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  • I've seen people say that Shyamalan should commit suicide, that he should be killed, that he should be raped, etc. This is not OK, nobody should have this stuff wished on them.

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    • I agree... the movie was a shame to ATLA but none the less he was actually a fan of ATLA and watched it with his family, he shouldnt be hated on. As many things that are wrong with the movie, atleast the fact that he tried to make one should earn some form of respect.

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    • I've said it before, i'll say it again. shymalan isn't the primary culprit. Hes just a scapegoat. Should he be held accountble for his actions? YES but not in the way angry fanboys say he should.

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    • Their making death threats twords him, guys.

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    • I hate to say it, but thats the internet for you. Whenever people don't like something, they often find someone specific to blame and rag on them. If it is really popular to hate on them, it often escalates to levels that people would never resort to in person. People think they're being bold and edgy when really they're just being juvenile.

      Not excusing the rediculous responses, just giving a reason.

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    • I don't think he should die, but he should never be allowed anywhere near a movie set. His films have pretty much gone to hell in recent years.

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    • The worst part is that if AE is a success (and from the looks of things its likely going to be) he's likely going to petition for a sequel to his adaptation of Last Airbender. thats just low, casting one of the most bankable actors of our time to mask his own failings as a director, just so he can blindside us with another bad movie.

      So, yeah. Thats likely the reason people want him to 'die' or 'never be allowed near a movie set again'. because if he continues we are likely going to get a horrible repeat of Shymalan's The Last Airbender. which only made money because it shared a name with a vastly superior product.

      Check this out if you want to see my personal reasons for disliking Shymalan, and why I'm afraid for the Airbender franchise if he makes a comeback.

      http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:RaidenRadio/AFTER_SHYAMALAN:_How_Will_%27After_Earths%27_Success_or_Failure_Affect_The_ATLA_Franchise%3F

      Brief excerpt:

      I'm disappointed with Shyamalan, I'm tired of his twists at the ending that all but ruin the rest of the film, I'm tired of the overall sense of darkness and moodiness in his films, and I'm especially tired of his consistent 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to criticism (constructive and Otherwise) of his style of directing. I don't want to be disappointed by one of his films again. If that means skipping out on a film with one of my favorite actors in it, so be it. I'm sick and Tired of M. Night Shymalans films, and the fact that I'm an ATLA fan, and he destroyed any hope of there ever being a decent live action ATLA adaptation only rubs salt in my wounds.

      -

      So I'm not asking you to protest Shymalan, or spew hate at him. All i'm asking is that on May 31st and the week after you spend your money on a movie OTHER than M. Night Shymalan's After Earth.

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    • Considering the universal panning The Last Airbender got and the fact that the child actors used in the movie are likely much older by now, I doubt he will venture there again. He may have an ego on him (getting a smash hit right at the beginning of his career didn't help), but I think he also knows what's profitable, and clearly Last Airbender wasn't.

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    • the film DID make money. . . True not Dark Knight rises or Avengers level profits, but it DID MAKE MONEY.

      and he did give himself a three year leway with the plot.

      and fans like Hasdi who support the film and call me an Asian Supremacist for hating the casting in the film.

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    • Well, if he's going to use the same actors, at least they wouldn't be terrible little child actors. Still, age would probably be an issue, especially with Aang.

      How is pointing out that the Avatar universe is essentially one big Far East, much in the same way that Middle Earth was one big Britain, and that the movie should reflect that especially with the "correctly pronounced names" Asian supremacist? Is pointing out that Sokka and Katara should be Inuit Native American supremacist?

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    • Take it up with Hasdi.

      Hasdi states that middle earth is a continent on an entire planet. One part of an entire planet, not encompassing the entire planet so casting all White British and American actors makes sense. Unlike ATLA which encompasses the entire planet, and supposedly should cast to reflect that, he says it is an 'alternate world' where Asian culture took over the planet instead of European culture, not a 'Planet of the Asians;.

      From Hasdi's blog:

      . .  .The Four Nations are ethnically a fusion of real-world cultures and racially mixed genetic-wise, so what is there to be authentic about? Check the Track Team interview, "the story takes place in an alternate world and the characters. Everyone is ethnic...Asian, but not from any specific Asian country. It was kind of like a non-descriptive ethnicity." Like a Rorschach inkblot test, everyone draws on their own experiences and prejudices in identifying the race of the characters. Gene Yang for instance thinks that Fire Nation is Japanese, just because Taiwan got whooped by Japan in the last century. At least, that is what I gather from his interviews. In the end, an actor of every race get to audition for every character. The races get mixed up... for a world with mixed-up cultures to begin with. There is nothing criminal or even remotely racist with "cultural cross-dressing".

      Well, I do have an issue with cultural cross dressing, because appropriating another culture disrespectfully is wrong. In the show it was done as respectfully as possible, in the movie not so much. when one appropriates another culture disrespectfully, it implies that that culture doesn't matter.

      Check my contributions page if you want more of my opinions.

      In my opinion the designs of the characters are NOT ambiguous. I saw all the characters as Asian, and Inuit i'm white, and apparently most of the American fanbase did because the film didn't make back it's budget domestically. Besides with the series being based on Asian culture it should have favored Asian actors. Its not racist because.

      1. Since Asians and Native Americans are closer to their culture than other people groups, they supposedly would be the best to represent it in a film adaptation. I'm sure there are certain exceptions, but for the most part Asians should be allowed to represent themselves onscreen.

      2. Casting an Asian/Native American/ or Inuit actor in a would not keep white actors from having a million other opportunities to star in other films. whites have a million opportunities for representation, the opposite however, keeps Asian actors from being represented, as actual human characters.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANO8kyWgXKs&list=UUrdBS7lq_VnA7B_NvGzsaOw&index=17

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7NdnDajLzo

      Not to mention the fact that the casting of Non-East Asian actors was done to avoid ticking off the Chinese investors, who are especially biased against Non-Chinese East Asian actors in heroic roles, and refuse to support a movie that either portrays China or Chinese culture in a negative light, or portrays Non-chinese East Asians in a positive light.The same goes for Non-Chinese East Asians towards the Chinese.

      which is why the Fire Nation was Cast Indian and Middle Eastern, and the culture altered  from predominantly Chinese,Thai, and WW2 Japanese, to Indian/Mongol/European inspired, and Aang and the Air Nomads were cast white/mixed. Because a film portraying a fictional equivalent of China genociding a fictional Tibet would be awkward to say the least. Not to mention be unmarketable to the communist Chinese investors.

      Since China only allows 20 american films to be shown in China a year, Hollywood has to make sure the film is not offensive to their chinese investors. or else in addition to losing their lavish funding, the film will not be shown in China, making it lose a lucrative foreign market that almost always turns a profit. More people in China went to see the Last Airbender movie than people in America, and American films almost always make a profit in China.

      If there is any group of people making it harder for Asians in American Cinema, its Asians in Asia.

      Shymalans just a puppet. a scapegoat, not the primary culprit, blame a biased and bigoted studio system that values profit over decent stories and diversity in film.

      check this out if you're interested, its a documentary discussing the issues.

      http://unmadeinchinamovie.com/#photo/0/

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    • Middle Earth was one continent of three originally in Arda, the other two being Valinor or the Undying Lands, and Numenor, which was added by the Valar to reward the humans who faught valiently and suffered near genocide during the War of Wrath. Numenor and the Undying Lands were both taken away from the Spheres of the World in the same even, that being after the Numenoreans tried to invade the Undying Lands after being corrupted by Sauron the Sorcerer. Numenor was destroyed and the Undying Lands were seperated from the rest of Arda, joined only by the Narrow Path, the link that the remaining Sylvan elves use to return to their rightful lands. After that event, the only continent left was MIddle Earth.

      The rest of Middle Earth: that is the parts not obliterated during the War of Wrath like Beleriand and Ulmo, are mostly inspired by parts of Britain, past and present, with the exception of the lands of the other fantasy races and the land of Harad, which is meant to evoke Arabia and Africa but is never visited in the series. You have the Shire, evoking the countryside of England and Wales; Gondor, a distinct parallel with medieval England, and Rohan, which is primarily meant to be Saxon England if they had horses. Its basically all Britain except for the more fantastic parts. Really, you'd think someone would research more of the lore before making that claim.

      The World of Avatar is meant to be inspired by the Far East. This really is indisputable, and I don't know how one could cry "eye of the beholder" when looking at the series. If people take offense, too bad for them: it is not their intellectual property. This Hasdi really has his views twisted around.

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    • I believe e was referring in the context of the live action films, not the novels or extended lore.

      What of my other criticisms? Specifically the casting, and the Cowtowing to Communist Chinese investors?

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    • As for actors and race here is my take that i saw someone say elsewhere.

      Based on looks, type of land geography, as well as kind of based on economy and culture.

      Fire Nation - Japanese

      Earth Kingdom - Chinese

      Water Tribe - alaskan native

      Airbenders - Tibetans or something similar.


      and honestly if they wanted to integrate white people you could easily get an italian or something for like a water tribe person. Im italian and people in my family look like the people from the cartoon of the water tribe haha. But the last airbender move was SO FAR OFF. they had indian people playing fire nation...... the majority if not all fire nation characters had light skin, very light. And then katara didnt have her hair loopies and her and sokka were pale, they should have been darker like an italian or an alaskan native. its almost insane, like what was he thinking??? he could have just casted the guy for sokka as zuko based on looks haha. it makes no sense.

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    • Here's the thing: I really don't get why Chinese investors would be so worked up about "showing China in a negative light" when it would not be China that would technically be shown. In the grand scheme of things, the Fire Nation is not China any more than the Earth Kingdom. They have Chinese elements, but they are not China any more than the Shire is Wales or the movie Fire Nation is India.

      Plus, even if the investors were unwilling to go with the project, I doubt the actors would be so picky. There are plenty of Asian actors that have worked well with western studios, and considering the material, many would jump at the chance to dig into these roles (imagine Chow Yun Fat as Zhao or Ozai). The fact that Shamylamylamy didn't even bother to check these avenues in fear of hurting the poor investors feelings really shows a cowardice unfitting of a director.

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    • Its not just the Chines investors it is the chinese government, who like I said, wouldn't have allowed the film to be released in China if it had portrayed an allegory for China in a negative light. So they cast the Fire Nation characters with Indian Actors to avoid it being equated with China.

      Its the same issue with the casting for "Memoirs of a Geisha'. the film takes place in Japan, and is based on a Novel which is based upon real events in Japan. But almost the entire cast was Chinese, not Japanese. White-American Audiences didn't notice, because to them 'Asian is Asian'. But Japanese Audiences did, and some weren't too happy with Chinese representing their culture.

      I personally enjoyed 'Geisha' regardless of who played the characters, because they looked Japanese. But would Audiences be able to suspend their disbelief that the characters are Japanese if they weren't East Asian?

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    • You know, I never took China to be the overly sensitive and easily offended type. Both the Earth Kingdom and Fire Nation have Chinese influences, so any allagory for China (which in and of itself is wierd since the actions of the Fire Nation are more in line with Imperial Japan) would really be balanced out.

      As an aside, they would be ticked if Chinese actors were cast as villians, but were AOK with them playing the most pitiful earthbenders ever and that one traitor guy at the Northern Air Temple?

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    • the one traitor guy was meant to be a descendant of an Air Nomad, (Tibet) not a Fire Nation (China). in short portraying a tibetan as a villain.

      And according to Racebending.com the Earthbender characters in the film were played by Japanese-American actors, some of them Internment camp survivors. Not Chinese.

      From one of hasdi's contributions:

      The changes from the source material were NECESSARY... to avoid sentiments that offends China, and Chinese people by extension. It does not matter if you think Zuko is "practically Bruce Lee with a Burn Scar "; as far as China is concerned, it is racist and hypocritical for an American show like ATLA to depict "Imperial China" in an unholy quest to colonize the world like the whites did, AND depict the Japanese-themed Kyoshi Warriors from Japan-inspired Kyoshi Island as the "good guys". The worst part is, you have a "Tibetan" Aang as the main and titular hero, a lone survivor in a genocide committed by Chinese-themed Fire Nation. Read up on the 1959 Tibetan uprising. Since that incident, the present Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso fled China to India, where most Tibetan followed and headquartered. To undermine Tibetan leadership, China actually OUTLAWED reincarnation of Dalai Lama.[1][2] How the F*** do you even do that? 

      Despite what other people been saying, the Chinese Earthbenders into the prison camp were NOT depicted as "weak". Yes, they "could have used more rocks" but the studios only had 3-4 months between the reshoots and the movie release plus the 3D conversion, so a lot of visual effects were dropped, including Katara waterbending at the waterfalls. Oh, and the backstabbing old man in the temple? He's backstabbing' Tibetan''' not Chinese. 

      This link to a blog below contradicts some of what he says. but there is still the fact that as long as China owns the majority of the US debt and until the US economy makes a comeback. We aren't getting a good live action ATLA film, as least as far as authentic casting goes.

      There is no justification for the effects being as bad as they were, I blame the small budget and irresponsible handing of it on the Investors, not Shymalan.

      http://www.racebending.com/v4/campaigns/airbender/depictions-of-gender-and-ethnicity-in-the-last-airbender/3/

      Besides, China doesn't see any person of Chinese blood born and raised outside of China as Chinese. To a slightly lesser extent the same goes for Japan, South Korea and Thailand.

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    • screw the whole race thing, its not casting japanese as bad guys if they are the fire nation. Based on looks its just picking whatever is most fitting and accurate with the cartoon. besides, not everyone is bad from the firenation, just the generals and royal family really.

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    • Pretty much. Heck, you could probably just hire on most of the cast from the rather westernized The Forbidden Kingdom and you would cover most of your casting bases (I would actually love to see Jackie Chan try to play Iroh).

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    • He'd make a much better King Bumi in my opinion.

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    • Hmmm... I could kind of see that, or maybe Chow Yun Fat. If he can do a crazy pirate king, he can do a crazy Omashu king.

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    • File:Fake iroh.jpg
      For god's sake, even this would honestly be better than who they casted for uncle iroh. The one they chose wasnt even close!!!
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    • Ah, bless the cosplayers. They remind me of what could have been.

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    • Since you are quoting from my post, please let me correct a few misconceptions by racebending.com (RBC) regarding the Earth Kingdom scenes. Personally, I think their BLIND HATE is so ridiculously consuming that they didn't even get the races right. http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i454/Hasdi/45.gif

      • Only the Earthbenders were imprisoned, of which the speaking roles were played by American actors Keong Sim (Korean), Isaac Jin Solstein (Korean) and Kevin Yamada (Japanese-Chinese mix) so you could say they are all genetically related to Chinese.
      • The Kyoshi Village is originally separate from the Imprisoned village but were combined in the theatrical cut, of which two speaking roles (presumably non-Earthbenders) were played by American actors Ted Oyama (Japanese-Korean) and Edmund Ikeda (Japanese). That made sense, since Kyoshi is a Japanese name.
      • In the original test-screened cut, the Earthbenders DID NOTHING but cheer after Aang, Sokka and Katara fight off the guards. Later, the Japanese-themed Kyoshi Warriors came down from the trees to beat the crap out of the Firebenders and soldiers to save Sokka and Katara (just like in the Jet episode). So, Chinese Earthbenders were saved by Team Avatar but Japanese Kyoshi Warriors saved Team Avatar instead? Is that not "racist", Mr. China? Remember this picture below that I kept posting? Did you see what is wrong with this picture?

      http://imageshack.us/a/img845/7879/movieharu.jpg


      Gee... the boy Keong Sim is holding does not look like Isaac, does he? He does not even look Chinese! Are you sure you have seen the movie?
      Film_-_earthbending_boy.png


      • In the movie, that boy was replaced with Isaac in the reshoots sometime in March-April 2010, 3 months before movie release. The reshoots was to show that the Chinese Earthbenders FOUGHT BACK, so the guards ran off because they cannot fight them all, NOT because Team Avatar were a bigger threat.
      • The Japanese Kyoshi Warriors were cut, maybe because their presence would 'distract' the Chinese Earthbenders from being the real BAD-ASSES. Of course, they would have been BAD-ASS MOTHER-FATHERS had rocks been shown flying about when the six Earthbenders were stomping around like "idiots" but 3 months to do all new visual effects plus the 3D conversion is kinda pushing it, no?

      Don't mind me. Please continue your discussion.

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    • Raiden, It's only Chinese and Thai culture... get the ww2 stuff out of here please.

      TO some extent some comments about Hasdi makes sense. I dislike the TLA movie, dislike the casting, dislike everything BUT STILL some of his contributions were of value here.

      AUTENTHIC material would be quite hard to use in a film, because of Chinese investors and other things that might cause controversy.

      Just imagine a bunch of guys with QIN-HAN/SUI/TANG/MING dynasty armor, going out attacking everyone they see, charged of burning 4 temples to the ground, which actually resembles buddhist/lamaist temples, their monks,etc [similar to some famous chairman knows in our real life yes?]  and calling everyone they see as 'barbarians' or 'savages', has a permanently hotheaded attitude, antagonizes every idea that has some empathy with the heroes [such as peace,non-agression,etc] etc etc.

      Not a good picture to show of a culture inspired by a RL nation correct?

      Zuko being 'bruce lee' with a burn scar?? interesting... if he was a RL person, I bet he would be that one.

      And paying attention, the entire FN war is a blatant reference to all wars of Chinese expansion taken from the Warring states period up to near-modern days. NO MATTER if you guys disagree with this or that, but that's a fact. proven with canon references.

      I wish I could not discuss about that anymore

      Hasdi is also right about the Taiwan stuff; 

      About the casting, I think Chow Yun Fat could be Ozai himself, or Admiral Zhao... nice!

      On the other side, I disliked the movie but in my opinion the cast for the earth kingdom characters was the best one.  

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    • Thankfully, the Earth Kingdom, widely acknowledged to be the "good guys" would be wearing somewhat similar armor. It isn't a Chinese inspired nation against other completely different cultures, it is two largely Chinese inspired powers butting heads with admittedly a different culture (semi-Inuit semi-Japanese) on the side getting tossed around with the ruins of a Shaolin/Tibetan culture in the background.

      I do think the whole "Chinese culture wiping out a Tibetan inspired culture" is not something a Chinese investor would want to get involved with, much less something a Chinese national would want rubbed in their face. All the same, these nations are China and Tibet as much as Gondor is Norman England and Rohan is Saxon England, so I still don't see the big deal. Many of the Fire Nation characters are villians, yes, but there are good/relatively good characters in it too, such as Zuko and Iroh. If every Fire Nation citizen were clearly identified as Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil, I could understand the sentiment, but they aren't. Like any country, there's good and bad people in their ranks.

      Idk, maybe I've just seen too many movies and shows where my own country is the villain to understand how people can get their briefs in a knot over a fictional nation that was inspired by an IRL culture being the source of many antagonists.

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    • I know that, their whole message about the FN was the one of 'nice country, messed up leadership' one. similarly on how people describes modern-day north korea, for an modern example but naturally this one can be degraded into a 'they're all bad, amagawd the villains!' kind of view, that will only change once they actually create another plot proving otherwise to some fans.

      I am not this kind of person, I defend the FN without any problem but still, you get my idea.

      About history: Yes, but from different time periods, Air Nomad. 

      Fire Nation would be 'classical' China, such as the Warring states up to the Tang-Song dynasty, while Earth Kingdom armor would be  'later' periods in China, from the Yuan [mongols] Dynasty onwards, which usually involved chinese elements with northern nomadic ones [the 'barbarians', such as mongol,khitan,liao,jurchen,manchu,etc].

      Anyways, my hate for TLA was their terrible portraying of the Fire Nation, but Hasdi made some points about putting chinese elements into a already blatantly chinese inspired nation would make things harder for the filmmakers.

      So, shyamalan is not the only one to be mad at, or to blame.  

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    • Oddly enough, I kind of liked the Fire Nation they tried to convey. It was interesting to see what another Eastern culture would look like in their shoes. It was done horribly, don't get me wrong, and it would undoubtably have looked much better and made a lot more sense had they gone with a solid Chinese style (I've seen the fan made screenshots with the correct style, and they look amazing), but it was interesting to see how things woud have looked if Bryke had taken a slightly more diverse take on some of the other cultures. It even fits pretty well: as a tropical nation, an Indian take would have a lot of sense.

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    • Could you please bring here a link or two? I'd like to see some of them, and see what the fans were thinking...

      The Indian take would be interesting if it was done correctly you know? but that would require more research on indian culture/history,such as armory,etc etc. 

      I prefer the FN as it actually is; a chinese-inspired nation. however, conveying it into another nation would be interesting, if done correctly.  

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    • Unfortunately, my sources seem to be wimping out on me at the moment. If I can retrieve the photoshoots, I'll bring the photos in tow.

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    • Lady Lostris
      Lady Lostris removed this reply because:
      All deleted images: per image policy, no uploads solely for messages
      21:45, May 3, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Found em.

      A large part of it is cosplay, some of it is taken from the movie, and some is ripped off from other stuff (the pyre in the upper right hand corner of the Fire Nation one is Khal Drogo's pyre from Game of Thrones)

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    • i believe fire nation is more like japanese than chinese... oh and speaking of Khal Drogo he would make a great Ozai

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    • Aw, my photo post got removed :(

      Anyways yea, the actor who played Khal Drogo would probably make a very credible Ozai. He may not be Asian, but he definitely has the charisma, and can rock a similar goatee.

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    • yeahh and i mean you dont have to be asian to portray an oriental character. he could easily pull of an oriental character

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    • OK. If you say so.

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    • Yea, you could probably make that pitch. The Dothraki are supposed to be a cross between Mongol and Sioux, and I think he pulls off the former very well. There's just a more exotic feel to the guy.

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    • No ParadoxGuitar, the FN culture is entirely Chinese, with some korean [baekje] and thai bits of culture into it aswell...

      I don't wanna keep that forward, unless we happen to get outside the thread AGAIN AND AGAIN,etc etc.

      BUT THEIR CULTURE IS CHINESE.

      AirNomad, unfortunately I can't see no link where you posted that =[


      Judging by that mix of cultures in the game of thrones, it seems the guy mentioned above could be from the water tribe.

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    • He may sound like he's from the Water Tribe, but trust me, he has Fire Nation written all over him in terms of charisma and fury. I'd link one of his speeches, but unfortunately the series is known for its graphic content and I'd rather not post links to it here.

      Just punch Khal Drogo into youtube and you'll get where I'm coming from.

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    • @Hasdi

      Sorry, i misread the racebending post. The Earthbenders camp was Similar to a Japanese Internment camp. The actors in it weren't japanese apologies. blame me for the misreading, not racebending.

      All speaking roles of East asian actors, were HORRID stereotypes.

      @ANC and Qin

      Hasdi is a troll please ignore him. His love for M. Night Shymalan is keeping him from seeing that, even on its own merits Last Airbender is a bad film.

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    • I meant based on looks the japanese would be best for fire nation, and chinese for earth kingdom

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    • No Paradox. if you have paid attention enough on the show itself, you will realize that everything on their culture is chinese, some parts belonging to other cultures [vietnam,thailand,korea,etc]. and basically nothing japanese. And basing on their looks they would be chinese [specially central pains/southern] and vietnamese/thai aswell. the more 'tan' they get, then they'd look like malay,philipino,cambodian,etc

      The fire nation is as japanese as the casting of TLA movie is Polish =) 

      Let's PLEASE stop those comparisons, specially on threads where they simply don't belong. Or else the discussions and my usually Great Text Wall often shows up and spoils the fun proving truth with facts. =)²


      Raiden. I don't know if he's trolling or not. at the same time some of his arguments are quite interesting, I don't know what to say...

      This whole thread is a battle of wits between TLA haters and TLA supporter(s) it seems.

      And I agree with you, some bad stereotyping there. And those were the best actors, let aside the worst ones!!


      Air Nomad, I saw some videos about him [khal~] and his speech. quite an interesting character. I still think he could well be a water tribe warrior, given his almost 'barbarian' looks and ways [the wt for the fire nation is a barbarian, savage-like nation remember?]

      and that cultural mix between native american and mongolian would do even more justice to that. [or the leader of your Mountain Air Nomads, remember? heheh...]

      To resemble the fire nation, I think Zhang fengyi [portrayed caocao in red cliff, qinshihuang in a series,etc], chow yun fat, samo hung and other famous actors could portray FN characters,if we're talking about a more 'accurate' cast for a movie.  

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    • I can see it, though I think the Khan of the Mountain will be a bit older than Khal Drogo and will have a more darkly flamboyant wardrobe, though every bit as fearsome.

      Seriously, how did they not find a role for Chow Yun Fat in Avatar? If the guy can steal the show for half a Pirates of the Carribean movie, he can raise the quality of an Avatar movie. Much more so than that one guy from the Daily Show.

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    • Yes!! I can definetly see that, Air Nomad. a bit between khal [attitude,fearsome person,etc] and a toughened-up shaolin martial master.

      And anyways, the whole mongolian twist would be different and interesting for the AN. [they are still nomads yes? trololol~] 

      About Chow... yes, that's quite a GOOD thing to ask. he would raise the quality of the whole movie [as better fighting scenes,etc would have been made to keep up with,etc] and attract good attention to the movie [like he did on pirates 3]. 

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    • They will be Nomads once again soon enough. They just need to rev up the forges and get all the troops and their mounts properly equipped. Plus, the Khan has to make sure he has enough storm motifs on his armor. Very important.

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    • Two pics of those actors I mentioned, they could've been on the movie LOL.

      YOU CANT GET MORE PHOENIX KING THAN THAT!! [chow yun fat as the Emperor, on curse of the golden flower]

      Admiral Zhao, ready to badass over the lands [zhang fengyi as Cao Cao, mighty warlord of the three kingdoms]


      About the nomads, some cool motifs would do fine, and naturally nice looking battle flags, and standards.

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    • Just paint Chow Yun Fat's armor red and black and give Zhang Fengyi sideburns and you're all set.

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    • Yes, many fans of ATLA were angry because the film sucked ass. Yes, many fans expressed their anger by wishing all manner of misfortune on the director. I'm guilty of it myself. One comment I made (which was edited) indicated that I would like to see M. Night Shyamalan get beaten up. None of you know me personally, and probably never will, but take my word for it that I'm not a violent or mentally unstable person. Obviously, I would never physically harm this man, nor would I condone violence against him by anyone else. My comment was an attempt at a bit of juvenile humor that was evidently a tad too offensive for someone else's delicate sensibilities.

      Having said that, I believe the anger felt by myself and other fans is completely justified. To me (and I suspect to others as well), this seemed like a film that was intentionally bad. Not just the acting, or the writing, or the dialogue - EVERYTHING. It was a mockery of its source material, and I can't help but believe that the people behind the scenes approached this film as a parody more than anything else. M. Night Shyamalan is not alone at fault - there's plenty of blame to go around. ATLA may have been just a cartoon, but it was innovative, original, and it had real big-screen potential. They didn't even TRY to make a decent film. It's insulting to the creative minds behind this show, and it's insulting to the fans who appreciate their work. So you'll have to excuse those of us who have a visceral reaction when we see what is an otherwise ingenious concept dragged through the filth and corrupted by Hollywood executives only interested in making money rather than creating something in which we can all take pride.

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    • @RaidenRadio Are your arguments so weak that you must resort to personal attacks? In any case, M.Night is not directing TLA2 next as I have indicated here, so you can stop your "humble" request of others to avoid After Earth just because you THINK its success MIGHT encourage Paramount to greenlit TLA sequels. Unless of course, your goal is to destroy M.Night out of BLIND HATE and ANGER, even if it means taking out the few movies this summer that feature minority actors in the leading roles.

      Last I checked, a bad performer does not equate a bad person.

      @ANC Emperor Qin and I had a wonderful discussion on what the movie FN was inspired by. As far as I can tell, it is not an Indian armor but a fusion of Roman, Greek, Japan and Mongol. Roman and Greek are incorporated because Jesse McCartney is white but Dev Patel replaced him just weeks before the shooting, so not enough time to design and fabricate new FN costumes. Japan and Mongol are included as these are two historical enemies of China. While Japanese and Mongolian armors are also influenced by Chinese armors, it is enough to satisfy China that movie FN is not Chinese. We are talking about a country that actually OUTLAWED the reincarnation of Dalai Lama just to undermine the Tibetan leadership. Tibet wants to be independent but China wants to preserve the union. The last time our Southern states wanted to be independent, we had a bloody civil war. Since the 1959 Tibetan uprising, the present Dalai Lama named Tenzin Gyatso fled China to India, where most Tibetan followed and headquartered. You expect an American studio to be "authentic" by having Chinese-themed Fire Nation to ethnically cleanse Tibetan-themed Air Nomad, leaving a lone survivor as the main and titular hero AND have his murdered father figure / teacher also named Gyatso? Are you f**king kidding me? Icon_wtf.gif

      http://imageshack.us/a/img827/1970/bryketla.png

      Anywho, the movie FN *is* "how things woud have looked if Bryke had taken a slightly more diverse take on some of the other cultures". As executive producers, Mike and Bryan had influence over the movie, specifically on the plotting (with M.Night), the costumes (with Judianna Makovsky) and the production set (with Philip Messina). This picture above is of Mike and Bryan with Judianna and Phillip on the set. Mike and Bryan didn't get away with Chinese-themed Fire Nation either in Book 1 of ATLA so changes were made, but sadly wasn't enough for Nick. Why else did you think despite all the awards and praises ATLA received, Nick stopped making ATLA action figures and other merchandise after the first season and considered to cancel the show? Nick only greenlit a third season because M.Night will only buy the movie rights for ATLA as a complete *trilogy*.

      Sure, Mike and Bryan would have cast them differently. Based on how TLoK characters are modeled from real-world people, Japanese / Whites for Fire Nation, Chinese for Earth Kingdom, and Inuit / Native Americans / Indians for the Water Tribes. So yeah, switching Dev Patel for Sohka and Jackson Rathbone for Zuko would work for them, but Dev is more bankable than Rathbone. We can't have Sohka overshadow Zuko, can we?

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    • @Hasdi

      Considering your delusional support of what almost every human being with an understanding of basic storytelling can tell you is a bad film. . . can you at least understand my frustration with you? I take personal attacks from you accusing me of "Asian Supremacist Complex' for wanting the leads of the live action film to be Asian/Inuit, I say you've earned at least one personal Critique.

      Speaking of Critique China needs to learn to take some friggin criticism, it may be based upon Chinese culture but its still an AMERICAN show. As such, they should keep their nose out of our affairs, The first amendment to the constitution supposedly protects creators from interference and compromise of vision, which sadly Nick and most studios these days have no respect for. Sadly, with the collapse of the US economy and greedy Holywood cowtowing to their interests it is very VERY unlikely. as ANC said, the ATLA universe is no more Asia than Middle Earth is Europe.

      If China is that offended, then cast Japanese/Korean/Thai actors as the generic background and villainous Fire Nation, and Chinese actors as all the good fire nation characters, and as Aang. As I've mentioned in my example with Gong li in Memoirs of a  Geisha, for better or worse to the vast majority of the American Audience, East Asian is East Asian, and can't be bothered to discern the dfference (unlike the more obviously not East Asian Fire Nation Characters in the film). That way China can cheer the Japanese/koreans being defeated by the strong Chinese characters, while American Audiences can be happy with a relatively authentic adaptation, and with Asian/Inuit/Native American actors in lead heroic Non Stereotypical roles.

      If you had actually bothered to read the blog, you would see that i do not hate M. Night Shymalan (anymore), but that I am personally not going to see AE because I'm sick and tired of his movies. Every movie he has made is essentially the same, a dark moody drama with some supernatural elements thrown in. If AE gets good reviews maybe I will go see it, but given his inherently pretentious self centered nature and attitude towards criticism (constructive and otherwise) I doubt it.

      'Preserve the Union?" Comparing the annexation of Tibet to the American civil war is horribly insensitive. For one, the Union didn't force the south to give up their religious beliefs and worship Abraham Lincoln as God like China made the Tibetans worship Mao, all they did was end slavery.

      My personal opinion on religion aside, if reincarnation did exist then it is doubtful one could even control when and where he/She would be reincarnated. For all we know the next Dali Lama could be reincarnated in America. Personally, I hope that does happen that way America will have to sever their ties with China or else condone a horrid act of physical and cultural genocide.

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    • Well, TLOK fire nation people looked like westernized chinese. such as the Shanghai gangsters or the Nationalist Army generals, while ATLA reteined the traditional, dynastic appearance.

      But back to the movie, China and US are is a sort of economic/political deadlock. each one depends on each other. if one goes down the another will. the US cant simply 'sever' relations with China, RaidenRadio.

      Unless we all want a global economic catastrophe. so interdependent relations are needed, and no warhawks on both sides.

      The laws protect creators and their thoughts but money speaks far louder than freedom. [welcome to capitalism! the system where you NEED to make money for the Greater Good] like Shang Yang [lord shang - qin kingdom] said himself, greed is one of the few things that actually 'moves' man into action.

      But anyways, I don't think this movie was done to please chinese audience, Hasdi. By the 'traditional' movie industry (you go to the cinema, but tickets, go watch,etc) you should know that VERY FEW hollywood movies premiere on China, and only those of medium to huge success [blockbusters] ones, rather than letting every movie in. this is done to help national movie industry to grow further on cinema and stuff.

      And few people would  actually want to download that by illegal means on the internet, as the show itself is not VERY popular in mainland China

      [I remember some Taiwan guys wanting to crack down upon atla and ban it because of its subtle anti-china messages, and look that Taiwan HATES the communist govt in the Mainland]. People there are more into serious blockbuster stuff like xmen, avatar [blue guys] or iron man 3 rather than alternative stuff,etc etc.

      Hasdi, the whole stuff about tibet invasion, you're right about one thing; A bunch of chinese guys who can control fire [a very suiting bending for china] invades a tibet-esque temple in mountain ranges (the himalaya?), leaves no one alive, except for one guy. (who prefers peace and talk to war,etc) whose deceased teacher/master is named Gyatso heh? not a good impression to leave.


      ABOUT ARMOR;

      Actually mongolians are light archer cavalry suited for raids and very fast strikes, so they dont usually wear heavy armor. if they wore, it would be made out of leather.

      But later they started to use Chinese Armor to give them better defense on future combats against heavy armored muslim and asian armies.

      I don't remember much japanese influences on the amror in the show, except for the kabuto-styled helmet worn by NOT-ZHAO. even so we're not sure if they were trying to make a kabuto or a tang-dynasty helmet... 


      Anyways, they tried to avoid chinese stuff at all, and I don't think this was to please chinese audience.

      But the whole problem with ATLA casting is that ATLA is sort of a low-fantasy setting.

      The only 'true' fantasy elements there is the bending arts itself [with real-life martial arts behind it]. and some of the entities there, but the rest, specially great part of food,clothing,armory,weapons,philosophy [from Azula's mandate of heaven and Legalist views to the EK scholar family = state confucian view] and several other stuff are very close to things we have/had in real life.

      When both blend you gotta be careful about what you do, or else it can be considered an offense to the nation which had culture close to 'that' nation back then yes??

      To please chinese audience maybe the Fire Nation would have very tough characters, the kind-of guys that can kill 200 guys unscathed and show some meat-grinding on siege of the north pole or other battles where the FN crushes its enemies. Sort of Zhang fei or Lu-Bu style characters of some sort.

      But in the end ATLA would have to transform itself into some kind of 'Hero' (2002 - a zhang yi mou movie), where the king of Qin is depicted as a heroic figure, even if the main character's objective is to kill him, rather than what ATLA was supposed to be, a fight where the fire lord is the villain, the avatar is the hero, and he needs to defeat him. 

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    • Thankfully, many of the Mountain/Storm Air Nomads can affort to use heavier armor due to their main mode of transport, the sky bison. The creature is strong enough to bear an armored warrior, and doesn't have to rely on traditional aerodynamics in order to keep flying. The non-benders, known as justicars, especially wear the toughest armor, as they are often the first on the ground and first on the front lines. There are those who prefer lighter armor, such as some of the inquisitors (higher ranking airbenders), lower ranking warriors/airbenders, and the infiltrators, those Nomads that specialize in reconaissance, flanking, and of course infiltration.

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    • To be clear, I believe the changes were done to please government officials of China, who in turn did what they believe is to be "good for the Chinese people". I also think the notion that you can outlaw reincarnation of Dalai Lama is completely ASININE, but the real objective is to have the government of China, not the people of Tibet, to choose the next successor for Dalai Lama when Tenzin Gyatso dies. Whether you agree with China or not, I do not think it is worth to have Nick bury the Airbender franchise forever just for the sake of "authenticity", especially when the show is really about appreciation of Chinese and other Asian cultures than to make any serious political statement. There is plenty of room in the Earth Kingdom for Chinese actors to play the "good guys" with more faithful Chinese-inspired armors, clothing, architecture, and stuff. You have to pick and choose your battles...

      "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. ... If a battle cannot be won, do not fight it."
      Sun Tzu in The Art of War

      FYI, in TLoK, the Fire Nation characters were modeled after Japanese and whites, e.g., Hiroshi Sato modeled after Theodore Roosevelt, Keita Gotō, and Yatarō Iwasaki, Asami Sato after Hollywood Golden Age actresses, Mako after Justin Bieber [1], xP Iroh II after a young Japanese soldier, and Lightning Bolt Zolt after an Italian (white) mobster. Since TLoK got away with Written Chinese, I am hopeful of TLA sequels using THAT instead of the made-up writing system in TLA. Still, nobody freaked when J. R. R. Tolkien and Peter Jackson used made-up Elvish languages in LOTR.

      Emperor Qin, you are correct that the government of China only allow 20 foreign movies to be shown in China, so American studios have to compete and bribe make concessions with the government officials just to secure some of that quotas. This was before the Obama administration worked a deal with China in 2012 to allow 14 additional movies if those are in IMAX or 3D. In 2010, Paramount used two of their precious quotas for Iron Man 2 and The Last Airbender, so I seriously doubt Paramount made changes in TLA just to F*** around with China.

      BTW, there is a movie Little Buddha from the same producer/director team for The Last Emperor about a Lama reincarnated as an American boy who grew up as an adult played by Keanu Reeves. Anyone think that is a little "racist"? Lixa.gif

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    • Suck on it, Hasdi

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    • I edited your comment so an admin does not take down the video. You should learn to embed images and videos better.

      Anyhow, I have seen this video. What do you want me to say? That we should hate and wrongfully defame a person because he made a lousy fan art? If a show like ATLA encourages kids to turn into hateful and bigoted individuals then MAYBE Nick should have scrapped this franchise long before M.Night even showed up. Eusa_snooty.gif

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    • No Hasdi, they were based upon such characters because the whole setting just doesnt fit anymore on China, or anything related to it.

      When it comes to angry tough powerful warriors such as Zhao, Mongke, Jeong Jeong, Ozai,etc then you can have Chinese influence and other tributaries [korea,etc] now Tlok is all about people like entrepreneurs, low class industrialists and other guys like this, so a meiji-japan inspiration would be very interesting and befitting of the timeframe. Actually, I'd do the same if I were on charge. 

      If the plot/setting goes back to badassery,armies,invasions,militarism,huge palaces,building an empire,etc etc. then we'll see a comeback of chinese appearances,names and attitude.

      If they're continuing with the westernization and technology junk, they'll continue doing so. its a matter of timeframe and influences really. 

      And what's with your 'whites and japanese' stuff? ARE YOU TROLLING ME, OR THE FANS?well... I think so!! (ta-daaaaa!)

      What about two toed ping?[the mobster] shaozu??[one pro-bender], other probending guys?? many people on red there?? they're all chinese looking to me. 

      Mako similar to justin bieber?? i don't think so... he actually resembles a chinese person dressing in British military uniform. he's just needing that tricorne hat actually.

      TLOK is a surely westernized world setting, but the chinese writing are still there actually. BESIDES, what's with the 'they got away with Written chinese' junk? that's quite an offense.

      The difference in TLOK is that the WRITTEN CHINESE on newspapers,etc are westernized [in lines and from the right to the left rather than in vertical columns and from the right to the left] but that's still written chinese and can be compared in 'form' with any current westernized chinese newspaper. 

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    • Bryan himself stated on his tumblr that Hiroshi Sato was modeled off our real-world historical white and Japanese figures. He also commented that Justin Bieber looked like Mako but I think he was just joking hence the "xP" smiley I placed there. Sorry if you didn't get that. TBH, I think Bryke reused the character design for Zuko in the movie prequel, who does not at all look like Dev Patel. Why waste a good design?

      Zuko_manga_tie-in.png

      Otherwise, I have to guess what real-world races are used as basis for other Fire Nation characters. Two Toed Ping looks Chinese but he could be inter-racial like Bolin. Jeong Jeong looks Chinese to me but Admiral Zhao was modeled off Jason Isaacs so after the first season, Bryke couldn't afford to pay to continue using his likeness; his face was not shown in season two and three, not even in the flashbacks IIRC. I am not sure how Johane Matte managed to still use his likeness in the Relics but Nick may have worked something out with Isaacs' agent.

      As for the Written Chinese, what I meant was the movie DID NOT get away with it but TLoK did. Almost everyone in our real-world speaks English because the last colonial empire was from England so having Chinese as the primary language in the Avatar world may suggest a result of China being the primary colonial force, which China may very well object to. Why else would Paramount take the hassle to hire linguists to come up with a made-up Chinese-inspired writing system and use it on props and throughout production sets? The same thing happened to Red Dawn movie; it was supposed to come out in 2010 just like TLA but MGM had to postpone it, and change Written Chinese to Korean, to change the "bad guys" from China to North Korea. If it were me, I would stick with Written Chinese for TLA. Anywho, if China did not object to TLoK using Written Chinese, then there may be a good chance they will NOT object to TLA sequels using it as well.

      But you know what? I can't keep defending myself against every accusation of being a troll. At this point, I don't give a crap. Whatever that makes people sleep better at night.

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    • Guys, come on. Even if you strongly disagree, there's definitely no need to call the other person a troll over it.

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    • Considering Hasdi all but called me an Asian supremacist on various occasions, and posted inappropriate pictures of Megan fox on my blogs,  the infamous "Go back to the shadow Motherf######" comment on his TV Priemiere Blog, and kept misconstruing my comments and reasons for hating the films casting to be as racist as possible (including my criticism of Shymalans AE judging from the trailers). I'd say troll is the LEAST offensive word that can describe him. Even when I've tried to be nice (especially on his blogs), he always seems to find a way to make it seem like we are the bad guys for not universally loving the film. Even if you avoid the casting it is still a bad movie.

      look for yourselves and these are just his comments on MY blogs!:

      AFTER SHYAMALAN: How Will 'After Earths' Success or Failure Affect The ATLA Franchise?

      Korra at Anime Matsuri Con!

      If 'Legend Of Korra' Was A Live Action Film. . . Part 1: Korra

      Read his comments and you be the judge.

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    • Inappropriate image of Megan Fox? That's just her head and shoulders. Your telling Hasdi to get off your blog was also inappropriate, as he's as entitled to his opinions as anyone else is. Users can say whatever they like on here as long as they are civil and refrain from personal attacks.

      By the way, all of those were from a while ago, so there's no need to keep bringing them back up and having a constant rerun of that ordeal.

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    • Anyways the Fire Nation is as Chinese as Sichuan [szechuan] food, the terracotta soldiers, the hanfu clothing and Qin shi Huang. 

      But yes Hasdi, you are correct. like I mentioned before, european and japanese influences in TLOK would be something obvious to do, since those both are far more suited to a setting like TLOK, rather than ATLA.

      I think that was more of a joke by Bryke, I don't think Mako actually resembles the guy at all, neither he has the attitude. But one can never know... 

      Two toed ping is chinese looking, but bolin not. actually I never saw Bolin as similar to chinese. Try general Fong for example, he is an earth kingdom character closer to look chinese. 

      ATLA influences and inspirations like I said would be China (the dynasties,other BA stuff) and probably Korea back on the good kingdom days and feudal japan, that stuff.


      Well, about that "China may object to..." hmph... I don't think so. if someone on the government still have some wits left in him, it is surely plotting the rise of a new empire.

      But like you said, there's the political correctness and stuff right? besides, the whole scrpit in the TLA movie was a made-up monstrosity which resembled nothing at all... actually I see no problem with chinese scrpit, as it's written in hong kong/singapore/taiwan also. And they could use SEAL SCRIPT too, which is a chiinese script not written (commonly, that is) in modern days China/Sinosphere.


      Quoting loyal friend, and warrior Jon Jeong: "shyamalan was angry so he couldn't make Book 2: Earth so he decided to run a film called AFTER Earth." LOL

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    • He edited the picture of Megan fox, which was A LOT more inappropriate than the one on it now.

      Bottom line, I simply cannot take Hasdi seriously, and I am sure many people on this wiki would agree with me that his faith in M. Night and the casting for the film and the never happening sequel is horribly misplaced.

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    • Well, even if he's in the minority, he's not the only one who thinks so. I didn't like the movie either, but I know there were plenty of others who did, even if they're not seen around as much.

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    • Hasdi, you blocked me from your Filmbender Wiki.

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    • Actually it would be possible to cast everyone with Caucasians. Example: My bro's dark enough to be a WT but I'm just as light as Zuko (admittedly with a few freckles and my hair is blonde). I don't see how the whole race thing is really that important.

      In my mind, the story was what ruined it. I tend to be mentally colorblind after maybe five-ten minutes of meeting someone, so I looked past the casting. But seriously, the story wasn't as good (which is understandable, they had to tell a six-seven hour minimum story in two) but the casting killed Sokka and Katara. He wasn't funny AT ALL in my opinion, and Katara's supposed to be like the prettiest girl Aang's ever seen, right?

      If that's the case, he needs to get out more

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    • Book 1 of ATLA is a mash-up of sorts, but the Fire Nation is definitely Chinese-themed while Kyoshi Island is Japanese-themed, which is why Mike and Bryan ran into trouble with China long before M.Night even bought the movie rights from Nick. In Book 2 of ATLA, the Chinese elements were emphasized for the Earth Kingdom (and downplayed in the Fire Nation) with Chinese-looking Earth Kingdom characters like General Fong, Long Feng, the Beifong family and others. Mike and Bryan then established that Ba Sing Se *IS* China, made it fairly obvious that Earth King Kuei (and his life) is modeled after Puyi, right down to the glasses. For those not familiar with Puyi, watch the movie The Last Emperor (Ha!). I mentioned the other changes in Book 2 of ATLA over here.

      Long_Feng_standing_beside_Earth_King.png

      Like I said, I would have stayed with Written Chinese for TLA. Mike and Bryan didn't construct a new language and scripts for ATLA (like how J. R. R. Tolkien constructed languages for LOTR) so they certainly did not ask for the movie to use a made-up script. M.Night cannot tell the difference between Kanji and Katakana to save his life so why would he care changing from one unintelligible writing system to another? The other TLA producers had no issues with Chinese script as well, so the decision to use a made-up script had to come from the studios and distributors, in "consultation" with their Chinese partners. It is overkill? Maybe, but it is not unprecedented, just like how the Klingon language was developed when Star Trek television series was first adapted into a movie. Icon_geek.gif

      Anyway, if MGM can digitally alter the dialogue and scripts in the Red Dawn movie from Chinese to North Korean, it is possible for Paramount to alter the made-up scripts in TLA back to Chinese scripts in an extended version of the film. Unless of course, some of you would rather have TLA keep the made-up scripts, just so that you still have something to bitch about. Eusa_snooty.gif I don't really care if none of you like the movie. It's the juvenile and hostile reactions that I find unacceptable. If you don't like the movie then take Bryke's advice: don't watch it and skip the sequels. There is no need to go around defaming the cast and crew and harassing the film fans. Also, don't come up with lame apologies for Mike and Bryan just to whitewash their involvement in producing the movie. It is these haters who "needs to get out more".

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    • Hasdi, you make a good point. I'm not going to cuss at you, or insult you, or question your intelligence (I'm pretty sure all of these have been done already). I don't like the movie and as such I'm not gonna watch it. If I had never seen ATLA in my life, the movie would be fine. I just feel like he changed too much, and that's it. I respect your opinion.

      As for the race thing, I don't see how it really matters. Even if Kuei is Puyi (which I recognized immediately) I don't care. ATLA takes elements from a lot of things. The movie did a decent job at political correctness.

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    • The casting ticks me off personally, because it implies that the majority of America is racist  Hollywood Assumes we aren't able to relate to films with Non-Whites in the lead. In short, it implies that I'm the racist.

      I, and a good majority of the fanbase, assumed Aang, Katara, and Company were East Asian/Inuit/Native American in the Show. So why not make them actually East Asian/Inuit/Native American in the live action film?

      Meh. . . in the end it doesn't matter. If Shymalan had made the casting authentic, the films All Asian/Inuit cast would likely be the one getting the blame for the films failure, not Shymalan's incompetence as a director or Paramount's executive meddling.

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    • Well, there were another visible influences used for The Earth King Kuei, such as emperor Tongzhi [appearance,etc]and a Ming dynasty emperor who was fond of collecting rare animals to his menagerie [such as Kuei's likeliness for  diverse animals in his palace menagerie, and his favorite bear, Bosco].

      THE QING EMPEROR TONGZHI, a picture of him. 

      About the Book 2, well book was going to be epic so what would be their inspiration? heheh...

      But they didnt downplayed any sort of chinese influence in the fire nation... the different was that book 3 featured less rich cities and stuff on the fire nation so the glory wasnt shown of full extent.

      AND we must remember that they (bryke) DID that awesome travel to china which made them more "creative" to stuffs at book2: earth.  

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    • @Emperor Qin: Ah... but you do understand the significance of establishing Ba Sing Se as China, with the Great Wall of Ba Sing Se also as the Great Wall of China, yes? By having the fall of Ba Sing Se similar to the fall of China in Second Sino-Japanese War with Puyi losing his throne and all, Mike and Bryan suggested that Fire Nation is not China but some other foreign nation disguised with Chinese aesthetics and used Japanese Kyoshi Warriors to infiltrate Ba Sing Se, you know, like how Germany in World War II "betrayed" China by switching their support to Japan, just to gain an ally in fighting the Soviet Union and Britain.

      Impersonating_Kyoshi_Warriors.png

      Do you think that allusion is enough to convince China and get them off Mike and Bryan's backs? Nick apparently didn't think so. We didn't have any new action figures or other merchandize for Book 2, but Nick aired Book 2 anyway from March 17, 2006 until December 1, 2006. Book 1 came out on DVD on September 19, 2006, which M.Night bought a few weeks later for his kids on Halloween in late October, 2006. The sale of the movie rights was made official a few months later on January, 2007. Book 3 came out in September 21, 2007, which is about six months late compared to Book 1 (February 21, 2005) and Book 2 (March 17, 2006). But it is better to be late than never, yes? It would suck to just have Book 3 (or 4) merely as comic books, no? Still think M.Night "destroyed" the franchise, or he did give it an "extension"?

      BTW, did anyone notice Miss Kwan's references to colonialism in Book 3, The Headband episode?

      Ms._Kwan_teaching.png

      How about references to industrialism and the Chernobyl disaster in The Painted Lady episode? Also, isn't beach volleyball a Western invention and summer beach parties also a Western phenomenon?

      Azula_relishes_victory.png

      I thought it was a nice touch that the Fire Nation used an airship just like how Germany use a zeppelin in combat during World War I...

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    • Mike and Bryan suggested that Fire Nation is not China but some other foreign nation disguised with Chinese aesthetics and used Japanese Kyoshi Warriors to infiltrate Ba Sing Se, you know, like how Germany in World War II "betrayed" China by switching their support to Japan, just to gain an ally in fighting the Soviet Union and Britain.

      How about references to industrialism and the Chernobyl disaster in The Painted Lady episode? Also, isn't beach volleyball a Western invention and summer beach parties also a Western phenomenon?

      I thought it was a nice touch that the Fire Nation used an airship just like how Germany use a zeppelin in combat during World War I...

      --

      True some of the culture in the Fire Nation was based upon American and European Culture. But for the most part the culture was inherently Asian. It was there, but the Asian culture and influence was at the forefront NOT the European/Indian influence.

      The Fire Nation Is an Archipeligo like Japan/Indonesia/Polynesia. NOT a continent like China/Europe.

      Fire Nation map








      Its people are fair skinned, have slanted eyes and dark hair. Wear wardrobe similar to that of various eras of Asian History (including but not limited to China).

      Zuko's family

      The Fire Nation family's wardrobe is based on Thai Theatrical costume, Mais outfit is based on a vietnamese Ao dai, the people wear white at a funeral, and wear Top-Knots like Japanese. If the fire nation was really meant to be an Allegory for Nazi Germany (or a European colonial power like England or Portugal), then the FN characters would be drawn blonde and more inherently and distinctively Caucasian looking. Bryke Clearly designed the Fire Nation with East Asia and Polynesia in mind, in character designs, ethnicity, and wardrobe even though they themselves were not Asian. Like Edward Elric and Winry were drawn with European features and wardrobe in mind despite being created by a Japanese woman in Fullmetal Alchemist.

      That is not to say there WASNT European or SouthEast Asian/ Indian influence in the Shows Fire NAtion, but it was in the BACKGROUND to the East Asian culture. Not the other way around like it was in the movie.

      Besides, as we've said, the world of ATLA is no More Asia than Middle Earth is Europe, or Earthsea is the Middle East. They are all meant to be authentic celebrations of the Cultures they are based upon. Not slack jawed fetishitations of said culture.

      Culture wise. If the fire Nation WAS intended to be an Allegory for a colonial power (like Spain, England, France, Portugal, Or Germany) then the Fire Nation would have fought with savate and Rapiers, not Kung Fu and Broadswords. The Fire Nation would be land locked or a peninsula of a larger continent, not an Archipeligo like Japan/Indonesia, the technology would be A LOT more European inspired than it was, they would have worn puffy white wigs, and the written language would be German,Spanish, Portugese or English not Chinese.

      But it is better to be late than never, yes? It would suck to just have Book 3 (or 4) merely as comic books, no? Still think M.Night "destroyed" the franchise, or he did give it an "extension"?

      The series had enough fans, behind it to keep the franchise alive even IF Nick cancelled it. (Like Joss Whedons FireFly). Personally, I would have preferred the series being cancelled, and a decent authentic live action adaptation. Than the series continuing, and a horrid live action adaptation coming out.

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    • Actually, China ddin't 'fell' on the second world war, but that's history discussion.

      AND Puyi lost his throne due to CHINESE government [nationalist Kuomintang party, and generalissimo Chiang Kai Shek, during the 20s ] the japanese didn't depose Pu-Yi. 

      Later on, the japanese convinced him [brainwashing?? who knows] to follow the japanese at the stablishment of a puppet state called manchukuo, where he was held as a PUPPET Emperor to the japanese authorities. he unfortunately had limited to none liberties, including the one of seeing what the japs were doing to his people [the northern chinese/manchurians].

      Besides, the Fire Nation isn't nothing "disguised" as you say. that's chinese culture,philosophy,aestethics,etc etc RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES!!!!

      If you want to compare that with the show, then Long feng and the Dai Li would be the japanese authorities, while Pu Yi the puppet emperor held there. BUT I don't think that's the case because the show was based upon ancient and COOL stuff, and I respect too much the dai li, and I think long feng is a 'cool' villain so I won't compare them with that LOW CLASS, UNCULTURED SAVAGES.


      Naturally Ms. Kwan would show that attitude, since she's a fire Nation teacher. the colonialist mindset can be compared to the Tianxia-Sinocentric Hua-Yi [chinese-barbarians] distinctions, that clearly defines everyone OUTSIDE the rule of the Emperor, the Empire's boundaries and the culture as 'barbarians'. So naturally there you go...

      Yes, those terrible accidents involving pollution, chemical and other bad stuff... the whole Linfan pollution deal, the Qiugang river [where fish also grew up deformed,etc] and Chernobyl could be examples [although I think chernobyl is quite an extreme case, since its up to present day a no-entrance zone for unprepared humans]

      And I do remember a thais/malay sport similar to beach volleyball, and it was created way before "western" influences, like you said. Anyways you need a tropical/beach kind of place, and "western" culture [if refering to european] isn't the perfect one for that. that's why great part of modern beach volleyball was developed in Brazil, I think.

      Germany? I don't think germany was the sole one, basically every nation with airship technology striked that way. 


      Raiden, yes, although we all know that the avatar world has that size, and the FN is probably GIGANTIC also. 

      But still everything you said was correct. just a small mistake, the topknot in the fire nation is Chinese, while the Earth Kingdom ones [the round bun-styled, like wudang monks] was a Mongolian version.

      Usually topknots in japan [not necessarily] involved tonsure of one's forehead [to avoid loose hairs,etc] and different-shaped topknots, like the sumo wrestler's chon-nage.

      Like you said, you are completely right, the Fire nation, just as other nations, is visibly chinese and overall asian, if their intention was to do a western-styled nation, the Earth Kingdom would look like the Fire nation, and the Fire nation would look like the URN. [or vice versa, the EK look like URN]. this would be an european/western 'touch', if that's Hasdi's wish.

      I truly enjoyed that part of 'then they'll be using rapiers, savate fighting or pirate-styled swashbuckling rather than chinese kungfu, Dao broadswords and Han dynasty 'charges' [when those spearman rush towards an enemy,etc]

      And don't forget corsets, powdered wigs and 'bouffant' sleeves and trousers. 


      Then they'd look like THIS

      Instead of THIS

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    • And I do remember a thais/malay sport similar to beach volleyball, and it was created way before "western" influences, like you said. Anyways you need a tropical/beach kind of place, and "western" culture [if refering to european] isn't the perfect one for that. that's why great part of modern beach volleyball was developed in Brazil, I think.



      The sport your thinking of is Sepak takraw (Sepak is a Malay word, takraw is a Thai word), which today is played all over the world, but it's pretty much a south asian sport. It is actually not where we get volleyball, the first versions of Sepak takraw were a display of skill, not a competition and it was/is played with a rattan ball. It wasn't until the 1940 that the version that used a net spread and formal rules were introduced.

      Volleyball is strait up American, William G. Morgan created it in 1895 when he blended basketball, baseball, tennis, and handball. Volleyball got its own unique ball design in 1900. Most accounts place Beach Volleyball's origin in Santa Monica, Cali. during the 20s.    

      (http://www.volleyball.org/history.html) (http://bvbinfo.com/history.asp)


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    • I don't like the movie, but the stuff about how Shyamalan should die is too far.

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    • Bottom line, the movie was easily one of the worst adaptations in every respect.

      What happened to M. Night? Is this really the same guy who directed Sixth Sense and Signs? Was he abducted by aliens and replaced with a proxy? Did Amon take his directing power away?

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    • Haha. Have you watched Nostalgia Critic?

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    • Foa lan wrote:
      Haha. Have you watched Nostalgia Critic?

      I saw when he did TLA. Hilarious

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    • Yep. The 'earthbending prison' is ridiculous :P

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    • I don't believe Shymilan should die, but he certainly deserves all the hate he's getting. He completely disregarded the ATLA fanbase and miscasted actors for their respective roles.

      That kid from Slumdog Millionaire was a great actor and all, but don't agree with him playing Zuko.

      Iroh's actor was a disgrace to Mako.

      Aang's actor looked like a baby flailing his limbs all over the place during fight scenes. I fail to see why he was chosen for such a role. Tae Kwon Do? Wouldn't it have been smarter to choose a kid that does tai chi or something? And could actually act? He didn't even look like Aang!

      Katara and Sokka were played by white actors who, while competent as actors, did not fit their characters.

      Princess Yue wasn't that bad, but the makeup was exagerated.

      Appa was frightening. I guess we found one of Sendak's 'Wild Things'.

      The bending was animated beautifully, everything except air and earth. 

      I heard that M. Night Shoomalan was very arrogant on set, and no one was allowed to judge his work. His word was final. There was no arguing against him. Even Bryke didn't have much of a say into how the film should be made. He watched a few episodes with his kids and he thinks he can direct a film?

      This should serve as a lesson to any producers out there, if they are working on a film, that they dare not approach Shlamanan lest they live to regret it.

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    • ^I agree with all of that, except for Zuko's actors.

      And, yeah, Katara's actress was a crybaby who was afraid to talk or fight... as opposed to the real Katara -_-

      Sokka's actor was serious -_- Way to ruin the funny appeal of Sokka -_-

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    • Simple. People like that are psychotic. 

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    • SpaceMedafighterX wrote:
      I don't believe Shymilan should die, but he certainly deserves all the hate he's getting. He completely disregarded the ATLA fanbase and miscasted actors for their respective roles.

      Spoken like a true hater. I have seen more hate and intolerance on this movie than a white supremacist rally for the KKK. Then again, we have role models like Bryan to thank for. Lixa.gif

      http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8981/fpnc.jpg
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    • @JuniperAlien I definitely agree that it's ridiculous to hate Shyamalan as a person, and want him dead. On the other hand, I do still hate the movie, but that's not a big deal, to the point where I hate the person who made it -_-

      @All In all honesty, people exaggerate when they talk. I doubt that anyone seriously wants Shyamaan dead. People exaggerate their ways of talking to make points. Many people don't like the movie, so they express it, but they exaggerate their points, sounding extremely violent about it. That said, I agree that it was a terrible movie and less accurate than the play, but I don't Shyamalan himself for it -_-

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    • Being violent about it won't change what has happened, the money invested/thrown in a ditch on its production and most importantly, won't generate another movie/spin-off/something else to calm down all these fans angry with movie TLA.

      To want him dead is quite a stupid thing, considering M. Night didn't creep into Bryke's house and suddenly stole the copyrights/production rights from their hands, and made the movie ALL by himself.

      There WAS some degree of official involvement, even if the creators now dislike the movie and deny heavy participation in its production. 

      As I said above, its not like the black vans just came in and kidnapped the creators of Avatar in a scene you'd probably see in a movie, then a shady interrogation room with several Paramount businessmen saying "hand us the copywright NOW <slams the metal table>" or something. 

      There is some exaggeration but then again the Internet can also be the kingdom of overreactions, and the way of expressing themselves/stating their points can also go to very radical, even if "seeing the guy dead" wasn't truly their utmost intention. 

      At last, it seems the TLA movie although for many people including myself, the Lord of Nine Provinces was bad both from the 'Avatar fandom' viewpoint and judging it as a movie itself, with several key flaws as bad writing/talking, unmatching plot with canon story, slow paced action and dialogues it didn't hampered at all the progress of Bryke's planned sequel at the time, Legend of Korra. (still ongoing)

      So as long as it doesn't compromise negatively the franchise for ever, I don't think we should focus maximum firepower and hatred on the movie and the guy who made it. 

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    • @Qin Haha, so true.

      I mean, honestly, the play really did do a better job than the movie, imo. The characters were far off and the plot completely butchered, with that Dragon Spirit advising Aang to go the North Pole, somthing that had already been on his mind -_-

      That said, I know what it's like to be of the opinion of the minority, since I am one of the few who prefers TLOK to A:TLAB. I get very much annoyed as the TLAB fans do when people put down Korra and her missions, comparing her to Aang and such. Thus, it's best to limit bashing of something when you're with friends who share your opinion. Otherwise, live and let live, I guess haha.

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    • @Hasdi Great poster. And I agree Byran is a jerk.

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    • RaidenRadio wrote:
      Bottom line, the movie was easily one of the worst adaptations in every respect.

      What happened to M. Night? Is this really the same guy who directed Sixth Sense and Signs? Was he abducted by aliens and replaced with a proxy? Did Amon take his directing power away?

      LMFAO THAT WAS REALLY GOOD XD Haha, some people do take the insulting of the movie too far, but I remember this video on YouTube that implied that Shyamalan was Amon and that the movie was an Equalist plot to tunr people against the Avatar XD

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    • Hasdi, I never said that I hate Shlyman, I'm just saying with the dissapointment he made all of us feel, the hate he was receiving from the fans was justified in a way, death threats aside.

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    • ^Yeah, there was no hate mentioned in that post. There is a huge difference between criticizing people and calling out their errors and flat out hating them -_- The hate comes in when poeple want him to die, get raped, etc. You clearly said that you thought that he deserved the hate for his movie, but that you did not hate to the point of wanting him dead. So, yes, yuo made your point very clear, and you are not a hater in this case, by any means.

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    • The movie was terrible, yes. But it does not mean we should inflict personal hate on Shyamulan. Besides, whilst compared to the show, the movie makes the show better.

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    • @Foa Yup, I completely concur with that!

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    • In all honesty, though, people on the Internet exaggerate and overly dramatize what they're trying to say. I mean, they're probably just trying to put down Shyamalan to look cool online or sound funny, but most of it is either trolling or exaggeration. The ones who mean their seriously violent thoughts verbatim... thsoe are the psychotic ones. But I doubt that the majority of the fanbase, despite its hyperboles over the Internet, literally wishes everything that it writes on the Internet.

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    • Well said.

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    • Haha thank you :)

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    • And thank you. :P
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    • SpaceMedafighterX wrote:
      Hasdi, I never said that I hate Shlyman, I'm just saying with the dissapointment he made all of us feel, the hate he was receiving from the fans was justified in a way, death threats aside.

      There is "hate", and then there is hate. For example, I "hate" Dr. Pepper because it tastes like crap and gives me an instant gag reflex. However, I don't disown my brother for loving it, much less call to shutdown the factory down the street. If that's how you "hate" the movie, I don't expect you to feel bad about it or even justify it. Even if M.Night made a terrible movie, that does not mean he is a terrible person or should treated as one. Don't watch the movie and its possible sequels and I will think no less of you.

      The other hate is when it compels you to harm the object of your hate, not limited to death threats and bodily harm but it can eventually lead to that level of violence. It is the urge to wrong him as he has "wronged" you or worse, e.g.,

      • Defaming him by spreading unsubstantiated claims of his "arrogant" misbehavior on set,
      • Using racial slurs or derogatory nick-names like "Shamaladingdong",
      • Calling fans of the movie as traitors or trolls, and
      • Urging boycott of After Earth and throwing Scientology / nepotism cheap-shots at it even though that movie actually has minority actors in the leading roles AND its success is unlikely to effect Paramount's decision in greenlighting the sequels to The Last Airbender.

      If you think THAT kind of hate is justified in any way as long as there are no death threats, you can take your self-righteous bigotry, and shove it up your ass.

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    • Mostly, it's better to just dislike the movie and not watch it instead of death threats.

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    • ^Yeah, exactly.

      And SpaceMediaFighterX made it clear that he did not like the movie. He himself said that the death threats and rape wishes were ridiculous, so, why this is even a debate, I don't understand.

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    • @Hasdi

      If they haven't greenlit the sequels yet, it's unlikely they ever will. That's not even counting the likelihood of a reboot.

      Heck, I'm not even asking for a reboot, the series is perfect the way it is. It doesn't need altering, it doesn't even need an adaptation! But if they are going to do one, the least they can do is make sure it is at least a decent representation of the franchise.

      As for me "hating" the film. I could use the same logic you use to condemn haters of the film to condemn people who support the film despite the fact that it is a terrible film in general.

      If you "like" the film, i'm not going to bug you and your fellow film fans over it. But when you

      • Call people like me an "Asian Supremacist" for disagreeing with the casting for the film.
      • post inappropriate pictures of Nicola Peltz on message walls that have nothing to do with the live action film, just because a few people disagree with you.
      • Consistently shove how many Facebook likes the film has in our faces consisitently.
      • Refuse to Acknowledge the fact that (with the advertising budget added in), the film was pretty much a flop despite making back it's budget thanks to the worldwide box office
      • Try to convince people who disagree with your opinion to support the film, trying to convince us that it will help the franchise, despite the fact that almost everyone who has watched enjoyed and loved the show thinks it is terrible, it in addition to people who have not watched the show.
      • Post inappropriate emoticons that compare people who do not like the film to idiots bumping against walls.
      • Boycotting websites like "Racebending.com" and authors like Gene Yang for disagreeing with the film on cultural grounds.
      • Condemn the creators themselves as supposed Hypocrites becuase they finally confirmed they don't believe the film was good, and do not conform exactly to your worldview.
      • Consistently refuse to Acknowledge the obvious differences between the mediums of live action film and animation to reenforce your opinion that the "film is good", despite the fact that there exists a mountain of facts against that opinion?

      --

      See how easily an argument can be twisted and altered to conform to and reenforce ones own worldview?

      Can you clearly see the problem many of us have with not just the film, but people who actively say they support the film, and keep calling on people like us to support the film despite our obvious distaste for it?

      I actually went to see AE, it was not that good a film. I typed up a blog to excorcize my feelings about the whole issue of the Last Airbender film possibly getting a sequel, not because I hate Shyamalan. I actually enjoyed a few of his films before Last Airbender.

      When people say they want to do such extreme action against Shyamalan, they are using what is called "Hyperbole".

      Hyperbole (/hˈpɜrbəl/ hy-PUR-bə-lee;[1]Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.[2]

      It is when someone uses an extreme example of what they would do or want to do to someone or something to express their opinion (for positive or negative reasons) in a way that would be instantly recognizable.

      When someone is skydiving and says, "I'm a little bird" they do not literally mean "they are a bird" they means they are "extremely happy" when they are Skydiving. So when someone says "I want to tear  down M. Night Shyamalan" they are not calling for violence against the man. They are really saying "I'm so disappointed I don't know how to express my feelings of disappointment".

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    • I don't think that there's any point in arguing about this movie anymore.

      The bottom line is that some people do like the movie, while the majority of the fandom does not like it. The majority hates it. And I mean the kind of hate that Hasdi referred to, using Dr. Pepper as an example. Many of the fans, to be funny through trolling on the Internet, exaggerate their hate and make it sound sick and angry, but, very few, if any, mean that legitimate kind of hate. The ones who really hate it to the point of wanting Shyamalan dead, etc... those people need to be checked off into an asylum -_-

      So, let's discuss our opinions about the movie with people of the same opinions, so that there's no more Internet war. I, for example, do not like the movie. Hasdi does. Am I going to sit on here and argue with Hasdi about the movie when I don't like it? No. Can I disagree with him and still be on civil terms with him? Absolutely. Am I going to wish a ridiculously inhumane fate on Shyamalan? No. Some people do it jokingly, but a modicum (if anyone) of the people actually means those hyperboles verbatim.

      That said, let's live and let live.

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    • Agreed. So let us all have a fun retelling of our least favourite scenes from the movie.

      No death threats or anything, just reviewing it and see where it can improve.

      I don't like the earthbender camp. (See? I said it as a fact. No threats or anything.)

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    • I can't stand the plot pacing and the Zuko actor's "acting" if you want to call it that.

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    • I agree with Tarrlok.

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    • I do too.

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    • Foa lan wrote:
      I don't like the earthbender camp. (See? I said it as a fact. No threats or anything.)

      Guess what? I didn't like it either. I detailed on how that scene came to be in my comment up there . The prison uprising did not feel like one. Besides the unfinished SFX of six earthbenders, the fights scenes were lacking. M.Night had an obsession with long takes, which can be detrimental to intense action sequences and complicate the visual effects work.

      The end result was underwhelming, so I don't blame Kisu for walking out of the screening after the earthbender camp. It's too bad as I think he would like the Aang vs Zuko fight scenes. Maybe one day we'll see a rework of the camp if we ever have an extended cut. Someday. Icon_yawn.gif

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    • Empressofmelnibone wrote:
      I can't stand the plot pacing and the Zuko actor's "acting" if you want to call it that.


      Ha, I thought that he was spot on XD

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    • Pheonixking3000 wrote:
      I agree with Tarrlok.


      Yay lol thanks, bro :D

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    • Might as well get involved in this thread:

      I don't think calling "Shamallama" a statement of bigotry is really appropriate. As I've said a few times, it's really ironic that someone with such a strong reaction against claims that the movie was racist responds by pretty much racism-baiting everything about his opposition. Quite frankly, I'm surprised & rather disappointed that the Wiki seems to tolerate this to such an extent. And that's coming from someone who advertises his site as having mostly no rules.

      As for the death threats, yes they are inappropriate, but all I can really tell you is, "Welcome to the internet." In fact, welcome to life, because this was going on in the days of snail mail too. Any public figure who does anything even remotely controversial ends up getting threats of violence, most of which are just basement dwellers trying to act tough because they're anonymous. It's impractical to try to prosecute all of these cases when most will inevitably turn out to be basically harmless, so all you can really do is hope that the people eventually mature & realize that they shouldn't be doing it.

      The Earthbending scene was silly, but it's actually far from the worst scene in the film. Personally, I think that dubious award goes to the finale. The wave scaring off the Fire Nation, even the troops already inside the walls, makes no sense, & there's no indication given why Ughng couldn't have done this before. The Fire Nation was actually doing quite well before this, so abandoning the attack makes no sense when you could just retreat & reorganize, or assassinate Ughng while he's doing his thing. Remember, in the series, Koizilla pretty handily destroys the fleet, INCLUDING the Fire Nation soldiers within the walls, & the Fire Nation is helpless against it.

      Which version makes more sense?

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    • I think the Blue Spirit scene used way to much slow motion.

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    • Hasdi, when I said Shamalamadiingdong, I was refering to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAGmj2mGW1k

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    • When Zuko was the Blue Spirit in the movie, what was all that hair?

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      I don't think calling "Shamallama" a statement of bigotry is really appropriate.

      Sure it is. Bryan may be a jerk and all, but I would not stand for anyone calling him "Konietzkaka" or something. Perhaps you heard of the Golden Rule, i.e., do unto M.Night as you would have others done to Bryan? For the same reason, you cannot fight racism by being even more racist. Lixa.gif

      The Earthbending scene was silly, but it's actually far from the worst scene in the film. Personally, I think that dubious award goes to the finale. The wave scaring off the Fire Nation, even the troops already inside the walls, makes no sense, & there's no indication given why Ughng couldn't have done this before.

      Nah. That finale sold the movie for me, as I commented on deviantART. In real life, that sheer amount of water can easily crush steel ships and turn soldiers to pulp. Fluid dynamics can be a bitch. The again, maybe the movie should have a dream sequence in Act II of Aang destroying the fleet out of revenge, so the audience can appreciate the ending a bit more. Not to worry, TLA producers Kennedy and Marshall had another movie in 2010 that recreates the Indonesian tsunami to give you some idea.

      Also, its "Ahng" not "Ughng". Eusa_snooty.gif

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    • I'm not being racist, I just find his name silly and hard to type out.

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    • Again, if act II hasn't been greenlit yet, its likely never happening.

      Koizilla destroys the Navy

      The thing is in the show, the Fire Nation ran away because it was obvious they were fighting a supernatural being that they could not hope to defeat no matter how hard they tried. The Koizilla sliced ships in two, and it was heavily implied that he froze people solid and drowned numerous amounts of people. The Psychological impact of the ocean itself turning into Cthulu would make any soldier turn tail and run.

      Nevermind that in the show it was the Avatar Spirit and The Ocean Spirit that overrode Aangs better judgement, Aang himself is not accountable for the deaths of all the FN soldiers in the show. In the movie though, he says he wants to defeat the FN without killing them. But its obvious that in the film, he outright killed hundreds of people out of his own intent. Which makes film Aang a hypocrite.

      It doesn't matter how the names were pronounced in the movie because that is not how they are pronounced in the show. You don't call Bilbo Baggins, Buh-EEL-BOO, even though the pronounciation is not authentic to the culture the film was based upon, be that Gaelic, Norse, Celtic, and Germanic cultures.

      Also Movie=/= Real Life Physics.

      Also about that Battling Racism with "More Racism": Check This Out

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    • "Sure it is. Bryan may be a jerk and all, but I would not stand for anyone calling him "Konietzkaka" or something."

      That doesn't even make sense. And you're making personal attacks by calling him a jerk. Your whole argument against him is personal attacks. But you're going to sit there & claim the moral high ground, & that everyone else is a "hater." Which is...also a personal attack. Actually, personal attacks are pretty much a cornerstone of your entire case at every level.

      "For the same reason, you cannot fight racism by being even more racist."

      It's not racism, that's why I'm saying your claims are inappropriate. Especially from someone who cries foul when we "assume" that the movie was being racist.

      "In real life, that sheer amount of water can easily crush steel ships and turn soldiers to pulp."

      If it moves. He just had it sit there. As I said, it was perfectly feasible to regroup & attack after the Uhhvatar left, or have the soldiers who were already INSIDE OF THE WALL & WINNING assassinate Ughng. And if you're going to tell me that the Fire Nation was losing, then WHY WAS THE WAVE EVEN NECESSARY?

      "Also, its "Ahng" not "Ughng"."

      If Shamallama can pronounce things however he wants, then so can I.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Hasdi Bravo wrote:
      Sure it is. Bryan may be a jerk and all, but I would not stand for anyone calling him "Konietzkaka" or something.
      That doesn't even make sense. And you're making personal attacks by calling him a jerk. Your whole argument against him is personal attacks. 

      Uhm, no. A personal attack is when you reject an argument based on irrelevant facts of the person making that argument. M.Night cast whites for Sokka and Korra (with Nicola and Rathbone) but non-whites for Zuko (with Dev). As turns out, Bryan did the same (with Mae, DeSena and Dante). At least Noah looks mixed Asian due to his American Indian heritage while Zach is a bonafide white American boy. But Bryan thinks he is sooo much better than M.Night because he can easily "whitewash" his characters with Photoshop. I can say Bryan being a jerk or a hyprocrite, just you can with M.Night being stubborn or arrogant. But I can understand that a God like Bryan beyond reproach and criticism but a "Devil" like M.Night is fair game for double standards. Eusa_snooty.gif

      If Shamallama can pronounce things however he wants, then so can I.

      You can pronounce Aang however you like. I am just pointing out in the actual movie, "Ahng" is used as the proper Chinese pronunciation for Áng (昂). "Aeng" in the show is an acceptable American pronunciation. If you said "Ughng", "Ung" and "Ong", you would be repeating it wrong.

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    • "Uhm, no. A personal attack is when you reject an argument based on irrelevant facts of the person making that argument."

      I know what a personal attack is, thank you. Now explain to me how implying that I'm a racist is either supported or relevant.

      "I can say Bryan being a jerk or a hyprocrite, just you can with M.Night being stubborn or arrogant."

      "Jerk" basically can't be relevant in any argument ever. In the rare cases where I say anything negative about M. Night, it's usually not an insult, but a statement about his directing. It is entirely relevant that he is stubborn & arrogant, because that's what's keeping him from improving from his criticism.

      Calling Bryan a hypocrite would be fine, if he were actually being hypocritical. You base this ridiculous "superiority complex" thing over ONE statement from Bryan that M. Night "misrepresented his work," which frankly did happen, & he's well within his rights to be mad about. You also consistently ignore that the actual characters are the ones designed to be Asian, which they accomplish because, survey says--he hired Asians to help design them. Which M. Night did not.

      "But I can understand that a God like Bryan beyond reproach and criticism but a "Devil" like M.Night is fair game for double standards. Eusa_snooty.gif"

      That's not what anyone is saying. In fact, many of the Antikorras have criticized Bryan (& Mike), saying that they aren't good writers without the rest of their team. I've never really called this out, because it is a reasonable inference, & may or may not be true.

      "You can pronounce Aang however you like."

      You're bloody right I can. However, I'm only slightly exaggerating the sound.

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    • I liked Bryan and Mike' version of Avatar better.

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    • SpaceMedafighterX wrote:
      I liked Bryan and Mike' version of Avatar better.

      Me, too.

      Even if "Ahng" is correct... what about "Soaka" and "Earoh"? Maybe "Earoh", but Sokka has to k's in it, so wouldn't it be a short "o" sound?

      Also, I didn't like the extreme personality changes. I mean, Sokka was serious (-_-), Katara was a timid crybaby (what happened to the girl who stood her ground and kicked people's asses whe they messed with her team? And who gave that hope speech to Haru's village?), Iroh was too serious, skinny, and not enough tea loving... and Aang was just so depressed and a wreck... we're talking about the same kid whose first thing to say when he got woken out of the iceberg was if Katara wanted to go penguin sledding with him XD

      But I'm cool with anyone who does like the movie.

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    • Yeah. The characters were terribly portrayed. Still doesn't make it ok to want to kill Shlamanyam.

      -_-

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    • Yeah... there are four options for people who say such things: they're speaking in hyperbole, trolling, trying to be funny, or are flat out psychotic. The first three cover the majority by a landslide, though XD

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      I know what a personal attack is, thank you. Now explain to me how implying that I'm a racist is either supported or relevant.

      I am confused here. Icon_eh.gif I presumed good faith when you paraphased my argument as

      • I don't think calling "Shamallama" a statement of bigotry is really appropriate.

      ...but it is more accurate to restate it as...

      • I don't think calling "Shamaladingdong" a statement of hate is really appropriate.

      ...unless of course, you are intentionally mischaracterizing my position. Otherwise, there are practical differences with hate, racism, bigotry and hostility. While there are strong connotations among those words, one does not imply another. Although, I can understand that few can appreciate them as the differences with copyright, patent and trademark.

      I stand by my position that "Shamaladingdong" is as derogatory as "nigger" and "faggot" (but not "black" and "gay"). However, if you must know, you are being juvenile if you insist on using "Shamallama". That is not meant as a personal attack against you, unless you really ARE under the age of 13, in which case you shouldn't be arguing with me on this Wiki in the first place.

      TarrlokUltimateWaterbender wrote:
      Even if "Ahng" is correct... what about "Soaka" and "Earoh"? Maybe "Earoh", but Sokka has to k's in it, so wouldn't it be a short "o" sound?

      See Film:Name pronunciation. Sohka is the proper Japanese pronunciation of Sokka. If you use American phonetic spelling, it would be Sock-kah like the show. Iroh is a made-up name but the actor playing him is from Iran. See, middle-Eastern folks tend to get annoyed if you say EYE-RAHN or EYE-RACK instead of EE-RAHN or EE-ROCK, so the EE-ROH change is more of cultural sensitivity issue than to "correct" pronunciation of EYE-ROH in the show.

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      I'm only slightly exaggerating the sound.

      I am nitpicking here but you are exaggerating the wrong sound. It would be like saying "Ing" just because Sab Shimono who voiced Gyatso said "Ehng" instead of "Aeng". Perhaps if Bryan hired a white American voice actor, Aang's name would be pronounced correctly by his own mentor and father figure. Lixa.gif

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    • TarrlokUltimateWaterbender wrote:
      Even if "Ahng" is correct... what about "Soaka" and "Earoh"? Maybe "Earoh", but Sokka has to k's in it, so wouldn't it be a short "o" sound?
      See Film:Name pronunciation. Sohka is the proper Japanese pronunciation of Sokka. If you use American phonetic spelling, it would be Sock-kah like the show. Iroh is a made-up name but the actor playing him is from Iran. See, middle-Eastern folks tend to get annoyed if you say EYE-RAHN or EYE-RACK instead of EE-RAHN or EE-ROCK, the so the EE-ROH change is more of cultural sensitivity issue than to "correct" pronunciation of EYE-ROH in the show.

      Very well. Eh, don't agree with or respect the "Earoh", then. That, they should've stuck with. It's like naming your child something and people trying to pronounce it a different way because it feels better to them to pronounce in such a way.

      I still don't like the portrayal of the characters (except for Zuko), at all, though.

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    • But Sokka's a Japanese name? I thought that waterbenders' names were Native American?

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    • TarrlokUltimateWaterbender wrote:
      But Sokka's a Japanese name? I thought that waterbenders' names were Native American?

      Not really. Pakku (パック), Hakoda (箱田), Bato (バトー) and Hahn (ハン) were all Japanese names (and already pronounced properly). The closest to an Inuit name is Hama. It is only in The Legend of Korra that they start using proper Inuit and Alaskan names for the Water Tribe members like Tonraq, Senna, Unalaq, Tarrlok, Noatak, etc., etc..

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    • "While there are strong connotations among those words, one does not imply another....I stand by my position that "Shamaladingdong" is as derogatory as "nigger" and "faggot" (but not "black" and "gay"). However, if you must know, you are being juvenile if you insist on using "Shamallama". That is not meant as a personal attack against you"

      Okay, playing the "In what specific way am I being offensive" game with you is becoming exhausting, so just read the last 3 panels of this comic for my response:

      http://xkcd.com/169/

      "See, middle-Eastern folks tend to get annoyed if you say EYE-RAHN or EYE-RACK instead of EE-RAHN or EE-ROCK, so the EE-ROH change is more of cultural sensitivity issue than to "correct" pronunciation of EYE-ROH in the show."

      That doesn't make any sense at all, just because "Ir" is pronounced a certain way in a certain language, that doesn't make it "insensitive" to pronounce it differently in other languages.

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    • @Hasdi Ahhh, alright. Thanks for that, dude! Yeah, I knew that the second show were definitey Native American, because I remember Yakone's name meaning something like "blood on the snow" or something in the Inuit language, I believe. But alright, makes sense now.

      That said, I can understand the name changing (except for Iroh), but completely disagree with the characters' personalities. But I get your reason for liking the movie, so it's cool.

      One thing I do agree on. The word "Avatar" really is pronounced "uhvatar", so I understand the movie there.

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    • It's like naming your child something and people trying to pronounce it a different way because it feels better to them to pronounce in such a way.

      I know EXACTLY how that feels. But you know, you get tired of correcting American speakers on the correct pronunciation of your own name and others after a while. It is a wonderful gesture if they get it right the first time but I certainly wouldn't give them the finger if they don't. Although, if someone phones me and mispronounced my name, it is most likely a telemarketer not someone I know, so I can immediately hang up on them. Icon_lolno.gif

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    • @Hasdi Hahahaha, yeah, man, I agree completely :D I hate when people change my name pronunciation, too. I didn't like the character personality changes, plot changes, and "Earoh", but I can understand the other name changes haha.

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    • Hasdi, I have nothing against Indians. I love Bollywood and curry and the general Indian culture. I don't even hate Shylamalan, but I do not like his work on Avatar and After Earth (but After Earth's fail was definitely Jayden Smith).

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    • If the name pronounciation would really offend that many people (unlikely), then have it pronounced the "Real" way in the Foreign Dub, but keep it the way it is in Tv Show in the american cut.

      Again Hasdi, Voice acting/Animation is an entirely different animal from acting for a camera. Why do you continuously refuse to acknowledge this difference?

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    • Zoboomafoo is offended that Momo was voiced by a human and not by a lemur. Bryke should fire Dee Bradley Baker for his discrimination and his frequent usage of stereotypes against lemurs despite his superb voice acting.

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    • The fact is the creators named the characters and intended their names to be pronounced the way they are pronounced in the show.

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    • Sure, it would have been nice to have the names pronounced the same way as the show, but its really not a big deal... I don't know why people get stuck on it, even before the movie some fans used different pronounciations. The movie wasn't made for the fans, so they naturally used the more common pronounciation of the names. btw, my first name has a few pronounciations, most people use the more popular one (or they use my sister's name -_-) and my last name looks like a very common one, but it's pronounced differently. If someone uses the common version, I usually don't realize they're talking to me

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    • Winterfirstsnow* wrote:
      Sure, it would have been nice to have the names pronounced the same way as the show, but its really not a big deal... I don't know why people get stuck on it, even before the movie some fans used different pronounciations. The movie wasn't made for the fans, so they naturally used the more common pronounciation of the names. btw, my first name has a few pronounciations, most people use the more popular one (or they use my sister's name -_-) and my last name looks like a very common one, but it's pronounced differently. If someone uses the common version, I usually don't realize they're talking to me

      I honestly can't believe that people are arguing on how things should be pronounced etc. I guess people have too much time on their hands...

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      .... thing over ONE statement from Bryan that M. Night "misrepresented his work," which frankly did happen, & he's well within his rights to be mad about. You also consistently ignore that the actual characters are the ones designed to be Asian, which they accomplish because, survey says--he hired Asians to help design them. Which M. Night did not.'

      em, why would M. Night need to hire Asians? Why is a reinterpretation of a story a "misrepresentation"? After all, ATLA is also called the Legend of Aang, and don't legends change over time? Of course, some versions are better than others, but you'll find fans of all different versions of Robin Hood and Batman, even Greek mythology. Its only a movie inspired by Mike and Bryan's work (if I remember correctly, they took some inspiration from another tv show) so there really is no reason M. Night had to stick to their version.

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    • The names were relatively okay for me, after I found out the reasons on here... but the twisting around of the story, I had a problem with. For that, I still enjoy the play more than the movie -_-

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    • Definately.

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    • There shouldn't have been an A:TLA film to begin with, unless it were to be animated.

      Animated movies are awesome, especially the ones done at Disney or at certain Japanese studios.

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    • Shyamulan isn't a terrible director, and one reason the movie is so bad is because I believe he could do better.

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    • @SpaceMediafighterX I would have to agree. Ha, I also remember Dragonball Evolution -_- Quite something -_______-

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    • While the movie was bad in our opinions, there actually were people who did like the movie. My dad liked the movie (he was the one that took me to see it). On the way home I lectured him on all the things they did wrong. If your gonna like the movie despite it being terrible, your probably gonna be an even bigger Avatar fan. But once you get onto the forums to talk about the movie you loved and a new series your about to start watching, your bombarded by comments like "What? You actually liked that awful movie? How can you be that stupid?", it makes you not want to be a part of the fandom. You might not have liked the movie, but some did and we should respect and welcome them to the fandom.

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    • @Avatarlonathan Absolutely, postiively, completely agreed with you. Well said, man!

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    • Just like how I prefer TLOK to A:TLAB, but most fans don't!

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    • Exactly. LOK hate almost makes me want to leave the fandom (or at least leave the forums and solely write fanon).

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    • I agree. I really hate when people compare Korra to Aang and go like "oh, she didn't stop the Fire Nation or its war"... gee, maybe because she was not born into one -_- Aang ain't fighting Vaatu, is he? And, for Korra's first season, Aang fought a villlain similar to that (Yakone) and almost got killed until he used Avatar State and got all of the previous AVatars' waterbending combined to help overpower Yakone's.

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    • Or how people compare the first book of LOK to all of ATLA by saying there's not enough character development? I mean aren't the characters supposed to become goody two-shoes at the end of the series?

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    • EXACTLY! And, pfft, character development... Tarrlok and Noatak got better character development in the season finale than anyone else ever did in both shows combined, so those self righteous critics can go home.

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    • Their story made me cry....the only character stories that did tat did that in ATLA are Zuko's and Katara's.

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    • I agree that their story made me cry. Katara's was emotional, but it didn't make me cry. Hama's hit home, though. But, yeah, Tarrlok and Noatak made me tear up. I found it amazing, though, that, no matter how much like trash Noatak treated Tarrlok, Tarrlok held it in.

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    • But I never cried or teared until Tarrlok and Noatak.

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    • Well actually I never really cried I just really liked it. 

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    • Oh, haha, alright. Yeah, got teary eyed about Noatak and Tarrlok.

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    • What I don't get is how The whole "Amon is Noatak" and "Zuko is not Ozai's son" is apparently a bad plot device.

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    • I love Zuko, and hope he comes back. Lol

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      • Shrug* I like them both quite well. And they wrapped up the Search part 3 very well.
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    • I still haven't read it.

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    • It's amazing. (To me, anyway :P)

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    • 1. Korra used to get her ass kicked by Pro-benders. She will be decimated on Harmonic Convergence.

      2. Ozai had Sozin's comet and the backing of an entire army. Aang just had his friends and allies.

      3. Character development =/= goody too shoes. Take Sokka as an example. He went from a sarcastic 'bone flinging savage' to a genius, a war strategist, and a great politician.

      Aang. He went from a goofy kid that wasn't serious about anything to a kid who was willing to sacrifice himself to save Ba Sing Se, and then the world.

      Katara. She...didn't really change, I didn't like her that much anyways. But I do like her more as an old lady.

      Toph. She went from a rude asshole to a girl who upholds honor more than Zuko did. In the end, she decided to take up law, and she gave birth to the most awesome character besides herself in the World of Avatar. I still maintain that Toph was so badass, she just went and fertilized her own eggs on her own.

      Zuko. He went from a whiny brat who complained about his not getting what he wanted even though he's royalty to a man who let go of his past and embraced a new future, of peace and prosperity.

      Meanwhile Korra is still a whiny bitch (less so after Iroh's lessons), Mako is a womanizer, Asami is naive as hell, Bolin's only defining character is comedy, and he's not even funny anymore, and the Airbending kids are the only ones that progressed (Ikki with the flying bisons, Meelo with the lemurs, and Jinora with the Dragonfly-Bunny Spirits.)

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    • AvatarIonathan wrote: I still haven't read it.

      You might be very angry when you read it. (I was, anyway.)

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    • My two cents:

      Korra went from being a hot-headed rebel to being whatever she becomes in Book 4.

      Mako went from being a grumpy, bossy guardian of Bolin to being whatever he becomes in Book 4.

      Bolin went from being a naivish little child to being whatever he becomes in Book 4.

      Asami went from being a billionare's tomboy to being whatever she becomes in Book 4.

      Be patient. We're only on Book 2.

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    • Aang progressed even in Book 1, when he had those flashbacks of Gyatso, etc.

      Katara progressed when she stopped acting like she had the world on her shoulders when she didn't, really. This was in book 2.

      Toph progressed within book 2, when she apologized to the avatar and explained why she behaved that way in front of her parents.

      Zuko progressed in book 2 when he was living as a refugee and he learned humility and modesty.

      In LoK, Mako progressed a bit when he started to take his work seriously and he did that sting operation with asami. But then he turned out just to be womanizing girls again.

      Bolin did not progress at all, and he even became more immature.

      Sato is a pretty cool chick. Seh flies airplanes and doesn't afraid of anything.

      Korra is barely progressing, she started to change after Beginnings, and she finally got over her emotional turmoil with the help of spirit Iroh.

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    • An episode that I thought really gave Korra a lot of CD was "The Voice in The Night". She stopped diving into things head-on and realized some of her true limitations. 

      Mako seemed like a jerk at the beginning but found the light in things when he met Asami and Korra. The Love Triangle I felt gave his character a lot of depth. Womanizing Asami....I think that's just the way she took it. I think he was just doing his job.

      Varrick has definantly been giving Bolin a lot of character development. He's really using his head. I also thought Republic City Hustle gave him some character development, too. 

      Asami's now the leader of Future Industries. A true adult.

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    • ^THIS!

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    • Winterfirstsnow* wrote:

      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      .... thing over ONE statement from Bryan that M. Night "misrepresented his work," which frankly did happen, & he's well within his rights to be mad about. You also consistently ignore that the actual characters are the ones designed to be Asian, which they accomplish because, survey says--he hired Asians to help design them. Which M. Night did not.'

      em, why would M. Night need to hire Asians? Why is a reinterpretation of a story a "misrepresentation"? After all, ATLA is also called the Legend of Aang, and don't legends change over time? Of course, some versions are better than others, but you'll find fans of all different versions of Robin Hood and Batman, even Greek mythology. Its only a movie inspired by Mike and Bryan's work (if I remember correctly, they took some inspiration from another tv show) so there really is no reason M. Night had to stick to their version.

      There's your problem. All adaptations are not created equal. But one thing all good adaptations share is that there's a certain respect for the source material that "The Last Airbender" was lacking. Changes that he made were apparently not "for fans" or "for critics," leading one to wonder just who the Hell they were for. Himself, I guess. They were, for the most part, arbitrary. The few times he did make changes that might be improvements, he didn't take advantage of them. For example, Yue supposedly leads the Northern Water Tribe, but she doesn't give any orders. The result, his movie is not a faithful adaptation, it's not a partial adaptation that goes in an interesting new direction, & it's sure not an original story.

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    • Thing is, right after The Voice in The Night, korra continued diving into things head on (she dived into the ocean to save a fleet from mines, and she ended up destroying only two planes and saving only one person)


      Mako is still a jerk. A misunderstood jerk, but seriously, Korra had just left and he does this wierd ass grin at Asami with this teeth stuck to his lips. He is constantly trying to get in a girls pants. So am I, but usually I am satisfied with one at a time.


      Varrik was awesome while he lasted, especially his voice actor.

      Bolin, like I said, probably won't get any development until Book 3. As of now, he is of no importance to the plot.

      Asami didn't really need much improvement, but she must learn to stop being so naive and putting her full trust in people. She trusted her father, Mako, and Varrick, in this respective order.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      There's your problem. All adaptations are not created equal. But one thing all good adaptations share is that there's a certain respect for the source material that "The Last Airbender" was lacking. Changes that he made were apparently not "for fans" or "for critics," leading one to wonder just who the Hell they were for. Himself, I guess. They were, for the most part, arbitrary. The few times he did make changes that might be improvements, he didn't take advantage of them. For example, Yue supposedly leads the Northern Water Tribe, but she doesn't give any orders. The result, his movie is not a faithful adaptation, it's not a partial adaptation that goes in an interesting new direction, & it's sure not an original story.


      meh, I don't know if you've ever seen the adaptations for the Clique, Percy Jackson, Prince of Persia, A Series of Unfortunate Events, and the newer Dawn Treader, TLA is about as faithful as most adaptations are. Again, that doesn't mean that it's fantastic, or that you have to like it. From what I've read, the film was for his kids (he did run things by them) so I guess in a way it was for himself. Just so happens, a bunch of other people liked it too, but then they got beaten on the head with spiked clubs....O_O

      not everyones going to like the movie, but then not everyone liked the show either.... Its possible that in a few years, someone will be digging through old shows and will write some sort of a tv soap opera based on ATLA and then there'll be more second-class fans ;)

      (do movie fans outrank soap opera fans? :P )

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    • em, why would M. Night need to hire Asians? Why is a reinterpretation of a story a "misrepresentation"?

      It's a reoccuring thing in Hollywood. Hollywood wants to use Asian culture, Asian Philosophy, and Asian settings, but rarely (if Ever) actually uses Asian People as the main characters, even to the point where they are minor characters in stories set in their own countries. Much less a fantasy world based almost 100% on Asia.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYBJprcCq8Q

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    • "meh, I don't know if you've ever seen the adaptations for the Clique, Percy Jackson, Prince of Persia, A Series of Unfortunate Events, and the newer Dawn Treader, TLA is about as faithful as most adaptations are."

      No, but I've seen Disney movies, the Watchmen movie, the Nolan Batman movies, the older Batman movies, the DCAU, the old Spider-Man cartoon, some of the new Spider-Man cartoon, & the Harry Potter movies. I also have a passing familiarity with God of War. Off the top of my head. I can tell you that not all of these adaptations are "good," but many of them have some real pros, & know what to change to make things better.

      "Again, that doesn't mean that it's fantastic, or that you have to like it."

      I don't even really know what we're arguing about, I'm just trying to beat down the constant deluge of E-mail notifications that I'm getting from this forum.

      "From what I've read, the film was for his kids (he did run things by them) so I guess in a way it was for himself."

      Then perhaps the lesson here is that the "Axe Cop Method" is a terrible way to direct a movie.

      "Just so happens, a bunch of other people liked it too, but then they got beaten on the head with spiked clubs....O_O"

      I'm afraid I can't really muster much sympathy for movie fans. From a technical/writing standpoint, it really isn't very good. I frankly have quite enough to deal with when it comes to the fandom ripping apart Korra without helping to defend people's tastes against my better judgment.

      "(do movie fans outrank soap opera fans? :P )"

      Is it one of those soap operas that uses cardboard cutouts of people instead of real actors?

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    • RaidenRadio wrote:
      em, why would M. Night need to hire Asians? Why is a reinterpretation of a story a "misrepresentation"?

      It's a reoccuring thing in Hollywood. Hollywood wants to use Asian culture, Asian Philosophy, and Asian settings, but rarely (if Ever) actually uses Asian People as the main characters, even to the point where they are minor characters in stories set in their own countries. Much less a fantasy world based almost 100% on Asia.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYBJprcCq8Q

      That doesn't mean he has to hire anyone of a specific race, especially since we were talking about designers, not actors. Why couldn't he mix cultures? There are more and more mixed familys and sharing of traditions these days. He certainly didn't have to stick to Bryke's version, and it clearly wasn't his aim to, so he might as well have made changes he liked. 

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    • The Percy Jackson adaptation was absolutely terrible just for your information.  I read the Percy Jackson books and it did so many things wrong.  It's not like I didn't expect changes to happen, but a lot of things they did completely ruined the entire movie franchise as they left out very important elements of the story and changed characters completely from what they were described in the book and even left out very important characters critical for the plot.  I mean there was this main prophecy that was in every book as a major warning for the protagonists but because of the changes they can't even use the main prophecy now.  So yea, I saw the first movie and have vowed to never see another one after that.

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    • @Neo Have you seen Spectacular-Spiderman?

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    • It's a good idea to get native representatives of the culture, if not strictly necessary. The point, at least in my opinion, is that he made no attempt whatsoever at proper cultural representation.

      Mako100 wrote: @Neo Have you seen Spectacular-Spiderman?

      Some. I thought the idea was interesting, but the constant meta-humor got annoying fast.

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    • @Neo More then Ultimate Spiderman?

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    • Okay, I actually have no idea what the difference is between "Ultimate Spider-Man" & "Spectacular Spider-Man."

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    • Spectacular Spider-Man was awesome. It had a great story, characters, voice cast, mature themes, and overall was just epic. Here is the link to the first part of the episode.

      Ultimate Spider-Man is a toned down show meant to entertain 4 year olds. With cheap humor, 2-dimensional characters, an unlikable hero, and a lame story. This is all imo of course. Here is a clip from it.


      Please tell me which is better when you're done.

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    • Can't get the clips to work.

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    • They're both extremely decent. Way too far off from the storyline.

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    • @Neo Okay they are not working on mobile. So here are the trailers instead.

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvP4cp2LZA

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nyMKJcnWh4k

      @T.U.W. K.

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    • For some reason, none of the Ultimate Spider-Man videos have sound, but I've seen enough. That was definitely the one I was referring to. I recall seeing a bit of Spectacular Spider-Man. I didn't like it either, but I don't remember why not.

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    • I agree with you, Neo, about not liking it.

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    • Understood.

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    • The only spiderman I watch are the movie adaptations and I've played spiderman games too.

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    • @Pheonixking3000 Ever read any Spiderman?

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    • Nope, I don't read any comics actually.

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    • Oh, nice. Wait, then how'd you know so much about the comics of DC and engage in full on discussion with me about them before? o_o

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    • I don't really like comics, because I don't like the notion that the entire story could dramatically shift because there's a new writer & he wants to bring his favorite character back from the dead, or something. I think they should do a model more like how manga works. You get one author, one set story, & if it's popular enough, another author can adapt it using a different story, & so on. So, to that effect, I do like a lot of series & movies featuring superheroes.

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    • I guess I do know a lot for someone who doesn't read comics, but there is a reason for it.  I read the dc and marvel wiki's sometimes and read up on the feats of the characters.  I've also watched many debates between dbz and dc fans  on which characters were stronger and learned a lot about certain characters in those debates.  

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    • That does make sense. But I do like manga, too. But I don't agree about liking superhero movies and shows more than the comics, because they water down and change way too much, imo. I dislike them usually for the same reason why I dislike Shymalan's TLAB or Dragonball Evolution.

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    • @Neo Oh cool. Which movies you like the most?

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    • @Pheonixking3000 Hahahaha, oh yeah XD Alright, cool, then you watched the right people. Because, as cool and strong as Goku is, I can't stand the fanboys who seriously believe that he can take on an unrestrained Superman -_- But alright makes sense. For me, though, a superhero movie that strays off from the comics is like a movie that strays off from the book. For example, I like the "Harry Potter" series and the movies, as well, but I'd hate it if they, like, kept Fred alive in the movies just to keep them kid friendly XD

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    • If you haven't seen the last Harry Potter movie, SPOILER ALERT: Instead of that, to keep it kid friendly, the bad guys inexplicably vaporize when defeated. Some of the movies were definitely better than others.

      Mako100 wrote: @Neo Oh cool. Which movies you like the most?

      Batman: The Dark Knight Rises.

      Superman: Man of Steel, I guess. I'm not really much of a Superman fan.

      Spider-Man: Spider-Man 3.

      X-Men: First Class.

      I also liked the Watchmen movie.

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    • @Neo I loved all of those. Have you seen The Days Of Future Past trailer?

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    • @Neo Oh, I agree completely, and the fifth and sixth movie, I, admittedly, did not enjoy. But the last two were good, imo. But I agree. But, yeah, that's why I don't like most superhero shows, or even movies. Also, I don't like the watering down on them and how they're made extremely weak.

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    • TarrlokUltimateWaterbender wrote:
      @Pheonixking3000 Hahahaha, oh yeah XD Alright, cool, then you watched the right people. Because, as cool and strong as Goku is, I can't stand the fanboys who seriously believe that he can take on an unrestrained Superman -_- But alright makes sense. For me, though, a superhero movie that strays off from the comics is like a movie that strays off from the book. For example, I like the "Harry Potter" series and the movies, as well, but I'd hate it if they, like, kept Fred alive in the movies just to keep them kid friendly XD

      I think most dbz fans make the mistake of comparing goku to the animated version of superman who is extremely weak compared to the comic book version.  Comic book version superman might as well be a god, I mean his feats are just haxed beyond reason.

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    • Superpowers can get pretty out of control, so I'm fine with a bit of nerfing. As far as Harry Potter goes, I believe I enjoyed I, II, IV, & V.

      I don't know whether or not I've seen the "Days of Future Past" trailer. I don't really like the sound of it, though. X-Men: First Class ended up deviating so much from the rest of the X-Men films that I think they should have just considered it a reboot. I don't know how they're going to do a sequel to "both series" without it feeling contrived. Not to mention that the X-Men: The Last Stand was not widely loved.

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    • @Neo I get what you're saying. I'm cool with that. I'll leave it at this: what I really hate is when people try to use movies and shows as canon evidence in fights in canon matchups. So, I get what you're saying about powers, but, yeah, like when people cartoon version of Superman or Teen Titans, which are 95% PIS, then that irks me. As for personal preference to which one you enjoy more, that's all your domain :D

      @Pheonixking3000 Haha, pretty much all of DC might as well be -_- Try the Wonder family and Starfire... and they're all Supers without Kryptonite XD Or Raven, who's just a freaking beast. Comics of DC and Marvel are super OP haha.

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    • Pheonixking3000 wrote:

      TarrlokUltimateWaterbender wrote:
      @Pheonixking3000 Hahahaha, oh yeah XD Alright, cool, then you watched the right people. Because, as cool and strong as Goku is, I can't stand the fanboys who seriously believe that he can take on an unrestrained Superman -_- But alright makes sense. For me, though, a superhero movie that strays off from the comics is like a movie that strays off from the book. For example, I like the "Harry Potter" series and the movies, as well, but I'd hate it if they, like, kept Fred alive in the movies just to keep them kid friendly XD

      I think most dbz fans make the mistake of comparing goku to the animated version of superman who is extremely weak compared to the comic book version.  Comic book version superman might as well be a god, I mean his feats are just haxed beyond reason.

      I make fun of Superman for being OP all of the time, but I don't think people really understand just how OP Goku is.

      In Dragonball Z, you can destroy the moon with a power level of 139.

      Goku reaches 150 million. By the end of the Namek Arc.

      Frieza's dad, introduced a few weeks later, who's basically trash to the Z-Fighters by that point? He's 470 million.

      At this point, they stop really giving you power levels for Goku, but you get the idea.

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    • Oh, Goku's OP, but I assure you that he has no shot against someone who, while retrained, accidentally sneezed out a solar system. Goku's strong and can fight for sure, but he's not beating Superman. Superman would beat the ever loving crap out of him. Goku's fast, but not as fast as Superman. Nothing in his arsenal can harm Superman. Superman, on the other hand, needs a few good hits, and his heat vision's plenty hotter than the sun, so that's a problem, too.

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    • @Neo

      Freza's dad at 470 million?  I'm pretty sure that's too much for him, since he was so easily raped by trunks who was a weaker super saiyan than Goku.  Goku had a powerlevel of 150 million at that point too so yeah.

      But yeah, Goku IS pretty op too, more than dc fans give him credit for.  The dbz fans make the mistake of comparing goku to animated supes, but dc fans tend to downgrade Goku's powers heavily because they do it in terms of feats accomplished.  We know for sure Goku can blow up a planet, Roshi destroyed the moon with such a low power level, he wasn't even at 200. Then Goku reaches 150 million like you said by the end of Namek Saga.  Even though Goku has never destroyed a planet, we know he has the power to.  In fact, with such a high power level later on, he should be able to destroy multiple galaxies. Super Perfect Cell claimed he had the power to blow up the entire solar system with his kamahameha, and ssj2 Gohan at less than half his power was able to overpower that and destroy Cell completely. And later on towards the end of the series, Cell is considered to be fodder compared to the z fighters.  So there's bias on both sides.

      @TarrlokUltimateWaterbender

      Even though Goku is op,  I agree he still couldn't possibly beat superman right now.

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    • Edit: Might behoove me to put these numbers into context. The DBZ Wiki has a list of power levels that I was going to link to, but mistakenly closed the page before I got the chance. They come from various in-universe statements, or statements from Toriyama. Do I think that Toriyama actually did the math? Pfft, no. I'm assuming that DBZ has a consistent power level even though it definitely doesn't, just to give people an idea of how crazy these numbers are. In reality, the real reason why Goku vs. Superman would be such a tough fight is that they're both as powerful as the plot wants them to be. With that said:

      3381294.9640287769784173

      This is how much stronger than Master Roshi King Cold is.

      7.34767309 × 1022 kilograms (mass of the moon) x that number up there = 248446500165467625899283060004.57

      This translates to 2.4x10^29.

      This falls just a little bit shy of the mass of the sun, 1.989E30 kg. It's a real testament to the scale of these objects that this thing is still kicking, but it probably wouldn't be for long because:

      1. Goku's power level jumps on the order of millions in just a few days. In fact, we're not even talking about anything that's truly near Goku's max power. King Cold is a joke to Trunks in his basic form. Goku is already a lot stronger than Trunks at this point. And this is before anyone discovers Super Saiyan 2.

      2. DBZ characters can fire these blasts repeatedly.

      3. I generously assumed that all of their power goes into these blasts. There are numerous statements to the contrary.

      So what does this mean? Well, the rest of the solar system's mass could fit comfortably inside the sun, were it hollow. So, that solar system would probably just burn up inside of a Ki beam. And Goku tanks these things when they're shot at him like a swarm of bees.

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    • @Neo @Pheonixking3000 Has either of you guys heard of that new movie with the Super Saiyan God transformation? XD

      @Pheonixking3000 Azula> Vegeta XD

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    • @Neo Oh trust me, Days Of Future Past will be great. I THINK it's based off a comic book. Check out the trailer.

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    • It certainly looks...interesting. It is based off of a comic series, but I'm told that it "was basically Screw Continuity even then."

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    • Considering how Goku was based upon the Monkey King (from journey to the West) [孙悟空-sun wukong] and even his name on the original japanese version is 孫悟空[Son goku], and that the monkey king could wild with ease his 8.100 kilogram fighting staff, and could travel over 50.000 kilometers in one single jump, I can perfectly see and understand where the extreme power of the character comes from... 

      Goku is a badass, and I don't know much of the show but I'm pretty sure Goku > Superman, and Superman has that cryptonite weakness where as I don't think Goku really has one, except if his Qi [Ki] power depletes using such powerful abilities...

      But then again Superman is immortal... but yea, in raw power Goku is much more powerful.


      Want to talk about powah, unlimited powah?

      Suzumiya Haruhi.  (character on middle of the photo)

      Essentially a deity in human form, if something does not go according to her wishes, it might have an side effect [such as spiritual beings wrecking hell in another dimension] which could include "reseting" the entire world.

      Having the power [even without having conscience of the extent of such acts] of shaping/changing reality according to her wishes so if she really wants people to fly, that 'wish' might distort all the known laws of physics/logic and yea, that shall happen for example.

      Not counting when time loops basically for ever because she just wanted to do ONE single thing at the end of a vacation week. Yea, the time was looping for basically hundreds of years without she even noticing. 

      All this happened without she even noticing the full extent of her own powers (essentially she doesn't know how powerful she is, or even that she has some different skill/power than other humans).

      Let aside if she really knew, she could create the world again, or even the universe... or create a different dimension. travel through time, etc. 


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    • Superman can kinda do that too, depending on the writer. He once punched a hole in the universe that retconned everything. Can Goku do that? Quite possibly. In "Legend of Bardock," it turns out that--spoiler alert--Frieza's attack somehow accidentally sent Bardock back in time, where he became the original Legendary Super Saiyan. And, as we've already established, Goku is way more powerful than Frieza.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: It certainly looks...interesting. It is based off of a comic series, but I'm told that it "was basically Screw Continuity even then."

      Oh alright. I'll definitely still go see it. The young, and old X-Men joining forces will be epic :D Did you see the Captain America 2 trailer?

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Edit: Might behoove me to put these numbers into context. The DBZ Wiki has a list of power levels that I was going to link to, but mistakenly closed the page before I got the chance. They come from various in-universe statements, or statements from Toriyama. Do I think that Toriyama actually did the math? Pfft, no. I'm assuming that DBZ has a consistent power level even though it definitely doesn't, just to give people an idea of how crazy these numbers are. In reality, the real reason why Goku vs. Superman would be such a tough fight is that they're both as powerful as the plot wants them to be. With that said:

      3381294.9640287769784173

      This is how much stronger than Master Roshi King Cold is.

      7.34767309 × 1022 kilograms (mass of the moon) x that number up there = 248446500165467625899283060004.57

      This translates to 2.4x10^29.

      This falls just a little bit shy of the mass of the sun, 1.989E30 kg. It's a real testament to the scale of these objects that this thing is still kicking, but it probably wouldn't be for long because:

      1. Goku's power level jumps on the order of millions in just a few days. In fact, we're not even talking about anything that's truly near Goku's max power. King Cold is a joke to Trunks in his basic form. Goku is already a lot stronger than Trunks at this point. And this is before anyone discovers Super Saiyan 2.

      2. DBZ characters can fire these blasts repeatedly.

      3. I generously assumed that all of their power goes into these blasts. There are numerous statements to the contrary.

      So what does this mean? Well, the rest of the solar system's mass could fit comfortably inside the sun, were it hollow. So, that solar system would probably just burn up inside of a Ki beam. And Goku tanks these things when they're shot at him like a swarm of bees.

      It's honestly. not. The only thing that Goku has going for him is better martial arts... but that's useless against Superman's invulnerability. Goku might've tanked something that could blow up the solar system, but Superman accidentally sneezes that out and, when Gokun uses instant transmission, is at equal speed with him. But Superman's physical strength makes the match a brutal beatdown against Goku. I'm equally a fan of both, but Goku would never, ever beat Superman in a neutral domain where they're not allowed to fight. Goku doesn't have anything that can harm Superman, whereas the latter cannot be said true. The likes of Superman, Wonder Woman, Starfire, etc. would do away with Goku rather fast. But, if we're talking about cartoon version, then, yes, Goku takes it handily.

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    • Emperor Qin wrote:
      Considering how Goku was based upon the Monkey King (from journey to the West) [孙悟空-sun wukong] and even his name on the original japanese version is 孫悟空[Son goku], and that the monkey king could wild with ease his 8.100 kilogram fighting staff, and could travel over 50.000 kilometers in one single jump, I can perfectly see and understand where the extreme power of the character comes from... 

      Goku is a badass, and I don't know much of the show but I'm pretty sure Goku > Superman, and Superman has that cryptonite weakness where as I don't think Goku really has one, except if his Qi [Ki] power depletes using such powerful abilities...

      But then again Superman is immortal... but yea, in raw power Goku is much more powerful.


      Want to talk about powah, unlimited powah?

      Suzumiya Haruhi.  (character on middle of the photo)

      Essentially a deity in human form, if something does not go according to her wishes, it might have an side effect [such as spiritual beings wrecking hell in another dimension] which could include "reseting" the entire world.

      Having the power [even without having conscience of the extent of such acts] of shaping/changing reality according to her wishes so if she really wants people to fly, that 'wish' might distort all the known laws of physics/logic and yea, that shall happen for example.

      Not counting when time loops basically for ever because she just wanted to do ONE single thing at the end of a vacation week. Yea, the time was looping for basically hundreds of years without she even noticing. 

      All this happened without she even noticing the full extent of her own powers (essentially she doesn't know how powerful she is, or even that she has some different skill/power than other humans).

      Let aside if she really knew, she could create the world again, or even the universe... or create a different dimension. travel through time, etc. 


      See, Superman's heat vision can destroy planets just as easily as Goku's Kamehameha and such can. Spirit Bomb's not going to work, since Superman's got a pure heart. But, as far as intellect and sheer physical force goes, Superman swats Goku like a bug. Their long range attacks are more or less equal. Goku's martial arts skill are most definitely better... but his intelligence is rather... off... which puts him at a heavy disadvantage against Superman. If Superman or any of DC's top tier heroes fights unrestrained, then Goku's in for a brutal curmstomp and beatdown... let's just say that it'd make Ozai's punishment to Zuko look like a gift XD

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    • Pheonixking3000 wrote:
      The Percy Jackson adaptation was absolutely terrible just for your information.  I read the Percy Jackson books and it did so many things wrong.  It's not like I didn't expect changes to happen, but a lot of things they did completely ruined the entire movie franchise as they left out very important elements of the story and changed characters completely from what they were described in the book and even left out very important characters critical for the plot.  I mean there was this main prophecy that was in every book as a major warning for the protagonists but because of the changes they can't even use the main prophecy now.  So yea, I saw the first movie and have vowed to never see another one after that.

      With this, I can agree 100%!

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    • AvatarIonathan wrote:
      What I don't get is how The whole "Amon is Noatak" and "Zuko is not Ozai's son" is apparently a bad plot device.

      I get for Zuko not being Ozai's son; I really do. But, for Amon being Noatak... no, that was beautifully written!

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    • Can we please get back on topic?

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    • I was perfectly content just to let the subject of the movie die.

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    • Of course. When your argument is in doubt, change the subject. Lixa.gif

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    • You're the one who stopped responding to me. Also, mud-slinging is lame when you can't go all the way.

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    • lol

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      • Sigh* Why must we be constantly at war? -_-
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    • Lady Lostris
      Lady Lostris removed this reply because:
      Contained only deleted image
      12:19, November 12, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • For those of you interested in the horrid live action films director, he's getting ready to roll out his next movie soon.

      From Shyamalans Website:

      In case if you guys are not yet aware, Shyamalan’s been working on a script, which he calls it a micro-budget film. Plot is yet to be divulged by Shyamalan, though. Just recently he tweeted in regards to his script that he is starting to crew up. Location scout starts scouting in a few weeks.

      Shyamalan’s Night Chronicles’ second installment titled ‘Reincarnate’ is also getting ready to roll in 2014. Now, is Shyamalan referring to ‘Reincarnate’ or something totally different? – I hope it’s the latter. Night Chronicle’s second film, a chapter 2 to 2010’s Devil, as reported, is penned by Chris Sparling (Buried) and was announced that director Daniel Stamm was attached to direct once.

      No matter which, we are excited to see both films. They are coming from the mind of Shyamalan himself. Let us know what you guys think by leaving comments below.

      ==

      Fpr better or worse it doesn't look like he's going to be making a Last Airbender sequel.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      You're the one who stopped responding to me.

      Yeah, I have been tied up with work and stuff. I suppose I should have used the {{inactive}} template. Shall I notify you next time so you won't miss me when I am gone? http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd378/ketekbau/Emoticon/kedip.gif

      TarrlokUltimateWaterbender wrote:
      *Sigh* Why must we be constantly at war? -_-

      Because some fans act like fanatics in the religious sense, and are zealously waging a "holy war" against heretics like M. Night Shyamalan and his cult of worshipers. They treat ATLA like some kind of sacred text, so any mispronunciation is as correct and as intended as typographical errors in the Bible. Your time is better spent preaching peace and tolerance with Jews, Christians and Muslims in the Middle East to be quite honest. Icon_lolno.gif

      The "mispronunciation" of foreign names by American English speakers is older than ATLA itself and most foreigners have simply put up with it. In particular, romanization of Chinese (including Wade–Giles and Pinyin) is mostly based in British English phonetic spelling. Check out this Wikipedia entry on "phonological history of English short A". An American English speaker like James Cameron will say AE-VATAR, but other English speakers like Peter Jackson will say AH-VATAR. AENG is a just common pronunciation for Áng (昂) for American English speakers, which is fine with me, but to insist that AHNG is "wrong" is a resentful display of American arrogance and ignorance. It is like telling Mexicans the correct pronunciation of Mexico is MEK-SI-KOH, not ME-HEE-KAW. Eusa_doh.gif

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