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  • ...do you think that they would be able to have a baby? a sort of crossbreed? (a crossbreed is half human and half spirit)

    I happen to think that it is very possible because the human gene and the spirit gene are both dominant traits resulting in co-dominance which results in blending and then we get a crossbreed baby.

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    • It's all going to depend on the writer of LOK. but I don't think they will. first because of the whole sex thing... we don't know how they reproduce let alone if they need a partner to reproduce. second, back in the Raava era when spirits and humans lived in harmony we didn't see any crossbreed (maybe because they lived separately). I would like to see a crossbreed of half-human-spirit but I doubt we will see any.

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    • do you think they would look more like a human or a spirit? because i think it depends on the spirit.

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    • I don't think spirits have chromosomes/ DNA or regardless made of cells. They're from another dimension. So cross breeding could not happen.

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    • well it works like that in OUR WORLD and science is pretty weird in the avatar world and spirits ARE LIVING ORGANISMS AND MUST HAVE CELLS AND DNA!

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    • Their from another dimmension and are basically imortal, dont require food or water. there not made of the same materials that physical life are.

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    • if you think about every thing they said in korra it would be impossible.besides spirit dont breed they are immortal i dont think they have private parts.........

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    • Assuming thata spirit could be made of DNA and have biological parts etc, it still would likely be more than impossible. The chromosonal difference between you and a potatoe is frankly miniscule, but mating between the two is impossible. Mating between a human and an extraterrestial energy being...?

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote: well it works like that in OUR WORLD and science is pretty weird in the avatar world and spirits ARE LIVING ORGANISMS AND MUST HAVE CELLS AND DNA!

      They're not living organisms... that's why you call them spirits, because they don't have a body and they're immortal...

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    • they are not all immortal and can die if they take on physical forms and happen to have physical forms if you cross in using the portal remember when Korra rode the dragon bird spirit?

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    • She was a spirit when that happened, she physically left her body with Jinora to enter the Spirit World. That's why Jinora entered a coma-like state, because her spirit and her body were separated for a prolonged time, and that's why Unalaq was able to break off "bits" of Korra with waterbending.

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    • well yeah but I still think that if a human married a spirit they could have a child because of co dominance they would have blending leading to a crossbreed.

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    • There are plenty of examples in folk lore of spirits, deity-like beings, and other supernatural forces creating children from seemingly ridiculous situations. Holy spirit anyone? That isn't even counting all the forms in nature doing equally ridiculous stuff.

      Spirits do a some capacity to interact with physical beings or objects. As for spirits creating children, we just have MoF and Koh, but we don't really know the situation other than parent/child.

      What about a human "corrupted" by a spirit like Wan's friend? Would he or she pass anything on to a child?

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    • It could be possible, I think Spirits like the Painted Lady would be more compatible. Half spirits would probably be spiritually enlightened at birth, maybe have a blend of abilities from both parents.

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    • who would the painted lady marry? and as for abilities I think that a crossbreed would normally be a bender and would also have stirity powers/magic.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      who would the painted lady marry? and as for abilities I think that a crossbreed would normally be a bender and would also have stirity powers/magic.

      Any humanoid being that she's physically alike enough to crossbreed with. I was counting bending under the vague "Blend Of abilities" term, my bad on that.

      EDIT: If spirits can shapeshift into compatible forms, they could likely crossbreed with humans too.

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    • well some spirits probably can with the whole "your emotions become your reality" thing. or they just have the ability to shape shift.

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    • I read that, they turn dark due to negative emotions, I wouldn't really consider that Shapeshifting, of the kind necessary to become humanoid.

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    • well a spirit can definitely shapeshift into a human-like form.

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    • What episode/comic was it in?

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote: well yeah but I still think that if a human married a spirit they could have a child because of co dominance they would have blending leading to a crossbreed.

      UnaVaatu is a powerful dark spirit

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      well a spirit can definitely shapeshift into a human-like form.

      Do they need to shape-shift into a humanoid form?

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    • probably. I would believe that a humanoid form is when they are most fertile.

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    • Basis?

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      probably. I would believe that a humanoid form is when they are most fertile.

      I believe your just making stuff up as you go. Lol

      @Kubernes: My theory is that Spirits would need to have a Humanoid form, or shape-shift into one to crossbreed with Humans. So given the Theory me and Thoyrn are debating they would need to be able to shape-shift into a humanoid form, If my theory has merit. Just trying to explain the debate, so you understand.

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    • Maybe for a younger audience so that you do not warp fragile little minds :p . On the other hand, there are quite a number of tales where even human form wasn't really needed. Two that immediately come to mind are Zeus' polymorphing into coins or a swan.

      I guess the big question considering the idea is "how do spirits come into being?"

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    • Well, logically in order for Raava and Vaatu to be "created" a being of superior power would have to create them. Of course theres the whole just appearing in existence possibility. They could be linked to what they embody, and were born with the concepts, domains, when those were born.

      EDIT: Of course thats pure theory, and speculation, and application of real world logic.

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    • Actually, considering that we've seen spirits being able to warp human form, I'm going to say that mamting could be possible. It would be weird and not appropriate for television, but spirits could probably figure out how to reproduce with a human.

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    • Yeah my logic was, they need to be physically similar enough. Where you refering to possessing and deforming a human? If so, thats not really altering themself.

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    • It could be like End of Days. We have seen humans drastically altered by being "host" to a spirit. Wan's elderly friend had tree material growing from him so the extent of what happens with offspring is up in the air. Then again, we have seen at least two spirits (Raava/Vaatu) who do not warp the body when they enter it. Yes, it could destroy the host after long periods unless the two souls are not fused.

      We also haven't seen that many spirits. If there's a greater spirits entirely devoted to giving faces, then maybe others with powers that allow for plot related powers that produces a mixed being.

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    • Um, were debating if they can produce an offspring? I havent read "End of Days" so you'll need to explain that statement. I know about possession, I don't get how possession is related to marriage between spirits.

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    • I don't think it's so much a matter of being genetically compatible as the fact that while spirits are tangible, they're not precisely corporeal.  If that makes sense.

      If it were somehow able to happen, however?  The kid would probably be human, but have a potential affinity for spirit matters (like Jinora), be somehow visibly marked by the connection (like Yue), or both.

      ...and now, I'm reminded of Exalted (where spirit babies are canon).

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    • I think genetic compatibility is out, being two different races of beings. I think spirits can alter their density. I like your points on potential abilities.

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    • Zane T 69 wrote:
      I think genetic compatibility is out, being two different races of beings. I think spirits can alter their density. I like your points on potential abilities.

      What I meant is that while spirits can alter their density—thus becoming tangible or intangible as they see fit—they don't precisely have bodies; they have manifestations.  A spirit isn't so much a creature, per se, as a consciousness that can become solid by—for want of a better word—ectoplasmic means if it so chooses.

      In other words: they'd have to be made of tissue and DNA and all that neat stuff in the first place before genetic compatibility could even be relevant.

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    • they probably do have DNA in order to be live.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      they probably do have DNA in order to be live.

      The question is whether or not they are alive in the same sense that material beings are.  Again, while they manifest and can become solid and tangible, I don't think they exactly have actual bodies.

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    • What about the spirits just as beings of energy? Like the Vorlons of Babylon 5 or some of the other such creatures. With that setup, they can both interact with the physical world but also be apart from it.

      Spirits, with the limited information we have, seem to be "alive". Not in the classical/biological sense like you or I, but more in the secondary sense. By that I'm refering to animation or operation. I'm just taking this from what we've seen so far in both series. There is the implication of coming into being with many of the spirits and even the ability of change in others.

      What about other types of beings to compare them to? Jinns come to mind because of a duality that exists in how they interact with the world.

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      What about the spirits just as beings of energy? Like the Vorlons of Babylon 5 or some of the other such creatures. With that setup, they can both interact with the physical world but also be apart from it.

      Spirits, with the limited information we have, seem to be "alive". Not in the classical/biological sense like you or I, but more in the secondary sense. By that I'm refering to animation or operation. I'm just taking this from what we've seen so far in both series. There is the implication of coming into being with many of the spirits and even the ability of change in others.

      What about other types of beings to compare them to? Jinns come to mind because of a duality that exists in how they interact with the world.

      I was kind of trying to say "they're energy beings" while keeping it in the fantasy genre.  :P   (As I said, I'm somewhat put in mind of a tabletop game called Exalted.)

      Now, the Mother of Faces does claim that Koh is her son...but that doesn't necessarily suggest that spirits reproduce in the same manner as biological beings.

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    • I'ma drop out this debate, started playing Runescape again. But my belief is that they can't have DNA because their "Higher" beings, being beyond flesh, blood etc. I agree they could be composed of energy..

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    • Well married might be pushing it a little, but when you look into most mythologyies and religions there is usually some form of spirits ad humans producing a child, usually of signigicant importance.  We know how important that the mythos of the avatar world is so I say it's totally possible.  

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    • There are plenty of eastern examples but I wonder if they would use more western ones because of the shift in book 2?

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    • Their child would be alot like the Avatar, half spirit and human

      Just imagine if Iroh's spirit got married and had a firebending child, who could enter the "Iroh State" that would make him breathe fire while addicted to tea

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    • the "Iroh state'? is that by any chance anything like the avatar state?

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    • Strictly a state of being where you get street cred for being named Iroh.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      the "Iroh state'? is that by any chance anything like the avatar state?

      Yes, because the Avatar State grants the knowledge of other spirits who were merged with Raava, such as past Avatars

      The "Iroh State" would grant Irohs knowledge because Irohs spirit makes up half the person

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    • Would 'ghost' Iroh even count? I mean, he is going to be different than a spirit in many ways. The biggest is that whole death thing.

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    • I'm not really sure depending if he counts as a human of a spirit because he WAS born a human and all.

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    • I guess it comes down to the potential with spirits with humans. Then you look into the differences between the two races. After that, you can look into the potential of a ghost. He's the first "real" ghost we have in this universe, not counting the images and conversations of Aang with the previous Avatars.

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      There are plenty of eastern examples but I wonder if they would use more western ones because of the shift in book 2?

      They might take some cues from Exalted, which has quite a bit of influence from the folklore of various countries in Asia.  (No, I will not shut up about Exalted.)

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    • can I hear some eastern examples?

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      I happen to think that it is very possible because the human gene and the spirit gene are both dominant traits resulting in co-dominance which results in blending and then we get a crossbreed baby.

      Personaly I don't think so because to do that the human and the spirt would have to do some "mateing" if you know what I mean and I just don't see how a human and a spirit can... you know togather (I would say the actual word but I don't wan't to say anything inappropreat.

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    • Scientifically, I don't think mating is possible. The closest thing I can think happening, well, the end result would probably be like Rin Okumura from Blue Exorcist(a different show I know, but I needed an example) is the closest thing that could possibly happen...

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    • Spirits have some way of passing genetic material

      The Mother of faces had a son, known as the Face Stealer

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    • well I think that mother of the faces did marry a man (a spirit.)

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    • Thinklogic wrote:
      Spirits have some way of passing genetic material

      The Mother of faces had a son, known as the Face Stealer

      I actually commented on that up-thread.  It confirms that spirits do reproduce in some way, shape, or form, but not necessarily that they do so in the same way as material beings.

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    • A few words: INTENSE NECROPHELIA (in a few case not all)

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    • ^More like Spectrophillia lol

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    • Thanks for correcting me an reminding me of a certain rule with your name.

      Also one of my standard for stamping a necrophilia label on somebody is Ebay's policy on selling your soul which is something along the line of it is a [dead] body part if it exist.

      But your  paraphilia discription fits the situation better.

      Some of the spirits in avatar are probably never lived as a human (and never died) and that is why it is not really necrophilia 


      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrophilia

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    • But there must a human-like spirit, the only one we've seen is Iroh, there's no way a human will marry to an animal-like spirit

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    • Iroh is or at least was a human and I think that anybody who marries a spirit doesn't care what they look like but so long as they love them.

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    • I still think the previous Avatars also have their own spirits like Iroh, but the current Avatar is able to call them anytime. Much like how Kuruk was hunting for Koh to recover Ummi even after his own death (shown in Kuruks article). He gave up once Aang told him Koh already consumed Ummi, thus killing Koh would kill Ummi

      Thus I believe for every past Avatar there is an human spirit


      P.S: I wouldnt be surprised if Iroh's spirit got married... despite his age in ATLA he tried to woo on several occasions and still one of the most lovable characters

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    • Cartoon favor wrote:
      But there must a human-like spirit, the only one we've seen is Iroh, there's no way a human will marry to an animal-like spirit

      The Painted Lady. 

      Also, there are other possibilities beyond "human-looking" and "bestial-looking" for how a spirit could look.  (For example, I wouldn't call the Mother of Faces either of the above.  Then again, any human who'd be attracted to her—beyond an aesthetic appreciation for the surreal and imposing, anyway—would have to be...adventurous.)

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    • a spirit doesn't have to be human-like to be beautiful and I would wonder who Iroh would be attracted to more because I still consider him human I really believe that in some meditation circle in the fire nation royal palace that he is meditating and Zuko visits him every day and says "I miss you uncle." so in the case of Iroh I think he would be the human in the relationship

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    • Is love the only way for children to be created?

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    • well there are plenty of other ways that I was going to refrain from mentioning in case children were on this website viewing this discussion and I would probably get blocked for destroying a child's life or something.

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    • yes it's a good idea 

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    • Ambiguous trope works for just about everything.

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    • crossbreeds are not only born to a human and a spirit. it can also be a crossbreed and a spirit, a human and a crossbreed and of course two crossbreeds. just so long as two types mix you would probably be considered a crossbreed.

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    • It would depend more on the context of the setting and the story. A crossbreed can be used to describe something or someone in either a positive or negative way. For example, there's a derogatory statement in Macross Plus where a character is specifically put down through the usage of "halfbreed".

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    • I personally think only people who want to discriminate them would call them "halfbreeds" which would be the crossbreed equivalent of (do not call me racist I highly believe in racial equality and support interracial relationships.) an African-American being called "nigga" or "negro" which I do not support.

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    • I wouldn't go as far as saying halfbreed is along the same lines as the other words.

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    • do you have any discrimination based words for crossbreeds because if they are going to have a rebellion there would need to be discriminant words for them that I can factor into my fanon.

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    • Yeah, you'd kind of be pissing off Inuyasha wit such works XD

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    • like what?

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    • 'half-breed', cross-breed, those words...don't you usually see him get worked up when his brother calls him 'a worthless halfbreed in the show? Or when Koga makes puns of Inuyasha of smell worse than k-9's(remember, Inuyasha's a half dog demon. Basically he Inuyasha gets pissed whenever someone throws negative adjectives alongside either crossbreed or halfbreed. Also, during his early life, he was shunned upon by most humans and demons because he was neither full human or full demon. From what I've seen of Republic City's citizens reaction to spirits as of Book 3, they don't have high opionions for spirits, and chances are it might be worse if there were any such crossbreeds. Conversely, while Korra is the only known hu man to recieve negative, or if at all any feedback from spirits, who's to say certain spirits would think equally low an opinion for crossbreeds? 

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    • in never said that this would happen in the material world because I always pictured that after harmonic convergence people would move into the spirit would and build a city in the spirit world called spirit realm city where humans and spirits lived together in harmony and the main home to crossbreeds because I think that by the end of book 4 the vines will be gone.

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    • You'd have to find humans willing to move to the spirit world first. That's a tough step 1. There isn't a very good history in the Avatar world for that sort of thing.

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    • well I actually think with the shifted energy of the planet more people would be eager to move besides people would be eager to explore the spirit world. Besides it would be a great move for business.

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    • For that to happen we need characters who want to go there. Jinora is about the only real character I can think of that likes the spirits and feels empathy towards them. Bumi kind of does, but that's just focused on one spirit (Bumju or however they spell it). Beyond that, there isn't much.

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    • I don't know if that really posssible, i mean the baby part. I had another quesstion in this matter, that evry human have a sprit, and after dying does that sprit goes to the sprit world? so if that is true, as now human's and sprit are living togather, human's can be with their loved ones even after dying. And if not how did iroh went there? 

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    • Iroh is just a special case: he was spirituality attuned and just went there when it was time.

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    • when you think about it there are plenty of spiritual people who would be willing besides if you've seen republic city there will have to be some tolerances on spirits eventually.

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    • I don't believe that it would be possible for human-spirit breeding in the way most people would think. I would believe that it would be more like a spirit in habiting a human body somehow and a normal human child being born.

      Similar to how Raava inhabits the body of every Avatar. It would result in a similar act, except instead of holding so much power like the Avatar does through Raava, the human child would express traits that this other spirit had. For example, if Koh SOMEHOW inhabited the body of someone, the resulting immaculate conception would be a child who possessed the essence of Koh and would have the ability to steal people's faces.

      So no new organism is formed, it is merely the spirit's being inside of a human host. And, like the Avatar, when that host dies, the spirit would move on to a new freshly born host.

      That being said, I hope human-spirit breeding DOES NOT happen in he show, the creators have already way too many new aspects to LOK that I don't belive now is the time to add this to the mix.

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    • well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it like everybody else but I would still look into it the concept is really interesting and would make a great story but then again the human mother would probably die giving birth to this new crossbreed baby (well probably only non-bending mothers).

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    • Why non bending mothers?

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    • I just think there is so many new aspects being added to the show as it is.

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    • I think a mother who is a bender would be stronger and have an easier time surviving birthing a crossbreed.

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    • like I said before, I would hope it would be more like an avatar situation where the spirit isn't really cross-bred with the human, but rather an inner spiritual part of the human and can be accessed by going into an "avatar-like state"

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    • The closest thing would be having another spirit fuse with a human during harmonic convergence and touching that power stream to permanently fuse. imagine a dragon spirit fusing with a human. that human would be the dragon born. [insert Skyrim Theme]

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    • I guess but when you think about it there would be many different ways to crossbreed and the "power stream" is one of the spirit portals.

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    • Spirits are not physical and atmost are made out of spirit energy. They don't even have similar forms. This makes it similar to the question of "How did the animals breed?" (I think it was some kind of spiritual occurance similar to magic). If a spirit loved a human enough to interact in such ways, I'm guessing the spirit would take the form of a human in this action. This is only if humans can actually reproduce or "interact" with spirits. 

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    • RAW BENDER wrote:
      I don't know if that really posssible, i mean the baby part. I had another quesstion in this matter, that evry human have a sprit, and after dying does that sprit goes to the sprit world? so if that is true, as now human's and sprit are living togather, human's can be with their loved ones even after dying. And if not how did iroh went there? 

      Not true. This is explained in the page about the spirit world.

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    • if somebody crosses through the portals physically the spirits have a physical form just like the human

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    • I think they could; in mythology and legend, there are stories of spirits and humans crossbreeding, like nymphs consorting with humans, so the me rule could apply in the ATLA world

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    • I know that we haven't seen a single human-type spirit in LoK. ATLA and the comics certainly use them. It's kind of a shame actually.

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    • If this is happen, that would be mean something that hybrid kid is going to have the powers of ghost like intangible and posses the other.

      And if they got bending from mother or father side, that would be more awesome!

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      I think they could; in mythology and legend, there are stories of spirits and humans crossbreeding, like nymphs consorting with humans, so the me rule could apply in the ATLA world

      Didn't spirits in chinese mythology mate with young humans?

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    • MysticNerd wrote:
      QueenCeline wrote:
      I think they could; in mythology and legend, there are stories of spirits and humans crossbreeding, like nymphs consorting with humans, so the me rule could apply in the ATLA world
      Didn't spirits in chinese mythology mate with young humans?

      Probably, I don't know a lot of Chinese mythology 

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    • ATLA and LOK have a lot of Chinese influence so there are also possibilities. by the next series it can definitely happen.

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    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      ATLA and LOK have a lot of Chinese influence so there are also possibilities. by the next series it can definitely happen.

      No next series.Also, the asian influence is the reason I brought chinese spirits.

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    • MysticNerd wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      ATLA and LOK have a lot of Chinese influence so there are also possibilities. by the next series it can definitely happen.
      No next series.Also, the asian influence is the reason I brought chinese spirits.

      No more?! Aww come on! The prodcers should filled the cycle. This is just the first half!

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    • Bersarker wrote:
      MysticNerd wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      ATLA and LOK have a lot of Chinese influence so there are also possibilities. by the next series it can definitely happen.
      No next series.Also, the asian influence is the reason I brought chinese spirits.
      No more?! Aww come on! The prodcers should filled the cycle. This is just the first half!

      You a=can try continueing it. Only soimeone with their magic can, though. I think it's because they really can't add any more basdd on the current story.Plus imagine if the world got more advanced.

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    • MysticNerd wrote:
      Bersarker wrote:
      MysticNerd wrote:
      Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      ATLA and LOK have a lot of Chinese influence so there are also possibilities. by the next series it can definitely happen.
      No next series.Also, the asian influence is the reason I brought chinese spirits.
      No more?! Aww come on! The prodcers should filled the cycle. This is just the first half!
      You a=can try continueing it. Only soimeone with their magic can, though. I think it's because they really can't add any more basdd on the current story.Plus imagine if the world got more advanced.

      But I want to see them travel in space! Encounter with aliens and set up the colonies.

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    • Apparently, this kind of thing is possible according to "The Rift Part 3". How weird.

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    • Cari1994 wrote:
      Apparently, this kind of thing is possible according to "The Rift Part 3". How weird

      I heard about that. But as far as spirits taking a human form, I would think that it's only the humanoid looking spirits that could assume a human form or mate with a human as a spirit. Like Old Iron, Tienhai, Painted Lady, Mother of Faces,etc. are the only humanoid spirits we know of, but I don't think that means all spirits can take a human form. 

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    • there are BILLIONS of spirits maybe even trillions there are probably plenty of humanoid spirits out there.

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    • Technically the Avatar is the child of Raava and Wan. What is fusing other than a form of hybrid sex. The act of fusing is similar to Raava placing her essence inside of Wan. Technically Wan and Raava married each other and every Avatar is their child.

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    • Lygarx wrote:
      Technically the Avatar is the child of Raava and Wan. What is fusing other than a form of hybrid sex. The act of fusing is similar to Raava placing her essence inside of Wan. Technically Wan and Raava married each other and every Avatar is their child.

      Yeah, I don't think that counts. Wan could be considered a spiritual ancestor, but say every avatar is his child because they have his soul is stretching it

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    • I won't spoil it, but the idea is handled in one respect in The Rift - Part 3.

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    • I'm reading the rift right now and I feel like I may have a very good theory at the end for this subject

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    • I think of spirits as reproducing like many cells do: Asexually. Meaning, one spirit simply comes out of or splits from the parent spirit. Also, the rift does give an example of an intimate human and spirit relationship.

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    • One thing people haven't considered: Koh and the Mother of Faces are diametrically opposed in their forms, giving and taking, push and pull. They complement each other, like Tui and La. Perhaps, then, there was a single spirit that split into two beings, both enamoured with faces for different reasons. But balance is key.

      True, in the Rift there is an example of humans and spirits marrying. We never learn if the union was blessed, though.

      Here's another idea, though: not literally combining energies, but taking a host. Yao nearly had that happen to him, even though it almost killed him. But if the spirit passes through a hoeing fetus...okay, it's sick, I know, but it does seem plausible-ish that the bond of spirit and human would be reasonably strong, producing a new being with characteristics of mother and father. Or maybe the presence of a spirit inside a woman's body could cause her to self-fertilize?

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    • Self fertilization is a little far off base, but I can see your thinking. I think certian spirits can experience love and others don't. Also, I am sticking to the theory of spirits splitting from eachother like cells, we know that a spirits attitude, personality and environment affect their look and features. So I am sticking to the splitting from eachothr theory. And in terms of Koh and the mother of faces, he came from her, but his evil nature affected his form and caused him to look evil.

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    • You know, I'm not entirely sure that Koh was evil. Yeah, yeah, he looks pretty nasty, but if you think about it so does the Mother of Faces. Or Wan Shi Tong, who (until the season we must forget to preserve consistency) was scary as anything yet was somewhat amoral. Koh's not bad, he just represents the other side of the spectrum, taking instead of giving, pulling instead of pushing. It's one side of balance, but not necessarily the bad side. That needed Vaatu, and, to be honest, even he could have been decent-ish.

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    • Avatar Vyakara wrote:
       That needed Vaatu, and, to be honest, even he could have been decent-ish.


      HAhaha. Decent-ish. I love that.

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    • Well, yeah. Definitely decent-ish. See, there are some good things about chaos. Maybe not darkness (anybody sensing a dinosaur extinction hypothesis here) but definitely chaos. Vaatu is the push side I think, randomly coming up with new ideas sans reason or connection. He could have so easily been the embodiment of the eternal Now as all-encompassing. But no, he was just your basic generic Taoist ripoff devil figure. And you know what's worse? He won. If anything, chaos is about the individual, not on harmony and understanding, and Korra more than Aang, more than any known avatar before, has shown herself to be "independent". Which means relying entirely on the self if she can help it and denying that any way other than her own will work, which was her for Seasons 1, 2, and even a fair bit of 3 and 4. And she now can no longer have access to the vast treasure trove of history before her, the embodiment of order, that is things happening one after the other in a recognizable way. That's the order vs. chaos for you; so really, aside from, well, getting wiped out, Vaatu still won. And there's no reason save making Korra look good. It's bonkers, and they didn't even develop him well enough to make you understand.

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    • Yes, They made him quite evil. Unlike what you find in Hinduism (which a lot of the show is based off of) There are three gods Brahma (the creator) Vishnu (the preserver) and Siva (the destroyer).

      Siva was not evil, he was just the "push" side of Brahama's "pull" and Vishnu was the mediator, the one who maintained the balance between the two.

      Avatar was orginially like that. There were no inherently evil spirits, just Push and Pull. But they changed Korra so much and added this good and bad thing that is way too common.

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    • See? Thank you! Somebody gets it!

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    • Johny316 wrote:
      Yes, They made him quite evil. Unlike what you find in Hinduism (which a lot of the show is based off of) There are three gods Brahma (the creator) Vishnu (the preserver) and Siva (the destroyer).

      Siva was not evil, he was just the "push" side of Brahama's "pull" and Vishnu was the mediator, the one who maintained the balance between the two.

      Avatar was orginially like that. There were no inherently evil spirits, just Push and Pull. But they changed Korra so much and added this good and bad thing that is way too common.

      I still have no idea what they wanted to having "good" and "evil" spirits in LoK other than it would have been 'difficult' to address the idea of good and bad elements to an idea. The original idea of spirits being outside the morality of humans was interesting for the original series, but much of the original was thrown away in the sequel.

      I do wonder if human-like spirits have differences between them and the non-human spirits? We did have one become mortal to marry a human, but I wonder if the non-human ones can do that or if it's different? It's too bad we never saw one in LoK other than the banshee-like ones during book 2.

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    • It seems to make most sense for the already humanoid looking spirits to have a real human form, like Tiennhai or Old Iron though he never did that (I don't think), but though they were giant spirits, they actually looked more like people. The non-human looking spirits, like Raava/Vaatu, AyeAye, Wan Shi Tong, Koh, Mother of Faces,etc. are already anthropromorphic in that they have similar traits to humans, not physically but emotionally. They feel prejudice, anger, determination, hatred, pride,etc. as well as having human like personalities to boot. Like with Raava, the closest thing she has to a canon "human form" is the human host/her avatar, so maybe that's how it is with the non-human looking spirits, they can take a human host and/or enter their body, cause mutations, or kill them. I think that's much more interesting than just every spirit simply being able to turn human at any time they please, because then that wouldn't make them any different than the actual humans. Like any human could be a spirit in disguise and no one would even know it. Not that it's not a bad thing, I'm just saying. I think both good and bad things could come out of it, but imagine if that were the case in Wan's time period. Most people hated and feared the spirits and if one was caught turning back from a human form or vice versa, people would probably flip out and start killing eachother thinking they were a spirit but weren't. 

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    • There does seem to be limits to the emotional state of some of the spirits, as they do seem to be based on what they are supposed to represent. In particular, the ATLA spirits do seem to possess a sort of disconnect, even if they are the humanoid ones. It's a bit more difficult for LoK because we don't really get to know any, other than maybe Raava and that's very limited.

      With all the spirits running around in LoK, you'd think they would have elaborated on these sort of ideas or maybe explored them? Mainly, we just got cute pokemon running around.

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    • Yeah...bit mad that all the talk of humans and spirits living together turned into "spirits sans personality drift through the woods looking for cake".

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    • think about it if Lady Tenhai (spoiler alert to those who have not read the rift part three comic) fell in love with a human it was never necessary for her to take a human form permanently.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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