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  • Thanks for your input on my post about Ran and Shao. I learned some new stuff, which is always fun.

    My whole idea of making the thread anyway was mainly to eliminate the dilema of which dragon would be male as opposed to female. In my mind, having both dragons be the same sex just makes things easier.

    Although, rolling back to the hermaphrodite thing real quick, don't most hermaphrodites have a "dominant" sex, so to speak? Like, a male that just also happens to have female reproductive organs and vice versa? It's a bit trickier with animal species other than humans, I know, but that was the idea I had in my head when I offered up the possibility.

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    • It's what I do, & it was definitely more interesting than a lot of threads we get around here. I think of the question of Ran's & Shaw's sexes as more of an idle curiosity. Like I said, I think 1 is probably male & the other is female, but I'm not really burning to figure out which is which.

      Human "hermaphrodites" aren't really true hermaphrodites--intersex is a better term. These are more disorders in sexual development that lead to incomplete reproductive tracts, like internal testicles, or an improperly fused penis. A lot of these also result in infertility. Plants & some animals have complete sets of both sexual organs, & thus are equally capable of reproducing as males or females.

      Biology is a favored subject of mine, so I'm usually down to discuss it when it comes up on the forums--though, for the time being, I'm going to attempt sleep--but I'm not exactly an expert. I went to Wikipedia to check how things like temperature-determined sex differentiation work. Those subjects don't really come up a lot, unless you take a specialized course in college, or something.

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    • Ah, makes sense. Thanks again. I should probably sleep, as well. >.>

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    • An anonymous contributor
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  • Okay so Mako Fanboy got all mad and huffy and deleted the thread we were posting in. I moved the conversation to another thread because well, why not? Not that it's really important, I just don't like giving a Mako Stan the final word on anything because fuck them lol...

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    • I only read that part because the transparent flattery caught my eye, & I just had to see it in context. I ache so badly to rip apart the Dr. Phil of philosophy.

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    • Lol yeah I bet....this is why I think people like Mako Fanboy are best ignored entirely...

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    • An anonymous contributor
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  • Why isn't Young Justice on that list?

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Did you get curious when my page presumably popped up in the recent edits area? I recall making a few changes recently, after I binged like half a season of Adam Ruins Everything & also realized I forgot to cross a few movies out.

      That's right.

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    • Neat. Well, nice chatting with you.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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  • Did you see TaiWolf's meltdown in that thread?  If he keeps bugging me, I'm going to schedule a safari.

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    Neo Bahamut
    Neo Bahamut closed this thread because:
    Holy shit, did you know I can just close threads?
    00:53, August 4, 2017
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    • Deist Zealot wrote:

      Well, that was certainly an impressive pack of lies.

      Seriously: the only thing that was anywhere near the truth in that flood of accusations is the fact that I have used the word "rabid" a few times. Which, as you know as well as I do, was not aimed at "critics," but at the sort of people who were calling Korrasami either coded shit like "fanservice" and "pandering" or overt shit like "sexual immorality." (But then again: you defended that last, demanded that I explain to you why bigotry shouldn't be defended, and snippily brushed off my answer.)

      Condemning Korrasami as fanservice or pandering is criticism, and honest criticism. Given its poor viewer base, something as controversial as Korrasami is great shock value to start a conversation and reel old fans back in, as well as to intrigue new fans. The case can easily be made that the pairing was done to humor a segment of the fan base that wanted it and procure a "groundbreaking" status among children's tv productions (literally; Vanity Fair termed it, breaking ground). The fact that you think it's coded shows your insecurity.

      Your compass needs a new magnet if you think my accusations are imaginary.

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    • Piss off, TaiWolf, & go peddle your homophobic conspiracy theory somewhere else.

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  • Hi! Im new at this wiki and sets a challenge to whoever replies or interacts with me first, excluding the intro bot, i should try to reach out to them! And its you! Yes its me from the debate. We may have different opinions but i hope it wont get in the way!

    Nice to meet you! It may seems awkward but ohwell, who are your favorite characters and why? U can answer in both series too! Thanks! Nice knowing you, Neo! :D

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    • =D *

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    • You can edit comments you've already made by clicking on the "more" button that appears at the bottom right of them.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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  • Why do you want Kuvira to die?

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    • Wow, you replied. I'm touched. Sincerely, not sarcastically.

      Dialogue with people is, like, what the internet is for nowadays. No need to be condescending about it (if you weren't trying to be, apologies). I admit it's nice to hear you have some backbone to your desires, however belligerent they seem to me. Also I'm glad you thought that splurge was planned, but this one isn't either.

      Yes, Zuko didn't become a dictator or make prison camps, and yes, both Kuvira and Zaheer deserve to die, but unfortunately for you, they're in the custody of the United Republic, the nation founded by Avatar Aang, the monk who had nightmares about killing Fire Lord Ozai, one of the cruelest rulers in recent Avatar history. If he thinks Ozai shouldn't be treated like a dog, a man that scarred his own son just to "teach him lesson," and wouldn't even want a man like Zaheer killed after what he did to Korra, I do not see why Kuvira should die either. Not to mention she started off with an actually helpful cause, and actually DID help with that cause. She deserves credit for that accomplishment at least. 

      To say two people's mistakes are irrelevant to compare is just a cop out. Face the comparison, however disturbing. Force through it. A mistake is a mistake. A theft, a lie, a murder, a rape, they're all terrible, they all hurt people. Why pardon one but not all? Why be gray about it NOW? Either punish them all or rectify them all.

      "Ozai and Zaheer only are alive for information." Geez, that's awfully grim. I mean they can certainly provide much insight, but Ozai being Zuko's father must've had SOME sway. And Zaheer willingly choosing to help fix the very girl he once tried to kill at whatever cost is pretty admirable too. Korra did trust him to help her. She SAID she didn't, but she still chose to mediate with him. He's the one that pulled her into the Spirit World. That scene wouldn't have even happened if she really hated him that much.

      Calling Kuvira's life a "drain on society" is just as grim and nihilistic, saddening really. You seem like you have a lot on your shoulders. (You also prefer to capitalize "Hell." Intriguing.)

      There are few like Kuvira. There are few that can look past theirselves at their mistakes and actually surrender themselves. Like, she surrendered, gave herself up. Don't you realize how significant that is? Most in her situation would end up getting killed by their own hubris. She almost did! Korra could've let her die easily, but there is quite literally nothing anyone would gain from that. Kuvira herself chose to surrender. That's monumental. Furthermore, she most definitely hates what she did, and she would deny her supporters even if it meant her death. The possibility of her relapsing and, what, becoming a dictator again? Is extremely not very high. She could've run away from being handcuffed, but she didn't. She stood there and let herself be led away by her own hateful adoptive mother, took her harsh words silently even after she just apologized to her. "I'll accept whatever punishment the world sees fit" and, "I'm sorry for all the pain I've caused you and your family" were not jests. She'd help destabilize the extremists that still want to support the Empire if people would just let her. And even if her relapsing is THAT true a concern, she's so pathetic and broken after what Korra did with her she could easily rein her back in again. She's a child...a child that's knowledgable in every aspect of the Earth Kingdom.

      And yes yES YES EXACTLY Kuvira and the Great Uniter are two COMPLETELY different people! Vastly different personalities! I'm glad you realize that! It's like Noatak vs. Amon! Or Azula vs. Azula when she went insane! Tragedy does terrible things to people. Kuvira became so hardened because she's actually incredibly vulnerable. She knew the only way to fix the Earth Kingdom was to be hard, it's just that unfortunately she forgot to "switch back" and just kept going with it, 'cause she liked the power, 'cause she's never felt power, because she's an orphan. Why lack sympathy? Also yeah woops, another guard did end up joining in the fight with her. But she chose to initiate that fight and fought 'til she was incapacitated. Another admirable accomplishment.

      The fact that she's a dancer and could be scared by her own mug's clank (actually knew a girl like that once) are examples of humanization, to show she's a human person, with a personality. It's like Zaheer being in a romantic relationship with P'Li instead of her being just his pawn or something. It's unexepected and unecessary, but nice to know that that aspect of them is there. Makes them a bit more maleable. A story of nothing but slates blabbing out their idealogies (like the Great Uniter is) isn't going to rope in as much investment.

      And yeah, I've actually recently become quite nettled that Unalaq was killed so incidentally. Shocking, right? People say he's a pathetic and boring antagonist (admittedly used to share that opinion), but I've realized he's almost exactly like Loki from Marvel. He's got that whole "dejected young brother seeking revenge by fixing the older's mistakes to seem worthwhile for once" thing, mixed with the personality and grandeur of the High Elves from Skyrim or something. A lot of Avatar antagonists were admittedly lazily left to the curb or killed, but, at least they all had the oppurtunity for a second chance if they would've just taken it. Zuko tried to save Admiral Zhao back in his angry phase, Katara spared Yon Rha and Azula when she easily could've killed them, and Hakoda threw the Boiling Rock's warden back into the gondola, instead of say over the edge and of the cliff and into the Boiling Lake itself. Were the writers to suddenly turn Avatar into some dark malicious crusade for death, I'd be quite shocked, berieved actually, because that's not what it's been from the start. "Anybody is capable of great good or great evil." Just look at Sokka. He's a scornful, self-centered, unsympathetic jerk...during The Boy in the Iceburg: Part 1. Him dying would've only been waste. He proved to have much more to offer than that. By the end of Avatar, he risked and learned and grew so much. Just like Korra did. Just like Kuvira can.

      Would've replied to you earlier, but I've been dealing with PTSD for the past few months. It peaked back up again for me. That's not a pity move to try to sway you or an excuse, just an explanation. Mock me for that too if you must, you unfortunately appear to be in need all the catharsis you can get. I'm worried. You really do seem like you have a lot on your shoulders. 

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    • Wow, you replied. I'm touched. Sincerely, not sarcastically.

      Enjoy it while it lasts, as judging from the trajectory here, I won't be doing it a 3rd time. In fact, I'm just going to condense my response to the "Greatest Hits," if you will.

      Dialogue with people is, like, what the internet is for nowadays. No need to be condescending about it (if you weren't trying to be, apologies).

      If the first words out of your mouth are calling what I said "vapid & immature," I don't want to hear any whining about my rebuttal being "condescending."

      Calling Kuvira's life a "drain on society" is just as grim and nihilistic, saddening really. You seem like you have a lot on your shoulders. (You also prefer to capitalize "Hell." Intriguing.) (You also prefer to capitalize "Hell." Intriguing.)

      As far as I can tell, that is the grammatically correct thing to do, since it refers to a proper noun. Anyway, you seem to mistake your personal distaste for something as an argument against it. Yes, it is overall bad for society to have someone around who is a murderer several times over, a backstabbing fascist dictator, a xenophobic slaver, & a warmongerer who almost destroyed the very city that now houses her worthless ass, leading to hundreds of people becoming homeless. And those are just the crimes that we know of. I don't really give a shit what Aang's opinion would be. Also, I don't know her exact age, but she is clearly an adult.

      Korra could've let her die easily, but there is quite literally nothing anyone would gain from that.

      In fact, you have it exactly backwards, there was a lot to lose in saving Kuvira, & nothing to gain. Korra had no idea what was going to happen when she stepped in front of that beam. She risked the very real possibility of her own death, which is one thing, but as the Avatar & in a time of crisis, it would've been an unmitigated disaster if she had died & Kuvira was able to keep the war going. Whether through death or surrender, Kuvira was about to be defeated, & her army would've fallen in disarray shortly afterward.

      She'd help destabilize the extremists that still want to support the Empire if people would just let her. And even if her relapsing is THAT true a concern, she's so pathetic and broken after what Korra did with her she could easily rein her back in again.

      You know what I've realized? You are Harley Quinn. You won't shoot up a hospital, but you'll gladly open the cell door for the guy who HAS done that. Just as long as you've heard enough sob stories about his childhood. You'll say he's obviously gone straight, & even if he has trouble doing the right thing, it couldn't be THAT bad. Dr. Qinzel is a cautionary tale about what happens when you sympathize with villains too much, & stop seeing them as villains. Namely, you become one of the villains yourself. Don't be Harley Quinn. Arguing against the death penalty is one thing, but you take it into the territory of dangerous naivete when you essentially want criminals to be put right back into the very situation that started that mess.

      And yes yES YES EXACTLY Kuvira and the Great Uniter are two COMPLETELY different people! Vastly different personalities! I'm glad you realize that! It's like Noatak vs. Amon! Or Azula vs. Azula when she went insane!

      You shouldn't be, because that's not a good thing, it's a sign of how horribly written she is. It is most definitely not the same as Noatak & Amon, or Azula, they actually had character arcs showing in detail the transition in their personalities.

      Also yeah woops, another guard did end up joining in the fight with her. But she chose to initiate that fight and fought 'til she was incapacitated. Another admirable accomplishment.

      This is clearly a man, stop trying to credit her with something she didn't even do.

      The fact that she's a dancer and could be scared by her own mug's clank (actually knew a girl like that once) are examples of humanization, to show she's a human person, with a personality.

      They're lazy shortcuts that someone with low standards would confuse for giving a character a personality, but actually aren't. Especially since you're completely full of shit about the mug. Zaheer & P'Li are on the right track, but they're barely any better in this regard. Look, developing a character takes time & effort, it's something that must be continually established by showing a broad range of reactions & opinions. If you think character depth can be achieved by just dropping in the occasional reference to a hobby or background detail, you're only fooling yourself.

      Would've replied to you earlier, but I've been dealing with PTSD for the past few months. It peaked back up again for me. That's not a pity move to try to sway you or an excuse, just an explanation. Mock me for that too if you must, you unfortunately appear to be in need all the catharsis you can get.

      See, that's what you just don't get. That would make sense in your warped world, where nuance isn't allowed, anyone who ever does anything good ever is instantly absolved of any misdeeds, & the most heinous of war criminals should be held to the same standard as not only petty thieves, but even teenagers who are just kind of obnoxious. But when you live in reality, where it's not viewed as a "cop out" to judge things on a case-by-case basis, it makes it possible to have standards.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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  • Excellent defense of Korra there mate

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  • How OK is it considered to edit information on the Avatar Wiki pages?

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    • What made you think Katara is such a boring character?

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    • That makes it sound like I thought she was interesting until something happened to change my mind. I just eventually noticed that I rarely found myself being excited when she was on screen, or craving an episode about her. Probably because I usually felt I knew roughly what she was going to say before she said it. Intrigue comes from the usurping of expectations.

      Iroh has many examples of this. You expect someone of his power to beat the crap out of a mugger, but instead he talks him through his problems. You expect him to be furious at Zhao for trying to kill Zuko, but he manages to keep his cool. But these moments don't become too predictable, because you also have moments like "no, Azula is crazy, & she needs to go down."

      Of course you don't expect Toph to be as powerful as she is, & she often leads the Gaang down situations you wouldn't normally expect them to participate in, like scams, or forcing Aang to stand his ground.

      Sokka comes up with complex plans you wouldn't normally think of, & in terms of fighting skills, he's a largely unknown quantity. We know he can throw boomerangs pretty accurately, but he doesn't actually take down many opponents, & we're never sure exactly how much potential he has.

      There's more to those examples than that, but that's the gist. This is why I also think Aang is pretty boring, though not quite to the same extent as Katara. His main traits are defined pretty early on & don't deviate much: Reluctant hero, goofy kid, surprisingly insightful pacifist.

      It's also why I think Katara is most interesting during the Southern Raiders, since she demonstrates personality traits & actions you never would have expected before.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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  • That guy arrives in a cloud of indignation, starts reeing about how the cultural Marx Brothers or whatever are supposedly Godwinning everyone, and resorts to insults early in the game...but you're the one who's supposedly unprepared for anything resembling a rational debate.  Right.

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    • My personal favorite part was how he admitted he knew absolutely nothing about Spencer & his ties to the alt right movement, but continued trying to lecture me about "The Truth!" undeterred.

      I certainly could have kept going, but I didn't want that thread to blow up like the last one I mentioned fascism in. So if he wants me to respond, it has to be on-topic, or at least related to what I said.

      Though, between you & I, I am damn tired of seeing right-wingers whine about respect & understanding, but only when it comes to them. Never mind that I have been listening to their complaints, & how many times do I have to debunk the same falsehoods, listen to the same conspiracy theories, & hear the same insults before I'm allowed to conclude that there really isn't anything rational there? Except maybe the odd complaint about coal jobs or career politicians that right wing extremist groups either can't or don't want to solve anyway.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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  • The exact quote was "I know nothing about you, but based solely on your posts I have to assume you're a baby eating rapist."  He then went on to accuse me of thinking everyone who disagreed with me was an "antifan" (because let's conveniently forget about him calling me a "baby-eating rapist" for disagreeing with him, ignore the volume of incoherent Katara hate that he's spewed, and pretend that I go around calling, say, Makorra holdouts "antifans" unless they've actively earned it).

    And earlier in the same post, he'd accused me of "self admittedly [having] no idea what [I was] criticizing."  Note that what I'd said was that his Tumblr post was inane, unfunny, and definitely not canon; and that his blog as a whole did not reflect well on his character.  Which had nothing to do with whether or not the gripe that prompted him to excrete that thing (as some sort of half-baked reductio ad absurdum protest against mod rulings) had any validity (and it still didn't).

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    • Now that you've reminded me that comment history can be checked, things make a lot more sense. I hadn't realized just how much had been leading up to this. The reaction just shocked me because frankly the post didn't seem altogether more wrong or offensive than a lot of things I've seen posted to the board, which are generally ignored.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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