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  • Even if she was hallucinating could she somehow have been actually bending against herself. She maybe be doing it even if unknowingly, but at the same time there is evidence that she was simply in a hallucinating state and nothing was actually happening to her.

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    • Maybe it's Raava

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    • AntJenkins wrote: Maybe it's Raava

      I don't think Korra would be able to bend the four elements without her as she is like a storage drive keeping those bending abilities within herself, yet one of the spirits does mention s/he didn't feel Raava's energy around Korra.

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    • Yet the little spirits did mention that they didn't sense Raava. I do wonder what route that will take.

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    • If it is true that somehow Raava is not within Korra's own spirit then how is she able to bend the four elements?! I could see her being a natural waterbender, but Wan couldn't do it until after Raava's and his spirit were fussed. Every time Wan wanted to train with a new element he need it Raava to switch which element he could bend before the fusion happened.

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    • It is 10,000 plus years later so anything the writers could think of (i.e. 18 years of housing Raava)? I only have a few ideas on what they want to do with the Avatar aspect of the story and that just's mostly things relating to Korra's self-confidence and the like.

      The line about the spirits not sensing Raava could just be a mistake. There's plenty of odd lines of dialogue or others in LoK that could be rewritten to be more effective. Most of them dealing with spirits and the like. Even so, the line does raise questions.

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    • Maybe Raava is inactive inside of Korra. What if Raava is somehow turned off, like the Avatar State.

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    • @eternalkoniko, that's basically what's happening, and also the reason the spirits couldn't feel raava's energy coming from her.

      as far as the avatar bending more than one element, we know he/she doesn't need raava for that anymore, as korra bent both air and water after she was separated from raava. after wan and raava fused, wan's spirit was changed so that he had the capacity to hold all four on his own. prior to that, he needed raava to change the elements for him b/c he was just a regular human.

      as far as the vision korra goes, we know that it's just a figment of her mind, because the other people couldn't see her. also, Vision Korra broke several laws of physics that the avatarverse doesn't break... not to mention she "created" a pool of mercury. the idea that korra is somehow bending the elements at herself is very interesting, and also explains some of the stuff going on with that.

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    • Raava's battling Korra's inner conflict?

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    • Seems a little far fetched. Like she said, she can get along fine. I think it's closer to PTSD, just like you'd find with us.

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    • I have a feeling its a bit more than just a PTSD hallucination. If it weren't attacking her, then sure. But the other spirit could see it too. I think its too early on to guess what it is, but its definitely not just a hallucination.

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    • Can't we just think of it as PTSD with an Avatar universe spin? Like PTASD or Posttraumatic Avatar Stress Disorder?

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    • it seems to be the same thing as when the avatar talks to a past life.

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    • Intelligence4 wrote: @eternalkoniko, that's basically what's happening, and also the reason the spirits couldn't feel raava's energy coming from her.

      as far as the avatar bending more than one element, we know he/she doesn't need raava for that anymore, as korra bent both air and water after she was separated from raava. after wan and raava fused, wan's spirit was changed so that he had the capacity to hold all four on his own. prior to that, he needed raava to change the elements for him b/c he was just a regular human...

      I don't remember she doing that! I do have Book 2 on Blu-ray, I was waiting on getting all of them when they come out and rewatching 'em, but I need to see if that is true or not.

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    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      it seems to be the same thing as when the avatar talks to a past life.

      Maybe? Although she does seem to see the visage constantly for about six or so months. After such a long period Kurra just seems to be frustrated rather than trying to avoid it. It explains the earth bending fight and why she immediately tried to fire bend against it the second time around.

      The scene in question is the last episode (Light in the Dark). To be honest, the writers didn't need to add the element of some greater spirit. That's another discussion though.

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    • Look closely throughout the entire episode korra bends a single element at a time. Bryke confirmed in the book 2 commentary that they were going to allow wan to bend more than a single element without Raava but due to time constraints of the episode it would be too confusing for the audience so he just bent one at a time. As for korra yes she can bend all four without raava just not simeltaneously

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    • That pretty much just means Raava is there solely for the reincarnation cycle, the avatar state, and the title. The title portion is important because without that Avatar spirit there really isn't an offical Avatar. It would also invoke the element of "loss" to Korra's condition and is illustrated by the desert scene in the last episode where she's trying to reach Raava. Also compounded by the little spirit's lines of dialogue.

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    • I still feel that Raava is just as need it for any person titled Avatar to be able to bend all the elements either one at a time or simultaneously regardless if that person would have been born a bender or not as it can take up to 3 weeks from the previous Avatar's death for the next one to be born as stated in the original series.

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    • There is that necessity element to the spirit, but I try to separate the original series from LoK. Mainly because of the differences/tweeks to the mythos. What does suck is that Unalaq wasn't able to really do extra bending elements. Instead, we get a giant kaiju fight. Imagine if, instead of going straight to the finale, we actually have Unalaq or any other non-Raava Avatar in the background of several books trying to figure out more elements. Like a twisted version of Aang's arc. 

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    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      Bryke confirmed in the book 2 commentary that they were going to allow wan to bend more than a single element without Raava but due to time constraints of the episode it would be too confusing for the audience so he just bent one at a time. As for korra yes she can bend all four without raava just not simeltaneously

      is there a way i can watch the commentary online? what did bryke specifically say about Wan?

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    • im afraid not youll need to buy the dvd bluray of book 2 its only 10 bucks on amazon heres a brief summary of what Bryan said "When the story was being written, We had initially come up with these really complicated rules about transferring power between Raava and Wan, where he’d learn how to use two elements at once on his own at some point. " 

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    • The problem with what they originally intended is that we get something different in the final product. Can they retroactively introduce the "rules"? Well, I suppose the scene with Korra using two different elements could count as that?

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    • Kubernes wrote: The problem with what they originally intended is that we get something different in the final product. Can they retroactively introduce the "rules"? Well, I suppose the scene with Korra using two different elements could count as that?

      I don't like that idea as it feels cheap to me. Not as interesting as the fact that it took those energy geysers in order for Wan and Raava to be truly one being and capable of bending all the four elements! With those rules it feels like anyone has a chance at bending more that one element not just the Avatar, as Wan need it to figure out how to bend them each and together and not actually need the help of Raava making her not necessary to the actual plot.

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    • Wan still needed Raava to hold them as the lion turtle wouldn't give it to him directly, Reguardless of elements, the part where wan touches the geyser is still amazing because he and raava become consumed in blue energy and then we see wans eyes glowing and he's in the avatar state with aangs soundtrack in the background that just gives me goosebumps

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Kubernes wrote: The problem with what they originally intended is that we get something different in the final product. Can they retroactively introduce the "rules"? Well, I suppose the scene with Korra using two different elements could count as that?

      I don't like that idea as it feels cheap to me. Not as interesting as the fact that it took those energy geysers in order for Wan and Raava to be truly one being and capable of bending all the four elements! With those rules it feels like anyone has a chance at bending more that one element not just the Avatar, as Wan need it to figure out how to bend them each and together and not actually need the help of Raava making her not necessary to the actual plot.

      Book 2 did introduce the idea, but I'm just not certain that we will see something like that with multiple bending characters besides the Avatar. You could even introduce new Avatars (not just the Raava one) with what book 2 was throwing around. There has been some "bending" of the rules before. You could look at Amon, for instance.

      I'm not exactly certain that Raava was really necessary for the plot looking back at the book. It sort of feels like the same thing with the spirit wilds.

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    • Kubernes wrote:

      Book 2 did introduce the idea, but I'm just not certain that we will see something like that with multiple bending characters besides the Avatar. You could even introduce new Avatars (not just the Raava one) with what book 2 was throwing around. There has been some "bending" of the rules before. You could look at Amon, for instance.

      I'm not exactly certain that Raava was really necessary for the plot looking back at the book. It sort of feels like the same thing with the spirit wilds.

      How did Amon bend the rules?! He was still a waterbender that was trained to the limimits of what a waterbender could do!

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    • i think it was stretching it a little to have a waterbender be able to use bloodbending in a reverse healing fashion to remove someone's bending permanently. for a very long time, sure. but forever?? i think that qualifies as bending the rules a little.

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    • I don't think they ever established that only the Avatar could take away someone's bending. All they have ever said was that only the Avatar could energybend and he or she could use it to take bending away. And also we really don't know what Amon actually did to people's bodies other that sever their chi which is fictional, I mean the people were still alive so he didn't do anything to their cardiovascular system that we could tell short of x-rays.

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    • they did say that only the avatar could take away bending - that's what made amon's ability so surprising.

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    • I thought that blood bending without the full moon was pretty close to just throwing the rules out, if not bending them? Having Aang actually have to help Korra at the end by giving her the ability was rather odd and competely different than any of the other past life experiences. I'm not sure if it is exactly breaking the rules, but it certainly bends them. Seemed like it bent alot of people's suspension of disbelief.

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    • And also we really don't know what Amon actually did to people's bodies other that sever their chi which is fictional,

      That's the point, it wasn't sufficiently set up beforehand, & it's barely been explained even now.

      Having Aang actually have to help Korra at the end by giving her the ability was rather odd and competely different than any of the other past life experiences.

      This actually makes perfect sense to me. Roku did something similar to destroy the Fire Temple & Kyoshi somehow projected her physical form onto Aang.

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    • I thought Korra's sudden airbending skills just made the "bending rule book" useless.

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    • How else was she going to defeat him? By outsmarting Amon? Then again, Amon just decided to waterbend back to the surface after being thrown into the bay. Maybe he just couldn't swim?

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    • I think he was drowning and panicked. Korra used air bending because it wasn't detected by Amon as in he could only take away elements that were physically present in Korras body. Maybye Amon used blood bending to just permanently block chi points I would guess each element has a different path.

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    • The logic seemed to be that, because Korra wasn't able to airbend, having the other three elements blocked at such a precarious situation was the perfect stimuli for the last element to come forth. This kind of stimuli is a recurring element in Avatar. Just look at Toph's first metalbend or Bolin's first lavabend.

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    • After watching this week's episode and remembering last week's, it seems that Korra's hallucination about going into "liquid metal" (mercury, they don't seem to want to name it anything) may have foreshadowed Toph's revelation about Korra still having it inside her body. So maybe Korra isn't just suffering from PTSD she may also be suffering from heavy metal poisoning which can also cause hallucinations.

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    • Yes. I think it, and the korra-in-avatar-state visions are her mind doing a trick against herself.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:
      After watching this week's episode and remembering last week's, it seems that Korra's hallucination about going into "liquid metal" (mercury, they don't seem to want to name it anything) may have foreshadowed Toph's revelation about Korra still having it inside her body. So maybe Korra isn't just suffering from PTSD she may also be suffering from heavy metal poisoning which can also cause hallucinations.

      The whole "metal bits in the bloodstream" does feel a bit cheap to me. I mean, why include another physical element to a problem that should be largely psychological? I know it's to be able to visually show when Korra is ready to become the Avatar again and face the problems of the world, but you can that in other ways that maximize that psychological element.

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    • The metal in her veins kind of represents the fear she's still holding on to about being the avatar. It also gives a reason for korra not being able to use the avatar state which is kind of goes back to aang when he had a physical disturbance he couldn't use the avatar state as well. I'm actually surprised aang never developed PTSD after Azula shocked him but I guess he was just different than korra in that sense.

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    • I'm not sure if they wanted to imply that Korra's current situation isn't just her fault or maybe because of the short amount of episodes they just wanted solid evidence to the audience that she was better again once she is shown at full power. But I must say a comic of those three years could help us better understand.

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    • You can represent the psychological problem in many interesting ways rather than use some sort of physical one as a shortcut. We had the visions of Korra's doppleganger before that pretty much worked well. In fact, it would have been a much more interesting development if it was something she had to conquer.

      Remember too that Aang's problem about the Avatar state was essentially solved by an exterior force (a rock) rather than anything that would have left a lasting impact. I'd rather not have that sort of deus ex moment again.

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    • Well he could use the avatar state after the rock hit his back but he mastered it when he chose his own path by not taking oazis life.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:
      After watching this week's episode and remembering last week's, it seems that Korra's hallucination about going into "liquid metal" (mercury, they don't seem to want to name it anything) may have foreshadowed Toph's revelation about Korra still having it inside her body. So maybe Korra isn't just suffering from PTSD she may also be suffering from heavy metal poisoning which can also cause hallucinations.


      Well, given that the spirit that led Korra into the Swamp could see/sense the "illusion" too and was threatened enough to be growling at it while in its dog masquerade, plus the fact that Korra was actually getting kicked around by it in the Swamp....I don't think it's just an illusion. The mercury she still has in her body is probably making whatever's going on worse or causing other problems, but I don't think the evidence would support that whatever Korra's seeing and going through is nothing but a hallucination >_>

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    • Extrasensory vision or hallucination maybe? Dogs can hear sounds that humans cannot so maybe spirits just have the ability to see things that humans cannot?

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    • I might not be the best suited for this, but I have a theory here. There was talk of Chakras and Aang not being able to enter the Avatar State because he had a physical wound, and before he couldn't control it because he'd not opened all his chakras.

      Within the episodes presented thus far (not sure if the fourth or further is out yet) we see a bunch of flashbacks of Zaheer about to kill Korra. Any time she begins to bend, she seems to experience a flashback quite similar to PTSD sufferers. 

      If I'm correct, it's the first of the Chakras (Earth) that deals with survival and is blocked by fear. In this sense, she's petrified of death, especially in the manner Zaheer would've done, so it seems quite fitting that with the first Chakra blocked, she cannot re-enter the Avatar State.

      The visions of Raava, however, were seen by the spirit as well, and it did react somewhat aggressively. There's no proof spirits are Telepathic (at least, not in the sense of mind reading. The Lion Turtles spoke that way, but had to be physically spoken to.) so I'd think that what happened is the Korra actually died from the metal, though it was removed concurrent to her death.

      Then she was somehow revived as Raava left her body, and perhaps in a way damaging her because she sustained massive physical and psychological damage which may have carried on to the Spirit. (It's already stated that she'd die if Korra would in the State, so why not harmed.) The logical explanation for that is that there can't be two Avatars, so Raava's stuck in limbo and has either tried and failed to reconnect with Korra which enraged her or she was enraged in the first place and is coming after Korra to kill her and actually get reincarnated this time.


      This is just my theory, in all honesty, but it made sense in my head so.

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    • That actually makes a lot of sense. I don't quite agree with it, but I like it. I think that it is more a combination PTSD and Korra not believing in herself. I think that vision Korra is Raava trying to get Korra to fight her past and if she can defeat the memories of horror from the past then Raava will rejoin with her and Korra will be able to reenter the Avatar State. Though kind of with Caelo Sciat, I think that Korra will end up dying at the end of the season and the final episode will be Jinora or Mako or Bolin finding the new avatar as a child. 

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    • I think it's Korra's negative energy is shielding Raava's presence.  The avatar affects the spirits around her and possibly inside her.  With the events of Book2, it's possilbe that Vaatu is now rejoined with Raava inside Korra. It only attacks when Korra attacks.  Otherwise it just stayed there. (to fight me makes me stronger) And this Manifestation is somehow in that same state that Aang was in when Fang took him to Roku's temple. Somewhere between the spirit world and physical world.  Vaatu referred to is as the divide. Iroh, Jinora, Spirits and the Avatar have shown they can see spirits in that state. 

      Raava is still with Korra....but The Avatar needs to be physically & spiritually(psychic) connected to Raava to go into the avatar state.  Her physical injuries and her (seemingly) fragile mental state could be causing this fracture and it's projecting outward. 

      But if this dark avatar korra is strong enough ot physically attack Korra is another matter. 

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    • Going back to the OP:

      Yes, I do think that Korra is psychically bending against herself. It's a pity there are no good pscyhologists available in Republic City;)

      In the real world, people who undergo severe trauma tend to avoid anything that reminds them of it. If you were shot by a gun, for example, you'll likely be startled by anything that sounds like a firearm down the road. In Korra's case, she knows that her being the Avatar was the main reason Zaheer tried to take her down. Therefore, so long as she remains in a convalescent state and avoids her responsibilities, she is subconsciously able to prevent a similar occurence from happening again. 

      Using real world logic, she's going to need a lot of emotional support if she's going to bend the remaining bits of mercury out of herself. That is something Toph may or may not be able to help with. 

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    •  I think that Korra will end up dying at the end of the season and the final episode will be Jinora or Mako or Bolin finding the new avatar as a child. 

      Well, I am looking forward to the LoK comics, so I hope Korra doesn't die that soon.

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    • I mean I hope that she doesn't die. But I wouldn't be all that surprised if she did

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    • Well, Vaatu is inside korra, but not strong enough to be a factor.

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    • Spiritbending just plain "kills" the spirit now?

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    • Cliffrussell wrote:
      I mean I hope that she doesn't die. But I wouldn't be all that surprised if she did

      I've never been all that fond of watching main characters die on screen; it usually makes me wonder why on earth I invested all that time.

      But if she does go, may she go out with a bang and take a few people with her :)

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      Spiritbending just plain "kills" the spirit now?

      where does this info come from? i didn't see bryke say anything about it on the live chat...

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    • I really don't think Korra is going to die, as she has experience the closest thing to it at the end of Book 3. I do feel that just like with Aang's injury in "Book 3 Fire", Korra is also having a similar experience which is funny as she is with Top one of the people that Aang was with when the same thing happened to him.

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    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      Kubernes wrote:
      Spiritbending just plain "kills" the spirit now?
      where does this info come from? i didn't see bryke say anything about it on the live chat...

      One of them mentioned on the chat about where Vaatu was and the answer was that they believed she's within Korra. Just in a very tiny manner. That's the only way I see spiritbending as "killing" the spirit. Then again, I wish a question or two were raised about spirit bending in general, as we don't really know that much about it and the effects. A character in the new video game gets spiritbent and I'm really sure what exactly happens to them.

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    • They also implied that Vaatu is too weak to do anything, indicating that this has nothing to do with him & he's not coming back for another 9,997 years.

      But one thing that annoys me is that they said that Vaatu will have effects on later Avatars, but not what those effects ARE.

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    • They are leaving it open for the small chance that they will continue the series in the future. I'm not sure how likely that is because they seem to want to be done with Avatar a whole. It's possible that Vaatu might but I agree with Neo in that he's to weak and dispersed to really be able to do anything.

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    • That's how I saw it: the answer gave enough room for them to do something with the "character" if they really wanted to. If they don't, then they can use the too weak option.

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