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  • I don't think Unalaq was in control after he prefefully merged his soul and/or body with Vaatu.

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    • Its debatable. I think Unalaq was "driven mad" by Vaatu and the thought of power.

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    • Yes, I think he was. Although he was driven by power, he seemed pretty much aware and in control when he fought korra, going in and out of his version of the AS

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    • When they merged it seem to me that some sort of gaseous cloud came out in the shape of Unalaq's body indicating that he had lost his soul so that made me think that Vaatu was always in control even when it seem like he was not in the "Anti-Avatar State"!

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    • Jey8000 wrote: When they merged it seem to me that some sort of gaseous cloud came out in the shape of Unalaq body indicating that he had lost his soul so that made me think that Vaatu was always in control even when it seem like he was not in the "Anti-Avatar State"!

      That is what I thought initially, especially when I saw his head move forcefully, and moved in a way that did not seem normal. That black gaseous cloud that came out his mouth looked forced, as if Vaatu was tagged in. After He pulls Raava out and engulfs her in the waterball, the gaseous black cloud thing goes back into Unalaq's mouth and Unalaq begins to smile.

      This pretty much implies that it was intentional and he was aware of it.

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    • unalaq was aware and in control: it's the same deal with him as with wan and raava. wan was in control the whole time. besides, they are supposedly "one" so i think a decision made by one of them is also made by the other.

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    • Intelligence4 wrote: unalaq was aware and in control: it's the same deal with him as with wan and raava. wan was in control the whole time. besides, they are supposedly "one" so i think a decision made by one of them is also made by the other.

      Agreed. At this point, their mind, body and spirit are one, same with Korra and Raava. Although, I don't know why Unavaatu did not use this technique earlier, or Vaatu when he fought Wan the first time around. One could argue that the Wan/Raava union caught Vaatu off guard. And as demonstrated by Unavaatu, it seems that this technique can only be used at close range, which would also explain why never used prior.

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    • exactly ^^ The question remains though, why didn't korraava do that trick first? that would have solved a lot of problems....

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    • I know right. Maybe it was an ability unique to Vaatu, like the vine technique his used to bind korra to the rock. Or perhaps it is an ability that he can use when Unalaq and Vaatu are one.

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    • The better question is, if Raava could talk to Korra I her mind this whole time, why didn't she warn her about the portals an Vaatu earlier!?

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    • that's one of the more glaring plot holes. they couldn't reveal raava and vaatu until beginnings, but apparently she's part of the avatar, and has been since atla. they should have just made it so that she couldn't talk to wan. or that she could only do it at certain times like near death or something, and explained why. as it is, an in-universe explaination is needed as to why she didn't talk to any of the avatars, or warned korra about HC. "oh, the biggest battle in the history of the world that's only rivaled by the other times it's happened? nah, i don't think i need to say anything." then again, i think the avatar, whoever it is, would have freaked out and gone mad if a voice randomly started talking in their head, and nobody else could hear it. actually, wait, they could just connect to their memories and figure out that everything is okay and normal and that would have solved a lot of problems. (i must really like that phrase lol).

      on the other hand, this whole raava thing shines some light on what yangchen said in answer to aang's question about the avatar being an all powerful spirit that never dies: the light avatar reincarnates so that raava can learn what it means to be human, but i think the dark avatar fits the "all powerful spirit" description fairly well. #continuity lol.

      so...thinking about that...would unalaq ever die and reincarnate then? i don't think so, now that i've thought about it.

      wow that was a lot longer than planned.

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    • lol, that's actually a pretty good answer to why unalaq could get big while waraava didn't: they probably could, but chose not to, because it's better that way. unavaatu, being dark, thought otherwise and therefore became "an all powerful spirit living at the top of a mountain who doesn't have much in common with ordinary people."

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    • Unalaq was in control, or possibly they were of 1 mind. Going to Republic City & destroying the statue of Aang in a fit of rage was a move very specific to Unalaq's character. Vaatu didn't even take notice of the Avatar's human half, he just kept calling her "Raava." It was always Unalaq who expressed envy & bitterness towards the Avatar. Vaatu just saw becoming the Dark Avatar as "evening the odds," he didn't really yearn to replace the Avatar. Also, as indicated by Wan, he had no particular interest in destroying any specific human. Wan was only targeted because he stood in the way of Vaatu's fight with Raava.

      Unalaq may have inherited Vaatu's desire to start 10,000 years of darkness, but on the other hand, Unalaq always seemed to be pretty on board with that to begin with.

      As for turning into a giant, I don't think it's something that can just be done idly, or else Unalaq probably would have done it from the get-go. Destroying the other Spirit seems to be a requirement, & there are probably others.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Unalaq was in control, or possibly they were of 1 mind. Going to Republic City & destroying the statue of Aang in a fit of rage was a move very specific to Unalaq's character. Vaatu didn't even take notice of the Avatar's human half, he just kept calling her "Raava." It was always Unalaq who expressed envy & bitterness towards the Avatar. Vaatu just saw becoming the Dark Avatar as "evening the odds," he didn't really yearn to replace the Avatar. Also, as indicated by Wan, he had no particular interest in destroying any specific human. Wan was only targeted because he stood in the way of Vaatu's fight with Raava.

      Unalaq may have inherited Vaatu's desire to start 10,000 years of darkness, but on the other hand, Unalaq always seemed to be pretty on board with that to begin with.

      As for turning into a giant, I don't think it's something that can just be done idly, or else Unalaq probably would have done it from the get-go. Destroying the other Spirit seems to be a requirement, & there are probably others.

      Yh I agree but I lean to them being of one mind. When they fused they became one. Unalaq even states "We are now One" Unalaq and Vaatu were of one mine. Its just that in that scene, the Unalaq side became apparent.I think it's a bit like fusion in dbz. Even though Gotenks was a whole new being entirely, he still had knowledge, powers and goten and trunks personality. And in different situations, Gotenks would display personality traits of either trunks or goten. it's the same with Unavaatu. The part of Unavaatu did those things due to the Unalaq in him.

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    • My problem with that is that this doesn't seem to be the case with Korra & Raava, or even Wan & Raava. So if their minds DO "fuse," it shouldn't be until they turn into a giant. At that point, there's not really much to go by, as most of the things that he says or does could be attributed to either of them.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: My problem with that is that this doesn't seem to be the case with Korra & Raava, or even Wan & Raava. So if their minds DO "fuse," it shouldn't be until they turn into a giant. At that point, there's not really much to go by, as most of the things that he says or does could be attributed to either of them. </div

      Yh I guess so. They never really full explained how the Raava and Wan/Korra fusin works.
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    • It seemed that Unalaq was control while fighting Korra. Once he turned into the big monster, I suspect that Vaatu was doing alot of the work. Vaatu does bring up that whole 'you can't Raava' when Korra was first looking for her. Unless Unalaq's voice just becomes Vaatu's while in stompy monster form?

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    • Would say it's 80% Unalaq, 20.?%20 Vaatu. It's unclear whether or not Raava can just start controlling Korra's body

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    • It never seemed that Raava was ever in control of the Avatar in LoK. The writers use that dual-voice with Korra/Raava when Korra is trying to seal Vaatu away again so maybe there's joint control?

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    • Kubernes wrote: It never seemed that Raava was ever in control of the Avatar in LoK. The writers use that dual-voice with Korra/Raava when Korra is trying to seal Vaatu away again so maybe there's joint control?

      I don't think there is joint control per say, but they're of one mind, which is why Korra can hear her in her head. Raava's spirit lies deep within Korra's soul. My only questions is why Raava doesn't talk to korra, or the other avatars more often.

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    • I think it was a one-shot sort of thing. I believe I stated somewhere (can't remember) that I think it should have been someone else's voice instead of Raava's. Maybe Wan's.

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    • yeah, i definitely think they are of one mind...it explains more than anything else. also, unalaq said he would be more aware and in complete alignment with his spiritual abilities unlike korra, so i think that explains a lot as well.

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    • No. I think he was a pawn the whole time. As knowledgeable as Unalaq was about spiritual matters, Vaatu is a spirit who is at least 20,000 years old. It's not even a contest.

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    • Except that's not really supported by anything in the canon. Being older doesn't necessarily mean anything. Raava changed a lot after meeting Wan.

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    • I think the reason Raava did talk to Korra was that she knew it was Vaatu she was fighting not just Unalaq and that Raava/Korra need it to win the Harmonic Convergence; she didn't need to talk to any other Avatar, because Wan was probably doing that for her to whoever was the 2nd Avatar similar to how Roku was Aang's guide during those times he appeared to him in all-things Avatar.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:
      I think the reason Raava did talk to Korra was that she knew it was Vaatu she was fighting not just Unalaq and that Raava/Korra need it to win the Harmonic Convergence; she didn't need to talk to any other Avatar, because Wan was probably doing that for her to whoever was the 2nd Avatar similar to how Roku was Aang's guide during those times he appeared to him in all-things Avatar.

      So the question is, what happens to her when she dosent talk to korra. Where is she. Does her essence lay dormant deep within korra's soul. Personally, i think that Raava acts sort of a Zanpaktou, from Bleach. She is the source of the Avatar's power. She dosent talk to the current Avatar unless they are really in trouble, I.G, Vaatu and harmonic convergence. She also gives motivational speeches. The current Avatar draws upon her power to fight. Now, tell me that dosent sound like the characteristics of a zanpaktou?

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    • Nope. Our knowledge of how Zanpakuto work outside of Ichigo is very sketchy, & very little of what we know about Ichigo's can be trusted because (A) he doesn't know "the right way" to communicate with one & (B) the constant retcons about how his Zanpakuto Spirit works. What we know really amounts to that the Zanpakuto has a spirit that is derived from the user's soul, but also a is also a separate individual, you can't treat them like tools, but you also can't be over-reliant on them, & they have very individualized personalities. About the only ways I'd say they are similar is that they both enable a "release state"* & that we don't know jack about why they do what they do.

      • =SPOOOOOOILEEEEEER...& come to think of it, we also now know that the Zanpakuto will basically "die" if broken in Bankai, but can be fixed by being recreated.
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    • Is that not Like the Avatar? Raava is one with Korra, but has her own personality. When an Avatar dies in the AS, Raava dies as well. The Avatar shouldn't be reliant on the Avatar State/Raava's power, so the same priciples aply. The only main difference is that the Avatar State dosent have two stages of 'power release' like the zanpaktou. The Zanpaktou have Shikai and a Bankai stage. Also, I am sure if Korra really wanted to, she could look deep within herself by meditating - she will find Raava, and will be able to communicate her, like a Zanpaktou and its master. After all, Raava is apart of Korra. It would be interesting if they did that in 'book 3' since Korra is cut of from her past lives. She may turn to Raava for advice on how to deal with the 'change' int the world. It would be cool if they made the conversation take place in Korra's psyche, like when she was in the spirit water in 'Beginnings part 1 and 2. Another difference is that I dont think Raava can turn herself and stop lending the Avatar her power, whereas in Bleach, Zanpaktous have been shown to have the capabilities to stop lending their master their power.

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    • Raava is only part of Korra because they fused. A Zanpakuto is actually born from the user's soul.

      They are similar in some ways, but then again, any 2 power ups can be compared on some level.

      A closer comparison, loathe as I am to admit it, is the 9 Tailed Fox from Naruto. It existed independently of Naruto, but is now a part of him, & has been changed over time by Naruto's personality. He can offer Naruto information from before his time, & of course, a state of greatly enhanced power. The main difference being that Naruto has like a bazillion transformations, whereas the Avatar only has 1.

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    • The Avatar state is the one transformation? Or were you refering to the blue, giant form?

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    • Kubernes wrote: The Avatar state is the one transformation? Or were you refering to the blue, giant form?

      No, just the Avatar State. The Avatar only has one power up stage, and that is the AS. Whereas in bleach, the first power up is shikai, and the second is Bankai

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    • There was an older series I'd have to look up again but it had something very similar to the 1 transformation.

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