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  • For reference: She waltzed into the North and demanded they change their ways to accomodate her. She bullied and insulted their leaders when she didn't get her way. She assaulted Pakku because he wouldn't do what she wanted.

    She delayed the effort to defeat the Fire Lord by faking Appa being sick so that she could pose as a god in order to perform terrorist attacks on a local factory.

    She told Sokka he didn't love their mother as much as she did because he wasn't interested in pointlessly seeking revenge after fifteen years and used bloodbending (previously and subsequently established as a terrible crime) on an innocent man.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And Ozai is supposed to be a terrible monster?

    On the other hand, old lady Katara in Legend of Korra is cool. Helpful, supportive, not self-righteous and up her own ass with how great she is.

    So I forgive her for being a psychotic b-word who should have been brutally murdered two seconds into the series.

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    • I honestly can't tell if you're just trolling or seriously feel this way about her. 

      Look, taking Katara's worst moments and rewording them to make them sound as terrible as possible while ignoring the motive and results of them is kind of a close-minded argument. You also seem to ignore how crucial she was to helping Aang along the journey and in stopping the Fire Nation's assult on the rest of the world.

      If you are really stating your honest opinion, at least try and be a bit more respectful and civil about it. We don't want to start inflammatory arguments.

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    • you don't understand the motive behind those actions do you?

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    • i just followed this thread because i'm curious where it'll go. i've simply never seen anyone look at katara from that viewpoint, trolling or not.

      i will say this: given the fire nation propaganda, this is probably what most people would have thought of her. crazy how stuff can be changed around depending on the POV.

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    • yeah and seriously with out her then aang would still be in the iceburg and te firenation would have won the war but she is human like the rest of us so she is not perfect but she always supported aang when he needed and he did that back to her so yeah she was the one who brought thehope back up and she is a great water bender so yeah case closed she did good and helped stop the war.

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    • In complete fairness, I do sometimes think that Katara gets idolized too much.

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    • I'm not in support of her being idolized either, but that doesn't constitute this level of close-mindedness and ruthless mudslinging.

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    • True. I have difficulty taking hatedom of that magnitude seriously, though. Guess it comes from years of "Cloud is so emo & ghey OMG."

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    • Wow. I would rant on this, but Neo and Milesprower77 have already beaten me to it. Nonetheless, I'm still going to defend one of my favorite A:TLAB characters.

      She did not assault Pakku. She demanded that he teach her waterbending. She had risked her lives so many times in that journey just so that she could help Aang get safely across the world from the South Pole to the North Pole. She'd been captured, taunted, baited, and nearly killed by Zuko and his troops multiple times and she was coming, expecting to learn. She had been culturally raised to believe that women and men were equally good fighters. Given that most of her tribe was wiped out with one ship haunting it, she was rather relieved to know that there was another tribe on the other side of the world, thriving and carrying on her tribe's legacy. After traveling all the way from one pole to the other, risking her life to keep this innocent 12 year old boy safe, and finally arriving to the only place with other waterbenders whom she'd encountered in her life so far (since she hadn't met Hama and the swampbenders, yet), of course she was going to feel infuriated when a waterbending master wouldn't even teach her something of which she'd been dreaming her whole life and risked her own life for on the journey to this tribe.

      Bloodbending on an innocent man? It seems that you are implying that Katara knew that he was innocent. That's the most ridiculous critique on Katara's character that I've heard so far. It's not like she thought, hey, Zuko, let's go find a random ship, so that I can bloodbend innocent people, even though I made it clear that I was against bloodbending under normal circumstances. Instead, she thought that this man had killed her mother. Indeed, Sokka did not harp over it as much. However, Sokka was also not the one for whom their mother had taken the fall. She took the fall so that Katara, the true last Southern waterbender left in the tribe, would be safe. If Katara was truly so bloodthirsty, then wouldn't she have ended Yon Rha's life then and there when she found him? She let out her emotions of anguish and, after that, we never again heard a peep from her about Kya, except for touching her mother's necklace in the last episode of A:TLAB, if that even counts as a peep.

      You seem to have conveniently left out the time when Katara was the first member of Team Avatar to step out and reach a helping hand to Zuko and trust him, trying to see him as another human being. You also seem to have forgotten how Katara was the one who put down the insane and dangerous Azula during Sozin's Comet without killing or even taunting Azula. She put down the crazy princess who'd nearly killed two of her very close friends with lightning, without killing her, and even gave her a look of acknowledgement after putting her down. Zuko was not only taunting her, but readily willing to kill her. It was Katara who wrapped up the fight rather briefly, healing the future Firelord.

      Thus, while my answer may contain some bias due to the high ranking of Katara on my A:TLAB/TLOK character list, I conclude that your answers have taken her worst moments out of context and made her look like some bloodthirsty monster, when, really, she had her bad moments, but so did everyone else. Have you forgotten about how Sokka was willing to leave Zuko for dead in the North Pole? Or how Aang nearly slaughtered Ozai in battle? Same way, Katara might've bloodbent in range, but she not only stopped herself before seriously injuring him when she found that he was innocent, but she saw to it that bloodbending would be made illegal and completely outlawed by society. Therefore, Katara is not an uppity, narrow minded bitch, as you've implied.

      Indeed, many people in the fanbase do not like her and, admittedly, they have good reasons. However, the reasons provided here are completely blown out of proportion.

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    • Now I'm pretty sure op was trolling.

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    • With any main character, you have fans that don't like them. But main characters have a point. Katara's was to tell the story, according to Bryke. And one thing we can agree on, whether you like Katara or not, is that she grew as a person. For everytime she screwed up, she redeemed herself. And the ultimate redemption, for me, was when she went up against Azula and won.

      Aang, Sokka, and Toph weren't exactly all peachy either, but they all grew up. They evolved and changed.

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    • I think so, too. I can go on about how Aang nearly killed Ozai and those sandbenders who stole Appa. Or the countless times that Zuko captured, taunted, baited, and nearly killed all the Team Avatar members, save Toph. Oh, yeah, burning Toph's feet. Or how Sokka was going to make a meal out of Momo. Obviously, she's not perfect, but she had her bad moments. Also, Zuko was at least as hang up, if not moreso, on his past as she was on hers. Either way, I agree that this thread is most probably the work of a troll :P

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    • Lol if Katara had been "murdered two seconds into the series", then Aang would've likely been frozen, Azula would've ben roaming freely and stayed the Firelord, and Ozai would've burnt the Earth Kingdom -_-

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    • um your forgetting that if it wasnt for Katara, Aang would STILL be stuck in the iceberg! the world would be horrible!

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    • I said that... "Lol if Katara had been 'murdered two seconds into the series', then Aang would've likely been frozen".

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    • avatar: the remake: the last (of) katara, by yours truly...M. NIGHT SHAMALAMADINGDONG!!!!

      it starts out just like the real one...the cool/promising intro and everything, and the high camera shots coming in on the iceberg, and then coming down on the siblings fishing. katara tries to waterbend, but she has to do some extra shamalanairkarate, rocking the boat and pissing sokka off. she finally gets the globule in the air with the fish inside, and sokka doesn't notice cuz he's so pissed about rocking the boat making him miss a fish and almost dump them and girls always screw things ups and you'll never learn and we'll never eat and yelling about all of it. so he accidentally stabs the globule and breaks it over his head, just like a rotten egg. he can't take magic water anymore, and savagely kills katara with his spear, spilling blood and forever banishing himself from nickelodeon, but that doesn't matter, cuz MNS was making it and nick is a big pussy about blood and stuff anyway. he goes to get rid of the body but finds aang instead, and he kills him too b/c he thinks he could have been a witness. the new avatar shows up in sokka's tribe but never learns anything b/c sokka won't let him take any bathroom breaks. zuko only shows up now to fight the avatar because #lolyoloshamalanplotbending but he still thinks he's an airbender so he cant' find him and takes grangran instead. the avatar liked grangran so when she's taken he goes into the yolo state (ironic because the avatar doesn't only live once) and decimates the fn and ends the war and becomes a hero and all like general fong planned, all before sokka even pottytrained the little f_cker. sokka becomes some emoish emotionless overly dramatic person because it's all his fault, and finally it ends there.

      who would have ever known that the greatest show on television could have gone so differently had sokka had one tiny little different experience at the beginning? i would have never even guessed that potential was in the kid then...

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    • LMFAO Intelligence4 that was really good XD

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    • You're confused, hon. She just wanted to be a waterbender! It wasn't fair, they were discriminating the female race, they thought that females should just stick to being innocent, passive little girls who take care of people, but not beat people up, come on, put yourself in your shoes, how would you like it if you were her? Also, she didn't "bully" the leaders, she just tried to persuade them, as nicely as possible, and she didn't assault Pakku, she basically threw something at him. So, if I throw a book at a jerkface who tried to take advantage of me, am I some bitchy assaulter?

      About pretending Appa was sick, she did it to help all those malnourished, poor people, treated badly by the Fire Nation, that is really mean and unfair to say a young lady who lied and cheated to help people is worse then an evil dictator (Ozai), who wanted to burn down a whole country for "rebeling".

      Excuse me? An evil dude who kills your mom is "innocent"? K, so Sokka is laid back and Katara can hold a grudge, I'm sorry, I didn't know you didn't know people have flaws. :/

      You want psychotic? Look at Ozai and Azula, will ya? And by the way, Katara doesn't think she's great at all, when does she say something along of the lines of "I'm so awesome, trollololo.", in fact, the most pride she can have is looking back at something she's done and smiling proudly. Is that illegal now? It's called self-esteem. She told Jet that Aang is a better waterbender then her, she always strives to be better, always saying "Well, this person's better at it...", but she is proud, but not cocky, and that's good, she works hard for what she wants, not clawing her way to the top with despicable crap, which is apparently what you think she does.

      I'm sorry, I hope this doesn't sound rude or anything, I'm just kind of annoyed with this..

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    • GuybrushismyAngel wrote: You're confused, hon. She just wanted to be a waterbender! It wasn't fair, they were discriminating the female race, they thought that females should just stick to being innocent, passive little girls who take care of people, but not beat people up, come on, put yourself in your shoes, how would you like it if you were her? Also, she didn't "bully" the leaders, she just tried to persuade them, as nicely as possible, and she didn't assault Pakku, she basically threw something at him. So, if I throw a book at a jerkface who tried to take advantage of me, am I some bitchy assaulter?

      About pretending Appa was sick, she did it to help all those malnourished, poor people, treated badly by the Fire Nation, that is really mean and unfair to say a young lady who lied and cheated to help people is worse then an evil dictator (Ozai), who wanted to burn down a whole country for "rebeling".

      Excuse me? An evil dude who kills your mom is "innocent"? K, so Sokka is laid back and Katara can hold a grudge, I'm sorry, I didn't know you didn't know people have flaws. :/

      You want psychotic? Look at Ozai and Azula, will ya? And by the way, Katara doesn't think she's great at all, when does she say something along of the lines of "I'm so awesome, trollololo.", in fact, the most pride she can have is looking back at something she's done and smiling proudly. Is that illegal now? It's called self-esteem. She told Jet that Aang is a better waterbender then her, she always strives to be better, always saying "Well, this person's better at it...", but she is proud, but not cocky, and that's good, she works hard for what she wants, not clawing her way to the top with despicable crap, which is apparently what you think she does.

      I'm sorry, I hope this doesn't sound rude or anything, I'm just kind of annoyed with this..

      Haha you just spoke my mind and pretty much said what I did, so, kudos to you :)

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    • "So, if I throw a book at a jerkface who tried to take advantage of me, am I some bitchy assaulter?"

      No, but not because throwing things does not constitute an illegal attack. If you perform physical violence, it is actually battery. Yes, this can apply to snowballs, depending on the context.

      Judging whether or not Katara could have been legally prosecuted for chucking a snowball at the back of Pakku's head would require a ridiculous number of assumptions about the Water Tribe legal system, but any penalty that she might have incurred was most likely deemed null & void when Pakku accepted her challenge to a formal duel. This is also ignoring the fact that he obviously chose not to press charges, even before he changed his mind about teaching her.

      Of course, it should be noted that these circumstances were all rather convenient for Katara, because she was in fact breaking the law, & had she persisted in targeting Pakku, it would have definitely been harassment.

      That said, the IRL women's rights movement was founded on civil disobedience.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Of course, it should be noted that these circumstances were all rather convenient for Katara, because she was in fact breaking the law, & had she persisted in targeting Pakku, it would have definitely been harassment.

      Maybe it wasn't a law. Maybe women had never tried anything like that before, so it was assumed.

      And obviously Pakku didn't care that much. He knew he could beat Katara.

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    • It's unlikely that a tribe that uses water, ice, & snow as weapons doesn't have rules against starting fights with those things, & in any case, she already broke the law by trying to use waterbending to fight whilst being in the possession of 1 more X chromosome than is legally allowed.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      It's unlikely that a tribe that uses water, ice, & snow as weapons doesn't have rules against starting fights with those things

      They had all those spears and stuff, too.

      And what about snow ball fights? If three year old kids are throwing snow balls, does that make it illegal?

      And it's not like Katara threw an ice-spear at the back of Pakku's head. That is probably illegal. XD

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    • The simple answer is that it's probably treated differently, when it comes to kids. If you think about it, a lot of things that kids do would be considered crimes if they were done by adults. You don't arrest a child for stealing because he took a toy without asking, for instance. Also, Water Tribe police or whatever are probably expected to make common sense judgments about the situation.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      The simple answer is that it's probably treated differently, when it comes to kids. If you think about it, a lot of things that kids do would be considered crimes if they were done by adults.

      Yeah. If an adult walked into Chuck E. Cheese by themselves and started playing in that thing with all the tubes, he'd probably be arrested. XD

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    • Ageism.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Ageism.

      It's a drag, man. XD

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    • Way to crush the dreams of that poor adult. I suppose that being an adult is about having your dreams crushed.

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    • Kubernes wrote:
      Way to crush the dreams of that poor adult. I suppose that being an adult is about having your dreams crushed.

      I doubt it.

      But Chuck E. Cheese is where I'm having my freaking 18th birthday party. I don't care, bro. I'll just take some little kids with me. XD

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    • While I agree that she shouldn't have chucked the snowball, we also have to view it from her perspective. She'd risked her life many a time in order to keep Aang safe and learn something for which she'd been dreaming her entire life. She knew no other waterbenders at this point and she was almost in Aang's position. Then, there was a tribe across the world that was basically parallel to her own tribe. So, she thought that things would finally go well after having trouble such an annoying distance. However, she was coldly rebuffed and, thus, retaliated against Pakku. Anyone would be mad in her situation. The only people who carried on her tribe's culture, for whom she'd had to travel across the world, turned her down. But, yes, what she did was probably technically illegal.

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    • Master Poophead. Lol.

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    • Steph32597s wrote: Master Poophead. Lol.

      Lmfaooooooo XD

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    • It just seemed like a breach of cultural protocol than anything illegal. 

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    • Breaching cultural protocol IS illegal..Whatever, I'd break the North Pole's laws anytime, they suck. XD

      Oh god, you make sound Sokka sound horrible, I mostly shrug off anything "horrible" that he implies, but really. o.o, he wanted to eat a cute little lemur, let a bunch of innocent people die, leave Zuko to freeze to death, honestly..I know he's good at heart, but still, I feel like he only likes select few people, he only seems to care about his friends and family, and everyone else is like "Who gives a crap?"

      So much for being warm, gruff, and cuddly.. o3o

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    • GuybrushismyAngel wrote:  let a bunch of innocent people die

      What are you talking about. He didn't let anyone die.

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    • Aha, *didn't*, but would if he didn't have a sister who has to help every stupid person she sees. What about "The Painted Lady"? 

      "Hey, let's ditch these people, we'll help them in the long run..."

      What if they're dead after the "long run"? DX

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    • yeah I mean he saved some villagers from a flooding that jet was doing to the village and also said that a village was about to erupt along with aang of course don't forget that.

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    • voulcano sorry I ment

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    • Of course, see, this is what happens when you look at the bad, Onamato.

      What am I talking about? Sokka is a sweetheart. <3

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    • Jet is a douche bag, I didn't give a crap when he died.

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    • Though I'm surprised, he's the only person who ever died in ATLA.. o.o

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    • GuybrushismyAngel wrote:
      Though I'm surprised, he's the only person who ever died in ATLA.. o.o

      No. Yue died.

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    • Gsmith1030
      Gsmith1030 removed this reply because:
      wrong comment and I did not mean to get rid of the box
      02:24, January 7, 2014
      This reply has been removed

    • 3 have died though out the series yue died in book one jet died in book 2 and combustion man died in book 3 yue:north pole spirit oasis jet:lake lougie combustion man: western air temple

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    • Gsmith1030 wrote:

      3 have died though out the series yue died in book one jet died in book 2 and combustion man died in book 3 yue:north pole spirit oasis jet:lake lougie combustion man: western air temple

      Right. Yue is just the one that came to mind right away.

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    • Oh yeah, Combustion Man..Damn, CM was interesting, I hope somebody wrote a cool fanfic about him.

      And I've decided I'll stubbornly call him Sparky Sparky Boom Man instead, I like that alias so much better. XD

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    • GuybrushismyAngel wrote:

      And I've decided I'll stubbornly call him Sparky Sparky Boom Man instead, I like that alias so much better. XD

      Don't we all? XD

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    • i can't help but read sparky sparky boom man in sokka's voice.

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    • Intelligence4 wrote:
      i can't help but read sparky sparky boom man in sokka's voice.

      Right? XD

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    • Oh god, I miss Sokka, he's like another boring old adult in the flashbacks in LoK, same with Aang..

      NUUUUUU. WHY, WHY'D THEY HAVE TO GROW UP, WHY COULDN'T THEY STAY IN NEVERLAND?

      Technically they would've never grown up had they not made LoK, but I'm not saying I hope they didn't...Maybe. :P

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    • Well, you have the comics to keep them young a bit longer.

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    • GuybrushismyAngel wrote:
      Oh god, I miss Sokka, he's like another boring old adult in the flashbacks in LoK

      OH MY GOSH! I MISS HIM, TOO!

      But anyway, let's talk about Katara here, and Sokka on another thread. XD

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    • Katara was so endearingly grumpy and funny in the first season, then in the second season she was a sweetheart, and the third she was a b-word, and I didn't like her at all until Sozin's Comet.

      I hate it when characters change. DX, and nobody kill me, but I'm not so impressed with LoK so far, honestly, I mean, it's wicked cool that the concept is benders in the 20's, but..still..LoK is also the reason the kiddos I adored from ATLA grew up. :/

      And I didn't like Toph in the third season either...Why the heck did Katara and Toph get so unlikeable? Getting grumpy from getting closer to having to battle Sozin? I guess that's realistic, the girls are spazzing out why the guys are still nice, laid-back folk. XD

      I just stereotyped the genders.. *hides*

      Its funny, I'm kind of insulting myself too, I'm a girl. :P

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    • Does anybody have the ATLA episodes? Some idiot working for Netflix suggested they take it all off. AND THEY DID... 

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    • why would they do that? dumb...but not like i really care anyway, i get them all from watchcartoononline.com. just google that with the title of the episode you want to watch. for example: http://www.watchcartoononline.com/the-legend-of-korra-season-2-book-two-spirits-episode-1-2-rebel-spiritthe-southern-lights

      you can find the other korra episodes on the sidebar. each book of atla is separate, but does the same thing.

      i was trying to find the game with some friends tonight and we passed all the nick channels, and the southern air temple was on.

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    • Just buy them. They are pretty cheap new.

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    • Trust me, "pretty cheap" adds up.

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    • ^If you go overboard. $40 for the entire TLA with free shipping is worth it. That's if you like the show enough.

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    • $40 is officially out of "pretty cheap" territory. Jesus, I was complaining about getting a shirt, a soundtrack, & 50 razor blades for $50.

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    • $40 for three tv seasons is pretty cheap.

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    • Trust me, I know a thing or 2 about being cheap.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Trust me, I know a thing or 2 about being cheap.

      You know you're cheap when the mop you use to clean the floor is a sock attacked to a broken broom handle.  <--- That, my friends, is my life. XD

      Look at Barnes and Noble. They might have the combination cheaper.

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    • Thanks for the tips. ;)

      Who wants to go on the IRC and chat?

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    • no problem. :) another good tip that i forgot to mention in my last post is that it helps to have an ad-blocker installed on your browser if you want to watch them online.

      also if you actually buy the physical dvd it takes time to ship, which is a pain in the ass. if you're gonna buy them, just get them off like itunes or something. and why buy them if you can find them equal-quality for free? faster that way too. (and btw, $40 is not that cheap, even for three seasons).

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    • Supporting the people who worked on it. I'm not going to get all preachy or anything, but that's why I bought the soundtrack instead of just using a YouTube to MP3 downloader.

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    • good point.

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    • Buying a season from iTunes or a similar service is far more expensive than a physical copy ($2 an episode). I think if you like it that much, you could wait 3~5 days (pending on service).

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    • You don't really have to wait, you can keep watching it for free on anime sites in the meantime.

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    • Oh boy. I had to put my 2 cents in on this one..

      Personally, i've always had a hard time digesting Katara. And it is mostly because a lot of my exes would compare me to her. Negatively. Self Righteous, "goody two shoes", emotional, bossy, overly "motherly". I'd like to say this on her behalf- I admire her selflessness. Every action that she has made has been solely for the betterment/benefit of another. Her ONE moment of selfishness was to avenge her mother, and even THEN, it wasn't truly selfishness, more or less her version of "justice". And yet she still valued "mercy" over "justice" by sparing his life. I have to say, she is a little underrated, just like Superman is. Everyone likes to judge the "little miss/mr. perfects" and they enjoy picking people like us apart. It takes a lot of courage, strength, willpower, patience, and empathy to be the type of woman that she is. And yes, she is incredibly flawed, but again, she doesn't do it out of selfishness. I've seen those personality quizzes where they try to assign each ATLA/LOK character as a certain personality type, and I always feel like Katara should be an ENFJ just like me. Just my opinion, of course! People like her are a rare breed, and while some of you state that she gets "idolized" too often, I have to disagree. It isn't common to come across someone like that, which is why I feel she's underrated.

      Again, she isn't my favourite character (I have this weird thing with characters that remind me of me... I tend to really dislike them)

      If it even matters, Iroh is my favourite, hands down <3

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    • Idolization/idealization is the overflowing praise & downplaying of faults as just another example of how great the character is, so yes, she is idolized. Also, people dislike Superman not because of his personality, which I'm not even convinced is all of that saintly given that there's an entire website devoted to him acting like a super jerk, but because he's way too overpowered.

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    • seriously, that guy has like all the superpowers, it's just a tad overkill.

      then there's this: http://9gag.com/gag/aOqx7DM

      but this isn't related to avatar, so w.e. (although that link does mention waterbending...)

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    • Aquaman, much like most superheroes, has powers depending on the writer.

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    • Really? you're going to compare Katara, who at worst only has a handful of selfish actions, to a guy who tried to burn down most of the world? It's like comparing that that annoying coworker to Hitler.

      "I know the guy killed 6 million Jews, but that girl at my food out of the company fridge. And they say Hitler was a monster."
      
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    • That's funny. But I don't think Katara is over-idolized. She doesn't have any toys made after her except that lego. There aren't any Katara Brand Water Skins. There aren't any Katara Brand Silk Dresses. Or Katara themed hair loopies. Or Katara Brand Parkas. <-- Although, they probably could make them and sell a lot. XD

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    • I don't see how Katara is idolized, either. I mean, she doesn't even have that many fans to begin with. If anything, then I can go on and on about how Zuko is overly idolized by the fandom, which he actually kind of is. But this is about Katara. She's really not idolized, like everyone is trying to say she is. She's honestly a good character, but it bothers me how people put her down for being goody two shoes. While I love the other characters, if she were to be lax like the rest of them, then they would get nothing done. They need a mature, strong willed leader to get them through these times and Katara really does fit that role. I like all the characters, almost, and Katara for her maturity and sensibility. And it's not like we don't see her struggle and vent her anger, because we do.

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    • Am I the only one who thinks Hannah Montana's "Nobody's Perfect" everytime I read this thread? XD

      I really need a life. XD

      Katara is not a goody two shoes. I think she tries to be in the beginning, but realizes later that you can't be a goody two shoes and voice your opinion at the same time. Life just doesn't work like that. She's more of a "Whether the cup is half empty or half full doesn't matter as long as there's something in it" kind of gal.

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    • Always attributed her to being the mother figure in the group.

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    • The whole point of Zuko's fandom is that he starts out as a jerk & gets better over time. I have no doubt that he is idealized by some, as this is true of basically every character ever, but this is considered normal praise for Katara:

      "Every action that she has made has been solely for the betterment/benefit of another. Her ONE moment of selfishness was to avenge her mother, and even THEN, it wasn't truly selfishness, more or less her version of "justice". And yet she still valued "mercy" over "justice" by sparing his life. I have to say, she is a little underrated, just like Superman is. Everyone likes to judge the "little miss/mr. perfects" and they enjoy picking people like us apart. It takes a lot of courage, strength, willpower, patience, and empathy to be the type of woman that she is."

      Now, it wasn't my intention to pick on anyone in this thread, I just didn't have outside examples prepared.

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    • Maybe if Katara made more mistakes then more people would have liked her? I always thought she was fine.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: The whole point of Zuko's fandom is that he starts out as a jerk & gets better over time. I have no doubt that he is idealized by some, as this is true of basically every character ever, but this is considered normal praise for Katara:

      "Every action that she has made has been solely for the betterment/benefit of another. Her ONE moment of selfishness was to avenge her mother, and even THEN, it wasn't truly selfishness, more or less her version of "justice". And yet she still valued "mercy" over "justice" by sparing his life. I have to say, she is a little underrated, just like Superman is. Everyone likes to judge the "little miss/mr. perfects" and they enjoy picking people like us apart. It takes a lot of courage, strength, willpower, patience, and empathy to be the type of woman that she is."

      Now, it wasn't my intention to pick on anyone in this thread, I just didn't have outside examples prepared.

      Well, in all honesty, I don't see those are bad arguments. Yes, Katara's called entirely selfless, which I'm sure she's not, but she's still a good and vital character in the show, imo.

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    • I'm rather indifferent to Katara.

      The point is that she is idealized, IE elevated to the best possible state. You could contrast it with the OP: Very little of what it says is actually "wrong," but it's stated in the most negative possible way.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: I'm rather indifferent to Katara.

      The point is that she is idealized, IE elevated to the best possible state. You could contrast it with the OP: Very little of what it says is actually "wrong," but it's stated in the most negative possible way.

      Okay, no arguments there. But, again, I feel like that argument applies to a lot of characters, like Zuko and Toph.

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    • I don't. It is somewhat open to interpretation, but I think that people are drawn specifically to Zuko's negatives, & in Toph's case, I believe it just tends to not be talked about because people care that she invented metalbending, sees with seismic activity, etc., not that she's super annoying if you ask her to do anything.

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    • But I don't see how Katara's been so annoying when asked to do anything. I mean, she's a little bossy, yes, but she keeps the group together. But it bothers me how everyone thinks that Zuko is the only character who went from bad to good. He wasn't. There were also Mai, Ty Lee, and Iroh. And they all also had loyalty to the Fire Nation and, in Iroh's case, the burden of a bloodthirsty family. In fact, Iroh didn't even have the bloodline of the Avatar to symbolize his goodness.

      Well, I like Toph a lot, too, so, no arguments there.

      I think that the fanbase on Azula is quite interesting. Almost definitely the most controversial in the Avatar fandom. I mean, Azula gets, both, praise and hatred for he faults and actions. I've always found her interesting to explore.

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    • "But I don't see how Katara's been so annoying when asked to do anything."

      I said that about Toph.

      "But it bothers me how everyone thinks that Zuko is the only character who went from bad to good. He wasn't. There were also Mai, Ty Lee, and Iroh."

      On-screen development is the kicker. Also, I would say that none of them really apply. Iroh never liked the war, he just changed to actively opposing it, which is still a major change, but not the same type of change. Mai was never like, "Holy crap, this war is kind of terrible," she just changed sides because she was never that invested in it anyway, but was invested in Zuko. Ty Lee was primarily held back by her fear of Azula, & was always fundamentally a "good girl."

      "And they all also had loyalty to the Fire Nation and, in Iroh's case, the burden of a bloodthirsty family."

      I guess Iroh just didn't inherit the psychopath genes.

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    • My bad haha I thought that you were comparing Toph to Katara in that analogy.

      I agree with that, but I still find it more impressive that Iroh was such a good person that he could turn his life around, himself. And, actually, we don't know for fact that Iroh never liked the war, because he was a general and, before Lu Ten died, he was making jokes on burning down Ba Sing Se. I really don't see Zuko as more impressive than him, at all, because Zuko had help from a lot of people and he also complained a lot, so, it's not like he did it all by himself. I actually found Mai's and Ty Lee's transformations more impressive, because they did it in a few minutes, without having to have their characters shoved down the audience's throat every time that there was a tough decision to make. Same goes for Iroh. He used to be loyal to his father and a general for a war, but turned his life around after Lu Ten. The fact that all of these people did it so quickly and independently makes me find them to be much more respectable than Zuko's transformation.

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    • "And, actually, we don't know for fact that Iroh never liked the war, because he was a general and, before Lu Ten died, he was making jokes on burning down Ba Sing Se."

      It's been said OOC. Not as in he politically opposed the war, or that he refused to perform, but that he didn't like the actual killing & violence.

      "I really don't see Zuko as more impressive than him, at all,"

      Qualitative difference. Not quantitative. We should note that very few people actually dislike Iroh.

      "I actually found Mai's and Ty Lee's transformations more impressive, because they did it in a few minutes, without having to have their characters shoved down the audience's throat every time that there was a tough decision to make."

      That's not really hard to do, a writer can just decide to have their character change sides at any minute.

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    • What's OOC?

      Agreed that a lot of fans like Iroh. But, again, I don't see the quality in what Zuko did. Imo, his transformation was really stretched out and not nearly as epic as it's said to b. But that just comes down to perception, I guess....

      I liked it, though. Those few minutes weren't just them saying, "oh, yeah, I'm going to go and switch sides, now, because you're evil". They were pretty empowering. They were about the two girls standing up to Azula and putting an end to her using them and reign of terror. They were stopping her. And, most of all, the way that Ty Lee defended Mai was beautiful. That whole scene showed that righteousness and friendship can conquer fear and intimidation.

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    • Out of Character/Out of Context.

      I liked Ty Lee's scene, because I like Ty Lee. I didn't care about Mai's, because I don't care about Mai.

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    • Oh, okay.

      I actually agree completely haha. I'm not really a fan of Mai's. I don't hate her, but she stands where Zuko stands in my opinion: indifference. And I also like Ty Lee :) So, I have pretty much the same view on both girls that you do.

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    • Zuko was a bull-headed brat until the third season, I was like "Seriously? Shut up Zuko, nobody cares." when he went out into the storm so lightning could hit him and he could re-direct it and then he started crying and yelling. Actually he mostly confuses me.. XD

      Actually, he was a pretty cool guy in the first season, and not neccessarily a jerk, just misguided and kind of temperamental, but then in the second season he's a dramatic weirdo, and then in the third season he's....he's alright, I still miss the Zuko from the first season, to be honest the Zuko from the third season is boring and kind of lacks personality...He basically rants about how he's changed and nothing else, but I did admire that he wanted to help Katara avenge her mother, and that he saved her from getting killed by Mrs. Crazy, so yeah, he's good in my book. :)

      But in the second season I was waiting for Gaang to come back in every episode so I wouldn't bash my head due to Zuko's stupidity...

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    • I actually liked Zuko more as time went on, with him becoming my favorite character at the end of "The Firebending Masters."

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    • The goofy dragon episode? XD

      Oh yay, he recognizes that he has a new motive and that colorful fire is pretty. *clapclapclapclap*

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    • Well, you're like really intelligent, so please specify why.. XD

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    • In the earliest episodes, Zuko was a rather boring one-note villain. "I will capture the Avatar & restore my honor!" Like most villains, he didn't seem to give a thought to what would happen after that.

      "The Storm" established that he had a deeper motive, but still, a lot of villains have a troubled past, so it didn't really set him apart that much.

      The end of Book 1 & the beginning of Book 2 expanded on this even further, introducing the conflict with his sister, & having him go rogue--not "one of the good guys," but also not with the Fire Nation. We also see him open up to some of the Earth Kingdom peasants, but by the end, he still hasn't lost his ruthlessness, as he steals that family's ostrich horse.

      The first time I really liked Zuko's character was with "Zuko Alone," when he showed that he had the capacity to be heroic. I liked some of his episodes here, but he still wasn't really doing much, & then he went back to being a predictable villain--in this case, predictable because now it was very obvious that we were just waiting for him to finally get it together & join the Gaang.

      He keeps up this trend for about half of Season 3, generally acting like a jerk, but when he finally does get together, it is very satisfying. He just orders Ozai to sit down & starts listing off all of the reasons why he sucks, from fighting a child to war crimes. Then he redirects his lightning, & immediately sets off to go help Iroh--not that he needed it.

      So his character does deepen incrementally throughout the show. "The Firebending Masters" is really just the episode that ties it all together, with him adventuring as Aang's partner for the first time since "The Red Spirit," discovering how he can use Firebending constructively, & being deemed by Ran & Shaw to be more than just his ancestry & past, accomplishing the same feat as his esteemed uncle beforehand.

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    • i wonder what zuko's throught processes were after discovering that iroh had already broken out of prison. i wonder what his plan was before he knew that, and what he was thinking when he had to change plans. we know he was going to join team avatar and help him defeat his dad, but was he planning on iroh joining team avatar too? and so when he figured out that iroh was gone, did he just write him out of the plan? details like those would be very interesting to know.

      and on iroh...i bet he busted himself out of prison just before the eclipse. that would allow him to still use firebending to escape, but then not allow the guards to use firebending against him while he ran out, and after beefing up like that, he could just overpower the guards w/o firebending.

      honestly, how does one expect a regular prison like that to work on a bender? especially a fire or air bender, who can't be separated from their element. i remember the boiling rock and all, but the capital city prison didn't put people in coolers. speaking of the boiling rock, how'd they power those coolers? they didn't have any electricity...

      another thing i think of when i think of that is chi blocking. ty lee had to learn it from somewhere, right? or did she do a mai and think of it all by herself? if she didn't learn it on her own, you'd think the technique would be employed in a prison.

      wow...sorry that got so far off topic, and sorry for jumping around so much!

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    • "and on iroh...i bet he busted himself out of prison just before the eclipse. that would allow him to still use firebending to escape, but then not allow the guards to use firebending against him while he ran out, and after beefing up like that, he could just overpower the guards w/o firebending."

      This is my theory, as well. Way more believable than him just ripping the bars apart with his bare hands.

      "honestly, how does one expect a regular prison like that to work on a bender? especially a fire or air bender, who can't be separated from their element."

      If the guards saw him doing something suspicious, they could gang up on him, call for backup from the palace, use gas on him, etc. They also weren't expecting him to be as formidable as he was.

      "i remember the boiling rock and all, but the capital city prison didn't put people in coolers. speaking of the boiling rock, how'd they power those coolers? they didn't have any electricity..."

      They seemed to have electric circuits, being able to open & close all of the doors with the flick of a switch. It probably just wasn't developed enough to be put into mass production yet. Or perhaps the switches, coolers, etc. used the steam produced from the boiling lake.

      "another thing i think of when i think of that is chi blocking. ty lee had to learn it from somewhere, right? or did she do a mai and think of it all by herself? if she didn't learn it on her own, you'd think the technique would be employed in a prison."

      There have been some vague statements about it having a dark & secret past.

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    • then i want to wonder how a nice "pink-aura-ed" girl like ty lee gets her hands on a dark and secret art.

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    • The million dollar question. I've always held that someone at the circus taught it to her.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      The million dollar question. I've always held that someone at the circus taught it to her.

      Maybe she learned it from her sisters. XD Imagine: seven deadly girls in one family,

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    • the circus does seem to attrack some questionable characters sometimes...

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    • I'm more interested in how the style landed into the Equalist camp.

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    • Maybe a rogue Kyoshi Warrior?

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    • My theory is that another group predated the Equalists, headed by an ex Kyoshi Warrior, as Steph said. Under this theory, Amon would have joined the group, learned the art, rose through the ranks, & reorganized it.

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    • I was mostly kidding.

      But maybe all those years when Tarrlok didn't have contact with Noatok, Noatok was learning how to  chi-block. He seemed like an effective fighter without bending.

      Neo, start a thread about it. We're derailing this one.

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    • I already did once, it went mostly unanswered. Also, it's not really necessary to worry about derailing after just a post or 2. And I don't really have much to say, that's the whole theory. I mean, I have more details thought out, but as the plot to an RP, not what I think actually happened.

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    • Sounds like it can be about anything.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Idolization/idealization is the overflowing praise & downplaying of faults as just another example of how great the character is, so yes, she is idolized. Also, people dislike Superman not because of his personality, which I'm not even convinced is all of that saintly given that there's an entire website devoted to him acting like a super jerk, but because he's way too overpowered.

      Yes, i'm very well aware of the definition and correct usage of the word "idolization". I was merely expressing my sentiments that I never hear anyone idolizing her. I'm not saying that Superman is a saint, either. I think it's just the general idea that with so much power, he, for the most part, is still good. And yes, you're right, just play INJUSTICE and you'll see his "dark" side. To whoever brought up Aquaman, that poor lad is also a bit misunderstood and underrated! ANYWAY, as much as I love DC comics, we are here for AVATAR!

      While she isn't my favourite, I definitely have a lot of respect for little miss Katara <3


      I don't think that everyone believes that Zuko was the only character to go from bad to good, but with Ty Lee and Mai, they seemed, to me, more neutral. They never struck me as truly "evil", they just kinda tagged along with Azula as her right/left hand women.They never really struggled with their morality as much as Zuko did. He had a lot riding on his choices... gaining acceptance from his father, as one example. Just my opinion, naturally.

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    • Katara suffers from 'main charcater syndrome'. I mean she is the only person to have mastered waterbending in like a few weeks. Terrible writing. Also She seems really arrogant, "my bending is more powerful than your's Hama" to a lady that just taught her techniques and asking someone to forgo thier culture just to facilitate her ego, shows that she was a real 'female dog'. Its funny also how she rejected Zuko for so long when they joined even after he hekped bring her father home and by threatening him to snuff him out if he ever hurt Aang. I mean come one she is challenging a bender with so much more combat experience and ability, it shows Zuko's great character that he didn't just send a charged fireblast in her face then and there for that absolute disrespectful comment. Writers got it so wrong by overpowering her with absolutely no legit story to facilitate this exponential increase in power. I'm sorry Katara fanboys and girls but Katara is a horribly wriiten character. The only thing that gives her some credence was that she was Aang's 'stress relief' otherwise she was a crap character with PIS.

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    • In Katara's defense she was really good in the desert trying to maintain everyone united despit Aang being such a jerk. And also she was betrayed by Zuko once so she was still in doubt if he was really goo or not as well as being angry for his actions after the moment thy shared at the cave.

      But you guys are trying to ignore and even justify her mistakes. As all good character Katara have good traits but also bad ones like being too selfrighteous, wanting everything the way she wants it, etc.

      Was it right of her to disrespect Pakku's culture? Of course she traveled a long way and risked her life, but so what? Should he just ignore his culture and everything was taught to him and he believed since he was a kid just because of that? Just because of that she have the right to get angry and throw things at people that doesn't do what she wants? And this seem to be a common trait of hers as whenever someone do something she doesn't like she just shout at them and tell them to stop doing it without even listening to them.

      "Oh Toph. I can steal from pirates but you cannot cheat on cheaters" - Moral-Queen Katara.

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    • But you guys are trying to ignore and even justify her mistakes. As all good character Katara have good traits but also bad ones like being too selfrighteous, wanting everything the way she wants it, etc.

      It's not that I'm "ignoring" it, I just don't see the sense in trying to argue with "Katara is a psychotic bitch, a terrorist, & worse than Ozai!" which are all claims made by the OP. When someone is being that hyperbolic, I'd have better luck trying to persuade a rabid dog not to bite me.

      Also, just because she "makes mistakes," it doesn't mean that I have to agree that anything someone claims was wrong of her to do actually was. And there are cases like Bolindude, where I don't have an answer for his complaint, but I'm not convinced either.

      Was it right of her to disrespect Pakku's culture?

      Why is blatant sexism suddenly deserving of respect because it's "his culture"?

      Of course she traveled a long way and risked her life, but so what?

      That's actually a really good point that I hadn't thought of, I don't know why you're blowing it off with "so what?"

      Just because of that she have the right to get angry and throw things at people that doesn't do what she wants?

      Well, they claimed that women couldn't fight, & that's a pretty good way to prove that they can.

      And this seem to be a common trait of hers as whenever someone do something she doesn't like she just shout at them and tell them to stop doing it without even listening to them.

      I don't really remember, the only reason I'm quoting this is so that people don't say I ignored it.

      "Oh Toph. I can steal from pirates but you cannot cheat on cheaters" - Moral-Queen Katara.

      Wasn't her objection more about that the scams would eventually get them into trouble?

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    • Why is blatant sexism suddenly deserving of respect because it's "his culture"?

      I don't see any sexism in that. Women are probably the only ones who can use healing so i would also make them train healing all their lives so when we fight we have good healers. The healing a.k.a women's work was never treated as something inferior nor were the women treted this way because they didn't fight.

      That's actually a really good point that I hadn't thought of, I don't know why you're blowing it off with "so what?"

      Should all the people in the avatar world acknowledge the fact that she traveled and risked her life when she could as well just stay home safe? If you think the answer is yes, why do you think everyone should acknowledge her sacrifices?

      Well, they claimed that women couldn't fight, & that's a pretty good way to prove that they can.

      And he says she is good but still won't teach her, so i don't really think it have something to do with can or cannot fight as she proved herself in that.

      I don't really remember, the only reason I'm quoting this is so that people don't say I ignored it.

      I don't understand what you meant here.

      Also how do you make all those quotes? I can only make one at the top of my post.

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    • SaitamaBro wrote:

      Women are probably the only ones who can use healing so i would also make them train healing all their lives so when we fight we have good healers.

      In Book 1 of LoK there is a male healer. But yeah, I often have thought about whether the Water Tribe tradition of having female healers is sexist. I wonder if it was inspired by their patron spirits; Tui and La are female and male, and both have different roles (Tui the moon spirit, La the ocean spirit) and so perhaps the different roles for each gender are just mirroring the different roles of these spirits. And neither the moon or ocean is more important than the other, but each spirit simply has a different but essential role to perform. For us in our society, we can see it as sexist because in history gender differences have usually included a view that one of the genders are somehow 'inferior', while perhaps in the Water Tribe there was actually no inferiority about it. Pakku did come off quite sexist imo, especially because the SWT did train women waterbending (Katara and Hama are two examples) and so he should have been more appreciative of the fact that the NWT have different customs than the SWT, and perhaps in that way Katara was justified to do what she did. 

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    • I don't see any sexism in that. Women are probably the only ones who can use healing so i would also make them train healing all their lives so when we fight we have good healers. The healing a.k.a women's work was never treated as something inferior nor were the women treted this way because they didn't fight.

      ...Honestly, it really concerns me that you "don't see it."

      It's saying that women are relegated to a certain role in society. It's gender discrimination. It's sexism.

      As the mantra goes, "Separate but equal is inherently unequal." You can't have a system where you try to enforce different standards for a subset of the population & then try to claim that it's still equality, it doesn't work.

      You said below that you don't think the reasoning is that women can't fight, but there has to be SOME kind of stereotype driving this. It makes no sense to say that there's no reason to keep women, specifically, from learning combat, but they're arbitrarily going to do it anyway.

      Then there's the fact that Yue is arranged to be married, the implication being that they couldn't have a female Chief ruling on her own.

      Finally, there is no such thing as innocuous sexism, because sexism enforces a dichotomy, every "positive stereotype" has a negative implication. The notion that women need to be protected suggests that they can't make decisions for themselves. The notion that they're more emotional suggests that they're more unstable. And so on.

      Should all the people in the avatar world acknowledge the fact that she traveled and risked her life when she could as well just stay home safe? If you think the answer is yes, why do you think everyone should acknowledge her sacrifices?

      What kind of dystopian craphole of a society wouldn't give recognition to someone who sacrificed for the common good?

      And he says she is good but still won't teach her, so i don't really think it have something to do with can or cannot fight as she proved herself in that.

      Then what are you suggesting the reason was?

      I don't understand what you meant here.

      Don't worry about it.

      Also how do you make all those quotes? I can only make one at the top of my post.

      <div class="quote">Text you want to quote.</div>

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    • @Neo: Well said on the sexism bit.

      @SaitamaBro: What Neo said was spot on about the sexism. Also, it was shown that men are physically capable of healing, so there's no reason why women are the only ones to do it. You also cannot say that women are "natural healers." While it is true that I've known more nurturing women in my lifetime than men, I have also known very nurturing men and very not nurturing women. It is placing a person's disposition and personality in a box based on gender without actually know said person. Which is sexist, and quite a hinderance on society, for both genders.

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    • Thanks. Actually, something that hadn't occurred to me is that by saying women can't learn combat, you're effectively removing the option of self-defense from half of the population. Even if we assume, somehow, that all of the people in the Northern Water Tribe are perfectly civilized, women would be sitting ducks during the invasion of the Fire Nation, or those barbarian skirmishes we know took place from time to time. Well, okay, barring other possible tactics like escape routes or hiding places.

      Though I'm certainly not suggesting that healing is "inferior," especially since the way the series portrayed it suggested that it took some advanced knowledge & skill. Actually, I believe it was implied that men couldn't learn healing.

      "Guys, I've got a great idea! Let's teach men how to wage war, but not how to heal wounds!"

      "There might be something in this cactus water, but I LOVE THAT IDEA!"

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    • It's saying that women are relegated to a certain role in society. It's gender discrimination. It's sexism.

      Women may not have a role in society but they don't make good soldiers for physical reasons. And while they gave more numbers they can also become a hindrance in combat.

      Then there's the fact that Yue is arranged to be married, the implication being that they couldn't have a female Chief ruling on her own.

      They say that or is it only implied? And her father probably had a arranged marriage when he was about her age, does that mean he wasn't fit to be chief on his own too? Arranged marriages are a normal custom in noble familys and while Han was a jerk some men may not have the same thoughts about him who are only thinking about getting laid and marrying the chief's daughter.

      Then what are you suggesting the reason was?

      His relashinshp with Katara's grandmother probably had a lot to do with it.

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    • And thanks for teaching me how to do that.

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    • Women may not have a role in society but they don't make good soldiers for physical reasons. And while they gave more numbers they can also become a hindrance in combat.

      Nope. Even the people against having women in combat concede that they have made valuable contributions to various armies throughout history. Besides, there are other benefits to learning self-defense than being part of the standing army. Historically, some societies taught women how to fight so that they could protect the home in the case of invasion, & of course there is self-defense against criminals.

      Female waterbenders can definitely fight, which has a real-world basis. Waterbending is based on tai chi, which as Katara notes isn't about overpowering your opponent, so it's often recommended to women interested in martial arts.

      They say that or is it only implied? And her father probably had a arranged marriage when he was about her age, does that mean he wasn't fit to be chief on his own too? Arranged marriages are a normal custom in noble familys and while Han was a jerk some men may not have the same thoughts about him who are only thinking about getting laid and marrying the chief's daughter.

      Now, wait, you can't just dismiss the parts that imply that the water tribe is sexist as coincidence, then throw out the pure speculation that Chief Arnook had an arranged marriage as a counter-example. Also, no matter how prejudiced a society gets, there are ALWAYS at least some people who don't buy into it.

      Are you...actually denying that this episode was about denouncing sexism?

      His relashinshp with Katara's grandmother probably had a lot to do with it.

      That doesn't really make sense. Pakku isn't the Chief, he doesn't have the authority to ban all women from learning waterbending. And what would be the motive even if it WAS his decision? Kanna wasn't a waterbender. If he just wanted to keep women away from him, there's no need to stop everyone else from teaching them.

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    • @Neo: No problem. And they showed (albeit briefly) a male healing on the first season of LoK. So they can heal, but I think in the NWT they considered it "women's work."

      @SaitamaBro: The problem with the soldiers thing is that with bending, you don't need to go head-to-head with physical combat. The bending allows a more even playing field, as they do not need to out-muscle the men.

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    • "Couldn't learn" as in the Northern Water Tribe didn't want them to.

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    • Now, wait, you can't just dismiss the parts that imply that the water tribe is sexist as coincidence, then throw out the pure speculation that Chief Arnook had an arranged marriage as a counter-example. Also, no matter how prejudiced a society gets, there are ALWAYS at least some people who don't buy into it.

      Are you...actually denying that this episode was about denouncing sexism?

      They never said there was a law that prohibited women from learning to fight, it's probably an old custom and people never tried to question it. Katara's probably the first woman(or girl) that wanted to learn waterbending and we don't see anyone opposing it aside from Pakku. He says women leran healing and men fighting but he don't say it's because women can't fight but because that is how things have always been and he doesn't want to change that, wich is probably why we don't see men healing in ATLA, because they never tried, never questioned the old customs.

      That doesn't really make sense. Pakku isn't the Chief, he doesn't have the authority to ban all women from learning waterbending. And what would be the motive even if it WAS his decision? Kanna wasn't a waterbender. If he just wanted to keep women away from him, there's no need to stop everyone else from teaching them.

      He never tried to marry another woman(correct me if i'm wrong) so he was really hurt by this incident and probably have some anger directed towards women in general. As i said, he is the only one show to be against Katara learning waterbending and i don't remember him trying to stop her from learning from anyone aside from learning the technique Aang learned from him, being a indirect teacher.

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    • I like Katara a lot. She's one of my faves. I do agree she has less than perfect moments and could be overly harsh and even mean but she was still a good person. Besides, even Aang had some jer moments {the desert episode mostly.} Tbh, I wonder why Aang and Katara get bashed a lot but almost no one accuses Toph or Sokka of doing something bad or acting rude, etc.

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    • Is this guy for real?

      Katara had every right to ask Pakku to teach her waterbending. Pakku was being pig-headed and refused to do so for no other reason than "that's not the way we do things here"; her fighting against him was the only way he'd wake up and see her skills

      The factory in that village was poisoning the water, leaving the people sick and driving away their goddess. Katara was trying to help them.

      As fo her mother, she was angry; we've all said things we didn't mean due to anger. And she only used the bloodbending once and, as previously mentioned, anger clouds your judgment.

      And really, comparing her to Ozai is just insulting

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    • SaitamaBro wrote:
      It's saying that women are relegated to a certain role in society. It's gender discrimination. It's sexism.
      Women may not have a role in society but they don't make good soldiers for physical reasons. And while they gave more numbers they can also become a hindrance in combat.


       

      In a world where most of the fighting is done with mystical elemental powers, and we've seen women like Katara, Toph, Azula, Kuvira, Korra, and Lin defeat entire crowds with said power, does this argument even have validity?

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    • Is this guy for real?

      Since he didn't answer he's probably just trolling.

      Katara had every right to ask Pakku to teach her waterbending. Pakku was being pig-headed and refused to do so for no other reason than "that's not the way we do things here"; her fighting against him was the only way he'd wake up and see her skills

      She does have that right the same way Pakku have the right to refuse. And showing him she can fight didn't change things as even after saying she's good he didn't want to teach her.

      In a world where most of the fighting is done with mystical elemental powers, and we've seen women like Katara, Toph, Azula, Kuvira, Korra, and Lin defeat entire crowds with said power, does this argument even have validity?

      Well, in a world women doesn't have periods that argument is really invalid.

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    • I consider Katara, dare I say it with how hated she is, a perfect character

      She strives for her rights (anyone going against that has no place in our current society, honestly). She's caring for her friends. She wants justice. 

      It may be because I recognize my own thoughts a lot in her... 


      Her "flaws" are often with good intentions, thus you can't really call them flaws. She doesn't want to get fooled twice by the same person (Jet, Zuko), yet she's held against that because you get to see Zuko's strive to be accepted and Katara is going against it. Without context, it would be bitchy, with context, it really isn't.


      She's bossy, but she only means the best for the group. Stealing a waterbending scroll, which they desperately needed at that point, is entirely different than continuing to scam money even though they already have enough. Key-point being that they already had enough. It was a capture (they were trying to HIDE (the avatar, water-tribe guy and beifong wanted girl scamming people in the city... what could go wrong?)) waiting to be done.  


      I really think it's held against her because she's the girl who is pretty, has no problems in her life, achieves what she strives for AND is nice... There's nothing to feel sympathy for. She's bound to hate, and her "flaws" are bound to get exaggerated.

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    • How did a troll this bad turn into a debate this heated?

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    • Well, in a world women doesn't have periods that argument is really invalid.

      I would imagine women in the Avatar World menstruate, but few stories mention it for the same reason urination & defecation tend to go unmentioned--it's not really interesting & it tends to be something people don't want to think about.

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    • Conzpirazy wrote:
      How did a troll this bad turn into a debate this heated?

      No kidding. What the hell are we doing still talking about this? Moving on now...

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    • I am a waterbender from the Northern Water tribe and I don't think that you are right! You just wait I am pretty sure you are from fire nation. I will infiltrate your property in fire nation and kill u by ambush.

      (Reaction of an extremist northern water tribe man)

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    • You do not need to post signatures in a forum, for obvious reasons.

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    • Actually I was just typing four tildes... As soon as I clicked reply I realised it would give away my signature. Sorry If it bothers you.

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    • It doesn't bother me, no, but it is a little distracting.

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    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote:
      It doesn't bother me, no, but it is a little distracting.

      I removed it. Are you fine now?

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    • I was fine before, it was just a little distracting as I only see signatures mostly on talk pages and in the War Room. Now, back on topic.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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