FANDOM


  • When you think about it, yeah, maybe he is.

    Let's break it down.

    Yes, he's crazy and he tried to send the world into chaos.

    Yes, he's a murderer.

    But when you get down to it, he's follow a lot of.... Airbending philosophy.

    I mean, he learned how to fly! How to fly! Aang never learned how to fly, neither did Tenzin!

    Even Tenzin said he's using techniques that haven't been used in thousands of years.

    He reach spiritual enlightenment, left behind his worldly possessions and could even enter the spirit world at will.

    Maybe, the reason why he almost killed Tenzin is because he's better at Airbending than anyone who came before him, including Tenzin. 

      Loading editor
    • Zaheer is very talented, that much is for sure. But he's definitely not the best.

      If you pay close attention to his fight with Tenzin, you can tell that Tenzin was thoroughly winning. Zaheer didn't manage to land a single hit on Tenzin and had to repeatedly flee throughout the battle until P'Li, Ghazan and Ming-Hue intervened.

      Unlocking the power of flight seems to involve completely letting of all earthly attachments, which is something Aang never could do.

        Loading editor
    • Aang never let of his earth attachments (Katara), because he never wanted to, in a paralell universe where he can actually finish his spiritual training and airbending culture and history lessons, I can see him doing it, he was the youngest Airbending master ever, if the 100 year war never had happened and he hadn't got frozen thus never meeting Katara, he could have achieve that flying thing LOL. I still think he was way more gifted than Zaheer is, he just never had been in same circumstances.

        Loading editor
    • Also, Zaheer only could fly after P'Li died. P'Li was the earth attachment of Zaheer. When she died, he decided to let her go, and then was able to fly.

        Loading editor
    • Martosmartel wrote:
      Aang never let of his earth attachments (Katara), because he never wanted to, in a paralell universe where he can actually finish his spiritual training and airbending culture and history lessons, I can see him doing it, he was the youngest Airbending master ever, if the 100 year war never had happened and he hadn't got frozen thus never meeting Katara, he could have achieve that flying thing LOL. I still think he was way more gifted than Zaheer is, he just never had been in same circumstances.

      He has let go of his earthly attachments; remember when Aang unlocked the seventh chakra (earthly attachments)? He did it by putting aside his feelings for Katara (main earthly attachment).

        Loading editor
    • To answer the main question directly: No, he is not. Tenzin kicked his sh*t in. In a rematch vs Tenzin, all he would proably do is fly around and be really annoying. 

      Zaheer can't handle multiple benders at once, but Monk Gyatso took down a tonne, before going down himself. So he's greater than Zaheer.

      Also Guru Laghima, the man who Zaheer practically worships, is probably greater than him.

      And also I don't think Aang could've EVER flied, to be honest. Aang's "earthly tether" was Earth itself, because remember Yangchen said that the Avatar's duty is to the world itself. The only way Aang could fly is if the entire world was desecrated and only he survived. 

      To confuse you guys a bit, remember Guru Pathik said that to unlock the "Thought Chakra" Aang has to let go of his earthly attachments (i.e. Katara). And he did let go of that right before he was shot down by Azula in 'The Crossroads of Destiny'. So technically speaking, he should've been able to fly back then. But this was 8 years ago, so I guess we'll forgive the writers for goofing. 


      Back to the point, Zaheer lost everything and was thrown at the end of his rope. That does not mean he's "the greatest", but yeah he's noteworthy.

        Loading editor
    • Shark.933 wrote:

      And also I don't think Aang could've EVER flied, to be honest. Aang's "earthly tether" was Earth itself, because remember Yangchen said that the Avatar's duty is to the world itself. The only way Aang could fly is if the entire world was desecrated and only he survived. 

      To confuse you guys a bit, remember Guru Pathik said that to unlock the "Thought Chakra" Aang has to let go of his earthly attachments (i.e. Katara). And he did let go of that right before he was shot down by Azula in 'The Crossroads of Destiny'. So technically speaking, he should've been able to fly back then. But this was 8 years ago, so I guess we'll forgive the writers for goofing. 


      Back to the point, Zaheer lost everything and was thrown at the end of his rope. That does not mean he's "the greatest", but yeah he's noteworthy.

      Yangchen was speaking about spiritual enlightenment in regards to having the worries of the world, and needing to kill if needed. Aang bypassed this with spirit bending. Although it didn't solve all the problems in the world, it did enable him to do good things without resorting to murder.

      And Aang did fly. This could have been the airbending bubble around him, but then again, perhaps he had let go of enough of himself that, for a brief period, he could fly.

      But yes, while Zaheer is noteworthy, he isn't the best, nor the most capable.

        Loading editor
    • Interestingly enough, Zaheer could fly the moment his girlfriend died. So he keeps rattling about how chaos is true freedom, how he will kill everything that imposes rules - but he has a girlfriend himself. Interesting...

        Loading editor
    • To everyone else, I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying with what he could do, he might be.

      @Shark.933:

      I doubt Tenzin in his condition in that episode would have the strength to stand up, let alone fight.

        Loading editor
    • zaheer was not trying to fight tenzin look at fight he waa running away from him from beginning he was stalling until his friends came in too finish him off .its just when azula was stalling aang toph sokka the only difference he had no one like sokka to tell him the obvious so no he never plan to fight tenzin serious.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, Zaheer isn't the best airbender whoever lived. He may have unlocked some special skill, but until learning that, he was losing to Tenzin. I mean, the simple fact is, Airbending Masters probably think it might be impossible to master the element in just a couple of weeks. I mean you could be at a master like level in a few weeks, but no, Zaheer isn't the best.

        Loading editor
    • I think P'li was an earthly tether for him, her death made there be nothing desirable for Zaheer on earth so he disconnected him it, causing him to obtain noclip

      He may have found Guru Lahimas ability but I dont think Guru Lahima was as "extreme". He probably liked freedom just as much but didnt go as far as killing and destroying everything

        Loading editor
    • I don't think that Zaheer is the best. He was running away from Tenzin , His freinds helped him to defeat Tenzin, The only thing made him strong is his descovery of how to take someone's breath and learning flight from guru lagihma's poem.

      I think if Jinora grew up she will be better than him, she had more knowledge, better skills even better than her father who is an airbending master and she is spiritual.

        Loading editor
    • Pre-flight, Tenzin is obviously better. Post-flight, I'd say he was the best Airbender we've ever seen. It took a ton of other Airbenders--possibly including Tenzin, I didn't see--to take him down, & even then, he was able to fight that tornado to an extent. But, as others have noted, Guru Laghima was probably better, & then when you include Spirits & Lion Turtles in that equation....

        Loading editor
    • Shadowstriker314 wrote:
      Interestingly enough, Zaheer could fly the moment his girlfriend died. So he keeps rattling about how chaos is true freedom, how he will kill everything that imposes rules - but he has a girlfriend himself. Interesting...

      That doesn't make any sense. Chaos and killing everything that imposes rules has absolutely no correlation to his girlfriend. He also said toward the finale that he will give back to the people their choice to be loyal only to themselves and those they loved. So, not sure that what you're getting at fits. Zaheer is definitely the embodiment of what he's trying to bring to the world; not a hypocrite.

        Loading editor
    • SpiritBending wrote:Yangchen was speaking about spiritual enlightenment in regards to having the worries of the world, and needing to kill if needed. Aang bypassed this with spirit bending. Although it didn't solve all the problems in the world, it did enable him to do good things without resorting to murder.

      And Aang did fly. This could have been the airbending bubble around him, but then again, perhaps he had let go of enough of himself that, for a brief period, he could fly.

      But yes, while Zaheer is noteworthy, he isn't the best, nor the most capable.


      I bought the Yangchen point up because I wanted to emphasise that Aang's "earthly tether" is the world. You cannot have any attachments, as far as I know, in order to have the ability to fly. To unlock the ability of flying, you need spiritual enlightenment.

      And Aang never flew. Tenzin says it himself, "he's unlocked the powers of bending that haven't existed for thousands of years" when Bumi asked "how can he fly like that" (in 'Venom of The Red Lotus'). The flying that I am talking about, and the one that Zaheer showed, is being completely afloat in air without the air physically acting like a booster. Aang never did that; even in the Avatar state, he needed a gush of win to hoist him up.


      Avatar Katar: 

      No, I didn't mean Tenzin fighting him while he was injured. I meant if they had a rematch when both were well and uninjured, Tenzin would still win. 


      Sonicwave567:

      He wasn't really stalling like Azula. He was still fighting back full force, in my opinion. I mean, why would he stall? Azula wanted to stall for the end of the eclipse, what reason did he have?The only reason he would stall is because he needed the others to help him fight Tenzin. This means that he isn't 'the greatest' because he was too weak to finish Tenzin off himself.  

        Loading editor
    • No. He isn't the best. At all. Have you even seen the battle between Zaheer and Tenzin before the other Red Lotus members intervened?

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      No. He isn't the best. At all. Have you even seen the battle between Zaheer and Tenzin before the other Red Lotus members intervened?

      Upon Zaheer gaining flight I dont think he would be defeatable by Tenzin. Him flying by hurts you enough by the looks of Korra

        Loading editor
    • @Shark.933:

      I don't know, Zaheer was giving a pretty good fight, landing in some blows.

      @Boggy B:

      Yes, I have. And I'm just saying, as Zaheer and Tenzin are both really spiritual people, that they're pretty much really powerful. But when Zaheer can fly, it'll be a bit hard for Tenzin to hit Zaheer, he wouldn't be much of an annoyance, he'd be hard to knock down. I know Korra was knocking Zaheer around a bit, but that's because she's pissed and in the Avatar State, Tenzin wouldn't really have that advantage.

        Loading editor
    • Considering Zaheer was only a bender for less than a month, he's pretty impressive.

        Loading editor
    • Thinklogic wrote:

      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      No. He isn't the best. At all. Have you even seen the battle between Zaheer and Tenzin before the other Red Lotus members intervened?

      Upon Zaheer gaining flight I dont think he would be defeatable by Tenzin. Him flying by hurts you enough by the looks of Korra

      Oh yeah, I forgot that his flight causes some kind of invisible jet stream effect.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, flight will give him the upper advantage, and Tenzin seems so amazed by the power of flight. Tenzin would have something to worry about. Besides, Zaheer only ran from Tenzin in their fight because his space was limited like airbender space is. With flight he can get to vantage points quicker and with more ease. Tenzin couldn't keep up.

        Loading editor
    • Forget about Zaheer's flight advantages. Tenzin is more powerful than him, and could have defeated him if it wasn't for the other Red Lotus members. Besides, Zaheer never did fly during his battle with Tenzin. Perhaps he couldn't do it at the time.

        Loading editor
    • I just don't think Tenzin could catch up with him. I mean say Zaheer goes into midair and Tenzin can't reach him. Zaheer will have plenty of bending room, giving him the upperhand, while Tenzin, will eventually tire in his position and run away.

        Loading editor
    • Look, I'm talking about how powerful their bending is. If they both had a one-on-one battle with no cowardice (running away), Tenzin would definitely win. Ergo Zaheer is not the greatest airbender who ever lived.

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Look, I'm talking about how powerful their bending is. If they both had a one-on-one battle with no cowardice (running away), Tenzin would definitely win. Ergo Zaheer is not the greatest airbender who ever lived.

      The thing is, he was able to last quiet a while with Tenzin in the first place, and since he got flying, it'd be really hard to pin him down, especially since Tenzin never really faced anyone who could fly before.

        Loading editor
    • ...Never mind. You don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      ...Never mind. You don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

      I do, I'm just saying that "disregarding" or forgetting his ability to fly would be like saying ignore his ability to fly. Which we can't, if he had a rematch with Tenzin, his ability to fly would make him much harder to pin down.

      That's like saying, "Forget that Darth Vader was more powerful than Luke, if Darth wasn't strong with the force, Luke could defeat him in no time!".

        Loading editor
    • Oh for the last time, I'm talking about if their battle had no flying, no running away, no hiding, etc. They just FIGHT each other. A fair fight.

      Tenzin would win.

        Loading editor
    • There's no such thing as a fair fight.

        Loading editor
    • This is the last message I'm sending you both.

      What I meant by "a fair fight" is that Zaheer wouldn't try to fly away and just shoot air gusts at Tenzin while flying, they both fight on land, with no running or hiding. Just a pure bending battle. If you still don't understand what I'm saying, I don't know what to say to you.

        Loading editor
    • No need to get upset ^^" Everyone's allowed their own opinions and ideas. I know exactly what you're saying, and I have sincere doubts that, under any situation, a fight with Zaheer will never be 'fair'.

        Loading editor
    • Whatever, bye, I have to go.

        Loading editor
    • Hey, Fruipit! Long time no see xP

      @Boggy B:

      She's kind of right, though. I doubt Zaheer would do a fair fight when he could fly.

      If you have a gun, why do a long fist fight when you can shot the guy dead?

        Loading editor
    • Just forget it. You're the wrong person to discuss this with. Good day to you.

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer would win because he thinks about airbending different from tenzin. Zaheer is willing to kill people with airbending but that thought would never cross remains mind. Zaheer would pin tendon to a wall with one hand while simultaneously using his other hand to bend the air out of tendons mouth. Zaheer would win hands down.

        Loading editor
    • Once again, you're wrong. "Tendon" is more powerful than Zaheer, he could have defeated him during their battle if it wasn't for the other Red Lotus members.

        Loading editor
    • He isn't the best airbender, as he didn't trully follow their beliefs, Air Nomads belief that Every Life is valuable? Nope, he killed the Earth Queen and almost killed Korra. Peace? He wanted Chaos, he even said so! So even if he has some talents, he wouldn't be the greatest, as he doesn't think like an airbender.

        Loading editor
    • I think this thread is based on Zaheer's airbending capabilities, not his beliefs or desires.

        Loading editor
    • Think about Zuko, His inner fire was hunting the Avatar, Firebenders used hate to fuel their fire, this made Azula incredably strong and Zuko only kind of strong, as we find out later, he is good, so then he finds the true way to Firebend, and becomes as strong as Azula, maybe even stronger. But maybe since other air bending masters accept these beliefs, they were stronger than Zaheer. Besides, we have only seen very few airbending masters, not much to compare Zaheer with.

        Loading editor
    • And what about Guru Lahema, he had all of Zaheer's Talents and had Airbending Nomads' beliefs and desires, Zaheer literally found out how to fly because of Lahema.

        Loading editor
    • No I think he does follow airbending beliefs albeit in a very twisted way. What is ultimate freedom? Is it being able to do WHATEVER you want? If so, how can you do that if there is someone or something preventing you from doing it? That is zaheer's whole point. Chaos is ultimate freedom because it enables you to do whatever you want without any consequences at all. Airbending is about freedom and zaheer took that in the most literal sense possible.


      By the way I am on a kindle and autocorrect can go straight to he'll. Tenzin is not preprogrammed with autocorrect. Imagine that!

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer is the greatest airbender hands down.

        Loading editor
    • Shazer wrote:
      Zaheer is the greatest airbender hands down.

      Greatest is quite subjective. Depends on the information and criterion. 

      Why not Guru Laghima? Or Gyatso?  

        Loading editor
    • Then again, I remember Iroh telling Zuko that Air was the Element of Freedom, and Zaheer was trying to give freedom to all by "removing" high political figures, like kings or queens or presidents, even if it was done in non Air nomad like ways...

        Loading editor
    • Shazer wrote:
      Zaheer is the greatest airbender hands down.

      For the last time, he isn't the greatest airbender or even CLOSE to being the greatest.

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Zaheer is the greatest airbender hands down.
      For the last time, he isn't the greatest airbender or even CLOSE to being the greatest.

      And that is a Fact because Boggy B says so.

        Loading editor
    • Urano23 wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Zaheer is the greatest airbender hands down.
      For the last time, he isn't the greatest airbender or even CLOSE to being the greatest.
      And that is a Fact because Boggy B says so.

      Indeed.

        Loading editor
    • Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!

        Loading editor
    • The Wikia Editor wrote:
      Zaheer is very talented, that much is for sure. But he's definitely not the best.

      If you pay close attention to his fight with Tenzin, you can tell that Tenzin was thoroughly winning. Zaheer didn't manage to land a single hit on Tenzin and had to repeatedly flee throughout the battle until P'Li, Ghazan and Ming-Hue intervened.

      Unlocking the power of flight seems to involve completely letting of all earthly attachments, which is something Aang never could do.


      THIS!

      ...and along with that, keep in mind that Zaheer didn't any earthly attachments or tethers. I think his only earthly attachment in the world was P'Li, and she died. When she died, there was nothing else holding him back.

      Aang was not willing to let go of Katara (and probably Appa) for anything, not even true enlightenment or the power of flight.

      Tenzin has a family that he's not willing to let go of for anything in the world.

      All the other airbenders had some sort of earthly attachment. Gyatso had Aang.

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer said that he was able to fly because he let go of all earthly attachments. Doesn't that mean that a full avatar should be able to fly because in order for them to enter the avatar state they need to let go of all earthly attachments. I guess the avatar can fly, but it is limited and is nothing like zaheer s flying. Any thoughts? I made a post on this because I feel it is a completely separate subject. It is titled avatar state flying.

        Loading editor
    • I mean a completely new thread titled avatar state flying.

        Loading editor
    • Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!

      Exactly.

        Loading editor
    • As said above, Zaheer is in no way THE greatest air-bender ever. But definitely one (if not only) airbender to go ahead and kill a monarch. 

      He's one of the many great air-benders that existed in the Avatar Universe, like Guru Laghima and Gyatso. 

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Just forget it. You're the wrong person to discuss this with. Good day to you.

      No I'm not? I'm saying my opinion.

      "I think this thread is based on Zaheer's airbending capabilities, not his beliefs or desires."

      Well, yeah. What did you think? Believing something or someone's desires doesn't make them physically strong, he's just a powerful airbender, on top of that, he proved that he could pretty much take on most people. Like Zuko said "Indiviually, they could take down any Bender, together, they could on the entire world"

        Loading editor
    • Moon's Haze wrote:
      As said above, Zaheer is in no way THE greatest air-bender ever. But definitely one (if not only) airbender to go ahead and kill a monarch. 

      He's one of the many great air-benders that existed in the Avatar Universe, like Guru Laghima and Gyatso. 

      So now you've suddenly decided to agree with me for once, eh?

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!
      Exactly.

      Boggy.... They're making fun of you.....

        Loading editor
    • AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!
      Exactly.
      Boggy.... They're making fun of you.....

      How stupid do you think I am? I know that. And they're not "making fun of me", they're joking.

        Loading editor
    • Shazer wrote:
      Zaheer said that he was able to fly because he let go of all earthly attachments. Doesn't that mean that a full avatar should be able to fly because in order for them to enter the avatar state they need to let go of all earthly attachments. I guess the avatar can fly, but it is limited and is nothing like zaheer s flying. Any thoughts?

      I made a post on this because I feel it is a completely separate subject. It is titled avatar state flying.

      Things changed between ATLA and LOK. For example, the process tht Aang went through to master the Avatar State, Korra didn't go through that. We've seen that bloodbending didn't require a full moon anymore. Waterbending could be done without the "fluid motion" of arms. Lightning is no longer done by only prodigious firebenders anymore. My point is that in the world of Avatar as in real life, things don't stay the same. Perhaps, the process of mastering the Avatar State doesn't require letting your earthly attachments go as it used to. Korra didn't let go any earthly attachments, yet she still mastered it, although she doesn't use it often.

      I also think that when mastering the Avatar State, they never entirely let go all of their earthly attachments. I think it's selective. They let go of their earthly tethers when the moment calls for it. If the case was that the Avatar must let go of their earthly tethers always and forever, they would never master the avatar state.

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!
      Exactly.
      Boggy.... They're making fun of you.....
      How stupid do you think I am? I know that. And they're not "making fun of me", they're joking.

      I don't think you're stupid, I'm just saying, I didn't think you knew.

        Loading editor
    • AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!
      Exactly.
      Boggy.... They're making fun of you.....
      How stupid do you think I am? I know that. And they're not "making fun of me", they're joking.
      I don't think you're stupid, I'm just saying, I didn't think you knew.

      I thought being a part of this wiki and discussing things with these people would be worth it.

      ...

      I was wrong.

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!
      Exactly.
      Boggy.... They're making fun of you.....
      How stupid do you think I am? I know that. And they're not "making fun of me", they're joking.
      I don't think you're stupid, I'm just saying, I didn't think you knew.
      I thought being a part of this wiki and discussing things with these people would be worth it.

      ...

      I was wrong.

      Why? I'm being as nice and civil as I can be.

        Loading editor
    • I wasn't referring to you. See the "Book Four Speculation: The possible and rumors." thread.

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer is probably right up there along with Aang and Tenzin, it was interesting having an airbender as a primary villain, since most airbenders are pascifists and don't like to fight and hurt people.  What really seperates Zaheer from the rest is like you said, he can fly.  Also he's not one dimensional, he's a poet and a philosopher.  I hope that since he's the only one of the 4 red lotus members (not counting the underlings) that is still alive, we'll see a lot more of him in book 4

        Loading editor
    • I think we'll see a new villian in book 4.

        Loading editor
    • The answer is simple, people. Zaheer hasn't gotten his tattoos yet, so all other airbending masters are OBVIOUSLY better. 

        Loading editor
    • Mhudson0421 wrote:
      The answer is simple, people. Zaheer hasn't gotten his tattoos yet, so all other airbending masters are OBVIOUSLY better. 

      This guy is right.

        Loading editor
    • Mhudson0421 wrote:
      The answer is simple, people. Zaheer hasn't gotten his tattoos yet, so all other airbending masters are OBVIOUSLY better. 

      :/ Who's going to give Zaheer his tattoos regardless of if he's a master? Tenzin, one of his greatest foes?

        Loading editor
    • Mhudson0421 wrote:
      The answer is simple, people. Zaheer hasn't gotten his tattoos yet, so all other airbending masters are OBVIOUSLY better. 

      Well, who would give Zaheer "master status" or tattoos? Tenzin, who was the only airbending master in the world at the time and the only person "giving away" master status, surely wouldn't do it.

        Loading editor
    • Cokedragon wrote:
      Mhudson0421 wrote:
      The answer is simple, people. Zaheer hasn't gotten his tattoos yet, so all other airbending masters are OBVIOUSLY better. 

      :/ Who's going to give Zaheer his tattoos regardless of if he's a master? Tenzin, one of his greatest foes?

      Wow! I actually replied before I read this LOL!

        Loading editor
    • AntJenkins wrote:
      Cokedragon wrote:
      Mhudson0421 wrote:
      The answer is simple, people. Zaheer hasn't gotten his tattoos yet, so all other airbending masters are OBVIOUSLY better. 
      :/ Who's going to give Zaheer his tattoos regardless of if he's a master? Tenzin, one of his greatest foes?
      Wow! I actually replied before I read this LOL!

      Lol, it's fine man.

        Loading editor
    • Shark.933 wrote:
      SpiritBending wrote:Yangchen was speaking about spiritual enlightenment in regards to having the worries of the world, and needing to kill if needed. Aang bypassed this with spirit bending. Although it didn't solve all the problems in the world, it did enable him to do good things without resorting to murder.

      And Aang did fly. This could have been the airbending bubble around him, but then again, perhaps he had let go of enough of himself that, for a brief period, he could fly.

      But yes, while Zaheer is noteworthy, he isn't the best, nor the most capable.


      I bought the Yangchen point up because I wanted to emphasise that Aang's "earthly tether" is the world. You cannot have any attachments, as far as I know, in order to have the ability to fly. To unlock the ability of flying, you need spiritual enlightenment.

      And Aang never flew. Tenzin says it himself, "he's unlocked the powers of bending that haven't existed for thousands of years" when Bumi asked "how can he fly like that" (in 'Venom of The Red Lotus'). The flying that I am talking about, and the one that Zaheer showed, is being completely afloat in air without the air physically acting like a booster. Aang never did that; even in the Avatar state, he needed a gush of win to hoist him up.

      Aang's "earthly tether" was in regards to his work for the world, and needing to end someones life if required. Aang found a way around that, and though he still had earthly attachments, he was not attached as such. And noone stated you needed to have spiritual enlightenment to fly. You need a lack of worldly attachments.

      And Aang did fly. During his last battle with the fire lord, he took to flying (in an orb composed of the elements), and used to gusts of wind to move around during that fight (he was suspended in the very middle of the orb), and had at that point, given away all earthly attachments. It could be argued that, at that point, he temporarily gained the power of weightlessness and flight.

        Loading editor
    • i think guru laghima is the best coz he invented the flying thingy lol :3

        Loading editor
    • SpiritBending wrote:

      Aang's "earthly tether" was in regards to his work for the world, and needing to end someones life if required. Aang found a way around that, and though he still had earthly attachments, he was not attached as such. And noone stated you needed to have spiritual enlightenment to fly. You need a lack of worldly attachments.

      And Aang did fly. During his last battle with the fire lord, he took to flying (in an orb composed of the elements), and used to gusts of wind to move around during that fight (he was suspended in the very middle of the orb), and had at that point, given away all earthly attachments. It could be argued that, at that point, he temporarily gained the power of weightlessness and flight.

      This is the second time you've misinterpreted the point I am trying to get across. I repeat, I bought the Yangchen point up to emphasise that the Avatar is bound by the world and can, therefore, never be exempt from an "earthly tether". I'm using the Yangchen point as an example to illustrate something. I don't care if Aang went around it and didn't kill someone. That point is irrelevant.

      Secondly, it is not about a lack of wordly attachments, it is about complete detachment. In that sense, the ability to fly comes from spiritual enlightenment, in my opinion; because it is not an ability like metal bending, where you physically focus on the earth within the metal, or like bloodbending where you physically focus on water particles within a body--- in short, it is not something physical, so is therefore spiritual. The writers most probably got this idea from real-life monks, who seek detachment from the world as a spiritual practice.

      Lastly, Aang never flew. The air, within the "orb" that you mentioned, acts like a whirlwind (but in a ball shape) and holds Aang up. Aang physically controls that air to hold himself up. Zaheer, on the other hand, does not require gusts of air to hold him up, but can float effortlessly within it. He has essentially "become wind". More importantly, you have completely disregarded what I said in the second paragraph of my last post. I'm going to copy and paste it here for you again :). "Tenzin says it himself, "he's unlocked the powers of bending that haven't existed for thousands of years" when Bumi asked "how can he fly like that" (in 'Venom of The Red Lotus')". Flying is an ability exclusive to Guru Laghima (as far as we know), that much has been made clear. Otherwise it would've been stated that Guru Laghima AND the Avatar were the only people that have this ability.

      But hey, I could be wrong, Tenzin could be wrong, everyone in the Avatar world could be wrong and most of the Avatar fans could be wrong; and you could be in the right. But what are the chances of that :) . 

        Loading editor
    • Goldasanchez wrote:
      i think guru laghima is the best coz he invented the flying thingy lol :3


      Just because someone invented a technique doesn't make them the greatest. "The student" may become greater than "the master."

        Loading editor
    • Toph and Bumi were the greatest earthbenders in their time, but Buni didn't create any technique.

        Loading editor
    • Zaheer isn't a master per say but he is a very talented airbender.

        Loading editor
    • Mkamind wrote:
      Toph and Bumi were the greatest earthbenders in their time, but Buni didn't create any technique.

      In one of the comics, there is a storyline depicting a friendly fight between Toph and Bumi to see precisely who was the best.  Each held their own quite well albeit Toph's edge with metal bending. 

      Zaheer may have unlocked the old technique of flight, but in an 1-on-1 rematch I can easily see Tenzin bringing him down with a well aimed tornado. As many commented, the more experienced Tenzin had the edge over Zaheer until his other Red Lotus cohorts joined him. And Korra could have whipped his butt too (with airbending alone) if she had not been poisoned and had all her wits. 

      I agree with others that Zaheer is very talented and should be mentioned up there among the air benders depicted in the saga. But he should not be at the very top, IMHO. 

        Loading editor
    • Shark.933 wrote:

      This is the second time you've misinterpreted the point I am trying to get across. I repeat, I bought the Yangchen point up to emphasise that the Avatar is bound by the world and can, therefore, never be exempt from an "earthly tether". I'm using the Yangchen point as an example to illustrate something. I don't care if Aang went around it and didn't kill someone. That point is irrelevant.

      Secondly, it is not about a lack of wordly attachments, it is about complete detachment. In that sense, the ability to fly comes from spiritual enlightenment, in my opinion; because it is not an ability like metal bending, where you physically focus on the earth within the metal, or like bloodbending where you physically focus on water particles within a body--- in short, it is not something physical, so is therefore spiritual. The writers most probably got this idea from real-life monks, who seek detachment from the world as a spiritual practice.

      Lastly, Aang never flew. The air, within the "orb" that you mentioned, acts like a whirlwind (but in a ball shape) and holds Aang up. Aang physically controls that air to hold himself up. Zaheer, on the other hand, does not require gusts of air to hold him up, but can float effortlessly within it. He has essentially "become wind". More importantly, you have completely disregarded what I said in the second paragraph of my last post. I'm going to copy and paste it here for you again :). "Tenzin says it himself, "he's unlocked the powers of bending that haven't existed for thousands of years" when Bumi asked "how can he fly like that" (in 'Venom of The Red Lotus')". Flying is an ability exclusive to Guru Laghima (as far as we know), that much has been made clear. Otherwise it would've been stated that Guru Laghima AND the Avatar were the only people that have this ability.

      But hey, I could be wrong, Tenzin could be wrong, everyone in the Avatar world could be wrong and most of the Avatar fans could be wrong; and you could be in the right. But what are the chances of that :) . 

      I'm not misinterpreting, I just don't think you truely understand the point you're trying to bring across. The avatar is "bound to the world" in a metaphorical sense, not in a true sense. It also isn't about complete detachment. Complete detachment means letting go of absolutely everything, including the instinct to live, or to complete your goals. That isn't what Zaheer did. He let go of his emotional attachments. Aang had those emotional attachments, but let go of them during his battle with the firelord. This isn't to say that he didn't pick them back up after the battle was done, or that he could detach himself from them during major events or battles.

      Also, when Yangchen mentioned that his duty was towards the world, she spoke that this was in regards to the taking of someone's life, which may offer up emotions that could keep you bound to the world. The avatar certainly has nothing stopping them from achieving enlightenment other than their emotions or feelings. Take away Raava and the ability to bend all four elements and you have an average person. Just saying the avatar can't achieve enlightenment because the avatar is the avatar is just rubbish.

      As to the air, whirlwind thing, I gather you don't know how a storm works. Hell, guru Laghima's little saying about entering the void makes it clear. There is an "eye of the storm" from which the wind cannot harm you. It happens to be in the center. Aang was in this center. Admittedly, I won't discard the theory, but I'm not going to give it up as the only theory after seeing this last season. The orb of air may have been part of a representation, and as use as a weapon.

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!
      Exactly.
      Boggy.... They're making fun of you.....
      How stupid do you think I am? I know that. And they're not "making fun of me", they're joking.

      Oh yes they are. They like to mock you for being such a smartass. Some fans might not know the Avatar universe as much as you claim you are, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and you in any way have no right to shush them out, unless if the person in question is some troll like Philip9876.

        Loading editor
    • ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Forget about Zaheer's flight advantages. Tenzin is more powerful than him, and could have defeated him if it wasn't for the other Red Lotus members. Besides, Zaheer never did fly during his battle with Tenzin. Perhaps he couldn't do it at the time.

      What do you mean "perhaps"? Of course he couldn't do it at the time, he only learned to fly in the episode after his battle with Tenzin. With the power of flight however, he'd absolutely wreck Tenzin.

        Loading editor
    • SpiritBending wrote:

      I'm not misinterpreting, I just don't think you truely understand the point you're trying to bring across. The avatar is "bound to the world" in a metaphorical sense, not in a true sense. It also isn't about complete detachment. Complete detachment means letting go of absolutely everything, including the instinct to live, or to complete your goals. That isn't what Zaheer did. He let go of his emotional attachments. Aang had those emotional attachments, but let go of them during his battle with the firelord. This isn't to say that he didn't pick them back up after the battle was done, or that he could detach himself from them during major events or battles.

      Also, when Yangchen mentioned that his duty was towards the world, she spoke that this was in regards to the taking of someone's life, which may offer up emotions that could keep you bound to the world. The avatar certainly has nothing stopping them from achieving enlightenment other than their emotions or feelings. Take away Raava and the ability to bend all four elements and you have an average person. Just saying the avatar can't achieve enlightenment because the avatar is the avatar is just rubbish.

      As to the air, whirlwind thing, I gather you don't know how a storm works. Hell, guru Laghima's little saying about entering the void makes it clear. There is an "eye of the storm" from which the wind cannot harm you. It happens to be in the center. Aang was in this center. Admittedly, I won't discard the theory, but I'm not going to give it up as the only theory after seeing this last season. The orb of air may have been part of a representation, and as use as a weapon.


      Oh boy. So you're telling me, I don't understand the point that I'm trying to get across. Makes sense. Also, I know being "bound to the world" is in a metaphorical sense; nothing I said so far suggests to the contrary. So again, you're misinterpreting. 

      You seem to be contradicting yourself quite a bit. First you say you need a "lack of worldly attachments" and now you say Zaheer "let go of his earthly attachments" (aka detachment; the very thing I've been saying all this time). Those two concepts are quite different, please stick to one. Moreover, Zaheer did let go of his "instinct(s)", because "Instinct is a lie/ Told by a fearful body/ Hoping to be wrong". Do you not see, through P'li's death he detached himself from his earthly affections and by falling backwards off a cliff, he detached himself from his base survival instincts. Zaheer has ticked all of Laghima's criteria to flying, something Aang couldn't do.

      Yangchen says, "many great and wise air nomads have detached themselves and achieved spiritual enlightenment. But the Avatar can never do it, because your sole duty is to the world". I don't know what you're arguing, but that quote serves as concrete evidence that the Avatar is bound to the world. You cannot say something like, "[t]ake away Raava and the ability to bend all four elements and you have an average person", as it's because of Raava and the four elements that the Avatar is not an average person and is, consequently, bound to the world as it is their job to be selfless and restore balance to the world. 

      Also, you gathered wrong. I studied geography at quite a high academic level, so I think I would know something about how a storm works, thank you very much :) . Laghima's saying about "enter[ing] the void" has absolutely nothing to do with Aang's state in the orb or with an eye of a storm. A void is an empty abyss of nothingness, which relates back to the detachment point. "Enter[ing] the void" should be interpreted as embracing nothingness (like Zaheer did) and not be interpreted as the eye of a storm. The next part of the saying confirms it (Enter the void. Empty and become wind."). You're drawing correlations between two things that have no relevance, but refuse to draw correlations between two things that have some relevance. 

      And, as per usual, you completely ignored the Tenzin quote which stated Zaheer's the only person to have unlocked the art of flying after thousands of years.

      I think this will be my last post on this matter, for I fear things will start to get sour. You can remain wilfully ignorant and believe Aang could fly, if you wish; but I have done my bit, by trying to convince you with actual quotes and stuff, but your mind seems to be set so I don't see why I should spare the effort. Of course, I could be horribly disproved next season; but as far as we know presently, Aang never flew like Zaheer.

        Loading editor
    • If you have ever taken martial arts, you would know that mastery over one technique, even a difficult one, does not make you a master of the art.

      Tenzin is an air bending master, Zaheer is not, he only mastered one technique, possibly a couple more.  Tenzin wins.  Besides, you guys are acting like weightlessness is an impossible technique, but the original air benders, sky bison, do it all the time...

        Loading editor
    • well I took karate in elementary and middle school and even though I got my brown belt that did not make me any more skilled than some of the purple belts who practiced much more than I did. and the sky bison didn't master weightlessness the use their airbending to float like an airbender uses a glider.

        Loading editor
    • Agree with Thoryn, I don't think that the sky bison managed to master weightlessness either and do indeed use airbending. I doubt the original benders can master sub-forms/secondary forms of a bending ability. I mean, I didn't see dragons generate lightning or badger moles metalbend...

      I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident I'm not.

        Loading editor
    • now i want to see a dragon redirect lightning and a badger mole metalbend. even then in order to master weightlessness you need to denounce all earthly desires in order to be unbound from the earth (which is something i probably would never do because i can be materialistic which i hate about myself.) and many people can't just denounce all desires the only reason Zaheer could was because he saw P'li die a very MINDBLOWING death.

        Loading editor
    • Shark.933 wrote:


      Oh boy. So you're telling me, I don't understand the point that I'm trying to get across. Makes sense. Also, I know being "bound to the world" is in a metaphorical sense; nothing I said so far suggests to the contrary. So again, you're misinterpreting. 

      You seem to be contradicting yourself quite a bit. First you say you need a "lack of worldly attachments" and now you say Zaheer "let go of his earthly attachments" (aka detachment; the very thing I've been saying all this time). Those two concepts are quite different, please stick to one. Moreover, Zaheer did let go of his "instinct(s)", because "Instinct is a lie/ Told by a fearful body/ Hoping to be wrong". Do you not see, through P'li's death he detached himself from his earthly affections and by falling backwards off a cliff, he detached himself from his base survival instincts. Zaheer has ticked all of Laghima's criteria to flying, something Aang couldn't do.

      Yangchen says, "many great and wise air nomads have detached themselves and achieved spiritual enlightenment. But the Avatar can never do it, because your sole duty is to the world". I don't know what you're arguing, but that quote serves as concrete evidence that the Avatar is bound to the world. You cannot say something like, "[t]ake away Raava and the ability to bend all four elements and you have an average person", as it's because of Raava and the four elements that the Avatar is not an average person and is, consequently, bound to the world as it is their job to be selfless and restore balance to the world. 

      Also, you gathered wrong. I studied geography at quite a high academic level, so I think I would know something about how a storm works, thank you very much :) . Laghima's saying about "enter[ing] the void" has absolutely nothing to do with Aang's state in the orb or with an eye of a storm. A void is an empty abyss of nothingness, which relates back to the detachment point. "Enter[ing] the void" should be interpreted as embracing nothingness (like Zaheer did) and not be interpreted as the eye of a storm. The next part of the saying confirms it (Enter the void. Empty and become wind."). You're drawing correlations between two things that have no relevance, but refuse to draw correlations between two things that have some relevance. 

      And, as per usual, you completely ignored the Tenzin quote which stated Zaheer's the only person to have unlocked the art of flying after thousands of years.

      I think this will be my last post on this matter, for I fear things will start to get sour. You can remain wilfully ignorant and believe Aang could fly, if you wish; but I have done my bit, by trying to convince you with actual quotes and stuff, but your mind seems to be set so I don't see why I should spare the effort. Of course, I could be horribly disproved next season; but as far as we know presently, Aang never flew like Zaheer.

      Pretty sure you did suggest otherwise:

      I bought the Yangchen point up because I wanted to emphasise that Aang's "earthly tether" is the world.

      Pretty sure that means you've taken things in a literal sense rather than a metaphorical one. Now it seems your trying to run back on that and blame me for misinterpreting? I think not.

      Moving on, worldly and earthly attachments are one and the same. The earth is the world, the world is the earth. One is the other. There is no difference between the two, and the attachments based on one mean the same to the other. As for the other, I'm not arguing that he let go of his love, however, this doesn't mean he let go of his will to live either, which in turn means completely disregarding his body, giving in and dieing, not to mention that he didn't let go of his goals, which were bringing about chaos and killing the avatar.

      I think you're missing the point where he proved Yangchen wrong and found another way, and that it was Yangchen's opinion, not a solid fact. I suggest you watch A:TLA again if you missed the bit where she suggested that his duty to the world was in regards to ending the life of any threat. Yangchen was a particularly good avatar, but also rather practical and narrow minded. While she achieved many great things and brought about a couple of generations peace, she wasn't particularly open in her views. And may I remind you that Raava is a spirit and isn't bound to the physical world, nor did she originate from it? She has no earthly ties, and no part of the avatar bonding with her means that the avatar must therefore be bound to the world. Certainly, if anything, the avatars ability to enter the spirit world via meditation proves this.

      ....Geography? Really? You're going to use geography as an "excuse" when the study of storms is referred to as Meteorology? Geography is the study of landmasses, not storms. Also, I did not discard the theory that Aang could have been taken along in the orb of wind, which you have assumed, and misread, that I have done. I have in fact, taken in the possibility that both could potentially be true, but might take the flying attribute as its meaning, as Aang let go of all his attachments during his battle with Ozai. And while the saying is metaphorical, it also stands as a literal, as flying requires no gusts of wind to push an individual.

      And ever considered that perhaps Zaheer was the only one to have truely unlocked the skill? As I stated earlier, and I will state again, Aang may have temporarily have been able to do this (along with the avatar spirit boosting him), but in the long term, failed to master it, therefore, not truely unlocking the secret.

      As for my mind being set, I find you rather close minded. While I'm open to both possibilities, you yourself have taken to stating that it must be the one without taking into consideration that the potential is there for both to be taken into account.

        Loading editor
    • Well done :)

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      well I took karate in elementary and middle school and even though I got my brown belt that did not make me any more skilled than some of the purple belts who practiced much more than I did. and the sky bison didn't master weightlessness the use their airbending to float like an airbender uses a glider.


      I took Choy Li Fut(9 years - master), Aikido(6 years) - black belt, Kenjitsu(3 years).  What you attended is a called McDojo if what you say is true, that lower belts were more skilled than higher belts.  I was referring to REAL martial arts.

      Ummmmm, and how exactly is a sky bison floating NOT the same as what Zaheer is doing?  An air bender uses a glider, BECAUSE they cannot float like a bison, or Zaheer or Laghima.

        Loading editor
    • Shark.933 wrote:
      Agree with Thoryn, I don't think that the sky bison managed to master weightlessness either and do indeed use airbending. I doubt the original benders can master sub-forms/secondary forms of a bending ability. I mean, I didn't see dragons generate lightning or badger moles metalbend...

      I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident I'm not.

      It is pretty clear to me, that Zaheer and Laghima's technique IS IN FACT air bending.  Proof: Tenzin and everyone else's referral to the technique as an air bending technique.  Besides the artwork of the show illustrating the air currents as he flys, the direct referral to this as air bending seems proof positive that one must air bend to do it.  If I am wrong, then why don't all air benders fly without the glider by simply using air bending like the bison.  The answer is very clear, because flying/floating IS air bending, just a technique that few master.


      I would surmise that floating is similar to the concept in Shaolin based martial arts of yin techniques.

        Loading editor
    • Kuatomonk wrote:
      Shark.933 wrote:
      Agree with Thoryn, I don't think that the sky bison managed to master weightlessness either and do indeed use airbending. I doubt the original benders can master sub-forms/secondary forms of a bending ability. I mean, I didn't see dragons generate lightning or badger moles metalbend...

      I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident I'm not.

      It is pretty clear to me, that Zaheer and Laghima's technique IS IN FACT air bending.  Proof: Tenzin and everyone else's referral to the technique as an air bending technique.  Besides the artwork of the show illustrating the air currents as he flys, the direct referral to this as air bending seems proof positive that one must air bend to do it.  If I am wrong, then why don't all air benders fly without the glider by simply using air bending like the bison.  The answer is very clear, because flying/floating IS air bending, just a technique that few master.


      I would surmise that floating is similar to the concept in Shaolin based martial arts of yin techniques.


      You misunderstand. I did not try to assert that flying is not airbending. I was trying to say that the sky bison use base airbending in order to fly, and do not use the sub/secondary skill of airbending (i.e. weightless flying like Zaheer).

      Apologies, should've made it clearer. 

      Apologies, I should've made it clearer. 

        Loading editor
    • Shark.933 wrote:
      Kuatomonk wrote:
      Shark.933 wrote:
      Agree with Thoryn, I don't think that the sky bison managed to master weightlessness either and do indeed use airbending. I doubt the original benders can master sub-forms/secondary forms of a bending ability. I mean, I didn't see dragons generate lightning or badger moles metalbend...

      I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident I'm not.

      It is pretty clear to me, that Zaheer and Laghima's technique IS IN FACT air bending.  Proof: Tenzin and everyone else's referral to the technique as an air bending technique.  Besides the artwork of the show illustrating the air currents as he flys, the direct referral to this as air bending seems proof positive that one must air bend to do it.  If I am wrong, then why don't all air benders fly without the glider by simply using air bending like the bison.  The answer is very clear, because flying/floating IS air bending, just a technique that few master.
      I would surmise that floating is similar to the concept in Shaolin based martial arts of yin techniques.
      You misunderstand. I did not try to assert that flying is not airbending. I was trying to say that the sky bison use base airbending in order to fly, and do not use the sub/secondary skill of airbending (i.e. weightless flying like Zaheer).

      Apologies, should've made it clearer. 

      Apologies, I should've made it clearer. 


      No worries.  I understood you.  I see a sub skill as still part of the larger whole...the art.  Similar to a punch vs. a 1 inch punch.  Both are still kung fu.  I also don't see a difference in what a bison does vs Zaheer.  I guess the disconnect is that I don't think Zaheer is literally weightless("empty and become wind"), just offsetting his weight with an advanced technique...a technique that bison do all the time, like Kai's bison when he rescued Tenzin and crew, it just floated there, waiting, not flapping.  Maybe an animation mistake.  In Shaolin martial arts, the inspiration for many of the techniques came from animals.  Animals, like the bison in avatar universe, were admired for the very fact that they can empty their mind, largely because there isn't alot in it unlike humans.  If learning tiger form, you must fight like the tiger, not just with muscles, but in mind.  Basically, when an animal fights, they are ONLY thinking of the fight in each moment of the present.  The concept of "no mind", their mind is empty, it is nowhere, therefore, they are concentrating on everything at once.

      I have to admit a bias here though.  I could not call someone a better Choy Li Fut artist, unless they had mastered more than me to a greater degree on the art as a whole.  They may be better fighters, or even better at some techniques, but a better master of the art form, I can't make the stretch.

      Plus, If Zaheer is good, it is because of Laghima's trail blazing.  Laghima rules.  Oh, and I think Monk Gyatso would hand Zaheer's @$$ to him just like Tenzin would have.

      As to the dragons and lightening and the badger moles and metal bending...Metal does not really exist in the earth, refined metal the way we think of it.  Ore is in the sand, the rocks, and pretty much in all of them to some degree.  Earth benders bend ore all the time.  Since metal is refined ore, you need a refined art.  Badger moles don't encounter refined ore in their environment, so no need to bend it.  Similar with respect to dragons.  I think Iroh said it is a cold fire, and dragons would consider it a perversion of true fire bending.

      Either way, it is fun to nerd out on this.  With respect to Zaheer, he blew my mind with the suffocation technique.  I just never thought about that as a weapon for an air bender.

        Loading editor
    • The Creators were in an interview talking about Zaheer already being a great martial artist. He said when ever people like that obtain a simple object or thing, they turn it into a weapon. Airbending became Zaheer's ultimate weapon, so he could adapt to it really well. I too did not expect to see that. I felt bad for the Queen when it happened.

        Loading editor
    • That's probably how Gyatso killed all those firebenders.

        Loading editor
    • I do not believe that Zaheer is a true airbender. A true airbender would never use their abilities for to suffocate someone. If Zaheer had done that in self-defense, maybe it would be excusable.

        Loading editor
    • No, he's definitely an airbender. 

      What he's not is a particularly skilled airbender.  He's an empowered badass-normal who caught on how to integrate his newly acquired airbending with his previously established fighting skill.  But because it gave him such an edge—just about no one knows how to counter airbending any longer, after all—he got hubristic and fancied himself an airbending master in all but name.  (Hence Tenzin, who does know how to counter it, mopping the roof with him until P'Li intervened.)

      He's also not an Air Nomad.  He's a smug, brutal, rebel-without-a-clue wannabe-doomsday-cultist who has no real grasp of the Air Nomads' cultural principles and cherry-picked the parts that he liked.  And he went all the more off the deep end when P'Li died.

        Loading editor
    • I liked the concept of Zaheer though

      For 10,000 years, all Air Benders were peaceful nomads with restricted ways of using Air Bending, then when they returned after harmonic converge it was used for varied purposes. I disliked Tenzin trying to force people into the Air Nomad culture and wanted to see how people would use Air Bending in their own ways

      Zaheer, the main example used it as the ultimate weapon. Thanks to him for not following peaceful ways we can finally have an airbending antagonist

        Loading editor
    • Kuatomonk wrote:
      Shark.933 wrote:
      Kuatomonk wrote:
      Shark.933 wrote:
      Agree with Thoryn, I don't think that the sky bison managed to master weightlessness either and do indeed use airbending. I doubt the original benders can master sub-forms/secondary forms of a bending ability. I mean, I didn't see dragons generate lightning or badger moles metalbend...

      I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident I'm not.

      It is pretty clear to me, that Zaheer and Laghima's technique IS IN FACT air bending.  Proof: Tenzin and everyone else's referral to the technique as an air bending technique.  Besides the artwork of the show illustrating the air currents as he flys, the direct referral to this as air bending seems proof positive that one must air bend to do it.  If I am wrong, then why don't all air benders fly without the glider by simply using air bending like the bison.  The answer is very clear, because flying/floating IS air bending, just a technique that few master.
      I would surmise that floating is similar to the concept in Shaolin based martial arts of yin techniques.
      You misunderstand. I did not try to assert that flying is not airbending. I was trying to say that the sky bison use base airbending in order to fly, and do not use the sub/secondary skill of airbending (i.e. weightless flying like Zaheer).

      Apologies, should've made it clearer. 

      Apologies, I should've made it clearer. 


      No worries.  I understood you.  I see a sub skill as still part of the larger whole...the art.  Similar to a punch vs. a 1 inch punch.  Both are still kung fu.  I also don't see a difference in what a bison does vs Zaheer.  I guess the disconnect is that I don't think Zaheer is literally weightless("empty and become wind"), just offsetting his weight with an advanced technique...a technique that bison do all the time, like Kai's bison when he rescued Tenzin and crew, it just floated there, waiting, not flapping.  Maybe an animation mistake.  In Shaolin martial arts, the inspiration for many of the techniques came from animals.  Animals, like the bison in avatar universe, were admired for the very fact that they can empty their mind, largely because there isn't alot in it unlike humans.  If learning tiger form, you must fight like the tiger, not just with muscles, but in mind.  Basically, when an animal fights, they are ONLY thinking of the fight in each moment of the present.  The concept of "no mind", their mind is empty, it is nowhere, therefore, they are concentrating on everything at once.

      I have to admit a bias here though.  I could not call someone a better Choy Li Fut artist, unless they had mastered more than me to a greater degree on the art as a whole.  They may be better fighters, or even better at some techniques, but a better master of the art form, I can't make the stretch.

      Plus, If Zaheer is good, it is because of Laghima's trail blazing.  Laghima rules.  Oh, and I think Monk Gyatso would hand Zaheer's @$$ to him just like Tenzin would have.

      As to the dragons and lightening and the badger moles and metal bending...Metal does not really exist in the earth, refined metal the way we think of it.  Ore is in the sand, the rocks, and pretty much in all of them to some degree.  Earth benders bend ore all the time.  Since metal is refined ore, you need a refined art.  Badger moles don't encounter refined ore in their environment, so no need to bend it.  Similar with respect to dragons.  I think Iroh said it is a cold fire, and dragons would consider it a perversion of true fire bending.

      Either way, it is fun to nerd out on this.  With respect to Zaheer, he blew my mind with the suffocation technique.  I just never thought about that as a weapon for an air bender.

      Lol, I just realised I derped my last post by saying "apologies, I should've made it clearer" twice -.-

      Anyways, back to the point, I really do think they goofed the animations with the sky bison unless they really did master weightlessness. They kind of do that with the dragons as well, if you rewatch some of the ATLA scenes. The dragons sort of float in midair...

      But I agree, I too think Zaheer is good, but not the greatest. The only reason he can do some of the things other airbenders don't, is because the other airbenders CHOOSE not to. Firstly, they choose not to choke a b*tch. Secondly, Gyatso could've probably flown himself, but he was way too attached to Aang and it was his own choice to stay attached to him. Even Tenzin could proabably fly, but he too is attached to his family and friends. 

      Similar to what Thoryn said, I doubt airbenders want to lose that touch with humanity, like Zaheer has, in order to achieve something so trivial in comparison. I, sure as hell, wouldn't want that myself.

        Loading editor
    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      No, he's definitely an airbender. 

      What he's not is a particularly skilled airbender.  He's an empowered badass-normal who caught on how to integrate his newly acquired airbending with his previously established fighting skill.  But because it gave him such an edge—just about no one knows how to counter airbending any longer, after all—he got hubristic and fancied himself an airbending master in all but name.  (Hence Tenzin, who does know how to counter it, mopping the roof with him until P'Li intervened.)

      He's also not an Air Nomad.  He's a smug, brutal, rebel-without-a-clue wannabe-doomsday-cultist who has no real grasp of the Air Nomads' cultural principles and cherry-picked the parts that he liked.  And he went all the more off the deep end when P'Li died.

      I know he is an airbender. He is just not a true one.

        Loading editor
    • Mayabelle wrote:
      Deist Zealot wrote:
      No, he's definitely an airbender. 

      What he's not is a particularly skilled airbender.  He's an empowered badass-normal who caught on how to integrate his newly acquired airbending with his previously established fighting skill.  But because it gave him such an edge—just about no one knows how to counter airbending any longer, after all—he got hubristic and fancied himself an airbending master in all but name.  (Hence Tenzin, who does know how to counter it, mopping the roof with him until P'Li intervened.)

      He's also not an Air Nomad.  He's a smug, brutal, rebel-without-a-clue wannabe-doomsday-cultist who has no real grasp of the Air Nomads' cultural principles and cherry-picked the parts that he liked.  And he went all the more off the deep end when P'Li died.

      I know he is an airbender. He is just not a true one.

      Being an airbender is determined by possessing the ability to airbend, not by adherence to a philosophy.  Unless he spent all of Book 3 hiding a bunch of tiny battery-powered fans under his tunic, he's as "true" as they get.

      Again: what he's not is either an Air Nomad or part of the new Air Nation.  He doesn't really get their principles, because he's an unprincipled bastard.

        Loading editor
    • That was funny. The thought of Zaheer this whole time being a nonbender this whole time intrigues me.

        Loading editor
    • IAmNothing712 wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      AvatarKatar wrote:
      ~Boggy B~ wrote:
      Shazer wrote:
      Indeed the wise Boggy B has spoken so it MUST be true!
      Exactly.
      Boggy.... They're making fun of you.....
      How stupid do you think I am? I know that. And they're not "making fun of me", they're joking.
      Oh yes they are. They like to mock you for being such a smartass. Some fans might not know the Avatar universe as much as you claim you are, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and you in any way have no right to shush them out, unless if the person in question is some troll like Philip9876.

      Hello "IAmNothing712" (wow, your own username insults you), since when was I trying to force my opinion onto anyone? Zaheer not being the greatest airbender who ever lived was obviously a fact, not an opinion. Am I being a "smartass" right now? I'm not even trying. Some people were wrong so I corrected them, I'm just giving out facts. Now tell me, are you here to discuss the topic, or are you here to just spark another argument and call me a "smartass"? Apparently you're not even discussing the topic, so go mind your own business. You are nothing indeed, nothing but an annoying ass. Good day, sir.

        Loading editor
    • Boggy B, I'm only going to give you one warning; you just came back from a block. Don't go around starting up old arguments again. The other people have all moved on. You're welcome to discuss your ideas and opinions, but do it civilly.

        Loading editor
    • Fruipit wrote:
      Boggy B, I'm only going to give you one warning; you just came back from a block. Don't go around starting up old arguments again. The other people have all moved on. You're welcome to discuss your ideas and opinions, but do it civilly.

      I already said I'm leaving this wiki, and this is the last time I'm saying that. I just had to take care of some things first after my block expired, now I'm done. So I'm ready to leave. Bye.

        Loading editor
    • Wow, I sure missed one hell of a thing, didn't I?

        Loading editor
    • No, I would be Guru Laghima. He discovered that airbenders could enter the void and was very wise.

        Loading editor
    • Toph is the greatest earthbender and airbender!!!!!!

        Loading editor
    • I say Jinora is the greatest airbender ever.  She can't fly, but she can project her spirit to different places.  Plus, she's got her tattoos.

        Loading editor
    • lets wait until an airbender creates soundbending.

        Loading editor
    • the method zaheer used to gain flight is just one method to gain flight, there is absolutely no reason to believe that is the only method

        Loading editor
    • i don't think zahir is the best airbender.... he is really good but as some said, tenzin could have won alone. also, he wad able to fly because of his lose (of pli) and not like the air nomads'who are kind of happy. hi's good, but not the best

        Loading editor
    • An anonymous contributor
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message