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  • Hey guys, I just binge watched books 3 and 4 and I can't seam to find peace at all in terms of Korra's sexual preference. Let me explain. In books 1 and 2, she was straight, In book 3, you couldn't really tell she was a lesbian, but in book four, it become pretty evident. Is it possible to being lesbian since it didn't work out with Mako? How could she be straight then turn lesbian, not that I'm against it, good for her! I just need some closure.

    Also, in the series, they never show the communites, parents, and character's responses to the Korrasami relationship...

    Also, this is in the 1920's setting, I don't think people accepted this back in the day in the real world, just thought I'd put it out there.

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    • Korra could be bisexual. 

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    • I guess, but it seems forced just so bryke can get more publicity. Seems more of a stunt to me than an actual story build up...

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    • Korra could definately be bisexual because of how she blushed when commented about the hair.

      That raised the flag for me (not that there's anything wrong with that).

      But what I want is closure on how/where/when asami showed ANY if at all signs of being more than just a very good best friend. I mean maybe a blush back to korra's compliment maybe. atleast something.

      Sure she's more of a matter of fact kind of gal but I just never saw the possible bisexual moment with her which is why the ending to me was slightly unexpected.

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    • Some gay people are married and have kids before being gay, but i can't see any indication of her being lesbian in season 4 or any other.

      There's no response since they only went to the spirit world and if they have a romantic relationship no one would know and they also didn't say anything to anyone about it so they couldn't have a response.

      I don't know they never showed any kind of prejudice against others in the show, Korra and the others from the Water Tribes never suffered from racism so i don't think we could compare our world to the Avatar world.

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    • Agreeded! But right after Tenzin meets Korra at the end of the last episode, Asami says she can't lose both Korra and her father... That rasied a flag for me

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    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Some gay people are married and have kids before being gay, but i can't see any indication of her being lesbian in season 4 or any other.

      There's no response since they only went to the spirit world and if they have a romantic relationship no one would know and they also didn't say anything to anyone about it so they couldn't have a response.

      I don't know they never showed any kind of prejudice against others in the show, Korra and the others from the Water Tribes never suffered from racism so i don't think we could compare our world to the Avatar world.

      The indication I saw was how she blushed when asami liked her hair. Call it fanservice but it was definately not the way a girl would blush with her friends unless there was more. As for Asami, now that's what I don't understand.

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    • Um false Saitma. If you can't tell, they incorporated the 1920's feel in the series, with obviiously fitcatius stuff. And Bryke confirmed Korrasami... And they obviously left some 1920's thing out, since this is a childrens tv show...

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      Agreeded! But right after Tenzin meets Korra at the end of the last episode, Asami says she can't lose both Korra and her father... That rasied a flag for me

      This could have also meant can't lose Korra because Korra's literally her only best friend. Still doesn't justify Asami's orientation

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    • I can tell the series took time in a 1920's setting(kinda) but that doesn't mean they think like the people of that time in our world, so i don't think they would have a strong reaction from this aside from being surprised.

      I didn't see that as a indication but i read too much manga and women there blush with anything so i'm used to seein it in a non romantic way.

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    • Relationship and sex therapist here… In my practice I routinely help individuals, many young, to navigate their self-discovery, and their support system of family and friends on how to best help them. And "Bi because you used to date hetero" is not a valid concept. I just hope Bryke understands this distinction.

      Still, Korra *did* say "I think we both know that this… us… doesn't work", so that could be her coming to the determination that hetero was not working for her, not when she had chemistry with Asami.

      Consider this… were Aang and Katara bi or hetero? All the same absences of evidence surrounding Korrasami are likewise absent with them. And don't use children. I'm bi, and a grandmother, so I can tell you from personal, children are not a determining factor in the "bi or…" question.

      Thing is, there is this prevalent social attitude, mostly unconscious, in which Hetero is considered the default, "normal", and certainly expected by 97% of the human populace. Including many non-hetero as there is a wary expectation of everyone they meet having the same expectations about them. This is called "Heterosexual Privilege", and from a strictly biological standpoint it is hardwired into nearly every biological creature on the planet to conceive the next generation.

      But after that imperative is fulfilled, most species no longer care what an individual does. Humans are able to shortcut, bypass, or just plain ignore the Imperative. Made easier when there is a population saturation and the edge of the imperative is curbed.

      So most people are unaware of their non-hetero inclinations, although in this day and age the heightened awareness of genderqueerness makes possible for self-awareness at young ages. Still people will *try* to be heteronormative. Most because they unaware they are non-hetero until trying to be hetero. So comes the first, often a string of, attempts at being hetero until finally accepting they are not, indeed never were.

      And it is not the place of anyone else to tell them what their orientation is. it must be self-determined.

      Here is an analogy…

      You're a shoe (for this example lets go with just 1, not the pair). Someone obtains you and tries to put you on their right foot. It is an uncomfortable fit. So they put you on the other foot and it is a very comfortable fit. Yet they can *force* you on the wrong foot and even wear you like that for a while despite the discomfort… does that change the fact you're a Left Shoe? No.
      However there *are* footwear—slippers, socks—which are meant to be worn on either foot. They would be "bi-footal"(bisexual).

      At this point, unless I can get from Bryke a response to satisfy *me* on the "bi, or" question and that they understand the distinction that what makes Bi is future dating not past, the only way we'll know for sure if Korra and or Asami are Bisexual is if future canon stories depict either of them *willingly* with a guy. Cause if not, then they are lesbians.

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    • Too bad we'll never know. I guess we just have to accept what happened and move on, which I can't at the moment. I guess it'll just take some time. Bryke said they are dont with the Avatar world and are moving on to other projects aside from comics about ATLA

      Thanks for you response. But I really dont like how she was straight for books 1 and 2 and most of 3. Book 4 caught me off guard, and it's really bothering me i don't know why... I know it just a cartoon but ugh its just confusing...

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    • In Real Life it can be confusing to everyone too, both non-hetero AND their hetero family and friends. And the longer a "left shoe" tries to be on the "wrong foot", the greater the confusion for all involved. Even more so if children produced of a marriage are involved.

      As Mako was apparently Korra and Asami's first romantic relationships, both K&A's revolving-door dating of him fits the pattern of non-hetero self-determination.

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    • Oh, a part of the canon Korrasami evidence everyone misses…

      In Book 3, Asami arrives with a Future Industries airship. They are met at one location (too lazy to look up) by Lin's Republic City Police airship to warn of Zaheer & Co's escapes.

      The two airships part with different destinations with Korra on Lin's. Where was Asami? On her airship?

      LOLNope. She was on the police ship with Korra.

      When I first saw the ships parting I thought, "Oh well, Korrasami on pause" …Oh, Me Of Little Faith…

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    • Well i only cited the kids example because he said both of them dated a guy befor so i used it as an example of gay people having hetero relationship before turning gay.

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    • Korra is bisexual, she goeos both ways, also i agree it would be rare to have an open same sex relationshi however they still very much exsited. 

      there we go clean cut answer for ya

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    • Seankiwijobesy wrote: Korra is bisexual, she goeos both ways

      See, even though we're discussing fictional characters, this is exactly what I meant by it is not the place for others to *tell* them what their orientation is

      Mako was literally their *first* relationship(s). Just because they *tried* to be hetero-at-first DOES NOT mean they are bisexual. It just means they tried "what was expected" and found it didn't work.

      What WILL make them bisexual is if any future canon stories show them willing to try men again.

      Succinctly put:

      They need to be bisexual despite having dated Mako first, not because they dated Mako first.

      So only subsequent canon tales will tell the tell².


      ¹well, other than their creators, being fictional characters
      ²not a typo

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    • I didn't find any signals to establish if she is lesbian or bisexual. For me, only in my opinion is bisexual. Every person is different, so maybe the fact that now she loves a girl doesn't mean that she won't love a boy one day. For the period I don't want to fall in stereotypes, but the story is set also in a fictional eastern world, so I think that there were in that period some cultures that could approve their relationship. Taoism with his balance between opposites, and Confucius with his "natural way to live" probably wouldn't have approve it, but in Japan was not only normal but also advised to have relationships between samurais. Also in general, homosexuality was yes disapproved by some, but not so much like with Christianity.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      Seankiwijobesy wrote: Korra is bisexual, she goeos both ways

      See, even though we're discussing fictional characters, this is exactly what I meant by it is not the place for others to *tell* them what their orientation is

      Mako was literally their *first* relationship(s). Just because they *tried* to be hetero-at-first DOES NOT mean they are bisexual. It just means they tried "what was expected" and found it didn't work.

      What WILL make them bisexual is if any future canon stories show them willing to try men again.

      Succinctly put:

      They need to be bisexual despite having dated Mako first, not because they dated Mako first.

      So only subsequent canon tales will tell the tell².


      ¹well, other than their creators, being fictional characters

      ²not a typo

      we are basing it off what we saw i guess, it will more likely be bisexual but to be honest I'm not too bothered what they make her, as her prefereed gender doesn't matter, she can like whatever and im cool with it aha 

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    • From all I can tell, Korra may have hinted that she likes Asami, but Asami never indicatied that she was bisexual or lesbian which in fact makes no sense. Either way, there was no build up to them besides a couple of moments in book 4. I re-watched all of legend of korra and got mixed vibes. I wished they weaved the story a bit better. Another thing is that Bryke said after book 2 was that they were done messing with Korra's love life since the fans were so impartial to Mako and Korra's breakup.

      Also, this was sort of a publicity stunt. Bryke said that they wanted incorporate LGBT stuff in Avatar, but what they don't understand is that they are showing this to children watching nickelodeon. 

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      From all I can tell, Korra may have hinted that she likes Asami, but Asami never indicatied that she was bisexual or lesbian which in fact makes no sense. Either way, there was no build up to them besides a couple of moments in book 4. I re-watched all of legend of korra and got mixed vibes. I wished they weaved the story a bit better. Another thing is that Bryke said after book 2 was that they were done messing with Korra's love life since the fans were so impartial to Mako and Korra's breakup.

      Also, this was sort of a publicity stunt. Bryke said that they wanted incorporate LGBT stuff in Avatar, but what they don't understand is that they are showing this to children watching nickelodeon. 

      Which is exactly why they danced around with the idea and after showing it to Nickelodeon they had to heavily limit how much they could actually show. the explanation is on their personal tumblrs.

      I'm in the same boat with you. I don't mind the heterosexual/bisexual inclinations but Asami never indicated she was bisexual or lesbian. Everything pointed to her being a very best friend. there was no flirtatious moment at all.

      Very much a publicity stunt perhaps.

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    • You just made my day...

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      You just made my day...

      I CAN'T MOVE ON BECAUSE TOO MANY QUESTIONS NO ANSWERS AND EXTREMELY FORCED KORRASAMI. :(

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    • SAME!!!!

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    • I know that this is a fictional story, but apart of me feels so confused and incomplete since I grew up watching ATLA and continued to LOK

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    • Also, Bryke said that they have to plans for comics or toher works for LOK, seems like this is where the road ends, confusion for the best story/plot/nick cartoon ever

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    • That's good news! Deff be reading those comics 

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    • I mean't they don't* 

      My bad

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    • Aw dude ahaha thing is lok wasn't a thing for ages before they were asked so who knows what could come p in 4-5 years :) 

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    • Hopefully you're right. Sad thing is that they posted on their tumblr accounts and talked aat comic-con and said they are ending the franchise after ATLA comics. Sucks to not have a whole story. I wish they wrote a legit book. That'd be awesome

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    • They're bisexual already! Now let the good times roll.

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    • All I can tell you is *I* picked up on their chemistry in Book1, which admittedly was not endgame at that point but probably bleed-through from Brian's desire to go that route. It only intensified from there when, as pointed out, K&A did not express animosity with each other.

      It gelled when they started working together *all the time* in Book3. As I pointed out, when the 2 airships parted for different destinations, Asami was not on her ship but with Korra on the other.

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    • But Brian and Mike said that in book 1, they had no intention of getting Korra and Asami together in case the show didn't get renewed... Not sure how you picked up on that but you are a therapist. Specail abilities haha

      And Asami is apart of team Avatar, of course she didn't go on her ship. The team stays together and only splits up when they have work that has to be done.

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    • She and Asami are bisexual. As stated by the creators.

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    • THIS IS ALL FICTIONAL, SO WHY AM I GETTING SO WORKED UP ABOUT IT? Can can any of y'all provide me with some closure and is anyone else feeling this way? Damn I feel stupid

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    • I don't know. They're together now, it doesn't matter what led up to it.

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    • I am rather empathetic. And a writer, so yeah I can pick up on a lot of subtleties. Usually I chalk up such vibes from (western animation) female characters as the "maleness" of most of the writing staff being guys as a majority. Sorry, but most guys have a difficult time not injecting subconscious gender-cues into their work, even with some women on staff to correct and offset it.

      Still, the airship thing is *still* a cue to be picked up on. It's like "I'll ride in the police van while team-B takes my stretch limo". While it does make sense because of the Team Avatar thing, that did not prevent them from going diff directions, which was done in most of Book2. In fact just a couple episodes before had been in 2 groups. So *I* was pleasantly surprised when after the initial thought of they once again split, she was nonetheless standing next to Korra the very next episode.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: She and Asami are bisexual. As stated by the creators.

      In point of fact, no they did not. The word "bisexual" did not appear AT ALL in Mike's blog, and ONLY ONCE in Brian's, and that was as a parenthetical aside comment not even applied *to* Korra or Asami.
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    • Fine, they both had romantic feelings for Mako. They both have romantic feelings for each other. There are literally only two possibile sexual orientations they could have: Bisexual or Pansexual. (alright, and heteroflexible). That's it.

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    • No. It is not. Lesbian is very much possible. Review my previous posts covering this point, but to whit:

      with Mako as their first romantic relationship(s), it is not unusual for non-heteros to discover trying to be hetero is not working for them. So that failed first (sometimes few) attempts do not count as part of their orientation. ONLY what they act upon in the future.
      Like with the shoe on the wrong foot analogy… just because you tried a shoe on a wrong foot before putting it on the correct one, does not mean that shoe is made to be worn on either/or. (most slippers and socks would be "bi" in this example)
      In other words, because he was their first hetero relationship K&A have to be bisexual despite having dated Mako, not because they dated Mako.
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    • Which would make sense, except that Korra was clearly crushing hard on Mako in season one. I'm fairly certain, as a gay man, that sexual attraction tends to mean that you're attracted to that sex. The "trying to be hetero" thing makes sense in our world, where vomit-worthy so-called "traditional family values" are expected and enforced, but due to the fact that homosexuality isn't overtly represented one way or the other on the show, we haven't seen anyone react negatively towards it, so the impetous for forcing oneself into a heterosexual romance to fit in wouldn't be there.

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    • All in all, there is very little evidence that Korra and Asami get together IF Mike and Brian hadn't told us they ended up together. I mean come on, this is on Nick for god sakes, there are children watching. Other people don't have the skills that Love Robin has, just saying. If Brian and Mike hadn't told us that Korra and Asami have feeling for each other, I probably wouldn't have believed it and therefore, I'm having a hard time accepting it. It's killing me!

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    • eh there are some decent moments in there though it is mainly subtext to be infered by the viewer

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    • It's killing you? Maybe you should see a doctor about your weak constitution. Honestly, it should be the fact that people think gay people are some kind of evil thing that kids shouldn't see that's killing you. Growing up and never seeing anyone like yourself in media is a fcking awful feeling.

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      THIS IS ALL FICTIONAL, SO WHY AM I GETTING SO WORKED UP ABOUT IT? Can can any of y'all provide me with some closure and is anyone else feeling this way? Damn I feel stupid

      this and so much else of neal's comments are hitting the nail on the head for me... i feel exactly the same way!

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      All in all, there is very little evidence that Korra and Asami get together IF Mike and Brian hadn't told us they ended up together. I mean come on, this is on Nick for god sakes, there are children watching. Other people don't have the skills that Love Robin has, just saying. If Brian and Mike hadn't told us that Korra and Asami have feeling for each other, I probably wouldn't have believed it and therefore, I'm having a hard time accepting it. It's killing me!

      tagging onto this, so many people, including bryan himself, are saying there was buildup, and the ending was obvious, etc.

      but if it was so obvious, why did both creators have to make an official statement on it to confirm it?

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    • because it's nickelodeon and the writers had a very VERY small amount of room to work with because of psychotic heteronormative parents who feel that their inability to properly handle broken condoms gives them the right to deny gay people rights and treat them like the scum of the earth... so they couldn't show too much.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
       Growing up and never seeing anyone like yourself in media is a fcking awful feeling.

      i used to call BS on this... but recently i started to understand this feeling. the fact that bryke put a bisexual couple in their work is HUGE for so many people, especially considering that the majority of LOK's audience is teen-aged.

      that said, i really think korrasami was a poor choice to use for that. Wuko (makoXwu) had about as much development as they did, imo. (alright, maybe not so much from mako's end, but wu for sure seemed at least a little gay for mako if you ask me haha). In fact, i think they should have left korra single at the end, and gave her her past lives back, and focused on other aspects of her character, and used wuko for the non-hetero representation.

      especially after bryke said they were toning down the relationship drama for the last two books, having korra in a relationship at the end degrades her character, i think, or asami's. if they had started working on that relationship sooner, and done more with it, i wouldn't be so opposed to it, but as is, you're either saying that korra has to be in a relationship, or that asami is just a prize for her... or something like that.

      (hell, for even more representation, they could have decided to make korra asexual.)

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    • Making her asexual wouldn't be more representation though, Having Korra and Asami together is two bisexual characters, that's double the representaion.

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    • Intelligence4 wrote:

      especially after bryke said they were toning down the relationship drama for the last two books, having korra in a relationship at the end degrades her character, i think, or asami's. if they had started working on that relationship sooner, and done more with it, i wouldn't be so opposed to it, but as is, you're either saying that korra has to be in a relationship, or that asami is just a prize for her... or something like that.

      i'm going to go back on this just a little... perhaps it doesn't degrade the characters so much as it degrades the show: with so little and not-obvious development, it makes their relationship seems like a publicity stunt. (just doing non-hetero for the sake of doing non-hetero, not because the characters actually go that way.)

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    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      Neal1027 wrote:
      THIS IS ALL FICTIONAL, SO WHY AM I GETTING SO WORKED UP ABOUT IT? Can can any of y'all provide me with some closure and is anyone else feeling this way? Damn I feel stupid
      this and so much else of neal's comments are hitting the nail on the head for me... i feel exactly the same way!

      Thank you for agreeing! Feels nice to know that I'm not alone on this

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      It's killing you? Maybe you should see a doctor about your weak constitution. Honestly, it should be the fact that people think gay people are some kind of evil thing that kids shouldn't see that's killing you. Growing up and never seeing anyone like yourself in media is a fcking awful feeling.

      Dude relax, I'm not against gay's. If you read my past comments, you'd know. Also, I'm commenting on my favorite character because it doesn't make sense. If Korra was a lesbian from the very beginning, I wouldn't mind it. You can't drop that big of a bomb shell at the very end and not expect people to react negativly. Sorry, but thats not how the world works bro

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    • Are you not reading? They weren't allowed to show too much. If Asami was a guy, there would have been a kiss.

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    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
       Growing up and never seeing anyone like yourself in media is a fcking awful feeling.
      i used to call BS on this... but recently i started to understand this feeling. the fact that bryke put a bisexual couple in their work is HUGE for so many people, especially considering that the majority of LOK's audience is teen-aged.

      that said, i really think korrasami was a poor choice to use for that. Wuko (makoXwu) had about as much development as they did, imo. (alright, maybe not so much from mako's end, but wu for sure seemed at least a little gay for mako if you ask me haha). In fact, i think they should have left korra single at the end, and gave her her past lives back, and focused on other aspects of her character, and used wuko for the non-hetero representation.

      especially after bryke said they were toning down the relationship drama for the last two books, having korra in a relationship at the end degrades her character, i think, or asami's. if they had started working on that relationship sooner, and done more with it, i wouldn't be so opposed to it, but as is, you're either saying that korra has to be in a relationship, or that asami is just a prize for her... or something like that.

      (hell, for even more representation, they could have decided to make korra asexual.)

      I completely agree, Bryke agreed not to mess with their realtionships and yet they drop a bombshell on us

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      because it's nickelodeon and the writers had a very VERY small amount of room to work with because of psychotic heteronormative parents who feel that their inability to properly handle broken condoms gives them the right to deny gay people rights and treat them like the scum of the earth... so they couldn't show too much.

      i fail to see how handling a broken condom = hating gays haha

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Are you not reading? They weren't allowed to show too much. If Asami was a guy, there would have been a kiss.

      But showing just as much as they did in book 4 would have been fine if it started from book 1. Then Brian and Mike wouldn't have to post on Tumblr to clarify...

      There doesn't have to be a kiss, there are otherways of expressing love

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Making her asexual wouldn't be more representation though, Having Korra and Asami together is two bisexual characters, that's double the representaion.

      it would though... you're thinking in number of people, but that doesn't really matter: it's the number of types of people that matter.

      if korra was asexual, and wuko happend, you'd have:

      1. asexuals: korra
      2. mako, a bi dude
      3. wu, a homo dude

      that's three different groups, whereas with korrasami, you only have the bi ladies represented.

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    • See it's like this, look at Asami's eyes, her hand is on Korra's shoulder but she's not looking at her, She's looking forward, that's how bad the censorship is. They literally could not have them looking at each other meaningfully twice. they had to have Jinora do it.

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    • They could have done Korrasami AND Wuko (although personally I'd rather have Linako.)

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    • NervousShipper wrote: The "trying to be hetero" thing makes sense in our world, where vomit-worthy so-called "traditional family values" are expected and enforced, but due to the fact that homosexuality isn't overtly represented one way or the other on the show, we haven't seen anyone react negatively towards it, so the impetous for forcing oneself into a heterosexual romance to fit in wouldn't be there.

      LOL, "absence of the evidence is not evidence of the absence".

      Until we are told of a difference between Our World and the Avatarverse, we can only fall back on relatable experiences. Leastwise for these discussions.

      Neal1027 wrote:

      All in all, there is very little evidence that Korra and Asami get together IF Mike and Brian hadn't told us they ended up together.
      Try going back over it now, knowing what you know now.

      Neal1027 wrote: I mean come on, this is on Nick for god sakes, there are children watching.

      Which is why Bryke at first did not do more than subtextual hints before getting a restricted greenlight from Nick Execs.

      As a former loli, and mother of (now mostly former) lolis, I can tell you that American and most Western societies do our children grave disservice by coddling them too much. Not only in talking-down to them, but being insistent that childhood and "let them be children" must = childish. "The adults are talking, sweetie, go play over there/outside/somewhere else".

      There are cultures across the globe where kids around and even under 13 are considered adults, and many more where they are not protected from adult themes and reasonings while growing up. Some where their very lives depend on knowing that behind that bush could be a predator waiting to pounce, and how to deal with them.

      I let each of my children watch their siblings being born (and films for the last set). Taught them that (hetero) sex means reproduction as a fully possible and expected result. When they became sexually active, it was the full understanding of those consequences. None of my grandchildren were unexpected.

      In my practice I deal with a lot of non-heteronormative youth trying to make sense of their feelings and come to terms with themselves. It would be very helpful for them if there was less hetero privilege pressuring them into feeling they must conform against their nature.

      To be Right Shoes—or even "bi-footal"—when they are Lefts.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: The "trying to be hetero" thing makes sense in our world, where vomit-worthy so-called "traditional family values" are expected and enforced, but due to the fact that homosexuality isn't overtly represented one way or the other on the show, we haven't seen anyone react negatively towards it, so the impetous for forcing oneself into a heterosexual romance to fit in wouldn't be there.

      LOL, "absence of the evidence is not evidence of the absence".

      Until we are told of a difference between Our World and the Avatarverse, we can only fall back on relatable experiences. Leastwise for these discussions.


      Neal1027 wrote:

      All in all, there is very little evidence that Korra and Asami get together IF Mike and Brian hadn't told us they ended up together.
      Try going back over it now, knowing what you know now.

      Neal1027 wrote: I mean come on, this is on Nick for god sakes, there are children watching.

      Which is why Bryke at first did not do more than subtextual hints before getting a restricted greenlight from Nick Execs.

      As a former loli, and mother of (now mostly former) lolis, I can tell you that American and most Western societies do our children grave disservice by coddling them too much. Not only in talking-down to them, but being insistent that childhood and "let them be children" must = childish. "The adults are talking, sweetie, go play over there/outside/somewhere else".

      There are cultures across the globe where kids around and even under 13 are considered adults, and many more where they are not protected from adult themes and reasonings while growing up. Some where their very lives depend on knowing that behind that bush could be a predator waiting to pounce, and how to deal with them.

      I let each of my children watch their siblings being born (and films for the last set). Taught them that (hetero) sex means reproduction as a fully possible and expected result. When they became sexually active, it was the full understanding of those consequences. None of my grandchildren were unexpected.

      In my practice I deal with a lot of non-heteronormative youth trying to make sense of their feelings and come to terms with themselves. It would be very helpful for them if there was less hetero privilege pressuring them into feeling they must conform against their nature.

      To be Right Shoes—or even "bi-footal"—when they are Lefts.


      For some reason you kind of remind me of leonard's mother from TBBT. Not that that's a bad thing. Heck we need more parents like you.

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    • ...i feel stupid for asking, but what's a loli?

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      I know that this is a fictional story, but apart of me feels so confused and incomplete since I grew up watching ATLA and continued to LOK

      EXACTLY!.

      Honestly guys the main kerfuffle we're all trying to amend amicably is just the fact that Asami's sexuality was (to the untrained eye) never portrayed. Sure you can talk about the directorial limitations imposed seeing as we're in a changing world ourselves, but then again, at the very least the subtle cues that were apparently apparent weren't apparent enough. Take Korra's blushing, now that hinted something. Asami? Nothing more than the airship ride and even then I took it to mean best friends. 

      I'm all for her sexuality. It's just the fact that it wasn't truly fleshed out. This is what bothers me. Maybe because I'm a guy, I will forever never understand how girls and girl-friends act around each other. For those who picked it up early on and whatnot I praise you. As for everyone else who never saw it coming, we need closure. 

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      See it's like this, look at Asami's eyes, her hand is on Korra's shoulder but she's not looking at her, She's looking forward, that's how bad the censorship is. They literally could not have them looking at each other meaningfully twice. they had to have Jinora do it.

      firstly, it does look like she's looking at her to me... and second of all, that screenshot is so blown up. it's a very small part of the original, meaning that which ways her eyes are looking is rather irrelevant in terms of drawing them: at that size, they're just dots.

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    • Asami really should have been around more, I love seeing non-benders kick ass.

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    • Who is to say that ALL THE OTHER characters who did not end up in relationships are not asexual? Really, to have asexual as a representation you'd have to clearly address their asexuality. And that faces all the same roadblocks with *clearly* addressing LGBT.

      BTW, Bryke did not have to clearly spell out Korrasami. But there were those who demanded to hear it from them that it was not "just friends" because they could not see the unambiguity of the build up. And I can easily see that same demand even had they been able to show them kissing.

      Let me say that I *can* relate. As a Kim Possible fan, I had my prefered ships, Kigo(Kim/Shego) and Kibo(Kim/Bonnie) among the my favs. The show clearly went hetero with all their pairings. Kim and Ron, Bonnie and SSJunior, and even hinted at Drakken and Shego. After the fact the creators had to say that Drakken/Shego were a couple.

      While I *know KP canon*, for the sake of my fanfics I prefer to ignore the canon ships—not so much ignore them, unless AU, as work them back out of them—ignore word of god, and I *cling* to the very final scene of the series where "Bonnie" with SSJunior is revealed to be the shapeshifting villain Camille Leon.

      So I can relate to wanting to keep my prefered ships alive. But I also still acknowledge what canon gave me.

      Goddess, how I wish Kigo had been endgame for Kim Possible

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    • Intelligence4 wrote: ...i feel stupid for asking, but what's a loli?

      Underaged minor girl in sexual context primarily with an older-to-adult partner, whether she is the seduced or seducer. It comes from Japanese "Lolicon", which takes its name from "Lolita".

      The boy equivalent would be Shota/shotacon. "Straight" prefixing Loli or Shota clarifies that the pairing itself is hetero.

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    • Triple post. Sorry.

      NervousShipper wrote:
      See it's like this, look at Asami's eyes, her hand is on Korra's shoulder but she's not looking at her, She's looking forward, that's how bad the censorship is. They literally could not have them looking at each other meaningfully twice. they had to have Jinora do it.

      Let me drop this link here

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    • I honestly think that their sexuality doesn't matter so much as the fact that they are truly in love with one another. Love is such complex emotion and at the end of the day it only has to work for the two parties involved. The important thing is that each found someone that made them happy.

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    • I don't think it matters to be honest. Can someone just love someone without slapping a label on it?

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    • Korruh wrote: I don't think it matters to be honest. Can someone just love someone without slapping a label on it?

      Dunno. What is your Orientation? How do you self-identify?

      Part of the problem is that someone will want to identify, quantify, and classify things. It is actually an integral part of the human condition to do so, and labels are how it is done. Communication cannot occur without commonly recognized and accepted labels…

      What is your name?
      What are you typing on right now?
      Which wikia is this?
      What color is the page?
      What day and time is it?
      What country are you in?
      What is the thing above your head? Below your feet?
      What is a head? Feet?

      See? *Everything* requires a label. And Labels are most effective when everyone agrees on definitions and meanings of the labels.

      However, allow me to commend you on a mature refreshing outlook.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      Korruh wrote: I don't think it matters to be honest. Can someone just love someone without slapping a label on it?

      Dunno. What is your Orientation? How do you self-identify?

      Part of the problem is that someone will want to identify, quantify, and classify things. It is actually an integral part of the human condition to do so, and labels are how it is done. Communication cannot occur without commonly recognized and accepted labels…

      What is your name?
      What are you typing on right now?
      Which wikia is this?
      What color is the page?
      What day and time is it?
      What country are you in?
      What is the thing above your head? Below your feet?
      What is a head? Feet?

      See? *Everything* requires a label. And Labels are most effective when everyone agrees on definitions and meanings of the labels.

      However, allow me to commend you on a mature refreshing outlook.

      I don't really identify as anything to be honest. At this point in my life, I've only dating one guy and I'm still seeing him. So I guess that makes me straight? I don't really question my sexuality often. I'm kinda blind in that aspect. If I start to fall for someone of the same gender, then whatever. It happened and I won't question it. I'm comfortable being who I am without labeling myself.

      But I do understand that people need to label, and I apologize if that came off as offensive.

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    • Korruh wrote: …I apologize if that came off as offensive.

      Well *I* didn't find it offensive. Quite the opposite.

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    • I don't think it's a label problem as much as it is people not being satisfied with the evidence that justifies the label.

      Both Korra and Asami dated Mako and now they are dating each other so therefore they are bisexual (Bryan confirmed this on his Tumblr page). Throughout the show the evidence has been ambiguous at best but the way the show ended with the two gazing deeply into each other's eyes with a look of longing on their faces pretty much sold it.

      But like I said love is complex, and at the end of the day it only has to work for them. 

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    • KorraFanatic wrote: Both Korra and Asami dated Mako and now they are dating each other so therefore they are bisexual

      Again, In Real Life this is NOT a truism. Especially for youths and their first attempts at romantic relationships. Many are *expected* to be heteronormal and they TRY to be. But find it does not work for them. Their first (few) hetero relationships end badly. Which, not even considering Mako's cheating on them both, is what we saw with Mako and Korra. They tried, they did not work.

      That does NOT make K&A necessarily bisexual. Back to the shoe analogy, you try to put on one and it is uncomfortable for that foot, so you put it on the other. No matter how hard you try, or how much you force it while ignoring any discomfort, a Left Shoe will never be comfortable on a Right Foot (and vice versa). It is NOT "bi-footal" like some footwear (slippers, socks, etc) are.

      This is exactly what young people go through. A few series of bad hetero relationships before self-determining they are not Hetero. However what makes a person bisexual is if AFTER that self-determination they are willing to be romantic with either gender.

      So for Korra and or Asami to be bisexual, it has to be despite having dated Mako, not because they dated Mako.

      KorraFanatic wrote: (Bryan confirmed this on his Tumblr page)

      Again, NO HE DID NOT. Brian's blog used the word "bisexual" ONCE in a parenthetical aside comment…

      (Despite what you might have heard, bisexual people are real!)

      …which was not attached to Korra or Asami other than being in the same article. Review basic English sentence construction—which as a writer Brian should have a fair handle on—and you'll see that parentheticals are primarily used as tangents and asides to the subject they are attached to. Also this definition: "used to say that something is not included in a statement that follows"

      I would really like to contact Bryke to see if properly understand the difference of RL Bisexual vs Lesbian. Basically could they ever see a story in the future where Korra and or Asami would willingly be in a relationship(s) with males, because if not, then one or both of them are lesbians.

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    • I agree that I simplified things a bit and that there are a lot of variables involved, but I think it's detrimental to keep overanalyzing the conversation. Eventually you need to come up with a conclusion that satisfies yourself.

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    • As a (bisexual) therapist, it irks me when people in general—not you specifically—have this fallacious reasoning on what makes a person bisexual. I have to constantly correct the friends & family of clients who keep trying to *tell them* they are bisexual based on their failed efforts of heteronormality, when the client no longer wants to ever try guys again. It's a level of… misinformation… which can cause pain and distress.

      This is real stuff I routinely deal with.

      If I cannot discuss this with Bryke themselves, then I'll just have to wait until any future canon stories set after them stepping into the portal tells us if either/or *willingly* (and there is a reason I keep stressing this word) will be with a guy again.

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    • Given your background, that's completely understandable. I, too, hope things will be clarified in the comics. And who knows? Maybe Korra and Asami will start dating men again.

      But it will be a long time before an answer comes. And maybe it will never come. In the end, I think Bryke only meant to do the whole Korrasami thing for entertainment purposes and not portray the real world problems that people actually deal with.

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    • I feel the largest complaint is an apparent lack of buildup, which to an extent I understand. However this is nick were talking about here, how much were they really going to let Mike and Bryan do here. Given the amount of buildup and the amount of buildup possible given nicks guidelines, this is about as obvious as it is going to get. Rather than looking at how much devlopent we think a relationship should get and look at the amount ot could have realistically received given the circumstances under which the show was written.

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    • Hopefully you've said what I wanted to say in a clear enough way for these people to finally grasp it.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Which would make sense, except that Korra was clearly crushing hard on Mako in season one. I'm fairly certain, as a gay man, that sexual attraction tends to mean that you're attracted to that sex. The "trying to be hetero" thing makes sense in our world, where vomit-worthy so-called "traditional family values" are expected and enforced, but due to the fact that homosexuality isn't overtly represented one way or the other on the show, we haven't seen anyone react negatively towards it, so the impetous for forcing oneself into a heterosexual romance to fit in wouldn't be there.

      I completely agree. I think that Korra and Asami's respective relatioships with Mako are not neccessarily representative of expected hetero-normivity. I honestly think that they dated him because they were both attracted to him, enjoyed his company, and bonded from having fought many battles together. Asami broke up with him because she became jealous of his obvious feelings towards Korra. Korra ended it because of their diverging life goals and his inability to be honest with her. I think that they both enjoyed being in a romantic relationship with him, which does not preclude Korra and Asami's mutal attraction nor utterly defines their sexual identification.

      In a perfect world, there would be no hetero-normivity enforced upon us, and anybody could date anybody without judgement or prejudice. I see no reason to discount any meaningful relationships that one is involved in, no matter how your partner identifies. What counts is the impact that they make on your life, whether they worked or not.

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    • I really like this relationship because it kind of got foreshadowed in just them getting closer and closer each season. Really cute in my opinion.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: ...i feel stupid for asking, but what's a loli?

      Underaged minor girl in sexual context primarily with an older-to-adult partner, whether she is the seduced or seducer. It comes from Japanese "Lolicon", which takes its name from "Lolita".

      The boy equivalent would be Shota/shotacon. "Straight" prefixing Loli or Shota clarifies that the pairing itself is hetero.

      isn't that... illegal?

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    • Mary Rachel wrote:

      Asami broke up with him because she became jealous of his obvious feelings towards Korra. Korra ended it because of their diverging life goals and his inability to be honest with her.

      actually, mako ended it with both of them, not the other way around...

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    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      Love Robin wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: ...i feel stupid for asking, but what's a loli?

      Underaged minor girl in sexual context primarily with an older-to-adult partner, whether she is the seduced or seducer. It comes from Japanese "Lolicon", which takes its name from "Lolita".

      The boy equivalent would be Shota/shotacon. "Straight" prefixing Loli or Shota clarifies that the pairing itself is hetero.

      isn't that... illegal?

      Irl yes, but drawings don't count. Or animated shorts.

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    • Just google Boku no Pico.

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    • To be honest, nothing against bisexuals, the entire loveline was very distracting from the rawest point of the show. Episodes like the Spirit of Competition were unneeded and didn't really add much to the plot.

      I honestly did enjoy only the first season. The story, in my opinion, should give less weight to love and more weight to developing a good and enjoyable story at stands well on its own with no love at all.

      If the show stuck with the story of Amon and how he developed to become the villain he is from Book 1-Book 4 it would have been much more enjoyable. That's what made ATLA a better series altogether. The developers must have ran out of creativity.

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    • I'd like to thank Love Robin for giving amazing responses, but they still bother me. I have no clue why, I just don't feel at peace, maybe because it was the final episode ever of the franchise, idk. Bryke said there are 2 more volume comics coming out for ATLA but none for Korra, so I guess we'll never know the answer. 

      Also, this was a publicity stunt for sure. Brain wrote on his tumblr that he's sorry it took them so long to support the LGBT community. He also said that the only reason he made korra and asami like each other because they didn't want to look back on this 20 years from now and regret not being apart of making an impact on the LGBT community... Purely publicity

      All in all, if it wasn't for Bryke claifying, I still would have thought she was straight. It kinda messed me up in the head becuase the show was inconsistent. If korra was bisexual or lesbian from book 1, GREAT! but since she wasn't evidently until book 4, things just don't add up. But again this is a cartoon, still can't figure out why it bothers me and why I'm not at peace. I guess it'll take some time accepting the ending of the franchise for good.

      Thanks y'all for trying. Keep the posts comming!

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    • What Brian said was he did not want to look back in 20 years and wish that he had fought harder for them. I take that as any creator who is given limitations but accepts instead of standing his ground.

      I use to be part of a fan project to revive Kim Possible with new content webisodes. When I came to loggerheads over certain creative visions regarding a couple of my episode scripts, I was told to accept their revisions or else. I walked and issued them a Cease and Desist on everything which was purely *mine*. OCs, Character Developments, and plots. I fought for the purity of my vision, and retained it even if it meant it would not air.

      Neal… professional advice? Not everyone can be readily recognized for their sexual orientation. One day you'll find people you've known and worked with for years to be non-hetero. Whether always or newly self-determined. Very little if at all will change about them other than you finding out who they are dating.

      I don't know your age and life situation, still one day your children or other family member will determine themselves to be non-hetero, perhaps even after having tried to date hetero.

      Wrap your head around the concept now, remember all my advice in this thread, so you can be supportive of them when they need you. And maybe then you'll also be able to look back and realize, "oh yeah, maybe Korra could have been struggling to be heteronormal with Mako."

      She was, after all, sequestered away at the Southern Tribe, and Mako was literally the 2nd guy her age she ever met. Of course she felt an expectation to be heteronormal.

      By the same token, Asami was literally the first girl her age she met outside of her sequestering…

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    • I guess she's just exploring her options. I mean everyone has had a gay moment or 2 in there life right? Maybe this is Korra's

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    • Davidbuddy9 wrote:
      Korra could be bisexual. 

      Maby she and Asami are.

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    • Wolf 91 wrote:
      Davidbuddy9 wrote:
      Korra could be bisexual. 
      Maby she and Asami are.

      That's my belief about them. I like them together though, Asami had her back and they really cared about each other.

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    • Momentous wrote:

      Wolf 91 wrote:
      Davidbuddy9 wrote:
      Korra could be bisexual. 
      Maby she and Asami are.

      That's my belief about them. I like them together though, Asami had her back and they really cared about each other.

      I dont understand why bisexuality is included in a children's cartoon... Even now it is not considered the norm.

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    • I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

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    • Here's a tip, don't have so many boxes to tick also that is one weird thought ahahaha

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    • She was interested in both Mako and Asami at differing points, so I'd say she's bi

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    • Neal1027, when you love someone you love them for who they are, not who you want them to be. You accept that person warts and all and you want him or her to be happy. To me, Korra is happy and that's all that matters.

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    • KorraFanatic wrote:
      Neal1027, when you love someone you love them for who they are, not who you want them to be. You accept that person warts and all and you want him or her to be happy. To me, Korra is happy and that's all that matters.

      this so much of this

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    • Momentous wrote:
      Wolf 91 wrote:
      Davidbuddy9 wrote:
      Korra could be bisexual. 
      Maby she and Asami are.
      That's my belief about them. I like them together though, Asami had her back and they really cared about each other.

      Konietzko confirmed it.

      Yes, one could take his comment about bisexual people existing out of context and claim that it's not necessarily about Korra and Asami...but, in context, it's pretty clear that it's about Korra and Asami.  (Also: who's to say that homophobia even exists in the Avatarverse?)

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    • Boomeraang squad wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote:
      Love Robin wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: ...i feel stupid for asking, but what's a loli?

      Underaged minor girl in sexual context primarily with an older-to-adult partner, whether she is the seduced or seducer. It comes from Japanese "Lolicon", which takes its name from "Lolita".

      The boy equivalent would be Shota/shotacon. "Straight" prefixing Loli or Shota clarifies that the pairing itself is hetero.

      isn't that... illegal?

      Irl yes, but drawings don't count. Or animated shorts.

      I don't know about Japan, but in America, if you draw out a sex scene with a child character, it is still considered child porn, & therefore illegal. I'm sure that there are loopholes that people employ, though.

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    • Yeah...such as half-assed handwaves like "this character is really long-lived and ages one year for every three, and is therefore totally a legal adult despite looking ten."  (It remains that the character looks ten and it's creepy.)

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    • Love Robin wrote:
      What Brian said was he did not want to look back in 20 years and wish that he had fought harder for them. I take that as any creator who is given limitations but accepts instead of standing his ground.

      I use to be part of a fan project to revive Kim Possible with new content webisodes. When I came to loggerheads over certain creative visions regarding a couple of my episode scripts, I was told to accept their revisions or else. I walked and issued them a Cease and Desist on everything which was purely *mine*. OCs, Character Developments, and plots. I fought for the purity of my vision, and retained it even if it meant it would not air.

      Neal… professional advice? Not everyone can be readily recognized for their sexual orientation. One day you'll find people you've known and worked with for years to be non-hetero. Whether always or newly self-determined. Very little if at all will change about them other than you finding out who they are dating.

      I don't know your age and life situation, still one day your children or other family member will determine themselves to be non-hetero, perhaps even after having tried to date hetero.

      Wrap your head around the concept now, remember all my advice in this thread, so you can be supportive of them when they need you. And maybe then you'll also be able to look back and realize, "oh yeah, maybe Korra could have been struggling to be heteronormal with Mako."

      She was, after all, sequestered away at the Southern Tribe, and Mako was literally the 2nd guy her age she ever met. Of course she felt an expectation to be heteronormal.

      By the same token, Asami was literally the first girl her age she met outside of her sequestering…

      I was wondering if you read my last comment... Thanks

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      Yeah...such as half-assed handwaves like "this character is really long-lived and ages one year for every three, and is therefore totally a legal adult despite looking ten."  (It remains that the character looks ten and it's creepy.)

      basically this. Shes a dwarve thats why shes so small. Shes an elf, you seen an elf? Well thats what I think they look like nothing wrong with that. Ect...

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    • I don't know about that person, but I can generally tell the difference between a dwarf & a small child.

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    • I never said the excuses were good ones.

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    • I bet I can come up with better.






      It's a talking duck in a very convincing costume.

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    • Korra is the first Avatar to bend 6 elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Energy and Asami.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Korra is the first Avatar to bend 6 elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Energy and Asami.

      I laughed far longer than I care to admit about this

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Korra is the first Avatar to bend 6 elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Energy and Asami.

      Good one!

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Korra is the first Avatar to bend 6 elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Energy and Asami.

      I think you mean seven elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Energy, Metal, and Asami.

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    • This is a scarily long post discussing the romantic possibilities of the current Avatar. As an Air Nomad Avatar, I feel it safe to say that it really doesn't seem to be any of our business at all. Especially since it's really getting off topic here. Effectively: there was a previous relationship for both Korra and Asami (with the same fellow), neither worked out, they (both couples) split, the producers said they weren't going to mess with Team Avatar's love lives anymore (everything else is fair game), and suddenly a trip to the spirit world is giving a lot of people something big to argue about. Myself, I'm fairly sure that Korra's had too much trouble either way to be thinking about a relationship; if her character has developed as much as everyone says it has, why should we feel the need to identify her by her romantic interests? She probably wouldn't like being judged in this manner, anyway.

      Also, I'm fairly certain that Metalbending is a subsect of Earthbending, just as Lightning Generation is a subsect of Firebending even though they're nothing alike in our world.

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      Hey guys, I just binge watched books 3 and 4 and I can't seam to find peace at all in terms of Korra's sexual preference. Let me explain. In books 1 and 2, she was straight, In book 3, you couldn't really tell she was a lesbian, but in book four, it become pretty evident. Is it possible to being lesbian since it didn't work out with Mako? How could she be straight then turn lesbian, not that I'm against it, good for her! I just need some closure.

      Also, in the series, they never show the communites, parents, and character's responses to the Korrasami relationship...

      Also, this is in the 1920's setting, I don't think people accepted this back in the day in the real world, just thought I'd put it out there.

      It may be a setting based off of the 1920's setting, but you also have to consider that this is a completely different world then ours. As far as we know they could be accepting of it. Not to mention, Korra is the Avatar. First person to protest it is going to be tossed three blocks and land in the river. That is after she sets their crotch on fire for talking trash about her girlfriend. Which is an acceptable response in my opinion.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Boomeraang squad wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote:
      Love Robin wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: ...i feel stupid for asking, but what's a loli?

      Underaged minor girl in sexual context primarily with an older-to-adult partner, whether she is the seduced or seducer. It comes from Japanese "Lolicon", which takes its name from "Lolita".

      The boy equivalent would be Shota/shotacon. "Straight" prefixing Loli or Shota clarifies that the pairing itself is hetero.

      isn't that... illegal?
      Irl yes, but drawings don't count. Or animated shorts.

      I don't know about Japan, but in America, if you draw out a sex scene with a child character, it is still considered child porn, & therefore illegal. I'm sure that there are loopholes that people employ, though.

      If that's true, then there are few sites I know of that are in trouble

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    • AvatarJinzo wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Korra is the first Avatar to bend 6 elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Energy and Asami.
      I think you mean seven elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Energy, Metal, and Asami.

      Metalbending is a subset of earthbending, though

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    • Neal1027 wrote:
      I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

      i think i'm having similar feelings: although i'm also a guy, i saw a lot of my own traits in korra, and some of the struggles she went through closely mirrored some of my own, and seeing how she bounced back kind of helped me do so too a little bit. so when she was revealed to be something i'm not, it bugged me, as odd as that sounds. thanks neal for articulating that, that helped me a bit.

      that said though, i still call HUGE bs on bryan's statement about viewing the last couple books with a hetero lens. hetero female "BFFs" often behave in ways that would, in males, be considered non-hetero behavior. (at least in today's society's standards). so seeing that kind of interaction between two females in no way construes a developing romantic relationship. they even said at the end of book 2 that they were going to set the romance on the shelf for a while, which is another reason fans weren't looking for any kind of relationship development. if they wanted to properly develop this "relationship" they should have made it more explicit. apparently, they didn't even get the idea until later, which imo, was too late to execute it properly. anyway, i understand there were restrictions on what they could show, but if they couldn't show it all the way, they shouldn't have done it at all. yes, i know, baby steps with this sort of thing, but those steps should have been taken sooner in the development. the last scene of the finale shouldn't change the tone of the show so much.

        Loading editor
    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      Neal1027 wrote:
      I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

      i think i'm having similar feelings: although i'm also a guy, i saw a lot of my own traits in korra, and some of the struggles she went through closely mirrored some of my own, and seeing how she bounced back kind of helped me do so too a little bit. so when she was revealed to be something i'm not, it bugged me, as odd as that sounds. thanks neal for articulating that, that helped me a bit.

      that said though, i still call HUGE bs on bryan's statement about viewing the last couple books with a hetero lens. hetero female "BFFs" often behave in ways that would, in males, be considered non-hetero behavior. (at least in today's society's standards). so seeing that kind of interaction between two females in no way construes a developing romantic relationship. they even said at the end of book 2 that they were going to set the romance on the shelf for a while, which is another reason fans weren't looking for any kind of relationship development. if they wanted to properly develop this "relationship" they should have made it more explicit. apparently, they didn't even get the idea until later, which imo, was too late to execute it properly. anyway, i understand there were restrictions on what they could show, but if they couldn't show it all the way, they shouldn't have done it at all. yes, i know, baby steps with this sort of thing, but those steps should have been taken sooner in the development. the last scene of the finale shouldn't change the tone of the show so much.

      You hit the bulls eye bro. I completely agree 100%. There was little supporting evidence showing Korra's and Asami's romantic relationship. There was no development in the way that would alllow each viewer to see that same thing. Hopefully, they come out with another series in the future to answer our questions. LOK had many answers about Aang and the old gangs lives after the war through the comics and much more info provided in LOK. Hopefuly comics and the next show clarify what the characters are up to, how the community, Mako, her parents, and other react to their relationship. If they'll have any children and many more questions. I just hope we don't have to wait another 4-5 years, that would suck some major ass. Also, hopefully Nickolodeon loosens up a bit, I prefer the 20 episode books since it allows more character development and allows one to focus on the plot closely and follow along.

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    • sadly, i don't think we're getting the next avatar. bryke said they want to step away for a while and do something different.

      we'll still have the atla comics though, which is nice, even if we have to wait a long while for the next one (almost a year! :(   )

      considering nick's treatment of korra and the viewership ratings it got while on air, i don't think we're going to be getting any more korra content even planned anytime soon.

      and i guess bryke also said they wouldn't want to do Avatar in a modern world, which means they wouldn't write about the next avatar if (that's a huge if) they did another series. (unless the world just didn't develop at all...?)

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    • Intelligence4 wrote: sadly, i don't think we're getting the next avatar. bryke said they want to step away for a while and do something different.

      we'll still have the atla comics though, which is nice, even if we have to wait a long while for the next one (almost a year! :(   )

      considering nick's treatment of korra and the viewership ratings it got while on air, i don't think we're going to be getting any more korra content even planned anytime soon.

      and i guess bryke also said they wouldn't want to do Avatar in a modern world, which means they wouldn't write about the next avatar if (that's a huge if) they did another series. (unless the world just didn't develop at all...?)

      To be fair on this, they did say they were moving on to other projects at the end of Avatar, yet Korra did still happen and here we are.

      I honestly hope that one day in perhaps five years they will pick back up the Avatar franchise and continue working with it in some new way. They've said other things in the past they haven't kept their word on like that "Mako and Korra were meant for each other" so I don't think that necessarily means they'll never go into the future. This may just be my desire to see Korrasami kids speaking, but

        Loading editor
    • Neal1027 wrote: I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

      This may sound rude, but boo-freaking-hoo. You ever thought that maybe gay people can get crushes on other girls in media? That maybe other gay look up and see characters they've fallen in love with in media but know they can never have because they're straight? It happens alllll the time.

      Let me speak from experience, I've loved Asami for a while. I genuinely and completely expected her to be straight. So you can imagine my surprise and genuine joy with the ending, to get to see a character I loved so much be somebody I could love too.

      Characters shouldn't expect to be made solely for you. There are plenty of gay girls out there who love Korra to pieces and are extremely happy with her being bi or a lesbian. Character's shouldn't have to cater to you with their sexual interests. You should be allowed to still enjoy a fictional character who isn't attracted to you. All characters shouldn't be expected to comply to you and your needs, and lesbian fictional characters who only comply to gay girls needs are okay. Why can't gay people have one character to themselves when straight people have many to pick and choose from?

        Loading editor
    • Intelligence4 wrote:

      Neal1027 wrote:
      I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

      i think i'm having similar feelings: although i'm also a guy, i saw a lot of my own traits in korra, and some of the struggles she went through closely mirrored some of my own, and seeing how she bounced back kind of helped me do so too a little bit. so when she was revealed to be something i'm not, it bugged me, as odd as that sounds. thanks neal for articulating that, that helped me a bit.

      that said though, i still call HUGE bs on bryan's statement about viewing the last couple books with a hetero lens. hetero female "BFFs" often behave in ways that would, in males, be considered non-hetero behavior. (at least in today's society's standards). so seeing that kind of interaction between two females in no way construes a developing romantic relationship. they even said at the end of book 2 that they were going to set the romance on the shelf for a while, which is another reason fans weren't looking for any kind of relationship development. if they wanted to properly develop this "relationship" they should have made it more explicit. apparently, they didn't even get the idea until later, which imo, was too late to execute it properly. anyway, i understand there were restrictions on what they could show, but if they couldn't show it all the way, they shouldn't have done it at all. yes, i know, baby steps with this sort of thing, but those steps should have been taken sooner in the development. the last scene of the finale shouldn't change the tone of the show so much.

      I beg to differ. As somebody who has spent a lot of time around girls, they don't act like Korra and Asami do when they're friends. Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please.

      I've spent plenty of time around girls, and gay girls, and I know how they flirt. I know how they behave when they like somebody. Sure, there were no extremely blatant moments of flirting between Korra and Asami. What do you expect? It's nickelodeon. They quite literally can't have giant blatant bursts of emotional gayness. But these characters are very clearly queer-coded, and I think part of the reason Book 3 and Book 4 korrasami gained so much traction was that other gay people could notice the queer-coding.

      For fun, here's a personal favorite Korrasami analysis that really takes time to show the ways that Korra and Asami have expressed their attraction to each other.

      Anyways, continuing on, everybody seems fixated on the "it came later" idea. But how much later is later? The scripts were written a year before the episode aired. They had already been tossing the idea around since Season 1. Clearly, in terms of gay rights, a lot has changed in that time. They've kicked the idea around, but only actually thought of adding it in sometime after they had written the episode. It was almost definitely decided pre-animation, and clearly they had the idea for a long time before then. So why does everybody seem to think this was some last-minute-out-of-nowhere happening? It wasn't.

      Honestly as I've pointed out multiple times, it's suspicious how many people will jump on the "rushed and forced" train yet won't say anything about Zhurrick. Really? They had a grand total of 3 scenes with dialogue together before getting married. All of which were in Book 4. Varrick even seemed indifferent to Zhu Li returning until his mind was suddenly changed in the finale. That was completely out of nowhere. The whole "Zhurrick" thing was forced and rushed to all hell, and it makes me laugh seeing people praise Zhurrick yet condemn Korrasami for being rushed.

        Loading editor
    • "Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please." - Fire Ferret 

      I've got to disagree with you there. Many starit girlfrineds (espicaly if they are ditsy) do all those things. I've done most of them myself. The difference is that in animation every fraim counts. Every movement, every word, means something. So what could be inturprited as just friends in real life, turns into hinting at romance in animation. So your right. In LOK all these things = romance but in real life they only = friendship. Also with Korra's character the blush definitly ment romance because of her personality. Korra doesnt blush at just anyone. 

        Loading editor
    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      sadly, i don't think we're getting the next avatar. bryke said they want to step away for a while and do something different.

      we'll still have the atla comics though, which is nice, even if we have to wait a long while for the next one (almost a year! :(   )

      considering nick's treatment of korra and the viewership ratings it got while on air, i don't think we're going to be getting any more korra content even planned anytime soon.

      and i guess bryke also said they wouldn't want to do Avatar in a modern world, which means they wouldn't write about the next avatar if (that's a huge if) they did another series. (unless the world just didn't develop at all...?)

      Actually, LOK's fan base is huge, or was. During book 1, we can 3-5 million viewers every episode. If Book 2,3,4 came out when they were supposed to, I'm sure LOK would be even higher in ratings if it weren't for production problems. During the gap between book 1 and 2, LOK lost alot of fans simply because it was taking too long.

      Same goes for the comics, it's simply taking too long. The should have had all the comics out in the 5 year gap between ATLA and LOK, so that was the comics can connect with LOK also providing us with vital background information.

      Feels good to know you feel the same way as I do. I appreciate it 

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    • FireFerret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: sadly, i don't think we're getting the next avatar. bryke said they want to step away for a while and do something different.

      we'll still have the atla comics though, which is nice, even if we have to wait a long while for the next one (almost a year! :(   )

      considering nick's treatment of korra and the viewership ratings it got while on air, i don't think we're going to be getting any more korra content even planned anytime soon.

      and i guess bryke also said they wouldn't want to do Avatar in a modern world, which means they wouldn't write about the next avatar if (that's a huge if) they did another series. (unless the world just didn't develop at all...?)

      To be fair on this, they did say they were moving on to other projects at the end of Avatar, yet Korra did still happen and here we are.

      I honestly hope that one day in perhaps five years they will pick back up the Avatar franchise and continue working with it in some new way. They've said other things in the past they haven't kept their word on like that "Mako and Korra were meant for each other" so I don't think that necessarily means they'll never go into the future. This may just be my desire to see Korrasami kids speaking, but

      They ended on pretty bad terms with Nick and alot of viewers with the Korrasami canon. I'm pretty sure another network might pick them up, but definately not nick

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    • FireFerret wrote:

      Neal1027 wrote: I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

      This may sound rude, but boo-freaking-hoo. You ever thought that maybe gay people can get crushes on other girls in media? That maybe other gay look up and see characters they've fallen in love with in media but know they can never have because they're straight? It happens alllll the time.

      Let me speak from experience, I've loved Asami for a while. I genuinely and completely expected her to be straight. So you can imagine my surprise and genuine joy with the ending, to get to see a character I loved so much be somebody I could love too.

      Characters shouldn't expect to be made solely for you. There are plenty of gay girls out there who love Korra to pieces and are extremely happy with her being bi or a lesbian. Character's shouldn't have to cater to you with their sexual interests. You should be allowed to still enjoy a fictional character who isn't attracted to you. All characters shouldn't be expected to comply to you and your needs, and lesbian fictional characters who only comply to gay girls needs are okay. Why can't gay people have one character to themselves when straight people have many to pick and choose from?

      Well first of all, I never said I didn't enjoy Korra. I also didn't say that the character was made for me, it just described with I was looking for in a nice young lady. I was simply shocked to see it happen, and thus I gave you a simple reason of why I was shocked. I never said they HAD to comply with me or else... And lastly, I didn't say I hate Korra for being a lesbian or a bisexual. Get your facts right foo

        Loading editor
    • FireFerret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote:


      Neal1027 wrote:
      I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

      i think i'm having similar feelings: although i'm also a guy, i saw a lot of my own traits in korra, and some of the struggles she went through closely mirrored some of my own, and seeing how she bounced back kind of helped me do so too a little bit. so when she was revealed to be something i'm not, it bugged me, as odd as that sounds. thanks neal for articulating that, that helped me a bit.

      that said though, i still call HUGE bs on bryan's statement about viewing the last couple books with a hetero lens. hetero female "BFFs" often behave in ways that would, in males, be considered non-hetero behavior. (at least in today's society's standards). so seeing that kind of interaction between two females in no way construes a developing romantic relationship. they even said at the end of book 2 that they were going to set the romance on the shelf for a while, which is another reason fans weren't looking for any kind of relationship development. if they wanted to properly develop this "relationship" they should have made it more explicit. apparently, they didn't even get the idea until later, which imo, was too late to execute it properly. anyway, i understand there were restrictions on what they could show, but if they couldn't show it all the way, they shouldn't have done it at all. yes, i know, baby steps with this sort of thing, but those steps should have been taken sooner in the development. the last scene of the finale shouldn't change the tone of the show so much.

      I beg to differ. As somebody who has spent a lot of time around girls, they don't act like Korra and Asami do when they're friends. Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please.

      I've spent plenty of time around girls, and gay girls, and I know how they flirt. I know how they behave when they like somebody. Sure, there were no extremely blatant moments of flirting between Korra and Asami. What do you expect? It's nickelodeon. They quite literally can't have giant blatant bursts of emotional gayness. But these characters are very clearly queer-coded, and I think part of the reason Book 3 and Book 4 korrasami gained so much traction was that other gay people could notice the queer-coding.

      For fun, here's a personal favorite Korrasami analysis that really takes time to show the ways that Korra and Asami have expressed their attraction to each other.

      Anyways, continuing on, everybody seems fixated on the "it came later" idea. But how much later is later? The scripts were written a year before the episode aired. They had already been tossing the idea around since Season 1. Clearly, in terms of gay rights, a lot has changed in that time. They've kicked the idea around, but only actually thought of adding it in sometime after they had written the episode. It was almost definitely decided pre-animation, and clearly they had the idea for a long time before then. So why does everybody seem to think this was some last-minute-out-of-nowhere happening? It wasn't.

      Honestly as I've pointed out multiple times, it's suspicious how many people will jump on the "rushed and forced" train yet won't say anything about Zhurrick. Really? They had a grand total of 3 scenes with dialogue together before getting married. All of which were in Book 4. Varrick even seemed indifferent to Zhu Li returning until his mind was suddenly changed in the finale. That was completely out of nowhere. The whole "Zhurrick" thing was forced and rushed to all hell, and it makes me laugh seeing people praise Zhurrick yet condemn Korrasami for being rushed.

      Um again, you need to re-read what you just wrote. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Verrick and Zhu Li have been working together non-stop since book 2. They have never been seperated at all, even when Verrick went to prison. I actually saw that coming eventually because he was in every book as an x-factor to alot of Team Avatar's plans. With that said, if he had stoppped showing up in episodes as an x-factor/ recurring role, I wouldn't have guessed it. 

      And Mike and Bryan said that the started thing about the Korrasami canon after book 2, because they weren't sure that Nick would pick them up for the full 4 books. They even said that if they knew from the beingnning that the show would pick them up until the end, they would have made their relationship much more developed and obvious. 

      Also, girls talk about everything to there girl freinds. Like really personal stuff, sex life, crushes, haircuts, etc. Thats doesn't imply that they are in love, it just means that they can be open with one another with no strings attcahed... bascially a shoulder to cry on, or an advisor, someone that can help you through a rough time. 

      Witht hat said again, I accept that Korrasami is canon, they creators said it, there is no point in aruging that she isn't. We are just talking about how they didn't build up to it as much as they should have to get the full audience to get the same meaning. I'm fairly positive that young teens and children didn't get the hold hand reference, or the blushing for the comment on Korra's hair, or the emotional letter writing as a way for Korra to like Asami. They only way they could have confirmed it is if they visited Brykes tumblr pages.

        Loading editor
    • Katherine Rebekah wrote:
      "Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please." - Fire Ferret 

      I've got to disagree with you there. Many starit girlfrineds (espicaly if they are ditsy) do all those things. I've done most of them myself. The difference is that in animation every fraim counts. Every movement, every word, means something. So what could be inturprited as just friends in real life, turns into hinting at romance in animation. So your right. In LOK all these things = romance but in real life they only = friendship. Also with Korra's character the blush definitly ment romance because of her personality. Korra doesnt blush at just anyone. 

      ^ Agreed

        Loading editor
    • FireFerret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote:

      Neal1027 wrote:
      I think I figured out why I'm having those feelings about Korra. I think Love Robin can help me out here, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

      To tell y'all the truth, I love Korra. I know, its dumb liking a fictional character but whatever. She really grew on me like the characters in ATLA. This actually could be going on in another universe...I'm getting off track... Anyways, if you couldn't tell, I'm a guy. So when I look for a girl, I like to look for someone who possesses qualities that Korra has. For example, shes kind, compasionate, heart-warming, giving, good looking, muscular etc but shes also tough, a hard ass, and much more when she needs to be. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't stand the thought that the love of my life might be a lesbian. That's why its bothering me, along with alot of ambiguity due to nickolodeons restraints...

      i think i'm having similar feelings: although i'm also a guy, i saw a lot of my own traits in korra, and some of the struggles she went through closely mirrored some of my own, and seeing how she bounced back kind of helped me do so too a little bit. so when she was revealed to be something i'm not, it bugged me, as odd as that sounds. thanks neal for articulating that, that helped me a bit.

      that said though, i still call HUGE bs on bryan's statement about viewing the last couple books with a hetero lens. hetero female "BFFs" often behave in ways that would, in males, be considered non-hetero behavior. (at least in today's society's standards). so seeing that kind of interaction between two females in no way construes a developing romantic relationship. they even said at the end of book 2 that they were going to set the romance on the shelf for a while, which is another reason fans weren't looking for any kind of relationship development. if they wanted to properly develop this "relationship" they should have made it more explicit. apparently, they didn't even get the idea until later, which imo, was too late to execute it properly. anyway, i understand there were restrictions on what they could show, but if they couldn't show it all the way, they shouldn't have done it at all. yes, i know, baby steps with this sort of thing, but those steps should have been taken sooner in the development. the last scene of the finale shouldn't change the tone of the show so much.

      I beg to differ. As somebody who has spent a lot of time around girls, they don't act like Korra and Asami do when they're friends. Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please.

      I've spent plenty of time around girls, and gay girls, and I know how they flirt. I know how they behave when they like somebody. Sure, there were no extremely blatant moments of flirting between Korra and Asami. What do you expect? It's nickelodeon. They quite literally can't have giant blatant bursts of emotional gayness. But these characters are very clearly queer-coded, and I think part of the reason Book 3 and Book 4 korrasami gained so much traction was that other gay people could notice the queer-coding.

      For fun, here's a personal favorite Korrasami analysis that really takes time to show the ways that Korra and Asami have expressed their attraction to each other.

      Anyways, continuing on, everybody seems fixated on the "it came later" idea. But how much later is later? The scripts were written a year before the episode aired. They had already been tossing the idea around since Season 1. Clearly, in terms of gay rights, a lot has changed in that time. They've kicked the idea around, but only actually thought of adding it in sometime after they had written the episode. It was almost definitely decided pre-animation, and clearly they had the idea for a long time before then. So why does everybody seem to think this was some last-minute-out-of-nowhere happening? It wasn't.

      Honestly as I've pointed out multiple times, it's suspicious how many people will jump on the "rushed and forced" train yet won't say anything about Zhurrick. Really? They had a grand total of 3 scenes with dialogue together before getting married. All of which were in Book 4. Varrick even seemed indifferent to Zhu Li returning until his mind was suddenly changed in the finale. That was completely out of nowhere. The whole "Zhurrick" thing was forced and rushed to all hell, and it makes me laugh seeing people praise Zhurrick yet condemn Korrasami for being rushed.

      I like the analysis, clear's some things up. Thanks

        Loading editor
    • Maybe you should reread, neal. Varrick and Zhu-Li didn't even exist in book 1

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Maybe you should reread, neal. Varrick and Zhu-Li didn't even exist in book 1

      I meant book 2, sorry. 

        Loading editor
    • Katherine Rebekah wrote: "Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please." - Fire Ferret 

      I've got to disagree with you there. Many starit girlfrineds (espicaly if they are ditsy) do all those things. I've done most of them myself. The difference is that in animation every fraim counts. Every movement, every word, means something. So what could be inturprited as just friends in real life, turns into hinting at romance in animation. So your right. In LOK all these things = romance but in real life they only = friendship. Also with Korra's character the blush definitly ment romance because of her personality. Korra doesnt blush at just anyone. 

      Never in all of my life have I ever seen a girl blush while giving a platonic compliment. I've also never heard of a girl write another girl about her emotional struggles in her darkest times over all of her other equally close friends. It just doesn't add up why she would only write to Asami— if anything I could see her writing to Mako because he would likely understand best. Yet she wrote to Asami instead.

      Yeah, I've seen girls compliment other girls. But in the context, not really. Most girls don't call other girls snazzy unless they're joking, nor do they call them sweet unless they're joking. Also, you could count in that Asami brings Korra tea in case she's cold... on a warm day in Republic City... to the girl who grew up in the South Pole...

      I'm just saying, there's plenty of romantic undertones. Almost all of my friends are girls, girls who have best friends. They don't do that. My best friend and I don't do that. That's not platonic.

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    • exactly, stop scissor-snipping them.

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    • Neal1027 wrote:

      FireFerret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: sadly, i don't think we're getting the next avatar. bryke said they want to step away for a while and do something different.

      we'll still have the atla comics though, which is nice, even if we have to wait a long while for the next one (almost a year! :(   )

      considering nick's treatment of korra and the viewership ratings it got while on air, i don't think we're going to be getting any more korra content even planned anytime soon.

      and i guess bryke also said they wouldn't want to do Avatar in a modern world, which means they wouldn't write about the next avatar if (that's a huge if) they did another series. (unless the world just didn't develop at all...?)

      To be fair on this, they did say they were moving on to other projects at the end of Avatar, yet Korra did still happen and here we are.

      I honestly hope that one day in perhaps five years they will pick back up the Avatar franchise and continue working with it in some new way. They've said other things in the past they haven't kept their word on like that "Mako and Korra were meant for each other" so I don't think that necessarily means they'll never go into the future. This may just be my desire to see Korrasami kids speaking, but

      They ended on pretty bad terms with Nick and alot of viewers with the Korrasami canon. I'm pretty sure another network might pick them up, but definately not nick

      Nah, probably not. You could argue they weren't on the best of terms with nick during Avatar either, but they still got picked up for Korra. Regardless, if you'll notice in their interviews Mike and Bryan specifically avoid saying bad about nick. They do still seem to care about their relationship with the network, even if fans don't.

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    • FireFerret wrote:

      Neal1027 wrote:

      FireFerret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: sadly, i don't think we're getting the next avatar. bryke said they want to step away for a while and do something different.

      we'll still have the atla comics though, which is nice, even if we have to wait a long while for the next one (almost a year! :(   )

      considering nick's treatment of korra and the viewership ratings it got while on air, i don't think we're going to be getting any more korra content even planned anytime soon.

      and i guess bryke also said they wouldn't want to do Avatar in a modern world, which means they wouldn't write about the next avatar if (that's a huge if) they did another series. (unless the world just didn't develop at all...?)

      To be fair on this, they did say they were moving on to other projects at the end of Avatar, yet Korra did still happen and here we are.

      I honestly hope that one day in perhaps five years they will pick back up the Avatar franchise and continue working with it in some new way. They've said other things in the past they haven't kept their word on like that "Mako and Korra were meant for each other" so I don't think that necessarily means they'll never go into the future. This may just be my desire to see Korrasami kids speaking, but

      They ended on pretty bad terms with Nick and alot of viewers with the Korrasami canon. I'm pretty sure another network might pick them up, but definately not nick

      Nah, probably not. You could argue they weren't on the best of terms with nick during Avatar either, but they still got picked up for Korra. Regardless, if you'll notice in their interviews Mike and Bryan specifically avoid saying bad about nick. They do still seem to care about their relationship with the network, even if fans don't.

      True. Well, we can only hope for the best...

      It's just a struggle not knowing whats going on in a very developed fantasy Avatar universe. I guess that why Pokemon, dragonball and those animes have hundreds of episodes. The difference is quality. I hope that they plan better if there is a next time

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    • Neal1027 wrote

      Fireferret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: wrote:
      i think i'm having similar feelings: although i'm also a guy, i saw a lot of my own traits in korra, and some of the struggles she went through closely mirrored some of my own, and seeing how she bounced back kind of helped me do so too a little bit. so when she was revealed to be something i'm not, it bugged me, as odd as that sounds. thanks neal for articulating that, that helped me a bit.

      that said though, i still call HUGE bs on bryan's statement about viewing the last couple books with a hetero lens. hetero female "BFFs" often behave in ways that would, in males, be considered non-hetero behavior. (at least in today's society's standards). so seeing that kind of interaction between two females in no way construes a developing romantic relationship. they even said at the end of book 2 that they were going to set the romance on the shelf for a while, which is another reason fans weren't looking for any kind of relationship development. if they wanted to properly develop this "relationship" they should have made it more explicit. apparently, they didn't even get the idea until later, which imo, was too late to execute it properly. anyway, i understand there were restrictions on what they could show, but if they couldn't show it all the way, they shouldn't have done it at all. yes, i know, baby steps with this sort of thing, but those steps should have been taken sooner in the development. the last scene of the finale shouldn't change the tone of the show so much.

      I beg to differ. As somebody who has spent a lot of time around girls, they don't act like Korra and Asami do when they're friends. Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please.

      I've spent plenty of time around girls, and gay girls, and I know how they flirt. I know how they behave when they like somebody. Sure, there were no extremely blatant moments of flirting between Korra and Asami. What do you expect? It's nickelodeon. They quite literally can't have giant blatant bursts of emotional gayness. But these characters are very clearly queer-coded, and I think part of the reason Book 3 and Book 4 korrasami gained so much traction was that other gay people could notice the queer-coding.

      For fun, here's a personal favorite Korrasami analysis that really takes time to show the ways that Korra and Asami have expressed their attraction to each other.

      Anyways, continuing on, everybody seems fixated on the "it came later" idea. But how much later is later? The scripts were written a year before the episode aired. They had already been tossing the idea around since Season 1. Clearly, in terms of gay rights, a lot has changed in that time. They've kicked the idea around, but only actually thought of adding it in sometime after they had written the episode. It was almost definitely decided pre-animation, and clearly they had the idea for a long time before then. So why does everybody seem to think this was some last-minute-out-of-nowhere happening? It wasn't.

      Honestly as I've pointed out multiple times, it's suspicious how many people will jump on the "rushed and forced" train yet won't say anything about Zhurrick. Really? They had a grand total of 3 scenes with dialogue together before getting married. All of which were in Book 4. Varrick even seemed indifferent to Zhu Li returning until his mind was suddenly changed in the finale. That was completely out of nowhere. The whole "Zhurrick" thing was forced and rushed to all hell, and it makes me laugh seeing people praise Zhurrick yet condemn Korrasami for being rushed.

      Um again, you need to re-read what you just wrote. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Verrick and Zhu Li have been working together non-stop since book 2. They have never been seperated at all, even when Verrick went to prison. I actually saw that coming eventually because he was in every book as an x-factor to alot of Team Avatar's plans. With that said, if he had stoppped showing up in episodes as an x-factor/ recurring role, I wouldn't have guessed it. 

      And Mike and Bryan said that the started thing about the Korrasami canon after book 2, because they weren't sure that Nick would pick them up for the full 4 books. They even said that if they knew from the beingnning that the show would pick them up until the end, they would have made their relationship much more developed and obvious. 

      Also, girls talk about everything to there girl freinds. Like really personal stuff, sex life, crushes, haircuts, etc. Thats doesn't imply that they are in love, it just means that they can be open with one another with no strings attcahed... bascially a shoulder to cry on, or an advisor, someone that can help you through a rough time. 

      Witht hat said again, I accept that Korrasami is canon, they creators said it, there is no point in aruging that she isn't. We are just talking about how they didn't build up to it as much as they should have to get the full audience to get the same meaning. I'm fairly positive that young teens and children didn't get the hold hand reference, or the blushing for the comment on Korra's hair, or the emotional letter writing as a way for Korra to like Asami. They only way they could have confirmed it is if they visited Brykes tumblr pages.

      Maybe you haven't noticed, but Verrick and Zhu Li have been working together non-stop since book 2.

      Of course I noticed– but there were no signs of romance with them together. There was absolutely no reason to believe Zhu Li was anything more than a hired assistant of Varrick, and she had little to no personality. They may have kept coming up, but Zhu Li still had very few lines. It may have been clear that she liked Varrick throughout book 4, but again, his marriage proposal come out of nowhere.

      And Mike and Bryan said that the started thing about the Korrasami canon after book 2, because they weren't sure that Nick would pick them up for the full 4 books. They even said that if they knew from the beingnning that the show would pick them up until the end, they would have made their relationship much more developed and obvious.

      To quote Bryan's tumblr post: "As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room."

      Also, if you take these few quotes: "Makorra was only “endgame” as far as the end of Book 1. Once we got into Book 2 we knew we were going to have them break up, and we never planned on getting them back together", "Once Mako and Korra were through, we focused on developing Korra and Asami’s relationship." " The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us"

      Since I'm almost positive production on Book 3 was beginning/ongoing while Book 2 was being written, it seems like at least since then they'd been working on developing Korra and Asami's relationship. When they did that, they thought romance seemed like a natural route to take. They'd always had the idea, but it slowly became more of a reality sometime in between books two and four. Yes, the idea did come later, but to me it looks like it came around the idea that Makorra wasn't going to be endgame, which was still early in the production phase.

      Also, girls talk about everything to there girl freinds. Like really personal stuff, sex life, crushes, haircuts, etc. Thats doesn't imply that they are in love, it just means that they can be open with one another with no strings attcahed... bascially a shoulder to cry on, or an advisor, someone that can help you through a rough time.

      All of those things are true. That's why its completely easy to read a platonic context around the first Korrasami conversation, or any of the later ones. THey all meet these reqiurements. However, just because Asami was female it doesn't mean she was any more likely to understand Korra's pain, or that she would be any easier to talk to. We've never seen Korra run to Asami for help during her dark times. IIRC, she actually usually goes to Mako. So why go to Asami now? This wasn't something only a female friend would be able to help with. It's quite frankly a little confusing, unless you read a romantic subtext behind these actions.

      It's possible to see this as platonic, but mixed with quite frankly every other piece of evidence in the show a romantic reading seems much more plausible. I'd read it as platonic with potential romantic undertones initially, but after all that's happened it simply makes the most sense to read it in a platonic light.

      I'm fairly positive that young teens and children didn't get the hold hand reference, or the blushing for the comment on Korra's hair, or the emotional letter writing as a way for Korra to like Asami. They only way they could have confirmed it is if they visited Brykes tumblr pages.

      You may have not, but young gay children may have. Have you ever heard of queer-coding? It's when writers create a subtle gay or some sort of LGBT context around a certain character that normally straight people don't pick up on. Sometimes, such as in the case of Korra, it's used in a positive way to subtly imply romantic context around certain actions to get under the radar of a major network. A key example would be the blush scene— subtle enough straight people may not read romance into it, yet LGBT people may. Often times, however, it's used in a negative context to imply LGBT tones to a villain (this one is often done unintentionally) to make them seem weird or scary. An example of this would be the crab-thing from the powerpuff girls. Or, sometimes it's done in what's called "queerbaiting" in which the writers will intentionally create gay subtext and tension inbetween two characters, but will riddle it with "i'm straight"s so that fans who may be upset by gay development will keep watching the show, however fans who pick up on the gay subtext get excited by it and keep watching to see what will happen. Ultimately, the trademark of queerbaiting would be that in the last couple of seconds the characters pull a "no homo" leaving the straight fans completely unaware, the gay fans disappointed but unsurprised, and the writers getting off with all that they've done to keep both sides of a fan group satisfied. An example of this would be Dean and Castiel from supernatural. I don't know if you've ever seen the show‚ but you can look up "Dean and Cas supernatural queerbaiting" and something will likely pop up— they're sort of the textbook example for it.

      I'm all for criticizing the writing of Korra. Trust me, it's riddled with flaws. However, the development of a Korrasami romance was actually one of the few well-developed romances in the entire Avatar universe and I'll defend it's writing until somebody can point me in the direction of a clearer romance that contains none of the symptoms normal Avatar romances suffer from. Or, until somebody can point out new flaws I hadn't yet seen in its writing.

        Loading editor
    • You want textbook queerbaiting even more obvious than Cas & Dean? So obvious even most straights pick up on it? Rizzoli & Isles. Google "Rizzles" and "Gayzoli".

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    • Cas and Dean? There's nothing between them aside from a normal friendship. Only crazy fangirls see any kind of romantic involvement between them.

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    • SaitamaBro wrote: Cas and Dean? There's nothing between them aside from a normal friendship. Only crazy fangirls see any kind of romantic involvement between them.

      Bro are you straight.

      I've never even watched the show and I can tell there's queer subtext between those two solely from gifs on tumblr that are exact quotes from what they've said...

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    • Regardless, if you'll notice in their interviews Mike and Bryan specifically avoid saying bad about nick. They do still seem to care about their relationship with the network, even if fans don't.

      Hardly. They were pretty scathing of Nick in their explanation of the clip episode. They've also not-so-subtly implied annoyance with the network several times when discussing the schedule changes.

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    • FireFerret wrote:

      Neal1027 wrote

      Fireferret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: wrote:
      i think i'm having similar feelings: although i'm also a guy, i saw a lot of my own traits in korra, and some of the struggles she went through closely mirrored some of my own, and seeing how she bounced back kind of helped me do so too a little bit. so when she was revealed to be something i'm not, it bugged me, as odd as that sounds. thanks neal for articulating that, that helped me a bit.

      that said though, i still call HUGE bs on bryan's statement about viewing the last couple books with a hetero lens. hetero female "BFFs" often behave in ways that would, in males, be considered non-hetero behavior. (at least in today's society's standards). so seeing that kind of interaction between two females in no way construes a developing romantic relationship. they even said at the end of book 2 that they were going to set the romance on the shelf for a while, which is another reason fans weren't looking for any kind of relationship development. if they wanted to properly develop this "relationship" they should have made it more explicit. apparently, they didn't even get the idea until later, which imo, was too late to execute it properly. anyway, i understand there were restrictions on what they could show, but if they couldn't show it all the way, they shouldn't have done it at all. yes, i know, baby steps with this sort of thing, but those steps should have been taken sooner in the development. the last scene of the finale shouldn't change the tone of the show so much.

      I beg to differ. As somebody who has spent a lot of time around girls, they don't act like Korra and Asami do when they're friends. Girls who are just friends don't blush when giving each other compliments. Girls who are just friends wouldn't only write to each other about their emotional stuggles. Girls who are just friends don't flip their hair, girls who are just friends don't constantly comfort each other and call each other things like "pretty" "sweet" or "snazzy". Please.

      I've spent plenty of time around girls, and gay girls, and I know how they flirt. I know how they behave when they like somebody. Sure, there were no extremely blatant moments of flirting between Korra and Asami. What do you expect? It's nickelodeon. They quite literally can't have giant blatant bursts of emotional gayness. But these characters are very clearly queer-coded, and I think part of the reason Book 3 and Book 4 korrasami gained so much traction was that other gay people could notice the queer-coding.

      For fun, here's a personal favorite Korrasami analysis that really takes time to show the ways that Korra and Asami have expressed their attraction to each other.

      Anyways, continuing on, everybody seems fixated on the "it came later" idea. But how much later is later? The scripts were written a year before the episode aired. They had already been tossing the idea around since Season 1. Clearly, in terms of gay rights, a lot has changed in that time. They've kicked the idea around, but only actually thought of adding it in sometime after they had written the episode. It was almost definitely decided pre-animation, and clearly they had the idea for a long time before then. So why does everybody seem to think this was some last-minute-out-of-nowhere happening? It wasn't.

      Honestly as I've pointed out multiple times, it's suspicious how many people will jump on the "rushed and forced" train yet won't say anything about Zhurrick. Really? They had a grand total of 3 scenes with dialogue together before getting married. All of which were in Book 4. Varrick even seemed indifferent to Zhu Li returning until his mind was suddenly changed in the finale. That was completely out of nowhere. The whole "Zhurrick" thing was forced and rushed to all hell, and it makes me laugh seeing people praise Zhurrick yet condemn Korrasami for being rushed.

      Um again, you need to re-read what you just wrote. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Verrick and Zhu Li have been working together non-stop since book 2. They have never been seperated at all, even when Verrick went to prison. I actually saw that coming eventually because he was in every book as an x-factor to alot of Team Avatar's plans. With that said, if he had stoppped showing up in episodes as an x-factor/ recurring role, I wouldn't have guessed it. 

      And Mike and Bryan said that the started thing about the Korrasami canon after book 2, because they weren't sure that Nick would pick them up for the full 4 books. They even said that if they knew from the beingnning that the show would pick them up until the end, they would have made their relationship much more developed and obvious. 

      Also, girls talk about everything to there girl freinds. Like really personal stuff, sex life, crushes, haircuts, etc. Thats doesn't imply that they are in love, it just means that they can be open with one another with no strings attcahed... bascially a shoulder to cry on, or an advisor, someone that can help you through a rough time. 

      Witht hat said again, I accept that Korrasami is canon, they creators said it, there is no point in aruging that she isn't. We are just talking about how they didn't build up to it as much as they should have to get the full audience to get the same meaning. I'm fairly positive that young teens and children didn't get the hold hand reference, or the blushing for the comment on Korra's hair, or the emotional letter writing as a way for Korra to like Asami. They only way they could have confirmed it is if they visited Brykes tumblr pages.

      Maybe you haven't noticed, but Verrick and Zhu Li have been working together non-stop since book 2.

      Of course I noticed– but there were no signs of romance with them together. There was absolutely no reason to believe Zhu Li was anything more than a hired assistant of Varrick, and she had little to no personality. They may have kept coming up, but Zhu Li still had very few lines. It may have been clear that she liked Varrick throughout book 4, but again, his marriage proposal come out of nowhere.

      And Mike and Bryan said that the started thing about the Korrasami canon after book 2, because they weren't sure that Nick would pick them up for the full 4 books. They even said that if they knew from the beingnning that the show would pick them up until the end, they would have made their relationship much more developed and obvious.

      To quote Bryan's tumblr post: "As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room."

      Also, if you take these few quotes: "Makorra was only “endgame” as far as the end of Book 1. Once we got into Book 2 we knew we were going to have them break up, and we never planned on getting them back together", "Once Mako and Korra were through, we focused on developing Korra and Asami’s relationship." " The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us"

      Since I'm almost positive production on Book 3 was beginning/ongoing while Book 2 was being written, it seems like at least since then they'd been working on developing Korra and Asami's relationship. When they did that, they thought romance seemed like a natural route to take. They'd always had the idea, but it slowly became more of a reality sometime in between books two and four. Yes, the idea did come later, but to me it looks like it came around the idea that Makorra wasn't going to be endgame, which was still early in the production phase.

      Also, girls talk about everything to there girl freinds. Like really personal stuff, sex life, crushes, haircuts, etc. Thats doesn't imply that they are in love, it just means that they can be open with one another with no strings attcahed... bascially a shoulder to cry on, or an advisor, someone that can help you through a rough time.

      All of those things are true. That's why its completely easy to read a platonic context around the first Korrasami conversation, or any of the later ones. THey all meet these reqiurements. However, just because Asami was female it doesn't mean she was any more likely to understand Korra's pain, or that she would be any easier to talk to. We've never seen Korra run to Asami for help during her dark times. IIRC, she actually usually goes to Mako. So why go to Asami now? This wasn't something only a female friend would be able to help with. It's quite frankly a little confusing, unless you read a romantic subtext behind these actions.

      It's possible to see this as platonic, but mixed with quite frankly every other piece of evidence in the show a romantic reading seems much more plausible. I'd read it as platonic with potential romantic undertones initially, but after all that's happened it simply makes the most sense to read it in a platonic light.

      I'm fairly positive that young teens and children didn't get the hold hand reference, or the blushing for the comment on Korra's hair, or the emotional letter writing as a way for Korra to like Asami. They only way they could have confirmed it is if they visited Brykes tumblr pages.

      You may have not, but young gay children may have. Have you ever heard of queer-coding? It's when writers create a subtle gay or some sort of LGBT context around a certain character that normally straight people don't pick up on. Sometimes, such as in the case of Korra, it's used in a positive way to subtly imply romantic context around certain actions to get under the radar of a major network. A key example would be the blush scene— subtle enough straight people may not read romance into it, yet LGBT people may. Often times, however, it's used in a negative context to imply LGBT tones to a villain (this one is often done unintentionally) to make them seem weird or scary. An example of this would be the crab-thing from the powerpuff girls. Or, sometimes it's done in what's called "queerbaiting" in which the writers will intentionally create gay subtext and tension inbetween two characters, but will riddle it with "i'm straight"s so that fans who may be upset by gay development will keep watching the show, however fans who pick up on the gay subtext get excited by it and keep watching to see what will happen. Ultimately, the trademark of queerbaiting would be that in the last couple of seconds the characters pull a "no homo" leaving the straight fans completely unaware, the gay fans disappointed but unsurprised, and the writers getting off with all that they've done to keep both sides of a fan group satisfied. An example of this would be Dean and Castiel from supernatural. I don't know if you've ever seen the show‚ but you can look up "Dean and Cas supernatural queerbaiting" and something will likely pop up— they're sort of the textbook example for it.

      I'm all for criticizing the writing of Korra. Trust me, it's riddled with flaws. However, the development of a Korrasami romance was actually one of the few well-developed romances in the entire Avatar universe and I'll defend it's writing until somebody can point me in the direction of a clearer romance that contains none of the symptoms normal Avatar romances suffer from. Or, until somebody can point out new flaws I hadn't yet seen in its writing.

      Thanks for your response, means alot. I guess I'll have to re-watch the series with non-hetro lens like the creaters suggested.

      But I mean, in HIMYM, Lilly wanted to makout with Robin all the time throughout the nine seasons until it actually happened at the end. It doesn't mean that shes bisexual or gay since she was already married to Marshall and they've been together for over 15 years in the show.

      My point is that I get your take on the romance. I understand it, and I accept it. The creaters saw it as an oppurtunity and they took it. It could have just as easily gone the other way.

      All in all, thanks FireFerret, you cleared up alot of my confusion. Also, I only say Zhu Li and Verrick together because in other shows, the girl that goes unnoticed usually ends up being with the other person. Like before Zhu Li expressed her love to Verrick, Verrick never saw her at not his assistant. But when she did express her love, Verrick saw her in a whole new way, which I thought was evident.

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    • There's a big difference between HIMYM and LoK though, HIMYM is geared for adults so they're allowed to show lgbtq and heteroflexible people as human, instead of not at all (which is how many of us organizations like 1 million moms want to be alive. I seriously fcking hate them and their incredibly misleading name)

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    • FireFerret wrote:

      Neal1027 wrote:

      FireFerret wrote:

      Intelligence4 wrote: sadly, i don't think we're getting the next avatar. bryke said they want to step away for a while and do something different.

      we'll still have the atla comics though, which is nice, even if we have to wait a long while for the next one (almost a year! :(   )

      considering nick's treatment of korra and the viewership ratings it got while on air, i don't think we're going to be getting any more korra content even planned anytime soon.

      and i guess bryke also said they wouldn't want to do Avatar in a modern world, which means they wouldn't write about the next avatar if (that's a huge if) they did another series. (unless the world just didn't develop at all...?)

      To be fair on this, they did say they were moving on to other projects at the end of Avatar, yet Korra did still happen and here we are.

      I honestly hope that one day in perhaps five years they will pick back up the Avatar franchise and continue working with it in some new way. They've said other things in the past they haven't kept their word on like that "Mako and Korra were meant for each other" so I don't think that necessarily means they'll never go into the future. This may just be my desire to see Korrasami kids speaking, but

      They ended on pretty bad terms with Nick and alot of viewers with the Korrasami canon. I'm pretty sure another network might pick them up, but definately not nick

      Nah, probably not. You could argue they weren't on the best of terms with nick during Avatar either, but they still got picked up for Korra. Regardless, if you'll notice in their interviews Mike and Bryan specifically avoid saying bad about nick. They do still seem to care about their relationship with the network, even if fans don't.

      Instead of the ATLA comics, did you know that Bryke pitched to Nick about making a two hour long movie to connect ATLA to Korra? How awesome would that have been?!? Instead of waiting years and years for comics to come out. Too bad Nick denied them. It's alos Nicks faults for Korra's drop in ratings. The kept changing the show times, moving up season dates without any marketing, and also cut founding in book 4 equivlent to producing 1 episode. That's why in episode 8, I believe, Mako tells Prince Wu about his love life so that they could reuse artwork and designs from past seasons to save money. It'd be hard to imagine that the creaters are still happy with Nick. Personally, I think Nick needs to rebuild their staff. I mean the also cancelled so many good shows like iCarly, Victorius, Sam and Cat, etc. Despite those setbacks, LOK still had millions of fan watching, 2-3 million to be accurate

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    • Obviously the creators aren't happy, (and the current Nick heads probably aren't huge Avatar fans) but after a change of staff I doubt it would be hard for them to get picked up again. They may subtly express their frustrations with the network, especially in regards to the switch of times, but they never go to outright insulting, which they actually have done with something like "The Last Airbender." In fact, in Bryan's blogpost he still praises nick for letting them do what they did, even though nickelodeon actually censored them from doing all they would have wanted.

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    • I wouldn't insult Nick for going as far as everyone else is willing to go either.

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    • FireFerret wrote:
      Obviously the creators aren't happy, (and the current Nick heads probably aren't huge Avatar fans) but after a change of staff I doubt it would be hard for them to get picked up again. They may subtly express their frustrations with the network, especially in regards to the switch of times, but they never go to outright insulting, which they actually have done with something like "The Last Airbender." In fact, in Bryan's blogpost he still praises nick for letting them do what they did, even though nickelodeon actually censored them from doing all they would have wanted.

      I guess forbes feels the same way I do...

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/12/28/netflixs-next-original-series-should-be-a-new-avatar-show/

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    • "I will say that this universe is too incredible to simply disappear, and if it does live on, it obviously needs to find a new home other than Nickelodeon. I think Netflix might be it"


      This quote right here. We need to save the universe.

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    • They're going to make LoK comics continuing the whole portal vacation and such. 

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    • It has been confirmed that both Korra and Asami are bisexual

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    • Jace Parker wrote: It has been confirmed that both Korra and Asami are bisexual

      Source

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    • It would have made absolutely no sense for Konietzko to mention bisexuality in that context unless he was talking about our favorite badass girlfriends.  Not that it isn't rather academic, seeing as they're totally going to get married and spend the rest of their lives together.

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    • I'm just curious if that "confirmation" is something new, or old news.

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    • I thought it was tremendously clear that she was bisexual. 

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    • NAH, I'm pretty sure it was just a stunt. But I do think Prince Wu is bi and has a crush on Mako-now there's a ship with some obvious hints(especially on  Wu's part). 

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    • AvatarKatar wrote: I thought it was tremendously clear that she was bisexual. 

      As I've stated before, a person determining their sexual identity and orientation as same-gender is not necessarily bi, just because they used to try het dating. What makes them bisexual is if they *continue* dating both het and gay once they've made their determination.

      In other words, neither Asami and or Korra are bisexual because they dated Mako. To be bisexual, it would have to be one and or the other were to date a guy in the future.

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    • No, by that logic, a closeted man with a wife is straight.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      AvatarKatar wrote: I thought it was tremendously clear that she was bisexual. 

      As I've stated before, a person determining their sexual identity and orientation as same-gender is not necessarily bi, just because they used to try het dating. What makes them bisexual is if they *continue* dating both het and gay once they've made their determination.

      In other words, neither Asami and or Korra are bisexual because they dated Mako. To be bisexual, it would have to be one and or the other were to date a guy in the future.

      That makes no sense in the slightest. Dspite my personal feelings on Korrasami, it is official that they are LGBT. In the blog post, Bryan specifically mentions "bisexuals". Yet you're going on here raving that it's not the case because they're not going to date a straight guy or something of the likes in the near future? Well, they're a couple now so of course they're probably not going to have a boyfriend unless it's an open relationship or a threeway one or something of the likes. They both have been attracted to guys as we've seen with their affections for Mako, and by the end of the series, became attracted to one another.

      "What makes them bisexual is if they continue dating both het and gay once they've made their determination"

      First off, male and female fit better in that since it's the gender that attracts them not the sexuality.

      Secondly, that's not true in the slightest. If you're in a committed relationship of any kind that you want to keep you're going to date one person and one person only, your significant other. But you can still be sexually attracted to the other sex despite being in a relationship with the other or same sex. If a bi woman gets married to a guy, is she forever straight? Does her attraction to women go away? If a bi woman marries a girl, is she forever a lesbian? Does her attraction to men go away?

      There's a lot of logical flaws in your argument, it just sounds like a bunch of nonsense. On top of that, we don't know if they're going to date "another guy in the future" because as far as we know, they're committed to each other but still very well are attracted to men both of them. For all we know, Korra and Asami could probably relax at the beach checking out guys or something.

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    • Both Korra and Asami were attracted to Mako. Saying they are not bissexuals is asinine.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      No, by that logic, a closeted man with a wife is straight.

      Yeah, pretty much this, along with what AvatarKatar said.  It's about interest, not about whether or not they act on it.

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    • SaitamaBro wrote: Both Korra and Asami were attracted to Mako. Saying they are not bissexuals is asinine.

      Korra was sequestered away for all of her life and Mako literally the 2nd outside guy her age she met that she did not fight. How is she to *know* if she is not heterosexual unless she *try* it? That is what happens with most people before the determine their true orientation.

      As far as we know, Asami never dated before. So AFAWK, Mako is her first dating experience. How is *she* to know or determine her orientation without having tried? Because Het is the *expected norm*, so youths generally at least *try* a series of het experiences before determining if they are bi or lesbian or gay.

      Trying het dating does not make a person "bi". I used an analogy of lefft&right shoes. You can force a foot into the wrong shoe. It will not be comfortable. You might even manage to break it in so you get a "measure of comfort", but once you place your foot in the proper shoes, you wonder why you put up with the wrong one for so long.

      The fact you forced your—let's say "right"—foot into the wrong shoe, even wearing it for an extended period, does not change the FACT that shoe is a left shoe; on the wrong foot. That shoe is not "bi-footal", it remains a Left Shoe.

      Same for determination of sexual orientation. A person can date he, essentially "forcing" themselves to do what they think is expected. Or that they themselves have no way of truly knowing until they try.

      To complete the analogy, some footwear (slippers, socks, etc) are designed to be worn on either foot, "bi-footal" (I know, "bipedal" is the proper terminology, but I'm trying to keep it easily related to "foot") if you will. Your foot will be equally comfortable in either of a pair of the footwear, and unless a person enforces a preference due to factors such as design aesthetics (I want the scrollwork to point to *that side* of the foot…).

      But because a person spent a period of time with a series of het experiences, that does not make them "bisexual". It only means they *tried* the shoe on the wrong foot, but eventually recognized what made them the most comfortable.

      I'm not arguing that Bryke used "bisexual" in one of their blogs. I *will* wonder if *they understand* that "bisexual because they dated Mako" is not what makes the bisexual. It is the *willingness*—acted on or not—to be sexual with or attracted to any guys in the future, which determines if they are bisexual.

      And I say this because I deal with clients who anguish under that reasoning from their friends and family: "Lesbian? But honey, you dated A, B, and C, so you can't be a lesbian! At best you have to be bisexual (optional added phrase: so I can have grandkids one day)."

      But I asked for a source, to know if the "confirmation a couple posts up was something new (like a comic or new blog), or from the original Bryke blogs.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: No, by that logic, a closeted man with a wife is straight.

      And often he THINKS he is and TRIES to be straight. Living a life which brings them no true comfort or overall joy. Grace and Frankie has two long term married men leaving their wives to be with each other. Happily Divorced has a married man Come Out to his wife after 18 years of marriage. And those are just a couple of the comedies, not dramas played straight (because I don't want to relax from my day job with dramas about it).

      These characters are not pitched to the audience as bisexuals because they lived a significant part of their lives forced into "Hetero Shoes". They are Gay who finally are deciding to live their lives happy.

      But for all those years married with wives and even children? They were straight to everyone who knew them then.

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    • I think it's hilarious that you decided to double down on that when you could have just said, "I misspoke," & that probably would've been the end of it.

      Look, nobody even said that gay people never have straight relationships. I specifically gave the example of a closeted man with a wife, & nobody challenged it.

      They clearly know, they don't need you to lecture them on a straw man. They're just telling you exactly what I told you, "You're bisexual if you want to date men in the future" is a terribly misleading statement.

      What's even funnier to me is that I was totally thinking of including a 2nd line with some smarmy comment about how that came from a "Not At All Fake Sex Therapist." I obviously decided not to, but I guess if I don't decide to go out of my way to embarrass you, you'll just do it for me.

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    • Korra was sequestered away for all of her life and Mako literally the 2nd outside guy her age she met that she did not fight. How is she to *know* if she is not heterosexual unless she *try* it? That is what happens with most people before the determine their true orientation.

      Lmfao, so was Asami. So by that logic she's also not a lesbian or bisexual because Asami was the first girl she met outside of her sheltered life. She had to be attracted to men before she decided to go after Mako, that was the entire point of that subplot that she had the hots for Mako and wanted him. If she wasn't sure on her "sexuality", how in Christ's name would she want to be with Mako? To experiment? That doesn't seem to be her attitude when she finally did become his girlfriend.

      As far as we know, Asami never dated before. So AFAWK, Mako is her first dating experience. How is *she* to know or determine her orientation without having tried? Because Het is the *expected norm*, so youths generally at least *try* a series of het experiences before determining if they are bi or lesbian or gay. 

      Christ, my head hurts. First off, that's quite the fucking jump to assume Asami never dated men before. And you don't have the excuse of "she lived in a sheltered life away from people." Because she seems to be well educated, seems to have been around the town a few times in a literal since. So what makes you so sure that she's never had a boyfriend before? Or that she never had an actual attraction to Mako because again, she had to be attracted to him before wanting to be with him. It's not "het" normality, she's probably most likely attracted to men because why would she want to be with a man like Mako because let's face it, what woman would want to be with Mako for anything other than his looks? It's not like he has a personality.

      Trying het dating does not make a person "bi". I used an analogy of lefft&right shoes. You can force a foot into the wrong shoe. It will not be comfortable. You might even manage to break it in so you get a "measure of comfort", but once you place your foot in the proper shoes, you wonder why you put up with the wrong one for so long.

      That's a pretty stupid metaphor because for one, Asami and Korra never expressed discomfort being Mako. hell, Asami and Mako had a scene which highly indicated that they were going to absolutely fuck and Asami never expressed discomfort in ANY scenes that she's in with Mako in Books 1 or 2, and it was even her that kissed Mako in Book Two while at a warehouse.

      The fact you forced your—let's say "right"—foot into the wrong shoe, even wearing it for an extended period, does not change the FACT that shoe is a left shoe; on the wrong foot. That shoe is not "bi-footal", it remains a Left Shoe.

      Lol, for a liberal that full on supports LGBT rights, you're sure as hell giving an argument that the B in LGBT isn't real. Also, there are shoes that fit any foot.

      Same for determination of sexual orientation. A person can date he, essentially "forcing" themselves to do what they think is expected. Or that they themselves have no way of truly knowing until they try.

      Again, Korra and Asami never expressed any kind of discomfort in being with a man nor did they do it under pressure of "social norms" which is stupid because we don't know what the social norms are in Republic City. They did force themselves on to him but that doesn't mean experimentation, that means they're attracted to him and essentially want him. And to say that is to imply they know they're "lesbians" but are trying out men to see how that's like. If they're trying to experiment then shouldn't Asami and Korra go out with each other in Book 1 instead of Mako to go against the "Het" normality you're raving about?

      To complete the analogy, some footwear (slippers, socks, etc) are designed to be worn on either foot, "bi-footal" (I know, "bipedal" is the proper terminology, but I'm trying to keep it easily related to "foot") if you will. Your foot will be equally comfortable in either of a pair of the footwear, and unless a person enforces a preference due to factors such as design aesthetics (I want the scrollwork to point to *that side* of the foot…).

      And so Korra and Asami aren't this because?

      But because a person spent a period of timewith a series of het experiences, that does not make them "bisexual". It only means they *tried* the shoe on the wrong foot, but eventually recognized what made them the most comfortable.

      Uh huh, and if they don't feel comfortable wearing the gay shoes and go back to wearing straight ones then what? Your analogy of comparing sexuality to shoes is horrible, because sexuality is not about comfort it's about what you're attracted to. I'm attracted to women because they're what I'm interested in, most men on here are probably attracted to women not because of your Tumblrism "Het normality" but because they have a sexual urging for a woman to have as a significant other. I can assure you that Korra and Asami themselves are attracted to both sexes due to their urge for Mako and then their urge for each other. If you dated a fat slob who calls you a retarded bitch and you're uncomfortable in that relationship, would that make you gay? No, it just means you're not comfortable dating that particular person. For someone who advocates for the end of everyday social norms you sure do see the world in such black and white lenses and never let up on it and instead you use this tumblr-esque mumbo jumbo to exasperate things that were originally simple and easy to grasp.

      I'm not arguing that Bryke used "bisexual" in one of their blogs. I *will* wonder if *they understand* that "bisexual because they dated Mako" is not what makes the bisexual. It is the *willingness*—acted on or not—to be sexual with or attracted to any guys in the future, which determines if they are bisexual. 

      It's the word of God. They say she's bisexual based on what they know about bisexuality and so they are what they say they are. Not like it fucking matters because they're not fucking real and their actions are determine by their writers not themselves. If in the new comics they fuck a guy together, are they still purely gay?

      And I say this because I deal with clients who anguish under that reasoning from their friends and family: "Lesbian? But honey, you dated A, B, and C, so you can't be a lesbian! At best you have to be bisexual (optional added phrase: so I can have grandkids one day)."

      It's true that some lesbian might date a few guys before coming out but to assume that's the case for everyone is false.

      But I asked for a source, to know if the "confirmation a couple posts up was something new (like a comic or new blog), or from the original Bryke blogs.

      It was in the original Bryan blog about Korrasami where he specifically mentions representing "bisexuals". Frankly that blogs contradicts itself with almost every other paragraph but that's my own interpretation of it. But you just boggle my mind with your posts. It's like arguing with a brick wall in that you're so dense about these subjects that you refuse to even consider other possibilities and instead retreat into your John Money-esque insanity. I'm horrified if you actually are a sex therapist because you seem to be someone who exasperate people's problems and confusion on themselves then actually help them.

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    • About Asami I said, "As far as we know". Do you KNOW if Asami dated ANYONE before Mako, cause if it was indicated in the canon somewhere, I missed it. Please point me to it.

      Otherwise, it is not a *jump*, NOR is it an "assumption" to only use the information we have been given. I clearly qualified the statement with "As far as we know" and "AFAWK".

      I'm also not saying that "the B in LGBT isn't real". It is real. But it is 1) only something the individual (IRL) can determine for and about themselves, and 2) based not upon past dating/attraction experiences, but their future dating/attractions after their determination.

      Now, IRL today, there is more awareness about alternative lifestyle choices than there used to be in decades past. So IRL today, youths are able to make self-determinations at earlier ages than when *I* was Korra and Asami's ages. But that doesn't negate the fact that there are still some who go through a "journey of self-discovery".

      And "journey" it can be. Het-normative attractions can be real, or they can be what they feel is expected of them. That journey can be as short as one date or boyfriend, it can be after a series of het-attempts, it can be after *years* in a het relationship. It can even lay dormant, tucked away, or never really self-examined until the right individual comes along. For Korrasami, their self-determination came after Mako, the only guy we know both had experience with. We know Korra was shut away from guys her own age, we don't know exactly what Asami's past dating/attraction experiences are, yet as far as we know he is the first/only one.

      Again, when Jace Parker said a few posts back "it's been confirmed", well, this is a year and a half after the series ended. So why is it unreasonable to ask for a clarification of that confirmation. I don't follow comic books anymore, my only information is the canon and what these various threads source from with links. So I wanted to know if Jace Parker's statement was based upon something new, or upon what we already know. Cause if it's new, I'd like to know it. If it is the old/original Bryke blogs, then it is old information I'm already privy to.

      As for my practice, note that I've stated that I'm often dealing with my patients' friends and family and what they are telling them. I did not discuss what or how I deal with my clients, just what they have to deal with in their lives. And in generalities, since I can't discuss specifics of any one patient.

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    • About Asami I said, "As far as we know". Do you KNOW if Asami dated ANYONE before Mako, cause if it was indicated in the canon somewhere, I missed it. Please point me to it. Otherwise, it is not a *jump*, NOR is it an "assumption" to only use the information we have been given. I clearly qualified the statement with "As far as we know" and "AFAWK".


      It is a jump and it is an assumption that you made by declaring that because we never heard of her with any relationship, straight or gay, she must be a lesbian without any proof that she didn't. Granted it's true I can't prove it, but I believe for someone like Asami who is an attractive young adult and chased after Mako after knowing very little about him on a personal level tends to tell me other wise that she might have had boyfriends or lovers before if she's willing to do that. Is that technically an assumption? Sure, but the difference is you're trying to advocate that she's a lesbian only dating Mako because of hetero normality and the assumption that she's never been with men, I'm trying to say she's probably has had relationships before and she's going after Mako because she finds him hot. Which is the more far fetched one?

      I'm also not saying that "the B in LGBT isn't real". It is real. But it is 1) only something the individual (IRL) can determine for and about themselves, and 2) based not upon past dating/attraction experiences, but their future dating/attractions after their determination.


      It doesn't really matter if they date other men or women because it's not who they're involved with, it's what they're attracted to. I know bisexuals who are in a opposite sex relationship and are still sexually attracted to the same sex. Your idea that it's based on their future endeavors is absolutely flawed on the basis of they still hold attraction to the same/other sex.

      Now, IRL today, there is more awareness about alternative lifestyle choices than there used to be in decades past. So IRL today, youths are able to make self-determinations at earlier ages than when *I* was Korra and Asami's ages. But that doesn't negate the fact that there are still some who go through a "journey of self-discovery".


      I like how you made the distinction between real life and fantasy and then went back into the fantasy part of your argument almost immediately. I know there's a journey of self-discovery but it doesn't matter nor does it really apply to Korra and Asami because we never actually see the "journey of self-discovery" in a sexual way at any point in the show. You could argue it happened when they left through the spirit portal but that seems kind of odd.

      And "journey" it can be. Het-normative attractions can be real, or they can be what they feel is expected of them. That journey can be as short as one date or boyfriend, it can be after a series of het-attempts, it can be after *years* in a het relationship. It can even lay dormant, tucked away, or never really self-examined until the right individual comes along. For Korrasami, their self-determination came after Mako, the only guy we know both had experience with. We know Korra was shut away from guys her own age, we don't know exactly what Asami's past dating/attraction experiences are, yet as far as we know he is the first/only one.


      Look, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter the journey of self-discovery to Korra and Asami because Korra and Asami aren't real. You're treating them as if they're real people going through the life styles of our world which they aren't, they're drawings in a cartoon where they bend the elements. To treat them as if they're real is to imply that they have independent thoughts and actions which they don't, they're at the mercy of the writers and only them, only someone who is truly insane would believe otherwise. If Korra and Asami never date a man again because the writers want to keep them together, that doesn't mean they're lesbians. You're assuming they are by pulling some crap about sex physiology and applying it to fictional characters' presumed psychology and nonexistent history (which is also at the helms of the writers) when it's supposed to apply to real people. You're assuming that not only does "het" normality exists in the Avatar universe but you're also putting in a bunch of stuff in there that the creators probably don't even know about. It's a world created by two guys taking inspiration from our world, it doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% our world. That's why it's called a "fantasy".

      Again, when Jace Parker said a few posts back "it's been confirmed", well, this is a year and a half after the series ended. So why is it unreasonable to ask for a clarification of that confirmation. I don't follow comic books anymore, my only information is the canon and what these various threads source from with links. So I wanted to know if Jace Parker's statement was based upon something new, or upon what we already know. Cause if it's new, I'd like to know it. If it is the old/original Bryke blogs, then it is old information I'm already privy to.


      It's not unreasonable but that's not why people are replying to you. It's not that you're asking for an citation, you're trying to advocate that Asami and Korra are something they're not.

      As for my practice, note that I've stated that I'm often dealing with my patients' friends and family and what they are telling them. I did not discuss what or how I deal with my clients, just what they have to deal with in their lives. And in generalities, since I can't discuss specifics of any one patient.


      Fair enough but by judging on your stance on a quite a few subjects and your own personal beliefs which you clearly display, if I had a child and found out you were their sex therapist, I'd have a heart attack.

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    • So.  On the one end of this, we've got the presumption that compulsory heterosexuality definitely exists in the Avatarverse and the unironic use of the phrase "alternative lifestyle choices" (or of the word "lifestyle" at all, to be honest).  On the other?  Attribution of sociological terms to a website which is less than ten years old and is the origin of nothing except the notion that it's the origin of anything...to say nothing of a helluva lot of scare quotes.

      Right.

      It remains that the context under which Konietzko mentioned bisexuality in his confirmation post makes it clear that he was, in fact, referring to the badass girlfriends.

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    • AvatarKatar wrote:

      About Asami I said, "As far as we know". Do you KNOW if Asami dated ANYONE before Mako, cause if it was indicated in the canon somewhere, I missed it. Please point me to it. Otherwise, it is not a *jump*, NOR is it an "assumption" to only use the information we have been given. I clearly qualified the statement with "As far as we know" and "AFAWK".


      It is a jump and it is an assumption that you made by declaring that because we never heard of her with any relationship, straight or gay, she must be a lesbian without any proof that she didn't. Granted it's true I can't prove it, but I believe for someone like Asami who is an attractive young adult and chased after Mako after knowing very little about him on a personal level tends to tell me other wise that she might have had boyfriends or lovers before if she's willing to do that. Is that technically an assumption? Sure, but the difference is you're trying to advocate that she's a lesbian only dating Mako because of hetero normality and the assumption that she's never been with men, I'm trying to say she's probably has had relationships before and she's going after Mako because she finds him hot. Which is the more far fetched one?

      [Not going to struggle with the Div-codes to get this right, so BOLD is my responses] I never said Asami is a lesbian because of what we don't know of her past. I said: As far as we know. That is the qualifier here. Because if there was something about her past we needed to know, it would have/should have been told to us. Wouldn't take more than "I usually don't have to run guys over to get them to go to dinner with me" or *something* of the like.

      Still, "As far as we know" both qualifies and acknowledges the limitations and even potential flaw of the statement it is attached to, but does not negate it.

      I'm also not saying that "the B in LGBT isn't real". It is real. But it is 1) only something the individual (IRL) can determine for and about themselves, and 2) based not upon past dating/attraction experiences, but their future dating/attractions after their determination.


      It doesn't really matter if they date other men or women because it's not who they're involved with, it's what they're attracted to. I know bisexuals who are in a opposite sex relationship and are still sexually attracted to the same sex. Your idea that it's based on their future endeavors is absolutely flawed on the basis of they still hold attraction to the same/other sex.

      "I know bisexuals who are in a opposite sex relationship and are still sexually attracted to the same sex."

      Well, sure, that *is* the definition of "bisexual", the willingness to act upon the attraction to either gender. It is still a label which can only be applied *after* the individual self-determines. All that they did before that does not apply to the label. And that is what a lot of friends and family heap on them. "But, you're not a lesbian because you dated x, y, and z. You must be bisexual".

      And that is the statement I have an issue with. "Korra and Asami are bisexual *because* they dated Mako." It is not whom they dated *in the past*, it is whom they are willing to be with and or attracted to in the future that determines their label.

      Now, IRL today, there is more awareness about alternative lifestyle choices than there used to be in decades past. So IRL today, youths are able to make self-determinations at earlier ages than when *I* was Korra and Asami's ages. But that doesn't negate the fact that there are still some who go through a "journey of self-discovery".


      I like how you made the distinction between real life and fantasy and then went back into the fantasy part of your argument almost immediately. I know there's a journey of self-discovery but it doesn't matter nor does it really apply to Korra and Asami because we never actually see the "journey of self-discovery" in a sexual way at any point in the show. You could argue it happened when they left through the spirit portal but that seems kind of odd.

      Perhaps because I'm actually not so much addressing KORRA and ASAMI, as much as I'm addressing THE FALLACIOUSNESS of the statement "they are bi because they dated Mako", and the mindset which insists *that* is how you determine if someone is Bi or Lesbian. Again, that is BEFORE they started dating each other. A *truer* statement is "Korra and Asami are bi DESPITE having dated Mako."

      It is the mindset which makes these statements which needs to be examined, because even though Korrasami is fictional, a viewer's *mindset* will be prevalent in real life.

      And "journey" it can be. Het-normative attractions can be real, or they can be what they feel is expected of them. That journey can be as short as one date or boyfriend, it can be after a series of het-attempts, it can be after *years* in a het relationship. It can even lay dormant, tucked away, or never really self-examined until the right individual comes along. For Korrasami, their self-determination came after Mako, the only guy we know both had experience with. We know Korra was shut away from guys her own age, we don't know exactly what Asami's past dating/attraction experiences are, yet as far as we know he is the first/only one.


      Look, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter the journey of self-discovery to Korra and Asami because Korra and Asami aren't real. You're treating them as if they're real people going through the life styles of our world which they aren't, they're drawings in a cartoon where they bend the elements. To treat them as if they're real is to imply that they have independent thoughts and actions which they don't, they're at the mercy of the writers and only them, only someone who is truly insane would believe otherwise. If Korra and Asami never date a man again because the writers want to keep them together, that doesn't mean they're lesbians. You're assuming they are by pulling some crap about sex physiology and applying it to fictional characters' presumed psychology and nonexistent history (which is also at the helms of the writers) when it's supposed to apply to real people. You're assuming that not only does "het" normality exists in the Avatar universe but you're also putting in a bunch of stuff in there that the creators probably don't even know about. It's a world created by two guys taking inspiration from our world, it doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% our world. That's why it's called a "fantasy".

      Real Life people look to these shows, fictions, and fantasies and most treat them as life lessons and affirmations. As is shown by how many have commented for or against Korrasami in a "childrens show". Some have written how they are glad or otherwise find affirmation through this and other shows which give a measure of representation which resonates in their own RL life experiences.

      So being a "fantasy" is not the issue. Because Real People are looking at these things and TRYING to apply them in their lives. And if the Writers or factions of the fans *don't get it completely right*, then we professionals end up with Real People on our couches, and the first thing we have to do is teach them the difference between what they thought they learned, and what they really need to learn.

      Again, when Jace Parker said a few posts back "it's been confirmed", well, this is a year and a half after the series ended. So why is it unreasonable to ask for a clarification of that confirmation. I don't follow comic books anymore, my only information is the canon and what these various threads source from with links. So I wanted to know if Jace Parker's statement was based upon something new, or upon what we already know. Cause if it's new, I'd like to know it. If it is the old/original Bryke blogs, then it is old information I'm already privy to.


      It's not unreasonable but that's not why people are replying to you. It's not that you're asking for an citation, you're trying to advocate that Asami and Korra are something they're not.

      Again, no. I'm addressing a fallacious understanding and mindset *of the fans*. Even with Bryke telling us they are bisexual—and I reserve the right to my opinion *they* may not have the correct understanding of it—it is still NOT "because they dated Mako"—a statement most often made by viewers—it is at best "despite dating Mako".

      There is a difference.

      As for if there is a difference between bisexuals and Lesbians-in-a-forever-committed-relationship… sure, there are a few minor diffs. But they are like the *visual* differences between Oreos and Hydrox; not really easy to spot at a casual glance.

      As for my practice, note that I've stated that I'm often dealing with my patients' friends and family and what they are telling them. I did not discuss what or how I deal with my clients, just what they have to deal with in their lives. And in generalities, since I can't discuss specifics of any one patient.


      Fair enough but by judging on your stance on a quite a few subjects and your own personal beliefs which you clearly display, if I had a child and found out you were their sex therapist, I'd have a heart attack.

      You'd have to know that I and your child's therapist are the same person.

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    • [Not going to struggle with the Div-codes to get this right, so BOLD is my responses]

      I never said Asami is a lesbian because of what we don't know of her past. I said: As far as we know. That is the qualifier here. Because if there was something about her past we needed to know, it would have/should have been told to us. Wouldn't take more than "I usually don't have to run guys over to get them to go to dinner with me" or *something* of the like.


      Then what were you going on about over the bisexual crap? Were you just trying to inject your personal politics where it doesn't need to be?

      Still, "As far as we know" both qualifies and acknowledges the limitations and even potential flaw of the statement it is attached to, but does not negate it.Not really, it was incredibly easy to see that it was a bisexual romance. Because you know, they both an attraction to men. ' Well, sure, that *is* the definition of "bisexual", the willingness to act upon the attraction to either gender. It is still a label which can only be applied *after* the individual self-determines. All that they did before that does not apply to the label. And that is what a lot of friends and family heap on them. "But, you're not a lesbian because you dated x, y, and z. You must be bisexual".'And that is the statement I have an issue with. "Korra and Asami are bisexual *because* they dated Mako." It is not whom they dated *in the past*, it is whom they are willing to be with and or attracted to in the future that determines their label.


      You keep saying that, but that doesn't matter when these fictional characters that are not real. Not real. Are confirmed to be bisexual by the creators themselves and are only going to do what the writer wants them and are what the writers wants them to be because they're not real, so any idea that they're anything other than bisexual is asinine. I have to keep bringing that point up because you keep acting like they are. I'm a massive hypocrite for partaking into this argument with a woman supposedly around the same age as my mom but I'm the offender in an argument and so I must use cards I'm dealt with to get somewhere. They are bisexual. There is no argument. They did not at any point think or felt the way you describe they should think or feel because the writers didn't make that so. Calm the hell down.

      Perhaps because I'm actually not so much addressing KORRA and ASAMI, as much as I'm addressing THE FALLACIOUSNESS of the statement "they are bi because they dated Mako", and the mindset which insists *that* is how you determine if someone is Bi or Lesbian. Again, that is BEFORE they started dating each other. A *truer* statement is "Korra and Asami are bi DESPITE having dated Mako."


      Well you almost got, that's something.

      It is the mindset which makes these statements which needs to be examined, because even though Korrasami is fictional, a viewer's *mindset* will be prevalent in real life.


      The mindset that a letter and a few blushes makes you gay? In all seriousness, yes, a viewer will take what they see from a show as they wish and that could be good to give a new prospective on things. However, taking all their life lessons on these cartoons as oppose to just taking them into consideration isn't good. Especially when the material given isn't well written. It's my own honest opinion that something poorly portrayed such as sexuality in this show could potentially harm the viewers' outlook on sex and confuse them further. When I was a kid watching the original show, I got hooked by the story it was telling not the "statements" it was making. I only came to appreciate those statements when I grew older because it was a perfect marriage with the story as a whole and came to give my own interpretations on these kind of subjects with time as oppose to just taking what the show taught me directly. This isn't Sesame Street.

      Real Life people look to these shows, fictions, and fantasies and most treat them as life lessons and affirmations. As is shown by how many have commented for or against Korrasami in a "childrens show". Some have written how they are glad or otherwise find affirmation through this and other shows which give a measure of representation which resonates in their own RL life experiences.


      That's the problem, you shouldn't have to be pushing this kind of crap so you can fill in your insecurities about not being represented and just enjoy the damn show. I'm hispanic. My ethnicity isn't represented in LoK or Last Airbender. And I never gave a shit, I love Avatar because I love the story, I hate Korra because it was more concerned with being inclusive than telling a good story. I was mature and secure enough to be comfortable with having a show filled with mostly pale people and a few browns than going full on triggered crying "Aye yai yai! No estoy siendo representado!"

      So being a "fantasy" is not the issue. Because Real People are looking at these things and TRYING to apply them in their lives. And if the Writers or factions of the fans *don't get it completely right*, then we professionals end up with Real People on our couches, and the first thing we have to do is teach them the difference between what they thought they learned, and what they really need to learn.


      I've rarely seen that thought as a good thing. Because to take that at face value is like trying to live in a fantasy then coming to terms with this on your own accords and facing the reality of the world we live in than a fictionalized version of it where in only 70 years, the Avatar world went from ancient Asia to Roaring 20s America.

      Again, no. I'm addressing a fallacious understanding and mindset *of the fans*. Even with Bryke telling us they are bisexual—and I reserve the right to my opinion *they* may not have the correct understanding of it—it is still NOT "because they dated Mako"—a statement most often made by viewers—it is at best "despite dating Mako".


      You're making one that has no ground to stand on. Again, you're trying to apply real world logic into a fantasy world. You're trying to say it might not be the case that Korra and Asami are not bisexual because the only guy we've seen them have interest in was Mako despite almost everyone else, perhaps maybe even bisexuals themselves, disagreeing with you. I don't think that's your fancy pancy word for "ignorance", I think that's because they know and understand what it means to be bisexual. To have an attraction to both sexes. What you're trying to say with Korrasami is irrelevant because they're not real individuals making these decisions, they're characters being written to do what the writer wants them to do that you're trying to fill in with ideas that aren't there. Yeah, you do have a right to an opinion but that doesn't make you correct. Most of us think you're wrong and are challenging your ideas with just basic logic. There is no proof in universe, no proof from the creators themselves, that what your saying has any ground in that universe. Not our universe. Not our social norms. But their own established world they live in. What we get from this show should be a memorable story telling experience not pandering or the pushing of personal politics or to make people feel included in something insignificant as a cartoon for families because no kid is going to question their sexuality at 7 and no adult is going to reassess their sexual preference through a bunch of romantic hints in a Nickelodeon show. I'm not saying it's not possible for that happen. It does happen but I've rarely seen a positive example of it.

      'There is a difference.'As for if there is a difference between bisexuals and Lesbians-in-a-forever-committed-relationship… sure, there are a few minor diffs. But they are like the *visual* differences between Oreos and Hydrox; not really easy to spot at a casual glance.


      Well you don't know anything about a person until you ask. And if that's just a casual glance then what's the point. All you know is that it's two people in a relationship.

      You'd have to know that I and your child's therapist are the same person.


      OH MY FUCKING GOD, IT'S HAPPENING But in all seriousness, thanks for proving my point.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:

      So.  On the one end of this, we've got the presumption that compulsory heterosexuality definitely exists in the Avatarverse and the unironic use of the phrase "alternative lifestyle choices" (or of the word "lifestyle" at all, to be honest).  On the other?  Attribution of sociological terms to a website which is less than ten years old and is the origin of nothing except the notion that it's the origin of anything...to say nothing of a helluva lot of scare quotes.

      Basically this. There are a lot of parts of what Avatar Katar is saying that I don't agree with, but in general s/he's got some pretty good observations on how, for a supposedly Not Fake Sex Therapist, Love Robin is exceedingly good at obfuscating things with remarks that oddly seem more at home in a NARTH pamphlet.

      Again, no. I'm addressing a fallacious understanding and mindset *of the fans*. Even with Bryke telling us they are bisexual—and I reserve the right to my opinion *they* may not have the correct understanding of it—it is still NOT "because they dated Mako"—a statement most often made by viewers—it is at best "despite dating Mako".

      Except that Avatar Katar has since expanded upon what s/he means by saying "they dated Mako," & the fact that they had desire for Mako is pretty central to that point. They were not portrayed as feeling pushed into that relationship & not being comfortable with it. As for the whole "Bryke just doesn't get it," that's an assertion literally based on nothing.

      As for my practice, note that I've stated that I'm often dealing with my patients' friends and family and what they are telling them. I did not discuss what or how I deal with my clients, just what they have to deal with in their lives. And in generalities, since I can't discuss specifics of any one patient.

      This doesn't really change the fact that you are, at best, very bad at listening to what people are actually saying & offering input that both relates to what they said & is clear to the audience. As evidenced by this conversation.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      As for my practice, note that I've stated that I'm often dealing with my patients' friends and family and what they are telling them. I did not discuss what or how I deal with my clients, just what they have to deal with in their lives. And in generalities, since I can't discuss specifics of any one patient.

      This doesn't really change the fact that you are, at best, very bad at listening to what people are actually saying & offering input that both relates to what they said & is clear to the audience. As evidenced by this conversation.

      I'm not your therapist. This is not my office. You, none of you, are my patients.

      I'm not obligated to be a therapist 24 hours a day. Meaning: to swallow down my personal thoughts and feelings in favor of your mental health. I can speak my mind without having to fear you're eggshells I need to tread lightly on.

      This is my time, and I'm trying to get across "my points". Obviously failing to do so, but I can continue to try.

      Apparently, the disconnect here is that while *I'm* trying to discuss an issue which has Real World impact, y'all are electing to remain focused solely on the fictional world. But the fictional can affect many people's outlooks and thoughts. Fans and viewers of shows see something and they think "that's how that is." Often this can be a good thing when it is a positive message.

      And I'm not talking about negative messages being embraced, I'm talking about, in this thread in particular, a gray issue. It is not OVERTLY negative, but can nonetheless hurt Real Life people.

      I spend a fair percentage of time reeducating patients that what they see in movies and television are not always the life lessons they've taken them to be". I spend almost as much time trying to readjust the mindsets of their family and friends if they are concerned enough to sit in on sessions opened to them.

      And frankly, for all that y'all say *I'm* bad at listening, the same could be said of y'all. I'm not hearing many/any of you even considering my point as having potential merit.

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    • I'm not your therapist. This is not my office. You, none of you, are my patients.

      You are not a therapist AT ALL. You do not have an office or patients. And once again, if you don't want me saying so, stop dragging that in as some ludicrous way of trying to give yourself credibility. I have no sacred cows, I will not avoid questioning ANY claim that YOU bring up. I don't care if it makes you pissy. If you don't want people to comment on it, stop throwing it out there.

      Apparently, the disconnect here is that while *I'm* trying to discuss an issue which has Real World impact, y'all are electing to remain focused solely on the fictional world.

      BOTH myself & DZ expressed disagrement with parts of Avatar Katar's argument. It the FIRST PART of the post you presumably read, because you quoted part of it.

      And frankly, for all that y'all say *I'm* bad at listening, the same could be said of y'all. I'm not hearing many/any of you even considering my point as having potential merit.

      I'm a little busy trying to correct all of your strawmanning of me. Quit doing that & maybe I'll have time to pat you on the back for getting something right.

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    • Apparently, the disconnect here is that while *I'm* trying to discuss an issue which has Real World impact, y'all are electing to remain focused solely on the fictional world. But the fictional can affect many people's outlooks and thoughts. Fans and viewers of shows see something and they think "that's how that is." Often this can be a good thing when it is a positive message. And I'm not talking about negative messages being embraced, I'm talking about, in this thread in particular, a gray issue. It is not OVERTLY negative, but can nonetheless hurt Real Life people.


      That was never really any part of your argument until the end and it wasn't even a part of their own arguments. Undoubtedly media has real world impact but what I'm trying to say is it's not always a positive thing. Frankly, now you're attempting to change what you were arguing about because you were trying to say that Korra and Asami were something they weren't by pulling up a bunch of physiology that they never express or felt and over complicating something that was easy to grasp.

      And to just say because I forgot to bring this up, If Korra never had a crush on Mako and then they become big celebrities and the press thinks they look cute and assume they're a couple and their manager forces to keep holding up that appearance because it makes publicity. Then you'd have a point. If Asami's dad thought her and Mako look cute together and make them go out with each other (Which doesn't make sense) then you'd have a point. But that never happens and the opposite is true is that they force themselves on to him because they want him not to appeal to social norms but more or less to solve the inching in their groins.

      I spend a fair percentage of time reeducating patients that what they see in movies and television are not always the life lessons they've taken them to be". I spend almost as much time trying to readjust the mindsets of their family and friends if they are concerned enough to sit in on sessions opened to them.


      Honestly, I find a lot of your practice that you imply you do to be immensely confusing and illogical to the point where people are questioning your supposed role as a therapist you claim you have. And I think a lot of your views are really radical and shocking, like that one time you said child abductions should be shown on children's cartoons to teach them on the real world which was loony.

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    • AvatarKatar wrote: like that one time you said child abductions should be shown on children's cartoons to teach them on the real world which was loony.

      Not certain I said it in that fashion. Might have, I've certainly done my fair share of posting while overly tired or rushed. Link please. I probably said it closer to "children should not be shielded from everything. They should be made aware of the dangers in this world."

      You warn a kid about the dangers inherent in the kitchen and especially about the stove. You want them to understand that it is dangerous, hot, and they could get burned. If you don't, there is increased chance they may pull something burning and scalding down on themselves. Now, you don't do this by taking their hand and putting it in a fire or hot element. But you do show them something like paper catching fire.

      You want to impress upon them the danger, and even about messing with you while you're in there working. Because that increases their safety in the kitchen and while you are working in it.

      In places around the world where predatory animals roam free, children there are taught about the dangers to be found in the bush. But here, where 2-legged predators abound? "Shield the children from it". I say no. make them aware so they can best be alert.

      Look up *Eddie Werner*, NJ.

      Where other parents were not telling their kids about what happened, I told mine. Because I couldn't be with them 24/7, I wanted them to understand that even other kids their own age could do terrible things.

      You're free to disagree with my decision. But all of my children are alive today, so I'm okay with my radical views.

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    • Not certain I said it in that fashion. Might have, I've certainly done my fair share of posting while overly tired or rushed. Link please. I probably said it closer to "children should not be shielded from everything. They should be made aware of the dangers in this world."

      You warn a kid about the dangers inherent in the kitchen and especially about the stove. You want them to understand that it is dangerous, hot, and they could get burned. If you don't, there is increased chance they may pull something burning and scalding down on themselves. Now, you don't do this by taking their hand and putting it in a fire or hot element. But you do show them something like paper catching fire.

      You want to impress upon them the danger, and even about messing with you while you're in there working. Because that increases their safety in the kitchen and while you are working in it.

      In places around the world where predatory animals roam free, children there are taught about the dangers to be found in the bush. But here, where 2-legged predators abound? "Shield the children from it". I say no. make them aware so they can best be alert.

      Look up *Eddie Werner*, NJ.

      Where other parents were not telling their kids about what happened, I told mine. Because I couldn't be with them 24/7, I wanted them to understand that even other kids their own age could do terrible things.

      You're free to disagree with my decision. But all of my children are alive today, so I'm okay with my radical views.


      I can't remember the specific thread, not out of convenience but because it's been over a year and I can't remember shit like that, only details. But you're going off topic over something that's even more stupid and a horrid idea. But to entertain the idea, they're children, let them enjoy their innocence and be a responsible parent and teach your kids this shit if you think it needs to thought instead of saying that child's programming should show children being abducted and murdered. "WATCH ELMO CRY OVER HIS SISTER'S FUNERAL AFTER SHE GOT ABDUCTED BY STRANGERS THIS WEEK ON SESAME STREET!" How nice.

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    • Explaining to children things they shouldn't do because they're dangerous DOES sound like a good idea. I will now formally extend that pat on the back to Love Robin for getting a thing right.

      I will then immediately follow it up by pointing out that she is an inbreeding depression denalist.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Explaining to children things they shouldn't do because they're dangerous DOES sound like a good idea. I will now formally extend that pat on the back to Love Robin for getting a thing right.

      Granted, I don't think it shouldn't be taught but more or less that the parent tell them flat out why something is dangerous than letting a show do it for them. But either way, we're digressing.

      I will then immediately follow it up by pointing out that she is an inbreeding depression denalist.

      I do recall at one point she admitted to having sex with her brother and had his children...

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    • AvatarKatar wrote:

      I will then immediately follow it up by pointing out that she is an inbreeding depression denalist.

      I do recall at one point she admitted to having sex with her brother and had his children...

      One child. However I did not say it was consensual. Because it wasn't, thank you very much.

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    • Oh hey, Wiki's back to not giving me notifications. So that's cool.

      I actually do have that thread saved, so you can see it in context if you so desire. Of course, I was more referring to the denial of the genetic facts.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      AvatarKatar wrote:

      I will then immediately follow it up by pointing out that she is an inbreeding depression denalist.
      I do recall at one point she admitted to having sex with her brother and had his children...
      One child. However I did not say it was consensual. Because it wasn't, thank you very much.

      *Spits out water* What the hell did this conversation turn to???

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    • "DarkNet1 wrote: Love Robin wrote: AvatarKatar wrote:I will then immediately follow it up by pointing out that she is an inbreeding depression denalist.I do recall at one point she admitted to having sex with her brother and had his children...One child. However I did not say it was consensual. Because it wasn't, thank you very much.*Spits out water* What the hell did this conversation turn to???"

      We've become a circus act. Now all we need is for us to mention Hitler. IDK why it did that that but i'm too lazy to turn it into an actual quote

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    • AvatarKatar wrote: We've become a circus act.

      This happened because instead of sticking to the topic, personal attacks crept in.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      AvatarKatar wrote: We've become a circus act.

      This happened because instead of sticking to the topic, personal attacks crept in.

      Well, nobody knew nor have you indicated before that your incestuous child was the result of rape...

      Welcome to the Avatar Wiki, everyone.

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    • AvatarKatar wrote:

      Love Robin wrote:

      AvatarKatar wrote: We've become a circus act.

      This happened because instead of sticking to the topic, personal attacks crept in.

      Well, nobody knew nor have you indicated before that your incestuous child was the result of rape...

      In a comment about how incest has a lot of fear tactic propaganda I compared two of my children, the one by my unrelated ex-husband and one by my brother, and that the one most would think to be autistic is not the one which is. BTW, the one by my Ex was nonconsensual as well, again thank you very much.

      I try to distance any talk about the circumstances of their conceptions separate from thoughts about them to minimize thinking them the cause, allowing hating the kids to creep in, or remembering how close I was to terminating them. Because that is not the sort of thing any child should be burdened with: that they are the product of violence and their mother nearly killed them because of it.

      There are many things I feel should not be shielded from children, for their safety. That sort of knowledge, however, has nothing to do with their safety. I opted, instead, to love them and make them feel loved and wanted. So one thinks she is my current husband's, and we're both willing to allow that.

      I did not, do not, mention everything about my life. That is neither reason nor excuse to take any provided detail and use it as a personal attack. A rather unnecessary and cheap shot.

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    • Love Robin wrote:

      AvatarKatar wrote:


      Love Robin wrote:

      AvatarKatar wrote: We've become a circus act.

      This happened because instead of sticking to the topic, personal attacks crept in.
      Well, nobody knew nor have you indicated before that your incestuous child was the result of rape...
      In a comment about how incest has a lot of fear tactic propaganda I compared two of my children, the one by my unrelated ex-husband and one by my brother, and that the one most would think to be autistic is not the one which is. BTW, the one by my Ex was nonconsensual as well, again thank you very much.

      I try to distance any talk about the circumstances of their conceptions separate from thoughts about them to minimize thinking them the cause, allowing hating the kids to creep in, or remembering how close I was to terminating them. Because that is not the sort of thing any child should be burdened with: that they are the product of violence and their mother nearly killed them because of it.

      There are many things I feel should not be shielded from children, for their safety. That sort of knowledge, however, has nothing to do with their safety. I opted, instead, to love them and make them feel loved and wanted. So one thinks she is my current husband's, and we're both willing to allow that.

      I did not, do not, mention everything about my life. That is neither reason nor excuse to take any provided detail and use it as a personal attack. A rather unnecessary and cheap shot.

      First of all, you said out right that you had an incestuous child and a non-incestuous ones and defended the act of incest and incestuous children who do tend to be overwhelmingly high chance of being genetically defectiveness. If your incestuous child wasn't that then s/he's a rare flower. Granted, I agree that it is a heavy burden for children to have to face such harsh realities at a young age and it's better to treat them like they're loved.

      Secondly, I doubt any of us would attack you if we have known you were raped. (And it wasn't I who brought up the incest depression stuff, just merely recalling that you said you had an incestuous child.) I mean, we're not assholes.

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    • Since the conversation is coming around to me, so I doubt I can keep avoiding the elephant in the room, I'd like to point out that my criticisms of Love Robin are not related to whether or not she has experienced trauma. They include science denialism, appeal to (most likely false) personal authority, almost compulsive straw men, refusal to support arguments by any means other than anecdote coupled with disproportionate insistence of their veracity, & hypocritical tone arguments.

      The one thing I can think of that I would have changed if I'd thought about it more at the time is my statement in that thread that she has "an ulterior motive to defend incest," because I'd actually started to question that shortly after saying it. Though I wasn't thinking of rape at the time, it occurred to me that I had no way of knowing if the story was true, & if it was there could be circumstances I was unaware of (e.g. siblings separated at birth).

      Half for this reason, the other half because I don't feel like tempting a ban over every argument, I chose in this thread to stick specifically to the inbreeding depression denial arguments, rather than the incest statement itself. I will agree that it was "an unnecessary & cheap shot," (never have I denied being spiteful) but it is an example of "radical & extreme views" that make the psychoanalytic claims suspect, so it was not unwarranted.

      That said, I do not take responsibility for somehow forcing this line of conversation. I didn't ask her about her children in that thread, I've always been against her use of arguments from anecdote. Meanwhile, I've all but tried pulling teeth to get, if not a demonstration of accreditation, then at least citations. Which has still never happened. So I don't know why she's so ready to present this information, but it's certainly not because I've pried into it.

      That is the most honest way I can think of addressing everything said since my last post.

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    • Wow, this thread...

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    • For Neo and Robin:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhfR17Yvgcc


      In response with the OP, does the relantionship seem forced? Yes. Why? Most likely because the writers showed little to no indication of the relationship forming throughout season 4, if they did it was fairly small that it can be easily overlooked. For most of the show Asami's and Korra's relationship is more along the lines of friends and "slight" romantic rivals. Why people may take issue with the Korra's ending sexual orientation is probably do to bad/rushed writing on behalf of the creators (like many things in the series). I myself felt the same way at the end, when it came to Korrasami. Eventually, I accepted it do to further *ahem* "research and evaluation" and various fanfics. 

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    • First of all: any "romantic rivalry" between them was over and done with by the midpoint of the series, if not earlier.  Full stop.

      Secondly: yes, they did become close friends first...which is more than can be said for Korra and Mako before they got together.

      Thirdly: for writing that was supposedly "bad" and "rushed," the 'shiptease between them throughout the second half of the series (seriously: it started in Book 3) did a damn good job of reading as a queerbait up until it actually happened...and then, of resonating with queer fans after the fact.  (Meanwhile, people were all too quick to read in Makorra 'shiptease where none actually existed.)

      Fourthly: putting people's "issue" with it down to your opinion of the writing completely ignores the fact that more of the complaints than one might want to believe really do spring out of—to put it diplomatically—active bias.  (I'd wager that even more spring out of—as Konietzko's often-misinterpreted statement had it—expectations of heteronormativity.  The fact that people did read in Makorra 'shiptease—and the fact that even certain queer fans have admitted to having been initially taken aback by Korrasami, but to getting it in hindsight—supports that assessment.)

      Teal-deer: it's your prerogative not to like the pairing.  But the claim that it was "bad writing" couldn't hold water if it bent it, never has, and never will.

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    • 1. Well i never indicated that rivalry extended all the way to the fourth season, nor did i specify a time as to when it happened anyways. I just listed that it happened at one point. 

      2. So, you agree?

      3. I never said there wasn't an indication of the relationship forming, nor did i explicitly say all of those parts where poorly written. What I was trying to say is that the parts that show cased the flowering relationship between Korra and Asami where most likely affected by poor writing due to the show being rushed throughout it production. If the creators would have had more time to properly flesh out and expand the series, then more attention could have went into fleshing out their relationship. 

      4. http://www.w1ghz.org/10g/bias150.gif

      ^ Gaze upon the Active Bias

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    • I shouldn't butt into this but I have a lot of problems with this.

      Deist Zealot wrote:
      First of all: any "romantic rivalry" between them was over and done with by the midpoint of the series, if not earlier.  Full stop.


      Not earlier, one of the main plot points in the 2nd season was Asami and Mako's resumption of their relationship after Korra broke up with him.

      Secondly: yes, they did become close friends first...which is more than can be said for Korra and Mako before they got together.


      Frankly, the idea that Asami and Korra would be friends after Korra successfully took Asami's boyfriend away seems unrealistic at best. Since I'm pretty sure anyone in that situation wouldn't ever want to rekindle that friendship. (Well, they never had an actual friendship Books 1-2, they've always been romantic rivals only Korra was the aggressor and in Book 2, Asami barely even had a role besides from filling up a subplot for Future Industries that didn't really result in anything besides from the introduction of Varrick.)

      Thirdly: for writing that was supposedly "bad" and "rushed," the 'shiptease between them throughout the second half of the series (seriously: it started in Book 3) did a damn good job of reading as a queerbait up until it actually happened...and then, of resonating with queer fans after the fact.  (Meanwhile, people were all too quick to read in Makorra 'shiptease where none actually existed.)


      No, it never showed the romance. It only hinted at it and they let your own brain fill in the blanks in scenes. That's not an excuse (And isn't queer a derogatory word?) Because, say all you want with Makorra. People can say that's a romance that was actually shown and was an actual part of the story besides from "shiptease" Korrasami which seemed more like an after thought to appease the "queer" fans. It never actually existed? Korra seemed to be attracted to him and cared about him enough to unlock her airbending skill when he was in great danger. And I like how when it's Makorra it's bad writing but when it's Korrasami it's not.

      Fourthly: putting people's "issue" with it down to your opinion of the writing completely ignores the fact that more of the complaints than one might want to believe really do spring out of—to put it diplomatically—active bias.  (I'd wager that even more spring out of—as Konietzko's often-misinterpreted statement had it—expectations of heteronormativity.  The fact that people did read in Makorra 'shiptease—and the fact that even certain queer fans have admitted to having been initially taken aback by Korrasami, but to getting it in hindsight—supports that assessment.)


      I don't see where it can be "misinterpreted", he says to watch it without heterolenses, implying you automatically see it in a hetero way which I have a problem with because I just watched it normally and it's still terrible writing. It's not necessarily a slam against heteros, I interpreted more as an excuse for bad writing.

      Teal-deer: it's your prerogative not to like the pairing.  But the claim that it was "bad writing" couldn't hold water if it bent it, never has, and never will.


      Bad writing, is an objective opinion that has a lot of water to stand on, on the basis that it relies a lot on how you interpret the "hints" because when you get down to it, Korra and Asami's relationship teasing happened in the beginning and the end of Book 3 entirely. In between, there's barely any interaction until they get captured by the Earth Kingdom and that didn't have any moments of hinting at a relationship, they instead worked together as a team to get out of their situation and find shelter from the desert. In Book 4, Korra and Asami's relationship, again, is a beginning and end thing only, their relationship teasing occurred closer to the end of the 2nd act of the season. Even then, it's nothing really special. Asami was the only person she wrote back because she feels she'd understand her better? Ok, I can by that since in Asami's very limited personality, she's shown as caring. But then she started yelling at her for visiting and trying to rekindle with her father because that's dangerous? Where did that come from. All we know is that she wrote her back once and now she's over protective? I'm sure Asami can take care of herself. And that's not bad writing? That's amazing, top tier, Shakespearean writing that we just didn't get it and any arguments that it's bad has no water to stand on? Despite the fact the criticism "bad writing" is an objective opinion just like your objective stance that it's "good writing"?

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    • I shouldn't butt into this but I have a lot of problems with this.

      That describes my response to this as well.

      Frankly, the idea that Asami and Korra would be friends after Korra successfully took Asami's boyfriend away seems unrealistic at best. Since I'm pretty sure anyone in that situation wouldn't ever want to rekindle that friendship. (Well, they never had an actual friendship Books 1-2, they've always been romantic rivals only Korra was the aggressor and in Book 2, Asami barely even had a role besides from filling up a subplot for Future Industries that didn't really result in anything besides from the introduction of Varrick.)

      Korra & Asami become friendly with each other starting when Mako & Bolin move into the mansion. They are most certainly friends, Asami participates in the patrolling activities along with Korra's other friends, the 3 of them come to Asami's aid when she's arrested, & after the thing with her dad goes down, she gives Asami a place to stay. I think that outweighs petty "you stole muh boyfriend!" drama.

      Especially since that's not actually how it happened. Korra had stopped pursuing Mako after Spirit of Competition, Asami herself broke up with Mako because he was being Mako, & only AFTER that did he & Korra start dating--because Mako approached Korra.

      Because, say all you want with Makorra.

      I will, because I find it annoying how widespread this argument is, given that it is utterly absurd. Basically, it says to forget about any kind of logical, sensible development, all that matters for "showing a romance" is that you CALL it a romance. If you don't have that, there is literally nothing there, nothing else matters, certainly not the way the characters act onscreen matters. What's this "Show Don't Tell" bullshit, get that out of here!

      Who cares if it makes no sense why Mako suddenly pulls a 180 & is deeply in love with Korra, despite considering her a nuisance a few days prior? The fact that there are no censors dictating that they can't use the "L" word automatically makes it superior.

      It never actually existed? Korra seemed to be attracted to him and cared about him enough to unlock her airbending skill when he was in great danger.

      She is talking about post-Book 2, where some people considered basically any time Korra & Mako were onscreen together to be foreshadowing them getting back together.

      And I like how when it's Makorra it's bad writing but when it's Korrasami it's not.

      Yes. I don't even know what else to say to this. Makorra was badly written, Korrasami was not. That's not a double standard. It doesn't even make sense for you to imply that, considering that by your own admission, they were written very differently.

      I don't see where it can be "misinterpreted", he says to watch it without heterolenses, implying you automatically see it in a hetero way which I have a problem with because I just watched it normally and it's still terrible writing.

      Well, you're more-or-less interpreting it correctly. But that makes me wonder how you don't see how others misinterpret this, since usually when people bring it up it's to complain that "Bryan said I hate gay people!" Which is not what he said.

      That said, you kind of shit the bed with the 2nd part when you assume there is an "unbiased" way to view the show. There isn't. More than that, if you want to tell me that you're somehow immune to cultural expectations of heterosexuality, that's quite the claim, I'm gonna need more than your word on that.

      Bad writing, is an objective opinion that has a lot of water to stand on, on the basis that it relies a lot on how you interpret the "hints" because when you get down to it, Korra and Asami's relationship teasing happened in the beginning and the end of Book 3 entirely.

      I'm assuming you meant "subjective," & that's exactly the problem. "Bad writing," at least how most people use it, isn't even a real thing. It's just something people say when they want to make "I don't like it!" sound more authoritative. The implication is that, because they didn't like something, there must be a flaw in the writing & certainly never, ever with their views.

      Then they bizarrely seem to get mad when you criticize their opinion, ignoring the fact that it wouldn't be possible to criticize them if they just owned that their opinion was based on arbitrary feelings. By saying your opinion naturally follows from the writing, you have rested it on a foundation that can be tested.

      But to make something perfectly clear, your assertion that there isn't a correct interpretation is false. There WERE hints at a building relationship, as confirmed by the creators. Trying to frame that as if it's a "debate" is disingenuous revisionism. What is also disingenuous is self-proclaimed unbiased observers repeatedly asking for justifications of the writing, but then refusing to accept the mere fact that the development EXISTS so the conversation can NEVER move to the step of actually analyzing it.

      Because that's really what the argument is, it's not about whether or not the development is "bad," whatever that means, it's just 1 side constantly justifying their belief that there was no development. It's a belief that was proven false. Move on from it already.

      But then she started yelling at her for visiting and trying to rekindle with her father because that's dangerous? Where did that come from. All we know is that she wrote her back once and now she's over protective? I'm sure Asami can take care of herself. And that's not bad writing?

      No. Korra had a legitimate point. And you're saying it's "bad writing" because Asami can "take care of herself"? I don't even know how to respond to this argument, it literally doesn't make sense.

      That's amazing, top tier, Shakespearean writing that we just didn't get it and any arguments that it's bad has no water to stand on?

      Okay, I realize it might offend people to be told that their arguments don't hold water, but the point of logic isn't to make people feel better. If you make an argument that doesn't make sense, refuses to acknowledge reality, relies on fallacious logic, has no factual basis, or otherwise doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I am going to say that it doesn't hold water.

      Making a hyperbolic caricature of the views of the person saying that to mock doesn't really bolster your argument at all.

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    • Korra & Asami become friendly with each other starting when Mako & Bolin move into the mansion. They are most certainly friends, Asami participates in the patrolling activities along with Korra's other friends, the 3 of them come to Asami's aid when she's arrested, & after the thing with her dad goes down, she gives Asami a place to stay. I think that outweighs petty "you stole muh boyfriend!" drama.

      They were never real good friends in Book One, they were more or less acquaintances, to the point of betraying your own father for people you just met type of friendship. I find it hard to believe considering the fact Asami did have a strong connection with Mako, and felt hurt and even kind of devastated and sadden when she found out Korra kissed Mako. And that move into the mansion if I recall occurred before all this shit went down. From the love triangle to the Equalist reveal with her father. And Asami's confrontation and anger towards Mako (Which I don't understand why he's getting the shit for it since Korra was the aggressor in that) was also at this same time frame of post-Father betrayal Asami iirc.

      Especially since that's not actually how it happened. Korra had stopped pursuing Mako after Spirit of Competition, Asami herself broke up with Mako because he was being Mako, & only AFTER that did he & Korra start dating--because Mako approached Korra.</iv>

      It's true Asami broke up with Mako at that time, but that never stopped the romantic triangle to resume in Book Two, when Asami came back to him. Granted, it wasn't as much a competition as it was a misunderstand and Mako seeing the opportunity to get his old girlfriend back.


      I will, because I find it annoying how widespread this argument is, given that it is utterly absurd. Basically, it says to forget about any kind of logical, sensible development, all that matters for "showing a romance" is that you CALL it a romance. If you don't have that, there is literally nothing there, nothing else matters, certainly not the way the characters act onscreen matters. What's this "Show Don't Tell" bullshit, get that out of here!

      But they do show Makorra. They developed as part of Book One's story. That's how you do a romance. You don't hint at one, you develop it in the grand scheme of things so it can have a result. I don't particularly care for Makorra, but it was better to see the romance, which is ironically what you're trying to say otherwise with Korrasami. We've never seen the romance with them, we just got hints and were told that this is the case. And were only confirmed afterwards.


      Who cares if it makes no sense why Mako suddenly pulls a 180 & is deeply in love with Korra, despite considering her a nuisance a few days prior? The fact that there are no censors dictating that they can't use the "L" word automatically makes it superior.

      Granted, I never said it was good romance. I just said it was an actual romance that was properly developed and shown in its entirety. (Frankly, my problem with Korra in of herself when it comes to romance is she never respects anyone, not Mako or even her mentors and father. But I find it odd she'd respect Asami since she was petty and jealous towards her when they first meet.)


      She is talking about post-Book 2, where some people considered basically any time Korra & Mako were onscreen together to be foreshadowing them getting back together.

      Really, if Bryke didn't confirm that Korrasami was real, so would the hints they laid for them.


      Yes. I don't even know what else to say to this. Makorra was badly written, Korrasami was not. That's not a double standard. It doesn't even make sense for you to imply that, considering that by your own admission, they were written very differently.

      They were written to be romances for the main protagonist. And explain to me why Korrasami is an example of a good romance then?


      Well, you're more-or-less interpreting it correctly. But that makes me wonder how you don't see how others misinterpret this, since usually when people bring it up it's to complain that "Bryan said I hate gay people!" Which is not what he said.

      That said, you kind of shit the bed with the 2nd part when you assume there is an "unbiased" way to view the show. There isn't. More than that, if you want to tell me that you're somehow immune to cultural expectations of heterosexuality, that's quite the claim, I'm gonna need more than your word on that.

      Well, I saw it as a show and I watched it without viewing it any differently than I'd view the original show. I have to say that I didn't mind Korrasami at first because I haven't of thought of the show and the characters, as a whole yet and when I started revising through it started to realize why so many people felt disappointed with Korrasami.

      And I never said I was? That I merely watched it normally since heterosexuality goes into the differentiation of what you commonly see in the world. I don't think "hetero lens" works because to me and my views on love being universal, that there is no difference between how a straight or bi couple would love their significant others, so when I do judge Korrasami, I see it the same way I see Romeo and Juliet or Han Solo and Leia. And it doesn't hold up.

      And I like how you would imply I have a bias because rom what I've been told, you're the one who used to write threads and blogs dissecting and analyzing Korrasami and claiming it's been there since Book 1.

      I'm assuming you meant "subjective," & that's exactly the problem. "Bad writing," at least how most people use it, isn't even a real thing. It's just something people say when they want to make "I don't like it!" sound more authoritative. The implication is that, because they didn't like something, there must be a flaw in the writing & certainly never, ever with their views.

      Well isn't good writing the same? "I like it!" I mean, bad writing does exist, look at the entirety of say, Ed Wood's films or Uwe Boll's films or Michael Bay's films. And you even said Makorra was a bad romance, well, in order for it to be bad it has to be poorly written.


      But to make something perfectly clear, your assertion that there isn't a correct interpretation is false. There WERE hints at a building relationship, as confirmed by the creators. Trying to frame that as if it's a "debate" is disingenuous revisionism. What is also disingenuous is self-proclaimed unbiased observers repeatedly asking for justifications of the writing, but then refusing to accept the mere fact that the development EXISTS so the conversation can NEVER move to the step of actually analyzing it.

      Development existence doesn't equal good writing. I know Korrasami was hinted, I'm not necessarily saying it's not. But what I mean is with the excuse of "Well, we left hints all over the place!" Means literally any interaction between Korra and Asami could potentially be romantic in nature up to your interruption. I mean, let me just say here. If Asami and Korra had more scenes where they're hanging out and having joyous fun in the same vein as Borra was in Book One, I'd believe it. I could believe they're in love. But they had been four in total times where they were alone (that built on their characters not that escape scene in 3), the first one was the driving scene where they get antiquated, the second when they decide to start a new beginning in their friendship after joking that it was silly to chase after Mako, the third was in the clip show episode which I honestly never even saw it any more than an excuse to show more clips to pad out the episode and the fourth time was when they decided to go to the spirit world and became a couple.

      2 out of 4 of those scenes were for them to get acquainted even though the latter of the two is the beginning of the romance but it's so platonic that it's just silly to think, 2 of them were purposely romantic in nature but one was to give an excuse to show flashbacks and the other was the confirmation scene where Korra comforts Asami on her dad's death and then take a vacation into the spirit world. And while I take it as good friendship and assurance, it never felt like an actual, loving romance. I'm not bought that they're in love. I'm convinced they're friends now but not lovers.

      Because their romantic relationship never felt genuine. It's confirmed that they're lovers though, after the fact. But if it wasn't, all anyone would do today is keep speculating. When I do judge romance, I'd go back to the best romances I can think of, Romeo and Juliet, Han and Leia, Rick and Ilsa, Harry and Sally, Thelma and Louise, or hell, even Aang and Katara, I believe that they're in love, because it's written so good and acted in such a believable way, that it's no doubt these characters were in love. I never got that with Korrasami. Korrasami never had that. So, subjectively  to me, it is bad writing. Not because it fails to meet my criteria, because it's badly written. Korra and Asami don't work as a couple, Asami's a smart, calm collective girl that stops and thinks about the situation, Korra's reactionary, fighting machine that doesn't think. We never see the actual romance, just hints, and only in the exact middle of the series and even then, in Book 3 the plot moved so fast with an emphasis on both introducing new characters and progressing the Red Lotus plot that it doesn't give time to develop Korrasami, hell, I can believe Kainora is a more believable romance because we see how it's developed and I can buy it, even though it never really lead anywhere. In Book 4, everything was so unorganized and all over the place I'm surprised it even formed a coherent story. Though franky, I don't see the real purpose in arguing with you, you will always see it as one of the best romances ever made, I will always see it as one of the worst. No one is going to gain anything for this, besides more sides on an argument done to death. I only replied in the first place because I felt insulted by DZ's comment.

      So I'm just going to leave you with this saying only spoken by the druids of old:

      God, I hate typing in the middle of the night. My head is literally spinning, I should see a doctor.
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    • AvatarKatar wrote:


      Korra & Asami become friendly with each other starting when Mako & Bolin move into the mansion. They are most certainly friends, Asami participates in the patrolling activities along with Korra's other friends, the 3 of them come to Asami's aid when she's arrested, & after the thing with her dad goes down, she gives Asami a place to stay. I think that outweighs petty "you stole muh boyfriend!" drama.
      They were never real good friends in Book One, they were more or less acquaintances, to the point of betraying your own father for people you just met type of friendship. I find it hard to believe considering the fact Asami did have a strong connection with Mako, and felt hurt and even kind of devastated and sadden when she found out Korra kissed Mako. And that move into the mansion if I recall occurred before all this shit went down. From the love triangle to the Equalist reveal with her father. And Asami's confrontation and anger towards Mako (Which I don't understand why he's getting the shit for it since Korra was the aggressor in that) was also at this same time frame of post-Father betrayal Asami iirc.


      Especially since that's not actually how it happened. Korra had stopped pursuing Mako after Spirit of Competition, Asami herself broke up with Mako because he was being Mako, & only AFTER that did he & Korra start dating--because Mako approached Korra.</iv>

      It's true Asami broke up with Mako at that time, but that never stopped the romantic triangle to resume in Book Two, when Asami came back to him. Granted, it wasn't as much a competition as it was a misunderstand and Mako seeing the opportunity to get his old girlfriend back.



      I will, because I find it annoying how widespread this argument is, given that it is utterly absurd. Basically, it says to forget about any kind of logical, sensible development, all that matters for "showing a romance" is that you CALL it a romance. If you don't have that, there is literally nothing there, nothing else matters, certainly not the way the characters act onscreen matters. What's this "Show Don't Tell" bullshit, get that out of here!
      But they do show Makorra. They developed as part of Book One's story. That's how you do a romance. You don't hint at one, you develop it in the grand scheme of things so it can have a result. I don't particularly care for Makorra, but it was better to see the romance, which is ironically what you're trying to say otherwise with Korrasami. We've never seen the romance with them, we just got hints and were told that this is the case. And were only confirmed afterwards.


      Who cares if it makes no sense why Mako suddenly pulls a 180 & is deeply in love with Korra, despite considering her a nuisance a few days prior? The fact that there are no censors dictating that they can't use the "L" word automatically makes it superior.
      Granted, I never said it was good romance. I just said it was an actual romance that was properly developed and shown in its entirety. (Frankly, my problem with Korra in of herself when it comes to romance is she never respects anyone, not Mako or even her mentors and father. But I find it odd she'd respect Asami since she was petty and jealous towards her when they first meet.)



      She is talking about post-Book 2, where some people considered basically any time Korra & Mako were onscreen together to be foreshadowing them getting back together.
      Really, if Bryke didn't confirm that Korrasami was real, so would the hints they laid for them.


      Yes. I don't even know what else to say to this. Makorra was badly written, Korrasami was not. That's not a double standard. It doesn't even make sense for you to imply that, considering that by your own admission, they were written very differently.
      They were written to be romances for the main protagonist. And explain to me why Korrasami is an example of a good romance then?


      Well, you're more-or-less interpreting it correctly. But that makes me wonder how you don't see how others misinterpret this, since usually when people bring it up it's to complain that "Bryan said I hate gay people!" Which is not what he said.

      That said, you kind of shit the bed with the 2nd part when you assume there is an "unbiased" way to view the show. There isn't. More than that, if you want to tell me that you're somehow immune to cultural expectations of heterosexuality, that's quite the claim, I'm gonna need more than your word on that.

      Well, I saw it as a show and I watched it without viewing it any differently than I'd view the original show. I have to say that I didn't mind Korrasami at first because I haven't of thought of the show and the characters, as a whole yet and when I started revising through it started to realize why so many people felt disappointed with Korrasami.

      And I never said I was? That I merely watched it normally since heterosexuality goes into the differentiation of what you commonly see in the world. I don't think "hetero lens" works because to me and my views on love being universal, that there is no difference between how a straight or bi couple would love their significant others, so when I do judge Korrasami, I see it the same way I see Romeo and Juliet or Han Solo and Leia. And it doesn't hold up.

      And I like how you would imply I have a bias because rom what I've been told, you're the one who used to write threads and blogs dissecting and analyzing Korrasami and claiming it's been there since Book 1.


      I'm assuming you meant "subjective," & that's exactly the problem. "Bad writing," at least how most people use it, isn't even a real thing. It's just something people say when they want to make "I don't like it!" sound more authoritative. The implication is that, because they didn't like something, there must be a flaw in the writing & certainly never, ever with their views.
      Well isn't good writing the same? "I like it!" I mean, bad writing does exist, look at the entirety of say, Ed Wood's films or Uwe Boll's films or Michael Bay's films.

      And you even said Makorra was a bad romance, well, in order for it to be bad it has to be poorly written.



      But to make something perfectly clear, your assertion that there isn't a correct interpretation is false. There WERE hints at a building relationship, as confirmed by the creators. Trying to frame that as if it's a "debate" is disingenuous revisionism. What is also disingenuous is self-proclaimed unbiased observers repeatedly asking for justifications of the writing, but then refusing to accept the mere fact that the development EXISTS so the conversation can NEVER move to the step of actually analyzing it.
      Development existence doesn't equal good writing. I know Korrasami was hinted, I'm not necessarily saying it's not. But what I mean is with the excuse of "Well, we left hints all over the place!" Means literally any interaction between Korra and Asami could potentially be romantic in nature up to your interruption. I mean, let me just say here. If Asami and Korra had more scenes where they're hanging out and having joyous fun in the same vein as Borra was in Book One, I'd believe it. I could believe they're in love. But they had been four in total times where they were alone (that built on their characters not that escape scene in 3), the first one was the driving scene where they get antiquated, the second when they decide to start a new beginning in their friendship after joking that it was silly to chase after Mako, the third was in the clip show episode which I honestly never even saw it any more than an excuse to show more clips to pad out the episode and the fourth time was when they decided to go to the spirit world and became a couple.

      2 out of 4 of those scenes were for them to get acquainted even though the latter of the two is the beginning of the romance but it's so platonic that it's just silly to think, 2 of them were purposely romantic in nature but one was to give an excuse to show flashbacks and the other was the confirmation scene where Korra comforts Asami on her dad's death and then take a vacation into the spirit world. And while I take it as good friendship and assurance, it never felt like an actual, loving romance. I'm not bought that they're in love. I'm convinced they're friends now but not lovers.

      Because their romantic relationship never felt genuine. It's confirmed that they're lovers though, after the fact. But if it wasn't, all anyone would do today is keep speculating. When I do judge romance, I'd go back to the best romances I can think of, Romeo and Juliet, Han and Leia, Rick and Ilsa, Harry and Sally, Thelma and Louise, or hell, even Aang and Katara, I believe that they're in love, because it's written so good and acted in such a believable way, that it's no doubt these characters were in love. I never got that with Korrasami. Korrasami never had that. So, subjectively  to me, it is bad writing. Not because it fails to meet my criteria, because it's badly written. Korra and Asami don't work as a couple, Asami's a smart, calm collective girl that stops and thinks about the situation, Korra's reactionary, fighting machine that doesn't think. We never see the actual romance, just hints, and only in the exact middle of the series and even then, in Book 3 the plot moved so fast with an emphasis on both introducing new characters and progressing the Red Lotus plot that it doesn't give time to develop Korrasami, hell, I can believe Kainora is a more believable romance because we see how it's developed and I can buy it, even though it never really lead anywhere. In Book 4, everything was so unorganized and all over the place I'm surprised it even formed a coherent story. Though franky, I don't see the real purpose in arguing with you, you will always see it as one of the best romances ever made, I will always see it as one of the worst. No one is going to gain anything for this, besides more sides on an argument done to death. I only replied in the first place because I felt insulted by DZ's comment.

      So I'm just going to leave you with this saying only spoken by the druids of old:

      God, I hate typing in the middle of the night. My head is literally spinning, I should see a doctor.

      Oops daddy did it again.

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    • Count Kibbles N Bits wrote:
      1. Well i never indicated that rivalry extended all the way to the fourth season, nor did i specify a time as to when it happened anyways. I just listed that it happened at one point. 

      Except what you said was that this was the case "for most of the show."

      2. So, you agree?

      Sure, if you want to interpret "Korra had more of a foundation for a romantic relationship with Asami than she did with Mako, but the same people ripping on Korrasami will give Makorra a free pass" as "agreement" with your claims that Korrasami was somehow "rushed" or "badly written." (In other words: no, I most certainly do not.)

      3. I never said there wasn't an indication of the relationship forming, nor did i explicitly say all of those parts where poorly written. What I was trying to say is that the parts that show cased the flowering relationship between Korra and Asami where most likely affected by poor writing due to the show being rushed throughout it production. If the creators would have had more time to properly flesh out and expand the series, then more attention could have went into fleshing out their relationship. 

      Classic backpedal.  In your previous post, you were clearly insinuating that it was specifically Korrasami that was "bad writing."

      While I won't deny that pretty much every pairing got shortchanged by the short-arc format, that's just as true of, say, Bopal (which didn't have the further restriction of being censored) as it is of Korrasami.  (And the less said about Zhurrick, the better.)  But yet, it's always Korrasami that gets singled out.

      4. http://www.w1ghz.org/10g/bias150.gif ^ Gaze upon the Active Bias

      Cute derail, but words can mean more than one thing.

      It still remains that anti-Korrasami sentiment—like it or not—is a hell of a lot less likely to be rooted in being some sort of arbiter of what constitutes good or bad writing (case in point: the various "it's bad because I didn't get it" arguments that will not stop cropping up like noxious toadstools after a heavy rain) than it is in just getting offended over two women dating.  (Or, more innocuously, offended over Korra not ending up with Mako.) 

      Mind you: I will allow that it hypothetically could be possible to formulate an entirely legitimate criticism of Korrasami that neither disingenuously ignores censorship nor damns every other pairing on the show.  It remains that everyone who's attempted to do so has fallen into one or both of those pitfalls.  (And I won't even go into all of the "handmaiden and feudal lord" bullshit and half-assed attempts to spin Asami as an emotional abuser that people try to fob off as such.)

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    • They were never real good friends in Book One, they were more or less acquaintances, to the point of betraying your own father for people you just met type of friendship.

      Asami didn't "betray" her father "for" them, she stood up to him because what he was doing was wrong. There wasn't a contest on that. Maybe if he'd indoctrinated her into the Equalists things would be different, but he clearly didn't. And when friendships progress through difficult situations like that, it makes them stronger.

      And that move into the mansion if I recall occurred before all this shit went down.

      Which is exactly why it is pertinent, you act like they had nothing but casual encounters under their belt, but that isn't true. So I'm at a loss to explain why you think the petty boyfriend drama is grounds to immediately terminate their friendship, unless you think that's somehow more important than Korra being there for Asami in her time of need.

      And Asami's confrontation and anger towards Mako (Which I don't understand why he's getting the shit for it since Korra was the aggressor in that) was also at this same time frame of post-Father betrayal Asami iirc.

      Because Mako is moving away from Asami emotionally, towards Korra.

      Granted, it wasn't as much a competition as it was a misunderstand and Mako seeing the opportunity to get his old girlfriend back.

      Then why did you bring it up as an example of them being in competition?

      But they do show Makorra. They developed as part of Book One's story. That's how you do a romance. You don't hint at one, you develop it in the grand scheme of things so it can have a result. I don't particularly care for Makorra, but it was better to see the romance, which is ironically what you're trying to say otherwise with Korrasami. We've never seen the romance with them, we just got hints and were told that this is the case. And were only confirmed afterwards.

      Okay, later on in this post, you blatantly contradict this by saying that you don't deny that Korrasami was developed. So I'm counting that as you conceding this point.

      Granted, I never said it was good romance. I just said it was an actual romance that was properly developed and shown in its entirety.

      If it wasn't a good romance, then it wasn't properly developed. You are using the word "development" wrong. Merely having them do things & say they're in love is not the same as "properly developing the romance." Of course, I don't know why I kept this part in, because I already know that you're going to contradict this too.

      Really, if Bryke didn't confirm that Korrasami was real, so would the hints they laid for them.

      I don't even know what this says.

      They were written to be romances for the main protagonist. And explain to me why Korrasami is an example of a good romance then?

      No. I will not do that. Because you don't care about the answer, you're already making excuses to blow off their interactions before I've even said anything.

      I don't think "hetero lens" works because to me and my views on love being universal, that there is no difference between how a straight or bi couple would love their significant others, so when I do judge Korrasami, I see it the same way I see Romeo and Juliet or Han Solo and Leia. And it doesn't hold up.

      Disregard that Han Solo & Leia weren't even originally intended to be a couple, George Lucas did that after deciding that Luke & Leia were siblings.

      Also, these romances are terrible. Kataang is passable at best. The other examples I don't recognize.

      And I like how you would imply I have a bias because rom what I've been told, you're the one who used to write threads and blogs dissecting and analyzing Korrasami and claiming it's been there since Book 1.

      That's completely false. I don't even have a blog, unless you count the one here, & if you look at it you'll see that I think I did 1 Korrasami post, which did not say that.

      I mean, bad writing does exist, look at the entirety of say, Ed Wood's films or Uwe Boll's films or Michael Bay's films. And you even said Makorra was a bad romance, well, in order for it to be bad it has to be poorly written.

      Yes, this is why I threw in the part about "at least the way most people use it." The way most people use the term "bad writing" doesn't actually have anything to do with accepted rules for writing, in fact if you show them that what they're complaining about is actually a widely used literary device, they'll completely disregard it. Because it's not really about the writing, it's about trying to make their opinion have more weight than it actually does.

      So to answer your question, "good writing" could be used this way, but it seldom is. Usually, when people talk about "good writing" (well first of all, they usually say "well written"), they actually DO cite a basis for it. This is because people have a negativity bias. The average person simply doesn't care about defending what they like as much as tearing apart what they don't.

      Development existence doesn't equal good writing.

      This completely contradicts the entire argument you have made for Makorra, so bravo.

      I mean, let me just say here. If Asami and Korra had more scenes where they're hanging out and having joyous fun in the same vein as Borra was in Book One, I'd believe it. I could believe they're in love. But they had been four in total times where they were alone

      That was ONE scene. How the fuck does that beat 2 or 4 or whatever arbitrary number you came up with for Korrasami scenes? What numerology are you practicing here?

      So, subjectively to me, it is bad writing. Not because it fails to meet my criteria, because it's badly written.

      Holy shit, can you keep ANYTHING you say straight? You said that bad writing" is subjective SO many times, Hell you did it right here, & then you contradicted yourself right away by saying you're not judging from any personal criteria. Well then it's not subjective & your whole "I'm not wrong, it's up to interpretation!" spiel makes no fucking SENSE!

      Y'know what, I usually don't do this, but I'm stopping here. I don't see why I should have to answer any of your arguments when you clearly don't even know what they ARE.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      They were never real good friends in Book One, they were more or less acquaintances, to the point of betraying your own father for people you just met type of friendship.

      Asami didn't "betray" her father "for" them, she stood up to him because what he was doing was wrong. There wasn't a contest on that. Maybe if he'd indoctrinated her into the Equalists things would be different, but he clearly didn't. And when friendships progress through difficult situations like that, it makes them stronger.


      And that move into the mansion if I recall occurred before all this shit went down.

      Which is exactly why it is pertinent, you act like they had nothing but casual encounters under their belt, but that isn't true. So I'm at a loss to explain why you think the petty boyfriend drama is grounds to immediately terminate their friendship, unless you think that's somehow more important than Korra being there for Asami in her time of need.


      And Asami's confrontation and anger towards Mako (Which I don't understand why he's getting the shit for it since Korra was the aggressor in that) was also at this same time frame of post-Father betrayal Asami iirc.

      Because Mako is moving away from Asami emotionally, towards Korra.


      Granted, it wasn't as much a competition as it was a misunderstand and Mako seeing the opportunity to get his old girlfriend back.

      Then why did you bring it up as an example of them being in competition?


      But they do show Makorra. They developed as part of Book One's story. That's how you do a romance. You don't hint at one, you develop it in the grand scheme of things so it can have a result. I don't particularly care for Makorra, but it was better to see the romance, which is ironically what you're trying to say otherwise with Korrasami. We've never seen the romance with them, we just got hints and were told that this is the case. And were only confirmed afterwards.

      Okay, later on in this post, you blatantly contradict this by saying that you don't deny that Korrasami was developed. So I'm counting that as you conceding this point.


      Granted, I never said it was good romance. I just said it was an actual romance that was properly developed and shown in its entirety.

      If it wasn't a good romance, then it wasn't properly developed. You are using the word "development" wrong. Merely having them do things & say they're in love is not the same as "properly developing the romance." Of course, I don't know why I kept this part in, because I already know that you're going to contradict this too.


      Really, if Bryke didn't confirm that Korrasami was real, so would the hints they laid for them.

      I don't even know what this says.


      They were written to be romances for the main protagonist. And explain to me why Korrasami is an example of a good romance then?

      No. I will not do that. Because you don't care about the answer, you're already making excuses to blow off their interactions before I've even said anything.


      I don't think "hetero lens" works because to me and my views on love being universal, that there is no difference between how a straight or bi couple would love their significant others, so when I do judge Korrasami, I see it the same way I see Romeo and Juliet or Han Solo and Leia. And it doesn't hold up.

      Disregard that Han Solo & Leia weren't even originally intended to be a couple, George Lucas did that after deciding that Luke & Leia were siblings.

      Also, these romances are terrible. Kataang is passable at best. The other examples I don't recognize.


      And I like how you would imply I have a bias because rom what I've been told, you're the one who used to write threads and blogs dissecting and analyzing Korrasami and claiming it's been there since Book 1.

      That's completely false. I don't even have a blog, unless you count the one here, & if you look at it you'll see that I think I did 1 Korrasami post, which did not say that.


      I mean, bad writing does exist, look at the entirety of say, Ed Wood's films or Uwe Boll's films or Michael Bay's films. And you even said Makorra was a bad romance, well, in order for it to be bad it has to be poorly written.

      Yes, this is why I threw in the part about "at least the way most people use it." The way most people use the term "bad writing" doesn't actually have anything to do with accepted rules for writing, in fact if you show them that what they're complaining about is actually a widely used literary device, they'll completely disregard it. Because it's not really about the writing, it's about trying to make their opinion have more weight than it actually does.

      So to answer your question, "good writing" could be used this way, but it seldom is. Usually, when people talk about "good writing" (well first of all, they usually say "well written"), they actually DO cite a basis for it. This is because people have a negativity bias. The average person simply doesn't care about defending what they like as much as tearing apart what they don't.


      Development existence doesn't equal good writing.

      This completely contradicts the entire argument you have made for Makorra, so bravo.


      I mean, let me just say here. If Asami and Korra had more scenes where they're hanging out and having joyous fun in the same vein as Borra was in Book One, I'd believe it. I could believe they're in love. But they had been four in total times where they were alone

      That was ONE scene. How the fuck does that beat 2 or 4 or whatever arbitrary number you came up with for Korrasami scenes? What numerology are you practicing here?


      So, subjectively to me, it is bad writing. Not because it fails to meet my criteria, because it's badly written.

      Holy shit, can you keep ANYTHING you say straight? You said that bad writing" is subjective SO many times, Hell you did it right here, & then you contradicted yourself right away by saying you're not judging from any personal criteria. Well then it's not subjective & your whole "I'm not wrong, it's up to interpretation!" spiel makes no fucking SENSE!

      Y'know what, I usually don't do this, but I'm stopping here. I don't see why I should have to answer any of your arguments when you clearly don't even know what they ARE.

      >no sense of humor

      >immense triggering

      smh tbh fam

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    • Now you are just posting spam & I think you should stop.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Now you are just posting spam & I think you should stop.

      Is that a threat? I'm taking that as threat. Honestly, I had it right when I said objective opinion, which means, according to google "not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice." Which was what I was making, you said subjective and I was like "Oh is that what it's called?"

      But hey if you don't wanna talk anymore, go ahead then. I just want you to be happy now and wake up tomorrow with a smile on your face and optimism in your eyes so have a good night, fam.

      Oh and I skip words in a sentence sometimes when I'm tired:

      "Really, if Bryke didn't confirm that Korrasami was real, so would the hints they laid for them."

      What I meant to say was if they didn't confirm it was, then the hints dropped would have been on the same level as Makorra coming back together. And I never said Makorra was a good romance, more like it's an actual romance.

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    • Except you're still not right, because you clearly said it was "up to interpretation," multiple times, so you're still contradicting yourself up & down.

      Also, forget whether or not you are internally consistent for a second, just saying your opinion is factual (which is what objective means, since apparently you actually don't know this) a bunch of times--which is all that you really did--does not make it so.

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    • I never said Korrasami was up to interpretation as in the stuff confirmed by Bryke to be canon, like the car scene or the scenes later at the air temple and by the portal. I do mean is, the stuff in between like Korra and Asami in the blimp or Asami taking Korra to safety, which I often time see those as examples of Asami's love for Korra.

      "just saying your opinion is factual" lol since when are opinions factual?

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    • I changed my mind, go back to the spam, it's less irritating than trying to explain to you the definitions of the words.

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    • You know, you could just ignore that and go on to another thread than to have replied prompting me to reply back, especially since you're supposedly at a boiling point where you rage'd quit the argument. I mean, Christ, you don't know when to stop arguing and just take the high route and let it be. I'm only replying because it's just humorous now. If you want it to stop? Like, really stop? Than just ignore me and go do something else with your time like I don't know, knitting or learning karate or something.

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    • First, I didn't "rage quit the argument" because I'm "at a boiling point" I stopped because you're doing a fine job arguing with yourself. Seriously, which of your arguments should I respond to? The one where you say that "bad writing" is just an opinion & you don't deny that the romance develops? Or the exact opposite one, where you say that "bad writing" is "objective," not influenced by your personal views, & no romantic development was shown? It's impossible to get anywhere when someone is giving you the runaround, saying mutually exclusive things & refusing to use words properly.

      Secondly, I'm not taking your bullshit about how I need to stop pointing out how you're wrong or you won't stop shitposting. If you think not arguing is "the high road," then go ahead & do it. You're not even on-topic, so you're the one who shouldn't be here. You want to basically admit to trolling, say you're only posting because you think it's "funny"? You want to go out of your way to piss me off? You want to try to hold the thread hostage with threats that you won't stop shitposting if I don't shut up? Go ahead & do these things. You won't bully me into giving you what you want, & I won't feel bad if it gets ugly, since you're giving me absolutely no reason to feel sympathy for you.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      First, I didn't "rage quit the argument" because I'm "at a boiling point" I stopped because you're doing a fine job arguing with yourself. Seriously, which of your arguments should I respond to? The one where you say that "bad writing" is just an opinion & you don't deny that the romance develops? Or the exact opposite one, where you say that "bad writing" is "objective," not influenced by your personal views, & no romantic development was shown? It's impossible to get anywhere when someone is giving you the runaround, saying mutually exclusive things & refusing to use words properly.

      Secondly, I'm not taking your bullshit about how I need to stop pointing out how you're wrong or you won't stop shitposting. If you think not arguing is "the high road," then go ahead & do it. You're not even on-topic, so you're the one who shouldn't be here. You want to basically admit to trolling, say you're only posting because you think it's "funny"? You want to go out of your way to piss me off? You want to try to hold the thread hostage with threats that you won't stop shitposting if I don't shut up? Go ahead & do these things. You won't bully me into giving you what you want, & I won't feel bad if it gets ugly, since you're giving me absolutely no reason to feel sympathy for you.

      Yeah but you have to ask yourself "what do I have to gain from this?" It's not like I'm going to listen to you, not now. You know I'm shitposting yet you're still trying to bring logic into these arguments instead of just dropping it. Geez, you act just like Andrew Dobson. And it's hilarious to actually see you break down like this, almost as if your impression of an intellectual has finally been broken. You're really no different from me at this point.

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    • .-.

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    • SifuCheetah wrote:
      .-.

      I know what you mean

      Buuuut to bring the thread back on topic because we haven't on topic for a while:

      Korra is a bisexual woman, that's her sexuality.

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    • Doesn't really matter if you don't listen to me, you're admitting to shitposting/trolling & that you have no intention of stopping. At this point, I have everything to gain & nothing to lose.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Doesn't really matter if you don't listen to me, you're admitting to shitposting/trolling & that you have no intention of stopping. At this point, I have everything to gain & nothing to lose.

      Lol, it's not that I have "no intention of stopping", it's more of an reactionary thing towards you not on purposely "trolling" the thread. If someone, even if you, bring back the thread on topic and has an argument I'm not going to be like "gr8 b8 m8 10/10 made me reply fam".

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    • To put it simply, I think Korra is bisexual. She has dated guys and possibly girls (upcoming LoK comics), so that is what I take it to be. Unfortunately, knowing how these things go, I will probably end up caught in this derailing thread.

      I did not read the majority of this thread, nor do I have any intention to. I just thought I'd insert my opinion and see what the results are, so forgive me if anything I said has been said before.

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    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      To put it simply, I think Korra is bisexual. She has dated guys and possibly girls (upcoming LoK comics), so that is what I take it to be. Unfortunately, knowing how these things go, I will probably end up caught in this derailing thread.

      I did not read the majority of this thread, nor do I have any intention to. I just thought I'd insert my opinion and see what the results are, so forgive me if anything I said has been said before.

      Nah I agree with you full heartedly on it.

      And it's all fine, man. It's still something to add to the table, it doesn't matter if it's been said or not, just to add your thoughts on the matter is what counts :P

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    • The same thing goes for Asami. Bisexual, has dated guys and possibly girls. I doubt she and Korra would suddenly turn lesbian for each other and completely abandon their straightality (don't argue, definitely a word).

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    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      The same thing goes for Asami. Bisexual, has dated guys and possibly girls. I doubt she and Korra would suddenly turn lesbian for each other and completely abandon their straightality (don't argue, definitely a word).

      I agree on that, and lol I just wanted to say that sounds like a Mortal Kombat fatality :P

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    • AvatarKatar wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Doesn't really matter if you don't listen to me, you're admitting to shitposting/trolling & that you have no intention of stopping. At this point, I have everything to gain & nothing to lose.

      Lol, it's not that I have "no intention of stopping", it's more of an reactionary thing towards you not on purposely "trolling" the thread. If someone, even if you, bring back the thread on topic and has an argument I'm not going to be like "gr8 b8 m8 10/10 made me reply fam".

      Pointing out fallacies in your argument was perfectly on-topic, a thing to which you responded with "durr just stop arguing." Also, it's weird that you'd try to pass the buck for "baiting" onto me since that's what you basically admitted to yourself, but I guess that's just keeping in with the general "what the fuck are you talking about, do you even know?" theme.

      I did not read the majority of this thread, nor do I have any intention to. I just thought I'd insert my opinion and see what the results are, so forgive me if anything I said has been said before.

      Stop doing the smart thing & join this War of Egos. But seriously, it's tough to be sure, but I believe that's the general consensus. As a lot of people have pointed out, including myself, Bryan basically said they are bisexual. Love Robin might give you some crap about how dating guys doesn't automatically make someone bisexual, but I don't think that's what you meant, so. I guess the question could be asked where, specifically, they fall on the Kinsey Scale. But it'd be rather hard to answer, since they both dated like 2 people.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      AvatarKatar wrote:


      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Doesn't really matter if you don't listen to me, you're admitting to shitposting/trolling & that you have no intention of stopping. At this point, I have everything to gain & nothing to lose.
      Lol, it's not that I have "no intention of stopping", it's more of an reactionary thing towards you not on purposely "trolling" the thread. If someone, even if you, bring back the thread on topic and has an argument I'm not going to be like "gr8 b8 m8 10/10 made me reply fam".
      Pointing out fallacies in your argument was perfectly on-topic, a thing to which you responded with "durr just stop arguing." Also, it's weird that you'd try to pass the buck for "baiting" onto me since that's what you basically admitted to yourself, but I guess that's just keeping in with the general "what the fuck are you talking about, do you even know?" theme.

      You mean the fallacies of Korrasami even though the thread's about their sexuality? And lol, "durr" is exactly how'd people would reply to your attempts to white knight it. Or really "HUUURRRR KORRASAMI IS GREAT WRITING", "KORRASAMI IS THE BEST SHIPPING EVER", "HURR SHUT UP MY SIGNATURE SPICE IS AMAZING".

      I mean, what do you got to lose but time of your life arguing with that one guy who you think is an asshole? What do you have to gain since you've said you have everything to gain? "Haha! I won another internet argument!" "Haha! I showed that asshole that he's an asshole!" It has no rhyme or reason. You want this to stop but have no problem playing along with it because you got "everything to gain, nothing to lose."

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    • I mean, what do you got to lose but time of your life arguing with that one guy who you think is an asshole? What do you have to gain since you've said you have everything to gain? "Haha! I won another internet argument!" "Haha! I showed that asshole that he's an asshole!" It has no rhyme or reason. You want this to stop but have no problem playing along with it because you got everything to gain, nothing to lose.

      You know, you could be the one who stops first, right? You can easily just not comment anymore... Unless you actually want this to keep going....? 

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    • SifuCheetah wrote:

      I mean, what do you got to lose but time of your life arguing with that one guy who you think is an asshole? What do you have to gain since you've said you have everything to gain? "Haha! I won another internet argument!" "Haha! I showed that asshole that he's an asshole!" It has no rhyme or reason. You want this to stop but have no problem playing along with it because you got everything to gain, nothing to lose.

      You know, you could be the one who stops first, right? You can easily just not comment anymore... Unless you actually want this to keep going....? 

      Inevitably I might as well do that, but that'll just make his ego swell even more so. He'll probably even hang it up on his wall of fame, lol.

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    • AvatarKatar wrote:
      SifuCheetah wrote:

      I mean, what do you got to lose but time of your life arguing with that one guy who you think is an asshole? What do you have to gain since you've said you have everything to gain? "Haha! I won another internet argument!" "Haha! I showed that asshole that he's an asshole!" It has no rhyme or reason. You want this to stop but have no problem playing along with it because you got everything to gain, nothing to lose.

      You know, you could be the one who stops first, right? You can easily just not comment anymore... Unless you actually want this to keep going....? 
      Inevitably I might as well do that, but that'll just make his ego swell even more so. He'll probably even hang it up on his wall of fame, lol.

      I understand that, but does it really matter? It's just a trivial Internet argument that neither of you will probably remember 2 years from now. 

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    • SifuCheetah wrote:
      AvatarKatar wrote:
      SifuCheetah wrote:

      I mean, what do you got to lose but time of your life arguing with that one guy who you think is an asshole? What do you have to gain since you've said you have everything to gain? "Haha! I won another internet argument!" "Haha! I showed that asshole that he's an asshole!" It has no rhyme or reason. You want this to stop but have no problem playing along with it because you got everything to gain, nothing to lose.

      You know, you could be the one who stops first, right? You can easily just not comment anymore... Unless you actually want this to keep going....? 
      Inevitably I might as well do that, but that'll just make his ego swell even more so. He'll probably even hang it up on his wall of fame, lol.
      I understand that, but does it really matter? It's just a trivial Internet argument that neither of you will probably remember 2 years from now. 

      Fair enough, I'll take your advise then. There's no real reason here, nothing's being proven and there's no where this is going and I have better things to do so thanks for that, at least my ego can be deflated.

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    • ...if your argument depends, in any way, on making played-out social media jokes about trauma survivors, strawmanning disagreement as "hurr durr," and so on?  You should probably step back from the computer and reconsider whether or not you're actually even arguing, as opposed to just bickering.

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    • Fair enough, I'll take your advise then. There's no real reason here, nothing's being proven and there's no where this is going and I have better things to do so thanks for that, at least my ego can be deflated.

      We'll see.

      You mean the fallacies of Korrasami even though the thread's about their sexuality? And lol, "durr" is exactly how'd people would reply to your attempts to white knight it. Or really "HUUURRRR KORRASAMI IS GREAT WRITING", "KORRASAMI IS THE BEST SHIPPING EVER", "HURR SHUT UP MY SIGNATURE SPICE IS AMAZING".

      Fallacies like ad hominems that rely on things I never said, yes, thank you for demonstrating that point.

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    • Simmer down folks. Everyone take a breather and let's try to keep a more civil and less hostile atmosphere. Otherwise, no point keeping the thread open if it will just continue devolving.

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    • She's Bisexuall.

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    • Word of Bryke confirms both are bisexual.

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    • She's Bisexual, and Mako now has the reputation of turning women to the other team

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    • DrachenRitter42 wrote: Word of Bryke confirms both are bisexual.

      Source? Because that one blog did confirm them entering a romantic relationship with one another, but that and the fact that they had a relationship with Mako before doesn't necessarily have to mean that they're bi. They're a lot of other "options" (for lack of a better word). But if you would have a source linking back to Bryke saying that they're "bi", that'd be great to put this discussion to bed once and for all :-)

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