Forums: War Room → Too Trivial Trivia

There's apparently this issue about "What constitutes trivia" around here. So, "Trivia" is useful facts, not random observations or irrelevant incidents. "Aang was the first known Avatar to be frozen in an iceberg" while true, is not particularly useful for the page. Thus also are all other so-called trivia points like it. "Aang was the first known Avatar to be bloodbent" is also true, but really, how relevant is it? --Bold Clone 20:49, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that some of our trivia may not exactly be trivia and some of it should be removed, but I noticed that some things that were interesting to note were being removed.  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  20:51, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

I actually think that some of the goofs need be removed, as they are intentional. Away from that, some trivia points may be removed, but there are, as Technology Wizard said, some interesting points as well. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  20:52, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

If you're telling the truth, then why didn't you simply allow me to remove those points, and then take the time to re-add individual points, instead of reverting my whole edit? --Bold Clone 20:54, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

You didn't tell us you intended to do that (remove those points and then take the time to re-add individual points) and those points would still be subject to a single individual's opinion on their validity. We need to have more than one person examine what stays and what goes. Monkeyfeathers94 (wall • contribs) 21:01, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't tell you that I intended to do what, exactly? What are you talking about? --Bold Clone 21:13, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

You mentioned in the thread in your message wall (which for some reason I can only post if I use IE) that you made a similar trivia cleaning in Amon's article. The point is, trivia is exactly the place where you list things that wouldn't otherwise fit anywhere. If you take them from the trivia section, they're no where to be found, and the information is lost. While some of the stuff I can dig back to seem irrelevant (comparing Amon to a Marvel villain), some of it shows interesting connections, for example, the similarity of the red globe in his mask to the rising sun in the Japanese flag, which means the dawn of a new era, what Amon intended to bring. It's the sort of stuff most people don't notice, even if they turn out to be coincidences and not deliberate. I fully intend to dig through those old revisions of Amon's articles to see if there's more valid trivia that got removed under the radar. Like Monkeyfeathers suggested, if more than one person is needed to decide on the noteworthiness of a trivia point, there can always be a group dedicated to that, or if the circumstances call for it, the establishment of a notability standard or trivia policy. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:02, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

If it's just coincidence, then it's just not relevant. That's my whole point. It doesn't matter if Amon reminds you of a movie character, or someone from a book--it's a coincidence! Coincidence is not relevant! I like the idea of Trivia policy, though; if we did something like that, then hopefully we could avoid this in the future. --Bold Clone 21:13, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

The purpose of trivia, as I see it, is to provide 1. additional or background information that the average reader wouldn't automatically know (ex. name translations) or 2. some sort of substantial insight into the character or object, its development, or what the creators had in mind when they designed it that way. Some of what you deleted certainly did not fit this description, but other points were perfectly valid. We can't simply accept a single user's opinion on what is "useless" when making such major changes. Monkeyfeathers94 (wall • contribs) 21:09, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

All right, I'll bite--what was something I deleted that you thought was relevant? And why did you feel like you had to revert my entire edit, rather than just replace the points you thought were important? --Bold Clone 21:13, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

First, readding content is ten times easier and twenty times faster if you undo the edit. If it had mostly removed good trivia, heck yes the entire edit would have been undone. Also, once you make three-four edits that are undone because you are removing good content, you can't expect people to think about every possible thing to do but undo your edit. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  21:19, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

For example, time and time again you deleted translation of character names. And like I said, I agreed with you on the example of Amon reminding someone of a Marvel villain, that was my example on stuff I saw you remove that I agree shouldn't be in the trivia section. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:20, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, translating names is coincidental. We don't have any proof that the creators of the show intentionally picked a name because of it's meaning (like "Azula"=azul=blue, refering to her blue fire). Interesting? Yes. Confirmed? No. And if it's not confirmed, then it doesn't really have a place in Trivia. --Bold Clone 21:28, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Just because it doesn't come directly from their mouths, it doesn't make it any less interesting. It's one of those extra things that you don't notice. Another Amon example you removed: him having a similar hairstyle to Korra in his youth. It makes a parallel between them. If overcrowding the section is what you're worried with, there can always be created a split article for that. We've done it with character's history and relationships, I'm certain it can be done with their trivia as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:33, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Amon had a similar hairstyle as Korra. All right--what makes that relevant? What makes that important? Is it interesting? Yes. Does that make it part of a larger parallel between Amon and Korra? In your mind, yes. But it means nothing to me. --Bold Clone 21:46, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

But as you said yourself, it is an interesting (to me curious) trivia point. So it is listed there. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  22:08, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Interesting? Yes. Anything more than a coincident? No, unless we get confirmation. A trivia should have just the facts, not observations. --Bold Clone 15:10, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

The big question is: who or what defines "relevant"? I've seen and removed plenty of trivial trivia myself, most recently on Gommu's page: "Gommu shows some resemblance to Dock/Xu/Bushi from Avatar: The Last Airbender." Really? How is that important and/or relevant? However, I'm sure someone will find it so, which is why it was added in the first place. A line must be drawn between trivia and trivial, otherwise we'll have people adding stuff like "He has dark brown hair like Sokka". ― Thailog 23:00, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

All right, I'll take that example: Noatak has a hairstyle similar to Korra's. One thing we have to remember when making observations about stylistic choices is that the creators made that choice on purpose. Out of all the hair designs they could have chosen for Amon, they picked one that was far closer to Korra's than to Yakone's or Tarrlok's. I don't know why they did that; perhaps it was a coincidence. BUT, we don't know that it wasn't intentional and in any case, it is significant to list that similarity. The purpose of trivia is to list things that are interesting (although your opinion may vary on specific points) and that give insight into the minds of the creators. Much of this stuff they did for a reason, even if we don't know what that reason was. Sometimes we find out that reason; just take the trivia on Rohan's name as an example. Anyways, the stuff that is listed in trivia rarely has any place in the rest of the article, but that doesn't mean it's not important. Monkeyfeathers94 (wall • contribs) 00:11, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I agree; we need a line between trivia and trivial. But the problem with that is that everyone is going to have a slightly different opinion on the difference between the two. My opinion is apparently a lot more strict than others. Case in point: the observation that Korra has the hair style as Amon when he was younger is trivial to me--it is a worthless, irrelevant fact. We have no prove it was intentional or that the writers meant something more behind it, regardless of what anyone else thinks or speculates. If a trivia policy is made, it's going to have to be a very general set of rules. --Bold Clone 15:10, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I also think that Noatak's hairstyle being similar to that of Sokka is irrelevant unless we can prove it was intentional. Both of them were from the Water Tribes; maybe that hair style wasn't that uncommon. Remember that Sokka was the only boy of his age in his tribe. Drawing a parallel between characters based on likeness is trite unless we know there was a conscious intention behind it. Otherwise we are extrapolating correlations where there may be none. ― Thailog 16:55, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I have no problem with the trivia amount we have. And if it become's too much we can create a trivia page to place it. It's less clutter on the main page of a character and helps tidy it up a bit. That's my opinion though. 00:01, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Just look at the Aang page; that trivia is FAR too much. We need to clean that up. We don't need a seperate trivia page (a rediculous idea), we just need to do a trivia clean-up. --Bold Clone 15:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion, trivia would be information about the character that a viewer wouldn't have known before looking at the wiki. Not "she is the only known character to bend blue fire." so anything falling under that category is trivia.Iceland77 02:03, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed; anything like that is crap, and we should get rid of it. But that's exactly what I've been doing, and people don't approve of it, apparantly. --Bold Clone 15:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't see any problems with trivia. Pretty much every point I see has something interesting or important. I also delete bad trivia when necessary so it never gets out of control. Lemongrab 03:12, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

...*snort* And what's "bad trivia," exactly? To me, it's anything coincidental, speculatory, irrelevant, unimportant, or unconfirmed. But people are going to have different opinions about that. --Bold Clone 15:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Bad trivia as in, information that was already stated earlier on the character's page. Just that alone makes a lot of trivia open for deletion. Still, there is plenty of trivia that has good, interesting information. I still do not see why this is such a big problem. Lemongrab 20:31, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Because there is plenty of interesting imformation that is irrelevant, unimportant, and overall useless to the page. On the Aang page for example, there's a trivia point that discusses how the iceberg that Aang was originally in is similar to the psychological theory of the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious. Interesting? Yeah...I guess. Is it relevent to the character, or anything more then a speculatory observation from a fan? No. "Trivia" like that does not belong on the page. --Bold Clone 01:36, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Bold Clone, trivia doesn't contribute to character pages like other sections do. Information in trivia really cannot be put anywhere else. It does help the page, just in a different way. I think your being a little close minded on this "issue". I still do not see why this is such a big problem. Lemongrab 04:08, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Why shouldn't it be a problem? I'm trying to clean up the wiki! Information in trivia sometimes can fit in other places, like "Aang was the first known person to restore another's bending." That belongs in his "Powers and Abilities" section. And a lot of "trivia" just doesn't belong on the page because it's just not relevant. It it not relevant or important that Aang was the first known Avatar to be bloodbent, or the first known person to break free from bloodbending without waterbending. I'm trying to clear out crap like that. --Bold Clone 00:27, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Bold Clone the wiki is clean. What you are trying to do is bleach it until there is no color left. I don't see any major problems in the trivia section. Koh Koh the Face Stealer 00:33, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

The trivia section is FAR too long! Surely you can see that! That's what I'm trying to do--shorten the obnoxiously long "Trivia" by removing the redundant and speculatory material. --Bold Clone 00:46, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Most of the "crap" your removing really belongs there. I do not know how I can explain this to you. You can't just remove large amounts of trivia without the community deciding on it. Lemongrab 01:00, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

But can just rewrite it instead of removing stuff in the Trivia section will just solve problems and also, will a Scroll Box might help if the trivia is too long also?-- King Marth 64 (talk • other wikis • blogs) 01:06, July 13, 2012 (UTC)