Forums: War Room → Masami break-up scene in episode 11

I can't believe I have to actually do this, but I am concerned (e.g., here and here) that some viewers did not recognize the Masami break-up scene in episode 11. Fortunately, I am not the only who noticed this.

• Mako: "Asami, I'm sorry things got so messed up between us. But whatever happens today, I want you to know how much I care about you."
• Asami: "I care about you too."

Read between the lines, amigos. I realize that it is subtle and "you know, it is very unclear" like Jet's death, but we need to have some kind of agreement with this so we can be consistent with our edits on the Korra pages. Yes, Mako messed up. He fought against his feelings Korra. He thought it was a "safer choice" to be with Asami and made him more "in control". Asami didn't seem too upset about the break-up, and to her credit, was real mature about it. Mako should have followed his heart in the beginning but to be fair, he's not the only one who chose to do what "made more sense" than "what his heart tells him". I wished Bryke made it more clear, especially to the younger audience, but I thought it was better than the over-used "it's not you, it's me" dialogue.

We need to screenshot that break-up scene with Mako and Asami on relevant pages. So, GIF that and put it on your tumblr. — Hasdi Bravo • 17:47, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure youve never been in a substantial relationship if you believe thats the end of a relationship... im not trying to be rude, but that would never happen in real life. especially with asami who was pretty angry at his whole adoration towards korra. she would want an explanation, and wouldnt just drop it that way. plus i doubt itd be clear to the other if one of them thought that was breaking up. no, no way. Rydersilver (wall • contribs) 18:51, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

^Yep, I was afraid of that. The audience recognized a similar break-up scene with Samantha Jones and the basketball player in Sex in the City though. Then again, Carrie Bradshaw narration helped. Oh, well. — Hasdi Bravo • 19:02, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Hasdi; that's pretty strong to assume that only children would mis-read that little detail. I'm 28, divorced, and I can tell you for a fact that what Mako/Asami last did was ambiguous. Sure; it could be construed as a breakup, but the thing is - it wasn't clear. There wasn't a goodbye, there wasn't anything. It was just "No matter what happens I care for you" - and given a vast audience with many differences, differing opinions can all come from it. It is not clear.

I said something similar to my ex when we parted ways. But I most certainly did not only say that, or that'd be very unclear. Vulmen (talk • EoK) 19:07, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Nothing about either Masami or Makorra would happen in real life, they're both empty ships so it all does not matter.

Regardless, what is the point of this forum? What's the suggestion? Lady Lostris (talk • HotN) 19:07, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

The point is how to edit the events among Mako, Asami and Korra, depending on how editors interpret the scene. For example, I wanted to edit in Asami's page that she and Mako ended in relationship in good terms and cite that episode. I don't have the answer to this, and I don't want to get involve in an edit war. — Hasdi Bravo • 19:38, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

It can't be done, unless it honestly can be sourced that it is indeed from the creators/Nick. Otherwise, "editor interpretation" is simply fan speculation. And fans could take it to mean that Mako is telling her "if he dies, just know he cared for her." As well. Vulmen (talk • EoK) 19:40, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, yeah. I did not see that line as a breakupline either. Lady Lostris (talk • HotN) 19:46, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ack. I hate it when that happens. I interpret it as a break-up because used the word "care" instead of "love". As in, "I care about you, Asami. But I am in love with Korra." So much for "show don't tell." Maybe it is best if I stay away from editing their pages for a while, and let other editors duke it out. Anybody care to ask for confirmation from Bryke on tumblr? Adios, amigos! — Hasdi Bravo • 19:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

not only that, but if it was a convincing break up, its still speculation and we cant have that. Rydersilver (wall • contribs) 20:46, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect ryder. I think this thread has seen through to its end as is. Vulmen (talk • EoK) 20:47, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

what do you mean? youre saying it wouldnt be speculation? i didnt see his bye though. Rydersilver (wall • contribs) 20:59, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

I encouraged your hypothetical situation with a reply is all. Vulmen (talk • EoK) 21:01, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

A lot of fans are accepting this as their breakup, and so am I. Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Help)} 12:06, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Confirmation from Bill Rinaldi and others

Yep. I have been monitoring the twitter and tumblr feeds, e.g., this. The break-up scene was unfortunately too subtle, even for a 33 year-old buddy of mine. Check out the podcast (via KorraNation). Bill Rinaldi (Martial arts videographer for TLoK) also confirmed this on nick forums and replied to a query from a fan:

"Since it was kind-of unclear since we never heard the words “We’re breaking up” or anything like that, I asked Bill if Mako and Asami telling each other that they cared about each other and Asami’s sad kiss on Mako’s cheek during episode 10 11 was the actual Masami breakup. This was his answer:"

I believe it's called the "kiss cheek break up". You know, when Knives Chau gave Scott Pilgrim the kiss on the cheek and told him "I care about you too, but you need to be with Ramona" in the end? Maybe that's why Ramona is featured in Bryan's tumblr? It sucks that Bryke made the scene too subtle -- this is the Nick channel, not TNT or the CW! What kind of example are you setting to kids that you can express your love to another girl before breaking it off with your current one? This tumblr post sums it up for me:

And no, I don't claim to be a relationship guru. Have you seen what happens to Johnny Bravo in every episode? — Hasdi Bravo • 13:16, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Mako telling Korra he loves her, and kissing her is pretty much the breakup scene for me. Again, it's not just little kids who would miss that. I have aspergers, and it went completely over my head. my 'editor interpretation', would be that Masami have not broken up yet. Judging by what we did see, it's entirely possible that Asami has no idea what happened between the two of them. Instead of a "break-up scene", why not a "Makorra scene", when Mako tells Korra he loves her? Fruipit (wall • contribs) 22:55, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

It won't work. Mako can't pursue Korra until he breaks it off with Asami. Before that Masami break-up scene, they were just "on a break". Rachel Green would agree with me. The break-up scene is also an important character development for Asami. She could have held Mako hostage to her guilt trip and make him hate himself for falling for Korra. But she did the selfless thing by ending the relationship so Mako can follow his heart. It also shows that when she turned against her father, she didn't to it for Mako's sake but for herself. It would be too easy for her to let her hurt feelings change her principles, hence siding with her father and the Equalists, but she did not. I am so.. proud of my girl. Now, Asami... I hear that General Iroh is single and available so... — Hasdi Bravo • 02:24, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

who is bill rinaldi? Rydersilver (wall • contribs) 07:50, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Bill Rinaldi is martial arts coordinator, videographer, production coordinator, and Doorman for The Legend of Korra. He is also the Captain of USS Dakorra. He has a tumblr @ http://bill-rinaldi.tumblr.com/ — Hasdi Bravo • 11:42, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

well, do we take his word as valid as the creators? even they are wrong "amon is not a bender" though i see why he lied. (actually i thought he might be tarrloks brother, but nevermind that. Rydersilver (wall • contribs) 20:56, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well, we're been citing Bill Rinaldi for tid bits that slip through the cracks like the gender for the council page. Bryan follows Bill too and reblogs him a few times like this, so if Bill post some misinformation, Bryan would know about it and can correct him. Bill also helped Bryan to work his tumblr like this. — Hasdi Bravo • 22:21, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

To be perfectly fair as someone who saw this as a break up, it's not that it was totally implausible. The problem and why it's hard for some to see it as a break up is due the pretty tense moments leading up to it. To clarify, here's what lead to the break up:

1. Asami finding out that Korra has feelings for Mako.
2. Asami finding out that Korra and Mako shared a kiss.
3. Asami coping with Mako focusing on his attention to Korra.
4. Asami confronting Mako on the matter and the lack of honestly from him.
5. Mako pretty much dodging the issue until the break up.

As such, it just seems odd that Bryke would pile on the drama between the two only to end it with a simple "I care about you (too)." This probably would have worked better if Mako took this course of action in episode 10 (Mainly because having it happen sooner means that the dramatic build up wouldn't have been so big in comparison to the canon). Antiyonder (wall • contribs) 23:32, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that even if everyone say that this was a breaup it seems that decided that would be in direct vioalation of the wiki's no-speculation policy.

Personally I didn't think there was enough proof to able to assume a break up.

And as to this "read between the lines", argument, yea no. I thinks it clear that they broke up. It's not clear if they had a breakup. Koh Koh the Face Stealer 01:52, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

@Koh, I think you missed confirmation from Bill Rinaldi and others so I made that a new section. @Antiyonder, I think Bryke had the break-up done in episode 11 to show that Mako still could not accept his strong feelings for Korra until she decided to throw herself into very dangerous situation by facing Amon by herself. I would have made the break-up scene a bit longer, e.g., "I care about you too, Mako. But you need to follow heart. It wouldn't be fair to either of us for me to stand in the way." but that is probably too expository, have fans cry fowl with the corniness, "show don't tell", etc, etc. — Hasdi Bravo • 02:51, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I think there's 2 issues that need addressed here. (1) Whether or not that scene was a breakup & (2) whether or not they broke up. 2 is easy. Mako is with Korra now. That means they broke up. 1 is "not clear," as a lot of people have said, but what they're missing is that, & ignore the fact that this is a TV show for a second, a break-up only has to be clear to the people breaking up. The context is pretty clear that both feel it's over. Consequently, it's a break-up.Neo Bahamut (wall • contribs) 00:15, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Like I said above, it's entirely possible that Asami has no idea what happened between the two of them. Neo, I understand what logic you're using. There are two different issues.
1) Was that scene a break up? and
2) DID they break up?

Like you stated above, we know that Korra and Mako are together, but that doesn't mean that Mako and Asami have broken up. Have you ever heard of "cheating"? Not that that's what I think Mako is doing. What I think happened, how I interpreted it, was Mako was still unsure of himself when he told Asami how much he cared about her. He didn't want to say "love", but neither did he want to tell her his feelings for Korra. We haven't seen Asami's reaction, and I think we need it. So, I disagree with your logic. They didn't break up and that wasn't a break up scene Fruipit (wall • contribs) 06:30, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

I was assuming there were 2 premises that were so basic that they were pretty much unspoken. (1) Korra and Mako were obviously together after the finale's events & (2) they would not depict cheating on a Nickelodeon show. Both of these would mean that there was a break-up, & Asami was very much aware of it. Though, to be fair, I don't remember exactly how explicit the Makorra relationship was to the other characters at the end of the show.

As for the scene itself, I just don't know how to argue that it couldn't be a break-up. We have them both say they "care for each other," Mako going off to be with another girl for the main event, & Asami kissing him on the cheek. On their own, they're all circumstantial, but altogether, it's rather...impersonal for a romantic confession in the heat of the moment.Neo Bahamut (wall • contribs) 06:43, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Hasdi: I see what you're saying, but I still say they were going for drama and expecting the audience to be satisfied with a proverbial slap on the wrist resolution. Not that Mako's actions were the worse thing a person is done, but it's not something to wrap up with "I care about you, I care about you too".

Heck, when Mako confesses his feelings for Korra, he mentions coming to this conclusion after her capture by Tarrlok. Hence, the delaying of the break up really does come off as increasing the tension.

As such, the break up should have occured in Turning the Tides with Mako owning up, even debating on whether he should pursue his feelings when it wouldn't be fair to Asami. And like I said before, doing the break up here lessens the tension build up and makes the break up feel more servicable as a result.

Now as for Skeletons in the Closet, with the break up happening in episode 10, a new scene could be implimented with Korra stating her intent to go after Amon by herself as she did in the canon version. With a follow up scene where Asami suggests to Mako that he goes with Korra.

While it's not perfect, it keeps from heavily deviating from the canon and makes it more plausible that Mako and Asami did part on good terms. Antiyonder (wall • contribs) 21:50, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Of course Bryke was going for drama, but I doubt having the break-up done in episode 10 will work either. I would be even more of a "proverbial slap on the wrist resolution" and have fans complaining the characters of being "too flawless."

• Asami: I've noticed how you treat Korra. How you acted when she was missing. [Drops dish in the sink and turns to face him.] You have feelings for her, don't you?
• Mako:[Defensively.] What?! No! She was taken by a crazy bloodbender! How did you expect me to act?
• Asami: I like Korra. But you've been keeping the truth from me this whole time.
• Mako: The truth? About what?
• Asami: You're really going to make me say it?
• Mako: Yes! Because I don't know what you're talking about!
• Asami: The kiss, Mako. I know.
• Mako: I- Wha- [Sighs.] Bolin told you, didn't he?!
• Asami: Don't blame your brother for what you did. Do you have feelings for Korra or not?
• --- cue alternate dialogue ---
• Mako: I- think you're right, Asami. I'm sorry. I thought Korra and I could just be friends. Maybe I should keep my distance from her...
• Asami: No, Mako. I care about you more than anything, but you are not being fair to me and Korra if we continue this relationship.
• Mako: Wha- what are you saying?
• Asami: Maybe we should take a break, until you figure things out.
• Mako: ...

Anywho, this forum isn't really about what Bryke should have done, but whether or not the break-up occured in episode 11. Another editor interpretation is that, during the 3 days they were hiding with Gommu, Asami already broke up with Mako (as evidenced with her "Whatever!", which could be interpreted as "not that we are together anyway") so the kiss cheek scene is simply to signify an end of her animosity towards Mako. Either way, Mako was not cheating on Asami when he told Korra that he loved her. My 2 cents. — Hasdi Bravo • 17:33, July 2, 2012 (UTC)