Forums: War Room → Family Tree Issues...

I know this isn't really a major issue, but I feel it's worth mention. A policy we often turn to nowadays is the "no speculation" policy. And, while common sense is emphasized, if there's reasonable doubt that something did/didn't happen, then it's considered speculation. On our family trees, we have a few problems relating to some "marriage" assumptions in the family trees. For example, we have our first problem in Rohan's, Ikki's, Tenzin's, Aang's, etc. family tree. This family tree assumes that Aang's parents were, in fact, married. However, we've never even heard their names, who they were; in fact, we're not even positive that Aang knew them. We have literally no information about them, and yet we assume they were married. This is the first problem.

Second: Sozin#Relatives. Perhaps this case uses a little more "common sense". We assume, here, that Sozin was a married man and, as far as I know, we have no proof of this. However, it is a logical assumption to make, as the Fire Lord having a child out of wedlock doesn't exactly seem like it'd fly in the Avatar world. This can also be said for Zuko, where again we're unsure if he married, and his daughter; we know she had Iroh, but not if she married anybody. The same is true with Iroh; we're assuming he was married to Lu Ten's mother, when there's again no proof. Finally, there's Ursa, who we speculate was the child of two married parents.

My third problem is with Toph's family tree. We assume she was married to Lin's father, which has the least basis; Lin carried on the Beifong family name. Wouldn't Toph have taken her husband's name, if she had one, and then given it to Lin? Because of this, it is actually evidenced that Toph was not married.

So...yeah. Now debate amongst yourselves.  :PIf your doctor is sick, then who is healing you? Read. It's good for you. 04:43, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. Some of the assumptions of marriages are downright flimsy in how they would hold up when considering character values and customs in the Avatar world, as well as the IRL. Most of these marriage links are speculation, and if we are going to go by that with these family trees, it needs to be changed in order to adhere to common sense and from what we can extrapolate about culture in this universe. Like Azula said, You do NOT have to be married to have a child, so it's silly to assume that all of those were produced from marriages. KettleMeetPot (wall • contribs) 04:58, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think we could presume that Sozin was married, as it would have been, in his time, quite disgraceful to have a child without being married. However, with Toph and Lin Beifong's tree, we cannot, as they live in a different, more liberal age. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  05:07, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

It's still possible for Toph to have married and have kept her name. I believe that if either wife's family is more prestigious than that of the husband, especially if there are no male heirs to carry the name, the male marries into the family and takes the wife's name instead. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:34, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

@Omnibender: I think you're forgetting that most people in the Avatar world don't have a last name; thus, if only the mother has a last name, the daughter would presumably get it. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  15:32, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

@Omnibender: It's not without historical precedent for a husband to take his wife's name, as you reference. Just as an example Goto Keita, one of the inspirations for Hiroshi Sato's character, was in fact born Kobayashi Keita but adopted his wife's surname (Goto) upon marriage. And if Toph's husband didn't have a last name, it's only logical the child would get hers.

@Kettle: I'm not quite sure what you mean about assumptions of marriage being flimsy considering character values, etc. There hasn't been any indication that there's a spate of illegitimate children running around in the Avatar world. None of the families we've seen have ever been implied to be anything but married. And illegitimacy has historically carried a huge stigma (though that seems to be lessening somewhat lately), especially in Asia, so I don't think it's likely it would be common in the Avatar world. Furthermore, from a common-sense standpoint, I doubt that the creators would put a somewhat controversial topic like cohabitation front-and-center in their series. (And when did Azula say that you don't have to be married to have children?) telane (wall • contribs) 04:09, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

By "Azula", I think Kettle was referring to the creator of this thread. GhostUser (wall • contribs) 04:15, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I feel kind of stupid for missing that now. (I didn't bother clicking on their signature to figure out what their username was...) telane (wall • contribs) 04:21, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

The only way that I can think of to fix this issue if the community has a problem with it, is to get rid of the "married" sign altogether on all family trees. Then, we could put the status of their marriage on each individual article to avoid "speculating". Making signs for "possibly married" or "unmarried" is just silly. It's either we keep the sign or we don't. GhostUser (wall • contribs) 03:22, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with GhostUser. As the only "speculative" one I would throw up for challenge is Aang's parents. The rest, I bet'cha anything marriage was involved. Seriously, I wholeheartedly doubt they would showcase nonmarried couples having children (aside from the possible Aang's parents; the culture conveniently "wiped out") Vulmen (talk • EoK) 03:53, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Conveniently "wiped out"? How diabolical! But I agree with this in any case. KettleMeetPot (wall • contribs) 04:04, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

My previous post aside, I could also see the Air Nomads having some unusual form of marriage/child-rearing in order to facilitate "detachment" or some similar thing. But that's the only exception, and the simple fact remains we have no idea how these things worked in their culture. telane (wall • contribs) 04:14, July 4, 2012 (UTC)