Pretty much everyone who has been following the Korrasami thing will have had their eyes blown when they saw the very ending. Now I do pretty much want to believe that the developers intentionally did this as a response to fans, but what is actually the truth?
Shortly before the moment that they stepped into the spirit world in what seems to be the most romantic setting and look EVER, Mako does say he will always stay on Korra's side in battle no matter how crazy things end up. My only concern here is that she also looks as if she receives some feelings back for him. Of course, what I mentioned earlier came after this dialogue so the matter of the truth is that it's very open ended.
Hell we aren't even given anything from Bolin or Opel. But yea, that aside, is this a suggestion, just because Nickelodeon does not allow this kind of couple? Like some sort of pun on the Korrasami and the fact that it couldn't confirmly happen because of Nick's rules? Or is this just to give anyone their own tale of the story?
It is possible that Korra is bi, though I'm not sure about Asami. Korra's heart clearly skipped a beat when Mako said he would always go to battle with her. But in the end, it is with Asami that Korra feels comfortable enough to open up to.
Also, based on the way the two stood at the foot of the spirit portal, it felt as though I was watching a couple being wed at the atlar.
KorraFanatic wrote:
It is possible that Korra is bi, though I'm not sure about Asami. Korra's heart clearly skipped a beat when Mako said he would always go to battle with her. But in the end, it is with Asami that Korra feels comfortable enough to open up to.
Also, based on the way the two stood at the foot of the spirit portal, it felt as though I was watching a couple being wed at th atlar.
Hmmm that sounds like a fantastic approach to this ending. Thanks for the answer!
Two girls who'd previously shown interest in a boy were 'shipteased, then ended with them as a strongly implied couple (read: as obvious as Nick could probably get away with). Sexuality and romantic orientation aren't necessarily all that cut-and-dried, but I'd tentatively call them bi.
I agree they are in their teenage years. We are probably seeing their first relationships with the opposite sex and so they are most likely going to be experimental. Think when you got through that much together its impossible not to feel something, even for the same sex.
There have been clue hinting to this before to be honest:
1) Korra only wrote to asami, she clearly held strong feelings for her and not Mako or anyone else.
2) When Korra broke up with Mako she didn't seem that heartbroken. They hardly shared that strong a connection that they could break off so easily.
3) Korra is quite masculine in her demeanor (very brutish, short hair) and she enjoys the company of men (Bolin, Mako, Tenzin). Obviously this is just a stereotype and not everyone like this is gay but it at least hints at it.
Id say they were both confused about their sexuality but know they have feelings for each other so are both gay at the end of the day.
Well, I'd be inclined to now agree with the Korrasamians, but as Dragonboy6491 said on my discussion page, Mike and Bryan left it to our interpretations: Mako's promise to Korra: Point 1 to the Makorrans. Asami and Korra holding hands, shiptease: A point (or two? I dunno, your pick so long as you don't butcher me) to us Korrasamians...? They did have a point where it is implied, but not confirmed. Is she just a close friend to Mako and Asami? Or is it more with one of them? I guess more importantly: Will we ever know?
An artists interpretation doesn't have to be everyone's interpretation, so you think you, we think we, I suppose :/ Sorry to say everyone, Korrasamians included.
I'm not sure why everyone assume that. I've never been part of the Korra fandom so I don't know how shippers look at it but all I could see were two girlfriends having a moment. I mean, can't two women hold hands together without people thinking they're homosexual?
I loved the ending but for a different reason. It wasn't the classic OTP confirmed ending. Instead of confirming a ship, it ended with the best friends forever ending. After all those love quarrels, it was good to see the two girls just taking a break from it.
hmmm... this is what i theoretically think: because nick's executives diminished the budget of korra, the creators of Korra were a bit pissed. so they ended the series with something that a typical nick cartoon wouldn't allow: a hint of bisexuality/homosexuality--you know, as a way of Korra's creators to kinda show the executives of nick a middle finger for almost shutting down their amazing cartoon show.
i don't mind the ending of Book IV: Balance. if there's a new book, it would be Book V: Harmony (of two chicks). thank you Mako, for making these gals love each other now.
why Harmorny you ask? Because CHANGE has to happen first. Things will have to adjust to find BALANCE that the change has caused. When balance is achieved, the next thing will be HARMONY when everything is resolved and fixed.
It doesn´t matter if they are bi o les, if they are involve or like each other more than friends they are just two awesome characters/people that found each other and can be together because is not wrong... I put the "If" but for me look pretty obvious what the creators did, they implied because the society is not prepare to complety accept something like that, but, as many other teaching that they had left us, we are all people, with our difference we can be together in this world
If the ending was intended to be romantic, and the creators actually did want them to be a couple, then I'd say bi curious. Because like somebody said before, the way Korra looks at Mako shows she has feelings for him. But we don't even know what the ending means yes.
A post by MDM on his personal tumblr page of a letter from a mom who is ecstatic that her son finally has a gay animated character/pair he can identify with. Don't take my word for it...read it for yourself.
See the link below for a very good stage placement and character priority, gumby style, break-down. Really clarifies the scene in terms of character importance to the story not just gender.
Regardless of their sexuality, I'm convinced Korra and Asami genuinely love each other. The non-verbal communication says it all. It isn't just the joining of hands, but the smile, their facing one another, and each gazing deeply into the other's eyes with a look of longing on their faces that sells it.
That's not to say that things can't change down the road because they can. But for now Korra and Asami hold their relationship in highest regard, above and beyond their relationships with anyone else.
A post by MDM on his personal tumblr page of a letter from a mom who is ecstatic that her son finally has a gay animated character/pair he can identify with. Don't take my word for it...read it for yourself.
See the link below for a very good stage placement and character priority, gumby style, break-down. Really clarifies the scene in terms of character importance to the story not just gender.
Mike reposting a specific Tumblr entry is not confirming it as canon or even agreeing with it or endorsing it. I'm quoting you (essentially the same exact thing), that does not mean I'm confirming what you say or agreeing with your post.
In that reblogging Mike did not say one single thing about the canonity of Korrasami or whether the woman who wrote the letter was right in assuming that it was a fact, all he said was thanking the woman for writing her response and for her support/appreciation of the show. There is no official confirmation of any kind that Korra and Asami are a couple now or even that either of them are gay/bi. Nor is there any conclusive evidence of any kind, this whole scene is about as open-ended as it gets and the assumptions about it (either the "just friends" or "they're lesbo lovers now") will never be canon until either or both Bryan and Mike come right out and say "yeah, this interpretation here is the way it is and the way we intended things to be".
The last scene of the last episode of the finale for each prior series has been the Avatar and their romantic interest. They wrote those scenes. The finale scene of LOK was staged, blocked out and animated with the same character positions for the same moment at the end of the series.
Michael Dante Martino and Bryan Konietzko wrote it that way. Nickelodeon paid them, and all VAs and staff, to produce that product. It wasn't an accident or "Saturday at the Improv".
Its not my opinion that determined what they created and aired on a national network. It came from them. The fact that they animated a female Avatar and a female Romantic Interest in those positions instead of a male-female is their doing.
What you take away from the shows they created is obviously up to you.
You might enjoy checking out https://twitter.com/jeremyzuckerman. He's the composer for the LOK. He wrote the music to go with those scenes so he's involved on a significant production level.
Mako's promise to Korra: Point 1 to the Makorrans. Asami and Korra holding hands, shiptease: A point (or two? I dunno, your pick so long as you don't butcher me) to us Korrasamians...? They did have a point where it is implied, but not confirmed. Is she just a close friend to Mako and Asami? Or is it more with one of them? I guess more importantly: Will we ever know?
Yeah, it's a lot more than that. We now have Mike reposting an article specifically about how they made Korra & Asami gay, an animator who says that the way they handled the scene was "as much of a confirmation of Korrasami" as when they did Jet's death, & I cannot confirm this, but I've heard that the song that played at the ending was "The Avatar's Love," AKA "the Kataang Theme." And that's leaving out contextual clues like the mirroring of the original series's ending & Varrick's & Zhu Li's wedding poses.
An artists interpretation doesn't have to be everyone's interpretation, so you think you, we think we, I suppose :/ Sorry to say everyone, Korrasamians included.
I think Korra isn't the Avatar. There's 0 evidence behind my belief & it's contradicted numerous times, but "the artists[sic] interpretation doesn't have to be everyone's interpretation."
Nope. We're not talking about an abstract painting, or Skrillex's sculpture that's totally a banana. As was said to me numerous times, "These characters don't have any traits other than what the authors give them."
Also, have this conversation:
And the thing is, sweet as it was, the "clearly platonic" part of the finale was Korra and Mako's last conversation.
[1:50:13 AM] Astarte C: They're BFFs.
[1:50:32 AM] Advent Snail: That is an excellent point that I never considered bringing up.
[1:50:47 AM] Advent Snail: That was taken as shipteasing, but it's the most [...]ing war buddy conversation ever.
A post by MDM on his personal tumblr page of a letter from a mom who is ecstatic that her son finally has a gay animated character/pair he can identify with. Don't take my word for it...read it for yourself.
See the link below for a very good stage placement and character priority, gumby style, break-down. Really clarifies the scene in terms of character importance to the story not just gender.
What does this prove? Just because they wrote it and "planned" for it doesn't mean it was the original intention. Several interviews explain from Bryke themselves that "[Mako and Korra] were meant to be together." They just changed their mind halfway through because the ratings were going down after everything Mako did. And even doing so, they executed it horribly. It was so vague. After Book 2, with all the Mako hatred, they changed their original plan. They listened to the fandom because if they didn't then their ratings would have plummeted and they wouldn't have been able to deliver. They had to do something to bring back the popularity. So what did they do? They did something progressive and tried to make Korrasami cannon when it didn't work effectively because it was never planned for. It was fan service, I'm sorry. Season 1 was all there ever was supposed to be. And Makorra was cannon in it. So anything else is just.. basically off the seat of their pants. Korrasami is only a reality (if it can even be argued to be cannon) because of the korrasami shippers. The Legend of Korra lost a lot of viewers after Season 2 and now it's in the news, all over the internet, probably the biggest shipping war of all time, it was the number one thing trending on Facebook and Tumblr for like 2 days now. Kind of a coincidence don't you think? Korra went from barely holding on to "OMG THIS SHOW IS SO PROGRESSIVE IT"S THE BEST EVER." Yeah.. these "fans" only came out of hiding because their ship became a reality when it made no sense. A majority of the fandom is confused because.. well we should be. It makes no sense because it was never planned for. So it feels thrown in, rushed, inconsistent, confusing, etc. All symptoms of LoK trying to keep their head above water. And I think Bryke left the ending ambiguous and is only reposting/retweeting (whatever) articles like the one about the mom with the gay son because he probably appreciates anyone's interpretation of the ending. I'm sure Bryke is happy that the LGTBQ community can see themselves in Korra and Asami. But it doesn't mean it's cannon. The part with Korra and Mako solidified the fact that the ending is meant to be ambiguous.
2. No, it probably wasn't their intention, but they've said before that they don't plan everything out in advance because you can't do that in television.
3. Similarly, "it's fanservice, so it's bad" is a poor argument because the show exists primarily for entertainment. You think this is the first time there was "fanservice"? Hahano.
4. The notion that "the majority of fans didn't like it" is a stretch to say the least. You're just creatively interpreting the...I'd say, "Numbers," but you don't have any, you're just sort of arbitrarily dismissing Tumblr & downplaying how many people here disagree with you.
5. If they appreciate ANYONE'S interpretation, why aren't we seeing yours? Are you saying it would be too hard for them to find a good Makorra article to post?
6. Nope, if you can deny all of the Korrasami hints as wishful thinking, I'm not accepting that conversation with Mako as a shipping reference.
Edit: You know, I'm not sure if I'm being too aggressive here, but like I said on MSN, it irritates me a bit that I was jerked around so much about how there was "no evidence" & I was just "using shipping goggles" because "it will never, ever happen" when I suggested the REMOTE POSSIBILITY that this might happen, & now that we're here, people are using every trick in the book to downplay it.
Its good to be able to discuss without argueing. Thank you.
I'll go with what the idea that what they created, wrote, re-wrote, edited, re-edited, animated and spent years of time, energy and heart producing was what they wanted the audience to see.
2. No, it probably wasn't their intention, but they've said before that they don't plan everything out in advance because you can't do that in television.
3. Similarly, "it's fanservice, so it's bad" is a poor argument because the show exists primarily for entertainment. You think this is the first time there was "fanservice"? Hahano.
4. The notion that "the majority of fans didn't like it" is a stretch to say the least. You're just creatively interpreting the...I'd say, "Numbers," but you don't have any, you're just sort of arbitrarily dismissing Tumblr & downplaying how many people here disagree with you.
5. If they appreciate ANYONE'S interpretation, why aren't we seeing yours? Are you saying it would be too hard for them to find a good Makorra article to post?
6. Nope, if you can deny all of the Korrasami hints as wishful thinking, I'm not accepting that conversation with Mako as a shipping reference.
Edit: You know, I'm not sure if I'm being too aggressive here, but like I said on MSN, it irritates me a bit that I was jerked around so much about how there was "no evidence" & I was just "using shipping goggles" because "it will never, ever happen" when I suggested the REMOTE POSSIBILITY that this might happen, & now that we're here, people are using every trick in the book to downplay it.
Have you ever played The Last of Us? The two female best friends liked each other. That made sense. But Korra and Asami honestly don't make sense to me. There were so many romantic implications between Mako and Korra and I honestly don't feel convinced that Korra and Asami had anything more than platonic going on. SO many fans feel the exact same way I do. So, it had to have been bad storytelling on their part. Or thrown in at the last minutes (aka influenced by Korrasami shippers). Or left ambiguous enough that both shipping fandoms were satisfied. If they ever make comics though, what are they going to do? Blow off anything that happened in the finale or actually go through with Makorra or Korrasami? Can you imagine what kind of war that'd cause? It's just utterly ironic that with everyone HATING Mako, and the viewers and ratings going down, that they did something drastic in an attempt to bring up the popularity of their show by solidifying a romance between Korra and Asami with hand holding as the VERY last scene. Everything was even keel until the last minute. And then they threw in the last minute. It's the VERY last minute that everyone is going crazy about. Nothing else. Why wasn't Team Avatar focused on? Why couldn't they all go on a vacation together? Korra only seemed to care about Asami in the end (even reapologizing to Asami when Bolin and Mako deserved an apology the most). So it just.. totally doesn't even make sense. It just totally seemed like "you want Korrasami? Fine! Here it is and shut up." Why did Korra need to end up with anyone? It's obvious that the ending was a big "screw you" to Mako. And it was obvious that if the love triangle ruined a lot of things in Season 2 and Korra gained a friend in Asami and Mako in Season 3 then why did they go back to shipping either of them in Season 4? Didn't they learn their lesson from Season 2? Korra's journey was supposed to represent her being compassionate toward her enemies and fixing poor ties with people. She went from being boy-crazy to gaining two friends. The SERIES should have ended with them all as friends heading off to explore the Spirit World. But you know what? The Korrasami shippers would have told Bryke that they didn't have the "balls" to do it. And yeah, catering to fanservice IS bad because it's OBVIOUSLY out of place and inconsistent with all the Makorra teaser moments. If they wanted Korra and Asami to be official by the end they could have and should have left out alllllll Makorra interactions. But no, they kept doing it. And it left us all very confused. Korra's journey is the complete opposite of Aang's. So having the series end with Team Avatar instead of a parallel with Katara and Aang it would have made perfect sense. And that's what they should have done. Or they should have made Korra single. I also like that Korrasami shippers were beginning to support Korra and Kuvira when Korra held her "romantically" in the finale. Korrasami shippers are so desperate they were grasping at any straw they could find. I have no problem with same-character couples (The Last of Us is my favorite video game and it ended this way) but not when it doesn't make sense within the story and/or is too vague to confuse it as friendship. Take all of Korra and Asami's interactions in Book 3 and replace her with Bolin or Opal or anyone but Mako. We all would have assumed Korra and that other person were FRIENDS. And nothing more. and yeah people can say "well that's how it starts! as just friends!" but there was no other body language or touching or being in the same frame moments to back it up. It was super platonic feeling the entire way through for me and a ton of other fans. I'm not the only one feelings confused.
Okay, you clearly blew off everything I said, especially the part about paragraphs. Also, you're not even trying to make sense. I just did a Ctrl+F search, you are literally the only person in this topic talking about Korra & Kuvira being romantic.
I've heard other people mentioning Korra and Kuvira on avatarspirit.net and in other forums and chatrooms and on Tumblr. It seems like people are shipping Korra with any one and everyone, lol.. There's even Kopal shippers.
Am I violating a rule somewhere that says I need to write in paragraphs?
Also, can anyone confirm this statement apparently said by Bryke? I can't find an official source, anywhere: "We are officially announcing here that Korra and Asami are romantically involved, [and] also Korra comics are in the works! Thanks, we couldn't ask for better fans!"
Neo Bahamut wrote: Okay, you clearly blew off everything I said, especially the part about paragraphs. Also, you're not even trying to make sense. I just did a Ctrl+F search, you are literally the only person in this topic talking about Korra & Kuvira being romantic.
How am I not trying to make sense? I wrote many valid points. The bottom line though? The series should not have ended in a shipping war. It's all everyone is talking about. And I think they did it on purpose. Not to mention there are more loose ends by the series finale than there were for ATLA.
Winterlotus90 wrote: I've heard other people mentioning Korra and Kuvira on avatarspirit.net and in other forums and chatrooms and on Tumblr. It seems like people are shipping Korra with any one and everyone, lol.. There's even Kopal shippers.
Am I violating a rule somewhere that says I need to write in paragraphs?
Also, can anyone confirm this statement apparently said by Bryke? I can't find an official source, anywhere: "We are officially announcing here that Korra and Asami are romantically involved, [and] also Korra comics are in the works! Thanks, we couldn't ask for better fans!"
When someone has already steeled their mind to the only posible answer that they want to hear...you're wasting words.
If I may offer a thought: Some folks will argue about whether or not the sun will rise. Engaging them only feeds whatever fire is eating away at them.. They will argue just to argue.
After the Creators publicly stated, in an interview, that Mako and Korra's romance was ended, in addition to showing them breaking up on the show, they were never even a consideration.
Korra's friendship with Asami was shown being strengthened and developed over the course of B3 and B4 and seeing them together followed the character arcs.
They did an excellent job of having the characters last scenes follow along with how important they were in the story line. The more important characters always get the later scenes. The primary character or characters always get the closer. Really good example of stage formatting and character "bows"
The link below gives an excellent stage placement in relation to character priority break-down.
Winterlotus90 wrote: I've heard other people mentioning Korra and Kuvira on avatarspirit.net and in other forums and chatrooms and on Tumblr. It seems like people are shipping Korra with any one and everyone, lol.. There's even Kopal shippers.
Am I violating a rule somewhere that says I need to write in paragraphs?
Also, can anyone confirm this statement apparently said by Bryke? I can't find an official source, anywhere: "We are officially announcing here that Korra and Asami are romantically involved, [and] also Korra comics are in the works! Thanks, we couldn't ask for better fans!"
I've seen the tweet from "Bryke" to RCD (Republic City Dispatch) and the biggest problem with it is they misspelled Asami as "Assami" in the original.
They created and wrote and animated and grew that character over Years and they can't get her name right in a message they know will go out to millions?
Not buying it. I'll call it BS. A really bad prank. Ignore it.
Here's a few links to what Michael D.M "likes". I'd start there.
Here's a link to the twitter page for the LOK Composer/Score writer/music boss, Jeremy Zuckerman. He's probably fairly involved with what the show is about.
2. No, it probably wasn't their intention, but they've said before that they don't plan everything out in advance because you can't do that in television.
3. Similarly, "it's fanservice, so it's bad" is a poor argument because the show exists primarily for entertainment. You think this is the first time there was "fanservice"? Hahano.
4. The notion that "the majority of fans didn't like it" is a stretch to say the least. You're just creatively interpreting the...I'd say, "Numbers," but you don't have any, you're just sort of arbitrarily dismissing Tumblr & downplaying how many people here disagree with you.
5. If they appreciate ANYONE'S interpretation, why aren't we seeing yours? Are you saying it would be too hard for them to find a good Makorra article to post?
6. Nope, if you can deny all of the Korrasami hints as wishful thinking, I'm not accepting that conversation with Mako as a shipping reference.
Edit: You know, I'm not sure if I'm being too aggressive here, but like I said on MSN, it irritates me a bit that I was jerked around so much about how there was "no evidence" & I was just "using shipping goggles" because "it will never, ever happen" when I suggested the REMOTE POSSIBILITY that this might happen, & now that we're here, people are using every trick in the book to downplay it.
Have you ever played The Last of Us? The two female best friends liked each other. That made sense. But Korra and Asami honestly don't make sense to me. There were so many romantic implications between Mako and Korra and I honestly don't feel convinced that Korra and Asami had anything more than platonic going on. SO many fans feel the exact same way I do. So, it had to have been bad storytelling on their part. Or thrown in at the last minutes (aka influenced by Korrasami shippers). Or left ambiguous enough that both shipping fandoms were satisfied. If they ever make comics though, what are they going to do? Blow off anything that happened in the finale or actually go through with Makorra or Korrasami? Can you imagine what kind of war that'd cause? It's just utterly ironic that with everyone HATING Mako, and the viewers and ratings going down, that they did something drastic in an attempt to bring up the popularity of their show by solidifying a romance between Korra and Asami with hand holding as the VERY last scene. Everything was even keel until the last minute. And then they threw in the last minute. It's the VERY last minute that everyone is going crazy about. Nothing else. Why wasn't Team Avatar focused on? Why couldn't they all go on a vacation together? Korra only seemed to care about Asami in the end (even reapologizing to Asami when Bolin and Mako deserved an apology the most). So it just.. totally doesn't even make sense. It just totally seemed like "you want Korrasami? Fine! Here it is and shut up." Why did Korra need to end up with anyone? It's obvious that the ending was a big "screw you" to Mako. And it was obvious that if the love triangle ruined a lot of things in Season 2 and Korra gained a friend in Asami and Mako in Season 3 then why did they go back to shipping either of them in Season 4? Didn't they learn their lesson from Season 2? Korra's journey was supposed to represent her being compassionate toward her enemies and fixing poor ties with people. She went from being boy-crazy to gaining two friends. The SERIES should have ended with them all as friends heading off to explore the Spirit World. But you know what? The Korrasami shippers would have told Bryke that they didn't have the "balls" to do it. And yeah, catering to fanservice IS bad because it's OBVIOUSLY out of place and inconsistent with all the Makorra teaser moments. If they wanted Korra and Asami to be official by the end they could have and should have left out alllllll Makorra interactions. But no, they kept doing it. And it left us all very confused. Korra's journey is the complete opposite of Aang's. So having the series end with Team Avatar instead of a parallel with Katara and Aang it would have made perfect sense. And that's what they should have done. Or they should have made Korra single. I also like that Korrasami shippers were beginning to support Korra and Kuvira when Korra held her "romantically" in the finale. Korrasami shippers are so desperate they were grasping at any straw they could find. I have no problem with same-character couples (The Last of Us is my favorite video game and it ended this way) but not when it doesn't make sense within the story and/or is too vague to confuse it as friendship. Take all of Korra and Asami's interactions in Book 3 and replace her with Bolin or Opal or anyone but Mako. We all would have assumed Korra and that other person were FRIENDS. And nothing more. and yeah people can say "well that's how it starts! as just friends!" but there was no other body language or touching or being in the same frame moments to back it up. It was super platonic feeling the entire way through for me and a ton of other fans. I'm not the only one feelings confused.
The Mako and Korra love story wasn't very interesting or compelling. In fact it seemed like they got bored with Mako completely, he became a minor character in the final season.
The whole KorrAsami thing is a poorly executed distraction in my opinion. But it's the creators story, they can obviously do what they want with it. I just didn't find it very interesting or believable.
Probably would have preferred if they hadn't felt the need to end it with a coupling period. Ending it with Aangs son Tenzin having a final moment with Aangs successor and his protoge would have been my preferred final scene.
Regardless the whole final season had bigger problems than just the KorrAsami thing. Toph was two dimensional with none of the vuleranability that made her so likeable in TLA. Mako was ignored, Kai was ignored, Jinora wasn't developed as well as she should have been.
I don't mean to be so negative, because there were times I really liked LOK. Season 1 progressed well and was very interesting by the end. Book 2 had some nuggets even if it drifted at times. Book 3 was the best, and in my opinion well done from start to finish.
Book 4 felt like they were going through the motions, got bored with some of the characters, and it just never meshed very well. Really disappointed with the way the series ended.
I've heard other people mentioning Korra and Kuvira on avatarspirit.net and in other forums and chatrooms and on Tumblr. It seems like people are shipping Korra with any one and everyone, lol.. There's even Kopal shippers.
Yeah, they're not all the same people.
Am I violating a rule somewhere that says I need to write in paragraphs?
It's sort of a rule of life. People generally won't bother reading huge, disorganized walls of text.
How am I not trying to make sense? I wrote many valid points.
Actually, I'm not even sure what your point IS. Not only did you not respond to the 5 points I clearly stated, but at first you claimed that the ending was supposed to be "ambiguous," then halfway down you said "it's a huge 'screw you' to Mako."
I've heard other people mentioning Korra and Kuvira on avatarspirit.net and in other forums and chatrooms and on Tumblr. It seems like people are shipping Korra with any one and everyone, lol.. There's even Kopal shippers.
Yeah, they're not all the same people.
Am I violating a rule somewhere that says I need to write in paragraphs?
It's sort of a rule of life. People generally won't bother reading huge, disorganized walls of text.
How am I not trying to make sense? I wrote many valid points.
Actually, I'm not even sure what your point IS. Not only did you not respond to the 5 points I clearly stated, but at first you claimed that the ending was supposed to be "ambiguous," then halfway down you said "it's a huge 'screw you' to Mako."
To be quite honest, I think Korra had more chemistry with Opal than with Mako. Bear in mind that Korra's interaction with Opal—for all that they certainly seemed to become fast friends—was frustratingly limited.
And yeah; the "fanservice" dismissal is flimsy and dubious. (Seriously, I'd like to see a valid argument as to how getting either girl back with Mako would not be equally if not more "fanservice.")
Korra has more chemistry with a baked potato than Mako.
"Kopal" never crossed my mind until it was mentioned here. I don't really have any opinion on it. I know it's hard to tell from all of the Korrasami talk, but I'm not really that into shipping.
Surprisingly enough, neither am I. It's more like certain dynamics will come along and ruin me for other 'ships, or come along and genuinely repulse me.
Makorra—well, romantic!Makorra; they work as friends, and his offer to follow her into battle was kind of sweet—was in that second category. I'm glad that its primary purpose for existing, ultimately, seemed to be the destruction of the Avatar soulmate fanon. Because that needed to die.
Neo Bahamut wrote: Yeah. Do I want to know what the "Avatar soulmate fanon" is?
There was a commonly-held belief among the fanbase that Avatars only fall in love once. I don't know where it came from—unless someone interpreted "when love is real, it finds a way" as such, although that's quite a stretch—but people were convinced that it was canon (and, therefore, that Makorra was definitely series endgame because Korra would be inherently incapable of moving on—compatibility be damned).
Some batshippers even went so far as to say that 'shipping Korra with anyone except Mako was, therefore, disrespectful to her character agency. I wish I could make crap like this up.
Lebians. But I *can* accept "Bi" although I disagree with that.
There are far too many moments between Korra & Asami which have buuilt over the seasons. The painting of the mountains in the backdrop with the colors of the bisexual flag. The underpinnings of the music. The repetitive stance used by lovers in the show, on just 5 minutes prior.
No mistakes. No accidents. No coincidences. All those elements together say it was intentional for them to be in a romantic relationship. At least starting one
Neo Bahamut wrote: Yeah. Do I want to know what the "Avatar soulmate fanon" is?
There was a commonly-held belief among the fanbase that Avatars only fall in love once. I don't know where it came from—unless someone interpreted "when love is real, it finds a way" as such, although that's quite a stretch—but people were convinced that it was canon (and, therefore, that Makorra was definitely series endgame because Korra would be inherently incapable of moving on—compatibility be damned).
Some batshippers even went so far as to say that 'shipping Korra with anyone except Mako was, therefore, disrespectful to her character agency. I wish I could make crap like this up.
That's bizarre.
Lebians. But I *can* accept "Bi" although I disagree with that.
I'd prefer bisexual. A lot of media seems to have this "either/or" mentality that never really sat right with me.
Lebians. But I *can* accept "Bi" although I disagree with that.
I'd prefer bisexual. A lot of media seems to have this "either/or" mentality that never really sat right with me.
My reluctance with "Bi" is, in the discussions about Korrasami endgame I keep seeing "technically they cannot be lesbians but are Bi because they were with Mako". My issue with that is that as Mako is apparently the *first* relationship both girls had, it fits the pattern of "tried Hetero because it was expected, but did not work" journey most LBGT go through before self-determining their proper sexual orientation.
The first (few) attempted hetero relationships do not color the final orientation(s). At this point they would not be Bi "because they dated a guy". They would be Bi if from this point-forward they were comfortable/wanted/continued to date either gender. That is for such individuals to determine of themselves, not be told "because of your failed attempts with guys you are Bi".
Maybe K&A *are* bisexual. We really don't know. Yet. I just don't want to tag them with it based solely upon the reasoning of their failed attempts to be hetero with Mako, despite the bisexual flag coloration of the mountains. Maybe that is the clue they are Bi, or maybe purely pink (gay/lesbian) mountains were not feasible to do.
Though I'll point out that Korra was dodging a PINK Spirit energy weapon until she stepped in its path to face it head-on.
If anything, bi would be closer I think. Seeing as both women didn't give up on men, just decided to date each other for a bit. Honestly, it doesn't really matter what was meant from that last scene, it quite possible might be what keeps people talking about Korra long after it's done, which would be sad to think this is what it took to keep the series alive.
As far as all valid points, in my opinion, I think people are just reading way to much into it. Let us wait for the creators and what they want to say.
Everyone got what they wanted from the series, we should be happy that in the end, even the crazed korrasami fanfictioners got theirs. So we should be grateful that the creators decided to cater to everyone =)
Ceorin wrote:
Seeing as both women didn't give up on men
How would you know if they did or not? Of the many things said to be ambiguous from what was seen, *that* certainly was never addressed.
We *do* know Korra said the break up with Mako was definite. And their Finale conversation where Mako told her he'd follow her into battle and her response was framed only on their individual faces. They were not framed together. Whereas ALL of her moments with Asami had both of them in the same frame (except for 1 second's focus on Asami's smile at being asked to sit with Korra).
Also check Asami's body language and attitude when first meeting Price Wu. It was less "not interested in you" and more "not interested in men". Leastwise, that's my professional assessment of her in that scene.
Certainly neither have dated Mako since. Other than the dinner with Prince Wu, where Mako pointedly asked "what is with you two?", paralleling Bolin asking the same question of Makorra back in Book One when they were under tension before getting together.
Anyway, as it seems Korrasami is *starting* the next level of their relationship in earnest now that all the crazy is finished with for a while, the only way we can know if they (either or both) are bi or lesbian is for the Creatives to either make a statement or give us more stories which will tell us.
Children. For those fan writers and artists interested in depicting Korrasami with Kid(s), and thus men as necessary… They are spending time in the Spirit World. If there is to ever be femme/femme only pregnancy(-ies), the Spirit World is the place for them to be so gifted/blessed/pranked/cursed by entities, or even by just the nature of the realm.
If I ever take a break from Kim Possible fanfics for Korrasami, that is the way I'd do it.
There is always adoption or a hypothetical process that I like to refer to as "science babies."
Essentially, you hollow out a sperm cell, take DNA from an egg cell, & ram it inside. It works in mice, but they've had trouble getting it to work in humans for some reason.
Neo Bahamut wrote:
There is always adoption or a hypothetical process that I like to refer to as "science babies."
Essentially, you hollow out a sperm cell, take DNA from an egg cell, & ram it inside. It works in mice, but they've had trouble getting it to work in humans for some reason.
Yep. Know all about that. Also retrovirii, which is very popular with the Kim Possible Kigo fanfics.
But with the Spirit World of Avatar, using spirit magic is not only more organic for that world, but more unique than Mad (or even grumpy!) Science. It can be that the very Nature of the Spirit Realm, harkening back to what Iroh said about love there, could easily allow parthenogenesis do to K&A's Close Loving Spiritual Bonding™, or having run in with spirit entities deciding to bless, gift, prank, or curse them with "what they really want"™.
While the former is beautiful, from a writer's standpoint, the latter set of circumstances allow a greater range of storytelling options.
Personally, adoption is what I think would be the most likely thing to happen. Asami has lost both her parents, so the idea that she could make a difference in someone's life who also lost their parents would mean a lot to her, and Korra would totally be down for that.
Deist Zealot wrote:
Konietzko's blog post confirms that both women are bi.
Completely forgot that part. This is why I chose to save that page as a reference.
Personally, adoption is what I think would be the most likely thing to happen. Asami has lost both her parents, so the idea that she could make a difference in someone's life who also lost their parents would mean a lot to her, and Korra would totally be down for that.
This is logical & I prefer it to Spirit Babies or even Science Babies.
I also like the idea of adopting, which need not rule out spirit-babes in addition.
Deist Zealot wrote:
Konietzko's blog post confirms that both women are bi.
Technically he does not. What he says in a parenthetical is " (Despite what you might have heard, bisexual people are real!)", which is the ONLY use of Bi or Bisexual in his article. Sure you can infer that he applies that to Korrasami, but he does not explicitly state they are bi or lesbians.
However, the painting the mountain backdrop with the bisexual pride flag colors does seem to lean to them being bisexuals.
I don't have an issue with it if that is the case, being bi myself, but the therapist in me takes issue with the reasoning of "because they were attracted to Mako (a guy), they are (technically) bisexual", a reasoning applied to Korrasami by several people, but which is patently false. Especially for young people after their first (few) times trying to be heteronormal. I've heard in the past few days "bisexual erasure" when trying to say they are lesbians, but by so many insisting them bisexual, that is "lesbian erasure".
If Bryke wants them bisexual, fine. But I hope it is not due to the reasoning they are because of their failed dating of Mako.
In Real Life, it is up to the individual to determine if their orientation is gay/lesbian, or bi. Not for others to impose a label on them due to fallacious reasoning. (and don't get me started on how coerced sex—hetero or queer—does not make a person "bi" either.
There is really no problem of "lesbian erasure". That's direct confirmation from the creators, don't pretend like it's otherwise. This is the same argument those people who thought the ending wasn't spelled out clear enough for them were using.
I've always been for Korrasami. I've had no issue with the ending and saw all the build up as it happened.
All I said was Konietzko's blog post did not directly apply "bisexual" to Korra or Asami (the word was *only* mentioned once as an aside comment in a parenthetical). I acknowledge the symbology of the mountain coloring and everything. I *only* challenge if Korra & Asami are bi or not. And if they say they are, is it based on them *wanting* them Bi, meaning they can have relationships with males in the future, or is the label bandied about because they *used* to date a guy—which is not necessarily true of first attempts at heteronormality—but never will again. And I'm asking this as a bisexual myself.
Succinctly, I challenge: Are they bi despite dating Mako, or are they bi because of dating Mako?
It is a sublime distinction. The former is fine if that is the intention. The later is fallacious reasoning which requires a bit more understanding of the self-discovery journey of emergent sexual-orientation. Which means they could be lesbians no matter that they once dated a guy.
I've had many a client whose family and friends insist they cannot be gay/lesbian, must be bi due to having tried the hetero relationship thing. It is not easy for them to deal wtih
The parenthetical rather clearly referred to Korra and Asami, both of whom seemed to be genuinely interested in Mako as opposed to feeling obligated to date boys. We don't even know if homophobia exists in the Avatarverse (see what I did there)?
Deist Zealot wrote:
The parenthetical rather clearly referred to Korra and Asami, both of whom seemed to be genuinely interested in Mako as opposed to feeling obligated to date boys. We don't even know if homophobia exists in the Avatarverse (see what I did there)?
I would feel much better if among ALL of Konitzko's words in that blog if "Bisexual" was used more than the one time as a parenthetical aside comment. And "Bi" not even once.
Fruipit wrote:
Neither have 'renounced' the fact they both genuinely liked Mako as a love interest. They're bisexual, not homosexual.
"Renounce" their interest in Mako at the time? Not a requirement in determination of bi vs lesbian orientations. It is not necessary to do a "hetero erasure" to determine an LGBT orientation. ESPECIALLY when it is their first ever relationship. FOR MANY a non-hetero, their attempts to be hetero shapes their journey of self discovery, and there is no need to invalidate their past experiences.
Although in extreme cases they might want to erase the *person* without erasure of the facts. There are past dates, my El Jerko first ex-husband whose name I never ever use anymore among them, I wish to never think of again, but I still acknowledge the dates and the first marriage happened.
No, what determines if a person is Bi or gay/lesbian is who will they willingly date from then on. In my practice I routinely help individuals, many young, to navigate their self-discovery, and their support system on how to best help them. And "Bi because you used to date hetero" is not a valid concept. I just hope Bryke understands this distinction.
Still, Korra *did* say "I think we both know that this… us… doesn't work", so that could be her coming to the determination that hetero was not working for her, not when she had chemistry with Asami.
Consider this… were Aang and Katara bi or hetero? All the same absences of evidence surrounding Korrasami are likewise absent with them. And don't use children. I'm bi, and a grandmother, so I can tell you from personal children are not a determining factor in the "bi or…" question.
Here is an example…
You're a shoe (for this example lets go with just 1, not the pair). Someone obtains you and tries to put you on their right foot. It is an uncomfortable fit. So they put you on the other foot and it is a very comfortable fit. They can *force* you on the wrong foot, and even wear you like that for a while despite the discomfort… does the change the fact you're a Left Shoe? No.
However there *are* footwear, slippers, socks, which are meant to be worn of either foot. They would be "bi-footal"
At this point, unless I can get from Bryke a response to satisfy *me* on the "bi, or" question and that they understand the distinction what makes Bi is future dating not past, the only way we'll know for sure is if future canon stories depict either of them *willingly* with a guy.
Deist Zealot wrote:
The parenthetical rather clearly referred to Korra and Asami, both of whom seemed to be genuinely interested in Mako as opposed to feeling obligated to date boys. We don't even know if homophobia exists in the Avatarverse (see what I did there)?
This. Other than that, I don't care about this argument.
