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  • Pretty self explainitory.I'd want to see more of the Red lotus and maybe eventie them with that Hundun from the video games. I'd also like to see:

    Korra's hair returned to it's proper style.

    Katara, Zuko, and Toph play an aactive role

    A flashback to the Adult Gaang

    Korra and some other air bender learning to fly.

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    • I'd like a primary threat to come from 1 or more "bodybenders" (shapeshifters).

      I would not mind seeing Korra's hair grow back out to her original style, or perhaps Asami lays claim to what style she wants.

      I'd like to see Asami develop a jetpack ala The Rocketeer, not only because her action duds is so reminiscent of it, but it also fits the whole "20s/30s" retropunk and airships motif. Although I'd prefer to see her using a pro-bender helmet so her hair is free and face unobstructed (lose the stabilizer vane). Perhaps it could also operate underwater; a dual operation also fitting for the whole "most animals are hybrids" thing.

      I would imagine that since the spirit-vine powered blaster technology has been cracked, to be explored more with side- and mounted firearms. To be more 'spirit friendly', instead of cutting up spirit-vines, harvest seeds and fruits for the ammunition. Perhaps different spirit plants would generate different effects.

      Korra and or Asami Bless/Gifted/Pranked/Cursed by Realm or Spirit Entity with parthenogenetic pregnancy(ies). Being spirit-induced, at least one child has the powers of the Avatar. This can be a special 1-off case and the next avatar back to non-heredity reincarnation (upon either Korra's death or the child). If only one child, dammit I have no problem with her name being Korrasami. Ki for short.

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    • Body benders? Now that's a cool idea.I see them as being one of the lesser known results of harmonic convergence. Who says all it did was make new air benders?

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    • Or even older. Although HC could have increased their numbers. There is just something so very frightening about a secret clan able to move about through societies with borrowed and stolen identities. Harder to know friend from foe. Especially if some can more commonly bend as well.

      Then perhaps they, or one, sets out to discredit/replace the avatar. There are several paths I could take this depending on how Nickelodeon-friendly vs grimdark people would like to see it be.

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    • I want to think it would be maybe one to two years into the future. The Earth Kingdom is a democracy, Republic City is undergoing expansionism, and Korrasami is secretly blooming. Now, say we get more inside the Red Lotus, and we have Xai Bau about to dye. He is talking about how Zaheer failed him, however, the Red Lotus has expanded since then. There's a glassbender, a lightning bender who not only generates but controls lightning, a soundbender, who can take control of the soundwaves in air, like a healer can control the healing properties in water, and some weird vapor bender who can create large sums of water simply from water vapor. Anyway, while Team Avatar is in the Earth Kingdom, the Red Lotus tries to take our Su Yin, then they go to the Fire Nation to take out Izumi and Zuko, perhaps Raiko (hopefully//well maybe not. He had one good idea to expand the city)), attempted Tenzin. Anyway, not thought out. Just an idea.

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    • Also, I want Korra to get more powerful. New sub-form.

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    • I prefer a mini series dedicated to Wan or the second avatar instead

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    • They should do a story about Kuvira during the 3 years she stabilized the Earth KIngdom. It just came to me.

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    • How about Korra in the Fire Nation.

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    • It is true that we haven't had a main Fire Nation antagonist in the Fire Nation on LoK, but in order to keep originality, it'd be cool if there was a parasite within the Fire Nation, and someone in the Fire Nation royalty was assassinated like Zuko, Izumim, or Iron.

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    • I think Korra needs to be done in animation. I'd like to see a different Avatar, preferably old world and could be one we never saw. I'd like to see the interaction between the earlier nations and their formation. Middle history could also be fun. I'm more interested in just more of the world, I'm not particularly tied to any of the existing characters. I liked them, but they've had their stories and I'm ready to move on and see others. I'd like to see another Avatar in training like Aang (so, a little earlier in progression in bending mastery than Korra) or already well "Fully Realized" and established. If the latter, I'd like to see some kind of serious crisis, either human, natural, or spirit, and how it was dealt with or, just what it was like to be the Avatar.

      As far as pacing, I'd like a return to ATLA's more, with time for filler episodes that don't feel like they're wasting time and could build characters or the setting.

      Frankly, as far as known Avatars, I actually wouldn't mind watching a series of Kuruk going around dueling people and pissing off spirits. While I'm not particularly interested in him, it could provide the kind of entertainment and avenue for exploring the world that I want.

      I'd like to see an earth or fire Avatar, but I guess that it isn't so important.

      Lastly, I'd like to see some more of what the Air Nation was like during its height.

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    • I'd rather have a new series a little farther into the future because the other air nation didn't really concern themselves with others. I also want to see an Avatar who can't even bend their home element.

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    • Waterbend.3.19 wrote: I also want to see an Avatar who can't even bend their home element.

      While interesting, the "can't do 1-or-more element" thing has become a trope with avatar fanfics. Personally, as a fic writer who likes to "shake things up" with the less-expected(if at all) I'd rather see an avatar who has complete mastery over the 4 elements but does not have a lot of power. As in, can't bend/affect much more than his body weight/mass, and can't exert that control too much father than he could throw his own body weight. This would mean he has to use bending like a precision scalpel rather than like a broadsword.

      So, many people are talking about how he is the weakest/least powerful/most disgraceful/worst avatar ever (known). Then you could also have a faction who are still looking for THE Avatar because this "90 lb weakling soaking wet" version of a bender cannot be the avatar no matter how many elements he can control.

      Then have him meet/partner up with/fall for a "heatbender". This is a rather recent topic on some avatar analyses tumblers where each element seems to have manipulation of heat in common. Water/ice; earth/mud/lava; possibly even air. So I'd go for heatbending as a "passive" or "defensive" form of bending. Someone bends an element at them, they can change its heat state. For example, a shower of sharp ice becomes a shower of water. Since the waterbender's intended attack was the sharpness of the ice, the water itself is not as dangerous as if they had intended to use the water itself as a weapon. Etc.

      Maybe even a bloodbender among their friends. They don't want to use their bending as it is still very much feared—although with a growing field of medical understanding, medicinal bloodbending could have gained a measure of legitimacy—so they most try to pass themselves off as a non-bender.

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    • I font an Avatar who can't bend the elements, maybe an Earth Avatar who is better at his metalbending that Earthbending simply because he can't bend a lot f Earth at a time. More of an acute type of bender.

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    • Asami needs a power-up, possibly from some exposure in the Spirit World. My main gripe with Korrasami is not the romantic pairing but as them fight partners. Yeah, I know they tried to get her to do something but most of the time, Asami has to stay back while the benders finish the job. When she does fight alongside Korra, it's to take out one or two pesky combatants. Maybe three. She needs to be the Iron Man, not the Black Widow and not even the Batman to her Superman.

      So... here's an idea. Her own body can store spirit energy, like the spirit vine energy without the vines. She can use it to charge or boost her electrified glove, boosting its power and range. With a mini jetpack, she can fly higher and longer than with regular fuel. She can even temporarily boost other benders' powers, like giving Mako a brief Sozin Comet-like firebending. Yes, I am ripping of Ando Masahashi's powers from Heroes. Ando was originally a normal human who got tired of being Hiro's non-powered sidekick, so he was given this similar power. I even like the color. Icon_mrgreen.gif

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    • Or an Avatar who was on the side of the Red Lotus.

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    • Hasdi wrote: Asami needs a power-up, possibly from some exposure in the Spirit World. My main gripe with Korrasami is not the romantic pairing but as them fight partners. Yeah, I know they tried to get her to do something but most of the time, Asami has to stay back while the benders finish the job. When she does fight alongside Korra, it's to take out one or two pesky combatants. Maybe three. She needs to be the Iron Man, not the Black Widow and not even the Batman to her Superman.

      So... here's an idea. Her own body can store spirit energy, like the spirit vine energy without the vines. She can use it to charge or boost her electrified glove, boosting its power and range. With a mini jetpack, she can fly higher and longer than with regular fuel. She can even temporarily boost other benders' powers, like giving Mako a brief Sozin Comet-like firebending. Yes, I am ripping of Ando Masahashi's powers from Heroes. Ando was originally a normal human who got tired of being Hiro's non-powered sidekick, so he was given this similar power. I even like the color. Icon_mrgreen.gif

      In a fanon I'm developing, Varrick begins experimenting on the mocha-suits he created for Kuvira's army, which in a way mimic the four elements, well only three. (Fire- Flamethrower and Electric Shooter twinges. Air- They push people back. Earth- Metal Cables) Well, anyway, in the fanon I'm developing, he made a miniature version and integrated the mechanics in a suit that's human-sized, and he gives it to Asami so that she can fight.

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    • I want Asami to strap a Rocketeer jetpack to her back—her fighting outfit is perfect for it—with a pro-bender helmet so her hair is free and face unobstructed. Perhaps it can even work underwater, capitalizing on the whole hybrid-animal theme. Project TurtleDuck.

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    • Ya, but you guys need to remember that the movie Iron Man's power is from the fictitious arc reactor, essentially a miniaturized version of a nuclear reactor. That's how it is realistic for him to be able to fly at high speed and over long distances, and strong enough to take on the movie Thor. A miniature Rockeeter-like bodysuit won't do that by itself. I know it's fiction but it still has to make sense in the Avatar world.

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    • Oh, my desire for a jetpack is totally separate from any Ironman-derived parallels and expies. *I* think a form-fitting Ironman-like mechasuit is beyond feasibility for LoK era technologies. Only a metal bender would be able to emulate the formfitting appearance, but it would not be a techsuit.

      Also, The Rocketeer did not have a suit. Only a jetpack and a hastily made helmet. Asami's fighting outfit is reminiscent of Cliff Secord's (which in fact the jacket of was the inspiration for Bolin's finale clothes). All of the technology would only be in the Sato Aero(Hydro)dyne's shell.

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    • ^ The problem is not the jetpack, but the FUEL for the jetpack. In our real-world, this the state of the art:[1]

      Max Flight Time: 33 seconds ⇐⇐⇐
      Maximum Distance: 2500 ft
      Max Speed: 77 mph.
      Maximum Height: 250ft
      Fuel Capacity: 5.3 gallons. ⇐⇐⇐

      So, if Asami wants to go longer than 33 seconds, she needs to replace 5.3 gallons of fuel with something like spirit vine energy...

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    • Which is exactly what I had in mind, so waaaaay ahead of you.

      But instead of hunks of spirit vines, which causes the entirety of the network of plants to negatively react, I'd go with seeds (plants expect that to be separated from the parent body) or optimally I'd go with some form of fruit-pulp byproduct (unlike seeds which are expected to propagate more plants in the spirit-plant cycle of life so even seeds might garner a neg plant response, fruits are expected to be consumed) or even sap, oils, and juices, etc.

      Such sources should be energetic enough to fuel such a compact engine for quite a while.

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    • Ah... but both Asami and Varrick already swore off using spirit vine energy, which would include its seeds, because the technology could fall in the wrong hands and be abused. However, if Asami was granted the ability to generate spiritual energy from her own body, this limits the technology only to her, but not to others. Icon_idea.gif

      Now, some baddie would probably want to turn her in a human battery to power their heli-carrier but that's another story. xP

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    • Varrick swore off exploring that line of experimenting, and Asami refused to develop/copy spirit vine weaponry, yes.

      However I can see during (one of) their vacations in the Spirit World where Korra reaches out/up and plucks a couple fruits. So Asami wonders /worries about vines reacting in retaliation again. But Korra explains about the cycle of life and purpose of parts of things. Chopping chunks out of vines/plants will be perceived as an attack on the whole, but it purposefully drops/spreads seeds as need to propagate itself. And fruit, well, it is nature to be consumed, so no retaliations for taking that part of plants.

      With that, Asami starts to consider. Mayyyyybe she confers with Varrick and together they work out the best way to process harvested Spirit fruit to stimulate clean and stable energy. Not to mention human-friendly spirits would approve of the respectful way such harvesting would proceed.

      As for making Asami some sort of spirit-energized battery… personally I don't like the idea. Part of Asami's charm is that she is a genius and Bad Ass Normal, and IMO doing that to her would diminish that aspect of her character.

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    • All of the things everyone is saying are really great idea's and concepts... Me and a group of friends play a dungeons & dragons like role playing game that takes place in the avatar world about 60 years after loK! I am the one tunning the games (game master) and I have quite a few cool idea's, but I was wondering if anyone had any cool idea's of plots that could happen in this game!!! 

      The players are playing members of the white lotus who have been training and working with the new avatar (an earthbender)

      Thanks to anyone who has any idea's!!!

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    • Love Robin wrote:
      As for making Asami some sort of spirit-energized battery… personally I don't like the idea. Part of Asami's charm is that she is a genius and Bad Ass Normal, and IMO doing that to her would diminish that aspect of her character.

      I got it! Icon_biggrin.gif A spirit dog-like creature follows Asami home, and it has a rare ability of generating lots of spirit energy. It can phase into Asami's equipment to give a power boost, e.g., an electrified glove turns to a repulsor weapon and an jetpack gets hours of flight-time. It's kinda like a cross between Ben 10's Ship and Pokemon's Pikachu. As a bonus, we have brother-sister villains on an ongoing hunt for this rare creature, but as a running gag, kept getting blast off into space at the end of every episode.

      Bringeth the Iron Maiden! xD

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    • I'm going to answer with what I'd like to see in a comic continuation, since that's actually feasible.

      BOOK 5

      Korra's & Asami's Spirit World vacation is a given.

      Varrick is helping to expand the city after the fight with the Colossus. Grandma Yin wants to move back to the Earth Kingdom, allowing us to see a little bit of its reorganization, as well as some places we didn't get to see in Book 3. This is also a cheap excuse to have Mako & Bolin in the Earth Kingdom so that Bolin & I can finally achieve our dreams of being taught by Toph & learning how in the Hell Lavabending works, respectively.

      One of the Airbenders tells Tenzin that remnants of the Red Lotus have been tracked to--wait for it--the Fire Nation. Thanks to Zaheer's efforts in the Spirit World, they are able to ally with certain Dark Spirits who have grudges against the Avatar. So obviously they have to go get Korra, who clearly has enough foresight to at least leave a letter detailing what she's doing with instructions on how to contact her in the event of an emergency. Mako & Bolin of course find this out from Toph, allowing Team Avatar to join up to deal with the Red Lotus. And since they're established international criminals, we can have other fan favorites join in, like Tonraq, Lin, & Iroh II.

      The Lieutenant had escaped during the evacuation, only to be captured again by the Red Lotus, who are able to hypnotize him into telling them where Amon learned Chi Blocking. This is how we discover its "dark history" & the missing years in Noatak's life.

      Because all of this needs to come to a head somewhere, let's say that Xai Bau was alive, & the Red Lotus were seeking Spirit Water to restore him to vitality. They couldn't just march into 1 of the portals because of the whole being international criminals thing. Since I peg Xai Bau as a nobody who saw creating the Red Lotus as a way to gain power & recognition, he probably has his sights set on the throne, under the flimsy excuse that he's not creating a government, just teaching a new generation of Red Lotuses. In terms of his final confrontation with Korra, I see 3 possibilities:

      1. Make him the nonbending villain that Legend of Korra never had. I'm not sure what his "gimmick" would be to make up for his lack of powers.

      2. Make him a waterbender, so they can show how much Korra has grown when she encounters Bloodbending again. Obviously, since he's not a son of Yakone, their fight would need to be under the full moon.

      3. Make it so he's gained the power of Energybending from the Spirits. "Legend of Korra" developed Energybending to the point where it could actually be a fighting style & it's the only type of villain that we haven't had. This is also about the only thing that can compete with the Avatar State.

      Whatever the case, he's defeated & either killed or stripped of his powers (including the ability to go into the Spirit World), & the rest of the Red Lotus is jailed. On the other hand, Korra's forcible pacification of Spirits leads to some unrest.

      BOOK 6

      As mentioned, there's a lot of lingering unrest over the Spirits. The residents of Republic City aren't exactly happy with them freeloading only to abandon it in their hour of need. The Spirits, in turn, are not happy that a huge portion of their ecology was blown up & the Avatar is going around forcibly converting any Spirits she doesn't like. They start with a simple rebellion, they just turn people away from the Spirit Portals who want to come in. Jerky tourists are probably leaving their trash in there anyway.

      Korra & Tenzin try to reason with them, but they don't see why they humans are entitled to some of their world. They point out that humans have welcomed them. The Spirits point out that no, they really haven't. Korra has seen how this is going to go if she doesn't put a stop to it & has the idea to find Spirits that have been existing in the world peacefully, figuring that they're the best equipped to persuade other Spirits.

      This unfortunately has the side-effect of stirring up conflict in the Spirit World, as Dark Spirits that would otherwise go undisturbed, lurking deep inside the Spirit World, would catch wind that the Avatar is losing control of the situation & try to corrupt the other Spirits to their side.

      So now Korra & Friends have to deal with a war between Spirits, something completely unheard of (Raava & Vaatu do not count as a war) for any Avatar, with her Spiritbending & any form of fighting only making things worse. Because everyone is clamoring to see him anyway & he makes a convenient Deus Ex Machina, Koh shows up to steal Korra's face when she's at her most vulnerable.

      We then shift to the others doing damage control & trying to keep the Spirits out of the city. More combat-oriented characters like Mako & Bolin obviously do their thing, while more spirit-aligned characters like Tenzin & Kya try to find ways to make peace with the Spirits & heal them of their darkness, as well as heal the odd human victim possessed by a Spirit.

      Since those whose faces are stolen by Koh exist in a half-state between life & death, Korra is effectively in deep meditation. In this way, she discovers that she can draw out a Spirit's inner conflict much like the acupuncture did for Lin. In this way, she can convince Spirits to allow themselves to be pacified, succeeding first with Koh, who returns to his mother (I think literally, as in Koh is just the dark part of the Mother of Faces, shedded).

      Face back on body, Korra is able to resolve the Spirit conflict. The newly healed Spirits see that humans have actually done a lot for them, but they haven't done much to give back. They decide to prove they can be trusted, using their powers to cut down on problems that humans can't easily solve, such as famine, disease, & Dark Spirits.

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    • Nice.

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    • Lavabender02 wrote: All of the things everyone is saying are really great idea's and concepts... Me and a group of friends play a dungeons & dragons like role playing game that takes place in the avatar world about 60 years after loK! I am the one tunning the games (game master) and I have quite a few cool idea's, but I was wondering if anyone had any cool idea's of plots that could happen in this game!!! 

      The players are playing members of the white lotus who have been training and working with the new avatar (an earthbender)

      Thanks to anyone who has any idea's!!!

      If you haven't already, you should start a forum of blog for this, so responses are more on-point for what you want.

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    • will do, Thanks!!!

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    • Frankly, as far as known Avatars, I actually wouldn't mind watching a series of Kuruk going around dueling people and pissing off spirits. While I'm not particularly interested in him, it could provide the kind of entertainment and avenue for exploring the world that I want.

      I tought i was the only one who wanted it. People seems to think badly of him, but if you had all this power and nothing to do can you say you wouldn't do the same thing he did? Watching him would be really fun and entertaining.

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    • It might be entertaining for one episode, but a whole book with Kuruk just challenging people to bending feats could get old fast.

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    • I just wanna see a series all about Zuko from end of ATLA to beginning of LOK.

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    • I want to see an Azula Alone or an episode based solely on Zhu Li and Varrick's marriage.

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    • I'd love to see some more energy bending and some others enter the void as well as some new danger.

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    • In regards to what I would like to see, it would mainly be wrapping up all of the loose ends left by the story. The creators they would have everything wrapped up, but everything I've witnessed up until now shows me that is not so. The operatives of the Red Lotus that Zaheer mentioned at the conclusion of Book 3 have yet to be shown, as are the organization's current goals and activities. Additionally, in regards to Wu's plan to dissolve the Earth Kingdom into independent democratic states, this may not go over as well as he thought. While certain states might enjoy the idea of independence, the various states have been led by the traditional nobility and bureaucracy (ex. King of Omashu) who might not want to give up their traditional seats of power to democratically elected leaders. Therefore, it would be interesting to see if his plan would work in spite of that and other likely problems. Finally, we have not seen the aftereffects caused by the Republic City Spirit Portal. When Harmonic Convergence occurred and Korra left the portals opened, the airbender population resurged, and so I look forward to seeing any spiritual side effects created by the new portal.

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    • I would like to see:

      MORE EPISODES! They really struggled with the 12/13 episode format of LoK leading to an uneven pacing so more peisodes in a hypothetical 5th book would be great. 16 at least.

      Then I'd like to see her dealing with the whole mess in the Earth... Nations by helping to intermediate between the various new formed states showing that she really is more compassionate now but still has to learn alot about politics and how to properly deal with them as the Avatar. Also, have her take Kuvira's bending away as punishment (since executing her would've resulted in the rest of her army going nuts) but have her have huge issues with this since she knows how emotionaly scarring it is for someone to have their bending taken away, especially if it was so important to them like it was for Korra and Kuvira.

      Then I'd like to see more of the Spirit/Human issue. My guess is that the spirits that appeared after Harmonic Convergence simply kept to themselves and barely bothered anyone with all the vines being more an inconvinience for the humans. However now that another spirit portal has been opened the spirits and humans could clash more leading to even more problems for Korra to solve. I'd also like to have her trying to reconnect with her past lives because she fears that the Avatar lineage, despite being restarted with her, is massively screwed now (probably resulting in the next Avatar being a squirrel frog or something). It would be interesting to see her trying to be truly spiritual and not just using spirits for the purpose of getting more skills.

      Make the Krew a bit closer. We know that they're friends but sadly, most likely because of the 12/13 episode format, there wasn't really that much interaction between them so having them be closer would be nice. On a similiar note I'd really like to see how she an Asami pull it off. I mean, one of the problems for their relationship could already be that both are in rather busy positions with Asami having a massive responsibility with her company and helping to rebuild Republic City (again) and Korra needing to travel around helping to sort out political issues. They'll barely have time for eachother. And of course there should be more of Mako's deductive skills.

      MORE NAGA. Naga was what I've felt to be a missed opportunity. Where as Appa had a tons of personality Naga sadly lacks such. Expanding on her would be nice.

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    • I agree. the mini-series format was the show's biggest and only real problem IMO.

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    • I don't really see the problem with Naga.

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    • The Fire Nation.

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    • In the new book, they should do a new Red Lotus story. About 3 important member's who want to release Zaheer out of prison. One is a master earthbender who can phychic earthbend and metalbend (and can use lavabending, but can't create lava). The other is a master firebender who can use fireblasts as powerfull as Ozai's during sozin's comet. He can also alter his fire to different colours and can use lightning, doesn't do both too often and rather sticks to original firebending. The third and the leader of the trio is a non-bender. He uses a shield against firebending opponents and uses knives to fight (like the assassin's creed guy). He is proficient is chi blocking (about half as powerfull as Tai li) and is quite resistant against lightning (Asami's equalist glove won't do much damage). He also uses shirshu darts, but not very often (the darts that took down Appa in the desert). The trio villian group meet up with an earthbending pro bending Red Lotus member who is also a metalbender and his wife, another Red Lotus member and a water bender (healer). They create a plan together and make a deal with the Agni Kai triad/Triple Treads to help them release Zaheer out of prison. They succeed and a new hunt on the Avatar and world leaders begins...

      This book also contains back stories about Red Lotus members, how the group was formed, who Xai Bau is and a back story of Zaheer, Ming Hua, Ghazan, P'li and their first attempt to kidnap the Avatar. Also contains minor characters who the fan want's to see return. Less romance and some fun Korrasami parts. 20 chapters in total for this book.

      Does this sound like a good story?

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    • Sounds good to me.

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    • Does this sound like a good story?

      I don't think their abilities really make much sense, I don't think it makes much sense that they weren't in Book 3 if they existed, & outside of breaking out Zaheer, most of your suggestions focus on the past, making me wonder why this isn't a prequel.

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    • Also?  Triads are authoritarian; Red Lotus are antiauthoritarian.  Their interests don't align.

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    • They would if there was something in it for them.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Does this sound like a good story?

      I don't think their abilities really make much sense, I don't think it makes much sense that they weren't in Book 3 if they existed, & outside of breaking out Zaheer, most of your suggestions focus on the past, making me wonder why this isn't a prequel.

      Perhaps it could be a prequel, but also just a sequel with some flashbacks like in book 1. I wouldn't mind seeing that again. Their abilities are just something new and give the avatar again a different threat than before. We've never seen a psychic earthbender and a firebender who can alter the colour of his fire before. I would love to see that. They could make a book taking place in the Fire Nation, since a lot of fans wanted to see that. Besides, it's quite logical that they didn't appear in previous books, since none of the villains do that except for Kuvira. Zaheer wasn't even mentioned in the first 2 books and he was quite a big threat to Korra.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      Also?  Triads are authoritarian; Red Lotus are antiauthoritarian.  Their interests don't align.

      Triads are in it for the money. For enough money, they would do anything.

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    • We've never seen a psychic earthbender and a firebender who can alter the colour of his fire before. I would love to see that. They could make a book taking place in the Fire Nation, since a lot of fans wanted to see that.

      There's no real point to having him change the color of his Firebending, but that's not even the issue, the issue is that he has Firebending 100 times normal strength for no reason other than to be "special."

      The nonbender being "resistant to lightning" doesn't really make sense either.

      Which is not to say that I'm signing off on psychic earthbending--psychic waterbending was already pretty bad--just that it doesn't violate any continuity.

      Besides, it's quite logical that they didn't appear in previous books, since none of the villains do that except for Kuvira. Zaheer wasn't even mentioned in the first 2 books and he was quite a big threat to Korra.

      No, that's a bad comparison. Zaheer not appearing in Books 2 or 3 is because those had nothing to do with the Equalists & the plot explains his absence by saying that he's in jail. In Book 3, the Red Lotus are the antagonists, so it wouldn't make sense for such major figures to not appear.

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    • SUB01
      SUB01 removed this reply because:
      it is stupid
      22:07, April 11, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Well, the reason why his firebending would be 100 times stronger is because he would be a firebending master. This wiki stated on the Sozin's comet page that during the comet, the firebending of a bender were increased dramatically, fully using their chi. Something normally only a firebending master can do. This also forms a greater threat to Korra. A nonbender being quite resistant to lightning would be interesting, because then Asami wouldn't be able to take him down in a go and Mako's lightning wouldn't be a one hit kill. Psychic earthbending seems to me like a cool idea, psychic bloodbending I must admit, was a bit too much. 

      If Zaheer really was that big of a threat to the Avatar, I think Tenzin or someone else from the White Lotus should've at least mentioned him in book 1 or 2. One other thing I find weird is that since the ending of book 1 when Amon died, nobody has even mentioned him ever since. Has everyone forgotten about him and how big of a threat he was? Korra shouldn't be able to know he died.

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    • Ozai was a master firebender, and Iroh was even more of a master than him. The comet enhances one's power in firebending, so the more powerful someone is the more powerful they get during it. Being a master don't make you as powerful as Ozai during Sozin's Comet.

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    • A nonbender being quite resistant to lightning would be interesting, because then Asami wouldn't be able to take him down in a go and Mako's lightning wouldn't be a one hit kill.

      Interesting is relative. How would you even be "resistant to lightning"? It's not like you make antibodies against it.

      One other thing I find weird is that since the ending of book 1 when Amon died, nobody has even mentioned him ever since.
      "Zombie Amon" suggests that people generally believe he's dead. Either that's what they concluded after nobody could find him, or they fished his body out of the ocean.
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    • A non bender villain who uses spirit powers would be interesting. That could make them immune to lightning.

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    • SUB01 wrote:
      Deist Zealot wrote:
      Also? Triads are authoritarian; Red Lotus are antiauthoritarian. Their interests don't align.
      Triads are in it for the money. For enough money, they would do anything.

      Organized crime in the real world is as much about control as money.  The Triads, being the Avatarverse equivalent, would likely turn on a group of anarchists as soon as they thought they were losing control.

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    • Seems to be that Iroh and Ozai were somewhere in the ballpark of being comparable. By Iroh's own admission, he didn't know if he could even defeat Ozai himself. The two had different approaches to firebending and particularly during Sozin's Comet, Ozai's feats were more impressive. Now, this may have been due to having a meaningful opponent that required and drew this out of him, but still, hard to say Iroh was definitively more of a master than Ozai.

      As for the triads and the Order of the Red Lotus cooperation, maybe there would be some at various points, as a means to an end, but ideologically, they're way different and could just as easily be hostile toward each other. The triads very well could oppose the ORL because freedom/chaos would be bad for business (though, it is unclear if Zaheer's ideology was in line with an overall vision of the ORL, he and his cohorts may have been a splinter group for all we know), as they have a great niche within (or even influence to outright control over) the current order.

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    • Seems to be that Iroh and Ozai were somewhere in the ballpark of being comparable. By Iroh's own admission, he didn't know if he could even defeat Ozai himself. The two had different approaches to firebending and particularly during Sozin's Comet, Ozai's feats were more impressive. Now, this may have been due to having a meaningful opponent that required and drew this out of him, but still, hard to say Iroh was definitively more of a master than Ozai.

      In the fight against Aang all Ozai did was throw punchs and kicks while flying. The only thing that distinguished him from a normal firebender was the power. And the power he had was very impressive, but his fire punchs and kicks weren't more impressive than Iroh's technique he used to destroy the wall. While he may be as powerful(or even more) as Iroh, and Iroh don't know if he can defeat him, as far as masters go Iroh is a better one. Standing still while someone redirect you lightning to you two times, even tough Zuko showed people in the Avatarverse can react to lightning, is not a sin but it doesn't help either.

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    • Zuko showed that they can redirect lightning, not necessarily evade it, & Ozai did not have that technique, because Iroh came up with it & taught it directly to Zuko.

      I'll see what other people say about the power. To the best of my recollection, the only time Ozai hit anything was when he was attacking Aang's stone sphere. He had to use a fire bomb to destroy it, but Iroh used a much different technique.

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    • After Azula shot the lightning he ran and jumped in front of it. If this doesn't mean they can evade it i don't know what it means. Both times his lightning were redirected he stood still, and against Aang he was looking at him scared enough to move. He was also in a greater distance than Zuko was from Azula so he had the advantage of the lightning taking more time to reach him. There's nothing saying redirection makes it faster.

      He also hit a lot of rock pillars with lightning and didn't destroy any of them. He destroys some rock barriers Aang summons with his firebending though. Oh yeah, lightning redirection, this puts Iroh above Ozai, master-wise.

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    • I would love to see Korra helping Kuvira and possibly working with the Republic City police to release Kuvira early so that Kuvira can properly lead the Earth Kingdom into stabilization. I think Kuvira would be a great leader, honestly. Because her citizens are loyal to her and obviously appreciate everything Kuvira has done for them. And I think with some guidance and supervision from Korra, Kuvira would do a great job. Plus, Kuvira is the first enemy of Korra's that Korra has had the chance to really understand and sympathize with and a friendship between them would be really cool to see. I believe Kuvira deserves a second chance and a Book 5 detailing the Earth Kingdom's stabilization would be neat. I would also want to know how the new portal would affect the world and if the new portals offers a new realm to the spirit world. I would want Book 5 to discuss Korra's connection to her past lives (whether she can get it back or not or how Korra can still access the past avatars via another way). 

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    • korra gets better at metalbending

      bolin teaches lavabending to someone

      toph teaches some other earthbender to earthbend and metalbend

      kuvira is let out of prizon and becomes part of team avatar

      a main character that is either a sandbender, foggy swamp waterbender or sun warrior

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    • Winterlotus90 wrote:
      I would love to see Korra helping Kuvira and possibly working with the Republic City police to release Kuvira early so that Kuvira can properly lead the Earth Kingdom into stabilization. I think Kuvira would be a great leader, honestly. Because her citizens are loyal to her and obviously appreciate everything Kuvira has done for them. And I think with some guidance and supervision from Korra, Kuvira would do a great job. Plus, Kuvira is the first enemy of Korra's that Korra has had the chance to really understand and sympathize with and a friendship between them would be really cool to see. I believe Kuvira deserves a second chance and a Book 5 detailing the Earth Kingdom's stabilization would be neat. I would also want to know how the new portal would affect the world and if the new portals offers a new realm to the spirit world. I would want Book 5 to discuss Korra's connection to her past lives (whether she can get it back or not or how Korra can still access the past avatars via another way). 

      Why would the Earth Kingdom (or anyone for that matter) wan't to be ruled by a dictator who dous't care for human rights?

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    • The amazing earthbender wrote:
      korra gets better at metalbending

      I'm kinda surprised that the whole "no one can bend platinum" thing wasn't a setup for a "guess again."

      bolin teaches lavabending to someone toph teaches some other earthbender to earthbend and metalbend

      The girl with jata who Korra was up against in the fighting ring in "Korra Alone" seemed to have that waterbender-esque combat style that I've come to associate with lavabenders, so it's clearly not limited to probenders and terrorists. (Hell, sandbenders seem like they'd take to it.) And I think Toph may have been implying, in her abrasive cranky way, that she'd be willing to take Bolin on as a student if he doesn't break her granddaughter's heart again.

      kuvira is let out of prizon and becomes part of team avatar

      Ehh...if I were to have Kuvira redeem herself, I'd give her a genuine story arc for it.

      a main character that is either a sandbender, foggy swamp waterbender or sun warrior

      Personally, I'd like to see a combustionbender who's not an antagonist. (There have been precisely two, and they've both been heels even if P'Li was of the tragic variety.)

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    • The Fire Nation, the development of the new Earth States, Baatar's relationship with his family, and some answers about Suyin's paternity and what happened to all the ATLA characters who've gone missing.

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    • Quite  frankly,  I don't  want to see another Kora series, or for that matter another Avatar series period.  Kora's story is done and I really  don't want to see  Avatar:The Space Oddity, either.   It'd at be just as awful  as when   they took ElfQuest's World of Two Moons  into the space age.

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    • Winterlotus90 wrote:
      I would love to see Korra helping Kuvira and possibly working with the Republic City police to release Kuvira early so that Kuvira can properly lead the Earth Kingdom into stabilization. I think Kuvira would be a great leader, honestly. Because her citizens are loyal to her and obviously appreciate everything Kuvira has done for them. And I think with some guidance and supervision from Korra, Kuvira would do a great job. Plus, Kuvira is the first enemy of Korra's that Korra has had the chance to really understand and sympathize with and a friendship between them would be really cool to see. I believe Kuvira deserves a second chance and a Book 5 detailing the Earth Kingdom's stabilization would be neat. I would also want to know how the new portal would affect the world and if the new portals offers a new realm to the spirit world. I would want Book 5 to discuss Korra's connection to her past lives (whether she can get it back or not or how Korra can still access the past avatars via another way). 

      The Earth Kingdom  is going a better way than transitioning to either another autocrat or a monarch,  it's evolving into another republic.  Kuivera's redemption if any,  would take the form not seeking power again, as she's  proven spectacularly her failure  to divorce her people's  needs from her personal issues.

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    • i'd like to see some cold-war era avatar world with an occupied EK divied between all the main nations with one half monarchy that is NWT and FN and the other deomcracy which is URN and SWT

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      i'd like to see some cold-war era avatar world with an occupied EK divied between all the main nations with one half monarchy that is NWT and FN and the other deomcracy which is URN and SWT

      This sounds interesting, although, do you think by then the Avatar would be easily overcome by the threat of such modern technology? By then several developed nations had access to extremely long-ranged combat. How would just one person even be relevant in a nuke standoff?

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    • If there was a fifth book, I'd like to see these two things happen: The restoration of the previous link to the past Avatars and the rebuilding of the Northern Air Temple. That's all I ask.

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    • Slaphappyjoy wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      i'd like to see some cold-war era avatar world with an occupied EK divied between all the main nations with one half monarchy that is NWT and FN and the other deomcracy which is URN and SWT
      This sounds interesting, although, do you think by then the Avatar would be easily overcome by the threat of such modern technology? By then several developed nations had access to extremely long-ranged combat. How would just one person even be relevant in a nuke standoff?

      well Kuvira's spirit energy cannon is the closest thing their world to nukes and hopefully the last time spirit energy is experimented with and hopefully nukes won't be developed as it's one of mankind's worst creations. second to the television show uncle grandpa

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    • Using spiritual energy in place of nuclear energy will likely have the same outcome. How many places are in the world of Avatar that can be made livable?

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    • with benders any enviroment can be made livable

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    • Not if you use nuclear energy. That stuff poisons any environment for a long time.

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    • Right, it's the "poison" effect, not the blast itself. It's questionable whether or not a spirit energy weapon has any kind of "poison" effect. We've seen that dark spirit chi can act a bit like poison, but we don't know if that extends beyond the Avatar, or if Kuvira's weapon is really "dark" or just a huge mass of chi.

      As far as benders cleaning up nuclear weapons go, it should be possible, in theory. The radiation secreted by a nuclear weapon is just unstable atoms decaying into other elements. In theory, benders should be able to pull the unstable elements from the environment.

      The reason I keep saying, "In theory" is because there are a lot of logistical problems. The small size of the particles. If plants & animals have taken them into their bodies. How to separate say a small mass of uranium atoms from inside of a rock wall. And so on.

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    • hopefully nobody in the avatar world will try to develop nukes

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    • I'd like to see a return to A:TLA's spiritual roots (although given the sheer extent of the retcons involved, that's likely impossible).

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    • Mageddon725 wrote: I'd like to see a return to A:TLA's spiritual roots (although given the sheer extent of the retcons involved, that's likely impossible).

      Would that include the restoration of the connection to the past Avatars?

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    • I'd like that as well. 

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    • Yes, yes it would. They're a fundamental part of who the Avatar is. Unless, y'know, we're just taking mythos-destroying retcons as gospel, now.

      Roku's explanation is a lot more interesting than "glowy kite spirit who can give you superpowers without the need for prior skill or knowledge"

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    • I simply don't believe it was the right thing to do by severing the past Avatars in the second book.

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    • Are you kidding?

      From a *writers'* perspective, that was absolutely brilliant. It was a game-changer. It removes a crutch and forced the Avatar to have to grow on her own merits.

      Also, since this was the first convergence, it may also be a precedence set for all future convergences. The Avatar may have to ALWAYS wipe the slate clean.

      At least until it becomes a game-changer for the Avatar *not* to wipe the slate clean…

      I was more afraid it meant the Avatar Cycle was broken, and that Korra would be the last one…

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    • Well, that's ironic phrasing, since the Gospels are themselves a huge retcon to the Jewish mythology, but that aside, I don't get this notion some people seem to have that there's somehow a "choice" here. Raava & the severance of the past lives ARE part of the story, one either accepts that fact, or is in denial.

      Nor do I see how it strayed too far from the show's "spiritual roots." We've always known that there's some kind of spirit that makes what the Avatar does possible. The battles of Harmonic Convergence & loss of the past lives are very evocative of the cycles of creation & destruction seen in a lot of eastern religions, wherein spirits are also usually strange beings from other planes of existence.

      Now, I don't believe in eastern spirituality, so I have no real reason to value accuracy to it, but if I did...wouldn't I be all gung-ho about the loss of the Avatars? Letting go of things you value is a huge message in both Hinduism & Buddhism, at the very least.

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    • Mageddon725 wrote:
      Yes, yes it would. They're a fundamental part of who the Avatar is. Unless, y'know, we're just taking mythos-destroying retcons as gospel, now.

      Roku's explanation is a lot more interesting than "glowy kite spirit who can give you superpowers without the need for prior skill or knowledge"

      This sums it up.

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    • Man, everyone needs a crutch! Also, this was just the first Convergence shown to be recorded in current history. It's not technically the first Convergence. Even the one where Wan and Raava merge together was the first one.

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    • Mageddon725 wrote:
      Yes, yes it would. They're a fundamental part of who the Avatar is. Unless, y'know, we're just taking mythos-destroying retcons as gospel, now.

      Roku's explanation is a lot more interesting than "glowy kite spirit who can give you superpowers without the need for prior skill or knowledge"

      What is Roku's explanation and what makes it so much better than Raava?

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    • Roku said the glow of the Avatar State was Aang's predecessors channeling their combined power and knowledge through him.

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    • Aggression25 wrote: Man, everyone needs a crutch! Also, this was just the first Convergence shown to be recorded in current history. It's not technically the first Convergence. Even the one where Wan and Raava merge together was the first one.

      True. Nonetheless it was the first Convergence for an Avatar with a line of past life connections.

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    • Quite frankly,  I'm quite happy to stick a fork in it and call it "done". I don't see anything particurlarly interesting in any of the ideas suggested and I think that the story concept has been taken as far as it can.

      Stories end... enjoy them for what they are and then move on.

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    • Drahliana wrote: Quite frankly,  I'm quite happy to stick a fork in it and call it "done". I don't see anything particurlarly interesting in any of the ideas suggested and I think that the story concept has been taken as far as it can.

      Stories end... enjoy them for what they are and then move on.

      You don't see anything of interest in any of the ideas? What about the restoration of the Northern Air Temple?

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    • If their were a fifth book I would loke to see Korra reconnect with her past lives.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      Drahliana wrote: Quite frankly,  I'm quite happy to stick a fork in it and call it "done". I don't see anything particurlarly interesting in any of the ideas suggested and I think that the story concept has been taken as far as it can.

      Stories end... enjoy them for what they are and then move on.

      You don't see anything of interest in any of the ideas? What about the restoration of the Northern Air Temple?

      Yeah...the whole "just enjoy stories for what they are!" argument reminds me of the sort used to either shut down critique or to try to justify fanwork bans. 

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    • I've read a fanfic where the Northern Air Temple is restored and there didn't seem to be many stories where the temple was rebuilt at all. Or the connection to the past Avatars being restored, either. Many want to see those actually happen.

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    • No offense, but I think that's the worst counterexample you could have come up with. There's nothing particularly interesting about fixing a building. We'd just go, "Oh, neat, they rebuilt it," & then move on.

      I'm somewhere in the middle, leaning towards Drahliana. Sure, there's more to be explored, which is why I'm so enthused for the comics, but I don't really see what there is to gain by adding random things to the cosmology like shapeshifters or human parthenogenesis.

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    • It would help to ensure the balance between the Four Nations. There needs to be a Northern Air Temple.

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    • While true, rebuilding a building is nothing in the way of a story. It is a goal which frankly can be done as an off-screen mention.

      A story needs more than a stated goal. It needs something in the way of a "journey" with problems to overcome. At this point, there would really be no one to object to the NAT being rebuilt.

      Now, something like an exploration of the Republic City Portal has potential. It is, after all, a means of access directly into the heart of the Republic. I cannot see any competent military leader allowing it to go unaddressed. It is already known that the N & S are in close physical proximity to each other and can be used for rapid travel between the poles of the Mortal World. So where are they to the RC? How far is the RCPortal from the North and South Portals on the Spirit-side?

      So, establish a "beachhead" base on our side. Send through teams of *Stargate SG-1* -like teams to explore and "map"—as much as the spirit world can be mapped—and encounter spirits friendly and hostile. The "SG-1" team should consist of definitely Korra with possibly Asami, while Mako and or Bolin are with other teams. At least initially.

      As a bonus, perhaps in the name of "balance" there is a fourth "counterbalancing" portal which was ripped open at the same time as the RC which could be discovered. Where might *it* lead to? Be interesting if *it* lead to a new realm which even spirits were unaware of… Maybe even another planet.

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    • What she said, for the most part.

      Maybe even another planet.

      How many times do I have to say to never go Full Dragonball!?

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: How many times do I have to say to never go Full Dragonball!?

      Dunno Dragonball's actual story. I know what it alludes to and the basics of most of the characters. But frankly, my husband ruined it for me very early in the original airings. He said…

      "Basically *every* fight is the same. A says chit using many sentences. B says chit with a few more sentences than A. One builds up a power shot, the other returns a power shot. Rinse. Repeat. Next episode."

      …damn him.

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    • That's actually Dragonball Z, which is the 2nd half of Dragonball, but the anime adaptation splits it when the space alien comes & reveals he's Goku's brother, & that's why he turns into a giant ape during the full moon, &...y'know what, it's just easier to say that he is right.

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    • ;P

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      No offense, but I think that's the worst counterexample you could have come up with. There's nothing particularly interesting about fixing a building. We'd just go, "Oh, neat, they rebuilt it," & then move on.

      I'm somewhere in the middle, leaning towards Drahliana. Sure, there's more to be explored, which is why I'm so enthused for the comics, but I don't really see what there is to gain by adding random things to the cosmology like shapeshifters or human parthenogenesis.

      On the one hand, I think rebuilding the temple would be better as a minor subplot—and only an interesting one if a massive SNAFU occurs, although a political SNAFU could certainly count if it gets messy enough.  And I do think that some of the ideas proposed...well, get kind of silly.  (*Glowers at a few followup fics that I ran across on AO3.*)  But I stand by my comparison to fanwork bans.

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    • I don't know what a "fanwork ban" refers to in this context.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: I don't know what a "fanwork ban" refers to in this context.

      Most likely a ban on any fanfiction.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote: I don't know what a "fanwork ban" refers to in this context.

      Most likely a ban on any fanfiction.

      Yeah, that's pretty much it.  (Sometimes also extends to a ban on fan art of any sort.)

      On the one hand, Sturgeon's Law (that's "90% of everything is crap," if anyone didn't already know) certainly applies to fanfic.  On the other?  Fanwork bans spit on fair use.  Additionally, I've never seen an argument in defense of such bans that doesn't both display a fundamental incomprehension of copyright law, and approach from the premise that fans should be nothing but passive consumers.

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    • If fanfiction is such crap, then why do we invest much of our free time reading and writing about it? Why waste our years working on a story with deviations and what-if scenarios that we feel should've happened in the original series of whatever we look at?

      I'll tell you why. Because we love fanfiction.

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    • Aggression25 wrote: Why waste our years working on a story with deviations and what-if scenarios

      Problem is, that a large portion of fanfic writers do not invest that much into their work. Some barely invest an afternoon's worth of effort slapping some words together without bothering to run their spellchecks.

      And frankly, some of their "what-if" are more like "why bother".

      I'm sure you've run into more than a few like that and probably blanked them from your mind…

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    • And keep also in mind that Sturgeon's Law passes equally harsh judgment on media as a whole.  Much like there are nine Lunastars for every Gigabomb or Dandybear, there are nine Ishtars for every Pan's Labyrinth or Spirited Away.

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    • Actually, every source I've heard on the subject says that fan fiction generally IS NOT fair use, but is simply tolerated (usually, sometimes more or less tolerated than other times) because it's viewed as largely harmless free publicity & the backlash of trying to prosecute it isn't worth it.

      But I don't see why fair use is even necessary to invoke. I was quite surprised that this Wiki hosts fan fiction. Most Wikis I've been on do not allow that, as that is not the intended purpose of a Wiki.

      As far as it relates to the topic, I generally don't read "what if" scenarios, as I find they are, at best, no better than the original, & differ mainly in terms of what the writer chooses to privilege. A great example is all of the "alternate ending" fan fictions for Book 1. Sure, I did not like the ending, but I don't think it's somehow better with Korrasami instead of Makorra, or if Noatak lives, or what have you.

      Not that I read a lot of fan fiction to begin with, but those I do read are usually farther along the "original, self contained story" spectrum or parodies.

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    • Most fanfics i've seen are abou characters going from the real world to the avatar world. They are nice, but they suffer from a big problem wich is lack of originality. Not only in all of them the character is a die hard fan of ATLA who knows everything about it(i can count on one finger the number of fics in wich this is not the case), but there is also no change to the story. They know about the coup of BSS but do nothing about it, they know about the FN's strategy for the eclips but do nothing about it, they know everything and they do nothing aside from just being there. Sometimes they even steal lines from the actual characters instead of coming up with nice dialogues or tell Aang to stop whining. And i think the reason is because those are the most famous ones and get more fans, and when there is a really good and creative one, they don't receive any support and the author gives up. I'm talking mostly about fanfics from fanfiction.net since i don't read the ones in this site.

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    • True. Then there are the ones that swing to the opposite extreme, where authors using that premise or inserting a new/original character end up with something in which said character ends up essentially taking over the story and upstaging the existing characters. Which is incredibly annoying as well, IMO. 

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote: Why waste our years working on a story with deviations and what-if scenarios

      Problem is, that a large portion of fanfic writers do not invest that much into their work. Some barely invest an afternoon's worth of effort slapping some words together without bothering to run their spellchecks.

      And frankly, some of their "what-if" are more like "why bother".

      I'm sure you've run into more than a few like that and probably blanked them from your mind…

      Only a few. Only a few. One of the best stories of Avatar I've read was Stolen.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Actually, every source I've heard on the subject says that fan fiction generally IS NOT fair use, but is simply tolerated (usually, sometimes more or less tolerated than other times) because it's viewed as largely harmless free publicity & the backlash of trying to prosecute it isn't worth it.

      But I don't see why fair use is even necessary to invoke. I was quite surprised that this Wiki hosts fan fiction. Most Wikis I've been on do not allow that, as that is not the intended purpose of a Wiki.

      Sure, there are people trying to tear down the argument in favor of fanfic being fair use.  Those arguments, for the most part, are rooted in the faulty reasoning I described in my previous post (which isn't even going into the often-ignored fact that fanfic writers—a few exceptions such as The Wind Done Gone, Wide Sargasso Sea, West Side Story, and so on aside—don't tend to profit off of it)...to say nothing of some really screwy crap from particularly bristly or petty creators. 

      At least some percentage of fanfic, however, is undeniably transformative.  (I'd argue that the entire concept is—with the proviso that it doesn't always do a good job of things—but I digress.)  And transformative works are protected under fair use. (For example, the author of one of those rare for-profit examples won a lawsuit against the original book's author's estate on the grounds that her book was a "parody."  Her book is not a parody by the usual "comedic send-up" definition.  However, the legal definition of "parody" includes distinct but related works that double as commentary on, or critique of, the original.)

      Which brings us back to the screwy crap: some creators (read: just about always speculative fiction authors) are bristly or petty and entirely willing to seek (or at very least threaten) legal action against fans over fanfic, just on account of...well, as far as I can tell, the idea just making them somehow existentially uncomfortable—the backlash, to say nothing of the expense of doing so versus just ignoring it (and from what I've seen, the majority of agents advise authors to ignore it), be damned.   (One author, for example, compared writing fanfic of her work to making a pass at her husband.  If I could make up troll logic of that caliber, I would never lack for original material.  Note that said author's own works contain characters from other people's media with the serial numbers barely filed off...but we won't go into that.)

      Not particularly concerned with whether or not anyone likes or dislikes AUs, as that's a matter of personal preference.

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    • (One author, for example, compared writing fanfic of her work to making a pass at her husband.  If I could make up troll logic of that caliber, I would never lack for original material.  Note that said author's own works contain characters from other people's media with the serial numbers barely filed off...but we won't go into that.)


      Name?

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    • DrachenRitter42 wrote:
      True. Then there are the ones that swing to the opposite extreme, where authors using that premise or inserting a new/original character end up with something in which said character ends up essentially taking over the story and upstaging the existing characters. Which is incredibly annoying as well, IMO. 

      Hoo, boy.  I'm looking at the chimeric dual-bender.

      I'm also looking at a few OC airbenders that I could name.  For one, there was the dude who was somehow an airbender before Harmonic Convergence, had more girls fawning over him than both of the Ferret Brothers combined, and was a P'heerling on top of all of that.  (The writer had fan art of him that I'm sure he didn't draw, too; imagine a narrower version of young!Zaheer's face from that one Eugene Lee image on more-or-less Mako's physique, and you've got an idea.)

      And then, there was the Star-Lord expy who was somehow thrown into the Avatarverse from the real world and picked up airbending in the process, had a name that made him sound like an unholy fusion of a P'heerling and an actual Marvel character, and pretty much derailed Book 1.

      Don't get me wrong; all of these writers were basically technically proficient.  But their OCs were just cringeworthy.

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    • My fandom playground is primarily Kim Possible. While I have a couple OCs, I primarily try to either promote canon background characters to just under the headliners, and or "import" characters from other franchises. Total Drama's Izzy is my fav to bring in.

      All of which leaves my OCs mainly for when there are no one else suitable to use…, and while any character might receive a spotlight or solo portion of the stories, none ever get the MS treatment.

      Definitely no self-inserts.

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    • Sure, there are people trying to tear down the argument in favor of fanfic being fair use.

      I'd say it's quite the other way around. Fanfiction is on shaky ground to begin with, protected mainly by the fact that it's usually non-profit & considered not a threat to the original's commercial value. The fact that so much fan fiction seems to be of the self-insert or crossover varieties (read: using vast amounts of the original plot, setting, & characters with only superficial changes) really doesn't help.

      And in no way am I saying that this is something everyone else is doing aside from me. My particular vice is setting new stories with new characters in existing worlds, mainly via play-by-text RPs. I am 400% certain that would be legal trouble if I weren't some nonentity on some backwater freeware forum that nobody gives a shit about, not even the few people who post there most of the time.

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    • I'm all for the fanfiction where Yue lives and is with Sokka in the end. However, my primary fanfic network is Evangelion and its potential crossovers.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Sure, there are people trying to tear down the argument in favor of fanfic being fair use.
      I'd say it's quite the other way around. Fanfiction is on shaky ground to begin with, protected mainly by the fact that it's usually non-profit & considered not a threat to the original's commercial value. The fact that so much fan fiction seems to be of the self-insert or crossover varieties (read: using vast amounts of the original plot, setting, & characters with only superficial changes) really doesn't help.

      And in no way am I saying that this is something everyone else is doing aside from me. My particular vice is setting new stories with new characters in existing worlds, mainly via play-by-text RPs. I am 400% certain that would be legal trouble if I weren't some nonentity on some backwater freeware forum that nobody gives a shit about, not even the few people who post there most of the time.

      Source on it being on "shaky ground" in any way?  For one, it's not so much "protected" as ignored (which, again, seems to be the usual suggestion from agents) by creators who don't have some sort of petty vendetta against it. And secondly: it by all rights should be protected as fair use, as transformative works (yes, there's debate as to whether or not fanfic is transformative; said debate is invariably, if not inherently, rooted in the notion that fans should be nothing but passive consumers) are considered fair use by definition.  (Again: don't confuse it being transformative with it being inherently good.  That's probably the closest you'll ever see anyone who's not one of her cronies get to defending Lunastar's hellacious garbage.  And additionally: if I can see my wiki edits all over someone's fanfic, I'd argue that it's debatable whether or not it actually counts as their own work—and, for that matter, whether or not it even actually counts as fanfic.)

      Hell, the case against the "parody" was that it was supposedly plagiarism.  The author, in that case, was profiting off of the book.  If someone's not profiting off of it, trying to nail them for plagiarism (which is the likeliest case that could be made) goes from "petty" to "you are not only a dog in the manger, but a genuinely unethical and malicious person."

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    • Aggression25 wrote: I'm all for the fanfiction where Yue lives and is with Sokka in the end.

      If I were to do an AtLA fanfic, it would be about Yue the Moon Spirit visiting Sokka for booty calls the three days of the new moon.

      Suki would initially be PO'd, but what can she do? You can't say "no" to the Mood Spirit! Eventually she learns not only to accept, but to join in…

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote: I'm all for the fanfiction where Yue lives and is with Sokka in the end.

      If I were to do an AtLA fanfic, it would be about Yue the Moon Spirit visiting Sokka for booty calls the three days of the new moon.

      Suki would initially be PO'd, but what can she do? You can't say "no" to the Mood Spirit! Eventually she learns not only to accept, but to join in…

      I am more interested in this than I'd normally like to admit, especially the part where Suki participates.

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    • Man, there shouldn't be relationships where it's all about booty calls! They need to be about character development and trust. While I enjoy a good lemon every now and then, but not too much, and there should be weddings or commitment ceremonies.

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    • Aggression25 wrote: Man, there shouldn't be relationships where it's all about booty calls! They need to be about character development and trust. While I enjoy a good lemon every now and then, but not too much, and there should be weddings or commitment ceremonies.

      While some, many even, might write a fic only about the pairing and or Booty Calls, not all do. *I* make the relationships in my fics secondary to a main plot.

      I'd not only focus on the "lemon" itself, but on other factors. Sokka faced with his first love's "return" even if only 3 days a month. Suki having to cope with her man's first love returning. How others react once it gets out, cause Sokka tries to be gentlemanly about not kissing and telling, but something like this always gets out—probably Suki bitching to her "confidantes".

      So, guys are either jealous or thumbing-up his snagging a spirit, but then also having to deal with how their women are now looking at Sokka with openly frank appraisals because, hey, he's man enough the freakin' MOON SPIRIT comes out of the sky to warm his bed.

      So Sokka is getting proposals from varied womenfolk, some completely unexpected. Suki is being offered a few shoulders to cry on because "her man is disrespecting her and she needs someone to treat her as she deserves". At least one someone claims Sokka is the father of an expectancy…

      Spiritual leaders come to either publically denounce this "unholy defilement of The Spirits", or to become Sokka's acolytes. Men and Women want his fertility blessings (or his fertility), some guys band together to try and arrange his death—in a manner seeming "accidental" cause you don't want to anger the Moon Spirit…

      See? A lot of character development for development!! Doesn't have to be only about the Lemon.

      But Lemon there shall be! Maybe some limes too… LOL.

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    • Source on it being on "shaky ground" in any way? For one, it's not so much "protected" as ignored (which, again, seems to be the usual suggestion from agents) by creators who don't have some sort of petty vendetta against it. And secondly: it by all rights should be protected as fair use, as transformative works (yes, there's debate as to whether or not fanfic is transformative; said debate is invariably, if not inherently, rooted in the notion that fans should be nothing but passive consumers) are considered fair use by definition.

      That is not how fair use works. As the link notes, courts use 4 main criteria to judge whether something is fair use. "Nonprofit, transformative, or educational" are all part of ONE factor used, the "purpose & character of the use." Other factors include the "nature" of the work, how much material is used, or if it affect's the original's market value. Note at the bottom that it also says that being unpublished is not necessarily a protection.

      Hence the reason behind the term "shaky ground." Depending on the fan fiction, it may fail or succeed at meeting various factors. At this point, it would be up to the hypothetical judge to decide whom the "balance" favors in the case: If they decide the balance of factors favors the defendant, it's considered fair use, if it's considered in favor of the copyright holder, it is not.

      As it is generally a common rule that fan fiction will (usually, there are exceptions) seek to imitate the nature of the work & incorporate large amounts of the original elements (settings, characters, etc.), in a hypothetical court case, a defendant would essentially have to hope that their "purpose" (nonprofit, transformative, etc.) combined with a lack of threat to the original market would be enough to swing the balance in their favor. Not exactly a comfortably, solid case, but not a sure loss either, i.e. "shaky ground."

      Now, as you say, agents usually advise against targeting fan fiction. Like I said, it's usually found that it's better to tolerate it for reasons not really related to copyright law. Even if you could win, it's generally a waste of time & money to prosecute unless it's a serious threat to your work, because stopping every fan fiction writer is a total pipe dream, & pissing off your fanbase by getting all litigious towards them could potentially hurt your profits more than any fan fiction. Or some writers choose to view fan fiction more positively, saying it builds fan communities, & allows people to practice so that they may one day be content creators themselves.

      Unless it's on YouTube, then you can just DMCA anything you want with basically no repercussions, but that's another issue entirely.

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    • It would be fascinating if the future installments included a restoration of the NAT and it would show that there is a Godzilla-like happening. The whole destruction and rebirth thing.

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    • ...okay, where's the beFogged post I just spent several minutes writing?

      To summarize: the thing is, just about no one goes gunning for fanfic or other transformative works for any reason except purpose and character (for all that, hypothetically, the amount of the work used could be disingenously exploited in order to target fanfic just for being fan work quite easily). 

      And while a case could hypothetically be made on "the original nature" of the work, considering just how nebulous (and thus, similarly easy to exploit) that it?  If you hear about anything other than purpose and character being brought up as an argument against fanfic being fair use, it's perceived threat to commercial value.  Which, at best, makes as much sense as saying the same of unfavorable critique...and at worst, makes as much sense as saying the same of free advertisement.

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    • Yes, it is nebulous, which has been a problem in the past. For instance, there was apparently a case where a 400 word quote out of a 20,000 word passage was ruled not fair use because it was the "heart" of the work, which I find ridiculous.

      However, I also think that sheer common sense would tell us that if someone is using the characters & basic plotlines, or even the setting, that can't be defensibly denied as not the "nature" or "heart" of the work.

      I don't know what you mean for the second part. Unfavorable critique is considered an exception to the rule against harming the original's commercial value. However, if you look at something like Dragonball Z Abridged (for example), it's reasonable to say that it's big enough & of a similar enough purpose to the DBZ dub that it's in conflict with Toei for the same market, even though they don't monetize the videos. That would not be a fair use exception, & it's unlikely that Team Four Star could continue if they did not have Toei's approval.

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    • Yes, that example is ridiculous and actually makes me wonder if the judge wasn't hung over.  And yes, critique is considered the exception to the rule. 

      But there's...seriously no way in hell that even bad fanfic (and I'm talking about badfic on the level of Squad Broken or My Inner Life) could do any more harm to a work's commercial value than a particularly brutal negative review.  And, conversely, good or even mediocre fanfic is essentially free advertising.

      I can't speak on DBZ Abridged, but would speculate that it appeals primarily to people who are already fans of the original.

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    • Judges. It was the US Supreme Court.

      I doubt a court would be concerned with the quality of the story, like I said their concern would most likely be whether or not it's serving a similar market, & therefore competition.

      They would not just say, "It's fan fiction, so it's free advertisement." Even if that were true, (Which doesn't really make sense, because then you could throw out basically every category & instead say that as long as you credit the original source, it's "free advertising"--there is no reason that such a thing should apply only to fan fiction) it wouldn't really matter, because the copyright holders have the right to decide how to advertise their works, even if their decisions are stupid.

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    • It sounds more like freedom of speech, not free advertisement.

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    • Copyright law essentially says that freedom of speech entails having ownership of specific things that you say.

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    • Except I never claimed that fanfic is free advertising. 

      What I said was that claiming that fanfic (something unlikely to make much sense to anyone not already familiar with the original work) is in competition with the original work or a threat to its commercial value makes, in some cases, as much sense as claiming that someone promoting your work for free is in competition with the work or a threat to its commercial value.  (Or, at best, makes as much sense as claiming such of a nasty review.)

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Copyright law essentially says that freedom of speech entails having ownership of specific things that you say.

      Well I say, if I've purchased it from you, then it's mine with which to do whatever I want.

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    • Slaphappyjoy wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Copyright law essentially says that freedom of speech entails having ownership of specific things that you say.

      Well I say, if I've purchased it from you, then it's mine with which to do whatever I want.

      Not exactly. When it comes to stories and such, known as intellectual property, what you are buying is the printout of the author's words. That's all you have purchased. The intellectual property itself remains under ownership of the creator.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      Slaphappyjoy wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Copyright law essentially says that freedom of speech entails having ownership of specific things that you say.
      Well I say, if I've purchased it from you, then it's mine with which to do whatever I want.
      Not exactly. When it comes to stories and such, known as intellectual property, what you are buying is the printout of the author's words. That's all you have purchased. The intellectual property itself remains under ownership of the creator.

      Sure...that's a thing, but how can a person own something that's inside of another person, when that something was given in a fair trade?

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    • When it comes to fanfiction, we use the original version as its foundation, and what comes after is purely our own.

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    • Aggression25 wrote: When it comes to fanfiction, we use the original version as its foundation, and what comes after is purely our own.

      Yup, often true.

      Thing is, with copyrighted IPs and without permission, the copyright-holder is well within their rights to take exception and umbridge and sue. They can issue DMCAs and Cease & Desists and the Law uphold them.

      More than that, most companies, such as websites, will acquiesce to such notices to avoid legal costs. Very few will try to challenge validly issued notices. Fanfiction.net has a short list of authors who object to fanfics of their works, and FFn will promptly delete anything attributable to the IPs on that list.

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    • That sounds awful to know. It's like they don't want us to know about fanfiction and the blissful freedom it provides for creativity.

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    • Think of it this way…

      You build a house. You decorate and furnish it to your liking. Maybe with a partial eye to the comfort of visitors. The result is your "intellectual property". It is your vision.

      Then I come along and start making changes. I add splashes of color here, a rug there, and place a door in a wall while knocking down another to connect two rooms. The changes are *my* vision. I started with yours, and "what came after" was "purely mine".

      How much will you care for what I've done to your property? That is what fanfiction is.

      Don't get me wrong because I too write fanfics, but that is still the legal reality. We enjoy what "freedom" of what we do at the sufferance of the original owners.

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    • If you're going to use this "house" analogy, then its goes: you build it, and then you put it on wheels (distribution) and gave it away in a fair trade; only to try to claim that you didn't fully give it away. No, since you let your house be driven off away from you, then its not yours anymore right? What's now yours is whatever you traded for, not the house.

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    • Nope. No wheels. No driving away.

      Because authors do not "give away" or sell our rights to our intellectual properties. We only sell printouts to them. The properties themselves remain ours. As is proven by every IP-owner's successful lawsuit for Infringement.

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    • I don't see how something can be yours if you've traded it away and it now resides inside another person.

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    • I know i have nothing to do with your way of life, but my DVDs and my books are not inside me.

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    • Slaphappyjoy wrote: I don't see how something can be yours if you've traded it away and it now resides inside another person.

      I think I see your "boggle" (ref that!). You are mistaking reading/learning/knowing something as the same thing as the RIGHT to treat it as your own intellectual property.

      That's why the term is not "property"—as in something "physical"—it is "intellectual property". The idea of something. When you by a book, again, it is a printout, the book, you have paid for. You've not parlayed nor paid for the RIGHT to use and repurpose the contents of that book as your own.

      Because frankly in today's society, that would probably start in the neighborhood of tens of thousands of dollars. Low End.

      The only reason why most fanfic writers and artists can get away with their fan works is because they don't try to make a profit from it. The moment you do, you're "poking the bear", running the risk it will rise up and swat you.

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    • SaitamaBro wrote: I know i have nothing to do with your way of life, but my DVDs and my books are not inside me.

      I want to put all my DVDs and BDs on my computer. Who doesn't want their films in their minds 24/7?

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    • Here's an analogy:  You own a building and rent it out.partially furnished.  The tenant decides to do some redecorating—nothing permanent or damaging; they just rearrange the furniture, hang some new curtains, and do a few other superficial temporary things that they think suit the place.  Sure, you're probably entirely within your rights to find some half-assed excuse or another to kick the tenant out if you don't approve of the result...but if you were to do that, much less try to sue them for vandalism or property damage, that would be decidedly petty and unethical of you.  And they're entirely within their rights to warn others about your pettiness and lack of ethics.

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    • Which is where contractual Leases come in which outline and define what each side can and or cannot do.

      A poor analogy for IP Rights and Copyright Laws, even if you feel it a suitable variation of my "home" from before.

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    • Love Robin wrote:
      Which is where contractual Leases come in which outline and define what each side can and or cannot do.

      Cool excuse. Still petty and unethical.  (I refer both to using superficial redecoration as an excuse to punish a tenant when there was no such proviso in the lease, and to drawing up a contract that forbids anything so innocuous to begin with.)

      A poor analogy for IP Rights and Copyright Laws, even if you feel it a suitable variation of my "home" from before.

      And you compared something harmless—which it's actually in a creator's best interest, from a professional standpoint, to ignore—to doing tangible damage to someone's house.  I'm gonna consider the source.

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    • Not really. A lease stipulates what both Tenant and Landlord can and cannot do. There is also a series of oversight laws (in America) where a civil adjudicator or court can determine if there are any basic violations to basic tenant rights. A lease can be adjudged as illegal. But then, so can the actions of a tenant.

      But forgoing that set of Real World complications, the difference between your tenant analogy and my visitor analogy is one of both ownership and contractual agreements. Visitors do not have such coverage, so what they do to your property has no legal rights covering their actions.

      And that is the closest to what Copyright and Infringement Laws are concerning IPs.

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    • Love Robin wrote:
      Not really. A lease stipulates what both Tenant and Landlord can and cannot do. There is also a series of oversight laws (in America) where a civil adjudicator or court can determine if there are any basic violations to basic tenant rights. A lease can be adjudged as illegal. But then, so can the actions of a tenant.

      Okay, but comparing something with no actual impact to vandalizing a house is still a false equivalence.  And not only do I highly doubt that minor, superficial redecoration would be adjudged as illegal, but I also highly doubt that any lease that forbade such wouldn't be.

      But forgoing that set of Real World complications, the difference between your tenant analogy and my visitor analogy is one of both ownership and contractual agreements. Visitors do not have such coverage, so what they do to your property has no legal rights covering their actions.

      And that is the closest to what Copyright and Infringement Laws are concerning IPs.

      This is just the "fan as passive consumer" argument with the analogy about visitors and vandals (which, quite frankly, fell flat on multiple levels to begin with) spliced in to obfuscate matters.  Yes, one can exploit copyright law (in a manner frankly reminiscent of the Gabonaise fable of the stray dog and the stolen scent) in order to intimidate fans into remaining passive consumers (after all, while fair-use laws as they currently stand should—at least in spirit—technically protect fanfic, there is still debate over it for some reason); it's still petty and unethical. 

      It's just that some creators would rather be petty and unethical, and exploit the letter of the law in order to punish fans over something that's no skin off of the creator's nose, than act like professionals and leave well enough alone.

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    • Well, agreed that suing fans for fanworks is petty, especially those not seeking to profit from them. But the legal system still supports those who wish to do so. At least currently.

      And face it, (American) Law and Common Sense and Ethicality do not often meet eye-to-eye.

      Frankly, I wish I could do more with my fanfics. I'd love to market/publish some of mine.

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    • Love Robin wrote:
      Well, agreed that suing fans for fanworks is petty, especially those not seeking to profit from them. But the legal system still supports those who wish to do so. At least currently.

      And face it, (American) Law and Common Sense and Ethicality do not often meet eye-to-eye.

      Frankly, I wish I could do more with my fanfics. I'd love to market/publish some of mine.

      The thing is?  Not only am I uncertain that the outcome would really be that easy to predict (see: the case of the "parody" that I mentioned earlier; while some compromising happened, it was decided in favor of the derivation's author), but I'm not sure anyone ever has actually been sued for writing fanfic for non-commercial purposes (the author of the "parody" was selling her book).  There have just been a few creators (read: speculative fiction authors, an oddly high percentage of whom are massive hypocrites for holding such a position) who have threatened it (and fans who don't want to chance it).  And there are also groups willing to take on the defense of any fan who hypothetically ended up in that position, on the grounds that fanfic already meets fair-use criteria (again: it does) and should be protected as such.

      No argument in regards to American law versus ethics or common sense.  At all.

      As for publishing fanfic?  I really couldn't care less about that.  As far as I'm concerned, that's not the purpose of fanfic.  (Now, if the original creators approached me, that'd be another matter.  But in that case, I think it'd have graduated from being fanfic to being ascended fanon.)

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    • Agreed. All points.

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    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      I know i have nothing to do with your way of life, but my DVDs and my books are not inside me.

      The DVDs and books are physical property, clearly. The intellectual property is where? Consider this: from my apple orchard, I sell you an apple. You eat the apple. Do I have still a right to the ownership of that apple?

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    • Apples. Nope, that is a form of consumption which is all part and parcel of the physical product's cost. Though you still maintain the right to continue to sell at that spot.

      DVDs and Books are physical. What they contain and deliver, the *ideas* remain the intellectual property of creators. You're allowed to make limited copies. You're not allowed to resell them (unlike apples, you can buy and then resell to others).

      See, what you buy when you pay for a book or DVD is simply that physical thing. When a filmmaker wishes to make a film adaptation of a book, they go into negotiations where the price of Rights is deliberated and reached. Contracts are drawn up. Limitations are determined. And the filmmaker pays out money on the order of Tens through Hundreds of thousands of dollars. It can even reach millions, and may include percentages of proceeds FOR YEARS to come.

      Do you really think you laying out 4.95 to upwards of 49.95 or more for a book grants you anywhere near the same Rights?? No.

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    • Yet...where is the intellectual property?

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    • Under the creative's ownership.

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    • Love Robin wrote:
      When a filmmaker wishes to make a film adaptation of a book, they go into negotiations where the price of Rights is deliberated and reached. Contracts are drawn up. Limitations are determined.

      Something that is not too obvious about film rights: it grants a filmmaker the right to copy elements of the work into a film adaptation, but it does not obligate the filmmaker to copy any particular elements in the film. If you make a film that closely resembles an existing work (even after you changed the names, places and stuff), the copyright owner can still sue your ass off. Case in point: Shia LaBeouf's Howard Cantour.com was a blatant rip-off of Daniel Clowes' comic "Justin M. Damian".[1] More recent example: Star Trek crowdfunded fanfilm is being sued because it resembles to closely with the copyrighted material.[2]

      OTOH, many Neon Genesis Evangelion (NGE) fans "know" that Pacific Rim rips off NGE, but there are enough changes and the filmmakers can argue "plausible deniability" of any knowledge of NGE material. Fifty Shades of Grey is another interesting case. It was originally a Twilight fanfic, but the author later reworked it to remove key elements of Twilight IP and kept her original material intact. The filmmaker had to buy rights for her (instead of Stephanie Meyer) and her film adaptation whips up money at the box office.

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    • OTOH, many Neon Genesis Evangelion (NGE) fans "know" that Pacific Rim rips off NGE, but there are enough changes and the filmmakers can argue "plausible deniability" of any knowledge of NGE material. Fifty Shades of Grey is another interesting case. It was originally a Twilight fanfic, but the author later reworked it to remove key elements of Twilight IP and kept her original material intact. The filmmaker had to buy rights for her (instead of Stephanie Meyer) and her film adaptation whips up money at the box office.

      You just had to put NGE in this, didn't you?

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    • ^ I have been following live-action NGE development hell since it was announced 2003.[1] ADV acquired the movie rights from GAINAX in February 2003 with option to own after 7 years but it didn't work out.[2]

      • In February of 2003, ADV and Gainax both signed a Film Option and Purchase agreement. The agreement allowed for "the possible development, production, financing and exploitation of at least three (3) live-action theatrical motion pictures, five (5) television programs and three (3) direct-to-video movies products (each, a “Project”)."

      I figure that all the development work on NGE (scripts, storyboards, fight sequences) must have been reworked into Pacific Rim. Why let all that effort go to waste?

      Anywho, we can talk more on my wall or something. This thread is supposed to be about a possible fifth Korra book.

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    • Slaphappyjoy wrote:
      SaitamaBro wrote:
      I know i have nothing to do with your way of life, but my DVDs and my books are not inside me.
      The DVDs and books are physical property, clearly. The intellectual property is where? Consider this: from my apple orchard, I sell you an apple. You eat the apple. Do I have still a right to the ownership of that apple?

      Do i have the right to your apple tree?

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    • Not unless you ask for permission!

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    • One of the ideas I've seen mentioned more than once on this thread thus far is the restoration of the Northern Air Temple. Regarding the Air Temples, I've been curious as to why they where built where they were. In season 2, when trying to find a place for Korra to enter the spirit world at the Eastern Air Temple Jinora's spirit friends led them to the meditation circle. Tenzin at first felt this was strange as historically the place with the strongest spiritual energy was the temple, but this has led me to believe that there was something inherently spiritual about the location. By extension this would apply to the other temples being built where they were, and if the NAT were restored I would want to see this addressed.

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    • Gilgamesh777 wrote: One of the ideas I've seen mentioned more than once on this thread thus far is the restoration of the Northern Air Temple. Regarding the Air Temples, I've been curious as to why they where built where they were. In season 2, when trying to find a place for Korra to enter the spirit world at the Eastern Air Temple Jinora's spirit friends led them to the meditation circle. Tenzin at first felt this was strange as historically the place with the strongest spiritual energy was the temple, but this has led me to believe that there was something inherently spiritual about the location. By extension this would apply to the other temples being built where they were, and if the NAT were restored I would want to see this addressed.

      According to the creators, they were built based on the compass and its directional aides.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      Gilgamesh777 wrote: One of the ideas I've seen mentioned more than once on this thread thus far is the restoration of the Northern Air Temple. Regarding the Air Temples, I've been curious as to why they where built where they were. In season 2, when trying to find a place for Korra to enter the spirit world at the Eastern Air Temple Jinora's spirit friends led them to the meditation circle. Tenzin at first felt this was strange as historically the place with the strongest spiritual energy was the temple, but this has led me to believe that there was something inherently spiritual about the location. By extension this would apply to the other temples being built where they were, and if the NAT were restored I would want to see this addressed.

      According to the creators, they were built based on the compass and its directional aides.

      Really? Is there a specific article or interview they mention it in?

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    • North, NAT, South, SAT, West, WAT, East, EAT.

      Republic City, ATI.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      Not unless you ask for permission!


      Exactly.

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    • Gilgamesh777
      Gilgamesh777 removed this reply because:
      I meant to add a quote with it.
      03:46, March 18, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Aggression25 wrote: North, NAT, South, SAT, West, WAT, East, EAT.

      Republic City, ATI.

      Well obviously I realize that, but I'm wondering if the ancient Air Nomads built the EAT at that specific point in eastern direction because the specific area might be inherently strong with spiritual energy. I suspect this because the meditation circle near the EAT had stronger spiritual energy than the temple even though it had been neglected for some time, and this suggests there is something inherently spiritually powerful about the site. If the spot where the circle would eventually be built was some sort of focal point of spiritual energy than it would make sense to build their dwelling point nearby (so as to be better in touch with the spirit world).

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    • It might not have anything to do with any spiritual energies at where the temples were built. They were just built where they could be isolated, where no one could go unless invited by an Air Nomad. The spirituality comes from the past members that perished and their spiritual energies saturated the land.

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    • Might not.

      But might.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      It might not have anything to do with any spiritual energies at where the temples were built. They were just built where they could be isolated, where no one could go unless invited by an Air Nomad. The spirituality comes from the past members that perished and their spiritual energies saturated the land.

      But if that were the case, shouldn't the strongest source of spiritual energy still be the temple as it had seen the most spiritual traffic?

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    • There are really so many possible explanations. Maybe the spirituality "dried up" when the worship of the airbenders ceased due to them dying. Maybe they built the temples there due to the spirituality of the area, but it naturally shifts over time, possibly related to the upcoming Harmonic Convergence. Perhaps the meditation circle had reserves of spirituality from the practices of ancient airbenders, or absorbed spiritual energy over time. Or maybe the fact that the bat spirits were hibernating there was the only reason that the spirit energy of the meditation circle was so high.

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    • In the words of Gabriel from the live action Witchblade series, "Every question has many answers."

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    • There's also such a thing as unanswerable questions.

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    • Or merely questions that have yet to be answered.

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    • But until those questions are answered, they're unanswerable.

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    • If you say so.

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    • There will always be unanswerable questions. We can't have all the answers to everything we ask.

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    • Gilgamesh777 wrote:
      One of the ideas I've seen mentioned more than once on this thread thus far is the restoration of the Northern Air Temple. Regarding the Air Temples, I've been curious as to why they where built where they were. In season 2, when trying to find a place for Korra to enter the spirit world at the Eastern Air Temple Jinora's spirit friends led them to the meditation circle. Tenzin at first felt this was strange as historically the place with the strongest spiritual energy was the temple, but this has led me to believe that there was something inherently spiritual about the location. By extension this would apply to the other temples being built where they were, and if the NAT were restored I would want to see this addressed.

      Seemed like the idea was that a natural setting was a better way to connect to the spirit world, and by extension spirituality, than any man-made setting. 

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    • Some would say that mountainous areas are more spiritual due to possessing energy that flows from them and nourishes the land around them.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      Some would say that mountainous areas are more spiritual due to possessing energy that flows from them and nourishes the land around them.

      It could be, but whatever the location, lush vegetation seems to be very important.

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    • Look at FMA. They say that in Brotherhood and the original manga, the Xing people that use alchemy draw power from the planet's chi, which is what comes from the mountains and passes the land around them.

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    • They could do some potentially cool stuff with points of chi, ley lines, or other things like geoglyphs.

      It's been a few years since I've read FMA, but it seemed like the idea was introduce a natural form of alchemy (Xing alchemy) versus an unnatural form of it with state/military alchemy. It had more emphasis on forms of energy?

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    • Did someone call for me?

      It's not the Amestrian Alchemy itself that was unnatural, it was the fact that Father had pumped Philosophers Stones throughout the city (if not the country). This meant that the alchemists were not drawing the proper amount of energy from tectonic forces--only what Father would allow through, hence how he could occasionally "turn off" alchemy. Once the Philosophers Stones were neutralized with an opposing alchemic energy current, the Alchemists became more powerful.

      Xingese Alchemy (Alkahestry) was not affected by this, since it uses chi. It's not immediately clear what exactly "chi" is in the context of Fullmetal Alchemist, or whether it is mystical or natural; the only clue we're given is that it's "energy that flows across the planet's surface."

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    • Chi is like a spiritual or metaphysical energy that exists around us. In the ground, in the trees, in the air, in the water, everywhere. In Asian culture and so on, it's found in the mountains and nourishes the land as it passes.

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    • "...in the context of Fullmetal Alchemist...."

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    • Wel, you can basically say that the chinese concept of qi is the same as the Dragon Pulse since they are both basically energy that flows through the world lke blood.

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    • That doesn't specifically tell us where the energy comes from, unlike the very explicit reference to Amestrian alchemy being powered by tectonic plates.

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    • The energy is everywhere, it flows throughout the whole world, it's life energy. It's literally the same thing as qi in the chinese, so basically it comes from anywhere since everything is made of energy. This may also be the case with our universe, i think some scientists said the universe is completely made of energy.

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    • Okay, okay, I checked the FMA Wiki, & it seems it probably is just "magic." Bah. Add that to the list of reasons why I prefer the 2003 anime.

      As far as the universe goes, the vacuum of space has energy, & matter has an energy equivalent, but I don't understand that stuff very well.

      I think that's sort of what the eastern philosophers were suggesting, but also not. It is correct to say that breath leads to "life energy," but not in any soul kind of way. Of course, Feng Shui is entirely unfounded, & they had no apparent concept of an "energy vacuum" or "mass-energy equivalent," etc. But the basic observation that all phenomena in nature are linked by the exchange of energy is pretty spot-on.

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    • Alchemy is a blend between science, art and mysticism. Like Avatar, it's doing something physical with the magic.

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    • The manga is far too weighted to the "magic" side as far as I am concerned. The premise that alchemy appeared magical, but actually was not, was what made Fullmetal Alchemist unique.

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    • At least one type of magic. And i liked it because of all the rules alchemy had.

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    • Clarke's third law?

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    • Yeah, but it really is more like magic than science. At least from our own understanding of magic.

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    • Magic nowadays is so muddled by the various forms and universes that use it. Maybe I've seen watching/reading too things. : /

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    • According to Clarke's third law, any form of advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Making a piece of crystal grow to titanic proportions by mystical means when all you're doing is manipulating its ability to replicate its properties.

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    • It's DnD's Eberron all over again!

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    • HUH?!

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      HUH?!

      D&D setting that got made because its creator won a contest.  It was a big base-breaker on account of having a lot of magitek (up to and including magitek robots as a playable race).

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    • For me, D&D stands for Dungeons and Dragons. With Avatar, I know CGI and the artwork, but the rest is confusing enough.

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    • Well, let's turn back to the topic then. For a "fifth" book or the new comic series, I'd like spirits and the compatability with humans issue be front and center. We spent the last three and a half years, universe-wise, with these guys either in the background, dealing with a very small number of humans (I can only recall four), and otherwise a minor deal. 

      Oh and to have some non-pokemon spirits. OR at least have a plot thread about people capturing and using them in underground fights. :p

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    • Indeed. Regarding the spirits, I would like to see further examples of technology that involve spiritual energy (like the spirit cannon).

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      For me, D&D stands for Dungeons and Dragons. With Avatar, I know CGI and the artwork, but the rest is confusing enough.

      I was talking about Dungeons and Dragons.  Eberron was introduced when the revised 3rd Edition was the new big thing.

      Kubernes wrote:
      Oh and to have some non-pokemon spirits. OR at least have a plot thread about people capturing and using them in underground fights. :p

      I'm really not sure if you're arguing that spirits have been somehow framed as Pokémon (which...really doesn't add up) and that there needs to be less of that, or are arguing in favor of a plotline happening in which spirits get treated like Pokémon (possibly unwillingly, in which case Korra has to stop it).

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    • The Pokemon aspect just refers to the look of most of the spirits that show up after the portals are open: relatively cute and non-threatening. Sort of an over emphasis on the spirits not being bad things instead of really doing something with the topic. The joke being that some group does the pokemon/spirit battle thing. You know, because humans are the baddies.

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    • Gilgamesh777 wrote: Indeed. Regarding the spirits, I would like to see further examples of technology that involve spiritual energy (like the spirit cannon).

      How about cars that can run off of spiritual energy?

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    • I would like to see a organization out of energy benders while another one are benders in general and the last one are normals who use weapons and martial arts,


      The story shouldnt be with korra but the next avatar, this time it is a earth controller who must learn to master water and calm evil spirits, and not romance BS, i would like to see a serious guy who actially only has training and fighting in his mind, and with a muscle packed body he would be a lot more different than the previous two, unfortunatly tue current situation requires talking and not fighting, the next avatar must sopve his problems with words but would rather like to use his fists,


      And after the second book where he came close enough to a peace between everyone, the next evil shows up, The Dark Avatar, he wants the world destroyed, now a rwo season long battle between good and evil happens with the world as a bet :D


      I would totally love this setting :)

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    • For a Dark Avatar to show up, Vaatu would have to have regained sufficient strength to be able to influence things, so you're talking several thousand years after Korra in order for this to be plausible - I would say an absolute minimum of five thousand, and probably closer to seven or eight - remember, it's going to take ten thousand years for Vaatu to regain the strength he had as of Book 2, since he was defeated and destroyed during Harmonic Convergence.

      Also, the OP question was specifically about a Fifth Korra book, so a fifth story featuring LoK's cast. As to that question, I'll have to give it some thought, but here's a few comments...

      What I definitely would NOT want is for a hypothetical Book 5 to end up rehashing stuff that's already been covered in the series. So for example while the Red Lotus as an organization could make an interesting potential antagonist, how it's handled needs to be distinctly different from Zaheer & friends and how they were running around killing dudes and looking for the Avatar. And we don't need to see Zaheer again, either. Let him rot in jail where he belongs.

      Also, I'd have to say that I am perfectly happy with the past lives being gone, and don't want to see that change. 

      I think that some people are massively overestimating the usefulness of the "past lives", for one, and for another thing I think it's something that is way too easy to use as a cheap crutch to avoid having to go through the effort of resolving a conflict the normal way.

      The way I look at it, Korra is the first Avatar of an entirely new Avatar Cycle, and she doesn't NEED the past lives anyway - since even when they were there, not even Aang relied on them all that much; He only ever consulted two or three of them, and of those the only one he consulted more than once was Roku(apart from the single instance of Kyoshi turning up in Avatar Day). And even with Roku, most of the time Aang didn't take his advice anyway.

      As far as what I would like to see, there are a few things:

      1. A little bit about the recovery from Book 4 and the Earth Nation transition from a monarchy to a constitutional republic or a democracy. I would think that they'd go with something similar to how the USA government was set up, with a global Federal government of elected representatives from each smaller "state"(such as Zhaofu and Omashu), governing the country as a whole, but domestic affairs of each state are left up to the individual states.

      2. Even more than the above, what I desperately would want to see is more of the Fire Nation, Fire Lord Izumi, and in particular Iroh 2.0 getting to do stuff. 

      3. Non-invasive applications of spirit energy technology as a power source(if possible) could be interesting, I think, but would have to be handled very carefully. You could have a situation where someone tries to use it to make weapons again, and the Avatar and some others would be opposed to military use of the technology.

      4. More Korrasami (obviously :P )

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    • 4. Obviously.

      3. Harvest seeds and fruits from spirit plants. These parts of plants are *expected* by the organism to be divested from the parent and consumed. Being non-invasive means the spirit plants would not react negatively, and all can be in harmony.
      3a. I'd like to see Asami develop, mainly for herself, a Rocketeer-style aero-aquadyne "rocket" pack (project Turtledove). Her action outfit is so much like Cliff Secord's (The Rocketeer) that it would make from great visuals. Only give her a pro-bending helmet so her hair and face are free and visible.

      2. Introduce Iroh's sister. Perhaps she's gone missing and everyone jumps to she's been taken. So Team Avatar is called, or volunteers their help, to aid in finding her. Spoiler: she simply went walkabout to learn more about the nation by posing as one of the citizenry. Doesn't mean she can't fall into trouble and intrigue…
      2a. IF she must "bend", I'd rather she be weak and unassuming. Not so much firebend as heat-bending. She take something to just shy of its combustion or melting point. Don't need to "break past" that limiter either. Makes her a more cunning and strategic thinker better suited for eventually sitting on the throne.
      2aa. Interesting thing about heatbending is also making things cold, so it appears she has a dual-element ability, allowing for some interesting "mythos" about her to spring up concerning her.

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    • I think you could bring back some topics/organizations featured in previous book if they done differently or presented in a different light. For example, a repentant chi blocker who became an air bender, actually doing something with that FN/WT people in the EN plot threat, triads with air benders, and so on. These seem like they would continue to be minor plot threads rather than being a primary focus.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:

      Gilgamesh777 wrote: Indeed. Regarding the spirits, I would like to see further examples of technology that involve spiritual energy (like the spirit cannon).

      How about cars that can run off of spiritual energy?

      That is an interesting idea, and it would tie in with Varrick' s original purpose of using the vines as an unlimited source of clean energy. However, the number of spirit vines currently in existence is limited, and so this would inhibit a majority of the population from having access to this energy. Maybe a form of technology for growing spirit vines could be developed.

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    • That, too.

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    • How have I gone this long without saying, "Calm down, President Shinra"?

      To be somewhat on topic, I think that kind of technology is still at least a decade off. At this time, the amount of machinery that they need to actually obtain energy from Spirit Vines is massive. The cars would have to be too big to be practical.

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    • Or there can be a law that states that Energybending is practiced by the Air Acolytes.

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    • ...What? The Air Acolytes can't Energybend. It's an ability unique to the Lion Turtles & the Avatar.

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    • With only one known exception so far, The Air Acolytes can't bend at all.

      The Acolytes are non-benders who were taught about the heritage and history of the original Air Nomads, and who work to preserve that heritage as well as the Air Temples. 

      As for energybending, as NB has stated that is an ability that is the exclusive province of lion turtles(which are basically extinct) and the Avatar.

      As for Iroh's sister, I think I prefer the idea of her being a nonbender, simply because it introduces an interesting sibling dynamic, with an elder sibling - Iroh - who is a highly skilled firebender, and a younger - this hypothetical sister - who is a nonbender, and has to learn to fight through more traditional means. It's something we haven't really seen other than Katara and Sokka back in ATLA, and I think that it's always an idea worth exploring. 

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    • Gilgamesh777 wrote:
      Aggression25 wrote:

      Gilgamesh777 wrote: Indeed. Regarding the spirits, I would like to see further examples of technology that involve spiritual energy (like the spirit cannon).

      How about cars that can run off of spiritual energy?
      That is an interesting idea, and it would tie in with Varrick' s original purpose of using the vines as an unlimited source of clean energy. However, the number of spirit vines currently in existence is limited, and so this would inhibit a majority of the population from having access to this energy. Maybe a form of technology for growing spirit vines could be developed.

      The problem with that thread is two major things. The first is Kuvira's colossus. Any opponent to spiritual energy is going to point to that. You can also point to the fact that the energy released by the Varrick experiment and Kurvira's spirit gun is essentially negative energy Narratively, it was presented negatively too with its color and sound effect being very similar to Vaatu's energy beam.

      The second problem is the power source: spirits. Remember that those vines are supposed to be one and the same as spirits. Using a spirit or any living thing as a battery feels wrong to me. Also, those vines didn't take kindly to being harvested.

      @DrachenRitter42: It's too bad that the air acolytes have been essentially written out by the end of LoK. In addition, Aggression25 is saying there can be a law that states these guys could be energybenders. I suppose to balance out regular benders?

      With the sister, I wouldn't mind either way if the character is well written. We could be lead to believe that she isn't a bender until later on to show how different she is compared to someone like Korra or Iroh II. But there are a whole multitude of different angles she could be played.

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      Gilgamesh777 wrote:
      Aggression25 wrote:

      Gilgamesh777 wrote: Indeed. Regarding the spirits, I would like to see further examples of technology that involve spiritual energy (like the spirit cannon).

      How about cars that can run off of spiritual energy?
      That is an interesting idea, and it would tie in with Varrick' s original purpose of using the vines as an unlimited source of clean energy. However, the number of spirit vines currently in existence is limited, and so this would inhibit a majority of the population from having access to this energy. Maybe a form of technology for growing spirit vines could be developed.
      The problem with that thread is two major things. The first is Kuvira's colossus. Any opponent to spiritual energy is going to point to that. You can also point to the fact that the energy released by the Varrick experiment and Kurvira's spirit gun is essentially negative energy Narratively, it was presented negatively too with its color and sound effect being very similar to Vaatu's energy beam.

      The second problem is the power source: spirits. Remember that those vines are supposed to be one and the same as spirits. Using a spirit or any living thing as a battery feels wrong to me. Also, those vines didn't take kindly to being harvested.

      That might tie in with the creators of the show trying to make the spirit vine cannon seem like the Avatar world's equivalent of a nuclear bomb. It has tremendous potential as a weapon, but also negative side effects (radiation). Tying in with this, using the vines as a source of energy could potentially destroy said spirits or weaken the connection between the two worlds. However, even with nuclear energy scientists have found a way to productively create energy that will be viable in a few years (nuclear fusion). That being said, as long as a way to use spirit vines in a non-damaging way could be discovered then I don't think there would be much need for concern.

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    • Harvest seeds and fruits from the spirit vines and other plants. These are parts of the organism which it expects to be divested from the parent and consumed. There should be no negative reactions so long as not all of them are harvested for spirit energy. Be sure to return a suitable portion back into the "spirit 'circle of life' ecology" and everything should be copacetic.

      The rest of the sentient and sapient spirits would probably not care so long as weaponry is not the goal.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: ...What? The Air Acolytes can't Energybend. It's an ability unique to the Lion Turtles & the Avatar.

      Korra can grant them the ability and knowledge, ensuring that other benders can regain their bending if taken from them in a similar situation like with Amon.

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    • Love Robin wrote:
      Harvest seeds and fruits from the spirit vines and other plants. These are parts of the organism which it expects to be divested from the parent and consumed. There should be no negative reactions so long as not all of them are harvested for spirit energy. Be sure to return a suitable portion back into the "spirit 'circle of life' ecology" and everything should be copacetic.

      The rest of the sentient and sapient spirits would probably not care so long as weaponry is not the goal.

      So, the spirit vines create a new form of life/non-life for humans to use? It solves the problem that the vines wouldn't really want to be harvested. You'd have to create some story surrounding the situation. Doable.

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    • Kubernes wrote:

      Love Robin wrote:
      Harvest seeds and fruits from the spirit vines and other plants. These are parts of the organism which it expects to be divested from the parent and consumed. There should be no negative reactions so long as not all of them are harvested for spirit energy. Be sure to return a suitable portion back into the "spirit 'circle of life' ecology" and everything should be copacetic.

      The rest of the sentient and sapient spirits would probably not care so long as weaponry is not the goal.

      So, the spirit vines create a new form of life/non-life for humans to use? It solves the problem that the vines wouldn't really want to be harvested. You'd have to create some story surrounding the situation. Doable.

      Most plant life have seeds/fruit, even if inedible by humans. No reason to think spirit plants don't. In addition, spirit vines are not the only spirit vegetation. Most prevalent in the RC, but certainly not the only ones. There are bound to be others which small groups travelling through the RC portal could, with the guidance of the Avatar and willing spirits, locate and harness.

      What is gathered do not necessarily have to have the same energy yield as spirit vine "clippings", but certainly Sato Industries could test to see if there is enough to power a satomobile engine.

      Or, y'knau, the "Project Turtledove"™©®℗ aerohydrodyne™©®℗ to be strapped to Asami's back…

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    • First, they would have to create some need for seeds or fruit. Right now, there's only a negative appearance of spirit energy and I don't see why the spirits would let an extension of themselves be used like that. Can be overcome but problematic.

      Not quite certain why spirit "plants" would need to create seeds or fruit. Additionally, spirits and spirit vines are essentially one and the same and adds another problematic layer to the issue.

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    • While the "spirit analog", what we've seen of the spirit world is they fill the same ecological niche that material world plants do. There are vines, and trees, and grass, and all sorts of spirit plant life as varied as we know in the spirit world.

      Vaatu was imprisoned in an old gnarled spirit tree. That spider-spirit which webbed up Tenzin, Kya, and Bumi and was dragging them to the valley of forgetfulness lived in a spirit tree. The spirit world meadow that Korra and Kuvira appeared in on the other side of the new RC portal was filled with all sorts of plants.

      Everyone gets stuck on "Vines" due to them being the most prevalent and largest spirit plant which took root in RC.

      Now while I'm sure there are some spirits which look like "plants", and probably able to pick themselves up and walk to new places, most plants will be just that, plants. With need to propagate themselves as well as there being spirits needing to feed on them.

      Not to mention that there are bound to be plants in the spirit realm which originated in the material, carried through the portals waaaaay back before Wan closed them. But after 10K years are probably just as imbued with spirit energy as anything native to there.

      Now, even ascribing to these plants a "higher self-awareness" due to be spirit-analogs of material plants, each organism must be just as prepared for parts of itself to be separated from the main body as material plants are. Consider the "flowers" worn by some of the spirits at the "wedding" spirit-Iroh attended. Apparently there was no objection to that part of spirit plants being used is such a fashion.

      What is fruit? A distribution system for seeds. Whether simply falling off to roll a short distance to decay and compost for the seeds they contain to germinate and grow, or to be consumed by animals to wander a farther distance and be pooped out to grow, etc, the parent organism *expects*, indeed counts on divesting these parts. And not forgetting the windborne type of seeds.

      Nor does it expect 100% success with each seed cast out. Otherwise plants would produce far fewer seeds and fruits else risk being choked out from an overgrowth of their own kind. So they produce an overabundance of what is needed to propagate themselves.

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    • What about whatever happened to the Foggy Swamp Tribe? Whatever happened to them?

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    • Aggression25 wrote: What about whatever happened to the Foggy Swamp Tribe? Whatever happened to them?

      When Kuvira harvested the spirit vines she ordered her soldiers to do so until there was nothing left. This suggests she destroyed the Banyan Grove, and by extension the swamp. Whether or not the tribe stayed or left is unknown. However, regarding my previous statement about someone devising a method of growing spirit vines, maybe said person could use that knowledge to restore the swamp.

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    • I'm not going to believe that she managed to harvest the entire swamp until I see it.

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    • Maybe we'll see it when the korra comic comes out. 

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    • So many questions, not enough answers.

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    • Gilgamesh777 wrote:

      Aggression25 wrote: What about whatever happened to the Foggy Swamp Tribe? Whatever happened to them?

      When Kuvira harvested the spirit vines she ordered her soldiers to do so until there was nothing left. This suggests she destroyed the Banyan Grove, and by extension the swamp. Whether or not the tribe stayed or left is unknown. However, regarding my previous statement about someone devising a method of growing spirit vines, maybe said person could use that knowledge to restore the swamp.

      The Banyan tree would be difficult to replace but you could just do what Korra mistakenly did in book 3: use spirit bending on existing spirit vines to encourage growth. 

      Now, the act of needing to resolve the whole missing spirit swamp and its ramifications would be a potential story arc. It could even force Korra to do more spiritual stuff than just knocking people around. Could be some good stuff.

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    • An Earth Kingdom woman maiming a part of her own homeland? The spirits ain't going to forgive her. No siree.

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    • Aggression25 wrote:
      An Earth Kingdom woman maiming a part of her own homeland? The spirits ain't going to forgive her. No siree.

      I doubt Kuvira would make an appearance so it wouldn't matter in that regard. You might get some angry spirits at Korra for not doing something before or some other excuse for an action scene.

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    • In the show, we have only seen light/order versus darkness/anarchy in the roles of good and evil. I wish we could see that light and darkness aren't inheretly good or evil

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    • ZanarNaryon wrote:
      In the show, we have only seen light/order versus darkness/anarchy in the roles of good and evil. I wish we could see that light and darkness aren't inheretly good or evil

      You mean like having a villain protagonist?

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    • What we've seen are either the personifications of light vs dark in Raava vs Vaatu, or used by people aligned to good vs evil.

      We've not explored the concept that Light or Dark energies are by their natures Good or Evil. Like Tools. "Dark doesn't kill people, people kill people", etc. That no matter what, Light can be dangerous used carelessly but Dark can save lives when used with care.

      Actually an interesting concept. Sort of like bloodbending may have its uses, such as if selectively and carefully used by healers for healing. Or when Katara used it to save her friends.

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    • Slaphappyjoy wrote:
      ZanarNaryon wrote:
      In the show, we have only seen light/order versus darkness/anarchy in the roles of good and evil. I wish we could see that light and darkness aren't inheretly good or evil
      You mean like having a villain protagonist?

      But he would still be evil.

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    • A villainous protagonist would be considered an antihero, someone that, while technically on the wrong side of the line, has some morality. Opposite of an antivillain.

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    • No, he would still be a villain. An antihero is not on the wrong side of the line, he is in the right side of the line, but his actions are morally dubious. Think Punisher and Wolverine, both save people and beat the bad guys, but they are also willing to go the extra mile to achive this result. Basically he doesn't have any characteristic we're used to see in a hero, but he still ends up doing the right thing. In ATLA, Jet is a good example. He fights the FN, but he also tries to kill a whole village. He feeds people, but he does that by stealing.

      A villain protagonist is a villain, an antihero protagonist is an antihero, and a hero protagonist is a hero. If anything, a villain protagonist would be an antivillain[i'm just going by your logic, in reality he wouldn't since we already stablished him as a villain protagonist], since an antivillain is a guy who does evil things to achieve a basically good goal[like Ozymandias, kill millions to save billions]. In ATLA the first i can think of is Sozin, he started the 100 years war, but he did it because he wanted to share the FN's prosperity. You can also count most of LOK's antagonists.

      But then you might think, what is the difference between a villain, an antivillain and an antihero?  Well, the villain does evil things to achieve evil results[Ozai, conquer everything for powers sake, unlike his grandfather], the antivillain does evil things to achieve results he believes are good for humanity or another group of people[Zaheer killed rulers so people would have freedom from their dictatorial regimes], and the antihero does morally dubious things[not exactly evil, it depends on who you ask] and doesn't have the good natured, honest, willing to help everyone attitude most heroes do.

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    • Pretty much exactly what Saitama said. A villain protagonist is when the story follows the villain, an antihero is when the hero isn't necessarily a very virtuous person but isn't quite the villain, & an antivillain is a villain who has noble goals.

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    • I think the series wrapped up quite nicely. I was kind of annoyed that there even was a fourth season, but I guess it was because the other three seasons were rather short and didn't quite reach the standards that they were held to. 

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    • We seriously need more Avatar and Avatars! Past and future!

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Pretty much exactly what Saitama said. A villain protagonist is when the story follows the villain, an antihero is when the hero isn't necessarily a very virtuous person but isn't quite the villain, & an antivillain is a villain who has noble goals.

      Or to give examples?

      Alex from A Clockwork Orange is a villain protagonist.  A:TLA-era Zuko is an antihero.  Any given one of the Red Lotus ops is an antivillain.

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    • I thought about giving examples, but then I thought it would confuse people if they weren't familiar with them. So I thought of using all examples from Avatar, but it doesn't have any very good examples of villain protagonists. The closest thing I could think of was Book 1 Zuko.

      Though as long as we're naming names, for villain protagonist I tend to think of "Death Note's" Light Yagami, Xykon in his prequel story for "Order of the Stick," or most of the casts of sprite-based webcomics, frankly. As for antiheroes & antivillains...look, throw a rock in the general direction of anime or comic books, & you're probably going to hit something rife with examples.

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    • For an antihero, what about a Deadpool-like airbender?

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