Forums: War Room → New Users and the IRC

I think that with the message wall policy being more strictly enforced now, that we should re-enable Chat. Now, I know some of you think I'm crazy, but the IRC is kind of hard to navigate and figure out how to use at first. New users would probably have a much easier time using Special:Chat. Think about it, your username is already there, you're logged in already, it's a one-click system. SixMoodyDwarves Ask Voltorb's Instincts! 22:06, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really think this is a great idea; there should be just one, centralized chat room on the wiki. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making a chat as easy for new users to access as possible, but with the recent tension on the wiki I don't think it is a good idea to have one chat which is predominantly used by newer users and another that is used by older users. This will create an obvious division between contributors on the wiki, and it will reduce communication among us all. Annawantimes (Talk) 22:14, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

Can someone explain what Special:chat is and explain how it works? ThebigOfan 23:26, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

Special:Chat is a feature which can be found on Community Central, as well as many other wikis across wikia. More information can be found at Help:Chat. SixMoodyDwarves Ask Voltorb's Instincts! 02:42, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, I support the proposal then. ThebigOfan 02:48, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I strongly oppose this forum. Your source is somewhat biased as it comes from wikia where the chat was created. I'll borrow Jackiie's argument from the last time this was proposed.

Jackiie:

• IRC is rather easy to use once you get the hang of it. There is only around 6 things a very basic user would need to know (these being /nick, /me, /msg, /query, /join, /quit) and anything over that, basic users don't need to know. Anything else you learn once you become more experienced on IRC and venture into other channels. Some users I know are only in #wikia-avatar, when I'm in 17 and are sometimes on more than 1 network and opped in others. I am sometimes the one telling the ops in #wikia-avatar how to do the commands because I am an advanced user and have been on IRC for around 2 or more years. If you don't experience it, you can't learn how it works or how to use it. I am writing a guide what will be linked from the IRC access page for any inexperienced users.

• Some users, like myself won't want to move to the other chat because they are already using the current existing one. I have been part of projects what started on freenode but changed to a different network and some users left it because there is no point in making a new connection/new nick registration for 1 channel.

• Some users don't have powerful computers. I am able to run mIRC (my IRC client) and run RAM heavy applications (like games) at the same time, but I am not able to run Firefox and RAM heavy applications together causing one or both of them to crash. If the chat was brought back, I would not be able to access it while doing more than one thing.

• Some users connect to IRC through other methods. Using myself as an example, I sometimes connect to IRC from my mobile device and I am able to chat in #wikia-avatar but if it was not IRC, I would have to connect to the web, login to wikia and navigate to the chat which would be a pain when I have an app to connect me directly.

• With 15 mins experience with the Special:Chat, it is awfully featureless, buggy, laggy and a privacy concern.
  • While testing it out on a different wiki, the person I was chatting with was in the chat, but not in the userlist.
  • Messages sent would often take several minutes to appear with others not appearing at all
  • Was not possible to emote (that is doing /me on IRC to make " * Jackiie yawned").
  • There are no options for highlights (that is, saying someones name to get their attention (also called pinging)).
  • No ignore feature.
  • Not possible to be in more than one chat in the same window.
  • I am told that private messages are possible, but not through /msg or /query, only by left clicking on a users name (see point 1).
  • There is no information about whether Wikia logs the chat, or private messages and if it does, what it does with them and how long they are kept for.
  • It is not possible to change your nickname. Role-playing is a common thing in #wikia-avatar and sometimes nicks are changed to go with this.

• It prevents anyone outside of Wikia from joining. I have been a regular user in #wikia-avatar since June last year but have only been on wikia for a few months and I don't login all that often to Wikia. I have seen a number of users in #wikia-avatar who are not on Wikia at all.

• It was mentioned above about customisation. From using Special:Chat for a demo on another wiki, it was not possible to change any way on how it looks where it is possible on the webchat (what this wiki uses to connect to IRC) to some degree and even more on an actual client.

So per those reasons I oppose the creation of this chat, and it's really easy for any user to adjust to the IRC, I've seen it happen before and experienced it myself, plus I don't like the idea of having divided chatrooms for users. Truly Ferret 03:01, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

First off, your information is from a dated source. Secondly, the Chat feature from Wikia is much more efficient and less buggy than it was before. There is also wikitext you can insert into your global.js which will add certain features to the chat un-acessable before. It is from my point of view that chat is an easier, more efficient way of chatting which is comparable to message walls, which now can't be used for socialization. SixMoodyDwarves Ask Voltorb's Instincts! 03:10, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I strongly oppose, per ATFF. Even with the bugs fixed, I don't think chat is a suitable replacement for IRC. --AvatarRokus Ghost (Message me • Read my fanon) 03:20, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Wow; ATFF very very nicely summed up a great deal of points. In a very easy to read way! Nicely done. I also strongly oppose this. Vulmen (talk • EoK) 03:22, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Per the argument posted by ATFF above. Oppose. PSUAvatar14 Want to have a word? 03:24, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Vulmen, I can't take credit, Jackiie wrote it out. Truly Ferret 03:27, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

ATFF (Jackiie) makes some great points there. ^^" And Andrew, I can tell you from experience that Wikia chat is definitely not bug-free. I was using it just yesterday and I was disconnected twice and my messages would not get through several times. IRC isn't perfect, but it functions better than Wikia's chat. Annawantimes (Talk) 03:28, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose, per opposers. ― Thailog 11:39, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose, per Thailog. KettleMeetPot • wall 13:19, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose, per KMP. BlackMonkey ^{Talk - Rhythm} 01:35, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose per A True Fire Ferret with help form Jackiie. WEFAang (wall • contribs) 00:34, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose per all. Acer Indonesia Ask anything about fanon! • 03:50, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

I find IRC very confusing, I have seen Special:Chat on other wikis and it's very easy to use. Is it possible to have both IRC and Special: chat on the Wiki?ThebigOfan 18:10, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

This is Andrew2070, editing from a sub-account while my username is being changed. Yes, my point exactly. The IRC is confusing for new users. Can we at least try turning it on for a week? TheFirstAvatard (wall • contribs) with SixMoodyDwarves Ask Voltorb's Instincts!

No. This has been done in the past, and "trial runs" have already ended in the decision to turn it back off. No 'test' is necessary, and only lengthens the process toward having to turn it back off yet again. Vulmen (talk • EoK) 02:02, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Since my question was never answered I'll ask again. Is it possible to have IRC both Special: chat on the Wiki?ThebigOfan 20:06, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Yes it is. Truly Ferret 20:09, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for answering my question .ThebigOfan 20:11, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Why don't we have both IRC and Special:chat on the wiki, I think that would be a great idea.ThebigOfan 20:17, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Please read above. This was already asked and responded to, that not having both would be the better route. Annawan's very initial reply addressed concern over this. Vulmen (talk • EoK) 21:53, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

All I have to say is that I find IRC very confusing and I prefer Special:chat because it's easier to use. And it's not possible to have a 3 way message between only 3 users unlike Chat.ThebigOfan 22:13, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry Voltorb, but I too must oppose this forum. I disagree. I was just on the IRC yesterday for the first real time and I found it simple to use after about ten minutes. I got the hang of it quickly. WaterbenderTaikai 01:05, August 22, 2012 (UTC)