Skip to table of contents | |
---|---|
This is the talk page for the article "Ran and Shaw".
This article is currently rated C-class on the Avatar Wiki grading system. |
Untitled[]
How is Ran's name spelled? Is it Ran or Raan?
As far as fan translations go, it's Ran, don't worry, it has been thoroughly discussed. And remember to sign your messages in Talk pages with four tildes. Omnibender 00:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- As pointed out by User:Thatother1dude, while the closed caption displays the name as "Shao", Nick's site displays it as "Shaw". I usually side with site information, which for me is more easily verifiable. Those for and against renaming the article? Omnibender 15:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Closed caption usually always spells the names wrong for me Felinoel 20:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Does the spelling "Shaw" mean anything in Chinese? Because, if not, I think nick.com may be wrong. According to the trivia: "Shao (燒, shāo) means "to burn" or "to cook", as well as "fever"." It seems very likely to me, given the Chinese and Asian influence on the show, that the spelling with a Chinese or Asian meaning would be the one the creators chose. But I could be wrong.Puragus 21:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- That makes sense to me as well, but we have seen some approximations. Take Katara's name for example. It's Ka-ta-ra, but in the characters for her name translate as Ka-ta-la. Maybe it is ok to move the page after all. Omnibender 22:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, if it's the same word, and same inherent meaning, with either spelling, then I guess we'd better go with how nick.com spells it. But maybe we'd better get someone who knows mandarin before we do anything definite.Puragus 22:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- So... does anyone know Mandarin? Where is TLane? I remember he used to translate the characters' names to Mandarin. Omnibender 22:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- lol yea, on my user page the characters I have that spell felinoel actaully spell ferinoeru, its the closest I could find Felinoel 22:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC
Question[]
We have different articles for Tui and La, so why not for Ran and Shao? Kai 14:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Cause Tui and La have enough info to distinguish between the two of them, and they things happened differently for them (one died, other fused with Aang, one was restored by Yue sacrifice, one drowned Zhao...). We don't even know which one is Ran and which one is Shao. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:42, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Nicely said Omni. Zero - Talk 16:27, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Re Dragons...
"Ran and Shao are two ancient dragons, revered by the Sun Warriors as the original masters of Firebending. One of them is red and the other is blue, although it is not clear which is which. They appeared together in "The Firebending Masters".
Which is which or who is who (which is red or who is Ran? - Maybe me , maybe semantics. It should perhaps state "which is Ran and which is Shao"
Further thoughts.... [1] having stopped the action on youtube [2] at 2.23 the blue dragon clearly has four toes(I never checked the red dragon). Four toes being associated with Korean dragons. The red and blue dragons I believe represent Yin and Yang which again leads us back to Korean history. The yin/yang symbol - [3] was established some centuries before the Chinese adopted it. Incidentally the red and blue in the Korean Flag representing heaven and earth respectively.
Clearly a mix of Korean/Chinese culture. Summary. It all amounts to trivia about mythical creatures in a fictional tale. You may care to add this as trivia or not - I thought it was worth running up your flag pole, a mention in dispatches so to speak. --Piandao 09:53, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry to be annoying, but I'd like to make a fact correction; yin and yang originated in China, not Korea. Yin and yang first appeared as a concept in China far before Korea was even unified. Trust me to know my native history. Yin and yang is important to both, true, but as the Wikipedia article and various other widely accepted sources report, the concept definitely originated in China. However, you are right in saying that Korean dragons have four toes. Chinese dragons have five. The 888th Avatar (Talk) 10:12, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Agreeing on the origin of yin and yang, however I was bringing to attention (or tying) the symbolic references - the taijitu which appeared in Korea before China. However we are discussing an American production of a Japanese genre using Chinese influences which I have only watched in Dutch. All in all; some margin of error and some doubts creep in. My intention is not to tear holes in what is a well woven fabric and generally awesome creation. Kind regards --Piandao 18:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Music...[]
In the music track that often plays when Zuko/Blue Spirit is swordfighting, I hear chanting that vaguely sounds like "Ran Shao Ran Shao Ran Shao" repeated over and over. The instance that comes most readily to mind is in "City of Walls and Secrets" during the Zuko/Jet fight. Is it just me, or do other people think it sounds like that? --MadCat221 04:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Shao or Shaw?[]
I've been reading the art book, and it lists the dragons as "Ran and Shaw" and not as "Ran and Shao".
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s33/hakuna_matata3713/1-6.png
And if I'm not mistaken, I believe that Shaw is also the way they spelled it in the extras. Though I realize that the extras are not the most reliable sources of information, they do support the art book, and that is 2 against 1 (I don't even know where "Shao" came from in the first place).
It seems as if nick's site referred to the dragon as "Shaw" as well.
Vote below on whether to change it to "Shaw" or keep it at "Shao".
Support — Water Spout tаlk • blog 03:13, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
Support — If it says "Shaw" in the book,which was written by Bryke,then we should change the name to Shaw.Chapreyes (talk • contribs) 03:19, December 30, 2010 (UTC)Chapreyes
Support — As per above. 1stAvatar (talk • contribs) 03:20, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
Support — Renatabls 14:02, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
Neutral — Read the first part of the talk page. Dcasawang1 - Talk 14:06, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion was: |
---|
Name changed. No comments for 3 days. |
Please do not edit this discussion. |
Color[]
A general note to those who want to add the dragons' color using this storyboard as source: It is impossible to identify the dragons based on this, as trying to use their relative positions to indicate their colors produces contradictory conclusions based on the relative viewpoint of the scene and which point in the episode is shown. For example, RubbleRubble argued that the storyboard shows Ran as red and Shaw as blue one, but I would actually have said that it is the opposite.
In addition, as pointed out in the artbooks, the coloration of the episodes often did not follow the storyboards, so it possible that even if the storyboards intended for certain colors, these were not reflected in the canon. DyingFlameTsui (wall • contribs) 11:18, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- In that case, I would add the source for a note or trivia, explaining what you said, and stating that it is impossible to know for sure. Dcasawang1 • wall 11:31, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Perhaps trivia is the best section then. However I don't understand what you mean by 'contradictory information', nor how it's 'impossible to identify', the names are there. Do you mean the colours are inconsistent in the show? Nor how it opens up argument for 'the opposite'. Anyways, I do understand the argument about storyboarding. You're right, probably shouldn't go off temporary material as cannon. RubbleRubble (wall • contribs) 22:06, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- I meant that when you watch the episode, there are perspective changes, i.e., the dragons are seen from the viewpoint of the Sun Warriors and from the other side as well. In addition, they change their positions relative to each other due to their flight pattern. Now, if we look at the storyboard: Is it possible to say from which side we actually look at the scene and at which point in the episode? We do not see the mountains in the three initial storyboard panels; without those, I do not think one can identify the viewpoint and thus the colors. Hope this makes it a bit more clear. And I agree; the trivia proposal is a good one. DyingFlameTsui (wall • contribs) 00:53, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- I believe this topic has been put forward on account of this video, which also makes use of this storyboard. In the video, there are a few more comparisons between the storyboard and actual episode screenshots. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:20, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- I meant that when you watch the episode, there are perspective changes, i.e., the dragons are seen from the viewpoint of the Sun Warriors and from the other side as well. In addition, they change their positions relative to each other due to their flight pattern. Now, if we look at the storyboard: Is it possible to say from which side we actually look at the scene and at which point in the episode? We do not see the mountains in the three initial storyboard panels; without those, I do not think one can identify the viewpoint and thus the colors. Hope this makes it a bit more clear. And I agree; the trivia proposal is a good one. DyingFlameTsui (wall • contribs) 00:53, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Perhaps trivia is the best section then. However I don't understand what you mean by 'contradictory information', nor how it's 'impossible to identify', the names are there. Do you mean the colours are inconsistent in the show? Nor how it opens up argument for 'the opposite'. Anyways, I do understand the argument about storyboarding. You're right, probably shouldn't go off temporary material as cannon. RubbleRubble (wall • contribs) 22:06, 20 November 2021 (UTC)