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  • Is astral projection an airbending sub-skill?
     
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    The poll was created at 21:29 on July 25, 2014, and so far 215 people voted.

    If I remember correctly, Jinora mentioned to Kai that astral projection is a high level of airbending with a little spiritutality involved and it was easier to perform during Harmonic Convergence. When she said the "high level" part, then to me that sounds like it's a sub-skill to airbending as much as bloodbending is to waterbending and lightning-bending is to fire. To me, the way that Jinora described it makes it sound like the other sub-skills. And the fact that only Jinora has been able to perform the skill appeals to me as a sub-skill as well. All the other sub-skills are high levels of bending like astral projection is. Astral projection has spirituality involved, just like airbending. See the connection? And the way that astral projection is easier to perform during a time of high spirituality makes it sound other sub-skills, like how bloodbending is easier to perform during a full moon.

    In my opinion, astral projection fits the description of a sub-skill for reasons listed above and it deserves a place in the Airbending page on this wiki (it looks like it already has a place on the Specialized bending techniques page). I made the poll to see what others would say regarding this subject.

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    • Yes. I think we should add that to specialized techniques/sub-skill section. And I admire your logic.

      It drives me nuts when people ignore or deny a canon information when it's clear enough and await a full explanation. Sometimes fans can figure something out by using their logic and critical thinking.

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    • The way I see it, Astral projection can only be performed by highly spiritual Airbenders and, of course, the avatar. Basically, Waterbenders, Earthbenders and Firebenders, no matter how spiritual they are, can never learn this skill.

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    • Jinora said it's a high-level airbender move with a little spiritual stuff thrown in. So, i think it was confirmed as an airbending sub-skill.

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    • I would honestly hope that airbending has a more intense sub skill than astral projection, I think that levitation could be a sub skill, mentioned with Guru Laghima. Although it has not been seen in an episode yet, that would be much cooler. Or flgiht without the glider but with clouds like the airbenders from Avatar Wan's time.

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    • Perhaps this is what Zaheer meant when he quoted Guru Laghima's feat. He's seen in the 7th episode utilizing the same ability as Jinora to determine Korra's whereabouts.

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    • In regards to Zaheer being able to find out where Korra was, i think there are two possible reasons. 

      1. Zaheer has some sort of connection with Korra. When Jinora was able to find Kai and the other airbenders, it was because she had a deep connection with him. 

      2. Zaheer may have been sensing Aiwei and somehow felt Korra through him.

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    • My sentiments can be seen in Talk:Airbending. Other than that, I try to stay out of this argument, because there's nothing to say in response to people yelling at you for "denying evidence" when they actually don't have that much evidence in the 1st place, & rely mostly on assumptions, like "there are different kinds of spiritual projection."

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    • Wait, I just remembered, Korra utilized a similar technique during her battle with UnaVaatu. Was what she did during that battle (projecting a giant spirit form of herself) the same thing as what Jinora did? When I researched that technique on this wiki, it seems that people think what she did was a form of energybending rather than Astral Projection. Was it indicated in the episode where that happened that Korra's technique to defeat UnaVaatu was a form of energybending rather than a form of Astral Projection? If not, then the wiki pages need fixing because Jinora is not the only person shown to display that skill.

      @Neo Bahamut: How is the evidence not concrete and simply "assumptions"? It was stated quite clearly by Jinora that Astral Projection is an advanced form of airbending with a little spirituality involved. And besides, the creators of LOK confirmed themselves that there will be an airbending sub-skill. Whether or not it's Astral Projection is not 100% clear as of now (actually, maybe it is, since none of the other sub-skills were clearly defined as "sub-skills" so I don't see how the confirmation that Astral Projection is an airbending sub-skill can be more clearer than this) but we definitely know that there is in fact a sub-skill of airbending.

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    • Read "Talk:Airbending." That's why I mentioned it.

      While you're at it, look back on the scenes explaining the other subskills. Observe that they involved actual explanations.

      Also, it was said that there would be a new Airbending Subskill at Momocon, by Sifu Kisu. Mike & Bryan were not present.

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    • I just don't understand how it works... because projecting your spirit requires no airbending.... as far as we know... every other sub skill has the base roots of the basic bending skill. To me it just doesn't add up and I won't be until the creators tell us.

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    • Interesting thing about the "promised" subskill that I was shown recently:

      http://intelligence4.tumblr.com/post/93450514015/a-while-ago-at-momocon-i-believe-you-confirmed-that

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Interesting thing about the "promised" subskill that I was shown recently:

      http://intelligence4.tumblr.com/post/93450514015/a-while-ago-at-momocon-i-believe-you-confirmed-that

      That's interesting and frustrating all at the same time :( its so vague 

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    • KaylaT wrote:
      I just don't understand how it works... because projecting your spirit requires no airbending.... as far as we know... every other sub skill has the base roots of the basic bending skill. To me it just doesn't add up and I won't be until the creators tell us.

      Jinora said it's a high level airbending move with a little bit spirituality thrown in. I don't understand why is it still a matter of discussion?

      Oh. And it doesn't really matter if Sifu Kisu says he didn't promise anything at this point. We got astral projection regardless.

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    • Klainatta wrote:
      KaylaT wrote:
      I just don't understand how it works... because projecting your spirit requires no airbending.... as far as we know... every other sub skill has the base roots of the basic bending skill. To me it just doesn't add up and I won't be until the creators tell us.
      Jinora said it's a high level airbending move with a little bit spirituality thrown in. I don't understand why is it still a matter of discussion?

      Oh. And it doesn't really matter if Sifu Kisu says he didn't promise anything at this point. We got astral projection regardless.

      Ok so I get why you don't understand why its up for discussion but when you compare it to the other substyles it doesn't have any of the basic basis of its original element. There is literally no air involved. 

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    • Klainatta wrote:

      KaylaT wrote:
      I just don't understand how it works... because projecting your spirit requires no airbending.... as far as we know... every other sub skill has the base roots of the basic bending skill. To me it just doesn't add up and I won't be until the creators tell us.

      Jinora said it's a high level airbending move with a little bit spirituality thrown in. I don't understand why is it still a matter of discussion?

      Oh. And it doesn't really matter if Sifu Kisu says he didn't promise anything at this point. We got astral projection regardless.

      You THINK you got it. Everyone swore up & down that "the creators said that there will be a subskill." But no, it couldn't be possible that you're jumping to conclusions again, THIS time is different, because reasons.

      And that's all that I have to say about that.

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    • I think people are jumping to the subskill conclusion because they're assuming "airbender" in "airbender move" implies that it's a form of airbending, as opposed to "airbender" referring to airbender culture. Since airbender culture teaches detachment from earthly things and highly values spirituality, it makes perfect sense that Jinora would consider it an "airbender move". That doesn't make it a sub skill of airbending, though. Similarly you might consider Tenzin's cleansing ritual an airbender technique, while it's not apparent that any airbending was involved at all.

      Granted, the series itself seems to mix the two up all the time. Just look at how Tenzin's telling people they're suddenly part of the airbender culture now because they can airbend.

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    • Jeez people. Chill. Firebenders bending lightining is total bs but no one is crying over it. Healing doesn't make any sense too. No water starts glowing and heals you. Astral projection can be done by airbenders. I see no problem with it. You know bending itself is spiritual...

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    • Klainatta wrote:
      Jeez people. Chill. Firebenders bending lightining is total bs but no one is crying over it. Healing doesn't make any sense too. No water starts glowing and heals you. Astral projection can be done by airbenders. I see no problem with it. You know bending itself is spiritual...

      Both make perfect sense? I know lightning is abit strange when you relate it to fire but its all to do with energy and power. And water has been used for healing remedy since god knows how long! There is water in in the body so you manipulate it to heal and rebuild the tissues. And it glows to show that the healing is happening other wise it just looks like normal water and thats just boring

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    • Connecting lightning and fire makes perfect sense, really. The light from lightning comes from the gases that suddenly become superheated as electricity surges through and around them. The thunder comes from those gases suddenly and violently expanding. The gases in and around the lightning channel quite literally explode as the lightning rushes through. Also noteworthy, electrons play a pivotal role in fire. The phenomenon we know as flames in fact consist of photons emitted by energized "excited" electrons. And the process by which electrons become "excited" can also cause electrons to seperate from the rest of the atom when sufficiently high levels of energy are used, causing ionization. (Btw ionized gas = plasma, lightning is a form of plasma.)

      The problem with interpreting astral projection as a special form of airbending isn't that it seems weird, paranormal or completely different from regular airbending. The problem is that it doesn't incorporate any air in its use. If Jinora's astral projection involved becoming one with the air and transporting one's consciousness through it, that might make it airbending, but the series already rules this out by having Jinora project her consciousness into the abandoned Lake Laogai base that's now completely flooded.

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    • that's why i'm inclined to believe jinora saying "airbender move" isn't refering to airbending itself, but the culture.

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    • hopefully we'll find out more in "enter the void"

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    • Supermensch wrote:
      Connecting lightning and fire makes perfect sense, really. The light from lightning comes from the gases that suddenly become superheated as electricity surges through and around them. The thunder comes from those gases suddenly and violently expanding. The gases in and around the lightning channel quite literally explode as the lightning rushes through. Also noteworthy, electrons play a pivotal role in fire. The phenomenon we know as flames in fact consist of photons emitted by energized "excited" electrons. And the process by which electrons become "excited" can also cause electrons to seperate from the rest of atom when sufficiently high levels of energy are used, causing ionization. (Btw ionized gas = plasma, lightning is a form of plasma.)

      The problem with interpreting astral projection as a special form of airbending isn't that it seems weird, paranormal or completely different from regular airbending. The problem is that it doesn't incorporate any air in its use. If Jinora's astral projection involved becoming one with the air and transporting one's consciousness through it, that might make it airbending, but the series already rules this out by having Jinora project her consciousness into the abandoned Lake Laogai base that's now completely flooded.

      It could be possible that Astral projection  is not bound solely by the scientifc laws of the world as just mentioned.  The reasoning bieng that Astral projection is a spritual move not just a phsical one. Remember airbending is  the element of freedom. So its possible that one could use this philosophy to free themselves of there own boby. Just because there dosen't seem to be any airbending involved  dosen't mean that the creators won't show it latter on. After all Jinora did say that some airbending was required to Astal project and she should be the one to know  

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    • Joey shys wrote:
      Supermensch wrote:
      Connecting lightning and fire makes perfect sense, really. The light from lightning comes from the gases that suddenly become superheated as electricity surges through and around them. The thunder comes from those gases suddenly and violently expanding. The gases in and around the lightning channel quite literally explode as the lightning rushes through. Also noteworthy, electrons play a pivotal role in fire. The phenomenon we know as flames in fact consist of photons emitted by energized "excited" electrons. And the process by which electrons become "excited" can also cause electrons to seperate from the rest of atom when sufficiently high levels of energy are used, causing ionization. (Btw ionized gas = plasma, lightning is a form of plasma.)

      The problem with interpreting astral projection as a special form of airbending isn't that it seems weird, paranormal or completely different from regular airbending. The problem is that it doesn't incorporate any air in its use. If Jinora's astral projection involved becoming one with the air and transporting one's consciousness through it, that might make it airbending, but the series already rules this out by having Jinora project her consciousness into the abandoned Lake Laogai base that's now completely flooded.

      It could be possible that Astral projection  is not bound solely by the scientifc laws of the world as just mentioned.  The reasoning bieng that Astral projection is a spritual move not just a phsical one. Remember airbending is  the element of freedom. So its possible that one could use this philosophy to free themselves of there own boby. Just because there dosen't seem to be any airbending involved  dosen't mean that the creators won't show it latter on. After all Jinora did say that some airbending was required to Astal project and she should be the one to know  

      I'm not sure why you mention scientific laws in reference to astral projection. I was talking physics to illustrate the connection between fire and lightning. In relation to astral projection, all I said was that it doesn't involve any air, so it seems very counterintuitive to identify it as a form of air-bending AKA the bending discipline that involves the manipulation of air.

      But you're right, air is the element of freedom and there's this whole philosophy and way of life that's tied to airbending. This was exactly my point though; the technique of astral projection perfectly matches this airbender philosophy, which is why Jinora identifies it as an "airbender" thing. However, the philosophy is not the bending discipline itself. Not every activity that is typical of airbenders or matches with airbender philosophy should be identified as a form of airbending. Unless you want to add shaving one's head as an airbending subskill. :3

      Jinora's exact lines were "It's a high-level airbender move. With a little spiritual stuff thrown in." and it's worth noting that Jinora puts it this way so Kai quickly understands that it's a special ability of Jinora's and he doesn't need to be worried, since he initially freaked out because he thought Jinora was a ghost.

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    • Unless you want to add shaving one's head as an airbending subskill. :3

      Now that you mention it, yes I do. Really badly.

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    • But Aiwei isn't an air bender and he was able to leave his physical to go to the spirit world?

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    • Rmhanshaw158 wrote:
      But Aiwei isn't an air bender and he was able to leave his physical to go to the spirit world?

      Anyone can go into the Spirit World, benders and non- benders. Before Hormonic Convergence it took a lot of spiritual energy from within for a human's spirit to travel into the Spirit World. This is why the Avatar was the bridge. A small few spiritually inclined people visited the spirit world.

      Now after Harmonic Convergence. the connection between the Spirit World and physical world is much stronger making it easier, still difficult, but easier for humans to travel into the Spirit World.

      That's how I see it anyway.

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    • Jinora's words are: "It's a high-level airbender move. With a little spiritual stuff thrown in."

      Though, she probably meant that only the highest-level airbenders were capable of it. Not necessarily does that imply that ONLY airbenders can do it.

      I don't know about you guys, but to me, Aiwei was direct proof that more than just Airbenders are capable of Astral Projection. It's all just a matter of spirituality, and as it happens, the highest-level master Airbenders would naturally be the most inclined to such a capability. Out of a very spiritual society, the masters and gurus are the most spiritual.

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    • Shadowulf1 wrote:
      Jinora's words are: "It's a high-level airbender move. With a little spiritual stuff thrown in."

      Though, she probably meant that only the highest-level airbenders were capable of it. Not necessarily does that imply that ONLY airbenders can do it.

      I don't know about you guys, but to me, Aiwei was direct proof that more than just Airbenders are capable of Astral Projection. It's all just a matter of spirituality, and as it happens, the highest-level master Airbenders would naturally be the most inclined to such a capability. Out of a very spiritual society, the masters and gurus are the most spiritual.

      Personally, I consider entering the spirit world and spiritual projection to be two different things.

      Here's how I see it:

      Airbender Astral projection: Allows airbenders to project a ghost-like version of themselves into the physical world. While in this state, they cannot bend, be seen (with the exception of other spiritual people), or physically interact with the world. 

      It is my headcanon that Aang (albeit unintentionally) performed this move during his encounter with Hei Bai, as it looks identical to what Jinora is doing.

      Energybender Astral projection: Allows energybenders to project a physical energy version of themselves. During this state, they can bend, be seen by everyone and physically interact with the world.

      Korra did this while in the Tree of Time (and yes, this very wiki identifies what she did as a subskill of enerbybending)

      Traveling to the Spirit World: Allows a person to travel into the spirit world. This move can be performed by all benders and (possibly) non-benders.

      We know that Iroh could do it, he did it at least once before the events of the series and also did it one last time in order to permanently move into the spirit world.

      Many people seem to classify traveling to the spirit world as Astral Projection. But the reason I consider them distinct is the simple that you're not really projecting your spirit by traveling to the spirit world, it's more like you're transporting your soul to another plane of existence and then back again, whereas astral projection involves literally projection your soul to let it roam throughout the physical world.

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    • AsianAvatar101 wrote:
      Was it indicated in the episode where that happened that Korra's technique to defeat UnaVaatu was a form of energybending rather than a form of Astral Projection? If not, then the wiki pages need fixing because Jinora is not the only person shown to display that skill.

      It wasn't indicated but it is something of known, atleast in terms. Astral projecting doesn't allow the person to fight. Its basically a ghost and one that can't move things really, which is why when Jinora does it she is usally looking around and listening and interacting with things.

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    • The Wikia editor pretty much explained it all...

      Personally I feel it is just a energy bending sub form that can be achieved by anyone. hence Ai Wei and Iroh's ability to cross over to the spirit world and an extension of the ability was shown by Korra.

      by manipulating her own energy, she drew on the power of natural energy that surrounds the world in the form of cosmic energy and enhanced it into a giant astral projection of energy.

      As for Jinora's claim I feel it could be true... but personally it feels more energybending than airbending.

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    • I can see how spiritual projcetion is a very confusing techinuqe. Ist looks like jinora is using the astral projection of energybending, she isn't. One: she never grows into a giant.Two: she never shoots any energy beams. Thus she's not energybending.

      This is different from entering the spirit world because she never actully goes there.In other words this techinuqe is used to travel only in the physical world.

      The creaters should've had it in a different color. Than people would'nt be so confused and know for certain its an airbending techinuqe.

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    • Astral projection is not an airbending sub-skill. It is in no way related to the atmosphere (air), however it could be done by nonairbenders because it requires a high level of spirituality, which I think may explain Iroh,

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    • I've been thinking of possible sub-skills for airbending. Here's what I came up with.

      - Soundbending (I think this has been hinted at in the 2 series multiple times)

      - Light-bending (Camouflage perhaps)

      - Air Pressure bending (Increasing air pressure in certain areas. Like perhaps creating a Jovian pressure field. Limits your opponent's movement.)

      - Some sort of bending human body. Blood contains (oxygen) which is in air. So perhaps something similar with blood bending.

      - Increase speed (Most possible I think. Reducing air friction to allow you to move faster. Not only to benders I think. Perhaps extend to inanimate objects. Like reducing air friction to a rock thrown to increase speed and increase destructive capability.)

      - Increase weight (Opposite with weightlessness which allows you to flow. This will increase your "weight" to increase durability and increase physical strength).

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    • Skysurfer92 wrote: I've been thinking of possible sub-skills for airbending. Here's what I came up with.

      - Soundbending (I think this has been hinted at in the 2 series multiple times)

      - Light-bending (Camouflage perhaps)

      - Air Pressure bending (Increasing air pressure in certain areas. Like perhaps creating a Jovian pressure field. Limits your opponent's movement.)

      - Some sort of bending human body. Blood contains (oxygen) which is in air. So perhaps something similar with blood bending.

      - Increase speed (Most possible I think. Reducing air friction to allow you to move faster. Not only to benders I think. Perhaps extend to inanimate objects. Like reducing air friction to a rock thrown to increase speed and increase destructive capability.)

      - Increase weight (Opposite with weightlessness which allows you to flow. This will increase your "weight" to increase durability and increase physical strength).

      But how would you increase your weight?

      And to blood bending, the air is ligated to the hemoglobin, so it's harder to bend. And, it's only O2, not the composition we have in our air. So would it be bendable? I don't think so. If yes, you could bend the carbon in our body as well, with earthbending.

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    • Maybe increasing weight is a far possibility =).

      As far as the blood bending, maybe I should have said bending the gases in the body.

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    • In my opinion, Airbenders are the most spiritually connected. Jinora, not only being the granddaughter of the avatar, but also being the daughter of a very spiritual man, who was heavily trained by the avatar. Naturally, this is in her blood. This is why I think that given the chance, others could also astral project.

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    • Well, Tenzin isn't that spiritual, as we discovered, but yes, I'd agree with saying that it's in her blood/nature.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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