Talk:Lion Turtle

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Contents 1 Character design question 2 Oldest and largest(not tallest) animal 3 Speeches by Lion Turtle 4 Spirit box? 5 "energybending, an ability that only Avatars possess" 6 Island 7 First appearance 8 Chanting heard when the lion turtle appears 9 Touch or tough? 10 Location 11 About the Great Lion Turtle

[edit] Character design question

Design based off of a Yu-Gi-Oh monster? Island Turtle? --Xparasite9 02:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

dought it,avatars preety original with there animals The bloodbender666 05:19, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

The avatar creators would not base there wonderful animals after a to-bit half wanna be anime peace of crap (sorry to those who like that show I just think it sold out) ~ Daniel 08:17, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Not at all, as with Dragons, turtles are one of the main Chinese mythology creatures, I think it's the one associated with south. Also the Lion Turtle has appeared in other places as well, always mythology, though I can't pinpoint which. Just look it up at Wikipedia.

I remember hearing a mythology of the world being on the back of a giant turtle, and I remember it from different societies, this might be based off of that Felinoel 18:28, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it's from Hinduism - that a great turtle or tortoise holds up the elephant that holds up the earth. Cryptblade 03:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

it held up earth,not some random world,the avatar tecknically is the spirit of the earth,on his back,so that relationship could work The bloodbender666 05:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

What? Felinoel 05:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

NVM The bloodbender666 05:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Anyways as I was saying this creature is based off an old legend, or myth, does anyone recognize at least what society its from? Felinoel 05:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

there are several instances of this creation myth, another case is from the Iroquois, "The World on the Turtle's Back" --Xparasite9 22:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you then Felinoel 01:50, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Oldest and largest(not tallest) animal

aang said it was the biggest animal,it may not be as tall as the sea serpent,but in mass i thinks it's pretty big,and i think they live forever (or at least close) since it knew information that existed before the start of the avatar and bending elements all together,ideas?

The bloodbender666 05:19, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Lifetimes are pretty long regardless of species in the Avatar 'verse, it may only seem like the LT has lived forever but its more likely it just has a very long lifespan felinoel ~ (Talk) 20:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speeches by Lion Turtle

p1 The True Mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost.
The True Heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed.
Since beginningless time, Darkness thrives in the void
but always yields to purifying Light.

p2 In the Era before the Avatar.
We bent - not the Elements - but the Energy within ourselves.

To bend another's Energy.
Your own spirit must be unbendable, or you will be corrupted and destroyed.

I know what I put is slightly different from the Spiritbending page. "Weather" is used as a condition as defined 'face and withstand with courage'. "Whether" is when you are discussing two or more alternatives. Then the line would be changed to "A True Mind can not be lost, Whether its to lies or illusions"

he is definitely saying "Since" not "From".

its the P2 that should be included on the Spiritbending page or the Lion Turtle page itself. Since it is important to Benders and Avatars (Unicogirl 22:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC))

"The True Mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost." is the correct way to write this. "Weather" has climate meanings and action meanings. Weather can mean "to withstand" as in "to weather a storm" or "withstand a storm". "Whether" is comparative. The Lion Turtle's lines means that a true mind can withstand lies and illusions without being lost.Cryptblade 03:44, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Cryptblade is correct. I agree with him. Zero 05:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

^_^;; thats what i just put! he just repeated what i typed lol. the first time it was written on the page someone typed "Whether" not "Weather". So thats why i was suggesting the change to "Weather" (Unicogirl 06:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC))

rewatching with Captions...hmm either we are wrong, or the caption is. these are the changes. "The True Heart can tough the poison of hatred without being HARD" and the last line "but always yields to PURIFY RIGHT"(Unicogirl 00:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC))

The captions are VERY wrong, you can hear what he says perfectly. Omnibender 00:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Besides the Book also says it the right way which is not what the captions say. - Zero - Talk 07:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spirit box?

I thought about adding a spirit box for the lion turtle, but I felt it wasn't appropriate considering it isn't a spirit, like koh or Hei Bai. Maybe there should be a creature box created?--70.110.37.252 20:53, 27 July 2008 (UTC) The spirit box is also used for characters whose nationalities aren't clear, most notably Guru Pathik. Creatures usually have the character info box of their nation of origin: Appa is Air Nomad, Nyla is Earth Kingdom, Hawky is Fire Nation. Omnibender 21:00, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't talk about that for Pathik =b Since you are making all these boxes you can make a neutral one of purple color for Pathik, like neutral locations... =b

Also I like the creature inforbox idea, maybe brown? Felinoel 03:07, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there's a need for a creature template, the only creatures which I believe to be worth putting an infobox are animal characters, specific creatures, like Fang, Sozin's Dragon, Ran and Shao, Appa, Momo, Hawky, at the very most the Foo Foo Cuddlypoofs. We can use regular character infobox templates, which helps identify them and at the same time tells us the "origin" of the animal, which Nation fauna it is part of. Omnibender 21:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Yea, and we don't even have pictures of some creatures, like the snail sloths, which I was going to make an article for soon Felinoel 01:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "energybending, an ability that only Avatars possess"

But the Lion Turtle said they energybended all the time before the Avatar even existed, and doesn't the Lion Turtle energybend Aang? Felinoel 04:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

In a certain form, yes, he "bended" him the ability to use it...

Another thing, though: The sentence First seen in Sozins Comet, Pt......, is actually not correct. It's first seen in Wan Shi Tongs Library. I know, it's just a picture of it, but it's first seen and named there. Aresius, Freelance writer 23:08;12.08.20,08 (CEST)

So that statement should be reworded because that Lion Turtle has shown no signs towards being an Avatar, and yes good catch with the library Felinoel 21:13, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Nicely corrected Zero felinoel ~ (Talk) 16:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

What? What'd I do now? Zero - Talk 17:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

You added a single word to fix a problem, I was having trouble thinking of how to fix it without making it too lengthy felinoel ~ (Talk) 02:39, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh that. No problem. Thanks. Zero - Talk 06:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

What bugs me more is the following part, saying that former Avatars may also know and even have used energybending. I thought that Aang was the first at all? Who told that there were previous Avatars to know and utilise this bending form? -Aresius, Freelance Writer, 23:24; 10.10.20,08

Nick.com, it usually gives background info on characters, locations and things in general. Omnibender - Talk 22:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but i Didn't find any info on nick.com about the lionturtle. --93.193.63.203 16:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Go to the finale episode pages, section Gear and More, in one of them there's the Lion Turtle entry. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:49, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

As it say "before the avatar..." this may imply that the element bending was introduced to replace energy bending, or to let the population allow only this weaker form of bending. That also means that there is a special person to be installed that has more power, that is the avatar who bends all the four elements. Actually it looks like no avatar was able to bend energy. Otherwise it would be unnecessary for him/her to bend (or learn to bend) the elements of their own. By the way, either the situation of one king extincts other nations completely (which have not appeared before) or the possibility of Aang being the last or pre-last Avatar justifies the re-introduction of energy bending. Why Aang being the last or pre-last avatar? Look at book 1 ep 3 (southern air temple) where the avatars were lined up in a spiral row with spece left only for one avatar (Aang) or maybe two. User: asuan

I don't believe any avatar had ever learned to energy bend before Aang. Also, I believe it is important to note that the energy bending power referred not to just any sort of energy, but the energy of another life. It could be called "Life energy bending". So to say that energy bending could encompass all element bending is not correct. An energy bender would still need to learn to bend elements. An energy bender could exist who didn't know how to bend elements. Life energy bending however, was a far greater power, and had a much greater danger of self corruption. It was also a much more destructive tool to use on the life of another person, for it could conceivably take there energy away, not just part, but all.

No other avatar had a knowledge of this power, as evidenced in Ruku's warning that if Aang didn't destroy the Phoenix King before the comet came, the phoenix king would be too strong to stop, even by the avatar. Ruku obviously had absolutely no knowledge of the power to energy bend, or he wouldn't have issued such a warning, he would have instead told Aang to master energy bending first and foremost. This brings up another question: Does anyone think that the ability to energy bend might augment the other bending abilities? What if all the elements have life, and therefore energy?

The Lion Turtle says that "Before the avatars we bent energy". First, the Lion Turtle is the only creature in the series who can talk, and second, he's a creature who had been alive since BEFORE the very first avatar had ever been created, third, had a knowledge of capabilities that went far beyond even those of every avatar who had ever existed before!, and fourth, was able to quickly and efficiently pass to Aang (whether you want to call that bending to Aang or not) the ability to do the same. This does in no way mean that Aang must therefore be the last or next to last avatar. It simply means Aang asked for something no other avatar wanted, which was the ability to stop the Phoenix King without killing him. No other avatar had wanted such a power. Aang did. No other avatar understood his desire. The Lion Turtle did.--Mediamirror 01:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC) PS Sorry so long.

[edit] Island

why does it have an island on the back of the lion turtle?

See Cultural depictions of turtles and tortoises. Omnibender 17:55, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, so it can go around the world avoiding death by hunters. Camouflage. Zero - Talk 12:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess thats a possible reason felinoel ~ (Talk) 19:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

See the description on Nick. It says, more or less, the same thing. Zero - Talk 05:17, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First appearance

in the box, it says the turtle's first appearance is sozin's comet part 1. But didn't aang find a picture of a lion turtle in the library? Alex101313 - Talk 31 August 2008 (UTC)

He did. I guess that might qualify as a cameo appearance. What do other people think? Puragus - Talk 20:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Does it? All other character I can think of have their appearances either as the actual appearance, flashback, cameo (Azula in Agni Kai flashback for example) or mention, that last one I think just characters who remained unseen. Omnibender - Talk 00:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I guess it depends if the article is about the lion turtle species or the lion turtle aang meets in sozin's comet. Alex101313 - Talk 14:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Since we don't know it's name, we can't make a separated page for it, as it was done for Dragons and Fang, Ran and Shao, and Sozin's Dragon. Omnibender - Talk 00:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chanting heard when the lion turtle appears

I have been looking for the original song that contains this chanting "Na Mo A Mi Tuo Fo Shin Di" but couldn't find anything yet. If some one knows a song with this chanting as in avatar please tell me (ryanvkes@hotmail.com) thx

I don't know where the "Shin Di" came from, but "Na Mo A Mi Tuo Fo" (南無阿彌陀佛) appears to be from Da Bei Chan Fa (大悲懺法), and translates as "Blessed be Amitabha Buddha"

Yes, that is right, but I don't know where Shin Di came from either. Someone find out. 888th Avatar ^{- Talk - Contributions} 08:59, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I have found shindo in Japanese meaning 'guidance by the heart' but cannot find the translation Shin Di in Chinese (Joekate89@aol.com)

[edit] Touch or tough?

In the part of the Lion Turtle's quote that goes "The true heart can touch the poison of hatred without being harmed", is the word touch or tough? I can't tell, and users have changed it between the two numerous times. Perhaps there are quote sources such as TV.com that could give us the answer? --Energybender 00:59, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Avatarspirit.net says touch, and I am inclined to agree. "Touch" makes more sense than "Tough". The 888th Avatar ^{- Talk} 01:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Its touch. - Zero - Talk 05:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm certain it's tough. to tough something means to endure it. the true heart can endure hatred. touch makes sense too but i don't think that's what he says. one could argue that in a literal sense one cannot touch hatred but can endure it. but i don't think being literal will help with a character who speaks in quasi-metaphors. regardless, answers.com says tough (as a phrasal verb) = "To carry on through despite hardships: endure." -frank

okay i just remembered he says the POISON of hatred, not hatred itself. still one can endure being poisoned. -frank

Most people hear "touch", I've not seen many people supporting "tough", ergo our choice for "touch". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:34, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Location

Could the lion turtle also be a location because of his island sized back?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaznock (talk • contribs) 01:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

No, it is a living creature that can move freely and is not a permanent location. Alex^Talk 03:10, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Why couldn't Aang be found while he was on the Turtle's back? No on could find him. He could not be sniffed out, which meant he didn't exist during that time. Has anyone figured out the reason why? --Mediamirror 01:29, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

The interview in the Sozin's Comet book says that because it is so old, the Lion Turtle smells just like the planet, so his "world" smell masked Aang's. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] About the Great Lion Turtle

Hello, sorry for recently joining. I just watch the last Sozin Comet this afternoon, and i am very interested of the Great Lion Turtle.

As soon as i finish watching i remembered my Ancient Javanese class (i graduated from Javanese Literature Course University of Indonesia). Once my lecturer explain to me an ancient Hindu myth of Anumrta (The Water of Immortality). The first part tells that at that time the land was still carried by a Giant Turtle (the name is Akupara, you can see it in Wikipedia: List of Legendary Creatures). Then in order to gain Anumrta, The Gods told Akupara to drill the center of the Great Sea. During the drilling then the world (that we know with many lands) was created. How? When Akupara drill the center until it bottom, it said the drill was so strong that it blow out all the creatures and land that creates the world now.

Refering to what the Giant Lion Turtle lines in Avatar, which is

"In the Era before the Avatar, We bent - not the Elements - but the Energy within ourselves, To bend another's Energy, Your own spirit must be unbendable, or you will be corrupted and destroyed.

then i guess the Avatar creator take this Akupara as the background.

1. Era before the Avatar. If Avatar is a human that have extraordinary skill (Element and/or Energy Bending), than the Giant Lion Turtle words mean an Era before human are exist, which mean there are only God and The Creature. But it could be interpreted also as an Era before human such as Avatar exist, which mean there are God, The Creature, and common human. If its related to the Anumrta and Elements and/or Energy Bending, it quite logic. Anumrta is a water that make someone who drink it (open interpretation) become immortal = unlimited Energy. Akupara was assigned by Gods to find Anumrta. After he find it then someone must have drink it, Avatar should be one of it.

2. Have one of you played Final Fantasy VII? In the game the world was explained to Cloud as an immortal and unlimited spirit or energy, recharged by spirit die and live. Now, do you remember the Big Bang Theory? Universe was created from a small than becoming bigger turning space dust. Was it The Space that was actually being drill by Akupara? Space actually is a Great Sea of darkness. Remember what the creature said

"Since beginningless time, Darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying Light."

Then, are we all but an energy that was bend (drilling is making a hole = bending a surface) by Akupara?

Akhdian Toro

61.247.26.175 18:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

the chanting that is heard when the avatar is energybending the phoenix king what is it called. is it the same when the lion turtle appears.

Don't know what it's called, but someone once pointed out that it has a connection to Buddhism I think. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:31, 28 August 2009 (UTC)