Dragonboy6491 wrote: I love how Ming Hua's weakness to electricity doesn't count because it's only exploitable by firebenders. Well, here's an idea, anyone can go Equalist shock glove on her.

      do you think the elements should be rock paper scissors? or four balanced arts? and we are talking about fights between benders. its not fair if someone has to always carry a tazer around to fight ming hua.

        Loading editor
    • but she uses her tentacles her tentacles so well that it really isn't that limiting at all. if its not as efficient she should be getting tired way before everyone else.

      Altough i do agree with you that she should get tired first since she moves more than anyone in the show, the fights don't even last that long.

      also, she is harder to incapacitate because she has no arms to trap/break/chi block etc. while everyone else does.
      do you think the elements should be rock paper scissors? or four balanced arts? and we are talking about fights between benders. its not fair if someone has to always carry a tazer around to fight ming hua.

      An earthbender can incapacitate her legs since they were shown doing it to other people before. As i said, a skilled waterbender have advantage over her. Did she ever fought a very skilled airbender? The only time she could have done that was when the RL tried to kidnap Korra and they lost. And in the show there are elements with a advantage over another.

        Loading editor
    • An earthbender can incapacitate her legs since they were shown doing it to other people before. As i said, a skilled waterbender have advantage over her. Did she ever fought a very skilled airbender? The only time she could have done that was when the RL tried to kidnap Korra and they lost. And in the show there are elements with a advantage over another.

      but, an earthbender (or anyone really) can incapacitate ANYONE's legs. AND anyone's arms. she has an advantage by not having arms. every other bender could be heavily crippled by crippling their arms. she was not.

      and each element does have advantages and disadvantages. but, non really had any weaknesses that could only be exploited by one other type of bender.


      anyway, I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one soon.

        Loading editor
    • Anyone's leg including her. So, skilled earthbenders, skilled waterbenders, and skilled airbenders have an advantage over her not only firebenders. Of course you can't cripple her arms because she doesn't have them.

      Azula was having a very hard fight against Katara, her element was perfect for countering her and Azula was a genius while Katara only had waterbending for a few months.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Anyone's leg including her. So, skilled earthbenders, skilled waterbenders, and skilled airbenders have an advantage over her not only firebenders. Of course you can't cripple her arms because she doesn't have them.

      Azula was having a very hard fight against Katara, her element was perfect for countering her and Azula was a genius while Katara only had waterbending for a few months.

      ok, so anyone's legs can be incapacitated. everyone has that weakness. anyone's arms can be incapacitated except ming hua. so she has an advantage.

      I think the azula and katara's fight was less about the elements and more about how all the kids suddenly became really good in season 2. that was something I liked about season 1. the only good bender kid was aang, and he was the avatar who is supposed to be really powerful. katara also faired well against others who were not firebenders.

        Loading editor
    • Of course you can't cripple her arms because she doesn't have them. You're saying that not having arms, something that limits her bending, is an advantage because they can't attack her arms that she doesn't have?

      And none of them was a super genius like Azula was built up as. I think it was because of their elements. If they are both serious, Katara will never win against Toph as long as they're on the ground.

        Loading editor
    • my point is not having arms hardly limits her bending. she is still an excellent bender. and not having arms gives her an advantage of being less of a target and having less to cripple.

      katara was shown to pick up waterbending pretty quickly, which is something I didn't like but, It happened. pakku said something like "you have picked this up quicker than anyone I have ever trained" or something. I think it happened to all the characters in season 2, the main characters suddenly became better than average. and katara faired well against toph when they dueled that one time. I think toph isn't as good against water/fire/air because she cant see it like she can see earth.

      anyway, the fire nation crushed the southern water tribe pretty well. and probably would've beaten the northern water tribe if Zhao hadn't messed with the spirits. I don't think any elements are flat out better than the others.

        Loading editor
    • No, no, no, no. The only reason Zhao had so much confidence in his invasion was because he knew that killing the spirit would take their bending away. He would have suceeded if it wasn't for Yue have been saved by it. The FN would have conquered the NWT a long time before Aang's return if it was as easy as you make it to be.

        Loading editor
    • even without yue, the ocean spirit still would've destroyed the fire navy/army.

      the invasion was clearly going well, the fire nation kept advancing and the water tribe kept retreating.

      I didn't say it was easy. they didn't try it before because it wasn't worth the resources. they were more interested in the earth kingdom. the only reason they invaded was because aang was there. they thought "well, might as well catch the avatar and destroy the northern water tribe at the same time".

      they also would've done even better if they hadn't invaded during a full moon.

        Loading editor
    • The FN attacked both tribes after the genocide ecause the next avatar would be a waterbender but they didn't suceed in taking the NWT's capital and then stopped attacking it for 85 years. If it wasn't for Yue the FN could just send another attack and it would be the end of bothe Water Tribes. When he killed the spirits they show some waterbenders beating firebenders and then losing their bending.

        Loading editor
    • they attacked both tribes because they were allies of the earth kingdom.

      they knew, somehow, that the avatar was an airbender that alluded the genocide. that's why everyone hunted "the last airbender" for 100 years.

      if it wasn't for yue the ocean spirit might not have stopped defending the water tribe. as soon as the moon came back it looked up like "ok, everything is good now" and then went a killed Zhao and was done.

      I think the elements are evenly matched. and that the fire nation was winning due to numbers and technology. of course some waterbenders were beating firebenders, it is a battle. i'm not saying firebending is better.

      how did we get on this topic? oh yeah, ming hua's one weakness.

      so do you really think the elements shouldn't be balanced?

        Loading editor
    • The ocean spirit only did that with Aang and i doubt Aang would stay there forever.

      It's not like it's only her weakness, a lot of people can't take a lightning shot(the avatar couldn't). And i already said that earth/water/fire/airbenders can beat her. You say that she doesn't have arms so they can't cripple her but there are a lot of other things they can do, she's still human and she have the same weakness as everyone els aside from not being possible to cripple her arms because she doesn't have arms.

        Loading editor
    • the ocean spirit was still capable of doing stuff without aang. it just need aang to take the form of koizilla I think.

      it put aang back and THEN went and killed Zhao.

      it pretty much is her only weakness. and duh, no one could take a lightning hit to their body (in ATLA anyway).

      i'm saying it isn't fair that everyone else is crippled when their arms are crippled. but her arms ARE crippled (by not being there) and she is still pretty good.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, it's a wekness all humans share, like many others.

      And i'm saying the reason she mostly use the tentacles is because she doesn't have arms. Also it needs a lot of movement and that have some effects on her body, like the way she looks to be sick and starving all the time.

        Loading editor
    • Except that with all those thin looks, you'd think we could see her other muscles moving as she tried to bend. Come on, progeny bloodbenders is one thing, but the sort of movements she was trying really need you to be moving about to have any functionality at all.

        Loading editor
    • ok. so everyone (in atla at least). would be incapacitated when their arms were. they couldn't fight. it was a weakness everyone had.

      ming hua's arms are non existent (worse than incapacitated) and she can still fight. making it an advantage. that is what is inconsistent to me. even if she uses mostly her tentacles, she is so good with them, that it isn't a weakness.

        Loading editor
    • I meant prodigy, sorry.

        Loading editor
    • Avatar Vyakara wrote:
      Except that with all those thin looks, you'd think we could see her other muscles moving as she tried to bend. Come on, progeny bloodbenders is one thing, but the sort of movements she was trying really need you to be moving about to have any functionality at all.

      But she does move a lot, if you watch her fights you'll see that she's spining like a crazy figure skater all the time.

      That in itself is a weakness and, as i said, it has effects on her body. I think she is at an advantage against a skilled waterbender, she had a hard time against Kya and Kya is a healer and probably don't focus a lot in her fighting abilitys.

        Loading editor
    • She spins, and she does these sort of shimmies with her neck, shoulders, and upper back.

      (To be quite honest, I'm reminded of the people ragging on that "Shinobu" OC back in '12.  Because she was supposedly overpowered and broke the rules of the setting...and then, Ming-Hua is introduced doing the same thing cranked up to eleven in canon.)

        Loading editor
    • Didn't like that character when I stumbled upon her on Google Images. The reason is that her arms have complete hands. Ming Hua can make ice hooks, drive a car, & do a lot of surprising things, but her water arms always have relatively limited complexity.

      Also her name.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote:
      ok. so everyone (in atla at least). would be incapacitated when their arms were. they couldn't fight. it was a weakness everyone had.

      ming hua's arms are non existent (worse than incapacitated) and she can still fight. making it an advantage. that is what is inconsistent to me. even if she uses mostly her tentacles, she is so good with them, that it isn't a weakness.

      No one (in my memory) has mentioned that her legs pose a possible weakness. Just trip her up and she loses some control (Venom of the Red Lotus: trips on a crystal and loses control of her water). Also, I think that if someone stayed away from her and use long range attacks instead of close combat, they would fare better, as most if not all of her battles she won were at close range. 

        Loading editor
    • I did say a earthbender could cripple her legs, all humans in the Avatarverse have this weakness so i don't know why it shouldn't count.

        Loading editor
    • If I recall, he said that (A) everyone has this weakness so it doesn't count as a weakness to HER technique & (B) she uses her water arms for everything so it doesn't affect her much anyway. Which ignores that she doesn't have other limbs to fall back on.

        Loading editor
    • But she does have other limbs.

        Loading editor
    • But if she needs a lot of momentum to power her water limbs, then not really.

        Loading editor
    • Corpington wrote: No one (in my memory) has mentioned that her legs pose a possible weakness. Just trip her up and she loses some control (Venom of the Red Lotus: trips on a crystal and loses control of her water). Also, I think that if someone stayed away from her and use long range attacks instead of close combat, they would fare better, as most if not all of her battles she won were at close range. 

      yes, that is a weakness everyone shares. she has no weakness from her arms being non-existent.

      also, I remember her tentacles being able to get pretty long.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: I did say a earthbender could cripple her legs, all humans in the Avatarverse have this weakness so i don't know why it shouldn't count.

      because she has no weakness related to the fact that she has no arms.

      like toph's weakness was she couldn't see airborne things. completely vulnerable.

      combustion man's weakness was that if you hit him in the head with even a little pebble, he becomes useless.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Which ignores that she doesn't have other limbs to fall back on.

      what do mean? she has her water arms.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: But if she needs a lot of momentum to power her water limbs, then not really.

        Loading editor
    • what?

        Loading editor
    • UHRDM.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      UHRDM.

      I understand why you quoted yourself there, but what is the meaning of this? Even google didn't help me with it.

        Loading editor
    • ^I think he was maybe saying "you are dumb"? I don't know

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote: But if she needs a lot of momentum to power her water limbs, then not really.

      ....she DOESNT need a lot of momentum to power her water limbs.

      if she falls she can stop her body with her water arms.

      is this what we are talking about?

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      UHRDM.

      I understand why you quoted yourself there, but what is the meaning of this? Even google didn't help me with it.

      Sound it out.

      ....she DOESNT need a lot of momentum to power her water limbs.

      Says you.

        Loading editor
    • she doesn't. she moves her shoulder like a punch.

        Loading editor
    • Maybe she uses energy bending. Energy bending is't the same as bending an element because it is not a martail art and requires no actual form or specified movement.

        Loading editor
    • The actual idea of bending is to use it like its an extension of your body it's been stated several times throughout the series. Minghua represents this concept not sure what the problem is.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      The actual idea of bending is to use it like its an extension of your body it's been stated several times throughout the series. Minghua represents this concept not sure what the problem is.

      They mean that it's like the bending ability or the binding force between person and element comes out of the body and connects to the element.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote: The actual idea of bending is to use it like its an extension of your body it's been stated several times throughout the series. Minghua represents this concept not sure what the problem is.

      I actually don't really remember anyone saying that. but, an extension is different than a replacement.

        Loading editor
    • " The way Wan moves fire it's like nothing I've ever seen, he uses it like it's an extension of his body."

        Loading editor
    • do you have any ATLA references? I think LOK is inconsistent with ATLA. not Ming Hua is inconsistent with LOK.

      also.....extension is different than replacement.

        Loading editor
    • Yep toph says this "So we understood each other. I was able to learn earthbending,  not just as a martial art, but as an extension of my senses," 

      Also Bryke has stated this in numerous interviews, The water  Minghua bends are her arms there how she interacts with the world she just uses water bending to extend her senses, they cant replace somthing that was never there.

        Loading editor
    • ok. extension of the senses. not the body.


      and how does waterbending extend her senses?



      but anyway. i'm getting a little tired of this discussion. I think everyone has said pretty much everything there is to be said.

      so I think we should just agree to disagree.

        Loading editor
    • That's fine anyway to answer your question water bending extended her sense of touch like how earth bending extended tophs sense of sight

        Loading editor
    • I know it is far from canon but, I just want to throw this in.

      In the recent DeathBattle Episode "Toph vs Gaara"

      Gaara said something like "you control stone with your arms, I must remove them".

      .....ok. i'm done. just wanted to say that.

        Loading editor
    • Wasn't canon, wasn't even correct, wasn't really any point in bringing that up.

        Loading editor
    • well whether it is correct is the point of this debate.

      but, I am pretty much done with this debate.

      It was just something new, so I wanted to throw it in.

        Loading editor
    • It was incorrect in the video, it's incorrect because Toph can still use her legs, & it's incorrect in the canon.

        Loading editor
    • yes she can still use her legs. but, it just showed the importance of limbs. and how removing them would be a massive hindrance.


      and how is it incorrect in the canon? toph definitely uses her arms to bend. it is correct that she uses her arms. even if she also uses her legs.

        Loading editor
    • Have Gaara ever said that in the comics, cartoon, or any other canon source?

        Loading editor
    • ^I know it isn't canon.

      The point is that whoever wrote DeathBattle also thinks that limbs are required for bending fighting.

      I think it is very obvious if you ATLA but, whatever. you disagree.

        Loading editor
    • TheAvatarNate wrote: yes she can still use her legs. but, it just showed the importance of limbs. and how removing them would be a massive hindrance.

      Way to state the obvious there. Of course having your limbs removed would be a hindrance! However, "hindrance" doesn't translate to "impossible". TLA did indeed show people bending without their arms and legs, (example: Aang with his glider) therefore it is possible. It's not much of a stretch to suggest that someone would be able to develop that form to a much more powerful level.

      And before you go saying that nobody was ever shown doing that to any practical level, let me just mention that metalbending used to be considered impossible for the same reason. That didn't stop Toph from doing it.

        Loading editor
    • flying in an of itself isn't a fighting move.

      I don't care how much of a "stretch" it would be to "develop it to be more powerful". It ruins everything cool about bending. bending is now a generic fantasy magic power in LOK. it's strong reliance on the physical is what made it cool in ATLA. and made it THE coolest fantasy power ever created. and also the most believable and relatable.

      and the metalbending thing is irrelevant. just because someone does something previously thought impossible do