FANDOM


  • Who is the best?

      Loading editor
    • Zaheer

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer tied with Kuvira, then Amon, then Unalaq.

        Loading editor
    • Assuming Unalaq is not in his fused with Vaatu Dark Avatar form, I'd say:

      Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira > Unalaq

      Amon being the clear leader, due to the very powerful ability to bloodbend without the aid of the full moon. He is also a powerful conventional martial artist and has the power to permanently block bending.

      Zaheer is probably the best conventional martial artist of the four, had an impressive acclamation to airbending in a short period of time and was even able to duel the master airbender at the time, he was able to fight both Tonraq and Avatar Korra (in chains) simultaneously and overpower them, capturing Korra. Also, he was the second airbender in history to gain the ability to fly.

      Unalaq and Kuvira is a little closer and may go either way. Both are powerful benders, Kuvira being particularly creative with her bending as evidenced in her duel with Korra. Unalaq has mastery of waterbending and is particularly adept in spiritual matters. However, neither seems to be able to really take hits well and both come off as less durable than Amon and particularly Zaheer. Unalaq got messed up a few times by lesser opponents and barely beat Tonraq, whom Zaheer beat in a 1v2. Kuvira handily beat (an admittedly regressed) Avatar Korra in a duel

        Loading editor
    • Weltall8000 wrote:
      Assuming Unalaq is not in his fused with Vaatu Dark Avatar form, I'd say:

      Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira > Unalaq

      Zaheer would probably kill Ammon suffocated as he did with the Queen Hou-Ting

        Loading editor
    • Amon or Unalaq (with Vaatu). Amon, since if you can't resist his bloodbending then it is game over for you. Unalaq because firstly, he can maybe resist Amon's bloodbending and secondly, he is a dark avatar, so he has the potential to bend all elements.

        Loading editor
    • Airbender Master wrote:
      Weltall8000 wrote:
      Assuming Unalaq is not in his fused with Vaatu Dark Avatar form, I'd say:

      Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira > Unalaq

      Zaheer would probably kill Ammon suffocated as he did with the Queen Hou-Ting

      I'm sure he'd have an easy time doing that as he's being blood bended into a pretzel.

        Loading editor
    • ELEMENTAL UNITY wrote:
      Amon or Unalaq (with Vaatu). Amon, since if you can't resist his bloodbending then it is game over for you. Unalaq because firstly, he can maybe resist Amon's bloodbending and secondly, he is a dark avatar, so he has the potential to bend all elements.

      We are considering Unalaq without Vaatu, and he cannot to bend all elements.

      Weltall8000

      It's depends who strikes first. he cannot bloodbending if cannot breath.

        Loading editor
    • ELEMENTAL UNITY wrote:
      Amon or Unalaq (with Vaatu). Amon, since if you can't resist his bloodbending then it is game over for you. Unalaq because firstly, he can maybe resist Amon's bloodbending and secondly, he is a dark avatar, so he has the potential to bend all elements.

      If Dark Avatar, he'd probably win. He'd be able to break bloodbending and smack him around with tentacles and energy beams. He easily overpowered Korra until the Godzilla battle in front of Republic City. Thing is though, Vaatu never received the elements from the Lion Turtles, so he doesn't have them like Raava does.

        Loading editor
    • Weltall8000

      It's depends who strikes first. he cannot bloodbending if cannot breath.

      Based on...? Also, Amon has shown the ability to instantly bloodbend and used it in dodging opponents' bending. The body can last for minutes without air, messing with internal organs and fluids can kill someone alot quicker.

        Loading editor
    • If Unalaq isn't fused with Vaatu, then my full support lies with Amon for reasons already mentioned by Weltall8000.

        Loading editor
    • Amon > Anything that's not fused with Raava or Vaatu. Blood bending is too over-powered. You basically lose unless you are the avatar. Zaheer is way stronger than Kuvira and Unalaq. Hell, he could solo them both after he learned weightlessness(mostly because an earthbender is at disadvantage against someone who flies, she would have to rely mostly on her metalic little sharp things, whatever they are). 

      Unalaq is strong but not that impressive compared with other LoK villains. He's like Ozai if he was a waterbender(without the comet obviously). So yeah, to my eyes:

      Unalaq<Kuvira<Zaheer<Amon

        Loading editor
    • Actually if you are a powerful enough waterbender, then it would be possible for you to resist bloodbending as shown by Katara and Korra, which both did this without Raava or Vaatu.

        Loading editor
    • Amon definitely has an advantage here in that he is able to bloodbend while carrying on as usual. He can bloodbend, while they try to resist, he can run up and whallop them.

        Loading editor
    • Basically, Zaheer would have an edge against anyone except Amon if he could avoid getting trapped in rock and/or ice.  Unalaq was a punk and any of the others could trounce him.  Amon would trounce all of them with his hands literally tied behind his back.

      It should, however, be noted that we haven't seen the full extent of what Kuvira can do.  Agile as she is, I wouldn't be surprised if she could successfully trap Zaheer in rock before he could get close enough to breathbend her.  (And if she got an armor strip on his face, he'd be done.)

      Teal-deer: what Lightning Laxus said.

        Loading editor
    • You forgot  Vaatu.  He was the true threat of Book 2.  Believe me, he's the only villain 1000x more dangerous than Ozai himself.  

        Loading editor
    • Vaatu's been discussed, but the OP specifically listed those four characters and later explicitly noted excluding Vaatu from the ranking.

        Loading editor
    • Kuvira is the weakest, she depends basically thrown metal pieces to tie them to oponent. Zaheer can defend yourself using airbend, like Korra does. Amon can bloodbendig to control her and Unalaq can dodge her projectiles.

        Loading editor
    • I'd say Amon would win due to his psychic bloodbending. Only Unalaq might stand a chance at resisting since he's a fellow waterbender. Even if Zaheer tried asphyxiation, based on Toph and Korra's attempts to bend at Yakone and Tarrlok, respectively, the bloodbending grip would stop his bending midway. And then Amon could just strip Zaheer of his airbending. Amon was also crazy agile ... dodging lightning at point-blank range is pretty impressive.

      It's hard for me to judge the other three. Zaheer's agility coupled with his flight makes him a pretty deadly adversary but Unalaq was a formidable waterbender even without Vaatu's help. In his fight with Tonraq, he didn't seem to be breaking a sweat at all. Admittedly, he didn't do so well against Korra in jail, but he did manage to block Mako's attacks with just a minimal amount of water. He also had a surprising amount of power behind his waterbending as he managed to break through Bolin's earth wall ... that's some concussive force there. And then we can't discount the fact that he used Dark spirits to help him, and they're nigh invincible unless you use spirit bending.

      Kuvira, while skilled, would need to be more crafty in dealing with the other three, who quite obviously have the edge in terms of raw power. I mean, impressive as her metal brace-bending was, it was still just that ... bending a couple of metal bands. I might be being too harsh on Kuvira, but that's just how I see it.

        Loading editor
    • can you imagine all of them working together? but that won't work out to well because all of them have a difference plans to kill the avatar and take over the world. I don't if kuvira wants to kill the avatar and take the world.

        Loading editor
    • They are all very different. Kuvira is the opposite of Zaheer, Amon and Unalaq are not exact opposites but kinda are in some way.

      I doubt Unalaq would be able to withstand Amon's bloodbending. To do so, he should have more control than him. The only one that was able to pull that was Katara against Hama and that was because they were both using bloodbending thanks to the full moon's power. Amon can bloodbend without it, which means his control must be insane since neither of them were able to pull that. I doubt Katara would be able to overcome Amon's bending, full moon or not. Same goes for Unalaq obviously. It makes sense that the avatar state counters it since his control is stronger than pretty much anyone.

        Loading editor
    • Urano23 wrote:
      They are all very different. Kuvira is the opposite of Zaheer, Amon and Unalaq are not exact opposites but kinda are in some way.

      I doubt Unalaq would be able to withstand Amon's bloodbending. To do so, he should have more control than him. The only one that was able to pull that was Katara against Hama and that was because they were both using bloodbending thanks to the full moon's power. Amon can bloodbend without it, which means his control must be insane since neither of them were able to pull that. I doubt Katara would be able to overcome Amon's bending, full moon or not. Same goes for Unalaq obviously. It makes sense that the avatar state counters it since his control is stronger than pretty much anyone.

      Katara wasn't the only one to break free from bloodbending, Korra also managed to do this against Amon even without the Avatar state or the full moon.

        Loading editor
    • They are all as strong as each other. And Amon can (seemingly) on bloodbend people if they are close range. Korra was able to escape him (from that snowy shack where Tarlock lost his bending) despite only being ~40 metres away from him by the time he got to the slop. Kuvira and Zaheer can bend at far longer ranges. And we also know that sheer will power can counteract bloodbending, as evidenced when Korra kicked him through the window despite not being a waterbender at the time. 

        Loading editor
    • Zuko0sHon0r wrote:
      They are all as strong as each other. And Amon can (seemingly) on bloodbend people if they are close range. Korra was able to escape him (from that snowy shack where Tarlock lost his bending) despite only being ~40 metres away from him by the time he got to the slop. Kuvira and Zaheer can bend at far longer ranges. And we also know that sheer will power can counteract bloodbending, as evidenced when Korra kicked him through the window despite not being a waterbender at the time. 

      I don't think that you can counteract bloodbending with sheer will power alone, but I have to admit that I don't have a better explination to how Korra could break free from Amon's grip when she wasn't a waterbender at the time.

        Loading editor
    • Take another look at TLA's chapter. Katara was 100% free because her bending was "more powerful than hama's", according to her. Hama was completely unable to bloodbend her. 

      Korra didn't break free, she basically kicked Amon while being bloodbended. It had nothing to do with bending, it was will power alone.

        Loading editor
    • I don't know, to resist bloodbending with will power seems a little too convenient for me, but I can't say if it is true or not.

        Loading editor
    • They are all as strong as each other. And Amon can (seemingly) on bloodbend people if they are close range. Korra was able to escape him (from that snowy shack where Tarlock lost his bending) despite only being ~40 metres away from him by the time he got to the slop. Kuvira and Zaheer can bend at far longer ranges. And we also know that sheer will power can counteract bloodbending, as evidenced when Korra kicked him through the window despite not being a waterbender at the time. 

      We don't know that willpower breaks bloodbending, we see that she surprised Amon by pummeling him with airbending while she was believed to be sealed from bending. As he was slammed against the wall, he started to bloodbend her from the ground, but only apparently had her upper body under his control, as he was still trying to recover from the unexpected onslaught. Then she fired a blast from her leg, defenestrating him.

        Loading editor
    • That is an explanation that seems very logical.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah Id say Amon wins.

        Loading editor
    • Ah fair enough. I guess its good that Amon is dead, because he is waaaay to OP 

        Loading editor
    • Amon is the strongest one, my opinion

        Loading editor
    • Unalauq is easily beat by Amon, as his water bending skills are easily deflected, redirected, and eventually taken away. Amon teams up with Zaheer being that there morals are both compelled  against her brutal use of bending to bully the weak. She had a chance  of killing Amon by himself, but with Zaheer she had no chance. Then it comes down to Zaheer and Amon, with Zaheers lack of atachment and mastery of airbending he can resist his blood bending, pumble him on to the ground, and sufficate him to death.



                                                                                                                  Zaheer: WINNER 

      Toon in next time to see the royal firenation family duke it out.

        Loading editor
    • No, Zaheer can't pummel Noatak lmfao Zaheer couldn't even beat Tenzin, who couldn't even beat Tarrlok. And Tenzin had Lin, Mako, Bolin, Asami, and a hell of a lot of metalbenders by his side. Zaheer flying does not make him suddenly a monster. By the way, suffocation only works on completely defenseless opponenets. Zaheer still gets tossed. This is the correct order:

      Dark Avatar Unalaq> Noatak> normal Unalaq> Zaheer=Kuvira.

      Now, in their ideologies, I'd say that

      Noatak> Zaheer=Kuvira> Unalaq

        Loading editor
    • TarrlokUltimateWaterbender wrote:

      Now, in their ideologies, I'd say that

      Noatak> Zaheer=Kuvira> Unalaq

      Unalaq there not ideologies, he just wanted power.

        Loading editor
    • IDEOLOGY TALK, GO!

      Amon wanted equality, but his idea of it is simply nonsense. If certian people are gifted in something, such as a strong body or an intelligent mind, do you bring them down and remove those traits just to make everyone equal? Of course not. That would be silly, and will "downgrade" civilization. That's like a normal teenage girl seeing a beautiful model, and then disfiuring her face out of envy to make her "like everyone else." If the gifted are abusing their gifts, change them, and make them use their gifts to benefit everyone. If Amon did succeed, then he will have to deal with other types of inequalities such as class, money, power, race, gender, technology, etc.; "lame" people will see "normal" people the same way as "normal" people saw "benders". There will ALWAYS be inequality.

      Unalaq wanted tradition. He wanted to make things the way they were: Bring back the spirits and create a new spiritual era with him leading mankind as an Avatar -- a Dark Avatar. I'm totally against traditions and archaic stuff so... f*ck you Unalaq! That's similar to what the "Islamic State" is trying to do: Bring back the "golden era" (of Islam), but in a really, really, really f*cked up way.

      Zaheer is my favourite: chaos and freedom! I can go on and on about chaos: how it creates life; it is imperfections and accidents (which is evolution); it is conflict; it is ignoring borders and mixing things up (art); it is variety and interaction; it is change; the universe itself is chaotic, and it is beautiful; it is destruction, which leads to creation; the universe is literally born out of chaos (both in mythology and in real life -- a giant, chaotic explosion and cosmic collisions); it is revolution and new ideas, new order; blah blah blah etc. I'm so defensive against it because it's almost always viewd as "evil" while order is "good"; they'ret both evil (as shown with Kuvira), so a balance of them is needed. What Zaheer probably wanted was to take down order, to return things to the beginning -- pure chaos -- and rebuild the world in a way he wanted it. Everything has a cycle, and everything must die to begin anew. New generations replace old ones. Zaheer probably saw the world as too "established" to change; people don't like new things. If you overcook an egg, you don't fix it; you START OVER. Let everyone be free and experience the world for themselves; face changes and challenges, and let them adapt to it and evolve; let them learn tough lessons and move on from then; let them create their own reality; interact with things and understand them. What Zaheer wanted wasn't true anarchy: As he said before, he wanted to create a world were a man can be with himself, and the people he/she loves, and a world of chaos provides that. He wanted to free Vaatu and bring back the spirits so mankind and spirits will interact, hopefully learn from one another in the chaos, and bring forth a new world. But the thing about chaos and freedom is that what happens if you want to free something that does not want to be freed?

      Kuvira is the exact opposite of zaheer: abosolute order. In chaos, you create your own reality: You observe and learn from things around you and your experiences, and you determine your own reality. In order, you are told what is reality, and you are to accept it, even if it isn't true. This is CLEARLY shown by Kuvira and Bolin. She is also a surpremacist, so the definition of inequality. As with the Fire Nation, I hate HER, but not the people (even though they're being used as the tools to commit the crimes), because us ourselves are just like them: For example, we love each other, our own kind, but how do we treat animals? Instead of helping them or living with them, we... you get the idea. The way she was willing to kill Varrick for disobeying is like treating her Empire as a machine: If a part is broken or slow, or not listening to you, get rid of it. Or how she throws anyone who does not pledge their loyalty to her into prison: She sees change, variety, differences, individuality, chaos, as a virus that must be terminated, or a broken gear; otherwise, the entire system falls apart. That brings up the whole logic (order) vs emotion (chaos) debate, where, for example, in the game of chess, you would do anything to win: strategy, sacrificing, anything to get advantage; but what happens if the pieces are lives instead? What would you do? Anyway, long story short, order is BAD.

      The Avatar needs to be something like "all of the above." Although there will always be inequality, the gap should not be too big and people should work together, not bring each other down. Traditions and the old ways of things should be respected and not be forgotten, I guess... And finally, there should be a balance between chaos (change) and order (stability) -- kinda like how music requires variety of sounds and notes, but it also needs a beat.

      All in all, for ideaologies (personally): Zaheer > Amon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unalaq = Kuvira.

        Loading editor
    • I say Zaheer

        Loading editor
    • Hundun. Haha, in all seriousness Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira > Unalaq. Although, I feel that we still do not know of Kuvira's true capabilities. She may be able to metalbend something that shoots spirit vine lasers or something crazy like that.

        Loading editor
    • Amon's bending prowess is so overrated its not even funny. He can't even bloodbend a moving Korra at 20ish meters letting her firebend for a long 3 seconds to run for cover. Even his father Yakone(who is way more powerful than Amon) even when seeing a moving towards his carriage was unable to bloodbend him(this is obvious because Yakone spotted him for a long 5 seconds and long enough for Aang to do a charged attack). Only when Aang was stationary could Yakone bend him.

      It would depend of the battlespace. If it is a controlled enviorment like a bending arena or room where both stand close range and the judge yells start, Amon would win. If it is a large open field where the commandants engage at long distances and close in on eachother, Flying Zaheer and Unalaq would win do to their sheer speeds and range of engagements. 

      Unalaq is so underrated. With enough water he can almost fly. And this is without Dark Avatar State.

      If battle is a ring with minimal water=Amon>Zaheer>Kuvira>Unalaq

      If battle is uncontrolled long range field like Wulong forest(with little water)=Zaheer>Kuvira>(Amon=Unalaq?)

      If battlespace has plenty of water like NWT=Zaheer>Unalaq>Amon>Kuvira

        Loading editor
    • Amon's bending prowess is so overrated its not even funny. He can't even bloodbend a moving Korra at 20ish meters letting her firebend for a long 3 seconds to run for cover. Even his father Yakone(who is way more powerful than Amon) even when seeing a moving towards his carriage was unable to bloodbend him(this is obvious because Yakone spotted him for a long 5 seconds and long enough for Aang to do a charged attack). Only when Aang was stationary could Yakone bend him.

      He bloodbent both Mako and Korra at the same time and lolpwned them. The second time, he only was caught off guard because Korra magically learned to airbend when he thought she was unable to bend at all. Even then, she didn't even beat him, he fled because he was exposed. Barring that final confrontation, Amon always had the upperhand against her the entire season. Even when she escaped, he didn't even seem to care, because he knew she wasn't a threat to him and it was only a matter of time before he took her out. He was playing cat and mouse with her.

      Yes, Yakone was more powerful than Amon...evidenced by a like 12 year old Amon wrecking him casually.

      It would depend of the battlespace. If it is a controlled enviorment like a bending arena or room where both stand close range and the judge yells start, Amon would win. If it is a large open field where the commandants engage at long distances and close in on eachother, Flying Zaheer and Unalaq would win do to their sheer speeds and range of engagements. 

      Like how Amon easily sidestepped like everyone who attacked him in season one's bending? Lightning Bolt Zolt shot lightning at him and Amon breezed by it, no problem. Dodging at mid/close range is more impressive than doing it long range. Zaheer might be able to stay out of range of Amon and escape, but if he's going to try and fight Amon, Amon will wreck him.

      We've also clearly seen Amon able to waterbend in general with very good range with his water spout he used to escape Republic City. It was easily 30 feet high and when he started moving, he was jetting and handily outrunning Mako's fireballs.

      Unalaq is so underrated. With enough water he can almost fly. And this is without Dark Avatar State.

      Tonraq was able to duel Unalaq and pressed him. Zaheer beat Tonraq and Korra (albeit she was chained) and this was before he could fly.

      Amon could reasonably match Unalaq on conventional waterbending and can bloodbend. Just Unalaq, Amon crushes.

      Dark Avatar (which wasn't part of the discussion, but w/e's), hard to say. We don't know if Unalaq/Vaatu Dark Avatar State could break the bloodbending like Avatar/Raava could in the Avatar State. If yes, Amon probably loses, as Unalaq is already a good waterbender, but he gets a power up and counters Amon's special move.

        Loading editor
    • Amon bloodbend Mako and Korra in a closed confined room. Look at the hallway. Amon saw Mako and Korra and had to chase them giving Korra 3 seconds to create Firewall. That means Amon has a tough time attacking opponents at those distances.

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/112/0713.jpg

      Yakone is more powerful than Amon. He bloodbent entire room of people spread out, an Avatar at prime and the greatest Earthbender in the world with the blink of an eye HANDCUFFED. Amon beat Yakone? Wow. Just wow. You do realize he didn't have his bending at that time?

      Now look at this picture. Aang simply moving at high speeds makes him hard to bloodbend until he was actually stationary. Yakone saw him 5 seconds and did nothing allowing Aang to do airslice. Compare to the Courtroom, in less than a second he bloodbent everyone and had instant reflexes to react to Toph. 

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/109/1368.jpg

      Am I saying you can't bloodbend a moving target? No. Amon clearly bloodbent wolves and a running Mako. But against targets those speeds? No. Even the mighty Yakone cannot. And Zaheer can engage at incredible distances throwing Korra far far away.

      http://dongbufeng.net/media/gallery/albums/k313/313-1118.png

      http://dongbufeng.net/media/gallery/albums/k313/313-1121.png

      http://dongbufeng.net/media/gallery/albums/k313/313-1133.png  


      Amon is fast? Compared to the speeds of Zaheer and Unalaq no. Zaheer and Unalaq are super fast covering the battlespace in less than a second. While Amon you can actually see him moving through water in a fairly processable speed. Zaheer can launch air whips at incredible speeds and range. Amon didn't dodge Zolt, he bloodbent him into missing at a fairly close range compared to the range Zaheer engages.

      The range of bloodbending is equalivalent to how far you can do a watersprout. Its equivalent to range grip. For example if you are an Earthbender and you are 100 meters away...can you sink automatically sink the opponent's earth below their feet?

      Amon destroys a non-flight Zaheer easily. But with flight...no. Unalaq is just too fast for Amon. He chased Korra while she was in AS and he was not. Unalaq was not in Dark Avatar State since his eyes were not glowing at the time.

      Vaatu is way stronger than Raava lol.(well at that time) Raava is a feeble tiny spirit.

        Loading editor
    • Power wise? Amon and Zaheer I guess would be tied. I am considering Unalaq as he was before he became UnaVaatu. And Kuvira is an obviously phenomenal bender, but I wouldn't put her on the same level as Amon and Zaheer, who were both a bit overpowered in my opinion.

      In terms of personality I would go with either Zaheer or Kuvira. All the villians has their own levels of insanity. Which made perfect sense, most people in history who have tried to conquer and destroy so completely like these guys had a degree of insanity. But I find Zaheer and Kuvira more...believable.

      With that being said, Im curious to see what Kuvira's "special power which presents itself in the final battle" is. Ozai had the comet. Amon...well he stayed fairly consistent with being overpowered didn't he? But Unalaq had Vaatu and being Dark Avatar, Zaheer had flying, so I wonder what will go with Kuvira.

        Loading editor
    • Don't underestimate Unalaq. His watersprouts are such incredible speeds covering the entire military compound in a matter of seconds(while he's just a dot on the screen). He was not in Avatar State while Korra was. In fact most of that battle Unalaq was not even in Avatar State(eyes not glowing)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccltjD-24a4

      Zaheer is pretty weak when not flying compared to Tenzin. But when he got flying he was near invincible. When the camera was not moving, you can barely even process his speed. Even screenshot his body is so fast its hard to take a picture. You can barely see the guy.

      ]http://dongbufeng.net/media/gallery/albums/k313/313-1141.png

        Loading editor
    • I'm not really familiar with Kuvira yet,so I'm gonna wait until Book 4 ends and then I'm gonna tell you my opinion.

      Without Kuvira -----> Amon>Zaheer>Unalaq or Amon>UnaVatuu>Zaheer

        Loading editor
    • Amon bloodbend Mako and Korra in a closed confined room. Look at the hallway. Amon saw Mako and Korra and had to chase them giving Korra 3 seconds to create Firewall. That means Amon has a tough time attacking opponents at those distances.

      No, it doesn't.

      The "confined room" was a fairly large storage room. And later he bent Mako from a farther distance than they were ahead of him here.

      Yakone is more powerful than Amon. He bloodbent entire room of people spread out, an Avatar at prime and the greatest Earthbender in the world with the blink of an eye. Amon beat Yakone? Wow. Just wow. You do realize he didn't have his bending at that time?


      Now look at this picture. Aang simply moving at high speeds makes him hard to bloodbend until he was actually stationary. Yakone saw him 5 seconds and did nothing allowing Aang to do airslice. Compare to the Courtroom, in less than a second he bloodbent everyone and had instant reflexes to react to Toph.

      True, I forgot about that and I was wrong (Yakone was not a bender anymore at this point). But, pretty much everything else still stands.

      Amon doesn't have a feat of controlling an entire room of people. But we don't know that he can't. We've seen him easily control multiple wolves at a high level of control and impressing Yakone as a child.

      Tarlaq bloodbent about ten people at once with at least five powerful benders among them, at least two of which were actively attacking him prior to his bloodbending them (when he was exposed as a bloodbender by the aide). Amon casually breaks Tarlaq's attempt to bloodbend him, barely even slowing the pace of his footsteps for a moment. So, Amon is pretty reasonably the more powerful bloodbender, particularly given Tarlaq's exposition to Korra on the matter.

      Aang surprised Yakone when chasing him and blasted his carrage. When Yakone got up, he went to bloodbend him. While it was a couple of seconds on screen, it's not clear if this was literal time or just showing us parallel time. (Was Aang preparing the wind blast when Yakone was gasping? Or was it sequential?)

      Mako is running (albeit with Korra in tow) and at least 30 feet ahead of Amon and Amon picks him up and throws him around easily.

      We also have Amon's second in command (who is pretty fast) charging him and Amon bloodbends him without issue.

      Amon is fast? Compared to the speeds of Zaheer and Unalaq no. Zaheer and Unalaq are super fast covering the battlespace in less than a second. Zaheer can launch air whips at incredible speeds and range.

      Yeah, he easily outran Mako firing at him by waterbending through the bay to get away. By no means is Amon, slow. He's physically agile and quick (enough so to dodge lightning with his back turned), while being able to move very quickly via water. I'm not saying he has a speed advantage, but he's not at any noticeable disadvantage in speed. Zaheer can fly which gives him a different level of maneuverability, but short of some hard speed calcs, looking at the screen neither is clearly faster.

      The range of bloodbending is equalivalent to how far you can do a watersprout. Its equivalent to range grip. For example if you are an Earthbender and you are 100 meters away...can you sink automatically sink the opponent's earth below their feet?

      I didn't necessarily say what his bloodbending range is there. But he's clearly able to bend water from over 4 stories away as seen with his water spout. And can bloodbend at least 30 feet away. If Yakone, his father and trainer, is any indicator, Amon probably can go even further than that. On top of that, Amon surpassed him in that he further developed the bloodbending to include permanently cutting off one's bending. He may very well be more powerful than Yakone ever was.

      Amon destroys a non-flight Zaheer easily. But with flight...no. Unalaq is just too fast for Amon. He chased Korra while she was in AS and he was not. 

      Why? We have no hard evidence suggesting that someone moving quickly can't be bloodbent. Just that it hasn't extensively been shown. And this isn't even taking into account Amon can waterbend and use conventional waterbending to fight too.

      "...and he was not"...what?

      In the Avatar state?

        Loading editor
    • You do realize that hallway was farther and Zaheer can engage target even farther? The room was like barely 10 meters apart.

      Compare the distances

      Cannot bloodbend

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/112/0713.jpg

      Can bloodbend

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/112/0827.jpg

      Can bloodbend

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/112/1997.jpg


      Tarrlok bloodbent a room of people bundled up. Its way easier to bloodbend a group of people huddled up than spread out. Its easier to bloodbend a bunch of water in front of you compared to around you. Yakone is stronger than Amon.

      Aang surprised Yakone? Yeah. He did. But Yakone waited literaly 5 seconds for the charged blast attack. Look at the screen carefully. Aang was no doing the the arm movements when Yakone gasps. Either way Yakone is known for super reflexes where he can bloodbend people instantly in less than a second.

      This is during the gasp.

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/109/1369.jpg

      Is Mako's running faster than Zaheer flight and Aang scooter? No.

      Speed calcs? Are you blind? Watch the episodes again. Zaheer is a dot on the screen and zipped across the screen in a instant. Its like trying to metalbend a bullet.

      Look a these pictures.

      Amon crosses screen(a huge dot in the water) around 3-4 seconds.

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/112/2339.jpg

      Zaheer crosses screen in less than a second.(he's a smaller dot btw)

      http://dongbufeng.net/media/gallery/albums/k313/313-1141.png

      Gee I wonder who's faster?

      30 feet? That is 10 meters. A joke. The US House of Reprenstatives meeting room is 20 meters wide and Yakone can probably bloodbend that all. Zaheer's air whips are beyond 100 meters. 

      http://hdscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/korra/313/0559.jpg

      "Taking away bending" ISN'T A MARTIAL ABILITY. You cannot take away people's beding while engaged in combat until you subdued the opponent. Its like saying S1 Katara is superior to Pakku because she can heal with water. No that is no reason Amon is more poweful than Yakone.

      Yes there is proof. Yakone who can bloodbend people in a split second with his mind, cannot bloodbend a fast moving Aang in 5 seconds. And even if Zaheer can bent, his range of engagement is just far to great.

      Yep. Unalaq was not in Avatar State and Korra was and Unalaq still chased up.

        Loading editor
    • You do realize that hallway was farther and Zaheer can engage target even farther? The room was like barely 10 meters apart.

      Compare the distances

      You have no idea if he can't bloodbend those distances or not. Only that he didn't do it.

      Tarrlok bloodbent a room of people bundled up. Its way easier to bloodbend a group of people huddled up than spread out. Its easier to bloodbend a bunch of water in front of you compared to around you. Yakone is stronger than Amon.

      And you know any of this...how?

      Aang surprised Yakone? Yeah. He did. But Yakone waited literaly 5 seconds for the charged blast attack. And Yakone is a pshcic bloodbender and can bloodbend INSTANTLY. Is Mako's running faster than Zaheer flight and Aang scooter? No.

      As I mentioned, that could have been parallel time, which means, Aang may have been winding up for the attack as Yakone gasped. In shots like that, it is hard to tell if it is straight time or parallel time. Either way, he could have bent Aang while he was laying in the cart out of sight, but he didn't, he got up, faced Aang, then did it. Does that mean he can't bend someone he doesn't have sight on? No. Does not bloodbending someone because they're moving mean he can't? No.

      You are making up this notion that bloodbenders can't bloodbend moving targets, well, you haven't established this is even a thing. And we've got someone in a full sprint getting bloodbent casually. Maybe Amon could have bloodbent someone faster, just nobody faster ever fought him. So he never had the occasion to have to do it.

      Speed calcs? Are you blind? Watch the episodes again. Zaheer is a dot on the screen and zipped across the screen in a instant. Its like trying to metalbend a bullet.

      Look a these pictures.

      Yes, speed calcs, so you can actually objectively substantiate your claim. (Or not.)

      Also, most of your links don't seem to work. The one that does is just a picture of a rock formation.

      30 feet? That is 10 meters. A joke. The US Supreme court is 20 meters wide and Yakone can probably bloodbend that all. Zaheer's air whips are beyond 100 meters. 

      I said at least, but w/e, he very well may be able to bend further. Since Amon was most likely a better bender than his father, improving the art even more, he probably could do what his old man did. And then some.

      Amon's reflexive waterspout was around that, and he did that on instinct. If he has the water, there's no reason to believe Zaheer outranges him out of hand.

      "Taking away bending" ISN'T A MARTIAL ABILITY. You cannot take away people's beding while engaged in combat until you subdued the opponent. Its like saying S1 Katara is superior to Pakku because she can heal with water. No that is no reason Amon is more poweful than Yakone.

      Except, he used it as such. He used it on Korra while actively holding two people with his bloodbending.

      The point being that Amon further improved upon what he was taught by Yakone. With ability that even Yakone didn't have.

      Of course, Pakku wasn't teaching Katara everything he knew for years, like Yakone was for Amon.

      Yes there is proof. Yakone who can bloodbend people in a split second with his mind, cannot bloodbend a fast moving Aang in 5 seconds.

      He didn't bloodbend him there. That does not mean he couldn't have.

      And even if Zaheer can bent, his range of engagement is just far to great.

      In what sense? Amon can bend water great distances too. If you mean Zaheer has high mobility with his ability to fly around and is not earthbound in the way everyone else is, sure, Amon doesn't have that. But, If Zaheer needs to fight him from a distance, Amon can dodge and fire water at him too.

      Yep. Unalaq was not in Avatar State and Korra was and Unalaq still chased up.

      So, probably around the same speed.

        Loading editor
    • You have no idea if he can't bloodbend those distances or not. Only that he didn't do it.

      Hmm why can't Earthbenders just bend the earth under their opponent? The range. Why can't Amon instantly grab Mako and Korra when they bumped in the hallway?

      And you know any of this...how?

      Common sense in watching this show. What do you think is easier. Grabbing a lot of water spread out behind, on the side of your body, or grabbing water directly in front of you in a big blob?

      As I mentioned, that could have been parallel time, which means, Aang may have been winding up for the attack as Yakone gasped. In shots like that, it is hard to tell if it is straight time or parallel time. Either way, he could have bent Aang while he was laying in the cart out of sight, but he didn't, he got up, faced Aang, then did it. Does that mean he can't bend someone he doesn't have sight on? No. Does not bloodbending someone because they're moving mean he can't? No.

      You are making up this notion that bloodbenders can't bloodbend moving targets, well, you haven't established this is even a thing. And we've got someone in a full sprint getting bloodbent casually. Maybe Amon could have bloodbent someone faster, just nobody faster ever fought him. So he never had the occasion to have to do it.

      Parrelel time? How? The screen doesn't cut it moves to Aang on scooter right above not charging attack yet...THEN zooms in. 

      When did I  EVER say you cannot bloodbend moving target? Um do you even know how fast air scooters and flight is compared to full sprint?

      Yes, speed calcs, so you can actually objectively substantiate your claim. (Or not.)

      Also, most of your links don't seem to work. The one that does is just a picture of a rock formation.

      Rock formation? Get glasses before debating with me. You see Zaheer's body flying right of the loopy rock and the pointed rock. See Zaheer is so fast even you can't see.

      http://dongbufeng.net/media/gallery/albums/k313/313-1141.png



      Waterbending travels slower than Airbending. It usually needs flowing waterwhips to range opponent. Unalaq for example when engaging at distance needed slow moving waterwhips. Either way, in a long range duel the one is is faster wins. 

      He didn't bloodbend him there. That does not mean he couldn't have.

      Yeah he planned to get his cart turned over by Aang:)

      Except, he used it as such. He used it on Korra while actively holding two people with his bloodbending.

      So what? Taking a person's bending isn't a combat ablity. 

        Loading editor
    • Um, if Unalaq fused with Vaatu isn't being considered here, then Amon stomps. There's nothing that any of the three have that'll stop his bloodbending. I don't understand why people are writing paragraphs upon paragraphs on who would win between these four. Everybody not named Amon gets bloodbended and most likely their bending taken as well. It's as simple as that. 

        Loading editor
    • No Unavatus aloud.

        Loading editor
    • What about Unalaq's use of dark spirits? I think that gives him a pretty good advantage ...

        Loading editor
    • Hmm why can't Earthbenders just bend the earth under their opponent? The range. Why can't Amon instantly grab Mako and Korra when they bumped in the hallway?

      They sometimes do.

      You've not established that he can't, only that he didn't. Also, this was directly as he was leaving the auditorium, maybe he didn't want to be seen bloodbending and so he held off until he was in a more secluded location. But anyways, he does grab Mako in the hallway later and from a comparable distance anyways. 

      Common sense in watching this show. What do you think is easier. Grabbing a lot of water spread out behind, on the side of your body, or grabbing water directly in front of you in a big blob?

      I wouldn't know, since I'm not a waterbender. We do see that Yakone bloodbent multiple people all over the courtroom, easily, so it is clearly possible and it didn't seem to be any more difficult for him to do that than bloodbend anyone else.

      Also, bloodbending was stated to be a fairly complex art, controlling the water in a body is very fine control, not really seeing how it's the same as grabbing a glob of water, unless that is also a very fine tuned art.

      Parrelel time? How? The screen doesn't cut it moves to Aang on scooter right above not charging attack yet...THEN zooms in. 


      When did I  EVER say you cannot bloodbend moving target? Um do you even know how fast air scooters and flight is compared to full sprint?

      It moves to Aang, the cuts and shows the hand motions for the bending, then the air wave.

      Also, their relative speed was the same at the time. So, sprinting at a stationary target, would be relatively more speed difference than two moving quickly but at about the same speed.

      But again, while he didn't bend him here, it's not proof that he couldn't.

      Rock formation? Get glasses before debating with me. You see Zaheer's body flying right of the loopy rock and the pointed rock. See Zaheer is so fast even you can't see.

      The static image you linked (maybe your link isn't working, as I mentioned, others weren't either) doesn't show any movement. Not really fair to blame me for your bad link.

      Zaheer certainly is quick, but Korra was able to keep up and even overtake him with firebending jetpropulsion and earthbending rock pillar assisted jumps.

      'Waterbending travels slower than Airbending. It usually needs flowing waterwhips to range opponent. Unalaq for example when engaging at distance needed slow moving waterwhips. Either way, in a long range duel the one is is faster wins. '

      Waterbending has shown waterwhips, watertorrents, ice shard machine guns, etc. There are many waterbending options that are long range and quick. Really hard to verify that one is definitively faster than the other, across the board. Like you wanted to talk about how Amon's family's skills were all over the place and wildly different effectiveness, how can you just say airbending is faster than waterbending? The effectiveness of the bending largely depends upon the bender.

      Unalaq didn't need to use waterwhips, he could have used a number of different water attacks.

      Speed is a great trait to have, but being faster won't always win. Just like being stronger or smarter won't either.

      Yeah he planned to get his cart turned over by Aang:)

      Or he got hit before he knew how to react. :)

      So what? Taking a person's bending isn't a combat ablity. 

      I just illustrated how it was used while he was actively fighting two people and took one of them out of the fight for awhile, until deus ex machina granted her airbending. It's like you saying snapping someone's neck from a ground hold isn't a combat ability, because you need them under your control to do that move.

      If he removed Zaheer's bending, Zaheer can't use airbending against him anymore. He could also kill him, yes, but he's got options.

      Anyways, the point was that he furthered the training that Yakone gave him.

        Loading editor
    • Dragonboy6491 wrote:
      What about Unalaq's use of dark spirits? I think that gives him a pretty good advantage ...

      Is outside help allowed? And even if so, he probably still dies while dark spirits just annoy the big kids.

        Loading editor
    • Hmmm, not sure if it's allowed, but a lot of Unalaq's strength stems from his spirituality. If we're not allowed to consider UnaVaatu (fair enough, there'd be no contest), we should at least consider his use of Dark spirits.

      And if I was preoccupied with Dark spirits, I don't see myself killing the guy who's making them attack me anytime soon ... just saying.

        Loading editor
    • Unalaq was a very powerful bender, no contest. But Amon was friggin psychic O_o. In any case, I have a question:

      Does anyone else find it odd how quickly Zaheer mastered airbending? He gave Tenzin a good fight. I know Zaheer was deeply engrossed in Airbending philosophy and very spiritual...but I still found it strange.

        Loading editor
    • Well Zaheer was a skilled martial arts practitioner. Since all bending is based off martial art styles, it's not inconceivable that Zaheer developed quite quickly into a master. That being said, it was a little odd.

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer was also obsessed with Air Nomad culture with his constant ramblings of Guru Laghima. I wonder if (being the spiritual person that he is) Zaheer new that Harmonic Convergence was coming and would bestow him with airbendng, so he may have practiced or something.

        Loading editor
    • Amon should get his Equalists and Kuvira should get her army, because it was their leadership skills that got them those.

        Loading editor
    • What we include I think depends on how we're using the words best and better in this discussion. If it's better bender then I don't think we should include outside help, unless they bent that outside help. If it's who is the most powerful, then perhaps, since leadership skills and followers are included in power.

        Loading editor
    • Define best.

      If we're talking about best bender: Amon > Zaheer > Unalaq = Kuvira

      If we're talking about best character: Zaheer > Amon >>>> Kuvira > Unalaq

      Just my opinion, of course.

        Loading editor
    • Bender, or character-wise?

        Loading editor
    • Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      Define best.

      If we're talking about best bender: Amon > Zaheer > Unalaq = Kuvira

      If we're talking about best character: Zaheer > Amon >>>> Kuvira > Unalaq

      Just my opinion, of course.

      I agree with this character-wise.

      For benders I say.... Amon >> Kuvira > Zaheer > Unalaq

        Loading editor
    • Lunacyde wrote:
      Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      Define best.

      If we're talking about best bender: Amon > Zaheer > Unalaq = Kuvira

      If we're talking about best character: Zaheer > Amon >>>> Kuvira > Unalaq

      Just my opinion, of course.

      I agree with this character-wise.

      For benders I say.... Amon >> Kuvira > Zaheer > Unalaq

      I can't understand why Kuvira is better bender than Zaheer who learn an ability milenar without a master to teach him.

        Loading editor
    • Airbender Master wrote:
      Lunacyde wrote:
      Peluso Mesquita wrote:
      Define best.

      If we're talking about best bender: Amon > Zaheer > Unalaq = Kuvira

      If we're talking about best character: Zaheer > Amon >>>> Kuvira > Unalaq

      Just my opinion, of course.

      I agree with this character-wise.

      For benders I say.... Amon >> Kuvira > Zaheer > Unalaq

      I can't understand why Kuvira is better bender than Zaheer who learn an ability milenar without a master to teach him.

      if you took Book 3 (Pre-Flying) Zaheer and matched him up against Book 4 Kuvira I think she should win that match in a hard fought battle.

      If we look at Zaheer's fights in Book 3 he has had trouble with master benders, all less skilled than Kuvira appears. He had his trouble with Kya, got schooled by Tenzin, and fought Korra in chains. His fights with fodder were less impressive than Kuvira's. I love Zaheer but it was his other abilities, not particularly his straight bending that made him a great villain. That's not to say he wasn't a damn good bender.

        Loading editor
    • A dirt arena. A lake in the middle. There stands, in order, Amon across from the Red Lotus(RL), 40 feet away. Kuvira stands apart, on the other aide of the oval from Unalaq. Then the match starts. Unalaq starts for the water, but is blown up by PLi. Kuvira launches a razor shaprp band at Pli, blowing her head off. Zaheer angrily orders the other two to attack Kuvira. Ming Hua goes for the water supply but its cut down by Kuviras razor sharp bands before she can reach the lake. Gazhan earthbends a wall and advances behind it. Zaheer takes off on his glider. Kuvira can't hit him but she hits his glider. Causing him to fall. Gazhan has reached Kuvira, and the two start fighting. Gazhan, angry, lavabends a 10 foot radius beneath Kuvira. She dies in agony. But behind Gazhan, Amon comes, blood bending and killing Gazhan. Zaheer comes and tries to attack Amon. Amon easily bloodbends him and kills him too, and walks away like nothing had happened.

      Amon>RL>Kuvira>Unalaq

        Loading editor
    • With Zaheer alone, it would be(with same setup except for no other RL members):

      Unalaq runs for the water source, gets cut down by Kuvira. Zaheer takes to the air, taking Kuviras attention. Kuvira hits his glider, knocking him down. She is about to kill him when Amon comes and kills her w\bloodbending. He kills Zaheer when he tries to attack. Amon wins again.

      Still:

      Amon>Zaheer>Kuvira>Unalaq

        Loading editor
    • This is before Zaheer learned to fly. Whoops I forgot that. Sorry.

        Loading editor
    • I always imagined them fighting 1v1 in a tournament style. 

      Nevertheless, since all of these villains is quite clever, I don't think that anyone of them would be that quick to rush right into the middle of the battle, instead I think that all of them would be quiet passive, at least in the beginning (especially if we assume that they have never met before and doesn't know each others abilities). I also think that you underestimate Unalaq, because I actually think that he can reach the water from his starting position and acquire it fast enough to at least put up a fight. Moreover, if Gazhan used lava to kill Kuvira I don't think it would be agonizing, instead I think that she would explode, because the fluids in her body would vaporize (unless the lava is very cold) which would give her a quick death . However despite all of these notes, I still agree with you that Amon would win.

        Loading editor
    • Sorry, I made those comments,while  I was making them off the top of my head and wasn't thinking to hard-just visualizing a scene where they fought. Kuvira or Pli could easily still pick off people early. I don't like Unalaq so he got the bad end of the stick. Also, he would be easier to hit by Pli or Kuvira than both Amon, Zaheer or Kuvira-best target. He would be the first to go. Sorry about the lavabending- I didn't think it through, I just thought it would be agonizing, but not slow. Maybe agonizing for the couple of seconds before she dies(man, it would be excruciatingly painful). Go Amon!

        Loading editor
    • No need to say you are sorry, we are just having an argumentation, to try to come up with an idea on how the battle could play out, and if you ask me I would say, that the meaning of an argumentation is to jointly decide something by giving arguments and dismissing counter arguments, that way, the decision will be very logical and combine the thoughts and experiences from different people. This is good, since one person cannot know everything by him/herself, and therefore they need the thoughts of someone else to make a better decision. So what I am trying to say is, that this is a discussion, and you don't need to say your are sorry, because of your opinion, and your are free to change your opinion whenever you want. 

      Yes, I kind of managed to mix up agony with slow death, so she could still die in agony, but the agony wouldn't last for very long (which is fortunate for Kuvira) . 

      Go Amon, equalize them!

        Loading editor
    • I'm sorry... (Just kidding, that was a joke).

      Anyway, thank you. And yes, Go Amon, Equalize them! Ha!


      Also, a really terrible joke: what do you call it if you have 4 followers of Amon on one side and 4 on the other and they are constantly switching sides but keeping the same numbers?

      A dynamic EQUALbrium!

      That was a really bad joke.

        Loading editor
    • Unalaq fused with vaatu is the strongest but here's the interesting part - Most people say Amon would win simply because of blood bending, though it is a very powerful skill it's grib can be broken without the avatar state. Pli could easily defeat Amon at long range with combustion without him being able to use his blood bending. Also zaheer became untethered so I'm guessing his veins are filled with spirit energy not blood because it weighs more than air so blood bending might be useless against zaheer.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14
      Thebridge14 removed this reply because:
      Repeat
      03:26, December 4, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Thebridge14 wrote: Unalaq fused with vaatu is the strongest but here's the interesting part - Most people say Amon would win simply because of blood bending, though it is a very powerful skill it's grib can be broken without the avatar state. Pli could easily defeat Amon at long range with combustion without him being able to use his blood bending. Also zaheer became untethered so I'm guessing his veins are filled with spirit energy not blood because it weighs more than air so blood bending might be useless against Zaheer


      He was attacked while he had some in his grip and he wasn't concerned with them, but we've only seen bloodbending outright resisted by other, more powerful bloodbenders or the Avatar State Avatar. Amon is incredibly agile and was able to evade lightning with his back turned, if she can be dodged by Korra and co, Amon reasonably can too. Amon can also fight at range with conventional waterbending.

      lmao about Zaheer not having blood anymore.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Unalaq fused with vaatu is the strongest but here's the interesting part - Most people say Amon would win simply because of blood bending, though it is a very powerful skill it's grib can be broken without the avatar state. Pli could easily defeat Amon at long range with combustion without him being able to use his blood bending. Also zaheer became untethered so I'm guessing his veins are filled with spirit energy not blood because it weighs more than air so blood bending might be useless against zaheer.

      Good points. However, several things to note.

      True, PLi could pick off Amon, yes, but Amon is a lot more agile and nimble than Unalq, and he's not rushing straight into battle(in my scenario above) like Unalaq. Also, I do admit, I like him better than the others. Amon probably couldn't doge too many of the bands from Kuvira. Still, I thought in my scenario, her attention would be with the Red Lotus(or Zaheer in the second). Still a very interesting point.

      Where did you get the last sentence from? Its an interesting idea, I've never heard it, it sounds weird to me, but hey, what I say probably sound weird too to other people. Please tell me more about it please. I have never thought about it before. I still think that he has blood after he learned to fly. Also, the scenarios are before he learned to fly (my fault, which I mention after) so he's on his glider in them.

      Thank you for your comments, they are very interesting!

        Loading editor
    • Mako resisted it when he lightning bent at Amon also korra resisted under her own power when she was his main focus point. I'm not sold on Amon I want to see him face a true bending master like iroh toph or katara because I like the concept of being able to break blood bending with your own determination other wise the skill is broken and ruins the theme that the four elements are balanced and equal

        Loading editor
    • Mako bent while locked, out of his finger without really moving until the burst hit Amon, and this was with Amon not taking him seriously. Korra was being bent, but airbent out of her legs, which did not seem to be bent by him, as she was moving her legs around as he seemingly was more concerned with her upper body, again, not really taking her seriously.

      Katara could potentially resist the bending, being a powerful waterbender herself (and she did this with Hama). Though, he seems more adept than she ever was at bloodbending. Still, I think that would be a noteworthy possibility.

      The skill is broken. That's kinda the point.

      Their balance probably isn't founded around how effective they are at fighting human opponents.

        Loading editor
    • I'm pretty sure Amon took them both seriously because his line about I'm impressed no own has ever gotten the better of me like that would be pointless if he had his guard down, anyway just my two cense.

        Loading editor
    • And what do you think impressed him about Mako? Amon didn't think Mako could do anything, but Mako figured a way to launch a desperation attack while he was mostly unable to move. Amon wasn't taking him seriously and so that happened. He could have been throwing Mako around the room while twisting him like a pretzel and Mako could never have fired the lightning bolt, his opportunity was only because Amon just wasn't treating him like a threat. Amon wasn't too concerned with him, even toying with/treating him in a casual manner after that.

      Now, Amon's hubris could arguably be a weakness of his in this battle royale, he might not take the other benders seriously and end up getting rocked because of it. But if he's not screwing around, he's very powerful and intelligent. Bear in mind, Amon was not defeated. He was merely thrown out of a window and still in great shape seconds after he hit the water.

        Loading editor
    • Amon is not faster than Unalaq. Unalaq moves across NWT base in seconds with watersprout. Amon in water moves much slower. You can tell by comparing the size of the screen imagary and the speed they move.

      And I conclude bloodbending cannot grip people that are moving in high speeds like airscooters or flight effectively as shown by Aang and Yakone. Yakone spend 5 seconds in his cart letting Aang do a charged air attack. Parrallel time? No proof. Usually parrallel time is cut screen not panning screen. For example Kuvira's bands gripping people instantly is shown to have at least 2 seconds to hit. But it cuts to parrelel time of bandits movements to show better. When it zooms on 1 plane its is very fast.

        Loading editor
    • With bending, in/around water, they're probably around the same speed. With that pretty panned out shot, Amon was moving a large distance relatively quickly. Unalaq has no feats that are head and shoulders above that. Physical agility? Maybe they're close, but Amon clearly has the feats to back up alot of speed.

      And your conclusion about the movement limitation on bloodbending is just speculation. As explained there were cuts in that sequence with Aang and Yakone.

      As for Kuvira's bands, sure, they take time to travel. They're a projectile attack. However when we see her grip metal around a collar from their uniform, it's instantaneous.

      Bottom line is you've not established that bloodbending cannot be used on someone moving quickly. We have it used on someone who is very fast, charging Amon and easily getting bloodbent. We also have it used on someone running and at a moderate distance. You're using one example of a bloodbender visibly surprised by someone getting the drop on him and he doesn't use bloodbending prior to their attack as a basis for bloodbenders not being able to bend fast moving targets in general.

        Loading editor
    • No Amon is slower than Unalaq. Just watch the watersprout the Unalaq made and compare to speeds of Amon's traveling through water.

      Your conclusion on parralel time is speculative as well. If it was 1 second surprise then yes. But Yakone waited 5 seconds.

      We don't know if it is instantaneous. In close proximity with Varick is was. But with bandits it took some time. We don't know if its parrel time or not but it was cut screen. Not panning screen like the Aang situation.

      A human running<a cart<an air scooter<flight. You just can't compare speeds and say "they are fast moving equally"

      Another scenario is when Tenzin family and Korra and Mako was escaping from Amon. Amon opened door.in hallway and had to chase after. The bloodbending wasn't instantaneous. Why chase when he could just instantly incapacitate before Korra even firebent?

        Loading editor
    • No Amon is slower than Unalaq. Just watch the watersprout the Unalaq made and compare to speeds of Amon's traveling through water.

      You do realize that Amon's panned out quite a bit as he moves, covering alot of distance, right? From that perspective it looks slower than it really is. Like looking at an airplane in the sky, it looks like its moving slow, even though it's going over 500 mph.

      Your conclusion on parralel time is speculative as well. If it was 1 second surprise then yes. But Yakone waited 5 seconds.

      I made it pretty clear that parallel time is one possible explanation and it does have two cuts in animation between his circling above the cart and striking the reins with an airblast, you're the one that needs to establish that it was impossible for Yakone to bend Aang there and that you have not done.


      We don't know if it is instantaneous. In close proximity with Varick is was. But with bandits it took some time. We don't know if its parrel time or not but it was cut screen. Not panning screen like the Aang situation.

      We have on screen proof that Kuvira's collar grab was instantaneous. That's not debatable.

      The bandits she was flinging metal pieces at them and then grabbing them, those are two different circumstances. The bandits being missile speed, Varricks being folding the metal on location which takes less than half a second. Kuvira vs bandits the parallel time could be showing her do the forms as they are rushing down the hills toward her. From her flinging the metal to hitting a bandit is reasonably 1-2 seconds of travel time.

      Aang and Yakone's scene had two cuts in it along with pans. The parallel time could be the Aang's motions for the attack as Yakone is looking up. Regardless, even if there was no parallel time there, it still doesn't prove your claim that Yakone could not have bent him there.

      A human running<a cart<an air scooter<flight. You just can't compare speeds and say "they are fast moving equally"

      Actually, Zaheer's flight is not as particularly impressive in speed as you're making it out to be. Korra could jet propulsion and rockpillar jump faster than Zaheer could fly. It's his maneuverability and freedom of movement that is the real advantage, other benders can move as quickly, but they're not as free when they do it.

      Anyways, I didn't say they were equally fast, what I said was that we have fast moving targets that are getting bloodbent casually. Your entire argument hinges upon this one instance of a surprised bloodbender failing to bloodbend his attacker.

      Another scenario is when Tenzin family and Korra and Mako was escaping from Amon. Amon opened door.in hallway and had to chase after. The bloodbending wasn't instantaneous. Why chase when he could just instantly incapacitate before Korra even firebent?

      As I mentioned before about this instance, he was just leaving the auditorium and may not have wanted to be exposed as a bloodbender, as Korra just accused him of this. He waited until he was in a secluded location.

        Loading editor
    • You do realize that Amon's panned out quite a bit as he moves, covering alot of distance, right? From that perspective it looks slower than it really is. Like looking at an airplane in the sky, it looks like its moving slow, even though it's going over 500 mph.

      Complete and utter Amon bias. I never said Amon was slow....just slower than Unalaq. Hmm I wonder who's siloette is smaller yet moving across the screen faster? The airplane example fits Unalaq way better. And even then Unalaq's body was farther from screen and moved through it way faster.

      I made it pretty clear that parallel time is one possible explanation and it does have two cuts in animation between his circling above the cart and striking the reins with an airblast, you're the one that needs to establish that it was impossible for Yakone to bend Aang there and that you have not done.

      Quite possible? No proof. The problem is doesn't cut...it pans to Aang then zooms. Impossible because Yakone did not do it. You do it or you can't do it. Nobody wants to be flipped over. If Yakone could do it...why not do it?

       The parallel time could be the Aang's motions for the attack as Yakone is looking up.

      No it couldn't have. Screenwriting doesn't work that way. Panning is not for parrelel time. For example Korra kicking Amon out the window was the screen moving toward Amon. Cutting is for parrel time.

      As I mentioned before about this instance, he was just leaving the auditorium and may not have wanted to be exposed as a bloodbender,

      That is not a good reason. Amon is a psychic bloodbender and has been bloodbending all this time without anyone looking. There was nobody in the hallway.

      Yes Zaheer's speed is not impressive....only the Avatar State can match it. Hahaha

      Your entire argument hinges upon this one instance of a surprised bloodbender failing to bloodbend his attacker.

      Your entire argument hinges on parrelel time...when screenwriting doesn't work that way.

        Loading editor
    • Complete and utter Amon bias. I never said Amon was slow....just slower than Unalaq. Hmm I wonder who's siloette is smaller yet moving across the screen faster? 

      Complete and utter Unalaq bias. I never said Unalaq was slow...just comparable to Amon. Hmm I wonder who's silhouette is bigger (Unalaq's actually visible in his picture) and moving across the screen faster? (Can't actually tell from your still images, though, unless Unalaq clears the entire screen in less than two seconds, this isn't a even a basis to debate that he's faster than Amon.)

      Quite possible? No proof. The problem is doesn't cut...it pans to Aang then zooms. Impossible because Yakone did not do it. You do it or you can't do it. Nobody wants to be flipped over.

      I'm claiming it as a possible explanation as to why he got hit here I don't know that this is what happened here, though, you're not doing a very good job at discrediting the parallel time notion. Interesting, for as closely as you're apparently reading into that particular scene, you're missing some key elements to it, as there are two cuts in it. Also, this is straight from the DVD versions.

      You can't accurately say that just because someone didn't do something that they cannot do it. Yakone was surprised here, evidenced by his expression. Nobody wants to be flipped over, but that doesn't mean they can always prevent it either. If he was caught off guard, he reasonably might not be able to react in time. And again, it's like I said earlier, Yakone didn't bloodbend Aang while he was inside the cart, does that mean Yakone cannot bloodbend someone he doesn't have line of sight on? No. It just means he didn't do it there. Likewise, that doesn't mean he couldn't have bloodbent Aang if he were not caught unawares.

      That is not a good reason. Amon is a psychic bloodbender and has been bloodbending all this time without anyone looking.

      Except that Amon's reputation and platform almost entirely depended on his opposition to benders. Being exposed as a bloodbender (which he was just publicly accused of) kind of ruins all that. Also note how that's what ultimately led him to leave Republic City, that he got caught as a waterbender. So, yes, that's an extremely good reason for him not to do it right out of the auditorium.


      Yes Zaheer's speed is not impressive....only the Avatar State can match it. Hahaha

      And? Ozai was able to keep up with the Avatar State Aang and he couldn't fly. Korra was able to overtake him, not just match his speed.

      The point is, others are able to move very fast and Zaheer's flight doesn't seem to edge other high speed benders out. Where he gains the upper hand however is in the maneuverability and freedom of movement, he doesn't need land, objects, or bending material to maintain his speed, like earth, air, or waterbenders do. Flight is awesome, it however, is not the end all be all in the speed department.

        Loading editor
    • moving across the screen faster? (Can't actually tell from your still images, though, unless Unalaq clears the entire screen in less than two seconds, this isn't a even a basis to debate that he's faster than Amon.)

      The problem is Unalaq flew across the base with seconds. Watch the episode.

      I'm claiming it as a possible explanation as to why he got hit here I don't know that this is what happened here, though, you're not doing a very good job at discrediting the parallel time notion. Interesting, for as closely as you're apparently reading into that particular scene, you're missing some key elements to it, as there are two cuts in it. Also, this is straight from the DVD versions.

      Show me then. If a screen pans. Its not parrelel motion. It has to be cut. Show me a video where it cuts.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0BJg-x_ftg

      And this is a sped up version for copyright reasons btw.

      THIS IS PARRALEL MOTION: Kuvira launches mutliple bands and they take long time to land. But its showing two screens by cutting. You can see the more accurate speed when Kuvira and a bandit on same shot and the bands land instantly(so you do know this scene was parralel time)


      THIS IS NOT PARALLEL MOTION.

      When Ming Hua enters, the screen moves to Bumi and Ghazan. Does that mean that they just started their fight? No. The situation is occuring right when Ming Hua enters with octopus arms. Neither was the cut to Aang parallel motion.



      'You can't accurately say that just because someone didn't do something that they cannot do it. Yakone was surprised here, evidenced by his expression. Nobody wants to be flipped over, but that doesn't mean they can always prevent it either. If he was caught off guard, he reasonably might not be able to react in time. And again, it's like I said earlier, Yakone didn't bloodbend Aang while he was inside the cart, does that mean Yakone cannot bloodbend someone he doesn't have line of sight on? No. It just means he didn't do it there. Likewise, that doesn't mean he couldn't have bloodbent Aang if he were not caught unawares.

      That is a poor explanation. Yakone had 5 seconds and he already reacted. Yakone DID have his sight on. The obvious reason is speed. Its harder to grab a fast moving object than a slow one.

      Except that Amon's reputation and platform almost entirely depended on his opposition to benders. Being exposed as a bloodbender (which he was just publicly accused of) kind of ruins all that. Also note how that's what ultimately led him to leave Republic City, that he got caught as a waterbender. So, yes, that's an extremely good reason for him not to do it right out of the auditorium.

      The problem is Amon DOES bloodbend in front of people. He does it with his mind. Mako even mentions this as well as Bryke DVD commentary.

      "That is how he has been beating us, any attack he redirects with his mind" said Mako in "Skeletons of the Closet".

      And? Ozai was able to keep up with the Avatar State Aang and he couldn't fly.

      Yeah Ozai must be your average bender not in Sozin's Comet. Not.

      Flight is awesome, it however, is not the end all be all in the speed department.

      Yes it does. Zaheer zoomed across screen in less then a second.

        Loading editor
    • The problem is Unalaq flew across the base with seconds. Watch the episode.

      I did, he didn't cover significantly more ground than Amon in a comparable time period.

      Show me then. If a screen pans. Its not parrel motion. It has to be cut. Show me a video where it cuts.

      5:17 and 5:19 The pan over to zoom to cut zoom, then the hand motions, cut, airwave.

      That is a poor explanation. Yakone had 5 seconds and he already reacted. Yakone DID have his sight on. The obvious reason is speed. Its harder to grab a fast moving object than a slow one.

      It was 3 or just under, from when he visibly noticed Aang, to the reins being hit. That includes the hand motions for the airwave and two cuts.

      When the cart was overturned and he was inside it, he didn't have line of sight.

      Maybe it was speed, but for different reasons than you're thinking. Ever see something happening but you just couldn't react to it in time? You watch a glass fall off the edge of a table, but you just can't move in time to catch it? He was surprised and that may have been why Aang was able to land the hit without him bending Aang.

      The problem is Amon DOES bloodbend in front people. He does it with his mind. Mako even mentions this as well as Bryke DVD commentary.

      He does, but not as blatantly as he'd have had to to catch the family. He does it subtley, if he's going to drop them all to their knees simultaneously, well, he just outted himself. He passes off his bloodbending to cut chi pathways as being a gift of the spirits, he passes off bending opponents slightly to help direct their attacks away so he can dodge them easier, but he can't exactly bloodbend them into pretzels in front of everyone without raising some eyebrows. Which is what we're talking about here.

      Yeah Ozai must be your average bender not in Sozin's Comet. Not.

      Aang received the benefit of the comet too. So, its a net gain of zero. We don't really have many speed feats of the Avatar State other than the Zaheer or Ozai fights and both times the Avatar was around the speed of their opponent. Again, Zaheer just isn't shown to be significantly faster than other benders doing their traveling bending.

      Yes it does. Zaheer zoomed across screen in less then a second.

      What was that phrase you used again? Oh, complete and utter Zaheer bias.

        Loading editor
    • I did, he didn't cover significantly more ground than Amon in a comparable time period.

      Not really. The length he covered in 1 second in the NWT portal is much more than a section of water by the bridge in RC.

      5:17 and 5:19 The pan over to zoom to cut zoom, then the hand motions, cut, airwave.

      Yeah it zooms toward Aang. Where is the airwave? The cut only happend AFTER the pan and zoom. So it was linear time. First Yakone gasps then, pan, then zoom, then arm motion, then airwave, then cut, Yakone's cart turned.


      When the cart was overturned and he was inside it, he didn't have line of sight.

      His head was turned away. A simple explanation is the cart moved faster while Aang was doing his charge since Yakone cannot bloodbend him. If it was truly parrelel time we can see the an airblast when Yakone looks up.

      If it was linear time:

      1.Yakone Gasps

      2.Camera moves toward Aang

      3.Aang charges attack

      4. Cut

      If it was parralel time:

      1. Yakone gasps

      2. Airwave is already moving at him since you say Aang already charged his attack while Yakone gasps and looks up.

      So its obviously linear time.


      Maybe it was speed, but for different reasons than you're thinking. Ever see something happening but you just couldn't react to it in time? You watch a glass fall off the edge of a table, but you just can't move in time to catch it? He was surprised and that may have been why Aang was able to land the hit without him bending Aang.

      The problem is a glass falls and hits the floor in almost less a second. Yakone took 5 seconds. 

      He does, but not as blatantly as he'd have had to to catch the family.

       Hmm why doesn't he just make them run slower? If he can do it so sneakily to make a opponent miss ever so slightly without knowing an arm cramp, why not do it to make them run slower? Because he can't. 

      Aang received the benefit of the comet too. So, its a net gain of zero.


      Aang used airbending to propell himself.

      What was that phrase you used again? Oh, complete and utter Zaheer bias.

      Except my example is good and comparable. You bring up stuff like airplanes moving at far away distance when clearly Unalaq is at a far away distance moving at high speeds. 

        Loading editor
    • 1 Not really.

      2 The cut could be to establish the rapid series of events. They cut to Aang to show the motions even though he probably actually did them within the span of less than a second.

      3 It actually makes it look like they may have always intended Yakone to have not even been aware of Aang until the airblast was heading toward him. With his head looking away to look at him surprised a second time on screen, but potentially the same first time in their time.

      Also, what I said about him not having line of sight was referencing his ability to bend someone he's not looking at directly, after the wave already landed and he was on the ground. Illustrating the point of how just because something isn't done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

      4 But we're watching the glass fall on video from different angles that are happening simultaneously in recording, but sequentially in playback. While the event took one second, it took five to watch on the recording.

      5 Probably because he was really after Korra, pretty consistent with his cat and mouse game with her. Also, as I've demonstrated at least three times, he does get Mako from about the same distance and circumstances shortly after this. He could, but he doesn't need to and there's the risk of getting caught in the act. Also, how many times have you watched Avatar and thought "if you'd just bent like this, the whole problem would be solved!"?

      6 Aang used all four elements in the "Avatar Barrier." 

      7 Not really. You act as though Unalaq can travel at supersonic speeds and Zaheer is faster than lightning. Meanwhile, Amon, having a similar speed feat is, magically, way slower. When I mentioned airplanes I was pointing out visual perspective, which is an integral concept to the scenes being used to establish the relative speeds of these benders.

        Loading editor
    • Aang propelled himself with airbending obviously seeing how he was already in the air with his bubble before bending all elements. The other elements were used as a platform of use...not to propell him.

      If it was truly parrallel time...where was the airblast when Yakone looked up.? And I never said you cannot bloodbend anyone line of sight. I just said its harder to grab something moving that fast.

      No the time where Mako was grabbed and when Amon first in the hallway were not comparable distances. Look at the range difference from opponent. And why would Amon get caught? He's in all hallway alone with them. All he has to do is knock them out in an instant. And why not make them run slower? Your reason makes no sense.

      Here are the two bodies drawn to scale juding by the human body size of the people on bridge. Comparable speeds? Unalaq is way faster capable covering the woods AND the military base in seconds. Amon simply stretched a quarter of the Arena in those seconds.

        Loading editor
    • If it was truly parrallel time...where was the airblast when Yakone looked up.? And I never said you cannot bloodbend anyone line of sight. I just said its harder to grab something moving that fast.

      You're missing the point. I'm establishing that just because he didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't.

      No the time where Mako was grabbed and when Amon first in the hallway were not comparable distances. Look at the range difference from opponent. And why would Amon get caught? He's in all hallway alone with them. All he has to do is knock them out in an instant. And why not make them run slower? Your reason makes no sense.

      Noting that your picture has Mako already pulled back some distance by Amon from where he already was, closing the gap.

      As for Amon getting caught, he walked through the door to the auditorium, if he were followed or someone saw him bending from the door, he could be exposed.

      Okay, why didn't Amon just kill Korra, and kill Mako? He didn't. That doesn't mean he couldn't have. Likewise, why do they do so many of the things they do in this show? There are valid reasons to not act as you say he would if he could do this. But, I don't know, I don't pretend to know the characters' minds.

      Here are the two bodies drawn to scale juding by the human body size of the people on bridge. Comparable speeds? Unalaq is way faster capable covering the woods AND the military base in seconds. Amon simply stretched a quarter of the Arena in those seconds.

      Your Amon standin is roughly twice the size of the nearest people on the bridge.

      Are you next going to tell me the base is the size of Republic City?

        Loading editor
    • You're missing the point. I'm establishing that just because he didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't.

      Your avoiding my point. You clearly said parrelel time but clearly the truth is Yakone was shocked looked up, Aang charged attack, then attacked. There was no charge before.

      If he didn't he didn't. Yakone couldn't so he got turned over.

      Noting that your picture has Mako already pulled back some distance by Amon from where he already was, closing the gap.

      He was pulled up. Not much back. If you can't see the siloutte difference, I don't know what to tell you. The picture when Amon just entered the hallway from autorium was much smaller and Korra wasn't even seen meaning she was even farther away beyond the camera.

      As for Amon getting caught, he walked through the door to the auditorium, if he were followed or someone saw him bending from the door, he could be exposed.

      Uh nobody was down the hallway. Just psychic bloodbend and KO.

      Okay, why didn't Amon just kill Korra, and kill Mako? He didn't. 

      Matrydom probably. But he doesn't need to kill them. Instantly knocking them out would do the trick and makes no difference than capturing them and is more effecient. 

      Your Amon standin is roughly twice the size of the nearest people on the bridge.

      Are you next going to tell me the base is the size of Republic City?

      Amon standing? What are you talking about? I was comparing Amon's body to Unalaq's body. Amon's body is the water so its hard to tell. So a good estimate is the people at the bridge parrelel to the direction Amon is traveling. Now I scaled it with the Unalaq picture.

        Loading editor
    • Your avoiding my point. You clearly said parrelel time but clearly the truth is Yakone was shocked looked up, Aang charged attack, then attacked. There was no charge before.

      If he didn't he didn't. Yakone couldn't so he got turned over.

      By repeatedly, directly addressing it.

      You're still missing the distinctly different point about the difference between being able to and doing.

      He was pulled up. Not much back. If you can't see the siloutte difference, I don't know what to tell you. The picture when Amon just entered the hallway from autorium was much smaller and Korra wasn't even seen meaning she was even farther away beyond the camera.

      Mako's torso was almost taking up the entire screen and he was pulled back to about half the distance between the camera and Amon.

      Amon is about 25% bigger in the second set. He's still sitting around the same range. If he were even double the size, you might have something there. They changed the tiles in the background so it's harder to compare the first and second hallways, but Mako has about 30 shown paces before Amon catches him. However, the background isn't very consistent, so it's unclear if this was supposed to be near the door, if he'd pursued them aways, or if this was even later on in the chase.

      When you were talking about silhouettes, I thought you were talking about the bridge, with the silhouette of him in the water. In the halls, we clearly see him.

      Uh nobody was down the hallway. Just psychic bloodbend and KO.

      He wouldn't have known that immediately, and someone could have seen/followed from the auditorium. As it turns out, his second in command did just that.

      Matrydom probably. But he doesn't need to kill them. Instantly knocking them out would do the trick and makes no difference than capturing them and is more effecient.

      So, he, Tarlaq, and Yakone are all morons. Sure, I'd probably use bloodbending differently from them.

      Point is, he probably really wanted the Avatar here, and in keeping with the cat and mouse game, he terrifies her and corners her. And he's shown bending Mako from a comparable distance and throwing him around. Not much basis for saying he couldn't have from the door to the T intersection they were at.

      Amon standing? What are you talking about? I was comparing Amon's body to Unalaq's body. Amon's body is the water so its hard to tell. So a good estimate is the people at the bridge parrelel to the direction Amon is traveling. Now I scaled it with the Unalaq picture.

      I thought you were trying to say how big Amon really was to clarify, by throwing that on the picture. Okay, Unalaq is bigger than even the nearest people on the boardwalk. So, he's at least twice as close as Amon is.

        Loading editor
    • By repeatedly, directly addressing it.

      You're still missing the distinctly different point about the difference between being able to and doing.

      No you keep saying parrelel time on how by the time Yakone reacted it was too late...so where is the airslice when Yakone reacted.

      Then why not do it if he can?

      Mako's torso was almost taking up the entire screen and he was pulled back to about half the distance between the camera and Amon.

      No he was not. Stop making stuff up. Half way pulled back? Are you blind?

      Amon is about 25% bigger in the second set. He's still sitting around the same range.

      That makes zero sense. That is like saying he looks closer but the range is the same. You just stabbed your own argument. Do you know how big a differnce 25 percent is? And we don't even know if its 25 percent since we have no idea how away Korra was in the first set. The point is it is way farther.

      He wouldn't have known that immediately, and someone could have seen/followed from the auditorium. As it turns out, his second in command did just that.

      Then why not jus bloodbend them to run slower?

      So, he, Tarlaq, and Yakone are all morons. Sure, I'd probably use bloodbending differently from them.

      How are they morons? Did I ever object to their decisions?

      I thought you were trying to say how big Amon really was to clarify, by throwing that on the picture. Okay, Unalaq is bigger than even the nearest people on the boardwalk. So, he's at least twice as close as Amon is.

      Unalaq is about the same size.

        Loading editor
    • In terms of fighting abilities: Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira > Unalaq

      In terms of being a compelling villain: Zaheer > Unalaq > Amon > Kuvira

        Loading editor
    • Amon lacks the discipline or enlightenment that zaheer has , zaheer is is stronger than Amon, Amon isn't that impressive all he has going for him is blood bending which I've said early can be overcome.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Amon lacks the discipline or enlightenment that zaheer has , zaheer is is stronger than Amon, Amon isn't that impressive all he has going for him is blood bending which I've said early can be overcome.

      Zaheer hasn't demonstrated anything that proves he could overcome Amon's psychic bloodbending. Without CIS Amon could KO Zaheer in seconds.

        Loading editor
    • Admiral Zhao The Unconquerable wrote:
      I'm sorry... (Just kidding, that was a joke).

      Anyway, thank you. And yes, Go Amon, Equalize them! Ha!


      Also, a really terrible joke: what do you call it if you have 4 followers of Amon on one side and 4 on the other and they are constantly switching sides but keeping the same numbers?

      A dynamic EQUALbrium!

      That was a really bad joke.

      I actually like that joke, since I know what a dynamic equilibrium is, and because it reminds me of all the stand up comedy memes with Amon (if you haven't seen those memes then I recommend you to do it as soon as possible, because some of those memes are really hilarious).

        Loading editor
    • No you keep saying parrelel time on how by the time Yakone reacted it was too late...so where is the airslice when Yakone reacted.

      They could have botched the editing, as this likely wasn't that huge a point to them. Looking at the hallways really closely in the other scenes with Amon, we see that from shot to shot there are some inconsistencies particularly with the backgrounds and other small mistakes that take a close look to notice. This may have been one such instance.

      Then why not do it if he can?

      Why didn't he kill the Avatar and the council when he easily could have in the court room? Why didn't Amon take Korra's bending when he met her under the monument of Aang? Why didn't Yakone bloodbend the police that arrested him prior to trial? Why doesn't Mako fry Amon after he hit him with lightning into the wall, instead running away when Amon is down? Why doesn't Amon fly right back into the building after being defenestrated and take Korra and Mako out, as this time they have nothing left with which to surprise him and he's already exposed anyways? Why did Korra split away from the airbenders, rather than all gang up and beat down Amon in front of everyone so he'd either have to bloodbend them or lose to the group of powerful benders? 

      No he was not. Stop making stuff up. Half way pulled back? Are you blind?

      Well, watch the scene, Mako is taking up nearly the entire shot and we can't even begin to see his legs (the bottom of the screen is midway through his abs) until he's thrown back by Amon. At which point when he lifts Mako up to a standing position Mako is about three times the size of Amon as apparent to the viewer. We also have Korra's "No!" and fires an airblast which travels down the hallway showing the distance from slightly beyond where Mako dropped her and initially fell, to where Mako was subsequently thrown (which Amon walked to after pulling him most of the way back toward himself, but we can cancel that out, as she slid pretty far (Mako must have really been moving...even though there wasn't much space behind Amon, so where was Mako running from? Which brings into question those little details that are being overlooked in the production)). He reasonably pulled Mako some distance and brought him to eight paces in front of himself which he closed by walking as he was holding Mako in place after bashing him against the walls. Assuming casual paces, at 6', I comfortably cover 19' in eight steps. Amon was clearly bending Mako from well beyond 20'.

      We also have when Amon is looming over Mako about to take his bending, Korra is a noticeable distance outside of his shadow. At 6', with a light about 2' above my head and 2' behind me, I cast a shadow of about 16'. If I even drop the few feet that Korra is probably beyond that shadow, we still have 36'.

      Even as a kid, he was able to bloodbend a bison from a distance that they weren't apparently noticed by bison from, and a pack of wolves after they were sprinting away from Tarlaq's bending them.

      Even a conservative estimate leaves Amon at being able to bloodbend a target(s) from at least 40'. Tarlaq says, to the Avatar mind you, he's never encountered a bender as strong as Amon. Amon impressed even Yakone...when he was a kid. You are massively underestimating him.

      That makes zero sense. That is like saying he looks closer but the range is the same. You just stabbed your own argument. Do you know how big a differnce 25 percent is? And we don't even know if its 25 percent since we have no idea how away Korra was in the first set. The point is it is way farther.

      What was 25% different was his apparent height, which is to show the illusion of distance as he's standing away in the hallways, we're talking about comparaing the implied distances. Sure, I do. I also know that Mako was 300% apparantly larger than Amon (who is 100% of his apparant height in this scene) after he was thrown around and pulled toward him when he was forced into a standing position before being pulled even more toward Amon, in the second set. And when he first grabbed him, he was 1000% apparently larger than that. Amon was around 3% the size of Mako here, prior to pull to where Amon was.

      But hey, you wanted to say this was way beyond his bending range, how don't you know the distance?

      Then why not jus bloodbend them to run slower?

      Along the lines of what I said previously, often the benders do things I wouldn't do or don't do things I would. He probably could, he's demonstrated the ability to finely control multiple targets from comparable distances. So, I don't know, but it reasonably is well within his power if he felt like it.

      How are they morons? Did I ever object to their decisions?

      Since Amon could do this to the fleeing airbenders, stupid of him not to? So, say that you believed Yakone certainly had the ability to bend Aang on the airscooter, and you still maintained that he wasn't so surprised that he'd have time to reasonably act, but didn't, what do you think of that? Was it a poor choice?

      Unalaq is about the same size.

      Your superimposed Unalaq is apparantly bigger than even the closest people on the boardwalk. Amon is clearly well beyond them, if they are about the same size, Amon would be like 20' tall.

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer is mentally superior to Amon meaning he has the potential to resist his grip as seen by korra. Don't forget chi runs through a warriors veins along with blood, the avatar state allows an excessive amount of chi to run through the avatars body that's why it can break the blood benders grip the chi overwhelms blood bending and distrusts it. Now if zaheer could boost his chi I'm guessing he did in order to fly he could break the grip but either way amons not coming back and zaheers a much better character

        Loading editor
    • Korra bent out of her foot, when he was apparently reigning in her arms. Mako bent out of his hand which he wasn't able to move freely.

      Chi doesn't necessarily follow the veins, it is not like blood. Bloodbending is bending the water in the person's body.

      We don't know why the Avatar State breaks bloodbending, only that it does in Aang's case.

      That's a pretty big guess on how he gained flight. And you're out a couple steps onto a limb.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Zaheer is mentally superior to Amon meaning he has the potential to resist his grip as seen by korra. Don't forget chi runs through a warriors veins along with blood, the avatar state allows an excessive amount of chi to run through the avatars body that's why it can break the blood benders grip the chi overwhelms blood bending and distrusts it. Now if zaheer could boost his chi I'm guessing he did in order to fly he could break the grip but either way amons not coming back and zaheers a much better character

      I personally do not agree, chi is not in the viens, but I'm not entirely sure and could be wrong. I don't think flying required boosting his chi. Anyway if Amon were seriously blood bending with ALL his might, Zaheer might not be able to get out. He was only toying with Mako, not seeing him as a threat, after all, he beat the avatar just before quite easily, so mako was able to do it. Also, I think only the avatar state to break out of blood bending works. I don't think it works the way you think-i don't think extra chi causes you to break out of blood bending state. However, I might be wrong. Its just my two cents.

        Loading editor
    • Actually chi does suki literally said the chi flows through a warriors veins, it looks like Amon had her whole body in his grip and she kicked because who doesn't love someone kicking someone through a wall

        Loading editor
    • Amon is in my opinion a better character than Zaheer(frankly, I think he's a lot cooler) and a stronger fighter. Imagine if Amon put full concentration, 100%, into blood bending, super focused... I don't think Zaheer could get out of that, maybe Korra or Aang(with the avatar state) Zaheer can struggle, during that, maybe throw a sluggish airbender punch, but not likely. That's what I think

        Loading editor
    • Suki probably meant metaphorically. Air Nomads' mastery tattoos were said to follow chi paths, which do not match up with major veins, there is some overlap, but they are by no means the same.

      Her arms and torso seemed to be the focus and Amon grabbed her out of desperation, then she raises her leg and blasts the air at him. Could be, or did she do it because that was the only avaialble option to her?

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer is a better fighter he spent years honing his skills with out bending plus he is way more spirtual. Zaheer also truly wants what he Believes is best for the world, he was even willing to help his former enemy to do so , that's why I have a lot of respect for zaheer

        Loading editor
    • Physical martial artist? Perhaps, but he isn't necessarily a better bender. Amon is no slouch when it comes to physically fighting either however.

      Amon did the same.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Zaheer is mentally superior to Amon meaning he has the potential to resist his grip as seen by korra. Don't forget chi runs through a warriors veins along with blood, the avatar state allows an excessive amount of chi to run through the avatars body that's why it can break the blood benders grip the chi overwhelms blood bending and distrusts it. Now if zaheer could boost his chi I'm guessing he did in order to fly he could break the grip but either way amons not coming back and zaheers a much better character

      First: mental ability does not necessarily translate to willpower.  A person with mensa-level IQ can be a lazy, snivelling person like Prince Wu.  Do you really think someone like Prince Wu, no matter how smart they are, could actually exert enough willpower to break out of bloodbending?  Also, it's never been satisfactorily proven that willpower alone can actually break a bloodbender's grip; there are other theories earlier in this thread that are just as plausible.  That being said, it would not surprise me that Zaheer specifically is capable of doing that IF willpower actually can be used to do that.

      Second: chi does not flow through veins according to traditional Chinese medicine.  It flows through meridians, which are basically invisible connect-the-dot lines between all the body's pressure points.  While the arteries do serve a function by connecting those meridians to each other and to the internal organs, the chi energy never actually mingles with the blood at any time.  

      Third: I agree that Zaheer is a better character than Amon, but that doesn't mean he'd beat Amon in a fight.  It's a very close call, but I think Amon likely would win.

        Loading editor
    • Why is it that Zaheer is considered to have so much willpower? If anything, it seems like he might have less than others. His big thing is freedom and letting go of attachments.

      I'd say if he were really determined, he'd have killed Korra through the tornado, even if it meant tearing her throat out with his bear hands. Instead, he tried to bail even after it was pretty clear he couldn't have anyways, but failed.

        Loading editor
    • @Mcjediprobie by mentally superior I meant more spiritually enlightened and having a stronger spirit not smarter

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      @Mcjediprobie by mentally superior I meant more spiritually enlightened and having a stronger spirit not smarter

      What I said before still stands: spiritual enlightenment does not necessarily translate to willpower.  A spiritually enlightened person would be just as likely to surrender to the bloodbender's grip and accept the inevitbile than to actively resist it.

        Loading editor
    • They could have botched the editing, as this likely wasn't that huge a point to them. Looking at the hallways really closely in the other scenes with Amon, we see that from shot to shot there are some inconsistencies particularly with the backgrounds and other small mistakes that take a close look to notice. This may have been one such instance.

      5 seconds is a big difference.....

      Why didn't he kill the Avatar and the council when he easily could have in the court room? Why didn't Amon take Korra's bending when he met her under the monument of Aang? Why didn't Yakone bloodbend the police that arrested him prior to trial? Why doesn't Mako fry Amon after he hit him with lightning into the wall, instead running away when Amon is down? Why doesn't Amon fly right back into the building after being defenestrated and take Korra and Mako out, as this time they have nothing left with which to surprise him and he's already exposed anyways? Why did Korra split away from the airbenders, rather than all gang up and beat down Amon in front of everyone so he'd either have to bloodbend them or lose to the group of powerful benders? 

      You do realize those are battlefield strategies that don't have direct risk in your life? Its like saying comparing deciding to chase someone to chosing to stop getting stabbed or not. Horrible comparrison.

      Well, watch the scene, Mako is taking up nearly the entire shot 

      That is the problem, the early hallway scene where Amon enters...Korra is BEYOND THE SHOT. So the distances between opponents are NOT THE SAME.

      We also have when Amon is looming over Mako about to take his bending, Korra is a noticeable distance outside of his shadow. At 6', with a light about 2' above my head and 2' behind me, I cast a shadow of about 16'. If I even drop the few feet that Korra is probably beyond that shadow, we still have 36'.

      Shadow depends on light angle. We have no idea of light angle in hallway.

      Even as a kid, he was able to bloodbend a bison from a distance that they weren't apparently noticed by bison from, and a pack of wolves after they were sprinting away from Tarlaq's bending them.

      That hallway picture is still farther from opponent.

      As for the wolves we have no idea how far they sprinted. Nor do we have idea Korra's postion, but we do know it was beyond the screen where Amon already looked far. A scaled their bodies around the same size with Older Noatak a bit taller.

      Note: Pictures deleted by mod. But you can find them on Avatarspirit per episode.









      What was 25% different was his apparent height, which is to show the illusion of distance as he's standing away in the hallways, we're talking about comparaing the implied distances. 

      No they are not same distances. 

      When Amon's enters hallway: Korra isn't even in picture meaning she is way farher

                                                Amon's body is smaller.

      Along the lines of what I said previously, often the benders do things I wouldn't do or don't do things I would. He probably could, he's demonstrated the ability to finely control multiple targets from comparable distances. So, I don't know, but it reasonably is well within his power if he felt like it.

      That's not helping Amon's brilliance. Amon isn't stupid.

      Since Amon could do this to the fleeing airbenders, stupid of him not to? So, say that you believed Yakone certainly had the ability to bend Aang on the airscooter

      Uh Amon didn't see the airbenders by the time he entered...they were gone. So how could he do this? 

      I never said Yakone could...Airscooters are faster than sprinting speed.

      Your superimposed Unalaq is apparantly bigger than even the closest people on the boardwalk. 

      No it isn't....

        Loading editor
    • 5 seconds is a big difference.....

      If it's edited to five seconds but representing a one second span of events, it's still one second of actual time.

      You do realize those are battlefield strategies that don't have direct risk in your life? Its like saying comparing deciding to chase someone to chosing to stop getting stabbed or not. Horrible comparrison.

      They all reasonably would have represented problems later, and in Mako's case, leaving a powerful bloodbender to get up is extremely dangerous in the short term, same goes for when Korra ran as a decoy, as well as when the airbenders and Mako and Korra didn't beat down Amon in the open.

      That is the problem, the early hallway scene where Amon enters...Korra is BEYOND THE SHOT. So the distances between opponents are NOT THE SAME.

      I guess I assumed you realized the T intersection was right there, what was shown in the shot back at Amon would be right in front of the intersection.

      Shadow depends on light angle. We have no idea of light angle in hallway.

      I mimicked the angle of the light when casting my own shadow. Amon is visibly in front about 4', supported by his taking two steps of a little over 2' a piece, and he's about 4' below the light, taking his rough height into account.

      He was easily beyond 30' from Mako when he grabbed him. And that's with me being extremely generous to you. 

      That hallway picture is still farther from opponent.

      As for the wolves we have no idea how far they sprinted. Nor do we have idea Korra's postion, but we do know it was beyond the screen where Amon already looked far. A scaled their bodies around the same size with Older Noatak a bit taller.

      With the wolves. They were about 15' from Tarlaq (comparing his height to the distance between him and the wolves, assuming Tarlaq was 5' at the time, fairly reasonable for a 12 year old), the average wolf can run 30 mph for at least 20 minutes (and these wolves would probably be running their fasted as they have no idea what creepy thing just happened to them and they're terrified). After Tarlaq released them, they ran for 10 full seconds before Amon attempted to bloodbend them (and this is with me dropping another two seconds, which may or may not have been parallel time, when it cut to a closeup of the wolves). So, in that time, they could have reasonably covered almost 440', well over a football field worth of distance, putting them around 455' total from where Amon and Tarlaq stood. And Amon caught them, dragged them back a ways, made them turn around, levitated them toward him, and lay them prone before him.

      If you want to argue about another 10' for Korra at that intersection (which is already generous), fine, take another ten yards (well beyond the difference you're disputing), he still could have bent her at twice even that distance if he chose to.

      That's not helping Amon's brilliance. Amon isn't stupid.

      Again, he may not want to get discovered, so he didn't do it there. (He'd still have to somehow contrive a plausible nonbender reason why he can restrain six benders by himself.) He may not really care about the airbenders right now, because he's after the Avatar and enjoys striking fear into her heart, evidenced by his toying with her in the storage room when she was hiding under the table but he knew full well she was there the entire time (and all the other times he's done that up to this point).

      Uh Amon didn't see the airbenders by the time he entered...they were gone. So how could he do this? 

      I never said Yakone could...Airscooters are faster than sprinting speed.

      Point being, we know that he doesn't need line of sight to bloodbend someone, like with Korra hiding under a table with cloth obstructing vision of her, like with people behind him, like Yakone with people behind him. And I pointed this out to illustrate the concept of just because someone doesn't, doesn't mean they can't.

      Back to the carriage vs airscooter scene. Their relative speed was about the same. Also, you've not established that it is not possible, or even really a good reason why they couldn't bloodbend a fast moving target. Your argument hinges upon one instance in which a bloodbender was surprised and they happened to be moving quickly, but at relative speeds. And because Yakone didn't bloodbend Aang when he was visibly surprised, you claim that bloodbending is not possible on fast moving targets. Even though we have seen multiple other bending forms bend fast moving obejects/moving targets/moving benders. We don't have a whole lot of feats for bloodbending, like the others, but there isn't much of a basis to say this one can't do what other bending or waterbending in general can do. We also have Amon bending the fleeing wolves that are likely running over 30 mph, where a typical horse galloping is only marginally faster if at all, and that's assuming no carriage. Again, if I continued to be generous to you, and gave you 30 mph with the carriage which is very unreasonable, Aang is going about that speed too as he syncs with the speed of the carriage so, Yakone would be faced with a target going about 30 mph, with a relative speed of 0 mph.

      So, where we're at:

      Distance, Amon has a feat of multiple target, psychic bending from over 450'. Complete with ability to drag the targets toward him and levitate them with fine enough control to make them syncronized.

      Speed, in the same feat above, he again, multiple target, pscyhic bent a group reasonably going in excess of 30 mph (almost a 1/10 of a mile away). As well as human targets running to and away from him from considerably less distance.

      We also know that water can be bent while moving at attacking missile speeds in redirection maneuvers, which are considerably faster than Zaheer's flight speed (he can't outrun water torrents, he dodges these laterally). So, we have no reason to believe that water cannot be bent at high speeds, bloodbending has provided no substantiated reason to believe otherwise for it either.

      Neither Zaheer's speed, nor his distance pose any reason to believe he could not be bloodbent by Amon if they were fighting. So, it can be reasonably asserted that a flying Zaheer would be susceptable to Amon's bloodbending.

      No it isn't....

      Hah, and you call me blind!

      Anyways, I think this one has been put to bed. Thanks for getting me to really study Amon's bloodbending, which made me see how much more overpowered it really is compared to what I initially thought. Was fun!

        Loading editor
    • Weltall8000 wrote: Why is it that Zaheer is considered to have so much willpower? If anything, it seems like he might have less than others. His big thing is freedom and letting go of attachments.

      I'd say if he were really determined, he'd have killed Korra through the tornado, even if it meant tearing her throat out with his bear hands. Instead, he tried to bail even after it was pretty clear he couldn't have anyways, but failed.

      Plis death explains his will power because he could have grieved and stopped attacking but instead he knew that he need to knockout korra in order to begin his revolution, lol the shows on nick they can't show korra getting disembowled, also he was carring her while fighting 100mph winds, it's impressive enough that he was able to lift her while literally be sucked into a vortex .

        Loading editor
    • Even if Zaheer would have strong willpower, it wouldn't help him, because the only known things that can make you brake free from the grip of bloodbending is either the Avatar state or if you are a more powerful water bender than the person that is trying to bloodbend you (with this comment I am assuming that the person is being fully bloodbent, which mean that he/she can't move a muscle, unlike Korra or Mako when they were bloodbent by Amon).

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:

      Plis death explains his will power because he could have grieved and stopped attacking but instead he knew that he need to knockout korra in order to begin his revolution, lol the shows on nick they can't show korra getting disembowled, also he was carring her while fighting 100mph winds, it's impressive enough that he was able to lift her while literally be sucked into a vortex .

      I disagree. According to exposition, his flight wasn't a matter of willpower, it was "letting go of worldly attachments" (which I don't actually believe he did completely, evidenced by his actions, but that's another matter). He literally threw himself in fate's hands and jumped off a cliff and it happened, that's not willpower, that's letting go.

      Noting that we did see him suck the breath out of the Earth Queen, was doing that to Korra, and P'li's attack covered by armor...then a plume of smoke where she was standing. While they don't need to explicitly show it...they have heavily, blatantly implied it just off of our screen. If he hypothetically were to kill Korra there, they could have found a creative way to satisfy the censors.

      So, he can carry her...but he can't crush her windpipe with his hand? He, an alleged master martial artist can't strike any vital point and kill a helpless, barely conscious person that is in his grasp? Do you see how plausible it would have been to kill her there now?

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer > Amon > Kuvira > Unalaq in terms of degree of evil in intent and character quality.

      Let's start with Unalaq. Basically evil for evil's sake. 

      Kuvira is slightly better but I'm dissatisfied with the low amount of character development she's been getting. She went from a dancer to a military conqueror in just three years. I wished we got some more of her during Book 3 since she was just kind of there until the "You can call me Kuvira" part. Next in Book 4 we just see her going crazy, constipated, and power hungry. Dissatisfying.

      Amon and Zaheer are similar. Both had interesting ideologies and badass bending prowess. Both also gave the Avatar a very hard fight and were only defeated by luck. Amon was defeated by Korra putting on the switch to airbending unexpectedly. Zaheer was defeated only by a tornado, but he was winning that duel hands-down before. 

      But I have to give Zaheer the one-up because his Red Lotus is way more powerful than Amon's Equalists. Amon's bending, although straight-up broken, was albeitly a bit boring to watch. But the Red Lotus were just unstoppable and their bending styles were a joy to watch too.

        Loading editor
    • Weltall8000 wrote:

      Thebridge14 wrote:

      Plis death explains his will power because he could have grieved and stopped attacking but instead he knew that he need to knockout korra in order to begin his revolution, lol the shows on nick they can't show korra getting disembowled, also he was carring her while fighting 100mph winds, it's impressive enough that he was able to lift her while literally be sucked into a vortex .

      I disagree. According to exposition, his flight wasn't a matter of willpower, it was "letting go of worldly attachments" (which I don't actually believe he did completely, evidenced by his actions, but that's another matter). He literally threw himself in fate's hands and jumped off a cliff and it happened, that's not willpower, that's letting go.

      Noting that we did see him suck the breath out of the Earth Queen, was doing that to Korra, and P'li's attack covered by armor...then a plume of smoke where she was standing. While they don't need to explicitly show it...they have heavily, blatantly implied it just off of our screen. If he hypothetically were to kill Korra there, they could have found a creative way to satisfy the censors.

      So, he can carry her...but he can't crush her windpipe with his hand? He, an alleged master martial artist can't strike any vital point and kill a helpless, barely conscious person that is in his grasp? Do you see how plausible it would have been to kill her there now?

      Letting go is a form of willpower, just think about it letting go of pli which I'm sure must have been hard for him almost impossible but because of his determination for world freedom and only way to do so was enter the void,he did and controlled new found power. the guru also literally told Aang the same thing when he said in order to have the willpower to control the avatar state you must let go.In all due respect Your missing the point about killing korra, the characters you mentioned were all antagonists killing korra in book 3 would make no sense because she's our main protagonist and we still had a whole book left. The point is Zaheer did everything he could to destroy korra

        Loading editor
    • Not really. There can be some overlap between the two, but they are distinct concepts. He can't really will himself into the void, he had to let go of his worldly desires (according to the exposition (which I don't actually believe he did as evidenced by his actions)).

      Not exactly, willpower was one of the chakras, pure cosmic energy was another one, which was blocked by earthly attachments. What Guru Pathik was trying to teach him was to balance it all out (he mentioned the balance early on in his lesson).

      No, I'm not missing the point. You're relying on a contrived out of universe reason to explain why events in the show occurred as they did, rather than acknowledging the in universe events and how they panned out and what they implied. Basically, "Korra can't die because she's the protagonist and we have more books to fill." Okay, I can't really argue that. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, how do we explain what's going on in universe? Characters can't just do stuff because they won't work for the series? Let's just throw immersion out the window. "Zaheer clearly wasn't dangerous, he couldn't kill Korra anyway!" "Kuvira can't kill Korra, this is a Nick show!"

      And, Zaheer didn't do everything that he reasonably could have to kill Korra. He could have done it, but he chose to try to have his cake and eat it too, he tried to stay free rather than kill her for the cause, at the price of his freedom. If he'd let go of her right away, he probably could have escaped. If he'd just gone to kill her after he realized he couldn't escape with her (or dropped her and escaped right away after he tried to escape with her but encountered difficulty, he might have made it) he still could have acheived that. When he hit the point of no return though, he could have killed her, but he had no chance for escape, but he still tried in vain.

        Loading editor
    • Let's just agree to disagree

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Let's just agree to disagree

      Why? This is the "General discussion" painel, the board to full debates, no monologues.

        Loading editor
    • Toph's friend wrote:
      Um, if Unalaq fused with Vaatu isn't being considered here, then Amon stomps. There's nothing that any of the three have that'll stop his bloodbending. I don't understand why people are writing paragraphs upon paragraphs on who would win between these four. Everybody not named Amon gets bloodbended and most likely their bending taken as well. It's as simple as that. 

      Unalaq fused with Vaatu would defeat Amon. Vaatu is a spirit, so bloodbending would not work on him.

      I say: Unalaq fused with Vaatu-Amon-Zaheer-Kuvira=regular Unalaq.  

        Loading editor
    • Are we using Unavaatu or Unalaq? Or maybe both?

        Loading editor
    • Airbender Master wrote:

      Thebridge14 wrote:
      Let's just agree to disagree

      Why? This is the "General discussion" painel, the board to full debates, no monologues.

      I'm not going to waste time trying to convience someone who doesn't agree with me. We both stated our opinions and that's fine no sense in writing in circles about the same thing. I just accepted that we couldn't come to an agreement.

        Loading editor
    • Opinions =/= facts and not all opinions were created equal. Not sure why it's so hard to just say "huh, I guess I was wrong" rather than attempting to save face with a copout cliche' for some reason (who cares?). But, w/e's, pride is a fool's fortress.

        Loading editor
    • Unfortunately, it's a widely used fortress.

        Loading editor
    • Weltall8000 wrote: Opinions =/= facts and not all opinions were created equal. Not sure why it's so hard to just say "huh, I guess I was wrong" rather than attempting to save face with a copout cliche' for some reason (who cares?). But, w/e's, pride is a fool's fortress.

      Dude your argument like mine is completely based off speculation and your personal interpretation of what happens that the beauty of a great show it's open to different interpretations of the same thing. Your accusing me of having too much pride for trying to be diplomatic and negotiate peacefully.

        Loading editor
    • No, it isn't. I went back to the series and what the character in question (Guru Pathik) actually said and you misquoted him. You also accused me of missing the point, when you were spouting off nonsensical gibberish. So, you could admit that, or even just say nothing, but instead you would rather say "let's agree to disagree." Which is whatever, but still a copout cliche to save face when you were wrong.

        Loading editor
    • Ok so let me this straight First you call my argument gibberish thanks That's really constructive. Second I didn't quote pattik I summarized what he said. Third If it means that much to you Your right I'm wrong. Fourth that's incredibly rude to assume That I'm that full of myself that I won't admit when I'm wrong Even though I was just trying to end something that I'm not fully invested in. Fifth I'm not even sure what I'm wrong about in your eyes please tell me. I accused you of missing the point in the nicest possible way.

        Loading editor
    • Well, I calls 'em like I see's 'em. But "agree to disagree" is super constructive.

      And you got it wrong, which is misquoting him. Paraphrasing is one thing, but changing the message is misquoting.

      That's already been established, but it doesn't really.

      It's fairly rude to say someone missed the point when the one saying they did is wrong. You demonstrably were, then, rather than admit it or just leave it, you give a cop out response which implies that the two positions are somehow comparably valid, which I don't even bother with, until you furtther comment on it, acting as if it's actually a matter of opinion rather than you flat out misunderstanding and misquoting the show. It's like if I said Aang was a girl, you said, "He's not...he's clearly a boy, he's pysically male as evidenced numerous times in the show when he was shirtless, his musculature lack of breasts etc, refers to himself as a male, is referred to as a male by the writers...yeah, Aang's a dude."  then I told you "well, that's your opinion. Agree to disagree!" Actually, it wouldn't be an opinion, it would be a matter of fact and they are not equal.

      See previous posts in which it was discussed.

        Loading editor
    • Ok so now you critisize my knowledge of the show called my arguments gibberish call me "a copout", again by saying agree to disagree is a harmless response but to prove My points about Zahee,r You were talking about how he had no will power because he detached himself, I then explained that he had enough innerstregth to fully let go of his true love Pli and the willpower to contunie his mission in poisioning korra and ending the avatar cycle and enough will power to stay composed instead of wallowing in Plis Death. You than said he didnt have enough will power because he didnt rip Korras throat out.Ok your allowed to think that but if you were to rewatch the episode Zaheer was pulling Korra out of the tornado with him, he could have fled himself but his determination prevented him from leaving without Korra. What I summurized about Pattik was that letting go is diffcult and it takes willpower, The cosmic aang that apeared when he let go of Katara was an exemplification of his controll over himself and control over the avatar state and thus having control takes will power and yes I understand the Fire and Thought Chakras are sepperate but they both include parts of eachother as all Chakras do . I then compared this to when Zaheer let go of Pli he had the innear strength to do so. See how being wrong and not wanting to continue and end peacefully are two sepperate things. I didnt cop out of anything. Hate to break to you but it seems your just looking to fight. 

        Loading editor
    • Already discussed and you've still not rebutted a thing I said on the matter. Though, looks to be about the same in light of  your previous few posts.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Ok so now you critisize my knowledge of the show called my arguments gibberish call me "a copout", again by saying agree to disagree is a harmless response but to prove My points about Zahee,r You were talking about how he had no will power because he detached himself, I then explained that he had enough innerstregth to fully let go of his true love Pli and the willpower to contunie his mission in poisioning korra and ending the avatar cycle and enough will power to stay composed instead of wallowing in Plis Death. You than said he didnt have enough will power because he didnt rip Korras throat out.Ok your allowed to think that but if you were to rewatch the episode Zaheer was pulling Korra out of the tornado with him, he could have fled himself but his determination prevented him from leaving without Korra. What I summurized about Pattik was that letting go is diffcult and it takes willpower, The cosmic aang that apeared when he let go of Katara was an exemplification of his controll over himself and control over the avatar state and thus having control takes will power and yes I understand the Fire and Thought Chakras are sepperate but they both include parts of eachother as all Chakras do . I then compared this to when Zaheer let go of Pli he had the innear strength to do so. See how being wrong and not wanting to continue and end peacefully are two sepperate things. I didnt cop out of anything. Hate to break to you but it seems your just looking to fight. 

      Based on this argument and all the ones you've made before, any fight is likely to be a short one...

      Letting go of something does not necessarily take willpower.  It did in Aang's case because he did not want to let go of his feeling for Katara.  Turning your back on something you want so much does take a lot of determination and requires you to commit to your decision every step of the way.  

      Problem is, it doesn't really apply to Zaheer.  Zaheer's personal philosophy (which he has subsrcibed to for decades) has a lot of elements of nihilism and stoicism.  He will not fret over things beyond his control, he will accept death as inevitible, and he will not regard personal feelings as anything more than temporary luxuries.  As such Zaheer will have prepared himself for the eventuality of P'li's and all the other Red Lotus members' deaths long beforehand.  Don't forget, he had 13 long years to get used to her not being around.  Letting go of her would not require him to struggle through the same kind of personal, moral dilemma Aang did.  For Zaheer, it would be as easy as flipping a lightswitch--little to no willpower is necessary.  

        Loading editor
    • ....doesn't it take willpower to accept the death of people you love, to not fret over things beyond your control, accept death as inevitable? Particularly the last one. It seems like it would take a lot of mental fortitude to combat such a natural human response, such as not wanting to die. I don't think Zaheer accepted death as inevitable. He could've sacrificed himself to kill Korra, but it was more important to him to survive the tornado. But based on what you asserted regarding his belief system, it seems to back up that he did have willpower.

        Loading editor
    • It would if you hadn't been practicing for 13+ years to shut those responses down.  If you keep at anything long enough, eventually it becomes second nature and you can do it without thinking about it.  But my argument wasn't that Zaheer lacks willpower (I think he does have quite a bit), it was that his ability to fly has nothing to do with willpower.  If you go back in the thread you'll see that thebridge14 is basically arguing "Zaheer can fly, therefore he has a lot of willpower, therefore he could resist Amon's bloodbending."  I'm specifically arguing against the first link in that chain of reasoning.

        Loading editor
    • I think ou guys didn't really understand Zaheer didn't let go of his love for P'li, he just freed himself from wordly things. He certainly didn't o trough the same dilema Aang did because never crossed his mind to do that even if he had 13 years to "get used" he couldn't let go of her, an when she died there was nothing in the world he was atached to. We all lose someone so you should understand that some people mourn for a long time but eventually let it go but they still would be attached to something else. But Zaheer had nothing like that, can you say you could live with no attachment? No people, objects, etc. holding you on earth? I can't and Aang couldn't too.

        Loading editor
    • Samanthademeste wrote:
      Who is the best?

      Good quastion.

        Loading editor
    • I know you guys are all robots but here is the thing:

      He wasn't training during these 13 years to dettach himself from her, if so he wouldn't even be so sad when she died and would be able to fly as soon as he got his airbending. If she didn't die he wouldn't got his flight, and this has nothing to do with willpower but priorities.

        Loading editor
    • @McJedi: Yes, but wouldn't that 13+ years of practice take the willpower. In order to get to a place where something that was difficult becomes second nature you'd have to go through a lot of mental struggle, and it would require a lot of willpower to get there.

      I understand, I just was curious in what you were trying to argue. Your retort makes sense in response to thebridge's thing. But I just wanted to argue that in order to get to the place where it is second nature, he would have to have willpower.

        Loading editor
    • Call it robotic, but if he's hung up on a love in the way that you seem to view it, then that would not be letting go of earthly attachments. Yes, he loved P'li, but it's a fundamentally different understanding of love than what you seem to believe. While their relationship obviously mattered to him, he was not obsesive about it. Like the mentioned fear of death, one could not be afraid of death and be at peace with the inevitability of it, but resist tooth and nail a premature death with willpower "All will die one day...but for me, not today." That would be a mixture of the two concepts working in concert. Whereas "I'm afraid to die" probably lacks willpower and certainly is not letting go of worldly attachments.

      With love, one can acknowledge that the relationship may change, one party in it may die, but that's the reality of it and becoming fixated on not losing that or dwelling on that which cannot be changed (she's dead) is unhealthy and does not help him at all in the situation, and probably actually reduces the ability to love. Also, you need to consider the fact that they were committed to taking on the Avatar and basically every world government, with little more than their merry little band. They mentally prepared themselves to die.

      It is entirely possible to love without being fixated, and that is actually very much in line with what Guru Pathik's chakra training was about and how Zaheer and P'li's relationship apparently was.

      However, and this would get into a whole topic, western romantic love is very different from the kind of love we're talking about in eastern ideas influenced by Taoism and the like.

        Loading editor
    • @Lady Apsalar:  Yes, I agree that at the very beginning it would take a lot of determination, but that's the point of practicing--it gets easier each time so that when shit hits the fan and you have to do it for real you don't have to go through that initial struggle.  At the moment of P'li's death, he had prepared so thoroughly that jumping off the cliff required no affirmative exertion of willpower.  All of the willpower he exerted all those years ago was so far removed from that point in time that it had no appreciable effect on his actions

      @SaitamaBro:  Part of the stoic philosophy that Zaheer seems to adhere to is that you enjoy what you have for as long as you have it, but recognize that the time will come when you no longer have it.  In that respect, his relationship with P'li was an attachment he chose to hold on to until it was not physically possible anymore.  That doesn't mean he will feel no sadness at losing that relationship (though honestly he didn't seem all that sad to me), but it does mean that he will not try to hold on to that relationship, because he knows it would be futile to do so.

        Loading editor
    • I understand what you're saiyng but i'm saiyn that just because they were separated for 13 years doesn't mean he loved her less or that it would be easier to him to dettach himself after her death. You make it look like when he was imprisoned he was only preparing for the especific moment of her death.

      And he did look pretty sad to me when he looked to the blood where she was before exploding, easily one of the saddest faces in the two shows, in my opnion.

        Loading editor
    • Not sure you did understand.  I said that he chose to hang on to his love for her in those 13 years, not that he stopped loving her and then started again when he got out. But the fact remains that they weren't together during that time.  He learned to live without at least the physical aspects of their relationship--in the event of her death he would know that he could live without that particular attachment.  And we know that he spent a good part of his time in prison reflecting on Laghima's poetry, which is all about detachment and the void.  Is it really that far-fetched to think that he would have thought about how that poetry applies to his own life or how he could order his own life to better fit with the poetry's message?

      In regards to him being sad: first there was no blood.  Second, he looked surprised and upset...for all of 8 seconds.  Then it was right back to normal, evil Zaheer face.  And at the end of the episode when Ming-Hua and Ghazan ask where P'li is, his response is very off-hand.  The other two actually looked a little disturbed at how casually he said it.  

      And NONE of this does anything to refute my main point that willpower alone is not a sufficient condition for flight. 

        Loading editor
    • After the most recent episode, I really want a battle between UnaVaatu and Kuvira in her Eva.

        Loading editor
    • It would sure be an interesting match up, but I think it could be hard to evaluate, since UnaVaatu has spirit based powers, and Kuvira's Eva draws its power from the technology which it is built with, and to figure out how spirits and technology interacts could be quite hard. 

      By the way, when you say Eva, are you referring to the giant mech, if that isn't the case ignore the things I have written, but if you in fact are referring to the giant mech why are you calling it Eva? 

        Loading editor
    • I refer to Kuvira's giant mecha as "Eva" because "Eva" is short for "Evangelion" which is the name of the mechas used in an anime called Neon Genesis Evangelion. Bryke have stated that they are fans of the show and that Hei-Bai's monster form is based of the Evas aswell.

      I was just thinking that having two giant things that are controlled by crazy people would be a fun fight, but your interpertation of spirituality versus technology is very interesting. Now I want them to battle more than ever! Spirituality, tradition, and chaos versus technology, modernism, and order. It'd be one crazy fight.

        Loading editor
    • Ok, now I understand why you call it Eva, and now that you mention it I recall reading that fact about Hei-Bai being inspired by Evangelion in The art of the animated series.

      It sure would be a crazy fight, but to make it even more crazy, we could throw In some other giant things from Avatar, like the Unagi, Ran and Shaw, and the sandshark.

        Loading editor
    • We could also add the Serpent, the Mother of Faces, and, of course, Energybent Korra spirit; just to name a few Kaijus of the Avatar world.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, with a world that is as vast as the world of Avatar, we have a great number of match ups for our imaginary duels.

        Loading editor
    • Unalaq with or without Vaatu? If with, then he would own that fight, hands-down.

      If without, I would say Amon.

      Kuvira has demonstrated some pretty damn impressive metalbending skills, but she's no match for Amon. When we first saw Kuvira fight, the first thing she did was immobilize her targets with metal restraints. Yakone, a bloodbender on par with Amon, was able to incapacitate an entire room full of people, including Toph (a metalbender even more skilled than Kuvira), all while he was handcuffed. Even Aang needed the Avatar State to defeat him. Amon was trained by Yakone and is arguably an even better bloodbender, compounded by the fact that he can nullify his opponent's bending abilities. Kuvira might last a bit longer if she had her super-mecha-spirit-cannon death machine, but it would do her little good against more mobile adversaries. I'm guessing that Unalaq would find a way to neutralize any dangerous spiritual energy that the weapon possesses, and Amon would relieve her of her bending soon afterwards.

      Zaheer is a very skilled airbender, and is even deadly enough without his airbending abilities to warrant being locked in a supermax prison. Add to that the fact that he can fly and project himself into the Spirit World, and he is a worthy opponent for anyone. But his only real offensive weapon aside from a few forceful gusts of air is the ability to literally suck their air out of a person's lungs. He would undoubtedly be an elusive target, and he might even come close to suffocating his opponents, but he would have to get close to them in order to do it, and that's not going to work out well for him.

      Unalaq is really the only opponent who can truly be a match for Amon. He is a waterbender, and thus the only one with any hope of a real defense against bloodbending. I would also argue that Unalaq himself may be a bloodbender...perhaps not in the same league with Amon, but still enough to give him a shot at winning the fight. As a former member of the Red Lotus, he has associated with people who were skilled at unorthodox bending styles (lavabending, combustion, etc), so it's reasonable to assume that he has at least a basic grasp of bloodbending, or at least enough to limit Amon's hold on him, much the same way that Amon was able to defend himself against Tarrlok's bloodbending. Aside from that, his conventional waterbending abilities were impressive enough to hold his own against the Avatar and his brother, Tonraq, another exceptional waterbender. But unless Unalaq has an army of spirits he can call upon (which is doubtful if Vaatu is out of the picture), then I see Amon as the only one left standing at the end of this fight.

        Loading editor
    • Meched Kuvira vs Amon would depend on if Amon can bloodbend pass reinforced glass. I find it strange how Lin cannot metalbend till they were inside the mech.

      It would depend on terrain as well. If Amon is in city, Amon can use buildings to attack in close to the windows or freeze Kuvira's mech at close range then use watersprout to jump up to windows to bloodbend. Amon would probably need a swarm of Equalist biplanes tho to distract the mech. In open terrain in a field, Kuvira wins hands down, even with a huge swarm because they are more spottable due to lack of buildings. Even the AS and the Air Nation cannot defeat the Mech.

        Loading editor
    • He would undoubtedly be an elusive target, and he might even come close to suffocating his opponents, but he would have to get close to them in order to do it, and that's not going to work out well for him.

      I seriously doubt he would try that against someone who can bend. He's a very good and experienced martial artist so he knows this would be a mistake and try to make use of his flight advantage.

      or at least enough to limit Amon's hold on him, much the same way that Amon was able to defend himself against Tarrlok's bloodbending.

      I think he can offer some resistance but not that way. If Amon is really trying to bloodbend him he wouldn't be capable of doing much.

        Loading editor
    • If Kuvira would be allowed to use her giant mech, then it wouldn't really be a battle between benders, but a battle over which character has the most power and assets. However if she would be allowed to use her mech, then how much assets would the other characters be allowed to use? Would Amon be allowed to use his army of equalists? Would Unalaq be allowed to summon dark spirits? Would Zaheer be allowed to battle with all the other Red Lotus members? Anyway if we go back to Amon vs Kuvira it would be an interesting fight if they both were to use all of their equipment and soldiers. Kuvira is a skilled leader, and clearly has the biggest army and most equipment. Amon on the other hand is also a skilled leader, however he has a smaller "army" without a single bender, but they use very advanced gadgets and are well versed in hit and run tactics, which have been shown to have great effect against large armies. Nevertheless, I would consider Amon's greatest weapons to be, his ideology (which may have a harder time getting embraced by Kuvira's army, since it mostly consists of benders), his manipulation skills, and his ability to invoke fear into people. So as I said an interesting match up which could play out quite differently depending on the circumstances.

      Now on to Amon vs Unalaq, Unalaq sure is a powerful waterbender, but just as SaitamaBro implied, I don't think that Unalaq has the power to resist Amon's bloodbending. The reason for this is that if we consider Katara (who is one of the most powerful waterbenders in the world), she is the only one that has been shown (except Amon and Aang) to break free from the grip of bloodbending, and the person that bloodbent her was Hama, so if we compare Amon's bloodbending with Hama's, it should be quite clear that you can't break free from Amon's bloodbending grip even if you are a strong waterbending master. Another thing I would like to point out is that even though Amon mostly relies on bloodbending, he is actually a very strong waterbender, we get proof of this when we see that he has the ability to perform a water spout (which is considered a master level waterbending move). However even if Amon is strong, does he have what it takes to fight against waterbenders like Unalaq? I would say yes, because bloodbending is considered the "ultimate form" of waterbending, and Amon is an extraordinary bloodbender, and therefore I think that he would also be a an at least great waterbender (maybe a little rusty, since he rarely used waterbending in his later life).

        Loading editor
    • Even the AS and the Air Nation cannot defeat the Mech.

      Couldn't Korra use the AS and open a hole under the megazord? Kyoshi separated the island from the EK, this can't be too dificult.

      Kuvira and the mech is too strong but i think the Red Lotus team can beat her. But then again we could as well put Unavaatu but it would be way too op an Amon would be in a disadvantage against everyone but the RL.

      Amon could probably beat Unalaq even if he didn't show as much waterbending, bloodbending  is the key here. If we consider Unalaq can resist bloodbending Amon can still use it to create openings so it won't make any difference. Amon and Zaheer are the favorites.

      What we should consider is: will they be fighting all at the same time or we should consider them fighting 1-1? If they're all throw at the place and have to fight each other we can also consider some alliances.

        Loading editor
    • Simply put, bending powers alone:

      Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira > Unalaq.

      Unalaq is obviously the worst since besides bending random spirits, all he can do is skilled waterbending, which is not a rare thing. Kuvira is slightly better due to her more creative fighting style and swift movement, but her and Unalaq are both merely skilled benders but do not have special bending powers. Now on the next level: Amon and Zaheer. They both unlocked a never before seen usage of their respective bending arts. Amon learned bloodbending without a full moon and using it to take away bending; Zaheer unlocked flight as well as breathbending (what he did to the Earth Queen). But I would have to give it to Amon because his bending powers are literally so overpowered. His range is way greater than any of the other three, so if the other three villains start attacking, they would not even get close because Amon would literally just bloodbend them to his will. Zaheer might be able to dodge Amon's control with his flying but if we put them in an indoor arena, then even he would not be able to defeat Amon because of the limited space.

      Now comparing the villains with their finale form (basically their most powerful form in their respective times in the series):

      UnaVaatu > Kuvira with Colossus > Flying Zaheer > Amon

      This time Zaheer and Amon are in the lower league because honestly they didn't get much of a boost in the finale. Amon didn't get any boost at all as he merely had bloodbending. Zaheer was a bit more powerful with his flying. But I have to give the most powerful titles to UnaVaatu and Colossus Kuvira, since both of them utilize extremely deadly Vaatu beams. In this respect, UnaVaatu is more powerful than Colossus Kuvira since he is literally Vaatu himself. Furthermore, Kuvira needs to bend her Colossus with extreme strength, something that will eventually wear out in battle; plus her Colossus has been demonstrated to be quite vulnerable and immobile. She also has limited spiritual energy. But UnaVaatu being the literal incarnation of evil himself can shoot energy beams like water guns, fly around the face of earth, and as a spirit, become literally unbendable, unkillable, and infinitely mobile. So I think UnaVaatu would simply destroy Amon with a finger and dodge Kuvira's Colossus attacks with his spirit kite thing and simply find a way to tip it over and destroy it. Zaheer with flying might have some more mobility but in the end, it's like hitting an egg against a giant boulder.

        Loading editor
    • ELEMENTAL UNITY
      ELEMENTAL UNITY removed this reply because:
      It is a previous version of my comment, which was created when I edited my old comment.
      02:37, December 23, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Even the AS and the Air Nation cannot defeat the Mech.

      Couldn't Korra use the AS and open a hole under the megazord? Kyoshi separated the island from the EK, this can't be too dificult.

      Kuvira and the mech is too strong but i think the Red Lotus team can beat her. But then again we could as well put Unavaatu but it would be way too op an Amon would be in a disadvantage against everyone but the RL.

      Amon could probably beat Unalaq even if he didn't show as much waterbending, bloodbending  is the key here. If we consider Unalaq can resist bloodbending Amon can still use it to create openings so it won't make any difference. Amon and Zaheer are the favorites.

      What we should consider is: will they be fighting all at the same time or we should consider them fighting 1-1? If they're all throw at the place and have to fight each other we can also consider some alliances.

      If they were to fight all at the same time, then Amon would probably do the same thing as if he only faced one of them, which is to use his bloodbending to incapacitate them all, and then remove the bending from all the others one by one, so it wouldn't be much time for alliances or even a battle, which means that in this particular case it wouldn't matter if they face each other 1v1 or all at the same time (provided that none of the other combatants can resist his bloodbending). 

        Loading editor
    • Poet Laghima wrote:
      Simply put, bending powers alone:

      Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira > Unalaq.

      Unalaq is obviously the worst since besides bending random spirits, all he can do is skilled waterbending, which is not a rare thing. Kuvira is slightly better due to her more creative fighting style and swift movement, but her and Unalaq are both merely skilled benders but do not have special bending powers. Now on the next level: Amon and Zaheer. They both unlocked a never before seen usage of their respective bending arts. Amon learned bloodbending without a full moon and using it to take away bending; Zaheer unlocked flight as well as breathbending (what he did to the Earth Queen). But I would have to give it to Amon because his bending powers are literally so overpowered. His range is way greater than any of the other three, so if the other three villains start attacking, they would not even get close because Amon would literally just bloodbend them to his will. Zaheer might be able to dodge Amon's control with his flying but if we put them in an indoor arena, then even he would not be able to defeat Amon because of the limited space.

      Now comparing the villains with their finale form (basically their most powerful form in their respective times in the series):

      UnaVaatu > Kuvira with Colossus > Flying Zaheer > Amon

      This time Zaheer and Amon are in the lower league because honestly they didn't get much of a boost in the finale. Amon didn't get any boost at all as he merely had bloodbending. Zaheer was a bit more powerful with his flying. But I have to give the most powerful titles to UnaVaatu and Colossus Kuvira, since both of them utilize extremely deadly Vaatu beams. In this respect, UnaVaatu is more powerful than Colossus Kuvira since he is literally Vaatu himself. Furthermore, Kuvira needs to bend her Colossus with extreme strength, something that will eventually wear out in battle; plus her Colossus has been demonstrated to be quite vulnerable and immobile. She also has limited spiritual energy. But UnaVaatu being the literal incarnation of evil himself can shoot energy beams like water guns, fly around the face of earth, and as a spirit, become literally unbendable, unkillable, and infinitely mobile. So I think UnaVaatu would simply destroy Amon with a finger and dodge Kuvira's Colossus attacks with his spirit kite thing and simply find a way to tip it over and destroy it. Zaheer with flying might have some more mobility but in the end, it's like hitting an egg against a giant boulder.

      If you say that you consider bending powers alone, then why do you allow Kuvira to use her mech, then (as I said in a previous post) we should allow Amon to battle with his group of equalists, and Zaheer to battle with the other members of the Red Lotus. Furthermore, I don't think that Zaheer's flying ability would allow him to defeat Amon, since I don't think it matters if he moves very fast, because Amon would still be able to blood bend him, but suppose that for some strange reason Amon wouldn't be able to bloodbend Zaheer, then he could use his regular waterbending. Moreover, even though Kuvira's Colossus is enormous, and very powerful you must consider its purpose, which is to defeat great armies, and conquer nations, which would mean that it isn't very effective against single persons, such as Amon, and definitely Zaheer, because of his amazing mobility. So I actually, don't think that Kuvira with her Colossus would be able to defeat Amon or Zaheer (if the battle is on a open field, then Amon would probably be toasted, but she would never catch Zaheer). However, Amon, and Zaheer wouldn't be able to defeat Kuvira with her Colussus either, unless they have some assistance, or if Amon manages to enter the Colossus, or if Amon can bloodbend Kuvira from outside of the Colossus. 

        Loading editor
    • Flying Zaheer vs Amon would depend on the range of Amon's bloodbending grip and how impressive his waterbending is.

      I think the spirit ray is fast enough to get Zaheer. It has relative speed compared to the water beam Korra shot at Zaheer to freeze his leg that spanned miles. Plus Kuvira can move it like a laser pointer if she misses.

        Loading editor
    • Warriormind556 wrote:
      Flying Zaheer vs Amon would depend on the range of Amon's bloodbending grip and how impressive his waterbending is.

      I think the spirit ray is fast enough to get Zaheer. It has relative speed compared to the water beam Korra shot at Zaheer to freeze his leg that spanned miles. Plus Kuvira can move it like a laser pointer if she misses.

      Yes it depends on Amon's range, and how impressive his waterbending is, I personally think that he has enough range and skill to defeat Zaheer, but if you want to be convinced I advice you to look further up in this discussion where you can find very many posts that is discussing who would win between Amon and Zaheer.

      The important fact with the spirit ray is if Kuvira can move it around as fast as Zaheer flies, if not I don't think that she could hit Zaheer, since it would probably be almost impossible to get a direct hit on Zaheer.

        Loading editor
    • Nope. The laser was dodged numerous times by people way slower tha flying Zaheer, and it takes time to redirect.

        Loading editor
    • Mainly at close ranges where its hard to point around fast. But eventually Zaheer will tire out and get hit. Its not like Zaheer's airbending can break the reinforced windows.

        Loading editor
    • No, it's slower than a person moving her arms so i doubt Zaheer, who is much faster than the airbenders with bat clothes, couldn't dodge it even tired. And it would take time to tire him and Kuvira doesn't have unlimited shots.

      Now, are we seriously considering this fight? I mean don't you guys think this is a little too much for Zaheer?

        Loading editor
    • Uh Zaheer getting hit by waterbending(which moves slower) is clear proof he will get hit eventually. And the ammount of airbenders killed is probably substantial. When Korra said "get the wounded to Asami's office" the ammount of airbenders missing is great.

      Yeah, only UnaVaatu can take on Collossus.

        Loading editor
    • He gets his foot iced runing towards Korra in the AS. Unless he's trying to take Kuvira down as fast as he can he can just fly aroud the mecha and it will hardly even aim at him.

        Loading editor
    • Kuvira's aim was horrible with the spirit cannon. She could not hit moving and even some stationary targets well. Unless hindered by something else, Zaheer can fly effortlessly, easily levitating or flying miles away instead of taking an airship. It isn't apparently any more likely for him to get tired from just flying than Kuvira is likely to tire from bending the controls of the colossus.

      With his crew, I have to believe they'd find a way to destroy the colossus. But in a straight up 1v1 I don't think he can pull it off. That said, he can't kill her, she can't kill him.

        Loading editor
    • @ElementalUnity...

      I don't follow your logic concerning your statement about Unalaq resisting Amon's bloodbending. You mentioned that Katara was able to do it when she fought Hama, which would indicate that a highly-skilled waterbender can indeed neutralize a bloodbender's grip on them. How is Katara able to beat Hama, but Unalaq is not able to defeat Amon? I can accept the fact that Amon is a far superior bloodbender than Hama, but I would also postulate that the older and more experienced Unalaq is a far superior waterbender than Katara was when she was a teenage amateur. Perhaps I misunderstood your statement?

      @PoetLaghima...

      While I agree with you that Unalaq probably could not prevail against Amon in a mano-a-mano street fight, I would very much disagree that he is the worst in terms of bending ability. This is a man who was able to hold his own in a fight with the Avatar, and he defeated his exceptionally-skilled waterbender brother in combat (granted with a little help from his kids, but the battle on both sides was pretty impressive).

      I would argue that, while Unalaq would have a hard time taking down Kuvira, he would still stand a good chance against Zaheer. Flying is a great way to get away from a fight, but not to win one. And I would imagine that he can't use his suffocation technique from a long distance, meaning that he would have to get close to his opponent to kill them...not a good idea against any of these guys.

        Loading editor
    • Hama was a much weaker bloodbender than Amon. Consider she could only bloodbend on full moons, whereas Amon could bloodbend every day. Katara was also a bloodbender when Hama hit her with bloodbending, does it require bloodbending skill to do? Does it require physical strength?

      I'm not so sure I'd say Unalaq was so much better than end of series Katara, she was already acknowledged as a master waterbender in a short amount of time and had some impressive feats even defeating a Sozin's Comet enhanced Azula (even if she was insane).

        Loading editor
    • I dont think blood bending without a full moon has anything to do with power more so with genetics or however bending is passed down, Im sure Katara was just as powerfull a blood bender as Yakone or Amon yet she could only use it durring a full moon.

        Loading editor
    • No she wasn't.

      And clearly Amon being able to bloodbend without a full moon is because he is a more powerfull bender, Katara and Hama were able to use it only in full moons because that's when they're at their strongest thanks to the boost in power they receive from the moon so until there's another reason for them not being able to bloodbend at all times Amon is a more powerfull bender, maybe not better but still more powerfull.

        Loading editor
    • No Avatar Steve, you did not misunderstand my statement, and Weltall8000 basically told you the clarification of my reasoning which I would have brought up. A thing I would like to add to Weltall8000's statement to make it even more clear how much better Amon is at bloodbending compared to Hama, is that Amon can bloodbend without needing to move any parts of his body (aka psychic bloodbending) which is an amazing feat, if we consider how surprised Aang was that Bumi was able to bend with his head.

      While I am at it, I would also like to say in regards to previous posts that if Zaheer for some reason would get tired when he evades the spirit beam fired from Kuvira's mech, then he could probably hide by grabbing the lower back of the mech, since the mech will probably be unable to reach Zaheer with its arms when he hides there. 

        Loading editor
    • Well the mech hit it's own back in the show right? But that's only considering Zaheer gets tired of flying with i doubt because he said Laghima never touched the ground after he discovered flying so he were doing it 24/7.

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      Well the mech hit it's own back in the show right? But that's only considering Zaheer gets tired of flying with i doubt because he said Laghima never touched the ground after he discovered flying so he were doing it 24/7.

      Well, even if the mech could touch its own back, I am thinking that Zaheer would move around a lot making it very hard for the mech to hit him, since it has no way of seeing him, and I don't think the mech can feel where Zaheer is either, so therefore it would be like killing a fast invisible fly. However, if Zaheer will not get tired, then my comment is kind of irrelevant. 

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      No she wasn't.

      And clearly Amon being able to bloodbend without a full moon is because he is a more powerfull bender, Katara and Hama were able to use it only in full moons because that's when they're at their strongest thanks to the boost in power they receive from the moon so until there's another reason for them not being able to bloodbend at all times Amon is a more powerfull bender, maybe not better but still more powerfull.

      I agree with you that Katara wasn't as good at bloodbending as Amon, Tarrlok or Yakone (but she maybe could have been if she had practiced like them), however I don't think that we can say that Amon is a more powerful bender. Amon is definitely a more powerful bloodbender than Katara, and a good waterbender, but we can't be sure that he surpasses Katara (or any other notable waterbender) in terms of regular waterbending.  

        Loading editor
    • I think Zaheer was the best because what makes him different is that he hadn't the single intention to gain power. He wished for the people of the world to be free.

      Next would be Kuvira because her role as a villain was sort of forced upon her, and I feel she meant the best for the Earth Kingdom, not to mention we've never seen so much pure emotional breakdown with her when she told Korra about her experiences being an orphan. I really love Kuvira. In terms of character development, I personally loved hers the most out of all of the villains. For some it may seem hard to believe because it wasn't paced but that's what I love about it. And I truly believe she loved Baatar Jr. and wanted to rule the Earth Empire by his side. But, she also knew love isn't without sacrifice.

      Third for me would be Unalaq because I love his character. It was fun watching him go mad. I mean, he was the only villain of the four with children and a spouse. Kuvira was going to marry Baatar Jr. But anyway, he wasn't overpowered with bloodbending, and I favor his special spiritbending over bloodbending.

      Now, you may be extremely mad with me for putting Amon in fourth, but I did this because I hated what he did to his brother, even though he had to, and I felt that with bloodbending, you're not giving the opposing threat a chance to defend themselves and show that they might be a formidable opponent. I felt that with bloodbending as good as his, you overpower your character. Look, some people may really think that he is cool that way. Sometimes, that's how I think about it, but now, I'm not loving it. Everyone has different takes on this, but this is mine.

        Loading editor
    • Well, you are free to think what you want, and I hope that no one gets mad at you for thinking like this. The only thing which made me react when I read your comment was that you ranked these characters based on who you like the most and not which one is the better fighter, you see I always interpreted this post as, discussing which character that would win in a battle against the other, but after looking at the original post, I guess that your interpretation of this post actually isn't wrong.

        Loading editor
    • ELEMENTAL UNITY wrote:

      SaitamaBro wrote:
      No she wasn't.

      And clearly Amon being able to bloodbend without a full moon is because he is a more powerfull bender, Katara and Hama were able to use it only in full moons because that's when they're at their strongest thanks to the boost in power they receive from the moon so until there's another reason for them not being able to bloodbend at all times Amon is a more powerfull bender, maybe not better but still more powerfull.

      I agree with you that Katara wasn't as good at bloodbending as Amon, Tarrlok or Yakone (but she maybe could have been if she had practiced like them), however I don't think that we can say that Amon is a more powerful bender. Amon is definitely a more powerful bloodbender than Katara, and a good waterbender, but we can't be sure that he surpasses Katara (or any other notable waterbender) in terms of regular waterbending.  

      But didn't sokka call yakone blood bending ability unique rather than extremely powerfull. Plus it was stated that the ability was passed down from yakone to his sons, so I don't believe tarrlok at the age of about 12 when he was blood bending the yak with out a full moon was a more powerful blood bender than katara who couldn't use it during a full moon. Therefore the ability is based more on genetics than power

        Loading editor
    • Only because he called it unique doesn't mean it's not powerfull. Yakone also said his family is stronger, or his blood i don't remember well.

      And the only thing we know for sure is that bloodbending is possible at the full moon because of the power boost, they are more powerfull = they can bloodbend. Hama probably tried for all those years to use it without a full moon but couldn't. Now maybe Katara could achieve Tarrlok level of bloodbending with training but she would never train this skill so we can't know.

        Loading editor
    • ELEMENTAL UNITY wrote: Well, you are free to think what you want, and I hope that no one gets mad at you for thinking like this. The only thing which made me react when I read your comment was that you ranked these characters based on who you like the most and not which one is the better fighter, you see I always interpreted this post as, discussing which character that would win in a battle against the other, but after looking at the original post, I guess that your interpretation of this post actually isn't wrong.

      I am just saying, trying not to be biased, but I'm not just basing them on how they fight because Kuvira's only weapon wasn't her bending. She was a great villain for her manipulation, her spirit weapon, and her determination. In a fight, yes, Zaheer would win. Then would be Amon, perhaps Kuvira, then Unalaq, but I also based my comment on characterization and the complexity of each character. Compared to the other characters I saw Amon as the least complex, which may be hard to believe, but Zaheer was so calm yet sinister. Kuvira expressed her great sadness openly with the protagonist which I've never seen in a villain in LoK, and I placed Unalaq in third because he had a family and yet was willing to throw it all away for power, similar to Ozai. Not to mention he was an incredibly skilled waterbender without his special ability. Amon, while there is nothing wrong with him, just had a sad origin. The story itself is complex, but it was predictable that he had a sad background. When Kuvira revealed how she felt as an orphan, it was a punch in my face. That's why I rated them like I did.

        Loading editor
    • Quite a few of you seem to be drawing the parallel between the fight between Hama & Katara as a glimpse into a potential matchup between Amon and Unalaq, with most people believing that Amon would win that fight in short order. While I don't dispute that conclusion - I in fact agree with it, and were I to place a wager on it, would bet in Amon's favor - I do disagree with the assumption that Unalaq wouldn't stand a fighting chance. I realize that analyzing Katara vs Hama in relation to Unalaq vs Amon isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison (being that there are different skill levels involved). Amon is clearly the superior bloodbender in comparison to Hama. She may be the O.G. bloodbender, but he doesn't need a full moon, he doesn't need physical motion, he can take away bending, he is younger and in better fighting shape...by any measure, Amon takes the cake in that department. Pretty much all of you would agree with me on that part, if for no other reason because it is just common sense.

      Where I differ from many of you is the claim that Katara (at least in her younger years) is a superior waterbender than Unalaq. I know there will be plenty of people who will disagree with me on this, but I would argue that Katara, although an accomplished bender even as a teenager and much more so later in her life, is not regarded as such because of her combat skills. She has been noted as being the greatest HEALER in the world. That's no small accolade, to be sure, and it would certainly take someone with great ability to achieve this. But fighting and healing are two very different things. Yes, Katara demonstrated some pretty outstanding abilities even at a young age. But her greatest combat victory we've seen was over Azula, and it was just as much a result of her quick wits, resourcefulness, and ability to take advantage of her opponent's mental instability as much as it was her bending ability that won her that fight. She certainly could have improved her martial skills as she aged, but the comparison I draw was her capabilities at the time she fought Hama.

      Unalaq, on the other hand, is a man who not only has several decades of top-notch training under his belt, but who has also trained with the best that the Red Lotus has to offer. And anyone who has seen Season 3 of LOK (all of us) knows how much of a bonus that can be in a fight. He undoubtedly has at least some bloodbending training, which would mean that he can at least put up somewhat of a defense against another bloodbender. Katara and Korra had no bloodbending training at all, yet were still able to fight their way out of bloodbending grips. I'm reasonably confident that Unalaq could do the same with Amon, at least temporarily. I'm not saying that Amon wouldn't ultimately prevail over Unalaq, because I think he would...I'm just saying that the fight wouldn't be as one-sided as you all seem to think it would be.

        Loading editor
    • Just for clarification, if you're referring to my comment, I wasn't making the case that Katara was better than Unalaq, merely that she wasn't way below him.

      That all said, she was comparable to a number of  the masters of her time as a teenager.

      He doesn't get feats for the other Red Lotus members, it also doesn't help that he split off from them. Part of the draw to the Red Lotus crew was their teamwork, they were effectively a Team Anti-Avatar.

      Nothing at all demonstrates that Unalaq has any experience with bloodbending. I'm not saying it is entirely impossible that he did, but that would have to be established for us to reasonably cede him that.

      In Korra's case, she seemed to be struggling with a staggered Amon, it seemed like he was trying to manipulate her upper body when she kicked a windblast with her feet which surprised him. Korra may not have even properly "resisted" the bloodbending, rather Amon didn't have a full on hold over her.

        Loading editor
    • As Unalaq have more bending feats let's say he's the better bender and let's also say he can resist Amon's bloodbending.

      Now, can Amon waterbend while he's bloodbending? I don't remember seeing that but if he can he have the upper hand and the fight would be pretty much one sided. I mean, could Unalaq bend as well if he was slaping his own face?(i'd totally do it but Amon would probably just twist his arm) Even if he can resist Amon can use it to create an opening and attack him with waterbending and even chi blocking. AHTATATATATATATA You're already equalized.

      I just can't see anyone besides Zaheer having a fair match with Amon, his bloodbending is too much for them.

        Loading editor
    • In the one I like the best.

      Zaheer > Kuvira = Amon > Unalaq

      In who I think is the strongest.

      Unavatuu > Kurvira with spirit weapon > Amon > Zaheer > Kuvira without spirit weapon > Unalaq

        Loading editor
    • SaitamaBro wrote: Only because he called it unique doesn't mean it's not powerfull. Yakone also said his family is stronger, or his blood i don't remember well.

      And the only thing we know for sure is that bloodbending is possible at the full moon because of the power boost, they are more powerfull = they can bloodbend. Hama probably tried for all those years to use it without a full moon but couldn't. Now maybe Katara could achieve Tarrlok level of bloodbending with training but she would never train this skill so we can't know.

      My point is that I don't think someone can just blood bend with out a full moon, The ability is something your born with.

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:

      SaitamaBro wrote: Only because he called it unique doesn't mean it's not powerfull. Yakone also said his family is stronger, or his blood i don't remember well.

      And the only thing we know for sure is that bloodbending is possible at the full moon because of the power boost, they are more powerfull = they can bloodbend. Hama probably tried for all those years to use it without a full moon but couldn't. Now maybe Katara could achieve Tarrlok level of bloodbending with training but she would never train this skill so we can't know.

      My point is that I don't think someone can just blood bend with out a full moon, The ability is something your born with.

      I myself think that benders are born with different "maximum power levels" which are achieved with extensive training, what power level you are gifted with depends on spirituality and mailorder (mailorder means that Bryke doesn't want to reveal the mechanics behind bending inheritance yet). So therefore I believe that even though Katara or other waterbenders may have higher "maximum power levels" than Amon, they haven't trained their bloodbending skills, and that is why they can't bloodbend without the full moon. However, my statement brings up an important question which is, are your ability to resist bloodbending dependent on your bloodbending skills (current bloodbending power level) or your general waterbending skills (current power level)? My answer to this question would be that your ability to resist bloodbending depends on your bloodbending skill and not your general waterbending skill, since you can't bloodbend without knowing the bloodbending skill, then you shouldn't be able to resist bloodbending without knowing the skill. With this answer to the question, Amon can be a more powerful bloodbender without automatically being a more powerful waterbender.

        Loading editor
    • I still think he's a more powerfull bender but this makes sense.

      Just hope this doesn't become a topic about power levels and if they make sense or not.

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer is spiritually stronger than Unalaq, and airbending is the one thing Amon can't dodge. On the other hand, it depends on if they're fighting in front of Amon's supporters or not. If Amon doesn't have to keep up the propaganda, than everyone else loses because they can't block bloodbending. Kuvira is a non-issue, She's a great metalbender, but we've seen how well they can do against chi blockers. Unalaq is also underwhelming, his only real claim to fame was his ability to "calm spirits". And if the others don't get their supporters then neither should he.

        Loading editor
    • Amon was indeed hit by airbending...when he didn't think Korra was capable of bending anymore, he wasn't really paying attention to her, then got blasted in a narrow corridor where he couldn't really evade. Sure, in those circumstances, he didn't do so well dodging the airbending. If he's in an open field and knows his opponent isn't locked out from bending? Probably won't go down like that.

        Loading editor
    • Also hit by Tenzin.

        Loading editor
    • Oh right, in front of his minions while facing six benders. Forgot about that one, seeing as he was right back on them like white on rice.

        Loading editor
    • Probably why I mentioned that it mattered where the fight was taking place. *taps mic* is this thing fcking on?

        Loading editor
    • dude ur making too many excuses for Amon the fact is he's not invincible. 

        Loading editor
    • amon > zaheer > Kuvira > > > > > > > Unalaq

      Amon was a fantastic antagonist, he was incredibly powerful, but not inexplicably so and very relateable. He represented a real problem that as a viewer I sympathized and even agreed with. He essentially just wanted equal representation for what he felt was an opressed lower class. Whats more, he lead a (somewhat) peaceful rebellion. Rather than kill his enemies he jailed them and took away they're bending. He also possesed a fear factor that no other atagonist had. Amon was terrifying, for Korra and everyone he encountered.

      Zaheer is very close 2nd for me, possessing some of the best charcertistics of Amon. To me the only reason Amon stands above him is I have no idea why Zaheer did everything he did. What motivated him? We got a backstory for Amon, Kuvira, and even Unalaq, but not Zaheer. Apart from this he was a fantastic character that drove the show to a much darker place than it had ever been to before.

      Kuvira, despite being so low on this list was another fantastic character. She had everything Amon and Zaheer had, they just seem to inch past her in one way or another. Overall she is still one of my favorite atagonists from the franchise.

      Unalaq. Yea not much to say about him. He was a decent character untill he went batshit crazy and pure evil.

        Loading editor
    • Unalaq was an homage to Ozai. ^

        Loading editor
    • He wasn't at liberty to overtly use his bending. And he just avoided 3 attacks (two of them being airbending that took out his subordinates that were standing right next to him) he was landing from dodging the fireblast from Mako as he was hit by the airblast, which he still managed to block. He also dodged lightning from behind just moments earlier too. Airbending has only struck him when the deck is stacked against him, either with his opponent having a serious element of surprise or his self imposed restriction on not overtly bending in front of allies/and being ganged up on.

        Loading editor
    • Great, so Weltall8000's vote is for Amon. Anyone else?

        Loading editor
    • dude ur making too many excuses for Amon the fact is he's not invincible.

      Indeed, he isn't, but the fact remains, he was never properly defeated and never fought at his full power on screen. Zaheer can fly and is a good bender, but its absurd to act like Zaheer beats Amon. All he could really do is not fight him and fly away (if he's already very far away to avoid the bloodbending) to force a draw, he can't really fight him.

      Great, so Weltall8000's vote is for Amon. Anyone else?

      Just fyi, due to your first comment on the matter, I thought you were referring to when he faced Korra in the hallway, as you excluded when he was in front of minions (which would be the earlier fight involving Tenzin). Then when you brought up Tenzin, as if that means Zaheer could easily hit Amon ("airbending, the one thing he can't dodge") which is why I then talked about the fight that you implicitly excluded in which he was hit.

        Loading editor
    • Ok Unalaq is clearly the most powerful when fused with Vaatuu but are we talking about just unalaq or the dark avatar? Zaheers spiritual capabilities are off the chart so that has to play a factor into this. Zaheers speed is a match for a poisoned avatar state but that's still impressive considering yakone got wrecked in one second after aang enters the avatar state. Amon could never keep up with zaheers speed if he dive bombed him at full speed he wouldn't have a chance to react. Remember korra beat Amon with basic air bending. My vote is to zaheer if unalaq isn't with Vaatuu.

        Loading editor
    • Remembering Zaheer was faster than Korra in the AS(even considering the poison it's still a great feat).

      The deciding factor would be Amon bloodbending's reach. Some people said he couldn't react to Zaheer speed but i doubt it, while he's not the best fighter he has high level agility and Zaheer is not fast enough for him to not be able to react to him.

        Loading editor
    • Since Amon is able to dodge lightning while facing away from it, I think that he has a good enough reaction time to stop or dodge Zaheer while he performs a high speed dive from the air.

      Now regarding your statement that Korra was able to defeat Amon with basic airbending, Amon wasn't defeated he was just forced to flee, because his identity as a bender was revealed, and the most likely reason why Korra was able to land the airbending attacks on Amon in the first place was because she surprised him. 

        Loading editor
    • Just thinking now, Amon can also fly using bloodbending so distance isn't a issue.

        Loading editor
    • Are you suggesting he can levitate by bloodbending himself? O.o

        Loading editor
    • Amon could just Bloodbend everyone if he wanted to.

        Loading editor
    • I don't think Amon can fly (but it would have been awesome if he could, but maybe a bit too overpowered) by using bloodbending, because earthbenders can't fly with the aid of earthbending, nevertheless he can still make everyone else fly, and he can use a waterspout to travel quite fast in water (or on land if he has enough water available). 

        Loading editor
    • I always tought he bloodbent himself to stop his brother bloodbending, but even if this is not the case he can probably bloodbend himself.. Earthbenders can make rocks float, couldn't they just jump in them afterwards?

        Loading editor
    • I don't say that he can't bloodbend himself, because I also think that he did something like bloodbending himself in order to brake free from Tarrlok's bloodbending, but I don't think he can fly by using bloodbending. Regarding the earthbenders, I don't say that I have a good explination as to why earthbenders can't fly, but if they could fly, why have they never done it? 

        Loading editor
    • The same reason they could never metalbend before Toph.

      He can make people levitate so he can fly i guess.

        Loading editor
    • But let us say that Amon can fly, but does Amon know that he can fly?

        Loading editor
    • He discovered a way to block chi permanently without letting people incapable of moving so he's probably creative enough to think of that.

        Loading editor
    • If he was creative enough to think of it, he would have done it.

        Loading editor
    • He never needed to do it.

        Loading editor
    • No. 

        Loading editor
    • Anyway as to who is best rather than strongest

      Amon- was never really fleshed out as a character, A little bit with tarrlok but why did he all of a sudden hate benders and start the equalist revolution after he left his dad and brother? Amon felt rushed in general

      Unalaq- He's basically your stereotypical I'm evil villain, his motives were what to spread darkness, I liked the concept of a dark avatar but I wished he and vaatu had more conversation and planning prior to fusing. Unalaq was pretty boring and generic .

      Zaheer- Complete badass philosophical extremist. An evil airbender the first in the series. What makes Zaheer so great is that he truly wants what's best for the world that and of coarse his epic philosophical speeches. Zaheer adds a lot of grey to the villian mold. Zaheer is just great even at the end he's like Korras therapist.

      Kuvira- A pretty cool concept of a nega korra plus Zelda Williams does a great job but she just felt rushed especially the whole orphan part it should have been explained a little more. Plus the concept of humanizing her at the end felt a bit weak. Up until that point she basically had no redeeming qualities she was a flat out villian from the start minus saving Korras dad.

      Over all zaheer is my favorite

        Loading editor
    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Anyway as to who is best rather than strongest

      Amon- was never really fleshed out as a character, A little bit with tarrlok but why did he all of a sudden hate benders and start the equalist revolution after he left his dad and brother? Amon felt rushed in general

      Unalaq- He's basically your stereotypical I'm evil villain, his motives were what to spread darkness, I liked the concept of a dark avatar but I wished he and vaatu had more conversation and planning prior to fusing. Unalaq was pretty boring and generic .

      Zaheer- Complete badass philosophical extremist. An evil airbender the first in the series. What makes Zaheer so great is that he truly wants what's best for the world that and of coarse his epic philosophical speeches. Zaheer adds a lot of grey to the villian mold. Zaheer is just great even at the end he's like Korras therapist.

      Kuvira- A pretty cool concept of a nega korra plus Zelda Williams does a great job but she just felt rushed especially the whole orphan part it should have been explained a little more. Plus the concept of humanizing her at the end felt a bit weak. Up until that point she basically had no redeeming qualities she was a flat out villian from the start minus saving Korras dad.

      Over all zaheer is my favorite

      I will say that an abusive maniachal father is enough of a reason for me, but I've already given my opinons. Kudos on the best strongest destinction.

        Loading editor
    • thanks

        Loading editor
    • Remembering Zaheer was faster than Korra in the AS(even considering the poison it's still a great feat).

      The deciding factor would be Amon bloodbending's reach. Some people said he couldn't react to Zaheer speed but i doubt it, while he's not the best fighter he has high level agility and Zaheer is not fast enough for him to not be able to react to him.

       Early on in the fight, Korra overtook Zaheer while flying away from her. Amon- was never really fleshed out as a character, A little bit with tarrlok but why did he all of a sudden hate benders and start the equalist revolution after he left his dad and brother? Amon felt rushed in general I don't totally disagree, but they explained that he felt bending was often used to oppress others. His father made bending really suck and taught him to use it for revenge and manipulation of others. Bending was a pretty negative thing with his early experiences with it (once they started going on "hunts" with pops during the full moon).

        Loading editor
    • My only problem is why tarrlok turned out to be a proud and confident bender when he seemed more ashamed of being a blood bender than Amon did. Tarrlok didn't want to blood bend the animals they trained on yet he seemed to have some pride about being one. Anway that's the problem I had with Amon the abuse by his dad wasn't shown enough but that's more on only having a 12 episode season rather than poor writing. I guess to be fair unalaq or zaheers reasons for being the way they were, were never really explained either.

        Loading editor
    • honestly that was my biggest problem with zaheer that we never really get a personal reason, or even something that might have snowballed into a resaon (what we got for amon). Though I did apreciate that the red lotus was a reaction to how terrible the white lotus had become. 

        Loading editor
    • If I had to pick secondary antagonists of the Books, like, Tarlok, Varrick, Aiwei, Bataar Jr., I'd rank them, and I mean like in terms of being a villain:

      Varrick- He did not need manipulation or threats to sway people simply because of his deceptive nature.

      Tarlok- Tarlok was an incredibly manipulative person, and although his bloodbending could use some work, I truly rank Tarlok as number 2 because of his character development. It's almost as if he sort of dissolved into the role of secondary antagonist.

      Bataar Jr.- It was fun yet sad watching him have his heart broken, and it's hard looking at a truly genuine character be hurt like that. (Inside the parenthses are my personal not taken closely feelings about Bataar: I don't think he was brainwashed. He's like Snape from Harry Potter, who kept everything in. I think he truly felt like he was living in his father's shadow, but it took Kuvira to get him to accept it and feel open about it.)

      Aiwei- Aiwei was way too fathomable when it came time to get down to business, while the Red Lotus was trying to abduct Korra in the Terror Within. While I had little to no reason to think he was a villain until that episode, he failed when everything hung in the balance. It's slightly ironic that this truth seer held the biggest lie of all, but when he was interrogating people, it became all to clear, especially when he convicted Hong Li who was obviously changing heart rate because he was genuinely nervous about being interrogated.

        Loading editor
    • I actually really like that list, though I think it deserves mention that Varrick is in a leauge of his own, largely due to how much more screen time he got.

        Loading editor
    • I would said Zaheer but it seems so rushed. First, he got his airbending powers thanks to Harmonic Convergence, but it doesn't explain how he become so skilled at airbending. It seems so unreal. Anyway, I definitely believes Kuvira is the best. Granted, Kuvira isn't a badass villain like Zaheer however, I really love Kuvira because she is the only villain who only have emotions. Kuvira created Earth Empire, because she doesn't want to abandon the Earth Kingdom like her parents did to Kuvira. I felt so incredibly sad when she talked about her parents in the last episode. I really love her so much. Best #1 emotional villainess.

      P.S. I seen many people said Zaheer is much stronger than Kuvira. I can tell you guys that's not true. I remember so vividly when Kuvira took Zaheer alone to fight in "The Terror Within" Kuvira is obviously winning until Zaheer took a typical airbender excuse, running away.

        Loading editor
    • Matthias Beifong wrote:
      I would said Zaheer but it seems so rushed. First, he got his airbending powers thanks to Harmonic Convergence, but it doesn't explain how he become so skilled at airbending. It seems so unreal. Anyway, I definitely believes Kuvira is the best. Granted, Kuvira isn't a badass villain like Zaheer however, I really love Kuvira because she is the only villain who only have emotions. Kuvira created Earth Empire, because she doesn't want to abandon the Earth Kingdom like her parents did to Kuvira. I felt so incredibly sad when she talked about her parents in the last episode. I really love her so much. Best #1 emotional villainess.

      P.S. I seen many people said Zaheer is much stronger than Kuvira. I can tell you guys that's not true. I remember so vividly when Kuvira took Zaheer alone to fight in "The Terror Within" Kuvira is obviously winning until Zaheer took a typical airbender excuse, running away.

      Zaheer used his vast knolage of the Air Nomads to devalop his Airbending. In my Opinon Kuvira and her army and Zaheer and the Red Lotus are equaly bad. Also Kuvira was not alone fighting Zaheer she had the other 3 members of Team Avatar and the Metal Clan on her side.

        Loading editor
    • Wolf 91 wrote: Zaheer used his vast knolage of the Air Nomads to devalop his Airbending. In my Opinon Kuvira and her army and Zaheer and the Red Lotus are equaly bad. Also Kuvira was not alone fighting Zaheer she had the other 3 members of Team Avatar and the Metal Clan on her side.

      Actually she did. Yes, she certainly wasn't alone. However, after few scenes, she whisked her metal cable to pull Zaheer out of his group and started to fight him alone. Watch the episode again if you don't recall the scenes.

      As for his airbending, I have no idea what are you talking about--using his vast knowledge of the Air Nomads to develop his airbending? Does that makes any sense? Also, he isn't that crazy about the Air Nomads. In fact, He never mentioned anything about the Air Nomads. He only mention frequently this guru, Laghima. In addition, he tried to kill the new airbenders, he doesn't care about the Air Nomads. Honestly, you need to properly learn your respective bending from a master. Tenzin is the only airbending master. How the hell he could learn those moves if he doesn't know how to start, not to mention, he was in jail for years without any contacts from the outside.

        Loading editor
    • From scrolls he found, and natural talent. ALthough it's a stretch, maybe Zaheer knew that Unalaqs red lotus plan to free Vaatu and restore the spirits (another form of anarchy) would bring airbending back, so he'd been studying the scrolls with the same thirst as he studied that guru.

        Loading editor
    • For easier if all 4 are placed on a shelf and say all against all, everyone gets in way of defense before Unalaq between the spiritual world, Zaheer, try to smother all and Kuvira attack, blood Amon makes control kill all and takes away their power easily.  

        Loading editor
    • ... uh, what? ^

        Loading editor
    • Edgarnoe11193 wrote:
      For easier if all 4 are placed on a shelf and say all against all, everyone gets in way of defense before Unalaq between the spiritual world, Zaheer, try to smother all and Kuvira attack, blood Amon makes control kill all and takes away their power easily.

      I think you are confusing best with strongest. This is not a competition to see whom would beat whom in a fight, but a measure of their characters as a whole.

        Loading editor
    • Matthias Beifong wrote: I would said Zaheer but it seems so rushed. First, he got his airbending powers thanks to Harmonic Convergence, but it doesn't explain how he become so skilled at airbending. It seems so unreal. Anyway, I definitely believes Kuvira is the best. Granted, Kuvira isn't a badass villain like Zaheer however, I really love Kuvira because she is the only villain who only have emotions. Kuvira created Earth Empire, because she doesn't want to abandon the Earth Kingdom like her parents did to Kuvira. I felt so incredibly sad when she talked about her parents in the last episode. I really love her so much. Best #1 emotional villainess.

      P.S. I seen many people said Zaheer is much stronger than Kuvira. I can tell you guys that's not true. I remember so vividly when Kuvira took Zaheer alone to fight in "The Terror Within" Kuvira is obviously winning until Zaheer took a typical airbender excuse, running away.

      Bryke explained how zaheer got so skilled, he was already a master martial artist and once he got airbending he like any great fighter used it like an extension of his body.

        Loading editor
    • Exactly, Zaheer was the leader of his group BEFORE he went to prison. That means that during their first attempt to get Korra, he had no powers. He was placed in a special prison on the top of a mountain, with no special powers because he was THAT badass.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Exactly, Zaheer was the leader of his group BEFORE he went to prison. That means that during their first attempt to get Korra, he had no powers. He was placed in a special prison on the top of a mountain, with no special powers because he was THAT badass.

      He couldn't have been that much of a badarse considering that him and his cohorts were stopped by Tanraq, Tenzin, Sokka & Zuko

        Loading editor
    • Well, he had no bending at the time :P

        Loading editor
    • Yeah that's the thing, considering their showing after having been in prison in more restricted ways than Iroh, there's really no way that just the four of them had any hope at all of taking them down to begin with. So it's either a plot hole, or there were WAY more people fighting them the first time.

        Loading editor
    • Well considering Sokka and Zuko were in their prime, I'd say Sokka was fighting P'Li the first time they were trying to abduct Korra, being that Sokka had experience with a combustion bender. Even if he wasn't directly in the fight, he was there figuring out an angle to throw something at her, like a new boomerang, or totally unrealistic, a space sword, like he referred to his in Sozin's comet. Anyway, I'd say that Zuko was fighting Ghazan, Tonraq was against Zaheer, and Tenzin was against Ming-Gua. But for all I know, they weren't fighting each other individually

        Loading editor
    • Also, someone above said Amon felt rushed. I think he wasn't, and all the fans needed to understand why he thought bending was the source of evil in the world is how it tore his family apart. Also Tarlok was the brunt of Yakone's hatred simply because he couldn't bloodbend like Noatak, so Tarlok wasn't treated fairly due to his bending. Amon wanted equality for all, and that's pretty understood to me from what Tarlok provided to the story.

        Loading editor
    • Waterbend.3.19 wrote:
      Also, someone above said Amon felt rushed. I think he wasn't, and all the fans needed to understand why he thought bending was the source of evil in the world is how it tore his family apart. Also Tarlok was the brunt of Yakone's hatred simply because he couldn't bloodbend like Noatak, so Tarlok wasn't treated fairly due to his bending. Amon wanted equality for all, and that's pretty understood to me from what Tarlok provided to the story.

      He was rushed (and you'll note I thought he was the best) he could have had a lot more devlopment, but there were only 12 episodes so not a lot of time to give said devlopment. How did he get from daddys a tierrible person who happens to be a bender to bending is the root of all evil. Sure you can see how there is a connection but there had to be something else in his past to affect his philosophy

        Loading editor
    • Boomeraang squad wrote:

      Waterbend.3.19 wrote:
      Also, someone above said Amon felt rushed. I think he wasn't, and all the fans needed to understand why he thought bending was the source of evil in the world is how it tore his family apart. Also Tarlok was the brunt of Yakone's hatred simply because he couldn't bloodbend like Noatak, so Tarlok wasn't treated fairly due to his bending. Amon wanted equality for all, and that's pretty understood to me from what Tarlok provided to the story.

      He was rushed (and you'll note I thought he was the best) he could have had a lot more devlopment, but there were only 12 episodes so not a lot of time to give said devlopment. How did he get from daddys a tierrible person who happens to be a bender to bending is the root of all evil. Sure you can see how there is a connection but there had to be something else in his past to affect his philosophy

      If tarrlok was the one who was viewed as weak than shouldn't he have been the one wanting equality rather than Amon. Also amons dad wasn't a bender when he knew him, so I don't how that would be the reason he believed bending was evil if he never first hand abuse by a bender. I mean I get blood bending ruined their family but I think their family was pretty screwed up from the start considering they had an insane criminal as a father.

        Loading editor
    • Said insane criminal father was pretty damn normal except for on their "hunting trips". That family was normal as peaceful and loving until bending was introduced. I understand perfectly how this could cause Amons inital hatred of bending, I just fail to see how this could be only thing that dyed amon the color he became.

        Loading editor
    • Well considering Sokka and Zuko were in their prime, I'd say Sokka was fighting P'Li the first time they were trying to abduct Korra, being that Sokka had experience with a combustion bender. Even if he wasn't directly in the fight, he was there figuring out an angle to throw something at her, like a new boomerang, or totally unrealistic, a space sword, like he referred to his in Sozin's comet. Anyway, I'd say that Zuko was fighting Ghazan, Tonraq was against Zaheer, and Tenzin was against Ming-Gua. But for all I know, they weren't fighting each other individually

      "Prime" is usually late 20's to mid 30's. Zuko was at least 70  (more likely mid 70's) when the Red Lotus would have made the attempt on Korra.

      We don't really know how it all went down, but I have to believe others were with them to help in the fight against the Red Lotus.

        Loading editor
    • My mistake.

        Loading editor
    • Amon is the most broken character in the series. Except for the Avatar in Avatar state and the dark Avatar, no one stands a chance against him. Even entirely without bending, he is above average benders, easily beating a superior number of pro-benders and users of Lightning & co., easily dodging their attacks, beating them by blocking their Chi and taking away their powers. On top of that, he possesses the most broken technique which is bloodbending.

      So he possesses Bloodbending + the ability to take away bending + Chi blocking. Neither Kuvira, nor Zaheer and Unalaq stand a chance. He just needs to move one hand and finishes them off. Hell, Tarrlok soloed the whole Team avatar including Tenzin. Yakone solod the whole courtroom including Aang and Toph. Bloodbending + Chi blocking (+taking away bending), it's too broken. Amon shits on either of them. So we can debate about the place 2-4.

        Loading editor
    • Tarakesa wrote:
      Amon is the most broken character in the series. Except for the Avatar in Avatar state and the dark Avatar, no one stands a chance against him. Even entirely without bending, he is above average benders, easily beating a superior number of pro-benders and users of Lightning & co., easily dodging their attacks, beating them by blocking their Chi and taking away their powers. On top of that, he possesses the most broken technique which is bloodbending.

      So he possesses Bloodbending + the ability to take away bending + Chi blocking. Neither Kuvira, nor Zaheer and Unalaq stand a chance. He just needs to move one hand and finishes them off. Hell, Tarrlok soloed the whole Team avatar including Tenzin. Yakone solod the whole courtroom including Aang and Toph. Bloodbending + Chi blocking (+taking away bending), it's too broken. Amon shits on either of them. So we can debate about the place 2-4.

      Very true but what if Kuvira is in her Mecha suit and what if Unalaq is in his giant UnaVaatu form.

        Loading editor
    • 1) If he can bloodbend fluids through one's skin, I don't think a few more layers of protection is going to make a difference either.

      2) We're assuming no UnaVaatu since that would be incredibly one-sided ...

        Loading editor
    • As opposed to Bloodbending can do anything amon?

        Loading editor
    • What's the reason behind the avatar state being able to break blood bending? It was never really explained,

        Loading editor
    • Avatar h4x.

        Loading editor
    • It's the avatar state, the experience and power of thousands of benders hundreds of them being of the water variety, allow them to surpass a bloodbenders pull on the water in their blood. Kind of like how Katara absorbed water through her hands when she broke the bloodbending hold of the hag.

        Loading editor
    • But how would korra fair now considering the past lives are gone? My guess is raava alone is still to much for a blood bender to handle

        Loading editor