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  • I'm gonna call this one, but Hiroshi was too docile for a prisoner who was once a twisted mastermind. He was obsessed with eradicating bending and very much got consumed by his own hatred. Three years later, he's unrealistically sane. I thought that Hiroshi would be in a more unstable mind to the point where he would only mutter a few words at a time. Why? Because from what I've seen, the length of time spent in prison usually take a toll on people of the same character as Hiroshi. Basically, the failure of a power hungry or anger driven villain to achieve his goals, only to end up in jail, plus the memories that led to his path to darkness, plus being trapped in prison is more than enough to make such a villain lose his sanity. I mean sure, for some people, prison does change them for the better, but for a person like Hiroshi, he doesn't fit that bill. His sanity and docile behavior just doesn't add up.

    Besides, it would've been more dramatic if Asami met her father, in an incoherent state, only for her to talk him down for all the bad things he had done. Then later, would Asami realize that he's suffered enough and then try to forgive him.

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    • Perhaps his time in prison allowed him to think about all the bad things he had done, and vow to change for the better.

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    • For some people, prison is a good time to reflect on your past mistakes. Hiroshi obviously has had time to understand the things he did were wrong. And he was hardly a "twisted mastermind" he was sad about losing his wife and took it out on the wrong people.

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      For some people, prison is a good time to reflect on your past mistakes. Hiroshi obviously has had time to understand the things he did were wrong. And he was hardly a "twisted mastermind" he was sad about losing his wife and took it out on the wrong people.

      Yeah, but still, I find his state of mind to be quite unrealistically sane.  Just think, the sadness, the isolation, isn't that enough to degrade one's state of mind to the point where the person would be incoherent?  I thought Hiroshi would be more like Red Skull in this scene:  http://youtu.be/oLnZnXDTho4

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    • Torresp wrote:
      QueenCeline wrote:
      For some people, prison is a good time to reflect on your past mistakes. Hiroshi obviously has had time to understand the things he did were wrong. And he was hardly a "twisted mastermind" he was sad about losing his wife and took it out on the wrong people.
      Yeah, but still, I find his state of mind to be quite unrealistically sane.  Just think, the sadness, the isolation, isn't that enough to degrade one's state of mind to the point where the person would be incoherent?  I thought Hiroshi would be more like Red Skull in this scene:  http://youtu.be/oLnZnXDTho4

      For some people, yes, it would be, but not for everyone. Some people can come out of prison with no negative effects

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    • I think it's quite the opposite. I think "prison makes the evil mastermind crazy" was either invented by or greatly exaggerated by works of fiction.

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    • Most people don't get crazy in prisons, even the ones with terrible living conditions and forced work. Isolation can certainly make just about any person go insane, but prisons don't tend to isolate people. In fact, all of the ones I have seen are composed of rigid, highly integrated communities with strong, well maintained unwritten rules.

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    • Torresp wrote:
      I'm gonna call this one, but Hiroshi was too docile for a prisoner who was once a twisted mastermind. He was obsessed with eradicating bending and very much got consumed by his own hatred. Three years later, he's unrealistically sane. I thought that Hiroshi would be in a more unstable mind to the point where he would only mutter a few words at a time. Why? Because from what I've seen, the length of time spent in prison usually take a toll on people of the same character as Hiroshi. Basically, the failure of a power hungry or anger driven villain to achieve his goals, only to end up in jail, plus the memories that led to his path to darkness, plus being trapped in prison is more than enough to make such a villain lose his sanity. I mean sure, for some people, prison does change them for the better, but for a person like Hiroshi, he doesn't fit that bill. His sanity and docile behavior just doesn't add up.

      Besides, it would've been more dramatic if Asami met her father, in an incoherent state, only for her to talk him down for all the bad things he had done. Then later, would Asami realize that he's suffered enough and then try to forgive him.

      Insanity is a legal definition, not a clinical one. The problem is that people in general have no idea how the mind works, and have no idea what insanity really means.

      Hiroshi was never "insane", and his time in prison by no means would dictate that he would digress or become "insane".

      He was a man who endured personal tragedy and his personal views were skewed by the trauma and resulting irrational hatred he allowed himself to succumb to. 

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    • Lunacyde wrote:
      Torresp wrote:
      I'm gonna call this one, but Hiroshi was too docile for a prisoner who was once a twisted mastermind. He was obsessed with eradicating bending and very much got consumed by his own hatred. Three years later, he's unrealistically sane. I thought that Hiroshi would be in a more unstable mind to the point where he would only mutter a few words at a time. Why? Because from what I've seen, the length of time spent in prison usually take a toll on people of the same character as Hiroshi. Basically, the failure of a power hungry or anger driven villain to achieve his goals, only to end up in jail, plus the memories that led to his path to darkness, plus being trapped in prison is more than enough to make such a villain lose his sanity. I mean sure, for some people, prison does change them for the better, but for a person like Hiroshi, he doesn't fit that bill. His sanity and docile behavior just doesn't add up.

      Besides, it would've been more dramatic if Asami met her father, in an incoherent state, only for her to talk him down for all the bad things he had done. Then later, would Asami realize that he's suffered enough and then try to forgive him.

      Insanity is a legal definition, not a clinical one. The problem is that people in general have no idea how the mind works, and have no idea what insanity really means.

      Hiroshi was never "insane", and his time in prison by no means would dictate that he would digress or become "insane".

      He was a man who endured personal tragedy and his personal views were skewed by the trauma and resulting irrational hatred he allowed himself to succumb to. 

      It's not just prison that would cause shifts in mental state.  The point I'm trying to make is that all other factors need to be taken into consideration together, not seperately.  Combine the personal tragedy, personal views, trauma, and irrational hatred with his failure, and isolation in prison.  If he succumbed to all that, wouldn't it be more than enough to cosmically alter his mentality?

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    • Torresp wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      Torresp wrote:
      I'm gonna call this one, but Hiroshi was too docile for a prisoner who was once a twisted mastermind. He was obsessed with eradicating bending and very much got consumed by his own hatred. Three years later, he's unrealistically sane. I thought that Hiroshi would be in a more unstable mind to the point where he would only mutter a few words at a time. Why? Because from what I've seen, the length of time spent in prison usually take a toll on people of the same character as Hiroshi. Basically, the failure of a power hungry or anger driven villain to achieve his goals, only to end up in jail, plus the memories that led to his path to darkness, plus being trapped in prison is more than enough to make such a villain lose his sanity. I mean sure, for some people, prison does change them for the better, but for a person like Hiroshi, he doesn't fit that bill. His sanity and docile behavior just doesn't add up.

      Besides, it would've been more dramatic if Asami met her father, in an incoherent state, only for her to talk him down for all the bad things he had done. Then later, would Asami realize that he's suffered enough and then try to forgive him.

      Insanity is a legal definition, not a clinical one. The problem is that people in general have no idea how the mind works, and have no idea what insanity really means.

      Hiroshi was never "insane", and his time in prison by no means would dictate that he would digress or become "insane".

      He was a man who endured personal tragedy and his personal views were skewed by the trauma and resulting irrational hatred he allowed himself to succumb to. 

      It's not just prison that would cause shifts in mental state.  The point I'm trying to make is that all other factors need to be taken into consideration together, not seperately.  Combine the personal tragedy, personal views, trauma, and irrational hatred with his failure, and isolation in prison.  If he succumbed to all that, wouldn't it be more than enough to cosmically alter his mentality?

      Probably not, no. Insanity in the form that you seem to think about is extremely rare, and most of the time biological. Personal tragedies, and obssessive ideological personalities, on the other hand, are quite common...

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    • From my limited experience with the corrections system their interaction seems very genuine and likely.

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    • He lerned his lesson, let him out.

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    • Lunacyde wrote:
      From my limited experience with the corrections system their interaction seems very genuine and likely.

      He's in prison, not a correctional facility.  Entirely different settings, entirely different treatments

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    • I'm suprised she waited so long to see her own father.

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    • Torresp wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      From my limited experience with the corrections system their interaction seems very genuine and likely.
      He's in prison, not a correctional facility.  Entirely different settings, entirely different treatments

      Actually no, a prison and a correctional facility are two separate terms for the same thing, or rather all prisons are correctional facilities, but not all correctional facilities are prisons. Prisons are one specific sub type of correctional facility, as are jails. There is no difference in setting or treatment because all prisons ARE correctional facilities. You are conflating correctional facilities with mental health facilities. They are all part of the correctional system though. The fact remains that his reaction and interactions in the show are far more realistic than you are crediting, and are exactly how many prisoners act in real life situations in prison.

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    • Lunacyde wrote:
      Torresp wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      From my limited experience with the corrections system their interaction seems very genuine and likely.
      He's in prison, not a correctional facility.  Entirely different settings, entirely different treatments
      Actually no, a prison and a correctional facility are two separate terms for the same thing, or rather all prisons are correctional facilities, but not all correctional facilities are prisons. Prisons are one specific sub type of correctional facility, as are jails. There is no difference in setting or treatment because all prisons ARE correctional facilities. You are conflating correctional facilities with mental health facilities. They are all part of the correctional system though. The fact remains that his reaction and interactions in the show are far more realistic than you are crediting, and are exactly how many prisoners act in real life situations in prison.

      What if they just want to cage you up until you die, like Kurvira is doing.

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      Torresp wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      From my limited experience with the corrections system their interaction seems very genuine and likely.
      He's in prison, not a correctional facility.  Entirely different settings, entirely different treatments
      Actually no, a prison and a correctional facility are two separate terms for the same thing, or rather all prisons are correctional facilities, but not all correctional facilities are prisons. Prisons are one specific sub type of correctional facility, as are jails. There is no difference in setting or treatment because all prisons ARE correctional facilities. You are conflating correctional facilities with mental health facilities. They are all part of the correctional system though. The fact remains that his reaction and interactions in the show are far more realistic than you are crediting, and are exactly how many prisoners act in real life situations in prison.
      What if they just want to cage you up until you die, like Kurvira is doing.

      Ummm, that is a bit off topic. i'm not sure what your question is.

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    • Lunacyde wrote:
      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      Torresp wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      From my limited experience with the corrections system their interaction seems very genuine and likely.
      He's in prison, not a correctional facility.  Entirely different settings, entirely different treatments
      Actually no, a prison and a correctional facility are two separate terms for the same thing, or rather all prisons are correctional facilities, but not all correctional facilities are prisons. Prisons are one specific sub type of correctional facility, as are jails. There is no difference in setting or treatment because all prisons ARE correctional facilities. You are conflating correctional facilities with mental health facilities. They are all part of the correctional system though. The fact remains that his reaction and interactions in the show are far more realistic than you are crediting, and are exactly how many prisoners act in real life situations in prison.
      What if they just want to cage you up until you die, like Kurvira is doing.
      Ummm, that is a bit off topic. i'm not sure what your question is.

      What if you don't want to correct their behavior, it is still prison, but not a correction faccilitey.

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    • I am speaking purely from the modern first world definition of prison and correctional facility which would be what applies to the prison where Hiroshi is being held.

      Even in Kuvira's case though it can be argued that she is trying to "correct" what she sees as flaws in their behavior (namely not being loyal to her) through hard work and other punishment. Not everyone who is held in "correctional facilities" is meant to be rehabilitated. Those who are on death row, or have life sentences are still housed in correctional facilities even though incarceration is the main objective and not behavior correction/rehabilitation.

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    • Lunacyde wrote:
      I am speaking purely from the modern first world definition of prison and correctional facility which would be what applies to the prison where Hiroshi is being held.

      Even in Kuvira's case though it can be argued that she is trying to "correct" what she sees as flaws in their behavior (namely not being loyal to her) through hard work and other punishment. Not everyone who is held in "correctional facilities" is meant to be rehabilitated. Those who are on death row, or have life sentences are still housed in correctional facilities even though incarceration is the main objective and not behavior correction/rehabilitation.

      Oh, that makes sence, now I understand.

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    • Don't be too sure...prison has a different effect on different people. I've never been there myself, but I do know that some people come out of it completely changed, for better or worse. It's not unheard of for someone to leave prison completely denouncing the criminal lives they previously led. On the other hand, sometimes they come out even more hardened and dangerous. It's all relative.

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    • Avatar Steve wrote:
      Don't be too sure...prison has a different effect on different people. I've never been there myself, but I do know that some people come out of it completely changed, for better or worse. It's not unheard of for someone to leave prison completely denouncing the criminal lives they previously led. On the other hand, sometimes they come out even more hardened and dangerous. It's all relative.

      But it depends on what kind of person they are, what their background is, etc.  I'm just saying it's too one dimensional for Hiroshi to turn out sane and docile, considering how he was consumed by hatred.  I still think a lot of things in Legend of Korra are one-dimensional, like not having Korra fight other, recurrent villains during some episodes.

      My point is, it would've been more dramatic and multi-dimensional if they had Hiroshi get trapped in the prison of his own mind, and his failure and hatred combine take a toll on his mind to the point where he speaks so semi-coherently, because he's so consumed by trauma.  

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    • But it depends on what kind of person they are, what their background is, etc.

      Yeah, okay, if you show the character has a history of mental instability & you show how they were treated that it triggered this, it could work.

      But more often than not, what happens is that the mental illness is not an actual plot arc, it just suddenly appears when the author wants to switch things up, & disappears just as quickly when the author wants the old character back. It's used to trick the audience into thinking that the story is thought-provoking.

      In general, plot devices are never "better" or "worse" than other plot devices, what matters is whether the plot device is used well or poorly.

      I still think a lot of things in Legend of Korra are one-dimensional, like not having Korra fight other, recurrent villains during some episodes.

      Recurring doesn't equal depth. Combustion Man appeared many times, but we still barely knew anything about him.

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    • Torresp wrote:

      But it depends on what kind of person they are, what their background is, etc.  I'm just saying it's too one dimensional for Hiroshi to turn out sane and docile, considering how he was consumed by hatred.  I still think a lot of things in Legend of Korra are one-dimensional, like not having Korra fight other, recurrent villains during some episodes.

      My point is, it would've been more dramatic and multi-dimensional if they had Hiroshi get trapped in the prison of his own mind, and his failure and hatred combine take a toll on his mind to the point where he speaks so semi-coherently, because he's so consumed by trauma.  

      I think otherwise. It would be jarringly unrealistic, one-dimensional and a terrible message to pass. Hiroshi never showed that kind of mental instability, and prison and defeat would most likely curb his hate.

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    • Torresp wrote:
      Avatar Steve wrote:
      Don't be too sure...prison has a different effect on different people. I've never been there myself, but I do know that some people come out of it completely changed, for better or worse. It's not unheard of for someone to leave prison completely denouncing the criminal lives they previously led. On the other hand, sometimes they come out even more hardened and dangerous. It's all relative.
      But it depends on what kind of person they are, what their background is, etc.  I'm just saying it's too one dimensional for Hiroshi to turn out sane and docile, considering how he was consumed by hatred.  I still think a lot of things in Legend of Korra are one-dimensional, like not having Korra fight other, recurrent villains during some episodes.

      My point is, it would've been more dramatic and multi-dimensional if they had Hiroshi get trapped in the prison of his own mind, and his failure and hatred combine take a toll on his mind to the point where he speaks so semi-coherently, because he's so consumed by trauma.  

      There are plenty of accounts of hardened criminals, gang members, etc who have gone to prison as hateful, dangerous men, and found peace, religion, contentment etc in prison and become docile/calm individuals. It's certainly not outside the realm of possiblity. Frankly you're being a bit closed-minded in your analysis.

      And him spiraling out of control is not really that multi-dimensional, or compelling storywise. Nor is it realistic as most people who go to prison do not have a mental break.

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    • I honestly don't understand why you are precieving Hiroshi's attitude after 3 years in jail as "unrealistically sane".

      Ozai only spent a year in jail before he began to calm down, to the point of offering his own son advice. Granted, he was still unstable, but he showed signs of progress after only a single year in prison. 

      Really, what I don't like about the reunion scene was that it seems as if it will never be touched on again. We only have 3 episodes left and at no point does it seem like we will ever see Asami's father again. Hopefully I am wrong, seeing as the image that revealed his return in Season 4 is from a scene we haven't seen yet.

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    • Also we can deduce that biology of humans is different in their world then ours, so it could have a different effect then what is common.

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