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  • So everyone is baffled about him being Zuko's father. That's what we know until proven otherwise.

    Many think that by doing this Bryke spoiled Zuko's character - he having two lineages Avatar and Firelord and he chosing the good side even though his family has a history of being the bad guys. Or the fact that all his struggle from ATLA is no longer valid because of this. All this is wrong. 

    In my humble opinion Zuko was confused in more ways than one. He was even confused about his own father/family. First he starts as the father pleaser and then throughout the series he goes through such an emotional struggle that he doesn't see Ozai  as his father anymore.


    About Ikem.

    Nobody took into account the fact that he could see spirits. The spirit of the Wolf. 

    Sure when spirits want to they can be seen such as when Hei Bai was seen by all the villagers whose homes he was destroying but as we also know from ATLA a few select people can see spirits even when they don't want to be seen. ( Iroh - saw Fang and Aang) So that rises some questions:

    -What is Ikem's connection with the spirit?

    -Why can he see spirits?

    -Why has the spirit chose to reveal itself to him? Besides Team Avatar. He could have chosen not to.

    That tells us a great deal about his character. 

    We don't know his background his lineage and we judge and some say he shouldn't be the father. 

    Frankly when I saw him trying to bring Ursa back with that sword it instanty reminded me of Zuko and his swords. 

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    • MasterAirbender02 wrote:

      Frankly when I saw him trying to bring Ursa back with that sword it instanty reminded me of Zuko and his swords. 

      exact same thoughts here.

      But i think the better question is, who is that spirit?

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    • From what I have read, it is an odd spirit indeed: a marked wolf that coughs up killer moths. That said, this is a spirit we are talking about, they have been known to take multiple shapes every now and again, as we see with Hei Bai.

      My guess is that it is indeed the spirit of Ursa. Agents loyal to the previous Fire Lord found out what she did, tracked her down, and slew her. Thus far, her spirit has been silently watching out for her children, often in dreams and hallucinations. Now that Zuko and Azula are digging up things that should not be unearthed, she has taken a more feral form to try to discourage them from going any further, fearful of what her children may discover about her past.

      Or, alternatively, Ikem is a shaman who has summoned the beast in order to dispell the young adventurers, for he himself may have murdered Ursa himself upon her return to the island after being banished (her letters never got to him, so he was probably stewing in his resentment for years), and wants to cover things up.

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    • MasterAirbender02
      MasterAirbender02 removed this reply because:
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      21:30, March 28, 2013
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    • The first variant seems more likely. 

      The second one not so much since we saw Ikem was also surprised to see the spirit and a bit frigthened (If I am not mistaken)

      I can't wait to find out . Frankly I expected her spirit form ( if it is her) to be a bear hence her name , Ursa.

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    • Surprise can be feigned, as can fear. The pain of not only losing the love of your life and then having said love not speak to you ever again can drive a man down dark and horrible paths.

      True, I too would have thought Ursa would have been a bear, though that would be a bit too obvious, and Ursa may not have wanted to take such an obvious form when trying to drive away her children.

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    • i don't think ursa would try to drive away her own children that she loves and misses so much....seems to me like she's seeking thim out: if the wolf is indeed ursa, she went to find ikem (she showed up at his pond in his cave). also, you could look at the fight from the wolf's perspective, which is that the kids attacked first, so she was just defending herself.

      but really, i don't think that the wolf is anyone we know. also, i don't think that people in the real world become spirits, or if they do, i really don't think they take alternate forms: look at the past lives of the avatar, those memories stay in human form

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    • Alright, then what exactly is it doing in the material plane? If what you're saying is accurate, it doesn't sound as if it is agitated.

      I wonder if someone summoned it? There are shamans in the world of Avatar, such as the one at General Fong's stronghold, perhaps one was able to call the wolf spirit for some undisclosed reason.

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    • The fact that the Avatars before Aang chose to have the same spirit form as when they were alive doesn't really tell us that humans " in the real world" don't become spirits.. why wouldn't they?

      Besides Bryke already said they will expand on the idea of the Spirit World in LOK and I'm pretty sure they will tell us more about it than we knew in ATLA.  In the fist series we saw little of the spirit world. Only a few spirtis and that's all. Who knows what's next.

      I'm pretty sure that's were all people end up after dying in that universe. Even though we see only past Avatats spirits and local spirits. 

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    • I don't know, humans in fantasy have a tendency to not be that attached to the world after they die. Moving beyond the spheres of the world into the Timeless Halls in the Tolkienverse, moving through the Fade to the Maker's side in Dragon Age, and the farthest reaches of the Nevernever from the Dresden Files seem to suggest, in a rather narsisicistic fashion in my opinion, that humans are meant for greater things later on. The Avatar is a part of the world, and thus likely cannot enjoy the true afterlife that other humans likely can. Rather, they are bound to the Spirit World, which is as close as they can get to the mortal plane without actually stepping foot into it.

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    • hmmm could be. Like in Greek mythology where Heroes and other great men , warriors and whatnot went to Olympus and ordinary humans went either to Hades or The Elysian Fields. True there they are pretty separated and cannot really realte to the Spirit World and such but it's pretty close

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    • Technically the Elysian fields are in Hades, and I'm pretty sure thats where the heros go. Normal humans get to drink underworld water that makes them forget things, and the bad get booted to Tartarus to get ironically tortured for a while. Olympus is reserved for gods and demigods like Heracles.

      The thing is, even Hades had some earthly connections. Humans in fantasy tend to be a bit of a mystery when they die with very few earthly connections, mirroring our own questions about the afterlife. Elves and dwarves? Perfect certainty where they're going. Humans? Haven't the slightest idea.

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    • Ah yes! You are right both are in Hades. my mistake there. 

      About heroes I have read many legends in which it is said they go both ways. either Olympus and Elysian field but I can very well be wrong on this it was a long time ago when i first read many of the legends. 

      It is said that the Avatar represents the world so it is only naturally that even after death he would retain a connection with it via the next Avatar and so on. 

      But that wolf spirit being Ursa's could open up a whole new dimenssion. A whole new perspective to the Spirit World. 

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    • Well, sometimes there can be... choices, that leave one's spirit on the material plane. Unfinished business, a troubled loved one, all that jazz. Perhaps Ursa didn't want to see the hearafter just yet, chosing to stay relatively close to those troubled children of hers.

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    • With kids like hers I totally understand. 

      A little question : what is this thing about the third child? I don't quite understand it  , something about Ursa having another kid. 

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    • Remarrying after she ran away? I haven't heard anything about a third kid. I now have a strange and hilarious image of Zuko trying to be a good big brother and not, you know, Ozai.

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    • HAHA yeah Zuko would feel really awkward he already doesn't like having brothers or sisters and I don't blame him.

      Yeah it was a rumor right after the search part 1 came out. but it was probaly the same thing with " one clue for the name of Lins daddy can be found in her name" . 

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    • As much as he despises Azula, I can see him putting forth considerable effort to be the big brother he never was with daddy's pwincess.

      Hmmm... Lin... Lin...

      I got nothing

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    • My guess is that , like Ikem , Lin's daddy will be an unkown character. 

      I am sick and tired of the fandom always pairing up Toph with the Duke or Haru. 

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    • At least its usually not the things I've seen on deviantart or tumblr

      • shudders* the pairings I've seen...
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    • whats the thing about lin's name=a clue to her dad? i never heard anything like that. and i'm with TANC, can't come up with anything.

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    • yea i agree with intelligence, it is obvious that the wolf isnt anyone's spirit considering everyone's alive when the wolf first appears(I dont suppose people can be both human and spirit at the same time); it may just be the spirit of the forest.  

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    • we don't know if Ursa is alive at that point or not.

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    • That's very true: we don't know how much time passed between Ikem hitting the ol' dusty trail and him encountering the Wolf Spirit. Theres just no segway or establishing panel to work with. For all we know, the day he encountered the Wolf Spirit was the day Ursa was banished, or perhaps the day after, or a year after, we just don't know.

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    • we do know it was long enough for him to build a little hut and what-not, and grow a long beard and long hair. actually, if you ask me, the unkept ikem looks a lot like sokka's wang fire persona, although i'm sure that means nothing. :)

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    • I thought I was the only one who noticed that. But maybe it's just a coincidence. 

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    • I'm starting to think maybe Ikem and Zuko have a spiritual connection.  the search addresses some aspects of the spiritual side of avatar. Ursa problably has a spiritual connection with azula instead of azula just hallucinating. I believe aang or maybe somehow the rest of the group would be thrown into the spirit world where they will find out once and for all what happened. This is just brain storming and guessing on my part

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    • and to add on I don't think zuko is ikem's son it wouldn't make sense during the entire events of ATLA  I think the creators add the twin swords thing as something to throw the readers off.

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    • I hate to cross polinate, but this situation sort of reminds me of Elphaba's (aka the Wicked Witch of the West), from the Wicked series by Gregory Maguire, brother Shell. Shell's parentage was always in question as her mother was having an affair with another man while being married to Elphaba's father. As it turns out, Elphaba's father also had a thing for the other man, so when a child was produced, he was considered by all three to be their son, not necessarily in genetic material but in spirit.

      I think the "our son" Ursa mentioned was more of a spiritual and emotional bond rather than a genetic one, as Zuko may just remind Ursa of Ikem without him actually being the father of the new Fire Lord. Just a thought

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    • man! the creators really trolled us with this one. it's like "Who's Amon" thing all over again. If they don't sort this out in July's issue the fandom will just explode. Or worse if they make another 360 degrees move and just chage something that was already established. 

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    • Well genetically, I don't think Zuko was ever Ozai's son. As we know so far, Firelord Azulon wanted Ursa (who is a descendant of Avatar Roku) to marry his son Ozai in order to create a master breed of firebenders (this was why Azula was gifted with blue firebending and Zuko wasn't.)

      Just Something to think about.

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    • Perhaps, but genetics isn't an exact science when your talking "bloodlines". Zuko may have just gotten a few bad alleles, probably from his mother's side considering she wasn't even a firebender. Besides, he was a plenty powerful firebender in his own right, even more powerful than his sister in the end.

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    • If Azula wasn't all crazy and messed up she would be and even greater firebender than she now is. Zuko is powerful but I won't go that far saying he is more powerful than Azula. they're both equal if you ask me. 

      As for genetics , I thought of one thing.

      If Roku is inded his grandfather then Zuko might be more alike to him than he knows.

      Sure he was the Avatar and all that but in the flashbacks with him and Sozin we see them firebending. They seem equal but it might be just me but Sozin seems the more powerful firebending here even though it comes from rage he is still powerful. Roku was too but something tells me he preffered airbending the most and was really gifted at it. 

      Or maybe I'm just bluffing

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    • Azula seems the most gifted and skilled firebender in the series. Keep in mind that never is she defeated while fully sane or singlehandely. Her two friends cought her by complete surprise, and Katara managed to use Azula's mental instability against her.

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    • Actually, if Zuko had faced Azula without Katara, he probably would have defeated her. Azula was able to immobilize Zuko because he tried desperately to protect Katara.

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    • You also have to remember that she had just lost her mind and was in a psychotic episode, so of course Zuko would be able to ovepower her in her lack of concentration. Every other time in which they faced one on one she was completely composed and beat him every time.

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    • Zuko had also been a rage filled novice every other time. By the final duel, he had mastered an entirely new firebending form and realized the true nature of his bending art, as well as learned a subset of bending that his sister had never mastered, while Azula never really improved. She kind of just coasted on her skills and never tried to innovate.

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    • Ok, look I've been reading these comments. And I think we're all making a quick assumption, an assumption that the writers (I believe) want us to make. And that assumption is that Ursa is DEAD. Where or when did the Avatar series or in Part 1 did it say she was dead? The answer, nowhere. And I think that because they haven't mentioned it before through their series or Part 1 must lead to the fact that she is in fact not dead. As for her whereabouts or condition I haven't got that far but I'm more than sure that she is indeed NOT dead. But, on a side note, I do feel that it was no mistake that her name is Ursa.

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    • It is a possibility, true enough, though Zuko's constant searching revealing no trace of Ursa may be a bit telling.

      I'm guessing the name Ursa is more of an indication of a protective nature, as we saw with her relation with Zuko, rather than a great resiliance or strength.

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    • what does her being dead or alive have anything to do with the ID of zuko's dad?

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    • The Air Nomad Critic wrote:
      From what I have read, it is an odd spirit indeed: a marked wolf that coughs up killer moths. That said, this is a spirit we are talking about, they have been known to take multiple shapes every now and again, as we see with Hei Bai.

      My guess is that it is indeed the spirit of Ursa. Agents loyal to the previous Fire Lord found out what she did, tracked her down, and slew her. Thus far, her spirit has been silently watching out for her children, often in dreams and hallucinations. Now that Zuko and Azula are digging up things that should not be unearthed, she has taken a more feral form to try to discourage them from going any further, fearful of what her children may discover about her past.

      Or, alternatively, Ikem is a shaman who has summoned the beast in order to dispell the young adventurers, for he himself may have murdered Ursa himself upon her return to the island after being banished (her letters never got to him, so he was probably stewing in his resentment for years), and wants to cover things up.

      Shit, this would've really cool if it had happened.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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