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  • So is it official that Zaheer's group is called the Red Lotus. http://korraspirit.tumblr.com/post/91550783051/confirmed-zaheer-and-gang-are-called-the-red-lotus

    What would you think would be their real motive?

    I have read an article that speculates them to be anarchists who wanted freedom from all the rulers (firelord,earth king, etc.). Bad monarchy as seen on the Ba Sing Se lead Zaheer to form his group and recruit other members.

    1. Remember the bandits who said Korra was on the wrong side of fight after failing to get the tax Shipments. (Episode 3)

    2.Suyin Beifong who express her dislike to the Earth Queen, thinking that monarchy is an outdated institution.(Episode 5)

    Their motives wasn't bad after all. But their against the system so they have to face the consequences. They didnt want to harm the Avatar, they just want to kidnap her hoping she can be taught of the righteous path Zaheer was talking, freedom. And powerful people were afraid of this movement so they have to take actions to stop it. Remember who thrown them in their prisons? Fire Lord Zuko, Tonraq and Unalaq, all heads of the state. 

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    • Makes sense. Amon believed that bending was the cause of every war. But it can also be argued that rulers are the cause of every war. Chin the Conqueror, Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, Unalaq and The Earth Queen are the major examples.  

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    • Amon, i almost forgot him. Do you think he could possible survived the explosion? Maybe it will be revealed sooner that he was a member of the red lotus. I remember his mask and other equalist has a red circle. hahaha, coincidence???

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    • AvatarJPT wrote:
      So is it official that Zaheer's group is called the Red Lotus. http://korraspirit.tumblr.com/post/91550783051/confirmed-zaheer-and-gang-are-called-the-red-lotus

      What would you think would be their real motive?

      I have read an article that speculates them to be anarchists who wanted freedom from all the rulers (firelord,earth king, etc.). Bad monarchy as seen on the Ba Sing Se lead Zaheer to form his group and recruit other members.

      1. Remember the bandits who said Korra was on the wrong side of fight after failing to get the tax Shipments. (Episode 3)

      2.Suyin Beifong who express her dislike to the Earth Queen, thinking that monarchy is an outdated institution.(Episode 5)

      Their motives wasn't bad after all. But their against the system so they have to face the consequences. They didnt want to harm the Avatar, they just want to kidnap her hoping she can be taught of the righteous path Zaheer was talking, freedom. And powerful people were afraid of this movement so they have to take actions to stop it. Remember who thrown them in their prisons? Fire Lord Zuko, Tonraq and Unalaq, all heads of the state. 

      I took notice on the fact that you didn't mention the two most ignorant of the heads of state: URN President Raiko and Earth Queen Hou-Ting.

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    • Wait... isnt Zaheer the leader of the red lotus? Shouldnt the red lotus take him down?

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    • I think leader isn't the same as ruler. A leader is just a guide who shows them the ways whilst doing the thing THEMSELVES. A ruler on the other hand just instructs his group because he doesn't have to do the thing himself, it wouldn't matter if he thought it was right or not. People under a ruler will have to do what their ruler says, just like the monarchy system. People under the leadership are given opportunity to follow what the leader says, but they AREN'T FORCED to.

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    • AvatarJPT wrote:
      I think leader isn't the same as ruler. A leader is just a guide who shows them the ways whilst doing the thing THEMSELVES. A ruler on the other hand just instructs his group because he doesn't have to do the thing himself, it wouldn't matter if he thought it was right or not. People under a ruler will have to do what their ruler says, just like the monarchy system. People under the leadership are given opportunity to follow what the leader says, but they AREN'T FORCED to.

      The Avatar isnt a ruler though, they are supposed to "lead" people towards peace. Korra didnt really force people... did she? Ok maybe a bit to get the Air bender nation going again, but if she was a ruler, she would overpower Raiko and the Earth Queen, but at the moment she did somethings they said even if she didnt like them, like "stay out of the earth kingdom or my city"

      Cant tell... is Zaheers gang really looking for peace? Freedom? Destruction with no rulers to restrict them?

      You know if there are laws like "dont kill people" there is someone in power. Take out the person in power and the rules are dropped. Lets watch as the benders freely murder all the defenceless non-benders and loot their belongings then leave the world at war


      P.S: I dont think the red lotus will be "harmless" to Korra. Zaheer said it will be the end of the Avatar...

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    • Korra(Avatar) had the power (remember Roku sparing Sozin's Life and Kyoshi not overthrowing the Earth king) but she chose not to cause there's no point of doing that. 

      Maybe they believed that there shouldn't be an Avatar cause they see her as the ruler of the world and has the authority/power to dethrone any ruler whom she thinks to be way out of line and place another suitable candidate. They tought that Aang basically formed his own country and have his close friends help to run it. His bestfriend ran the fire nation, his brother-in-law maybe became the chief of the southern tribe and the Earth King that time was pretty weak for he would go along with most of what Aang instructed him to do. Leaving Aang as the most politically powerful person in the world after the Hundred Years War. 

      Zaheer's gang maybe really looking for freedom. They haven't destructed anything with no cause either. They just really think that there should be no Avatar.

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    • Hmm to think

      In the Red Lotus perspective, wouldnt Kuruk be the best Avatar? Kuruk didnt bother anyone else. He didnt try to get people to be an certain way. He didnt care about issues going around in the world, but so didnt other people. He was pretty much just a random bender who wants to have some fun in their lives

      But later on he regretted this due to Koh stealing Ummi. If the Avatar was seen as simply "an human that can bend multiple elements" they would go towards the "bender and non bender" equality level

      Perhaps thats what the Red Lotus is seeking

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    • i get the idea that the red lotus' motives go much deeper than that though. it seems as though they're in direct contrast to the white lotus, kinda like vaatu and raava. i'm betting both organizations are more ancient than we think at the moment, and have been at odds with each other for most, if not all, of their co-existence.

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    • Well on an optimistic view on the red lotus

      Every war was caused by a bad monarchy or ruler. Often in desire of wealth or power like the hundred year war. There are the red lotus extremists you could say, Zaheer and his gang want to make the Avatar realize this and have people self governed on what they believe is right. An medium would be the bandits. Come on now, paying taxes so the queen can get more decorations? I'd go against the queen for that, and when the bandit says she's on the wrong side, Korra gets the feel he's right

      Su maybe a minor red lotus, friendly but she shares the anti monarch belief. When Korra mentions the Earth queens abuse Su insists Korra should start thinking about eliminating the queen. Even if she is red lotus I wouldn't see her as harmful. She could be the ruler of Zao fu if she wanted and force everyone in a way but didn't.

      People have the right to choose their own paths. Korra clearly stated this when she took the air benders from the queen. The Queen responded she rules over them and can force them in her way. 

      Like the equalists, they have good reason for their action but may not be solving it the right way

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    • They might have known Harmonic Convergence was coming, so maybe they knew something would change them. I mean, Zaheer knows A LOT about airbending... and Guru Lahima, who is the wisest airbender who ever lived... Zaheer mentions him a lot.

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    • Im somewhat questioning about the "eliminating monarchy" as their motive

      They were questioned for 13 years and never spoke. Whats so secret about wanting to eliminate monarchy? If you have good reason like "rulers are abusing people" its understandable

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    • So could that possibly be hinting at Suyin being a Red Lotus member and Lin being a White Lotus member? That could explain why they are at ends with each other...

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    • you don't have to be a part of a philosiphical organization to share the same view on certain things if thats even what the red lotus is about.

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    • I don't think Zaheer is essentially a bad guy. One of the overriding themes in LOK is that all the "enemies" are defined enemies but Korra does not necessarily disagree with their philsophies; she does question their methods. We see this with each and every character in LOK; Asami questioning her father and Varrick, Mako questioning the police force and even Boilin getting confused at how things work. Korra does understand that her uncle was wrong in unleashing Vatu but she agrees with his feelings and intentions. Due to the gap with the spirit world she feels the woeld has become sequestered from its natural allignment so she decides to keep the portals open. 

      The Red Lotus may not completely like how the White Lotus does things. They are, like the Dai Li, deviated from their purposes, and have become elitists. We see this when the Dai Li do not question their queen's abduction and coercion and paranoia  but decide to implement her methods cruelly. The White Lotus are a bit elitist too. Despite the Equalists being right about how the world views Non-benders as "lower" ranked citizens they have refused to do much about the situation instead exacerbated it by ignoring it and allowing things to stay the same. The Red Lotus may feel, like Amon, that the Avatar is responsible for these horrendous acts of ethical censorship but she too is a victim. Korra, as one Tumblr used expertly wrote, has been so watched over by the White Lotus that she has no idea of the political distabilities going on about her. But as she is becoming a more capable Avatar she is realizing this. I would actually prefer that she actually understand the Red Lotus and they can work things out peacefully. 

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    • Transall wrote:
      you don't have to be a part of a philosiphical organization to share the same view on certain things if thats even what the red lotus is about.

      E8 confirmed Su is not part of the Red Lotus, and by a lot of people in the earth kingdom most hate the earth queen for abusing her position 

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    • While I agree that the monarchies are an outdated concept, I believe that what the red lotus is doing is still wrong. Killing off world leaders will cause an event like the 100 year war to happen again. Thousands, no millions will die in the resulting conflict. The nations will all be thrown into confusion and chaos causing horrific riots and the inevitable suffering of innocents.

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    • I guess the storybenders (I mean storywriters) were really desperate to make Zaheer a bad guy; like really BAD. I mean I thought that Zaheer would be more of an approachable person and instead they reduced him to an assassin, a cheap one at that. I mean, the killing of monarch people like this also happened during the French Revolution. What Zaheer did was brutal and unfortunately all the other leaders gave him the chance to do that. They never questioned Hyou-Ting or anything. Yes, we must respect other people's places and invasions would not curtel the decimation or destruction of a place but they never really talked it out with her or even helped her people. And after the breaking of the wall, obviously, there would be rioting and looting because they were subjugated and abused people. No one cares about that. Not even Korra. I mean they should have considered this as an inevitable consequence of oppression. Hyou-Ting is much responsible for her condition as the others; none of her subjects love her. And how can you go away with some elected leaders? I think the guy in the cell was true when he said that the first few months were great he could sleep but now he misses his wife and daughter. Too much extremity is a bad thing, That's what bothers me about Zaheer. The guy is supposed to be more clear headed but instead he is so philosphically dumb like Korra that he just says you are free and that's it. What about the pains of restructuring society? What about being a credible Robin Hood and giving to the poor? It's such reductionist crap that I feel that none of these storywriters even passed higher level history. You had Amon a good enough "villain" whose cause was not bad but then his remarks are easily forgotten. The only thing that mattered in the series till now was Korra keeping the spirit portals open. Yet no one is helping Korra out balancing the energies of these two realms. She may be an avatar but she is a human being. She needs help. Not to mention Korra's arrogant streak, or written into her character, is pretty misogynistic because Aang has to be the spiritual one to make a distinction? Dude, they are both avatars they can both be spirtual. Reducing Korra to only her physicality is pretty stupid. How she easily claims to the Earth Kingdom soldiers how she is the avatar and that they shouldn't fight her. I am like just a few moments ago you were totally helpless and Asami was the one who helped you out. Really Korra this sort of ego is what you are berating Zaheer for having and you possess it too. The storywriting and character writing is going down like way down. Only Boilin reminds us that the Red Lotus are people who have to be dealt as people (yes Zaheer shouldn't have killed the Earth Queen like that) and for that I really loved him. In fact Ghazan and Ming-Hua have no problem associating themselves with Boilin as well and so when that's genuinely done you get genuine results not deception, or murder or anything so extreme. 

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    • Sonicboom16 wrote:
      While I agree that the monarchies are an outdated concept, I believe that what the red lotus is doing is still wrong. Killing off world leaders will cause an event like the 100 year war to happen again. Thousands, no millions will die in the resulting conflict. The nations will all be thrown into confusion and chaos causing horrific riots and the inevitable suffering of innocents.

      That seems a bit overly pessimistic. We've had world leaders, presidents, tyrants assassinated in the real world often enough. I wouldn't expect people to go nuts and try to genocide each other just because their rulers got killed. Also, how would it be like the 100 year war? If Zaheer takes out all the major powers, the thing to worry about is fighting between a large number of smaller factions breaking out, not 1 power trying to take over the world.

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    • NephilimGear: Don't blame the writing because you arbitrarily assumed that Zaheer must be an essentially good guy deep down simply because he's superficially charming. And don't just randomly say that it's misogynistic for Korra not to be spiritual, that doesn't even make sense.

      Supermensch: Assassinations have a good probability of leading to screwed up situations, & there's also a considerable difference between taking out A world leader vs. taking out ALL world leaders.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Supermensch: Assassinations have a good probability of leading to screwed up situations, & there's also a considerable difference between taking out A world leader vs. taking out ALL world leaders.

      I'm not saying assassinations can't cause great disturbances, but there've also been many cases where the leader is just replaced and business continues as usual. Assuming that all nations will simultaneously devolve into a horrific chaos seems pretty presumptive.

      Also, I'm not so sure whether all world leaders being killed or just the one running your own country will make that much of a difference to most common citizens in the Avatarverse. If it'd happen in the real world, yes, it'd be a major event and cause massive disturbances, but in the Avatarverse there exist only a few nations, and they're pretty self-sufficient. The role of the government is also pretty minor for much of the population. I wonder if the citizens of the Northern Water Tribe even noticed that Unalaq died.

      NWT citizen: "Oh, Unalaq merged with this evil spirit and the Avatar killed him? So his kids are gonna sit on the throne and mostly ignore us now. Same old, same old, I guess."

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      NephilimGear: Don't blame the writing because you arbitrarily assumed that Zaheer must be an essentially good guy deep down simply because he's superficially charming. And don't just randomly say that it's misogynistic for Korra not to be spiritual, that doesn't even make sense.

      Supermensch: Assassinations have a good probability of leading to screwed up situations, & there's also a considerable difference between taking out A world leader vs. taking out ALL world leaders.


      This is actually to Neo Bahumet: I never went on that side of the scale. You are completely misreading me and I am saying this without vehemence. I never said Zaheer was the typical good guy but no one really hates Zaheer so it is really bad writing to make him do something so terrible midway into the story to actually have us really deplore him. With Amon they had him  do multiple really nasty things so it was essentially laid out he was quite extreme from the beginning. Besides I said they are making Zaheer like a typical villain which is boring and unrealistic given even the fantastical breadth of this mythos. No villain can be reduced so easily to such banal parts when they think genuinely that they are doing good. In fact, I said that his ways are wrong but his philosophical stance needed more thought and that he was not entirely wrong; his actions came with the baggage with the world. You cannot assume that I found him charming quite contrary I found his ways vague and pretty obscure and he hardly does much anyway until recently. I'd say Amon and Unalaq had stronger personalities. So the writing is not so on par as it just feels very mechanically induced. Also, yes, it is somewhat misogynistic to make Korra totally the inverse of Aang in regards to patience and versatility even in the penultimate books because that makes no sense. Korra was learning to be more spiritual but that is always overshadowed by her irrationality and her incapacity to even try understand her opponents or even herself because they only want to show her physicality as though because she is just a physical person she cannot do other things. I liked that she is more physical, in both strength, height and musculature than Aang; I loved that until they don't show her in other dimensions. She is not a rampaging Hulk she is a person. Aang took 3 books to develop a more physical approach, he failed at times but he learned. But Korra doesn't learn more patience or spiritual sides of being an avatar — they sometimes badly regress her automatically to Book 1 or beginning Book 2 Korra who was egotistic and somewhat arrogant understandably because all her life she was treated as an avatar so she might find it hard not to think like an avatar unlike Aang who always wanted to be "normal" so that's not a bad difference. But then Aang realized he had to do things and changed a bit. Korra was doing that but then the writers lacked the tempo to keep on going at it. They cannot decide what to do with her. Which is an embedded problem writers face with female protagonists. Look how they wrote Sokka and look how they wrote Asami that alone proves this point. Sokka may have not been a bender but he wasn't toned down to "babe" or "non-bender" despited Asami's great intelligence and superior flexibility in fighting she is always, reminded to us, of her "non-bender" status. And Korra easily takes the confrontationalist approach in doing things because they are reducing her as a character. The amount of character development they gave Aang is not given much to Korra. They themselves admitted that the fluff step they took may not have been wise so writers can make mistakes. They are probably more concerned about keeping the show alive which is fine but they need to flesh more. Korra can be spiritual and physical at the same time. Many women and men are and they don't need to be discrete. This situation is pressing on that and that is why Korra had her meeting with Zaheer in the spirit realm where her usual character cannot be extrapolated. I am merely pointing those out. I think you are thinking that I am attacking a show that you clearly love a lot and think I am demeriting it. On the contrary, I am always watching LOK and do like it that is why I want it to evolve. If I didn't care for it I wouldn't engage in these conversations with massive chunks of words of what I am feeling. Things in life and even fantasy are not always direct. I feel strongly that LOK defines "villains" as not people with necessarily evil goals but as people who do not care about the means to an end, no matter how extreme. And that is a spiritual engagement too; you cannot always fight an opponent but see if you can talk to them too. That is what is a challenge is for Korra so in Book 2 it was her spiritual astral projection that fought Unalaq and even said that he was right but she of course did not agree with his execution of the philosophy. She used both her spiritual and physical energy to balance things out and so did the others and that was very good writing and character development. And as the avatar is part spirit Korra always faces the fear of losing that spirit which was good writing and that part perhaps is gendered as to show how social and political issues may try to strip a woman of her spirit and that is great too. Book 3 is not as functional as those ones.Korra must learn how to balance herself which was also a challenge for Aang and he also used a non-traditional route of doing things and Korra can do the same. Genuinely without malice. 

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    • If the Dark avatar was not the part of the red lotus plan The red lotus Main goal is to take down nation leaders

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    • Supermensch wrote:
      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Supermensch: Assassinations have a good probability of leading to screwed up situations, & there's also a considerable difference between taking out A world leader vs. taking out ALL world leaders.
      I'm not saying assassinations can't cause great disturbances, but there've also been many cases where the leader is just replaced and business continues as usual. Assuming that all nations will simultaneously devolve into a horrific chaos seems pretty presumptive.

      Also, I'm not so sure whether all world leaders being killed or just the one running your own country will make that much of a difference to most common citizens in the Avatarverse. If it'd happen in the real world, yes, it'd be a major event and cause massive disturbances, but in the Avatarverse there exist only a few nations, and they're pretty self-sufficient. The role of the government is also pretty minor in most nations' cases. I wonder if the citizens of the Northern Water Tribe even noticed that Unalaq died.

      NWT citizen: "Oh, Unalaq merged with this evil spirit and the Avatar killed him? So his kids are gonna sit on the throne and mostly ignore us now. Same old, same old, I guess."

      You are right Supermensch. Clearly Unalaq being replaced by his kids does not disconcert the Northern Tribe which is somewhat funny because that guy basically became a dark avatar and I think his people would also be ashamed how Unalaq expelled Tonrak out of the Tribe (so that means that Korra is part Northerner and part Southerner) to be chief so the show did not depict that uncomfortable thing of the twins become the two new chiefs. Not to mention their mother. I did not essentially find the Red Lotus "villains" without a chance of reprieve as I did with Unalaq who was persistently manipulative and also power-hungry but at the same time the only good part of him was soiled by Vaatu. For Korra later realizes that keeping spirits away was wrong. Maybe it was very traumatic for Unalaq growing up because he had such a strong connection with spirits but no one cared. In fact, isn't that what happened to Jinora? If this incident didn't happen how could she easily say that she sees spirits when aside the private practices of her father no one around her was spiritually inclined? Does that excuse Unalaq>? No. I think that he was a desperate, partly mad person who was overwhelmed with his gifts and later took the negative road to do anything to get spirits back. One good thing is that his encounter was an actual education to Korra so that she realized the need for spirits in the corporeal world. 

      The part of assassinations is also tricky. If it was Zuko or Hyou-Ting who caused an assassination I don't think anyone would say crap; that is why it was so easy for Zuko when he was younger and angry towards everyone, and his dad being a tyrant, he actually could send people to try to get or end the avatar and that was not considered a crime. But yeah Hyou-Ting dying and the riots happening was expected because she was such a crap to her people that is a given they would turn to looting and chaos after being subjugating for like over I think 20 years. Their entire city has such a strict stratification of rich and poor with the poor not even given proper food that is natural for them to go beserk after all that has happened. They are expressing their anger and that is natural though violent it is natural for them to do that. If Hyou-Ting had been a just ruler and a good ruler this would not have happened (The episode triggers I think history from both French and English regimes and the change of power and the revolution in France). I think they could do more about this. It would be challenging for the avatar to actually stop this because of the pain and anger of the people so all the authorities and people must work together to bring a more relaxed system of doing things. LOK featured many standpoints of equality so it is good if they delve into it. The hierachal severity of Ba Sing Se brought actually chaos and a new order of massive violence into being. No one really cares about the Queen's death. They are overjoyed at her death, most anyway. If Korra and team confronts this situation like they normally do it will really spiral out of control. So, it would be good if the writers acknowledge the realities of the situation and help the people involved and make Korra more aware of people's plight and do something genuinely about it. 

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    • I think you are thinking that I am attacking a show that you clearly love a lot and think I am demeriting it. On the contrary, I am always watching LOK and do like it that is why I want it to evolve. If I didn't care for it I wouldn't engage in these conversations with massive chunks of words of what I am feeling

      I don't think you're saying anything in the 1st place. I can just as easily say that "Bolin being reduced to the goofy muscle is misandristic." No part of it really makes sense, even if any of the premises are true, they aren't really connected, & it's obviously something I just made up on the spot, some arbitrary comparison I've drawn between 2 characters to prove a belabored point, but I can easily string together a pseudointellectual argument "supporting" it. Doesn't make it true.

      And it's not just this. Common sense says that Korra realized that Zaheer isn't someone who can be reasoned with, you spin her silence into Zaheer outsmarted her somehow. Common sense indicates that Mr. "Disorder is Order" wouldn't try to enforce any rules on Ba Sing Se, but you're asking why he "didn't think to do that." And then there was "the White Lotus taught Korra how to be elitist, which she took out on people in Republic City," which is just--you had to have pulled that out of either her getting mad at a protestor, or the fact that she apprehended some gangsters, & I'm not sure which is the more absurd leap.

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    • Does anyone think that there is still a chance that we could see a flashback of the RL's original kidnapping attempt 13 years ago? (especially in this book)  I really wanted to see this.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      I think you are thinking that I am attacking a show that you clearly love a lot and think I am demeriting it. On the contrary, I am always watching LOK and do like it that is why I want it to evolve. If I didn't care for it I wouldn't engage in these conversations with massive chunks of words of what I am feeling

      I don't think you're saying anything in the 1st place. I can just as easily say that "Bolin being reduced to the goofy muscle is misandristic." No part of it really makes sense, even if any of the premises are true, they aren't really connected, & it's obviously something I just made up on the spot, some arbitrary comparison I've drawn between 2 characters to prove a belabored point, but I can easily string together a pseudointellectual argument "supporting" it. Doesn't make it true.

      And it's not just this. Common sense says that Korra realized that Zaheer isn't someone who can be reasoned with, you spin her silence into Zaheer outsmarted her somehow. Common sense indicates that Mr. "Disorder is Order" wouldn't try to enforce any rules on Ba Sing Se, but you're asking why he "didn't think to do that." And then there was "the White Lotus taught Korra how to be elitist, which she took out on people in Republic City," which is just--you had to have pulled that out of either her getting mad at a protestor, or the fact that she apprehended some gangsters, & I'm not sure which is the more absurd leap.

      Well, your aggressive way of  talking is a good conversationalist technique? No, it is not. If you think I am not saying anything "relevant"  or that it is "pseudointellect" then there isn't much to say really. I did not have to think hard as The Thinker that Korra was unprepared to say anything to Zaheer her reaction was quite apparent; she looked clueless on how to challenge what Guru Lahima said. And Boilin is not always a goofball. There are so many things that Boilin is. Yes, you can say that his current depiction is misandristic and if you give reasons for it I would try to politely understand why you were saying that. There was no belabouring about Aang and Korra. I did notice these fractures in the narrative. If you think they are not true then I respect that too. Your forceful way of saying things against what I am saying and attempting to control your thinly veiled annoyance is not needed. I am saying thses quite normally. You can elaborate what you think about Korra as a character and the situation then I can understand better your point of view. 

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    • Concerning that the writers have already decided what the Red Lotus is and what Red Lotus will do; anyone have theories about the void? What sort of place or situation is that? 

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    • We don't know if they'll be defeated at the end of book 3 or not, but they might be able to do damage that isn't able to be fixed until the end of book 4.

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    • Well, your aggressive way of talking is a good conversationalist technique? No, it is not.

      On what basis? The fact that you don't like it? Well, yes, you probably won't like being told that your claims are baseless & border on non-sequitur. That doesn't mean it's not true.

      I did not have to think hard as The Thinker that Korra was unprepared to say anything to Zaheer her reaction was quite apparent; she looked clueless on how to challenge what Guru Lahima said.

      Suppose she did "look clueless," & you didn't simply make that up. Just for the sake of the argument. Perhaps that's because Zaheer's argument makes no bloody sense. Is that what Guru Laghima is even talking about? Does it even matter what Guru Laghima said to begin with?

      The more you examine Zaheer's argument, the less point there is in answering it. Behind all of the flowery language, it is simply stupid. Answering him would just net you more of the same kind of arguments. You can't argue with a zealot because they deliberately interpret everything as supporting them.

      It is just as Korra explains in Episode 10: She reasoned that Zaheer is insane, he can't be reasoned with because he is irrational.

      And Boilin is not always a goofball. There are so many things that Boilin is.

      Exactly. This is 1 of many flaws in your claim. Arbitrarily simplifying a character down to a generalized trait or 2.

      Yes, you can say that his current depiction is misandristic and if you give reasons for it I would try to politely understand why you were saying that.

      No, it can't be both, if the supporting points are wrong, then the argument is wrong. It doesn't matter if the other person considers being told that "impolite."

      You can elaborate what you think about Korra as a character and the situation then I can understand better your point of view.

      It's been discussed.

      As well, the burden of proof is on you to show that any particular thing is due to Korra's gender. Any claim that can be made without evidence can be dismissed just as easily.

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    • We know their overall objectives and they've already completed their goals in Ba Sing Se. I'm horrified though because if Zaheer killed the Earth Queen just like that, we know now what he'll do to the other leaders of the world. While we still don't know his hidden plans for Korra, we know who he's after. Raiko, Zuko's daughter, Eska and Desna, Tonraq, and POSSIBLY Tenzin omg. I'm sure Raiko is probably gonna be killed off, though for the others...I just hope they are spared.

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    • Zaheer is a textbook Chaotic Neutral/Chaotic Good guy, whatever he does, he does it under the impression of being a good thing, but to me there's more than just taking down the monarchy and institutions...something more "spiritual".

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    • theyosher- im wondering if that might not be his actual goal, after all he had the chance to kill desna eska and tonraq in the north pole but he didnt. i feel there is more to what's going on that we know. god i cant wait to see the next episode.

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    • Vincent Mackay wrote: Zaheer is a textbook Chaotic Neutral/Chaotic Good guy, whatever he does, he does it under the impression of being a good thing, but to me there's more than just taking down the monarchy and institutions...something more "spiritual".

      I mentioned in another thread that I think Zaheer's disdain for governments stems from a belief that they are worldly distractions that prevent people from achieving enlightenment.

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    • Zaheer real motive is to throw the world into chaos

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    • Zaheer want Vaatu and Raava to battle each other

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    • Zaheer wants ten thousand years of darkness

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    • Zaheer want to take down nation leaders and the white Lotus

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    • Zaheer wants a world without the avatar and the white lotus

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    • @Philip9876

      1. He might do this, but it's probably not his ultimate goal.
      2. Seems so, yes.
      3. No.
      4. Yes.
      5. Probably.
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    • Wrote this in another thread, but this is my best answer

      Thinklogic wrote:
      Zaheer needs to practice what he preaches, change cannot be undone, even by the Avatar. 10,000 years ago Wan believed disorder is the natural order, but over 10,000 years things have changed. Leaving everyone on their own with no leaders is no longer the natural order. 


      3 quotes of Suyin:

      -"The world is evolving and the earth queen no longer fits". The world changes overtime. There's close to nothing you can do about it

      -"Mom gave us lots of freedom but I made the mistake of giving Opal too little".

      Freedom is like water. Its good but needs an limit. Too much freedom letting everyone do whatever will cause random killing and stealing to survive. Too little leaves you with nothing to do in your life. Korra understands the balance needed between total and no freedom

      -"People change".

      People are no longer the same as Wans time. Zaheer can't just change everyone back by killing off leaders

       

      An world of complete freedom would make everyone like young Su (shown in Old Wounds)

      An world of no freedom would end up like Ba Sing Se before Hou tings excecution. Path restrictions limit your capabilities

      Korra knows from Suyins experience with Toph (too much freedom) and Opal (too little) that there must be an balance between the two.

      Whos job is it to create this balance? The Avatar!

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    • Supermensch wrote: @Philip9876

      1. He might do this, but it's probably not his ultimate goal.
      2. Seems so, yes.
      3. No.
      4. Yes.
      5. Probably.

      Zaheer will allow Vaatu to ruin ten thousand years of darkness

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    • Vaatu will ruin 10,000 years of darkness? Try looking up that word, Philip, I think you'll find it doesn't mean what you think it does.

      Also, no, Zaheer's goal is not to let Vaatu rule for 10,000 years.

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    • I feel like Zaheer is going to bring Vaatu back by using darkness

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    • Vaatu is inside of Raava he is a tiny dark spirit inside of a light spirit

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    • Why do you have multiple 1 sentence post instead of having 1 multiple sentence post.

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    • Nzhabermaas11 wrote: Why do you have multiple 1 sentence post instead of having 1 multiple sentence post.

      Zaheer is going to Regenerate Vaatu from Raava just like Jinora regenerate Raava from Vaatu
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    • I'm beginning to believe Philip is a spambot. >.>

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    • Supermensch wrote:
      I'm beginning to believe Philip is a spambot. >.>

      I'm starting to believe this.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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